OCR Text |
Show r"btL l.J Fl'Lr'_ I ) ~~ulC t, .~pll i L \1' [il .l3-i:> .- --~-: -('1- -T'--f" --\- ...' _:~ ._f T_ T._f- r TnT ~_ C HrrlrLr ,_;,. ~ t 10(. ·-lunch r J SC;"'. l'l.'.C«(~d.L(!. rl.(,~'ilC tini!; scL~Jul(:.. :lin~ t.) "~l "choul "iJCI..hL ( linle ,, - . .: . l.view 7 ,. c 15 1 19 19 15 • :iJ, 24, £J 1.5.1./\. ri' ,.'·I.~Jl UJ,llling: ":ew'll:tt(,f finut(,· ·','J£.tl'l rectiJicdtiorl P011c" T .s. \. Corr.ruitLc; 'Lalrman deadline Ihmdll.Jtr ,.tL:m TJ,~,iUrt deadline rbi ci-;Gol tirEoctol' follQ\o,i-up Ilfnc rOllU'..itte' l(tt,,,_~ tv "1 . .i,. c. }l 'J.LL t lTInittee !llot, etc • .i t.. ~ \I,~ .... ; .1.11., t ), ';'.1.1 ttC( I" ,.;.(>t10 .. : I ........ , • • • • J . icctions T 1:.(J' ... -€1. tlJU t:"llr,~ (~) ,n h .. '. 11 f.'l, 11 i ,),t., : . 1 iu l~ anr~c /J1H .• el.!E- :-~ t ... -IJ J vt. 1 ~n! ~ue t __ totlLet .• ent J)a11ot--rlbl~ pr~-re>li'tr"tL New: 1 ttet Clinic Connnittee Heeting nL;(!," ar'i: iqll-:-Jt (l.LnlC ri2C;litr ~tlon deadllut.: ~i-rin[': r,llnic ~--=-. ..,' I N T E R M 0 U N T A I N SKI INS T R U C TOR 5 ASS 0 C I A T ION COHMITTEE POLICY ORGANIZATION: ItEach committee will consist of at least three members of the corporation, at least one of whom shall be either an Officer or a member of the Board."--By Laws, Section IV Each committee will have a Chairman and Assistant Chairman. The Chairman will delegate responsibility to his Assistant at his discretion, and the Assistant in the absence of the Chairman will conduct the business meetings of the committee. The committees of the Association which require continuity--Certification, Technical, Clinic, and Demonstration Team--the Assistant Chairman would serve as an apprentice or Itin training" for the chairmanship at the time the Chairman retires. PURPOSE, FUNCTION, AND ACTIVITIES: MEETINGS: Each Committee Chairman with the assistance of the President will outline the committee's purpose, function, and activities in writing. This outline will serve as the Committee Policy and will be submitted to the Board of Directors for approval and adoption. Each committee 'will meet regularly at appropriate times to consider business and determine its activities. Each Committee Chairman will be responsible for recording the minutes of each meeting, delivery to the Executive Secretary, and distribution to the appropriate parties. COMMUNICATION: S'QA-~ (~-frL Minutes of committee meetings must be submitted to the Executive Secretary within 10 days of a meeting. The Executive Secretary will transcribe and distribute the minutes within 15 days of the meeting. The minutes will be distributed as follows: 7J'-.~ ~~~-4; 1. Board of Directors and Officers 2 2. Ski School Directors 3. Committee Chairman The Comrnittee Chairman will also be responsible for reporting the activities of his committee to the Newsletter Editor. This information would be in the form of an article for publication in the Newsletter. Each Chairman will be required to submit the activities of his committee each time the Newsletter is published. ANNOUNCEMENTS: BUDGET: Any announcements to the general membership from the committees which requires a "general mailing" will be submitted by the Committee Chairman to the Secretary. The Secretary will be responsible for all annou ~ to the ener mbership. The ommittee Chairman, Secretary, and President will determine if a mailing is required and the date and content, etc. At the beginning of each fiscal year, the Committee Chairman will be reqUired to submit a budget request to the Budget Committee Chairman. Accurate records should be maintained of expenses of the committee, and once a budget for a particular committee is set, it will be the Chairman's responsibility to attempt to live within the budget. ANNUAL MEETING: At the Association's Annual Meeting, the Committee Chairman will be reqUired to submit in writing and give orally to those in attendance his "Committee Report." This report should outline the activities of the committee the past year and any recommendation for change, improvement, etc. in the committee. FRIDAY, MAYI5, 9:30 PM COMMITTEE MEETING: Those in attendance were: Lash, W. Taylor, Johnston, Pfieffer, Sparks, Bounous and Engle. Lash Called the meeting to order at 9:30 PM. LASH: The main purpose of this meeting is to discuss the expansion of 111.0 NSA teachers committee administration and make recommendations as to how to administer and finance the committee. We are faced first with budget. Far WC$st, Southern Rocky and lSA have brought up an idea which has merit, the formation of a National Instructors Association to function as this committee. However, it is very impractical to form a national instructors association at this time because of the administration. The only feasable way it can be done is through the NSA office at the preset1t time. It is a fact that the instructors would like to have their own association and break with the NSA but 'we aren't strong enough financially. SPARKS: This is a growing pain. The group ce rtainly shou J,j become SIt ron.g enough to reach the stage of being self supporting professional organi7.ation. To me it is a financial impossibility right now but it may be closer that we realize. LASH: To bring us up to date, there are four divisions that havo their own instructors association apart from the division. SPARKS: That is the instructors fault, and if they form their own organization they may still have the same trouble. LASH: The PNSA instructors have decieded to break with the division to allow better income possibilities. The instructors have no money. SPARKS: Someone must have loused up the deal. They shouldn't be broke. LASH: They. had 10 or 15 examinations and 50-60 people going through it. PFIEFFER: It's to bad we don't have anybody here to fill us in. LASH: That's indicative of something. I have been in a lot of correspondence with them. I told them they should have a representative here. Nobody came. They wired "Impossib' to come. Letter will follow". SPARKS: That reflects back on the President of PNSA. LASH: Durant told me on the phone that the situation has not been good. PFIEFFER: Let's get back to the subject. LASH: We have to present a budget to National, since we cannot operate on our own. ENGEL: What do we need money for? LASH: Administration. PFIEFFER: Can we list the things we need. SPARKS: Administration is how much? LASH: Warren. will have to help us with this. We should pay our own way. For mailing out this, for example ( 800-900 people). This will involve quite a bit of money. The NSA should not pay for it but the instructors. TAYLOR: We have everything but a method of efficiently addressing envelopes for this group. SPARKS: Say I put in for 200 copies and had the Eastern office distribute them. ENGEL: The main point right now is we do not have an active mailing list of all ski instructors. LASH: We had one as of last fall but it is not up to date. TAYLOR: We could keep it up to date if you would send me the changes. SPARKS: We only change once a year, in the spring. We put out an up to date list at rally. LASH: I certainly appreciate the problem that the NSA has. They have a shortage of funds. SPARKS: We should be self supporting. Committee Meeting- 2. TAYLOR: We feel we should give as much as we can. SPARKS: But if you have to increase your secretarial staff, we should puy. TAYLOR: Yes, also if you do 9ive out this is the way to move out gradually. PFIEFFER: Let's figure it rougliy . 2¢ for mailing 1000, $20. Four bulletins a year. Paper cost of 12000 sheets at $ 1. 65 ream. TAYLOR: Say we have a fresh list in June or July and we have addres:s:>graph plates made. At 900 names it would be $ 15 or $20. SPARKS: Dissemination of information will cost $500. LASH: There would not be to many disseminations to everybody. When we have a big mailmg for a manufacturer like the Hart ski list. TAYLOR: That mailing gave us a copy of the names. It cost about $35. SPARKS. What were the administration costs this year? LASH: A lot of it was done with no cost records and with voluntary help. SPARKS: I disagree with the idea of using volunteer help. A business approach is better tn the end. How much is roughly left? LASH: Doug gave me $50 tonight which leaves $230. less Carol's fee and a phone bill. Say $150. left. SPARKS: Another thing which must come in right now is advertising on the national level. Perhaps an ad in Hasting's Ski Magazine. PFIEFFER: It runs around $600 for one time. Then there is a repeat insertion rute which drops 10% the second time and if we work through an agency there is a 15% discount. This is the rate for next year for anything in National skiing. LASH. They have already given us a budget agreeing to discount. fAYLOR: Will they do layout? PFIEF FER: Yes. SPARKS: Another point in advertising, what about director's of ski schools right near here. [hey have had a complete disregard for this meeting. If I go home and say I committed f~astern to $300 and yet'the boys from the home area didn't shell, this could be tough Lor me. LASH: Thls is George's problem. SPARKS: To finish my agreement, if I go with that attitude into this, I might as well not 'orne myself. I really don't care whether or not they come. I say, let's go on from :Jhere we are now and make it something, and then I's sure we'll draw the files. F:NGLE: I feel that we should b:-ing Albouy in on committee on advertising. He haH anV,lePl md ways of getting advertising through the National Retailers and Ski Manufact:urers and '.:an get us advertising that won't cost us. -:;PARKS: I think we should also do something ourselves. Let's pay our own way. Let I)eople know we are willing to do it.· ;';NGLE: There are people much more able to do this sort of thing that we are and we ; ho uld take advantage of it. ['AYLOR: A fellow in an agency told me if we could get a brochure out to all beginning ;lders, something could be made of it. Ski instructors are closer to beginning skiers . han anyone else. If you have something to advertise and instructors would hand it out, 't11 you have is an advertisers name on the back page. ',;PARKS: We Ire giving them quite a bit for what they get too. My school would not be ;lllowe.d to go alonE, with this. It's the principle of prestige. Initially we should do some- ;ling and then see who will'help.t Warte:n- .said last fall this, "have Hart put out the Manual for all instructors". I wrote kind or a snootY letter. I felt I would not endorse it. rf Hart ski company wanted to sell thea skis all they had to do was build a better ski. Committee Meeting- 3 SPARKS: This feeling goes back into the NSA of trying to get something for nothing. Once you do something yourself the rest jump on the bandwagon. LASH: In our division the ski instructors are leading the division. We do anything we want in the division. PFIEFFER: I have two problems foreseeable in this thing: 1, the Far West did not get here better because the group is not too well organized to the idea of national skiing. People want to see Far West benefit. We could put the same amount of money into local newspapers. Therefore I am not at libe:r:ty to say I want so much money for advertising. Another thing, we should be making a mistake in putting all our eggs in one basket • . SPARKS: People nOw realize ski instru':::tors are moving forward. I am sure it should be a coordinated effort and I think we should take the chance. So we can fall back on how much do we need. PFIEFFER: But what happens if the Board turns me down'? How can I commitmyselC: LASH: To be honest, your Board thinks of the Far West to the extent that I am a little teed off about it. SPARKS: Let's go to another viewpoint. If this year we disseminate information to tll individual instructors, how much are, we going to need? LASH: The biggest problem is going to be to get this information out. The only way to do it is to use the National office. TAYLOR: We will do it in the summer. SPARKS: In that case we can have the same budget as last year and we agree that if we have a deficit we have $500. LASH: We can't expect the Eastern which has 200 instructors and Far West which has 200 to pay $50 and Northern Rocky to pay $25. SPARKS: Pro.:.rate it by the exact number of instructors. BOUNOUS: It comes to 50 ¢ a head. JOHNSTON: I am in favor or that. We have 90. SPARKS. 200. ENGEL: 200 PFIEFFER: 200 LASH: 60 Northern Rocky has 20, PNSA 229, Total 999. LASH: 1£ we have advertising and promotion it will be $2 a head. PFIEFFER: Could this fellow Lodders bc a hclp to us ina promotional pl·ogra\ll. JOHNSTON: I listened to this fellow Harvey. He told these fellows they were crazy to spend a lot of money in advertising but should be spending money getting good angle s on publicity through people who know how to handle it. SPARKS: We need $500 anyway. My instructors are not nationally inclined and we should spend our money on our instructors first. LASH: One expense problem is Paul Valar. I ask Paul last night what his expenses were and he said we will talk to you later. We have got to pay his expenses as a committee whatever they are. He represented the United States. At the next Congress we will be able to have the State Department pay for it but this time we have to pay it. PF~EFFER: He benefitted by it too. Suppose he says his expenses were $350. We should tell him we can only go $200. SPARKS: Paul's is going to have to be added on top. When we find out from Paul we prorate it according to the number of instructors. PFIEFFER: When we have the facts we should have a solution. SPARKS: Sid is paying his own expenses because he has the same felling that dissemination to instructors is the basic thing. If we can make them national conscious then we can get the money. Committee meeting - 4 LASH: What is it worth to you to have a report from Poland from someone who is capable? PFIEFFER: This will depend on the report. SPARKS: We have to nail this down by tomorrow. LASH: We are fortunate to have a representative like Paul Valar. Now let's set us a budget. SPARKS: We can't till we get Paul's expenses. LASH: Let's get the budget up to that point. JOHNSTON: 50'; a head will give us $500. LASH: Let's leave it 50'; a head for administrative operation. JOHNSTON: Will we mimeograph the national report and send them to all instructors/ LASH: We send out reports to 1000 instructors, plus phone calls, telegrams etc. PFIEFFER: Do you have an expense account on your costs this year? LASH: My personal expenses would run about-$80-$90. Phone reports secretarial staff, stamps, mailing. PFIEFFER: Let's figure on the basis of 50 .; an instructor but it would be up to you to budget this thing. I could be wrong but I feel that we can accomplish a great deal with what we have in an efficient business like manner. LASH: .1£ we can operate tificiently on a national level we could eliminate a lot of expense on a local level. If every instructor gets a copy of these minutes it is going to cost us a lot of money but it will be worth a lot more than5.:O';. PFIEFFER: But if we have a condensed version it will be read more. JOHNSTON: What further do we have to do on this prorated business? SPARKS: Let's leave it at 50';. LASH: I doubt if it will be enough. PFIEFFER: If not can the NSA carry us. TAYLOR: Somewhat. SPARKS: When do we have to have the money. LASH: If I get the report and send it to all divisions and each division has to reproduce it, it will cost more than if Warren doe sit. PFIEFFER: What if we go over our budget on expenses? TA YLOR: We will bill you for secretarial time and you don.'t pay until you can. PFIEFFER: So that I don't have to tell my directors that it will cost us so much that W~ have to make up this year. It would be hard for me now to say I need 83f. SPARKS: This is a bad time of year to get money from an instructor. LASH: HOwever, now we are fat and able to put out some money. PFIEFFER: We have money too but will they earmark it for this? But it might be a little easier to get money for advertising. LASH: I used to think the Far West ,was the least problem. Now I think it is the most serious problem. You can't get anything out of them. TAYLOR: If your mailing list is now a year old we will need a new mailing list. LASH: The list will change all the time. I have ask for current lists of current instructors. How many people have them? SPARKS: 1£ you want anything on Eastern instructors get in touch with the Eastern office. Write to Littleton. LASH: My file of letters to you is a lot bigger than your letters to me. We have got to estimate a budget. PFIEFFER: Will we have to go more than 50'; because of Poland? JOHNSTON: I move we table that until we have the figures. SPARKS: Second the motion. .. Committee Meeting - 5 TA YLOR: Do you want your own letterhead? LASH: Ye s. we will have it de signed. TAYLOR: Do you want a six month accounting of how the money has been spent? SPARKS: I think this is a very good idea because we will know if we will be going under or ove r. TA YLOR: What is a good month: LASH: March, to be gotten ready in February. ENGEL: But if you had a statement in January you would know how much you had left to play with. LASH: Not enough expenses will show in January, PFIEFFER: Do you want to add advertising costs? LASH: No just administration costs. When we want advertising we will go to schools. JOHNSTON: $500 or 50¢ an instructa,r. Why do we have to Lring this to Milwaukee when we are going to pay for it. SPARKS: We have to be able to say we are giving this amount. of money to be allocated to the use of the instructors association for administration expenses. LASH: Which should include secretarial se rvice and costs of the National office. SPARKS: What is next? LASf;I: I reiterate. let's take care of Paul. TAYLOR: I would like to bring in something. I have told you about Denny Lodders. He is a skier. instructor with the 10th Mt., Class A jumper and runs his own agency and has owned and operated a ski area. LASH: We have got to get a committee report into the NSA. I see no need to send a representative ·Johre ton can handle it. SPARKS: You should be there. LASH: Who is going to pay my expenses? My suggestion is that Johnston present the report. SPARKS: I suggest that the report be given to the National office and distributed. Johnston should announce that you have a copy of the report and do I have a motion to accept it. This is the easie st way to do it. LASH:: But we are late. What will be in our report'? SPARKS: Any committee recommendations, report of this meeting. You have to give a report of the meeting. LASH: The next problem is we have got to get a mialing list of instructors and school J directors. There is no current mailing list of instructors except from PNSA. No division has sent a miling list of ski school directors. SPARKS: Is there time tomorrow in which we can have a committee meeting and produce a report? LASH: We are behind in schedule but we have got to produce a report. JOHNSTON: I move the adjournment. LASH: You are being officially uncooperative. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:40 PM Saturday, May 16, 2:00 P. M., Cienel';ll Meeting; Lash called the meeting to order. As there were many new faces, all those attcnding introduced themselves. LASH:: We will tUrn the meeting over to Pau]., chairman of the technical coordinating group. VALAR: We had a free discussion this morning and didn't come to a conclusion. But al lunch we agreed to the following: Before the fall line you pull not push. But d.ftc r the fall line you can push. Now I have told you enough about the Congress up there. I want to tell you I was in Switzerland at the time anyway. My expenses for the trip to Poland were slightly over $ 200 because they lumped the accommodations right into the $ 50· chanrge. ($163 plus $ 50. ) LASH: Am I going to ask the committee to subsidize this and pay it on a pro rated basis VALAR: I accepted the temporary chairmanship because I feel the group should establis itself. Since we are so big we should rotate the 'committees aJ·ound. We should have suggestions as to what we are going to name a thing and for the sake of our customers we should all call it the same thing. Sometimes, as in wedlan, the German word is better than a translation as it has become established. I think this is the first step we should take. LASH: Let's get the opinoins of the directors about having a national manuaJ. VALAR: My personal opinion is that by pure translation the hard'" work done in Europe has been diluted and badly confused in its detail. We all realize that a manual is a job. We do not have the government agency like Austria which can take the time and the money. Have we got the time and the money? PFIEFFER. This manual problem is a big one. The FWSIA accepted Lash's manual as an int8rim manual because they feel that it realy treated a great variety of things & wasn't baised in any way. So the manua1 committee is working with Bill's manual and trying to work from it. LASH: This manual was done because most divisions work individually on a manual when it would be more economically feasible to have all divisions working together on a manual. Therefore, why not coordinate this? You will not find more difference B throughout the United States than between different areas within divisions. PFIEFFER: If a ski instructor is worthy of his profession we will read everything available on the subject. Most people in the Far West thought that Lash manual was a good job of summarizing the various points of view. LASH: If we don't take care of training of new instructors",somc one clse like state boards of ce'rtification of ski instructors will take over the job. EARLE: We are trying to work on a manual in Eastern and can't get full agreement the re on what we want to teach. SPARKS: The eastern committee accepted Bill's thesis as a basis and from there they went on. When they came to the rally the committee said they have accepted Lash's report and have added things to it. A lot of ski school directors unfortunately do not have a vi olent interest in rallies or clinics, but do have a vote. They thought that for the year they would usc the Lash manual and next year slip a sheet in and go on from there. There are a lot of instructors in the East who are suddenly out in left field. The Lash manual will be purchased and read. LASH: Do you feel that it is feasible to make this a joint effort if revision are made? C an we get one that will suit all divisions? SPARKS: That means waiting another year. VALAR: I was in that committee meeting of Eastern. I suggested that we whould not start from scratch but could discuss each part of the Lash manual and change what we do not like. Then one member of the committee was suppose to come up with the Saturday, May 16, General Meeting: 2. revision sheet. Our thinking was to make this available on a big scale and let people read it and agree or disagree. But it will take time. Mter all divisions have worked on this one then we have to get together and work our differences out. Then we can come up with a m3.nual that will be acceptable to all. We have to do this step by step but I want to work on a national scale. K. SMITH: As we know this is an outline of ski techniques. It is very helpful as far as you boys are concerned in learning to teach and for passing tests. It is not a method but an outline. Also, when you watch this gang ski down the hill it is hard to tell who's who. Since we all ski alike where is the difference. Only in two things, terminology and sequence is which we teach. Therefore I would like to see a glossary or dictionery of ski terms. We have plenty of people here who could help us with the French of German. Continuity we can forget because every man is going to do it his own way. We have got to have some personality. BOUNOUS: What we can do as a national group is to give our candidates semething to study and our examiners a little closer relationship between the divisons to make our examinations more coordinated. Working toward a closer examination for our candidates. We have discussed the possibility of haVling l~.Cl'rt of our examination in a written form to make for better coordination. ') LASH:: The examination procedure is getting tougher all the time. Having part of the examination in a written form ai~ht simplify some ot this. individually asked questions, a lot of this could be on paper. LARR Y: But, if you can't talk you can't teach. LASH: But a lot of this would be done on the hill. Lots of candidates are BOUNOUS: We might add that in the written examination you do not find out if the boy can tatk, but you do find out if he can write. VALAR: We cannot call your book a manual in the old sense. These were usually in the booklet size form defining what things are without any theory or method. 1£ we want to cover the ground we should cover we have to go beyond that little manual we were used to. LARRY: 1£ the candidate is required to read background books and we test him on that, our own manual would not have to be so complete. PFIEFFER: Our associations feeling was that by accepting Bill's outline, for the first time in the United states a man had a chance to look at the whole picutre in one pamphlet and not just one peJS:>n's approach. We felt that later on we could get something much moreJuniform. We are not national association of instructors because we a re only a committee. Therefore all we can do at this point is recommend to divisions that the Lash manual be used as a source. Then each division within itself could discuss ! the problems, suggesting that we rewrite the things that should be added and delete or amend and make a listing of disputed points. The Chairman of the manual committee from each committee should be working on this thing. Some things they will agree on, and these could be the changes. Then you add change s for this year listed on an added sheet. It would probably take two or three years because of the problem of tra vel. SPARKS: It is quite obvious that your manual is accepted and everyone is in the proces s of editing it. Next year in Eastern in two days of sitting down we could have a definite outline which could go to pre s s. JOHNSTON: We feel it is necessary for us to have a manual as we have many applicants who need it. Two years ago we have a manual of Our own but this season we have felt that Bill's was better and we have used it. ENGEL: Our feeling seems to be that there candidates. As Larry brought up, if we have is a definite need for a manual only for the a library of all known ski publications, • SATURDAY, MAY 16, General Meeting: 3 then this would pretty well cover it all. I agree in principle that the manual is a good thing and you have done an acceptable job with it, but there must be changes and correspondence and additions if we go into a manual. We didn't have many copie s in Southern Rocky, SPARKS: In the East we have club instructors and amateur intructors and in their committee they had a great argument about your manual, but I recommended it to them. They have voted to accept this as an outline until a further product is produced. Their acceptance certainly has a basis their. LASH: Along this line of amateur instructors, this also has come in Utah. We felt that it is our responsibility to at least give these people some leads on how to teach. From these programs we are going to get people into our ski schools. VALAR: I had that problem at Sunapee. I wanted the Junior program teachers to join the regular training program of technique and method. We want them to do the same thing the regular instructors do. PFIEFFER: It would help if we are close to making a second edition if you could put this ina loose leaf fashion which would simplify p+,oblems within a division where their own by-laws have to be included. Then later if instructors agree to making a change on mimeographed sheets. CHASE: We are the only division, I guess, that did not accept the manual. The reason basically was one of time. We had just produced our own manual for about $500. of our associations money plus a lot of committee work. Yours went a great deal further than ours but got into fields that we had intentionally left out. Over the last four or five years, we have felt that our most important project was in building up the association and bringing it together. We did't want any thing which might tend to upset the unity of the organization. RAFN: Our division win accept it probably as an interim thing. We are working on our own, but are only 25% done with it. ENGEL: In Southern Rocky we haven't reail y been pressed as yet by the candidates for the type of information that a manual incorporates. Our boys have been able to get different books on skiing and cover what they wanted to plus the ski school techniques. One reason we haven't used it is that we haven't actually taken it up. We already had our own. CUR T: If you are going to have a manual we must decied on its scope. If it is to be for the training of new instructors rather than for old instructors perhaps we should think in terms of transing rather than publishing a manual. In our association the training of instructors has been the job of the ski schools, where it belongs. Therefore I think our association is taking care of the need. Perhaps we should be thinking in terms of a different program of training instructors and on what level. For example, the two week programs at Mt. Hood~'. I don't think it is up to the association to train instructors. After all it is a profession and it is up to the individual who wants to be on(' to pay for it. LASH: If we need more professional instructors we have to find more potential instructiors. SPARKS: We have an idea we are thinking about in the east, running a week of ski school on a commission basis. I get leads from a lot of people who would like to become ski instructors, but there is no training school. It could be an income for us. SATU~DAY, MAY 16, General Meeting: 4 1£ the ski scho ols don't do it they are mis sing the boat. Every ski school director has a library which is available to any instructor, as far as bOOks are concerned. VALAR: Young boys that are could need experience in how to direct a ski school. A. school director should know every phase himself in order to control his business. This is being done in Eutope for many year. This could be done only on national level. SPARKS: The only real row that comes up this year was that all scho,?ls called them-s elves certified ski schools. The eastern association objected to this because they do not certify schools, they certify instructors. Action was passed that we cannot call ourselves certified ski schools. LASH: Do you want to ~t urn this problem over to the coordinating group and how shall the committee be selected? SPARKS: I move that the present committee those who are closer to it at this point continue for another year definitely and that next spring they be directed to appear at the meeting with each divisions critique and come up with something to be brought before the assembled group. PFIEFFER: Who is the pre sent committee? LASH: Paul Valar, Eastern,Cnrt, SR., Carl Hinderman, N. R., Jr. ISA, Gordon Wren, FWSA, Kiblman, PNSA. LARRY: Second the motion. (passed.) LASH: I would like to seggest that the group utilize the summer months. K. SMITH: By the way, Brighton would be very happy to extend to all of you an invitation to consider its' bid for next year. LASH: What is the feeling of th~ group on Brighton next year. SPARKS: In all fairness to the east, K., the closer we can get to the east, the easier. PFIEFFER: Is there 'a coice between Alta and Brighton? I know Alta would be very good. How close are the accomodations to skiing. JR. Like this. PFIEFFER: Snow conditions? K. Like this. PFIEFFER: Does saline come out. K. Ye s, but no worse than here. ENGE L: How about combining this meeting with our examinations he re with inte rmountain association so that members present or any ski school director could see an I , ! . \ examination and get ideas froin it. We have our date set up next Tuesday through Friday 19-22, Aporil. LASH:: That is too early. ENGEL: We feel here that A-Basin is the ideal place to h<iLVe this and always has good conditions. I would like' to' put in a ,bid for it to •• LASH: Obviously this is the most geographically ideal place to have it. Salt Lake may be a little better from the point of transportation. ENGEL. There are other areas in this that might be interested. LASH:. Should these bids be referred to committee and deceided by mail? K. Would you like to hear a little more about Brighton? The altitude 'starts at 9, 000 and ski at 10.200 and the snow is the same as here. A few more trees. The hotel is an 80 bed lodge with a nice little bar. It is very close to Salt Lake. It has a chair lift Wlth foot re st. , PFIEFFER: Are the slopes adequate for the demonstrations. K. Ideal. LASH: Do you think we whould ask for bids by mail ? • SATURDAY, MAY 16, General Meeting: 5 PFIEFFER:W.~don't know the rates, but there should be rate discount and lift pri vilege LARR Y: This club he re would be available at rates of $ 8. 50 day with three meals and free skiing. K. Our rates would be comparable. Publicity wise it would be ideal because the newspapers in Salt Lake are interested in this. J. BAILEY: If we had had better coordination in advance, we could have had a better deal on the accomodations and lifts. The meeting adjourned for a short recess. A written vote was taken on where to go next year and Brighton won by a land slide. PUBLICITY AND ADVER TISING: Lash: The next order of business is publicity, promotion and advertising. Boh Parker, National Skiing, was introduced. PARKER: I am normally an editor but today I am in a little different function. We have and idea for this group. Passed out price list for ski instructors advertising campaing. We are in favor of backing certified instructors program wherever we can. It occured to us that you might be intere sted in a nationwide advertising program which would be thr ee things: Promote ski schools. recognize that instructors isn't enough, it should be certified instruction, and name all of the participating schools who would be listed in conjunction with the ad. Summarized figures shown on a rate sheet. This is an expensive program but we feel that with the emphasis on certified instructors ,L~ld the obvious feeling of. the group here, of moving in the direction of national orientation, and also we feel that certified instruct ion is head and shoulders above any other, we think that ski instructors make better news than anyone and whether or not you feel that this is a good program there will come a time when you will wish to operate as group. We invite you to utilize our paid space and we will continne to give yOllmll~cli of our editorial space. I would like to invite discussion of this suggestion. It could be done for l~ss, two rather then three or even one ad. I realize these funds do not exist and would have to come from the various regional instructors associations, but we know there are funds from some of the groups. We have felt that it would be more logical for the national group to advertise than for each division to advertise and reach areas where they have no customers. K. Have you tak'en time to estimate the number of schoolsl a poll was taken of the number of schools in the U. S. Eastern 20-25, NRMSA 1. ISA 8, FWSA 15, SRMSA 8, CUSSA 5, PNSA 20. Roby: From looking at these figures and what I know of the advertising power of most ski schools, we deserve this kind of advertising but by the time we include another magazine and several lesser publication in the ski field it would look like an advertising budget not far from $10, 000. This is more than ski schools can afford. I feel that we should tell the advertising man to see what better figures he could give us. LASH: Some of the divisions are now advertising. Some of the rest of us would like to I had the idea that we should consolidate it. PARKER. For 77 schools it would be $ 41 per school. SPARKS: Pro rated, it on $ 8, 000 because we still have to place it in othe r magazine. PARKER: $ 104 . Another possiblity which is technically possible would be to have the same ad run two different times in two different publications and spli,," the budget that SATURDAY, MAY 16, General Meeting; 6 way. We are providing free art and color; but other magazines might do this to which would give you three different insertions at three different times. We would like you to consider it first for us but if it is a program that you would want to carryon through other publications we would like to cooperate with you. Q: When does the December issue come out; A: Right around the first of the month. Newsstand ~ate will be the same next year. SPARKS: Right down to the facts, the committee financially is a nothing. We stand at the gate of beginning something and would love to do this but where the actual cash comes. from makes it almost impssoble. PARKER: We know this. However, I would appreciate your giving it as as possible. Then would you lik, us to correspond with the editors of the to follow this up or to corre spond with the ski schools? much discussion regional groups SCHAEFFLER: First of all my opinion is based only on the experience with school at A-Basin and has nothing to do with the publisher of magazines. My experience of the past 11 years, is that advertising in our schools was.~ almbst a complete failure in magazines. However, an ad in the local paper broughr unbelievable returns. The price is outrageous. The publisher of the ski magazines should offer us the space for 4.50/0' of what it is now. This will be used and played aginst each other by different magazines. In golf the pros are not advertising. The manufacurers are doing it for them. We can do much more for the public by being approached by the editors to write constructive article s for them. PARKER: There are good reasons for advertising in national and in regional publications. The possiblity of ~ffering this type of ad at a greatly reduced rate is out of the question for the same reason that you can't offer different rates to different men. Our space has to go to everyone for the same price. SPARKS: But we offer to junior racing programs thousands and thousand of dollars. We not not offer the same service to ski clubs because it is to the ..... £it of the sport that we spend this money and write it off as advertising and promotion.. You can offc r specialized:leals to specialized groups. PARKER: We feel that wtthin the framework of our editorial policy we have done a great deal for ski schools. Is it a question of 'o!iIdvertising effective or can we afford it? There are many organizations in this comtTy and in Europe who believe in posters a.s a means of spreading the word. At the bottom of this page are posters twice the size of the page with !he thought that if you did decide that this was a good program to have th ad translated into a poster and have it circulated, and we would be 'willing to handle the mailing. I think that is as far as we could reasonably be expected to go. ROB Y: Maybe I didn't use the righ t word a while ago. From the point of view of ski instrLlction in general I was trying to say what Willie said. PFIEFFER: Would the posters be paper backed? PARKER: Paper PFIEFFER: Has the Eastern division participated in national advertising in national publications? Also, George, your division has done something. Do you think it has significant value. ? SPARKS: Last year there was some disagreement with the type of ads we ran. I thought how corny can we get. Speaking for my ski school the public reaction to these ads was extremely good. It was mentioned many times to the personnel of the ski school. I feel that the advertising we have done on a divisional level has paid us back hand over first. • • • SATURDAY, MAY 16, General Meeting: 7 PFIEFFER: Can we ask Herbert and Paul? VALAR: We are very satisfied. PARKER: We are audited this year at 58,000 skiers. We got a lot of mention about that ad out here in the west because it was clever. If an ad were clever enough it . would reach a lot of skiers. SPARKS: The price of this should be rated on the basis of the size of the ski schoo •• SCHAEFFLER: No advertising agents should know who participates and who doesn't just to show how strong we are professionally by listing all OlU' schools • SPARKS: We would advertize for someone who doesn't pay his way. SCHAEFFLER: We are doing all the ski publications a service. They need us. They need the pro much more than we need the paper. So why should we pay this outrageous price. We are doing a service for each other. RAFN: Willie is right and everyone here is also right. Is there possibility that Mr. Hastings might reconsider on the basis of a plea from this group to make it a more attainable figure. PARKER: Another alternative: if you feel that you can spend less, it would mean less space. I cannot assure you that we will go further than he has. RAFN: Is there a possibility of an exchange of one fo;rm or another? PARKER: I don't see any possibility fOr an exchange. The point is it might be if you could come up with a concrete suggestion from the organization on a concrete some all approach us for this, I am sure that the publisher would consider it. PFIEFFER: If the publisher would pay even 75% for the articles in consideration of the advertiser's space. PARKER: Everyone who has written anything at our request since last has received full pay. PFIEFFER: What is full rates? PARKER: $ 50 a page. PFIEFFER: And you ask $ 1000 a page for adve rtising ! PARKER: This is just one of the things we are all faced with. 1£ you are interested in this point and if anyone of you has a photo or a story whic h you consider salable, I would be very happy to considc r it at our rate s. Our rate s arc cOllsidc rably highc r that our competition. SCHAEFFLER: Ycu just mentioned that your company call1lot cut the rates. How COil manufacturers are able to offer equipment right over the counter for something like 60% less than retail price for the pros. You cannot do that because you set your own J policy. PARKER: No, because this is true for every magazine in the country. There is a built in mark up in sk i items. That built in mark up is not ain a publication. A publication is not that profitable. LASH: Let's discuss whether we want advertislng or promotion? Lot's of people start skiing and give up because they do not take lessons and therefore get discouraged and drop it. SCHAEFFLER: Out of 800 beginners, 30 of them read ski publications, 370 went to ski shops and saw posters about ski lessons. So it seems to me this is much more effective. Ski stores reach our potential and at a much greater rate. ANDERSON: I think the poster is very effective because this the first place the beginners go anyway. SCHEUTZ: That should be in the hands of the area operator. SPARKS: But the skier has to be sold first. Area operators aren't helping. SATURDAY, MAY 16, General Meeting: 8 BOUNOUS: There is no question in my mind as to the importance of the ski school or as to the importance of publicity. I think the dollar value is there. However, in our meeting last night we talked of raising money for advertising but at present wc: arc not' a national organization. in trying to promote cooperation between the divisions we committed oqrselvesu 50 ¢ plilr. sk.i instructor. So if we try to take On a program of $ 6-8, 000 we would have to tell our divisions that we would have to soak each instructor 6 or 8. bucks. Therefore it is not the question of the value of the advertising but where will we raise the money. PFIEFFER: This is my thinking too. Perhaps we should find out here how many people think we should advertise nationally this year. If we don't think it's a good thing let's not waste any more time. SPARKS: Let's explain this 50¢ deal is strictly for administration purposes. This is not going for any other thing besides administration. PARKER: Let me conclude my remarks by saying I don think you wjll want to advertise in ski publications and hope you will consider what you would like to do and what you will be able to spend and we will be glad to help you, including the making up and maili ng of posters. At any rate I am here with the idea that we both have something for each other. LASH: Thank you. I would like to express my a'ppreciation and the groups for the tremendous job you did on the article on ski teaching last year. It was a big boost to skiing. BOUNOUS: I think Bob is right in bringing his program here pecause he may find three or four divisions advertising this year and perhaps it could be coordinated. Also it is the trend in the direction toward national advertising. SPARKS: How much money do you spend in SKI and SKIING now? BOUNOUS: In the Intermountain it has just come up as a matter of discussion. ENGLE: We spend $ 300. PFIEFFER: We might be ready to go $ 300. SPARKS: We spent $2600 between SKI and SKIING last year. The Eastern gives us the money. In three divisions this makes $ 2600 already so in a few years We' can ~r()w into something like this and it would be very effective. We are growing into it and in 3 or 4 years or maybe less. LASH: Let's not kill this thing. PFIEFFER. Would it be a good idea to have only one pin? SPARKS: No. SCHAEFFLER: N°o, Could we spend some money in our group nationally to doing a survey as to how many lessons we get out of the national advertising? CURT: Howalbout some of these people in the ski business being willing to help promote certified ski instruction. I think we should express appreciation of the instructors and • perhaps consider a foot in the door to encourage others to do likewise. • LASH: I wrote them a letter. K. There is an open door in the fact that the readable material gets across to the skier more than the ad. The articles you read are those written by ski instructors more than any other. PARKER: Unfortunately it is true that no publication can exist to bring reading mate rial across to the public without the advertising which is the way it supports itself. K. Why tap us to support your magazine. One of the best advertising projects would be a coordinated effort to allot certain articles to each one. We could have in every publication articles that deals with why you should go into ski school. PARKER: The Ski Council of American is in existence for that very purpose. They are seeking funds to do what the sports institute does for fishing and hunting institues & • • SATURDAY, MAY 16. General Meeting: 9 does for hunting. You aU want to give your support to this. PFIEFFER: The Far West has already joined this as a association and are trying to give them every chance to get going because they might be the answer to our advertising problems. BOUNOUS: The United ftates is very advertising conscious. I would be proud to be represented by something that we were paying for. LASH: I would like to recommend to the division that your instructor associations join Ski Council of American. I SCHAEFFLER: Let's first see what the SCA has to offer. ROBY: It is an old idea that has finally come into existance. No single unit in skiing has enough financial power to help the sport increase. Even when we advertise we do it to a closed circle. This takes an enormous amount of money. That is what the Council will be. It will be the advJrtising bureau of everyone who makes a buck from skiing. E very member is required to contribute 1/10 of his advertising budget. Until they reach $ 100.000 there is no point in starting. That money will be used to reach advertising media that have been out of reach of anyone in skiing. This will be with no names attached for skiing with a big\'S." PFIEFFER: There is no end to the good they could do. Not saying that they will. RAFN: Like" I dreamed I went skiing in my Maidenform Bra" ROBY: The money is now in escrow until it reaches $ 100,000. K. I understand that $ 25 is the minimum charge. PFIEFFER: Charter membership is $ 1. 000. LASH: I kthink we all realize that promotion and publicity is a probtem. Is it alright it set the date of the next convention for the same week as this one. ? BOUNOUS: Will there be an increase in attendance? LASH: I would estimate 60 people. ENGLE: There arc 40 on the dinner count for tonight. LASH: Jr. expressed what we decieded last night on administration costs. As far as the National Association is concerned, I am in favor but I don't: know who we cOllld administer it now. The only way is through different office. Another possibility would be a system similar to the Ski Patrol system whe ro the delegate s would be elected by the delegates. In return we would have a seat on the Board of Delegates. SPARKS: Only in regard to NSPS decisions. LASH: We also might become affiliated to NSA and use different office but same arrangments. But I do not f;ee how we could break right now. PFIEFFER:.J If we wanted to we could form a national association and start it right now. The problem is that we would need money to operate. Would the different division' be willing to kick in a part of their budget for a national office?, RAFN, I don't know. SPARKS: I don't think we could answer that righl now. Have you had a free hand to operate as far as National goes or has anyone interfered? Do they do what you recomml automatically? No kick back from president, direct.or Or office·rs? LASH:: There has been no interference. SPARKS: Do we need to form this national organization? LASH: But the divisional representatives and national chairman are appointed by the National president. SPARKS: Make recommendations then. LASH: I would recommend that the division officerfl be eleclpd by t.he inst.ruct.orR of their association. ENGLE: We put through that regulation last year. SATURDAY MAY 16, General Meeting: 10 RAFN: Wouldn't it be wise since it is impossible to get very far with National this year to make this a primary thing on the agenda for next year. LASH: It has been On the agenda every -year. SCHAEFFLER: Southern Rocky Mountain automatically accepts as representative to the division the chairman of our association tHat we vote on in our annual clinic. LASH: It is the same in Intermountain, but in somf; cases it is not. ENGE.t..: This could be recommended to the Divisions that it be changed in their by-laws that the president of th~ divisions automatically be the representative to the division. SCHAEFFLER: This way we at least havG our representative in there. LASH: What about change in officers at conventions. SPARKS: If you put a motion to National that the Chairman of the Committee be given a term of at least thr~e yt;ars and del~gates at ~east two years, your would get continuity. LASH: The possibility is if we get a new president of NSA and he appoints a committee chairman who is completely unfamiliar with the sM up. SPARKS: Why not now put a recommendation in which wilL provide that the Chairman of the Certification Committee be given a term of three years ahd a ci~legates appointed by the divisional level fOr a term of two year. Th¥n if a delegate does not attend or write letters you can write the president and throw him out. If we are going to play politics, do it now. Who is going to the convention? LASH: I can:t go. I think we should c'onsider Jimmy Johnston; SCHAEFFLER: Several of our m~n are going already. Last year we gbt tnany things done because we were the reo SPARKS: If we show progress we will be in a better position. PFIEFFER: The NSA is agaoinst long term apt>oin~metlts. If a fellow is good they re-elect him. SPARKS: But on the other hand a fellow cannot be ~fficient unless he has continuity. SPIEFFER: I agree completely but there is the national policy. SPARKS: We have to push our point that there are some cases where it is necessary. BOUNOUS: How do you get appointed to the committee? LASH: Alton appointed me. It was on the recommendation of the national committee. K. SMITH: Who invited the ski school directors? LASH: On the basis of last year's committee recommendations. SPARKS: I think what happens he re to be a recbmmendation to the committee which is practically mancfatoi-y. CUR T: I wonder if the re would be any problem involved to put it through the ski instructor groups in the division so that the committee member from that division would be an elected representative of the instruct ors association rather than appointed. We could ask for a special ruling in regard to this cOlnmittec and then do the same thing on a national basis as far as the chairman is concerned. LASH: Exactly the way it should be. Take PNSA for example. I don't know what the situation is up there, but I don't know if the present representative really has the instructors behind him" because he is an appointed representative. RAFN: We have been appointed by the president of the divisiol1. Due to the ~ilct that Harlacher was designated for reaSOns that no one understa~d, we as instructors, ( coul not hear the rest of this, c. h. ) LASH: What about Far West, Who is 011 the commlt~ee, when will he be appvlnted aud how? PFIEFFER: Idon It know • a • SATURDAY, MAY 16, General Meeting: 11 LASH: Will there be a new man on that committee next year? PFIEFFER: It could be arranged very simply where the appointee has a two or three year term. K. SMITH: Could the divisional 1;'~presentative on the committee be appointed to the committee until the successor be names. SPARKS: On the divisional level in each division if the ski instructors association recommend something do the divisional delegates accept it? SCHAEFFER: Yes PFIEFFER: It I S getting to be more in that direction. LASH: Yes, but this thing could change. SPARKS: Not if we are progressive. SCHAEFFLER: Any division who doesn't go along with us is cutting their own throat. If we go seperate from the association it would be the best thing we have every done. Th, NSA is a very light weight organization which does little for its Plembers or for the recreational skier. SPARKS: What would you like? The basic thing you need fs a representative from the instructors from the division, and secondly, LASH: The chairman should be elected by his committee. SPARKS: So we recommend that to the National and it will go through. LASH: Shall we have johnson make this in the form of a resolution at the NSA. SPARKS: It is recommended that the chairman of the national certification committee be elected by the members of that committee. The members of the committee shall be elected representatives of the c-ertifed ski instructors of each disicion, to serve until a successor is names. JOHNSTON: They will never officially go for a two year term. LASH: We shoud leave this out the two year term. (This was in the originally stated form of the re solution. ) JOHNSTON: In our division there is a committee set up that appoints the examiners & we do have a check on this each year from each' instructor, who he wants as examiners. I would be interested to know if any of you can see any problems from Central. We feel that we are functioning very well. LASH: But next year because of some politcal flub \/p you may be having problems. K. SMITH: Itn's your instructors group more qualified than -the president of the association. Actually the president aks for recommendations of the committee. SPARKS: Let's skip the appointment and leave this up to the division. JOHNSTON: To say that the representative from the division shall be elected is no national busine s s. LASH: We need this partly because a lot of instructors do not feel that they have a part in voting . SPARKS: I think we should elect a president right now so we can go in with a man right away. JOHNSTON: You don:'t know who the committee members will be next year. SPARKS: If we don It go in with a man right now we will be choked by the time lag. LASH: We should do in right here together. SPARKS: I move that Lash be President. ENGLE: Second AND Passed. JOHNSTON: I am on the constitution and by-laws committee of national. They cannot take action on the process of how the committee members are chosen. This is a prerogative of the pre sident of NSA. SPARKS: Do you think you could corne up with a form that would go? SATURDAY, MAY 16, General Meetin~l 12 JOHNSTON: The first part is certainly appropriate. LASH: It i3 just a recommendation to the national The first part of the motion on appointment 9f chairman was passed. The second part recommended to the divisions and read to the national. SPARKS: We cannot do this, it must go back to the divisional level. PFIEFFER: But it should be spolen of at the NSA. SPARKS: This will have to come up through the divisional association. JOHNSTON: How is the chairman of the instructors association appointed in Eastern? SPARKS: Ap~ointed by the president. JOHNSTON: So you would have to change your procedure. SPARKS: No, we would' have an election at the rally or a mail vote and that would be Daly's man for the next year. LASH: Should we make a recommendation to the national about this thing. Recommendation passed. Meeting adjourned at 4;45 P. M. , Cocktail Pary sponsored by Willy Schaeffler. Director Arapahoe Ski School at the Faculty Club. --~---- • |