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Show Uinta Council 47, In3oector McLaughlin: A number of your speakers have said that you do not want your land stolen from you. My friends, these hills, these streams, these valleys will all remain just as they are. There will be no change in the nature of the country but the improvements that will come when white people cone in among you. My frienda, Red Cap said my talk wa3 cloudy/, and you do not understand it. You are the people who are in the dark in regard to the force of thia act of congress, and I am trying to bring you into the light. You aay that line ia very heavy and that the reservation i3 nailed down upon the border. That is very true as applying to the past many |^ yeara and up to now, but congreas has provided legislation which will pull up the nails which hold down that line and after next year there will be no outside boundry line to thia reservation. Each of you will have a boundry to youB individual holdings and ihere will also be a border to that 250.000 acre tract set apart for pasturage. You fear that you are going to be confined to the tract of land alloted. That is not so, and I will explain a little more clearly, Por many years you have occupied this large tract of land known as your reservation, and when you went outside that tract the whte men you net thought you had no right to travel out3ide of the reservation, but when you take your allotments you can travel like white men and you will not need a pass . Your Agency will be continued just the sane as now; the Agent will have full jurisdiction just the ^^ same as now, to protect your interests^ and as citizens you will have the rpotection of the laws of the stats to redress injuries against you. The opening of the reservation and taking of allotments give you a great many privileges you do not enjoy at the present tine. Remember your allotments are exempted fron taxation for twenty five years. You will receive what is called a trust patent for your respective allotments which secures rjae land to the / i I -^ Uinta Council, 43, allottees and their children, and none of you can sell your individual allotments during the trust period of twenty five years. Tow my friends, I think we are coning nearer each other b. nd that you understand ne. The question of opening the reservation is not with you\ that has been determined by the act of cor. gre. t3. One of your speakers said that Washington never sent out that word beforo. That may be true, but I am now here to announce it to you, and ny friends, I wish you to understand fully and clearly the import of the words which I convey to you. ^ e want to discontinue useless discussion as to the opening of the reservation and take up the question whither or not you are willing to take your allotments as provided in the act. fy Tim Johnson; You do not talk like they talked to me in Washington, you talk aa though you stole Washington's mouth. Here are men who were with me in Washington. The Secretary talk3 just the ™ ay you have been talking but the president don't talk that way. He did not talk that way when I was there. I don't believe that you cone from the president. You are not from Washington; you are from where congress is. They should not have Bent you here. The;' should have sent some one here to ask the Indians about this filing first. We did not talk about this allotment when I was there. They told me " when those fellows talk don't pay attention to them. If they talk about you land like that don't let it get into your ears". While we were* talking there the secretary telephoned, and Washington, said " Pay no ^^ attention to him. I do not want hin to cone into my house. Let him stay out there". That's the reason we are holding back on this., ^ The- secretary told us about this $ 1,25 business. That ha3 been talked before. Uinta Council, 44, Inspector McLaughlin: With reference to the statement Tin Johnson has made, no act of congre33 becomes a law until signed by the p re jident and I am here today talking to you people and presenting to you the wall of thp president, because he has signed the Act and made it a law, that is, the Act of Congress for opening your reservation was approved and signed by the President and it therefore is sanctioned by him. The Act having been approved by him it now becomes the duty of the Secretary of the Interior to carry out that lawy, as he repreaents the President in Indian natters. My friends, I have no doubt but that if you were in Washington two years ago the officials of the Department may have told you that your claim to this reservation .^ was good. That was before the decision of the Supreme court of five months ago which I have told you of, since which decision the policy of consulting Indians in regard to opening their reservations has changed. My friends, Congress has passed a law opening your roservation and the president has consented to it by signing the Act. Under that act you rsy consent to take allotments of your own selections and if you refuse they will be arbitrarily allotted to you, and in addition to your individual allotnenta 250,000 acres will be set apart for your common grazing grounds. That will be done on or before a year from, the first day of next October and you^ surplus land will be thrown open for settlement on that date. ' Therefore. my friedds, it is for you to decide whether you prefer selecting your allotments for yourselvea or that they be arbitrarily ^ S fcssigned to you- It i3 useless for you to talk along the lines • you have been talking. You should now confine your deliberations to the consideration of the one proposition, that is, the acceptance cf your allotments. Therefore( for the remainder of this day, to- •"• night, and tomorrow morning, confine yourselves to the consideration '/ ^ Uinta Council 45, of this question whether you are willing to accept your allotments or have them arbitrarily allotted to you. You have been wasting time trying to discuss a matter entirely foreign to the question before you. Remember the question before you is, will you consent to accept your allotments or not? Think of this question and try to give me an answer to it to- morrow afternoon at two o'clock. We will now adjourn till two o'clock tomorrow afternoon. Sockive: I an telling you thetruth and I am not telling you a lie. We do not talk two ways. All these men say that. They talk only one way. They do not want this land cut up. That'a what I am tell- ^ ing you. I am not going to give you this land. You come here tomorrow and talk about it. Council adjourned at 5: 45. P. M. Council reconvened at 2 o'clock p. n. Thursday May 21at with 112 Indiana in attendance. John Reed interpreting Inspecor McLaughlin: My friends, we have met again according to the understanding when we adjourned yeaterday. I an ready to listen to anything you may have to aay, and hope you have come to some conclusion in the question submitted to you. Parank: • What we are to talk about has been before us a long time and . * we have1nt anything else to aay about i t . Tnis that you are t e l l i n g about that Congre33 has done is not vsry old. It is not old yet. We dont want i t to go that way. That's what I say, and that is vdsL& t I think. I want i t put a3ide. ' Uinta Council, 46. Red Cap. This reservation line has been there for a long tine. Thi3 what you are tailing now ia new. This what I an telling you is old. I an not going to throw that aside. Thia what you are telling about what Congress has done, is not Vary old. It is not old yet. TTe don't want it to go that way. That is what I 3ay that is what I think. It has been here before the white men and the M. oman cane. What you are telling ia new. This new talk you have brought in, I want it turned aside. It ha3 been going as it is ^^ since before I was born. Your talk is nothing, I -'. ant you to say " yes", I ". ant you to say that it is to go the way I talk. I want you to say, " I an listening". Inspector McLaughlin: I wish to re- ply to my two frienda who have just spokea. They have brought up a po- ant which is a strong argument in favor of what I an presenting to you. An old law'always remains till displaced by a new one. Since the establishment of your reservation you have been governed by that old law referred to by your speakers. My friends, Governments are like people. Tne older the more advanced they become. Those of you now here know a great deal more than your fathers, because you have been advancing. and your children will kno7" more of the - hite man's waya than you do. Our- Govern- * m e n t ia advancing steadily just the same as the people and our Congress has come to the conclusion that the best thing for the Indians of the country is to break up their reservations and settle then on individual allotments. Tr13-"*? old law which these two speakers have referred to ha3 been abolished and this new law takes its place, Uinta council, 47. which from thia time on will govern in dealing with you, a3 with other Indian tribes. I have taken great pains to explain to you that it is useless to think of retaining the reservation as in the past. You and I might talk here for a month and we would make no change in that. All your wishes would effect no change in that law. This being the law my friends, the next best thing for you to do is to accept what will be of the greatest benefit to you. The question of consenting tc accepting your allotments is the one you are to consider and determine upon, as passed by the great council and signed by the President of the United States. - hat is the simple, plain questionbefore you. Tim " Johnson. These men here are telling you the truth about this reservation fer " they have been here a long tine. This line was put ^ ers a long tine before the white people cane. This talk of Congress is new and has only lately been nade. We do n05. want it to go that way. Their talk in Congress is not very old. Th^ s is our land chere ?/ e were born and that is the way we want It to go. _ ThatS the reason I say " I wont let you have it". ' What I tell you is good. You are ny friend and I want you to say" ye3n. Inspector McLaughlin. My friends, I know the status of this reservation and how it was established. There was a certain tract of land here withdrawn from settlement and set apart upon which any Indians in Utah might be located. It was in 1861 - 41 years ago, that it waa thua s£ t aside. I have no fault to find with you for the view you take of it jpjou having been under that system a great many, years. But aince » y arrival here I have been trying to impress upon you, and make ra understand clearly, that these conditions have ended and a new *'* law has displaced the old one. And you must conform to the new '* order of things and accept this act, it being now a law. The ' Government is the bast friend of the Indiana and will do nothing Uinta Council, 48. which ia not for their benefit in the end. Remember your landa are not being taken away from you by this Act, You are receiving allotn^ ata and it ia nnly the surplus lands that will be opened to settlement. I am telling you the truth, my friends, and you must bring yourselves to look upon it in the proper light. Appah. I do not understand what that new law is I do not understand about our reservation line made by that old treaty, how this new law can throw that off. I do not understand that. I do not know how it is that the President put his name on that Act of Congress, You are pulling ne round from this line here I do not Seel very happy when you do that. I do not understand- why Washington's name was put on that. " hen you qut our land up and put me en a piece'of land I don't understand it. You say, it is thrown open and it seens I can't understand it. You have not shewn it plainly ••' enough for me. I can't understand why you are pulling me round over the country, but you are pulling me round like a horse. You are pulling down the Agency and ycu are pulling the 0 school down too. This is why I don't unde- stand it You have it hid in your pocket, and I don't understand it., and it seems as though I had no sense. I am not going to think the way of this new law. Why don* t you throw that law away? You are jjiust like a storm coming down from the mountains when the flood is coming down the stream and we can't stop it. I have this reservation line fixed and you can't throw it aside. Eappy Jack. Ve have all met here now and are talking. We are your friends and we don't want any trouble. Let us be friends. You have ycur friends, and we Indiana are your friends. We are shaking hand3 together and we don* t want any quarrels. I am going Uinta Council, 49. to talk to you now why I am afraid of this; and afraid of the White nan. Long time ago we had a talk in the old school house here about allotments and throwing the reservation open. Senator Rawlins was there. I am afraid t> f this because the 7. hite man don't like the Indiana, They d-> nJt like our flesh,- our color. After that, Senator Rawlin3 went back and Judge MeConnell came. I understand all about that. Judge McConnell said, " we want to lease your reservation mines, those elaterite mines", and he 3aid," You Indians will have lots of . money. I will pay you eVery three months." The Iridiar. 3 had a council and said, " All right. We have a father in Washington. We will go down and see 7/ hat he says about it." Charley Mack was interpreter. Tim Johnson, so'^ sina, and nyself, and it took U3 six days to go. We went into Washington in the night when th. 6 electric lights were all bright. There was a carriage with four horse3 and we rode to a hotel. We went into a fine building, got fine roon3, good beds and everything nice. Fext day we said, " We want to go and see our father. They told us, n? ou change your clothes. " They told us to go to the store and get clothes. We went there and bought what we wanted of clothes. We then went out, and they pointed out a place to us and said, " That's the place'.' There was a fins big white house there. Around it there were no buildings, but there were some soldiers on one side and aome soldiers on the other Bide. There was an iron fence around it, and at the gate were two Hegro policemen with badges on. The Agent h^ u a pass, ^ hen we went to the door these negroes stepped in front of us and the Agent gave then a paper. We went on indide. At another door were two more Hegro policemen; they stopped us the Bane as the first two did. Then we went on inside and sat down. After a nhile a bell made a noise, and at one side, through a door, that opened we could hear some one walking_ -^- e all lined up^ ^ e came into the doorway Uinta Council, 50. with a snile on his face and he did not lock mean. Re had a anile and he cans and stepped in front of us and spoke to Charley Mack and Charley spoke to him. Then he cane up and ahook hands with Charley and all of us. He said "^ 11 right, my boys." We were there only a little while, not very long, and we went out again. The Preaident's name was McXinley. The next day we went into the place where they talk .' Congresa) We then went to a house where they had no 3tair3. There was a hole in the middle and a cage that took ua up and they locked the door, and we went up quick. And when we cane to a floor they opened it and wa were introduced to the Conni3Sioner of Indian Affairs. We shook hands with him but we did net talk very much, just a little bit- The Conmi33icner ^ told us that this land belonged to us He said that the White Men around our reservation did not talk right. And he told ua, " Th33e Tnite Men, they are stealing my mouth, because I an a long way from them." We were shaking with fear before going there, but when the Commissioner told us that we felt as i£ we were alive again. We felt all right, and came home feeling good. We got the Indian^ together and told them about our trip. That lease did not go through very soon, It was six months before that went through so that the White Men could mine. That is the reason why these Indians refuse to believe what you are telling them. President McTCinlsy thought a great deal of the Indians. I liked him very much. After that, the man who liked us ao well was killed by a White Man. The Indians felt very bad over it. They did not 0~ like to hear that their father was killed and it made them all feel bad. I do not know this new President, but I have heat- rd that his name is Roosevelt. He does not like my flesh back there. The good talk that was talked to the Indiar. 3 ; is all - chaag- ii. They do not talk that way now. He is talking now in Washington, and he says, " Ye3, open the reservation." I don't like that; theae Indi- - i i Uinta Council, 51. an3 do not understand that. Tnat ia the reason these Indians do not think that what you are telling then is Straight. These men here, when Washington told t » s to go and make farms, we did it. A-We like to^ that way. We said, aYes". Our great chief talked that way. They said, " We want your children to have an education: send your children to school. The children have no education; they die and go unde- the ground without knowing anything." How they do not know what to think of it when that paper comes here. They just look at you, and don't understand it at all. When they are talking about that, they cannot get anything out of it. Inspector McLaughlin: I » ant to say that Happy Jackha3 made a very good talk. Hi3 description of his trip to Washington is doubtless true and ' quite interestingt His estimat'. ion of President McKInley Is deserving and very commendable. He nas a good rn , loved by all who knew him, and was a true friend of the Indians. We never had a President who knew more about the Indiana than President Roosevelt doe3. He has spent months at a time among the Indians on the frontier, and when our war with Spain broke out, he went to Cuba with a regiment and had nany Indians in hi3 command. When Congre33 assembles in December, each year, the President 3ends a message to Congress, and President Roosevelt has sent two such messages, in which he haa always recommended, in the strongeat language, the Indian's welfare. I thought I had a book ' in icy pocket containing an extract fron his last message, but I have not. In that message to Congress he spoke most kindly of the Indiana. I want you to feel that you have in President Roosevelt, a3 good a friend aa you ever had in any President. Rensnber that while being at the head of the Government, he is only an executive officer, and is required to carry out the laws of Congress. And a3 thi3 Act of Congress haa been approved by him and has his signature attached to it, its provisions must be complied with, and Uinta Council, 52. the Secretary and the Comnisaioner, who act for the President in such matters, will see that you are justly treated and that you will receive every dollar realized from your surplus lands. I an very glad that Happy Jack nade hi3 speech as it haa enabled ne to advise you of this. Parank: I think there are minerals on this reservation. Washington knows where to find them and that* 3 the reason I want to keep it. On thi3 reservation, there i3 gold and silver and this black stuff, fgilsonite) That' 3 why I am talking. I am afraid of it. I am talking because I am afraid. If I saw Congre33 making thi3 law, I would listen to it. I would talk different if I knew Washington talked as you do. I have this land £ or my children. I am saying thi3 to you because you are my friend. Inspector McLaughlin: You need not be afraid of the White men. You have an agent here. He is a war chief and will take care of you. Tomorrow I want you to cone here again at two o'clock and I hope we can finish this busineaa then. I don't want to hurry you but the sooner our council terminates the better.. Meet together to night and council among yourselves and try to be ready to vote on thia question when you meet ne tcTmorrow. We will now adjourn till tomorrow at two o'clock. Council adjourned at five o'clock, p. m. n Uinta Council, 53. Council reconvened at two o'clock p. n, Friday May 22, with 120 Indians in attendance. John Reed and Vernie ? fack interpreting. Inspector McLaughlin: My friends, we have met again, and I expect to hear from some of you to day as to the results of your council last night. I expect to hear some cor. alusion which you nay have reached. I want to call your attention to one tiling that I have observed here yeater-day and again to day. when you ss3enble in our business councils you di3cua3 among yourselves. I would prefer that you would confine your diacussions of that kind to youi tribal councils" before coming to thi3 council. 3fy friends, remember that it is not a qaeation of opening the reservation. It ia the queation whether or not you consent to take your allotments under the provisions of the Act of Congresa which I present to you. I have taken great pair. 3 and explained to you repeatedly in every session; that Congresa has already provided for opening the reservation and the only question for you to decide is ?/ hether you are willing to take your allotments or not. Tim Johnson: You had your tziftlk in Congre3a. How we talk to you, and when y. you t e l l us you are going to open the reservation, we say " no". We w i l l not open the reservation, and we want you to say " Yes", The reasons t= sp » = 3S5^< 3etil the Indians want to keep this resernfation are because i t belongs to us. That's the reason we say " Ho" to you. I will talk.'' the same as on the f i r s t day, and you can talk the sane as r did. Say " Yes" or " Ho", I an not going to give £ p to you. Inspector McLaughlin: Vy friends, it is not for ne to 3ay yes or no benuaee, I have t o l d you, that has been decide* by the Act of Congress. My f r i e n d s , I have heard a l l this before. I an here to get the mind of each and every one of you Indians in regard to t h i s n a t t e r. Uinta Council, 54. Every day, during our councils, I have heard the sane expressions from the same per3or. 3, not exceeding fifteen of you people, while there are present a great many who have not expressed themselves. The anne few individuals have been speaking and they seem to dominate the council and have not allowed other3 to apeak and exprea3 their Tii3h. es. I do not know what the feeling3 are of those who have not yet spoken. I am ready at all times to listen to you express yourselve3, and it is your duty to listen to each other and not interrupt any one who attempts to express hi3 views to this meeting. How remember, ray friends, each one of you nay express himself in regard to the matter. I wish to hear from some who have not thus far spoken. A few of you have monopolised these meetings to the present time. I speak this with the no3t friendly feelings towards all of you, and I hope you will take it as comir. s from one who haa your be3t interests at heart. Appah. We are having council to day. We are just having a talk of what we think. We do not nean ary trouble; we have not anything to get nad at each other for. This Agency down hers is down under the ground now. That is the reason it is so heaiy; this Agency id solid, it is looking after the^ se Streams and the mountains. Everything on thi3 land here, it is holding the reservation line down. That i3 why it is so heavy. The Agency is old; it has been here a long time before the White People came. It is holding down right ablii; that is the rea3on it ia so strong. Ho thing can move that line. That' 3 the reason you cannot throw it away. That's what I say. Sockive: Thi3 Agency- is so heavy it cannot be moved; that's the rea3on the Wnite Men cannot throw it out. This Agency ia guarding all '•-. the 3treams that come down from the mountains. it is guarding the reservation line> That is tha reason thia line is so heavy. Uinta Council, 55. I don't care how big anything ia, it cannot take this line and throw it away. . Are you a stout nan that you can get this line and throw it away? That' 3 the reason I an not going to give this land to you. Say " Yea". Wnat you are talking is not right. Inspector McLaughlin: My friends, I want to tall you people that your Agency will remain just a3 it is. You will have an Agent provided who will look after your interests just as at the present time, and any change that is going to take place will be for the better, as you will have individual allotments. I am not here to take anything from you. I am hero simply to tell you what is provided for by the Act of Congress. My friend3, I think it unneceasar^ t* o repeat % gain what I have toll you so often before, but I will say this legislation is provided for your benefit. The Act of Congre33 gives you to the 1st of June to consent to accepting your allotments, and it is very desirable that you consent to accept them before that date, and I am hers for the purpoaa of obtaining your consent. Remember that after you take your allotments, you will raceive the trust patent, a strong paper, fron the Government, and after you receive that, no one can take your land from you. It passes down to your ehildren and those who cone after you. Your land is exenpt from taxation for a period of twenty- five yeara; so lion can. attach to - it and you cannot sell it for a period of twenty- five years. My friends, if you could only separate the question that is in your minds fron the actual question before you, I do not think you*& ould hesitate long in deciding upon accepting your allotments, Parank: Row we are having a talk before you. You are here to day tell,* Ing this to us. The Indians do not know where this paper was made. They did not see i t ; - t h a t ' s the reason they 3ay they do Uinta Council, 55. not know anything about it. That is what we are talking about now. The Indiana are talking about this reservation line that haa been put here for a long tine, and they cannot understand why it is thrown aside. It was put down a long time ago, before any of these people were born. T'als line is quite heavy. How they are trying to throw it aside. It is 30 heavy that no one can throw it a3ide. They are talking about it now ju3t as they were when it was made here. They think it i3 still running here. That is what they are talking about now. We do not want to throw it to one side. That is what the Indians 3ay. We have aur Agency down here. It Is just the sane as it wa3 before. The paper is in the office down here; it is lying in the office watching the reservation line. It 13 watching the tinber and the water. Rod cap: Our Agency is- here now and has been for a long time. It " la right square ih the middle of the Reservation. The treaty i' 3 here in the office, jt is watching all things around hers. The Agenc^" is* watching all this lani. This Agency has all the streams and the timber here upon the mountains. It knows these mountains and hill3. Look up and you can 3ee them lying around. You cannot take away the3e things; they are right heavy, nobody can take then away, nor lift then,- I don't care how big he is. Are you a right stout nan that you can carry then away? Inspector McLaughlin: 3$ r friends, it i3 my duty to try and enlighten you in this natter,- even if I fail to bring you to believe in the way I would wish to have you look upon it. I want to tell you what many of you do not knowj this reservation never was what is known as a treaty reservation,- It is an executive order reservation. It was established by order of President Lincoln in 1351. President Lincoln set aaida a piece of land here within which no Thite nan was permitted to cone unless authorized by the Governnent. This reservation wa_ 3 not given to you outright, it was simply reseraad Uinta council, 57. PO**= rrett for your U3e , and upon it any other Indians of Utah could " S be located who might be brought here. Large reservations are a thing of the past, and all surplus land3 of Indian reservations will soon be opened to settlement, but the Indians will be assured of their homes' and compensation for the lends opened. I have explained to you people several tines since we have met that the Supreme court of the United States rendered a decissior. on the fifth of January last, nearly five months ago, which gives Congress the power to legislate in regard to Indian reservations without consulting the Indian. It matters not how the reservation was established, whether by treaty or by order of the President of the United States. Under that decision, Congress has enacted legislation which ha3 become a lav: and received the signature of the President which cpen3 your reservation, aa I have explained to you. * S You eeem to be under the impresaion that thia Act is going to take away fron you all your land, but such is not the cas « : Congress has provided that you will receive compensation for all lands out- * Bide of jrcur allotments . The proceeds will go into the Treasury of the United States for your benefit. After you receive your • y& » « r allotments the line which you say is so heavy that it cannot be moved will be obliterated and the surplua land, except 250,000 acres reserved for grazing, will be opened for settlement. You can take your allotments anywhere within your preaent boundary line, but they are to be irrigable land3, that is,- land that can be :-' " watered by irrigation. The 250,000 acres will be reserved as common grazing ground for you people,- that tract is to be located " * south of the Strawberry River,- it cannot be north of the Straw-berry River. After you receive your allotments, the rest is open " for settlement and can be located upon by persons desiring to oone J - into the country. Thi3 land will be taken under the public land laws of the United States. All hone3teaders proving up upon their ' claims will have to pay § 1.25 per acre into the treasury to your credit. Provision ia made by the . ct of ongress that pau are y Uinta Council, 53. to receive your allotments before the reservation is opened. If you consent on or before the first of June you have the selection of such tract3 aa you deaire. If ycu refuse to accept your allotments the Secretary is then directed to cause the allotments to be made to you arbitrarily. " frou can lose nothing by this, my friends, but you will gain many privileges, as I explained ysater » - day, which you do not enjoy while holding your lands in common. I have explained the importance of this question to you time and again( placing it before you in various ways. and have tried to make you understand this simple proposition, and you cannot have failed to understand if you have kept your ears open to what I have said. YOU must no^ think, my friend^, that I an interested In this at all other than desiring to see you benefited, vor your own sake and that of your children, grandchildren, and those who come after ycu, It is your duty to accept thi3 proposition, Sockive: All right. You did not say that thia is not your talk,- you did not say that. That is the reason I do not want you to talk about it. I tell you that I want to keep thia reservation. This is not your talk. I want to keep this land. I do not want you to talk very much about it: j an not going to give you this land. These nen back here all want to keep this land. They are going to ieep it. These men here will not give it to you even If you do ask for it. You are not going to cut this reservation into little pieces. We do not want you to talk about it. This land where our children have grown up,- where our dead ars buried, we don't want to let arry of it go. Tefras: A I- oay these Indians want to keep their land. I like this land. This Congresa that is talking, we do not pay any attention t o Congress can not open thia reservation. Uinta Council, 59. , Sowaonooutt: We h e a r the3e Indians t a l k i n g . Thay say they are not going to give you t h e i r land. Can you hear what they say? If you hear what they say, you want to say " Yes" to what they say to you. We a r e not t e l l i n g you t h i s for fun. This land where we wera bora and r a i s e d , we w i l l keep i t . That is the reason we aay " Ho", we do n o t ^ -^ i t to go t h a t way. We want to keep f t . This is our land. We want a l l the land. We do not say 7/ e would give it to you. We i i keep telling you " Ho". This is not talk for fun either.-. It has been here for a. long time, this Agency, and it is not here for fun either. It i3 holding thia land down. you cannot a3k thi3 treaty in the office any question. That is what is holding this re-servatiini We do not want our reservation cut up in little pieces of land. That is the reason we say " Ho". Happy Jack: i How you are cur friend and we hre having a talk. YO U cone i fron Washington to tell us a whole lot of stuff. You cane here to tell these pscole what they said in Washington. You tell then9I an i I here for that business." They listen to you and they say " yes". They hear what ycu are talking and they tell you what they think about it. Thrcy listen to you when you say, e- " You take your land in allotnent3". That is the reason they are giving you their answer. i They are afraid of the Wnite nan. Wnsn the White Man talks, the Indians are afraid. The Indians understand the Wnite ^ n pretty i well. That is the reason they are talking 30. Yhen the Indians take their land in allotments, they will lose everything they have. I That will not be good. After they lose everything they will be poor. They will not havd anything,- they are afraid of that even if you do say they will be better. These White Men do not like Indians any way. They will get into fights,- they will kill the Indians and lock them in jail3. Wnat you are telling will not be any good for ua he ndians do not want to be shut in. Thay • • - 1 Uinta Council, 60. want it to be 30 they can sr: e a long way on the reservation and travel enerly place. They like to be as they are now, so they can come in and sit down and do what they like. You listen to what they are talking. You tell these Indians hisre what Congress in Washington told pou. I have heard you say that. That's the reason I say as t do now. Inspector ucLaughlin: I have been listening very patiently to your remarks but we do not seem to get any nearer than in our fir3t council. I have the minds of a few of you very clearlj- a3 expressed by individual speakers but I would like to hear from others. APpah: We are having a talk with each other rrow. We are not going to do any harm to each other. We ju3t talk to each other. I an talking good to you. I talk to you " the sane as you talk to us, Columbus: You seem to be Congress. This is where I raise ny horses. Sow I can go ? diere I want and vi3it my friends. I like it now here as I can go where I like and never be bothered by anybody. Am I going to take my horses and drive them like sheep over to that pasture land you are talking about? That is why we will not listen to what you say. We want to keep this land here ourselves. Charlie Sireech: This Agency haa been out here by a good man. The nan that had a big heart and his arm was strong. That is what Captain 3eck aaid. Hobody can break Washington's arm. That is why I listen to what Washington says. That is why I am Washington's b^ y. That' 3 why I want to keep thi3 land. I have been put here by him. He tells me," Stay on this land and grow up on it." He says • vou can do what you want to do." That is what the Indian's are doitjr, now. The Indians here listen to right good talk. r^ Uinta Council, 61. The Agent haa heard it and he said it waa good talk. That's the reason the Indiana are talking. They want to hold thia land. They are not going to do what you want them to do. Inspector McLaughlin: I will ju3t speak a few words more. My friends, there ia one thing that pleases me;- you all apeak well of Washington. Washington ia your beat friend,- your protector. How from your expressions, one would think you would be always ready to do what Washington want3. I am here presenting the wishes of Washington to you. And it is for your good to consider the words of Washington as coning to you for your best interests. He wants you to accept what I have placed before you. Sockive: You tell U3 the same tilings every day. Inspector McLaughlin: I tell you what is true and for your good. You will think nore of me later when you find that I have told you the truth. Little Jin: I am going to talk to you anyhow, even if you have no ears. This reaerration has not been put here for the fun of it. Washington put this reservation here and all other reservations all over thi3 land. This Agency is Washington's thoughts, and it is good. That's the reason you cannot open this reservation. you can Gee this line running here: you know ^ faere the line is. That is there, and you cannot do anything with it. You can take a horse and put him in a good corral and he is still there. He cannot get out. When you have a good corral the horse cannot break out. We have an Agent here. We like that. It makes us geel good. Those aoldiera at the post are do- vn there and we feel good. Txiey are for our protection. This line is right here and the soldiers are watching it. They are down there watching Uinta Council, 62. everyone to see that they do right. Washington 3aid,- " ho one can take any part of thia land I will not allow it." Washington said,- " We will put these Indians on this land and they will b^ the same as one big tribe." I am not saying this for nothing. WOT: you did not know about this treaty so I am telling ycu that now. I know this because I heard Washington tell it. How this land was put h. E2a for the Indians, not for everyone; it was put here for us. That's the reason we want to keep it. We keep it for these young people growing up. We all say we do not want to _ aave the reservation opened, and we do not think you are doing - right. We do not want this land cut up in small pieces. ( Shakes hands with Inspector) Yunbuts: This land here belongs to me. That's the reason I am going to - hold It. I am not going to give it to you. Yo u r talk is only -• .'-• one way, and our talk is another way, and ny talk ia right good. Inspector McLaughlin: I have so far, heard mostly from the White River Indians. I would like to hear from the Uintahs what they have to say. Grant, ( Uinta) I want to talk and will talk now, I have a mind of my own. I think that Congresa should have sent a man out here before this law was paased, to talk with the Indians and have an understanding with then. Thenwe would have got along eaaicr. I do not know •* 0 ' anything about this allotment businsaa and I sit back here and ' '• listen to the two sides. I do not know which way to go. It hurts • • * A ' - OK a whole l o t . They pull me one way and the other, and I don't • krsow which way to stay. I work on ny farm and r a i s e crops. How, ' ' ij « n they come here cutting the land into l i t t l e places i t looks AS though thsy would do me up. That's the reason I do not like 7y - i t . Vhat are my horses going to do when I have only a l i t t le Uinta Council, 65. ^ piece of land? Must I tie my horses in that little field* 7 That's the reason I do not like it Inspector McLaughlin: You have three children; you will get a large piece of land. John Star, ( whits River) I have just cone down from the saw mill where I have been working. I juat got here now. Ycu see me and I see you. My flesh is black: you have good flesh, you are white like thia paper here. My flesh looks like the ground. That's the reason I like this land; ny flesh is like the land. That's the reason I an going to keep it. Why should I gicre it away5 I like it: I was raised here. That's the reason I have got it right in ny heart. I an- pretty well acquainted with the Wnite Man. I know him. #^ The White Men want some tiling all the time. They want everything. They are after thia land and are troubling me all the time. If I ( have cattle ihe White men will come in and drive them off. Then I there will be trouble. That' 3 the reason I will not give it away. ^. re you going to take our land? I want you to say " Ho", whether you afe going to take it or not. I want you to answer ne. Inspector McLaughlin: I am not here for anything for myself at all. I am here to give you the words of Washington. Wapsock: I am not going to talk very much now. who is it I an going to talk to? Is it to you? That paper on your table, is the sane as if it came out of a hole in the ground. That's why the # S Indians are talking as they are about thia. That say3 you are going to open the reservation. I say, " Row are you going to do m it." What 13 the reason for it? 2ow can you open it? I think like this: when the White Men come flocking into thi3 reservation our Agent would keep then back off the land. That's all j am goina- |