Council Transcript dated May 23, 1903

Council Part 2

Uinta Council, 18. as if fenced around with iron and we do not ?/ ant to break it now. It is heavy and we do not want it taken up. v'e do not want to give any of it away. We have an Agent here. They said to our Agent: " You go there and watch for the Irdians." He is the Indian* 3 new Agent. I am not much of a talker, I have seen you before, and I know you. Shatkvith. ( white 7{\ ver Ute) The Indians doulike the opening of this reservation,- not only I, but all the rest here. We do not understand anything about this selling of cur land. Here i3 our cwn reservation line over here. He r s is water running from both ranges of mountains here. That belongs to the Indians. The' Indians here are holding it back because they like it. I do not like thia making ditches over the reservation... Hew are our horsRS going to range? We do not know anything about Selling this land. That is the reason I like it and I am holding it tight. I do not wnnt any of it cut off. The Indians here like it. We need all that country down there for our horuea to graze in, and the horses come to the streams for water. That is the reason I like this land. I do not want to sell it. Gaorge Washington, ( Uinta) I am going to talk now,. I do not talk very much in council. Whenever we council, I do not talk. I just sit and listen.. All the reat of the Iildiar. 3 here have talked in council. The one who al- ays did our talking is not here,- old Chief Tabby. Tabby told me,- " 7/ henever Wnite Men come here to talk about opening the reservation, do not listen." That is the reason I talk now. I am all alone, I have no relations. All I Uinta Council, 19. am thinking of now, is Washangton. My hear., is right. I do what Washing- con wants me to do. Washington told me to put my children in school to get an education, and I did it. I have ny chil­dren in school. Washington says, "" hen your boys grow up, this l^ nd will belong to then.*' But wh- t you tell me scares me I want to die without having blood on me. I came fron away over to this land hare and I like this land. I hold it. I have no money: I am a poor man. I have minerals here in the noun-tains but even if I have, I am poor. That is the reason I talk to vou. I have a father in Washington, but I am oocr. I have no fence running around my farm. What you tell ne here as com­ing from Washington, I am not going to pay any attention to. I do not want to talk about it. That is what I tell you now. We will let it go and let Washington do what they wish. Warren, ( Uinta) My friend, I am the only old man now, ail the othei old men are dead: This land is what I an keeping for myself. We are keeping thia water for ourselves. We are holding on- tc this land. Prom the top of the mountains streams are running both ways. The other side belong3 to the White Han. This country near the Du­chesne we are keeping for ourselves> This wood we are keeping for ourselves. We have corrals ail over the mountains here: | p^ that is where w e brand our horses. My friends came up here with me and there are not many of us left. Here in this land , re our relatives and children covered over with earth. That is 7hat makes this land so heavy. Tabby, the chinf of our land is thore. I have heard somebody tal2< ever s nee I grew up: now I am an old mm . There are children on this reservation. I am aid Uinr. a council, 20. That is the reason I have this reservation here. I am not going to give it up to the White Man. It is not buckskin or iter's hide, and I do not. want to sell it# I do not want any of this land to be given up. I have it in my grip and I do not want to sell it. Here is the school fi - led- with children. They will grow up soon, and the land will belong tc them. They will have homes over the reservation. I don't want to be afraid of anything on thia reservation. Red Cap. ( White River Ute) This Agency is here ar. i. it w . s not put here for nothing. •^ There are a lot of agencies but there is only one Washington. Thi3 reaeewation i3 heavy. The Indians have grcrm here and their bones are under the ground, covered over with earth. That is the reason it is so heavy. Those people in Washington, they shake ny hand, but they do not want ne to throw my hands away. My heart is straight. The Indians have understood what they have heard, and they hold this reservation, and they do not want any of it cut off. We want thia reservation line to be just as it is. I hold it for my children, and I don't want to part wdth it. I isave heard talk about selling before. How that you have come here I am go­ing " to talk,. as. nv father, Chief Tabby. is dead. We do not like your talk about throwing it open. How is it that we lose our re­servation line? Where is it gone? I want everything on thi3 re- •^^ servation to be good and I don't want everyone coming in here, ' ' The reason I am talking so is because I am on the land here, ' which as been surveyed cut for us. There is the Price road; it io the gate of this reservation. I do not want any kind of people to come ' * in oh this reservation. Wnat you said about alloting this land I Uinta Council, 21. do not like that, Big Joe. ( Uinta) What the Indians say is that they want to hold this re3ervatio: That is the truth. They all want to keep it. We want to keep it for the children in school. It i3 here they are going to live after a while. That is the reason we do not want the reserva­tion to be opened. This ha3 been in ay mind a long time and I knew it was coming. The way it i3 now, the Indians can go where they like. That i3 good, and we want it'to be thajj way. Every­thing is good now, the way it i3. Here is our wood'on the moun­tains. I understand why it i3 that you are here. I was talking to my father in Washington. The Commissioner told me about it. We talked to each other. At the time when "\* s were talk^ n-. I asked the Commissioner '' How many ars there of you?" I want to find out how many there are of you. The Commissioner 3aid , BWaat is the matter with your reservation? You have a line running on you** reservation and it cannot be changed." I heard all the Com­missioner had to say. Black ^ awk,( Uinta) I have listened to 7/ hat you have said to these people. I can understand some of ' hat you say my3elf. I do not like it. After you allot the land and sell it, I do not like that. I have no sense, and I know it, I just play witn thia land, but when I had money, I threw it away. I am here on this land. That i3 what holds me up. I do not want you to steal it from me. I do not know anything about the Secretary or the Commissioner or In­spectors, and I do not know about any of thia. Uinta council, 22. Bbenezar ( 7/ hite River) That is all right. These fellows here are holding their re­servation. It is ths truth. I have " neer. put on this reservation here. They tell me," You raise what you want to eat." and I do that. Washington says that, and I do what Washington tells me to do. I put the children in school. This i3 my land. I am holding thi3 wood back to burn. Thase 3trea^ a of water here, I am holding them. We want them all. These Agency buildings be­long to Washington. I am on thia reservation; and I do not 7/ ant this land thrown open. Inspector McLaughlin. How my friends, I have listened to you and ^. vnry word has passed into ny ears. Every thing that you have said, and every­thing that I have 3aid Is recorded by the stenographer here, and one copy will go to Washington where it will be read by the Secre­tary and Commissioner, aid one cop;/ will be left with your Agent, for future reference as required. Thi3 i3 a transcript of all that was said yesterday a3 recorded here.( Holds up transcript of first day* s council) Wnat each of U3 aaid i3 here. How my friends, I have listened patiently to what pour speak­ers said. I want to say a few words in reply, and hope that I will not be interrupted until I conclude. Wnen I get through, I will be glad to hear any of you speak again. I have listened at­tentively to what your speakers said and I want to explain some things which seem cloudy in your minds. 7/ hil- I am surprised to find you so united in your opposition to the Act of Congress I am at the same time, glad to hear you express your opinions . I Baid to you yesterday that we must be patient with each other - I with you, you with me, 30 that you will understand everything r^ Uinta council, 23. the Secretary wishes to convey ,> o you.. A number of you speakers have said that you do not like my word3. My words to pnu have loeen truthful. If I had presented the natter differently or in any other way I would not have been stating to you what I was del- - ' egated to say. If I said things pleasing to your ears which . were not truth3 the Secretary vrould be very much displeased with me. How ay friends, the statements of your speahhrs have convinced me that you do not understand what I have said. Prom your speeches **\ you are evidently laboring under a mistake by. thinking that I an bore to negotiate an agreement with you people. You seem to be impressed with the belief that I am sent here to make a treaty. ... with you for the opening of your reservation. You lose sijht of the fact, or do not understand, that thi3 which I present to you ' ' is already a law of Congress. I am here to submit this law to you and explain every feature of it that you may understand, so that you may consent to take your allotments. One of your speak­ers said that every Indian tribe in this country had a reservation. That was formerly the case, but is not so now. There are now many former reservations that have been opsned and the Indiana have taken their land in severalty and live like white men in ever-" respect. They have homes and farm3 and they can go to the polls f^ and vote for Congressmen and county officers ju3t as the white men do, " Where that condition ha3 been brought about we find the Indians have advanced more rapidly; they have become like their . white neighbors in almost every respect. How you are about to meet that condition on your reservation. Your reservation is going to be opened ' under similar conditions that governed the reservations in the Indian Territory, Oklahoma and elsewhere. Uinta council, 24. I was on the Kiowa and Comanche reservation laat Winter and the Indians have started just as you are going to atart here next year. Thoae people were just a3 much oppoaed to the new order of things in the beginning as you are, but you could not new get any of then to voluntarily return to the old conditions. They have railroads bringing markets at their doors for everything they have to sell. The same order will obtain here as soon aa whitea begin to settle in the country and your lands will enhance in value. Some of my friends here said if you take small farm3 you will have no land on which to grase your stock. Remember if you accept your allotments you have the choosing of your own location and you can select land having water; a field of ten acres of alfalfa will subsist more stock than five- hundred acres of these barren lands of yours. You could raise all you want for your subsistance on your farms, and remember that besides thia Congress givo3 you 250,000 acres for grazing. How ay friends, from the life you have led in the past, I do not wonder that you look unfavorably on this proposition because you do not understand it. I an pleased with the frank manner in which you have expressed yourselves in opposition to it, for it enables me to try and convince you by discussion that the accept­ance of the provisions of the Act is for your best interests. Sow knowing your attitude in the matter, aa expressed by your speakers, it i3 ray duty to try and convince you by sound reasoning so as to bring you to understand the importance of your accepting allotments. Dearly all of your speakers said that you wished to do what Washington says; that you do not want to do anything against ) Uinta council, 25. what Washington wishes. Ronember I now bring you a message from Washington. That message is for your best interests. Remember the President of the United States has a great many people to think for. fie has his red children and his white children. He is the head and the general director, and he has a cabinet among whom ia the Secretary of the Interior, who has charge of land matters and Indian matters. How the act of the Secretary is tine ac: of the President in matters a33igned to him, and Congresa is tile great J* l council, the assembly of the representatives of the people. They make the laws and the President mu3t execute tho3e laws. All legislation enactad by the great council must be signed hy the President, after that it becomes the law of the country. It then devolves upon the President, becomes his duty, to execute : hat law. Under thia law which I read to you yesterday, the Secretary of the Interior is directed to send an Inspector to you to explain this matter of taking your allotments. If you consent on or before the first of June, next, to accept your allotmant3 you will have the choice of your land3. If your consent is not obtained at that tine or before, the land will be alloted nevertheless. How my friends, these are the words which you say you dont like. It is true though and it is my duty to tall you. The Secretary has ^ been directed to explain to you through an inspector and I am here for that purpose. Remember my friends, that the Secretary and the Commissioner are very much interested in your welfare. They will do anything they can to advance your interests, and this being the law it is your duty to comply with it gracefully. By accepting, and thu3 showing your good will, it not only strengthens Uinta Council, 26. you with the Department, but Congress a3 well. My friends, your holding the reservation as in the paat is out of the question. As certainly aa the sun rise3 to- morrow i& i3 to be opened. How, the Secretary o$ the Interior, as a friend of the Indiana. desire3 to have ^ h in » 3 made a3 easy for you as pos-sible. How, it is your duty to listen to reason and t- 3 the argu­ments which I have presented. Remember that our talk must be with no hard feelings. We must have our di3cu3sion in a friendly nanner. I make this explanation to you because I see your lalk has been all along one line. As I said yesterday, I do not want to hurry you. I want to give you ample time to consider, and I hope you will not close your ears to what I bring you from the Secretary, the Act of Congress which he is required to comply with and carry out. Red Cap. If you are telling U3 about this talk in Washington , let me talk there in Washington about it. Inspector McLaughlin: This is my letter of Instructions from the Secretary of The Interior and the Ccmnissicr. er of Indian Affairs, ordering me to come out here. I read it to you yesterday. Bed Cap: That is all right. I want you to take me to Washington. I want to take Chepeta and Charley Galota there too. Inspector McLaughlin: They are Uncompaghres and have nothing to do with this busi­ness. A delegation to Washington could not accomplish anything at this time, this being already an Act of Ccngrc33 and a law. Uinta Council, 27. Thi3 haa already been decided and cannot be changed. If a delegation wa3 sent to Washington it would be only three or four persons with an interpreter, which would be only three or four of you people and all have an equal voice in this natter. It re­quires the signatures of a majority of you Uinta and White River bands to have the consent of you people'acceptable to the Depart­ment. Tim Johnson: Your talk is not Washington talk. It ' is the Secretary* s talk. I have heard the Secretary talk',' and I know what he talk3, and your talk ia just like his , but it is not Washington* B talk. Inspector " cLaughlin: What does Tim Johnson mean by Washington? If he means the President, I told you a while ago, that the Secretary of the Inte­rior is Washington in so far as Indian natters are concerned. The Secretary represents the President in Indian natters. Your going to Washington would not accomplish anything with the Depart­ment. The Secretary and Indian Commissioner would tell you just what I have told you here. Remember my friends, that the Secre­tary of the Interior is represented here by me in thia natter and is the sane as present while I am here on this duty under'his instruc­tions. I am hi3 nouthpiece , eyes, and ears while' in the field under hi3 orders. In having been a33igned to this duty, any­thing you agree upon with ne is the same aa if you agreed with the Secretary, jU3t the sane as though you made an agreement with the President of the United State3. liy action in ail individual cases of ihi3 character to • which I am assigned is the same as if the Secretary of the Interior was pr- sent. He delegates to ne Uinta Council, 28. certain powers in all cases to which he assigr. 3 me, and I am under special instructions in each instance by which I must be guided. My friend3, notwithstanding that you have spoken in opposition to what T have presented tc you, I am very much pleased that you have taken part in thi3 discussion. Your speeches have been very cour­teous and your attitude friendly. A3 we have taken up much time thi. 3 afternoon, I think we had better adjourn till the same hour to morrow at hhich we met to day. Shatkwitch: The White River Indians are all coming here tomorrow. Inspector McLaughlin. That is 7. aat I wish. I want all of you to come here and take part in this discuasion. Shatkwitch: We will stay all day, every man till dark; we will talk with­out stopping to eat or sleep. Inspector McLaughlin: I will stay with you. I have the welfare of you people so much at heart that I want you to understand what is for your bene­fit and best interests. Your Agent will furnish rations in order that you . v. ay remain here at the Agency. Remember any time yon wish to see me I will come to you and answer your questions. There is one thing I wish to say: you have too many speakers. Remember I say this for your good. As two hours at a tine in our joint councils is long enough, your council should got together and select a few of your best speakers to present your conclusions. It would be better in that way and will prevent confusion. I was recently among the Chippewa3 in Minnesota where there , thirteen Uinta Council, 29. hundred and forty belonging on the reservation, and they appointed five 3psaker3 to do the talking in our councils, and it simplified the work and made everything very pleasant and satisfactory to the Indians, I would suggest that you 3eiect such speakers to night from among your Icadi rg men. Tim Johnson: Wnat you tell ua to con? and talk here for two hours at a time is good. The Indians have a council for themselves. They will keep on talking and it nay be a month before they have done. They see you are their friend, and they are going to do as you say. After a while, when they get through talking, you will sent the writing to Washington. They will read it in Washington and say, " That is the way they talk out there." They will know the Indians do not want the reservation opened. When the Indians tell you they do not want the reservation opened and do not like what you told them, that is the truth. Inspector McLaughlin: I wish to say in reply to my friend, Tim Johnson.' a remark that I know the Indiana, when they say they do not like my talk, do not mean by that that they are unfriendly to ma, but don't like the question which I present. But remember that Congress made this law, and the Secretary is directed to execute it and he has sent me out here to explain it to you people. That i3 all I have to do with it. The Secretary knows that I am a good friend to the Indians, else he would not have 3ent me to you people. As I told you yesterday, and as your friend who has your interest at heart, I hope you will see the wisdom of consenting to accept Uinta Council, 30. your allotments under the provisior. a of this Act, and as desired by the Secretary of the Interior and all friend3 of the Indiana. My frienda, talk thia over among yourselves and meet me here again at two o'clock tomorrow afternoon. Council adjourned at 5- 30 p. m. Council reconvened at 2- 30 p.. m.. Wednesday, May 20th, with 121 Indiana in attendance. ^• hn Reed, interpreting. Inspector McLaughlin: Ky frienda, we have met again according to appointment. I an ready , t° hear anything you have to say. You have bean cour. ciling among yourselves, I presume, and I am ready to answer any questions you may wish to have answered. Tim Johnson: I have no other way to talk. This land belongs to ne and I am going to keep it. There ha3 been a line run around this re­servation and I do not want it broken. I am not telling thia for nothing. I tell it to you for the truth. It is a small piece of land I have here, and I am going to hold it. I am not .. going'to give it up to White lien or anyone el3e. Inspector McLaughlin: I^ y friend, I supposed from the explanation I made that it was plain to you- that it is not for you to say whether this reservation is to be opened or not. I have tean sent out here to explain that « md obtain your consent to accept allotments. I have alsp explained • several tinea to you that the Secretary £ 3 required under the Act of Congress to carry out this law. Prior to a short time ago, Indians were consulted in regard to opening their reservations. J 1 ( 1 - J Uinta Council, 31. But under a decision of the Supreme Court five months ago, Congres3 may legislate in regard to opening the surplus lands of the Indian reservations without consulting the Indians. How mqr friends, with the best possible feelings towards you, I wish you to understand this matter as coming, from the Secretary through me, that it is for your very best interest to consent to the Act of Congress and take your allotments. How, ny friends, it is useless to discuss thia matter further on the line of arguments you have been making. rt is not for vou to sav whether your reservation will be ooer. ed or not. AH that is to be decided by you is v/ hether you are will-leg to accept your allotments or not. Do not lo3e night of the feet that the reservation is to be opened. That you have to decide is* ° ihat way ia be3t. If you do not consent before„ the 1st of June the Secretary is authorized to make the allotments anyhow. My friends, I see you have a wrong idea as your speaker? appaar • fco voice. " I am not here to ask ;>- our consent to the opening of your reservation, but only.; as to the taking of your allotnents. That is the question for you to discuss and determine. Sockive. How did they take this land? Who gave them authority to take ', It? i* s Inspector McLaughlin: I have explained that a dozen times. Tt was by Act of Con­gress. The great Council passed the law. Sockive: • • - Does this land belong to Congress? Uinta Council, 32. Inspector McLaughlin. It belong3 to the Government, except what you take in allot­ments. Sockive: You are telling whht is not true. I am not going to jive up this land. Inspector ncT, aughlin2 3t is all tine same to me. la does not take a farthing out of my pocket or put one in my pocket rhether you consent to this Act or not. But I am advising you to accept it for your best intrr-fists. Sockive: Bven if it is right, still wa are going to put i$ aside. You don't cone here for nothing. I do cot believe you are here in the interest of Washington. That's the reason we are going to put it aside. Inspector McLaughlin: I have sufficient proof here. Sockive: You have papers, hut I have no papers I have a heart, and ny heart is here. Inspector McLaughlin: Yes; and I have a heart, and it is for you people here that I am thinking. Sockive: You have your papers in your tockets and everywhere Where * is Eiy paper? I have no pap? r. you are a m; ui and you see me hare. '. I want you to listen to me I have no papers to explain Uinta Council, 33. everything to you. If they said that it is all right but I an going to throw it aside. I am not going to give up this land. This land I travel over. We like this land and we are going to keep it. Our line, we do not lose that; we can't change it. This line runs here and we dont want it changed..- ThiiJ land be­longs to the Indiana and we are not going to give it to you. T have not t?/ o heart3, I have but one; I have not two moughs, I have but one. I am not going to talk any different. I am telling you the truth just as you say you are telling me the truth. Inspector McLaughlin: I wish all you people to listen attentively to what I an go­ing to say. Your last speaker here seems not to understand what I have been telling you during the three days you have been with me. You seem to think thai, this is my doing. My talk seems to be displaa3ing to you, but I have told you the truth and every wor2. I say is based upon the Act of Congreaa. Remember ny friend3, every man in this country is subject to the laws of the country and it is not only our duty but we are obliged to comply with the la--?. Every good citized will accept the law. To say that I come out here telling untruths is very unkind. This matter has been publish­ed for weeks all over the country and every person that reads knows it. The newspapers have said that the Secretary was go-p. ing to send an inspector to explain thia to you and obtain ; yam-consent to the Act. J* y friends, I do not blame you for your attitude in this nat­ter as, from your talk, you evidently think you have the right to say whether or not the reservation shall be opened. But I an here for the purpose of convincing you to the contrary and to nake Uinta Council, 34. it clear to you. I tell you there will never be another treaty made with Indiana in regard to the disposal of their surplus lands. Since the decision of the Supreme Court, all surplus Indian land will be opened by Act of Congress, which will provide for compensa­ting the Indians from the proceeds realized from the sale of their lands opened. I explained : tiu- i to you yesterday that in the past, when there were not 30 many people, in the country, large reservations were possible where the TndianJhad the privilege to roam and hunt. I told you that through immigration passing west­ward from the Atlantic Ocean in the east and from the Pacific Ocean in the west, the land has become ver;'- 3carce so that all surplus lan'd3 of Indian reservations will soon be opened'to settlement as has been done in numerous case3 already. E « y friends , you want to get rid of this idea that you have the say whether your reservation can be opiened or not. You are sim­ply to say whether or not you will accept allotments. The survey for your reservation is already advertised for. The work will commence in a few months. After the survey is completed, allot-ifisnts will ba made. If you consent to accept allotments you have the selection of your own location, and you will have the choicest tracts. If not, under the law, the Secretin- is obliged to allot tracts to each and every onn, 80 acres to each head of a family, and 40 to each other member. These allotments must be irrigable land, and in addition to your allotments you will have 250,000 acres set apart for grazing purposes. This 13 the condition, my friends^ and it is your duty to accept it gracefully because the law of the great council has said so. And it is the- duty of the S- crstary and of the other officials of the Department to see Uinta Council, 35. that the law is complied with. I hope for your own sake and the v/ elfare of your children and those who are to come after you that you will look at this natter in a sensible light. As I said yesterday, I know very well that this being a new departure, some­thing new, you are suspicious of it and very reluctant to act upon it and slow to consider it. Tim Johnson; I want you to sit down and listen to what the Indians have to say: they want to talk. Inspector McLaughlin: I know that if they tqlk along the lines they have been talk­ing up to the present tine it is of no use to listen to them, I am going to sit tiown when I am through with what I have to state. I wiaa to say though, that if they talk in the same strain they have been talking, it ia useless to continue our councils longer. If they want to diseuaa this matter in a aen3ible and reasonable way, I am here for that purpose, but as to whether or not the re­servation is to be opened up to settlement is not the question, and it is useless for U3 to discuss that further because that question has already been settled by Congress. The reservation will cer­tainly be opened and it only remains for you to decide aB to whether you will consent to accept allotments or not. Uinta council, 36. Happy Jack. ( Uinta.) That's all righti that's good. You are talking to your frienda; your friends are talking to you. You are a friend to us ; we are friends to you. "^ e are talking together to have an understanding. . The people in Washington that talk about this reservation dont like Indians, I have been all over the country here among the whites. I have been their towns and white people dont like me. I am of a different color from them. When I walk down Main Street they say " Watch that Indian; he. will be taking something." They tell the police to keep an eye on me. That's the reason the Indians do not want white people to cone here and take their land. I do not think it will be that way , , anyway. After the white people come in here it would not be very long till we would be all gone. They will say " We took your land , now v/ e will take your house; so you get off this land; go to some other country an d find some other place." That is the reason the3e Indians feel bad over this business. All over the country the whits people dont like Indians. The land where the white nan's to?/ ns are, belonged to the Indians at one time. That's the reason we cant come to any understanding. These In­dians do not understand what you are talking about and you dont understand what they mean. The white man knows the Indians have something on the reservation. They are all trying to see who will come in first and racing with one another to get in first. Inspector McLaughlin. Happy Jack raised a question which is a very good one. Remember my friend3, I will take nothing you say as offeree. You will respect me later when you find that my words h?, ve all been Uinta council, 57. truths; and if we ever meet again in after years, you will say that my talk in the3e councils was straght. Happy Jack raised the question that white men would come in and take your allotments away from you. I will explain that. This is a great benefit which you people would derive by taking allotments, for the reason that the government gives you a trust patent for your land holding your allotment in trust for you for twenty- five yeara. During the trust period of twenty- five yeara your land is exempt from taxes while the white people around you have to pay taxes on their land. During that time no person can dispute your right to your g^ allotment or trespass upon it, and the allotee cannot sell his land till the trust period expires in twenty- five years. That is for your protection to secure your allotments. Then the pro-ceeds of the sale of the unallotsd surplus lands of your reser­vation goes into the treasury to your credit to be expended for your benefit in the discretion of the Secretary. My friends I am here to listen to you and to talk to you and try to enlighten you in this matter, and apart from being the rep­resentative of the Secretary in this matter, I am here as your friend to do the best I possibly can for you. Therefore I trust that our discussions will be friendly and no hard feelings will arise between us. It will not be on my part I assure you0 Parank. ^ I do not uhderstand anything about this paper. I am an In­dian. I dont understand anything about papers. Wnat you said about their talk there in Washington, I am afraid of that. I dont know anything about this, and I dont know what it i3 to have a little piece of land cut off. ^ at will I do when I get in theie Uinta council, 33. on that little piece of land? When I get on that little piece of land I think I cannot go anywhere, cannot see anything. It will be just as when it is cloudy and raining, you cannot see anything; it will be that way when I get on this peice of land; that is the reason I dont like it. "' hen the sun is up I can see all around. I an not in the habit of talking in council. I tell you the truth. I an talking because we have a line around the reservation . This agency was built in the middle of this reservation long ago, I think the paper i3 in the office down there and it cannot be lost. If they throw it into the fire it would not get hurt, they will keep it. If it lays in one place it does not get old. Thia reservation line is run all round; the iron posts are along the reservation that make the reservation line. That is the reason I talk because I like it. The white chief made this reservation. Inspector McLaughlin. This speaker has brought up a very good question. His re­marks have brought up something which I will explain. He seems to labor under the impression that when a man takes his allotment he is confined to that tract of land that is allotad to him. My friends, when you take your allotment you are deprived of no privileges you have at the present time but other privileges are ^^ gained through the allotment. The tract of land alloted to you is your own individual tract of land. You can cultivate that piece of l3nd if you de3ire or you can lease it to seme person by approval of the Department, which is always granted, There are a good many Indians living on the rental of their allotments. n Uinta council, 39. The Department requires Indians to cultivate at lea3t a portion of their allotment and they can lease the rest. As I told you yesterday the Kiov/ as, 3omanche3 and other Indians were just as much opposed to opening their reservations as you are today to this ehange; but you could not get one of t. iem now tc go " oack to the old way of living, they are so well pleased with the new con­ditions. Red Cap. I do not like the things you say to me atall. All your ( T\ talk is like dark night. My talk to you I want to be like day­light. This agency has bean here by Washington. It is here and you cannot change it. This agency is holding dov/ n all the streams here. It is holding the mountains and the timber. This belongs to the Tnite River chief Sowawick. The line is laid around this land and there is no one who can cone in upon it. They cannot break it nor crawl through it. I talk to you and what you are talking is no good. Thats all. Appah, I am going to talk to you today about this busineas that you are here for. We are going to talk now when the sun is in the West. We are talking here in our agency house and you say you are a friend to us and you are talking this unpleasant business f 1 here. Here are my young men around us. They are here and you white people should be my friends. How we are talking what we chink to each other. Here is our chief, my father. Our agent here, Cs. pt. Mercer, is my father. The agency is down there and he is holding it down, I an not poor 2' et; I have a father at the agency. This land here where I an talking belongs to him. Uinta councils, 40. I am not living on this land through 25ES5 a lie. What you are telling here I cannot understand. I understand this agency and this reservation that I live on. My friend tells ne about this Washington. My boy is living on thia reservation. I dont want people coning here to Bettle thia land. They cannot cone and Settle it » Wnen they talk that way . ve dent understand what they are talking about. Thia is a big thing here and they can­not steal it. They cannot steal it by a lie. I dont like it. What I em telling you is the'truth. I an " hot telling you thia for any joke. Even if you do say that. I do not believe it. r* • - I do not want you to steal Washington's mouth. You are a good man. What you are. talking may be truth. The agent here never came in'' here with a lie either. Capt. Joe. ' Sa. e reaaon these Indians are talking is, if Congress did thia they do not like it. They dont understand this paper. They dont know how to read if the;' did understand it. You are talking, we are listening. We donTfeel hurt through you at all. They are wondering why they talk that way in congresa. We never heard it before. We do not like for them to cone and steal our land. This land here belongs to us - all this land here. Hot only Congress knows about this reservation, but all white people, that this reservation belongs to us. We havB a school- house here and our children are going to school. When our father talks to us we do not say " Ho, no". The Indians say that even if Congresa did say that they dont want them to take this land because it belongs to the Indians. Even if they did say that thia land is to be ./ i . a p^ Uinta Council 41, taken away we do not want it to go. If they do say that we want then to drop that talk, we don't want 3hed any blood about it. We don't want you to get mad about it, you are our friend and we want you to say " all right, my brother". These Indiana do not understand all the white man is doing. I do not know how many years this reservation ha3 been here; it may be thirty years since this belonged to ua. I don't want the white man to drive us on little farm3. I don't like for white nen " to talk hardto us . Everything will go smooth, there will be no hard feelir. ga. That is what all the Indians say. Sowsonocutt: This man tells the truth: they like thia land. They want to ^ N keep it. They are not here for nothing. This land has been bought. That's the reason we do not wdTht the white men to take it. The land belongs to me, I do not like for then to come here and talk to ne about that. That makes ne scared when ycu are talking here. Tho Indiana have their stock running over this land; that is the reason they like to hold it. Even if the white nan does say he is going to take this land I an not going to give it to him. This land was bought, I bought it. Terras, The way thess men are talking I like that. Our children are on thia reservation and all our thinga are here. The reason I am talking is becauae I have my living here. Wedo not want to go the way that nan is talking in Washington. y* 1 Unca3am, I want to know what you are talking about. . You are talking I about allotments. That is not good, I do not like it. I am tell­ing that to you. This land the Indians do not want to sell. They do not want anybody coming to cut this land.