Cal McPhie, Salt Lake City, Utah: an interview by Joe Arave

Transcript (28 pages) of interview by Joseph Arave with Cal McPhie, former operator of Little Mountain and Gorgoza ski areas, on August 19, 1991. This interview is no. 387 in the Everett L. Cooley Oral History Project, and tape no. U-1427

McPhie talks about the eighteen years he owned and operated Little Mountain Ski Area, where he introduced such innovations as lights for night skiing, using a snow packer, grooming slopes, and planting long crested wheat to protect the slopes during summertime. McPhie also discussed his plans for a multiple-use facility at Gargoza which he managed 1968-1972. Interviewer: Joe Arave

CAL McPHIE | UNVERSTY e OF UTAH EVERETT MARRIOTT LIBRARY SALT LAKE CITY. UTAH 84112 L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION Date YaeaAD /7 I 19 willingly ?/ to scholarly contribute the my Library testimony of the recorded University on o of Utah to be purposes. Open Usable and usable with the after my following review. restrictions: (0l I cazhl = Interviewee yugify S AT L Interviewer b used for Salt CAL McPHIE Lake City, An Interview Joe Utah Ski Archives Tape No. 19, University Lake History U-1427 Marriott Salt By Arave Oral August Utah 1991 Library of City, Utah Utah Project Table August 19, Tape #1: Work at Little of Contents 1991 Alta Mountain Operations Alternate and Structures Uses 15 Gorgoza Multiple Selling 10 1S Use Out; Facility Current 22 Recreation 25 THE FOLLOWING IS AN INTERVIEW WITH MR. CAL MCPHIE. THE DATE IS AUGUST 19, 1991. THE INTERVIEWER IS JOE ARAVE AND THE PROJECT IS THE UTAH SKI ARCHIVES. [TAPE #1.] JA: Well, to little start bit out of with, Mr. background McPhie, let’s information. get Where a were you went to, born? CM: Salt Lake. JA: Can CM: 119P8 JA: Okay. I ask what Do you elementary in CM: Salt Yeah, born and JA: and and then went went and when I discharged. When did was you stayed youngster, did No, I took up and I skied Lou Lorenz cars and we’d first you the on you where got most and ski then you lived your we I the got time. Sunday out went as from into 1946 a skied of Then or--? the I our service got tied turns were out the and as an nothing adult as up with Alta. experiences service Jordan until ski skiing of to I first taking at and graduated and that started every went I you friends of side, submarines Did after west High. were have skiing the service the skiing? you Alta with your West first--what with on school, into and after schools high, to submarines So the raised grade then acquaintances CM: of junior Riverside Junior, JA: some school, was to that recall Lake? I went year? a CAL MCPHIE #1 youngster? CM: Yes. JA: So CM: Yes. JA: So CM: No, you were after I we JA: the knew to while at Alta. on we Did war, Lou started lines discharged you you meet Lou West High, just see each other on were then skied ’467? at we So did in we skiing? casually. the waiting for started pairing slope them to up, But or in open and then the the gate from then together. just decide that skiing looked like a fun activity? CM: Yeah, JA: Decided CM: Being JA: How did and when do EM just something. to pick single and things did I then up? having go you something Well, it a good time. from there, did first decide that you might for Alta for one like this? went to work you ski with Lou, want to whole season. JA: In what CM: Lift worked one of of the and the the capacity? next spring best for there I worked operator. season, I sort the spring--or season. experiences 2 My one full following experience I’ve ski ever had season there with-- was CAL MCPHIE #1 especially by Fred Alta in the Speyer. ski ski business, Fred, lifts, but of because course, there was I was the taught head better of wasn’t a how to maintain them safe. My roommate at Alta was snow come down the teacher around. JA: Teacher in GME: How to operate how to make that time JA: Okay, so @M= Yes, in ranger terms them the and pretty were at living the for JA: Oh CM: Had a ball. JA: One of my EM: His favorite up and at at with Alta? Atwater Monty used all of to the crew, the 1lift night. every hearts bitch play there Monty time. dinner we’d and Sasaki-- bunkhouse, there crew, lifts, Buck you night really? favorite he closed but CM: Monty. were Oh some ski have we’d to used Who us marry the as long as at girls road the divorce a get to of any dating could he that was course, of once it the was was (laughter) opened. JA: were could lodge, games. saying, we win. we’d Usually if us marry the ski was every of--? say saying. famous I guess I after those experiences. times. business old a that yeah, fun that? was 3 really got the Those bug for CAL MCPHIE #1 JA: What years were ECVE That would be 1950 I a had oh, I’ve JA: It wasn’t CM: No, that @M He had last Mel the CM: 1950. partner, name, but came was We spent boot ‘48. Then Mountain in from Mel-- name. maker? and I I originator wish Then was I of could Ray burned Little remember sold out at out to the Mel’s Mel end and of my our lights ski area think we ever have they a it. building. In putting hit us. At that time were tows same weren’t were, for I if cat too for in the snow door heat was generators and our the skiing. the We on have didn’t guess, night packing. common 4 I right, recall the we by a the power, run all lights have snow We way. own our on it fact, were generate and Built we also, were evenings rebuilding the rope ever to the and to the in year snows our and coal season? summer Sundays had we first the that big the your bigger, early Yeah, last anyway. and bit power, JA: Little original me. year little to buy and season. Saturdays as to ‘47 Watrous. a first What ski Ray to about his was--the sold JA: chance was OhiNelcay:: probably forgotten Mountain JA: those? had ’50s. first first I area bought-- CAL CM: MCPHIE We #1 bought company their this use one our back personnel. interested in Evanston?" I "Four from--we area One of buying said, hundred and used for the one we’ve "Well, how much was built at had a steering wheel out it. Had a wheel passenger, used to the would pack ever by Walker tried CM: No, it start a with was the on some way. right then cat in we twice went said, was a four at the college with a a and had track on four we then were and ski handles, threw on the away and we first year that we the guys that really ones were asked first come over with a before they ever had company So he made that--one I guy Walker but it, around He snow a Hit: mining mid-winter, it?" anyway be at was we you the to it, out for It from So original--the in a of of for with forgot got it So there. tour the it, "Would front levers City, idea in right. Park original it and I orfanyEhing Somebody in slope in cat, heater pulled that. take JA: the Wallace--one to SN just our do and a left and to cat had pull ski inside Logan telephone purposes is dollars." that the said, this fifty let training guys passenger big to in should in the 5 probably? that had the the trip over the fall of say, spring about again. involved was Wallace there the year, January, So we and walked CAL MCPHIE all #1 over JA: What CM: I JA: Was CM}- I JA: Yeah, CM: You the year can’t whole would that remember it late would have been? it. ‘'50s? imagine they see, place. just started we ran before in ‘64 Little Park or City started. ‘63. Mountain for about eighteen years. JA: Okay, now fellow, you and what CM: It JA: 50 CM: That’s JA: How CM: Well, this Ray store down on me would bought that when a all with Lou’s (@8 He JA: You and say Yous=2 I the Watrous, 17th was South to you this Mel recall? operate was and the 17th about and Lou Lorenze to buy it, and Paid the it. to buy it? originator, East, selling it, had and he told out. So I my first, lent me we did it on interest and paid nothing the bill, handshake. great guy though, are still very the do opportunity who thinking handshake. a that, started about money a was from it. first about initial but bought hear Mel him year Mountain 1950. we you that JA: in you did asked my be Little tows, how he’s good many that type. friends. tows were up there when a CAL MCPHIE #1 CM: We had two JA : The @M= Yeah, JA: Oh CM: Yes. JA: What sort @M Just by JA: Just grab on? CM: Yeah, we never tow rope was one tows 500 inch that were 500 feet long. feet? manilla rope. really? tore a JA: Where @M It’s of handle arrangements did you have? gloves. lot was on sold gloves. (laughter) of holes out the exact location the summit of But we sure gloves. between of Little Parley’s Mountain? and Emigration Canyon. JA: Okay. CM: Just 500 feet fun times we night all long. have the I would ski to critique. uniforms on them time, practice One of they to to doing ski." and meet times all the I (laughter) I other So that the nicest it would come had did guys, or would would of think all they turn people here?" (laughter) be, They a particular the one instructors Mountain good think say, was was was go and say, "They a are real there like "Well, Little different they something most Wednesday to their or for would that. what are learning ball. a how CAL MCPHIE #1 JA: How CM: Strictly JA: Up CM: No, JA: you up get the to so not majority--I road open it open from though. If they it from they did keep it open, cars coming Now, when from you weekends nights lift and a night dollar and ninety-six a was those days? half. We in JA: Wow ! CM: From 7:30 arms in Now, what kind were electric until a of had think they did but you I think would get course. did you rides and just and part-time some they operate holidays. business. for a kids day pass get as It I fifty it mean cents was high a as a night. 10:30 Lake had all? ever Sundays dollar at they times, Sundays, a side storms at of fifteen was I severe side was were over. that, Saturdays, rides Salt got and pass that ways, evenings? passes recall ’‘cause and it Parley’s had one both first a--all our in the Parley’s open Just Mountain from don’t wouldn’t wasn’t JA: Little Emigration. Emigration, that on CM: would at too. night. They had the longest (laughter) motors did you have running the tows? CM: They there and other than then that we we motors. switched had Later to we electric gas-driven 8 on got power motors, engines that but would CAL MCPHIE be gear automobile Ford wheels the JA: When CM: I on pulley-driven. But wheels, at a yoke idlers method was your what it day, the any money You had full-time was is. I a at of was it, familiarity a side we had a with in earlier Speyer. You said that that mostly the things I you first-class happened the a be a was He as--he expected for rapport could ever were just and a pole be cross good him. with as him, to We never of is this made fun. and really go all that sort back to for Fred great that old people as whole then tight I mean even that working the back work rough welder a experience. relationship or one rough a time? with Fred or or--? safe, the lot about the 1lift good, to performed to operation there. He wheels boom line. of--let’s was learned think run due the in mechanics terms made Was at specialized you good top a winch train just but though, welder, comment they sheave the with business boom sort skiing stuff Well, the back. basically of @M driven, were in JA: #1 and now. put it out he of really he that come, Fred he but you is and at you first just was working you that just just established had a think together Austrian, they I operation. customers. 9 operation didn’t a for him. want to CAL MCPHIE #1 JA: Really? CM: Oh yeah, I’ve because lift. to they a lot So CM: Yes, he the shed the up. away to obey the of it should good where those of At you would the that could drive with skins, the before would ever start the ski instructors out the bottom and dig out CM: Oh yeah. him; when don’t When you really it have to on the contrary lifts, we hiking up Collins go into the the snow in up early old two of us turn at that? there up. to take free just go place. up clog up and At the an and hike personnel would to terminal skins, 1lift lift was and seal the the used free that time would to it dig the top top. their made fact, In Corkscrew. year get and while the We to and time Corkscrew got because around lifts have Everybody rules work? we’d we be, goofing So JA: JA: customers respected. out. wind some just spring terminal But way maintained in open it be turn want people demanded turns top the of to we him didn’t That’s they’re JA: seen would do some Buck be that you opened Little have lights right and our good would I turn anymore we’d to Mountain away? 10 time going take up with turns go up. So raise the tower. in the evenings they did CAL MCPHIE CM: Well, #1 when course, until mean the lights in? CM: No, was JA: They were CM: Yes, because JA: I we it or four then. the turned year already here see I the had it up, of on. there, operated, got least would of be did you put they all night we we three had Ray and him say, and Gorgoza to over would through with suit I there, originator moved we generator open okay. it followed just couldn’t there. before at you there, you really when Then we already So I and it--we first years around generated lights skiing Watrous, same the did up. it kept thing. JA: FamisittilleNoE fibutNdolvous Veah W rhiisits Ray the is @]Vt Yeah, that’s JA: Yeah, I’ve CM: A JA: Did CM: Usually read name. that guy, just you have employees? children counter and the had or maybe some, our was just of fun doing a real what fun we wife their and or one would friends instructors It my and work would great. really great we Brighton? at but-- now, dead He’s him. up store the had that Watrous this rtecalllvif 2]St would work doing. and work behind wives operation. were two, We would had our then the behind the counter out. help just a lot CAL MCPHIE JA: How CM: I JA: And #1 think we they had you two or three, work on per about would just have? did instructors many three student probably. basis or there to whatever? CM: Yes, JA: Did you ski lessons? @M Yes, there JA: On ECM:- Yes. JA: And CM: Yes, JA: And you CM: 50 to JA: That’s whatever the CM: have Lou for the ’68, it No, we the ground So we JA: In terms had a the rope turnout if it come for up take it. you, wasn’t too that right? is director, ski Little Mountain school cold. director. until what year? years. good long time become out our last for an feasible year. operation like anymore? Somebody burnt me to kind of and we again. of gave it up. structures house we people not finally warming lessons. just burned CM: few eighteen pretty Did ski good operated Really? a evenings, was a for generally? taught he Yeah, a weekends JA: CM: quite was Some that. came had counter, tows there did you have any or--? a little and hut then worked. 452 we that had had an a fireplace engine room where CAL JA: MCPHIE So #1 there was room refreshments, CM: Yes, we JA: coffee. And you in from CM: No, JA: Okay, CM: Yeah, you it or the that in out? have a we had a CM: Yes. Well, of forest the he varied lot hot of chocolate it. evenings, well? the What happened anything that was Did you walk away just interest in to left anything? Service. on our we had gross. all to So the pay we our had fees to just work time. Ranger? was with I’ve any and any and ranger rangers experiences sell permit. permit else you awful and of as facility, you Did an dogs the evening had Koziol talked the that district supervisor. came went and and We had our our them. to different experience with people, the forest it’s all rangers, sorts good bad. Well, they little they limit you Was CM: the so JA: and was Forest the of hot was with Yes, doughnuts, land anybody people. whatever? burned did few and the like share or of the were a candy operated grounds, after lot That concessions JA: a and and the candy sold doughnuts, for bit didn’t were about know learning. rope tows, anything aks! We had that about. to teach was A them something good example a that would CAL MCPHIE be #1 the tow time that a woman was running choked her JA: Oh, goodness! CM: Right away about any my came JA: had to was the So to said, day, hour the him why and ours fault happened we caught flat at can now." clipboard woman’s that scarf across "Well, any his show her in at a rope Alta and it death. I with got Sure his was for expect ranger enough, here inspection safe, and having Alta, a he sheet. what loose just it We was clothing. and they went In fact I through your place. CM: I knew they "What took like a JA: Now you CM: Yes, I skier, would you lead so up. long?" (laughter) said That to the went guy, over balloon. a and he went that a to over at ski to learned a there? tremendous and Mountain Little really He Alta. was who Scott named son had up involved children your had you say he then show was a good very skier. JA: CM: Was be involved Oh yes. thing the good in fact In to first do. putting that really We’d fire, for activity he your family to kind a family together? that--it was just and Lou helped build it, helped weekends. 14 me of rebuild it on me the after CAL MCPHIE #1 JA: When was CM: Just after JA: Oh really? CM: We don’t your we first fire? bought it. really the two fires. JA: Oh, not sure @Me Of course, know in whatever terms there was of no had to pack our water JA: For kitchen use or CM: For the for a drink them coffee, up the don’t--unless JA: CM: Now, in in Well, that over in we called the two-thirds long. It was a the ones go, that holy and JA: That was operated CM: Yes, but just holidays. if we It could milk an we up there. We somebody When cans asked you then pack you aspirin. mostly did back point terror skied If Mountain, location the to them, were you area? at fast gallon Little about up of whole-- terrible. taking other same what the was five to any protection chocolate. it they’re involved at hot in addition for two the-- water in water, hill what the whatever? the of caused a section, about ride. the have a It rope and tow it thousand had to was feet be revved experienced skiers time other? were it. at the same during the daytime on were was an area that we make it into some ski Ji5 as the the runs, weekends trying but to it or see didn’t CAL MCPHIE #1 work JA : After in CM: out well. Little working Mountain in Yes, at were probably which the that sounds the other time, and the first a and would snow. So so give we the summertime. the long and after you’d it, because hold So would to come we got to into the had they the our it sagebrush and off and rocks. this grooming idea. When you me did and it by the So get the we ever involved had to that have 16 we slopes, to clear not the would hold manicuring our slopes lay as a would snow cat will hill use out like on you. others, but we the we I it kinds got that all So the why they we had clearing of into you would they think and and and that’s didn’t. other where down, path So in mat, it that, same it a then come the best the plant I all something and snowpacker about? manicure was manicuring is that wheat The all too used soil narrow them, all but skiers grooming. slope ever Our with run with to which down would you mention crested were little altitude utilize we usually a and we pack on time get wheat, especially have rock. something to crested ones knew us used might funny, the we were area? I little world, that burned any sagebrush in JA: too brush the were telling CAL CM: MCPHIE #1 Probably ‘55, about something Mountain over to for the had the We for I of with me that time, when we But roller at and about then rollers at I the like Little ‘54, Little developed using slopes. a probably used the started ski need season, that. rest then other no fourth like Gorgoza property. at my took Gorgoza they Mountain because the hill was bought for Little it do we too shert: JA: Yeah, was CM: JA: the packer that, now that that Tracks, thirty-six frames, wood Well, that you was Mountain tracks? inch tracks on each side, wood tracks. made a fairly handy snow packer I would guess. CM: Yeah, JA: When CM: Well, for some again Ray Watrous he it did back where find I to multiple Some and you of did. get of this I’d in Gorgoza? been looking about had told me a good one. be I that mind my could involved time might thought the JA: really all have day that now, I these an area, it, an area I’ve to I use. multiple areas an get really and that had always like would seasons, at it area still aren’t use. them starting to move think, towards 17 are starting that, but to just realize now. in CAL MCPHIE #1 CM: Well, I have some mean something we think were summer man, What member in some We went Quebec operated there, know they of, about it and afterwards and (laughter) We whether as it they was thousand it turned railroad skated we’d have the the the is the only first other it on speed was going computed sixty like how know the jump out of out all right. and then We build we were I learned We as the for up speed the hour. an miles operated, they or laid a whole and be, chute and there. Gorgoza. showed governor some that So to of chutes one system. put ties year toboggan and didn’t really would some built was length and how it said our skier Somebody ceremonies. opening our the having--if tubed, the it, have would luck of for knew I What was three-chute the We But do see back what know didn’t a came a they round. something because to and Snowbird. year groups. we which had sports the some to say for high what concerts was was and like have trying family that’s to these Gorgoza very were the So at be tobogganed thing. you something we have activities, for wouldn’t slope. areas where trying family rates your but what, a down chute on top ofREhats JA: How did CM: out of you build 2X12s and the chute? sheeting. 18 We had the sheeting lining CAL MCPHIE the #1 tube or we took then it over I we had think the converted it, that was a rod on the back of Alpine It what think, the year would be So CM: No, JA: OlsaysbuiE== CM: I JA: Just CM: Yeah. JA: Do it did we after you you probably would think be got it it Park here get involved we about it go the So over I to first, it it a had carry City had over. and would I off another passengers, So, chutes. toboggans. is that they does the that now again. in ‘59 Gorgoza? to ‘60, I would that. with--? about '68. is ‘71 to ‘68 and converted think around like Little remember when we it. operated Mountain? who you purchased of arrangements Yes, we bought the land from the Jeremy it bring think kind bought and chair Slide. concurrent was JA: down I and three walked I I made and carry the we 1ift welder, tube. something it it a would at @V take and here, Sheeting sixty chair that downtown like would--which or Now, 2X12s lift their forms Galvanized these being toboggan JA: to Rustler helped lift up in something mountain, a chutes it mounted bought @M the were 59 that from or what made-? from Jim Ranch. Knight We took who 146 had acres in CAL MCPHIE #1 that purchase. about $200 JA: That’s CM: Yeah, We an bought land that’s it’s over the the golf Californian and was first JA: Nobody CM: They get find was all it one in originally given to I right was first any bank Parley’s there course. mortgage couldn’t right summit from give land for acre. the street the in Salt across backed or bank Canyon? by given that Lake the a the would that right back to it. would do you want I it. interested? talked nice yourself, in you the can. paper, and (break) So if anyway, as to we say-JA: To make--you couldn’t find any backing from a bank at zulily CM: We couldn’t find any Californian took it operated for operation. I him backing back all built and the it, on and JA: What sort of facilities did CM: We lodge, I big Solitude. So chairlift from I bought the a I Hall operated had and the Alta, 1lift, So that it finally it it those you had T-bar was the a center. 20 bought Rustler double I in everything seasons. have from this himself. overseeing--oversaw went a all. financed time that had at there? the T-bar Solitude and chairlift, chairlift out the and that of then went up CAL MCPHIE #1 JA : A Hall. CM: L S JA: Do CM: Syracuse, aWET IO you know where New Syracuse were Sl Wl i it to built. Chateau that York. and They paid for our trip plant and see how at From there, we and watched then the manufactured? look Frontenac action was we came went to the back back the Quebec built things City Toboggan and to to the chutes the in whole place. JA: I'll @M I be darned. don’t that. think It was "Well, you’re that we of our figured the to that’s the don’t was nobody the It cleared. was We a There a of got so good you slope, lot was a lot put of of that ground one area where 21 felt in We it ski]. had So trees arms wasn’t that we 20th nobody that your that until the [would season. say, I start downtown couldn’t to always About passes our used good got season seasons--the operation a if altitude." We December. steep had be." of the feet, people in type really the 10th that mountain our forecast we of Brighton to chair? thousand had lot plan for only way A double a itself or weather ski, developed. not we your than it. Alta about March around. no that say that was more for season wanted on was right "Well, after it long wasn’t--Gorgoza season said, How we wanted had to go CAL MCPHIE up #1 to this one Brighton’s was for we pounds the runs and cleared rink the what we was L lodge and the standing in down and watch glass on all there could you And built CM: Yes. Our just starting close be a and you could the see could would on our season snows were. we I and and over on by front made if somebody skate. that of between is could Our On skating lodge, look building anybody track six a [they] as everything the 1lift so and we long hand. of So ice keep that rocks Then Hall our planted of 1lift. sides was sitting their kids. building? see separate tobogganers the tubers look could You to them for enough cold get would they out, down come them from on the get kids these of lot a that was that there. motive had it area in people that that all the three JA: would at watch felt thing. Hall the So wheat them shaped line as slope. whole that been doing, crested cleared the have were the of would lift. we manicured hundred that Millicent right Again saddle the and it. to So lodge we ocut from the lodge come down and you side, and the skiers one and the skaters. JA: So you had toboggan runs or chutes and then you had tubingNhaiNsandSamsicatiab @VIE And a skating rink. Multiple 22 use. What I consider a CAL MCPHIE #1 multiple have tobogganing these bristles going to in had overhead one end and the if you have that JA: CM: there again, still don’t Yeah, not like still ski season in with the the off JA: Or CM: I the or had reunions, drop could it done. that. I think for ways of lot a So areas ski the I Now, use. off- their increase to could you doors. the multiple winter and know, there multiple use of price is you if to get now, tickets lift much so just that The it. and be can thing only this may be record-- iyeouwcan really you use. you done if family searching are Well, see other, had summer so the and you on on groups rains it if it, bandstand facilities church you if conventions, have cooking a with side each on doors that buildings type shed these of six about put was do to wanted we What pool. swimming the and rink, skating the range, driving golf the hill, ski the on lights the under riding horseback have were We bottom. the in right sit that in put have could we because again, to going were we summertime the In use. true families something there’s that think or that for the the 23 got church whole later. it strike ygoi backsand to be groups, bunch can something school all be for groups, together CAL MCPHIE #1 and enjoy. that there were over school I felt was over 100 Alta, who cares of what theory Wright, and summer evening my regrets made a feel, T said, whole I see the color You being So logos. why it’s an for an and that was and Wally don’t you llate, T m twelve years before I have learned My used all no a theory lot was the and I right, time, regrets no have I for Eeo I it. these just Prince know, thing. with it if It’s "Cal, just ideas. friends because cares John there there competition, on felt all something City. I valley, were Nsatid M iNe, Vit s my the of and the who in "You’re with lot to down me Gorgoza there had Later did in Park not was. about you it’s said, time," wards winter, it’s ifeaselitiba el your or saw John if if fun, they over." 500 I denominations, groups, everybody, that--when even about EhalE: JA: now Yeah, biking, (€ilg and for those Can you Yeah. CM: Or I they’re to new find riding he was I under mean about ski areas for two hours and lights? it’s--and as up going somebody imagine swimming? mean starting mountain like activities more types. horseback JA: are there far-out 24 I had as a they crazy come, designer. but he I CAL MCPHIE #1 really designed JA: Who was CM: Lee Underwood. JA: Now, he @Me Yes, let So CM: LR JA: And neat things. that? He designed me show eventually JA: some you of were T just was the facilities. you something having with multiple involved E O modernistic. in He the was-- idea in mind use. Gorgoza from about ‘68 to--? T2, backing--what was the demise the owner or what led to your geEEingRoutNof==2 CM: I just think out of had got it, and I an SBA loan, They buyer. think eventually there which was it owners and rate, interest a made new assumed--the low a at loan that wanted tax to reason. So attractive to he some SBA the assumed get even had a-- selling out Gorgoza. we (interruption) JA: [You €M I just were it think feasibility a I'm then anyway, I apparently to an which operation, feasible SBA little felt the loan the University him, 25 did and was a practical to me, but But (chuckle) too. the I it was market as that too. prejudiced that for sounds again get, showed it idea, use him helped which study, a did University the that just multiple the say, was about] us telling guy here So and anyway, had a it chance came to CAL MCPHIE #1 sell it, and Wright, JA: What @M= They’re JA: Did he who did I think they do just they sold it are with it John still Prince the and present Wally owners. it? sitting operate to on it. I for any number think-of years after that? EM: Yes, they chair did--I 1lift they take just operated that west of either back. where one or They the two put T-bar years in a new was. I think and then cut satisfied for it OFEE JA: And CM: Yes). JA: After @M: that was that, the ski No, I felt thought on or would was--I you couldn’t together was practical, I that does. What'’s been have road, secondary the in we community Deer had a really proven being Gorgoza at down to--? I need, concerts liked financing. a still have the was put hunger get had these even your I it the I have what and could you business that say, did think needed it? Valley now and is, Park West are very easily. We huge parking lot and albNsind SN == JA: In terms of I that, think it would lend itself very easily. CM: Just great. So, I just felt 26 that--I really just sort CAL MCPHIE of #1 settled back developing and just some of doing over it’s the just after the the years. planned can see. It’s and you can to, just get The JA: Just circumstance CM: Yes, I timing, the would that see had that I down those very the back, you print, that over it are thought that things easily and on in areas they did patting it these doing, satisfaction o had as you happened, if you fN1ER financing, could doubt we be very just and-- a got same circumstances. this I their just Olympic would back would that’s takers, in with, banking Utah the risk even through the met lot. much, that They’re I are no much given as but-- @M= JA: a of ulcers EheltimingiiisNasliot very is and one JA: crusade things have it Then they There you probably wanted things of that that. it doubt again, of kind attitude. CM: But interests out. JA: Do EMs Yes, up what’s terrible developing our think I just That’s you we and country still have go ski some downhill ski. Now is and resources have taking recreationally at all? grandchildren in Bozeman at out during 257 Big the Sky outside profits it. of story the about we that or we’ll wintertime we and we go crossgenerally CAL MCPHIE #1 cross-country thoroughly Kamas and learned ski enjoy cut how into it. over Mirror We go towards Lake about the to walk on water, that at that time country, eleven Provo the miles River pros and in I out and of we’ve Provo. (laughter) JA: You I can do really lot of appreciate valuable your time. of year You information. [END OF INTERVIEW] 28 up have there. given Well, me a