William Lee Stokes, Salt Lake City, Utah: an interview by Robert Miller

Transcript (221 pages) of a series of interviews by Robert Miller with William Lee Stokes, geologist and professor at the University of Utah, in July and September, 1985. This interview is no. 339 in the Everett L. Cooley Oral History Project, and tape nos. U-336 to U-343

W. L. Stokes discusses his early life in Eastern Utah, his interest in dinosaurs and geology, graduate education at Princeton, friendship with henry Eyring, his tenure at the University of Utah in Geology, difficulties with university adminiszstration, religion at the University of Utah, the attitudes of certain General Authorities towards Science and Evolutions vs. Creationism, and the theological strengths of Mormonism. Interviewer: Robert Miller

Interview No. William Lee Stokes 339 WILLIAM Salt LEE Lake An City, Cooley Oral Tapes Nos. U-336 Interviews Marriott to of City, Project U-343 1-8 20, 1985 Library University Lake History Nos. 27--September Salt by Miller L. July Utah interview Robert Everett STOKES Utah Utah THE UNIVERSITY UNINVERSITY MARRIOTT QF UTAH LIBRARY SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH 84112 EVERETT L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION Date 6/ 7/ 92 I willingly contribute to the University of Utah my testimony Libraries on 19 to be used for scholarly purposes. Open A recorded Usable J /{//p pHingia and usable after my review. with the following restrictions: 5/7 ‘qu»g/( | ('Lj / ?[ K’Lf >7 éW‘/\ i 1 (//’Zi( Qf/@ Aoyo Interviewee L Interviewer Table Tape He Early Became and. George 5 « fuf Hanson and « o « < and b s « sits . Choice = = . . . =« =« s e 14 - - 18 . General of 10 Authorities Textbooks . 26 30 #2: at Doctoral Studies . Dinosaur Ph.D. for Life BYU . . ¢ « Princeton Dissertation Religious at and . . . 34 « . - 38 . . . 42 Professors Princeton . 46 . 52 #3: Henry Eyring's Beliefs Francis Christiansen Joining the Tape o the Studies Tape ol v e Master's A o Geologist Princeton Teachers Tape a ' Seheolaing. DIROSAMBESHAY BYU Contents #1: EarlgSRamitliyEHISEery: Why of . and University of . . the . 64 USGS 66 Utah Faculty 74 #4: Research Conducted Publications at (General the University Interest) . 80 84 S entifi cifertsiandt ABtd c oSk tat RelagliqusyArsedcliesmancds BOOKSE The Evolutionary Tape Genesis and at the University CaltiiegeRafManes s ConsSUEEIRG Tape is YACEIVIHEIES Hitsingiin®thet (o Geoliogy: aof o ie o e Writings aiat . be Lo aben . . . . 88 of 1997 . 109 . oi bl o & e Department . « . i e « ¢ s e o e, e o e el = e he el o e = &« s 115 e eitia . « ¢ < o o oo « « « « . o = Lo T . . . < e 2 125 . & 137 o 12 . 148 #6: Deseret Professorship of 'of Tape Utah' Geology EhefUniversityistDinosaur . . (Colilection o« o . . 53 #7: Church*s "Attitude Continental i DritEiand. Joseph Fielding Motives ifor Toward Science MOEMONASIME Smith's AvketterittolPresident Tape or g Staris Utah ol RelfigiionMatfthetUniversity Ehet S (o #5: Besitions Ehiel Answer s « Book and MEKAY Invelvement o .0 o 2 o s Reviews . .« o o o o « oo okt . & - o . o ol o . 0 0D . = . oo . 166 T . . 183 a0 s s o 187 s e e . 19 #8: Eveolutiionivs. Creation EheSFabliNofSManNands . the . . WEllogod e sl M CR sl MRS ESima ST ouaESIRITE IS & R Sl e s Slrs s a el MoEmeonEEheoliodaicallStrencth e aCEIOTT ol G Sl i n s e P el sias it s T ol i s 9o e o e s ate e e i B D03 2aie AL o L oy el 5 g THIS IS AN INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM LEE STOKES, PROFESSOR OF UNIVERSITY THE AT GEOPHYSICS AND GEOLOGY OF EMERITUS UTAH. THE DATE IS JULY 27, 1985. THE INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED BY ROBERT MILLER AT HIS HOME. THIS IS THE FIRST SESSION. THE OVERALL FORMAT WILL BE TO DISCUSS HIS LIFE AND CAREER AND DURING THIS SESSION WE WILL FOCUS ON HIS EARLY LIFE AND EARLY EDUCATION. RM: Perhaps were we can born talk and about, when, and first of something all, about where your you family ancestry. WS: I was born Utah's 27, was at pretty far What WS iwWel 1., away the L' 16 there hundred all miners RM: How many WS: We five RM: Where WS: I was died, a boy, of in the birth came though those days. the I Jjudge I was local and sisters and one that all Utah, the even whole of certificate, into The when one Hiawatha, at left. there exists, Hiawatha removed much were boys, in know. employed two I primitive have brothers my supervision, isn't people at morning. never really had the longer called looking and they no towns population disappeared; had in doctor's was that Just 3:30 a town mining 1915. under RM: a ghost March it in world it was time? thing has buildings, two born. and or three They were mine. did died, you and have? two girls, so we total. did the and and you fit in first, then the as and the next far as then next was was a the children? there a was girl, girl. The the and the last boy next three that was are WILLIAM LEE STOKES all #1 living. this time tell me about Church? the of members at parents your Were Yes. where WS: On can you Perhaps they came Revolution. of its periods, settled in behest was over 1860s. the coal mines Eureka to quartz mining. was mining, and My was 1in he your even was in your a was Great father's 2 family, the also Church. Britain My and came Coalville. He later moved to rock or called was his name? the in born the in hard Eureka, ranching, man for his but and his coal times. name? father's remember at worked genuine my eventually first grandfather's on in all and father a the miner they Stokes. And in to settled father's history were through and they sheepherding, grandfather can't He what My My long Church plains, which convert up enter career What a a the the Young. have grandfather the with County, Brigham didn't in been crossed Emery of English, WS: They've they back going stock England New English and forth, so and Knights of members original some have we side the Church, the from. mother's my ancestry, family your side complete was William--I name--William WILLIAM WS: LEE STOKES #1 of family a of member a was He Stokes. Peace William nine. How WS: did your Church was districts, one-room schoolhouse My father meE, but &t she a there sheepherder And I under don't and a And maiden name was Knight? name was No, her Cox. Cox. On her polygamist Frederick descendants in Now your in Yes. 1917 Working for my mother wonder whether Tfley had much regard So who very accidents to father primitive for were in Elmo, and worked a Emery exactly we name had the Cox who moved near in how in the they Emery was Grace famous Manti 1left many was a sit very there would mining Cleveland. come stressful during home conditions safety. a in Utah. mines had my full Walter father the school the teacher. Her side central in know school The for circumstances those Sheepherder her teachers taught County. Elizabeth WS: was have down was periodically. mines and Utah. of certificates. teaching to one was She University the at anxious outlying County. WS: very meet? schoolteacher. a two-year out gave They father attendees early the of and became mother my Well, mother frequent 3 occurrence? the that thing day and night. without too WILLIAM wWS: LEE STOKES That was the career in bought a raise My small about was times. could that time, sort of extremely at coal the income. raised that I it. area So your we father he didn't-- ethic and had didn't, coal eggs and take a butter weekly peddled-it to one In other trip meat up miners. 4 to of farm the the at it a local coal and the up source of and farm. in the a and work where the peddler gather up farmers mines a produce farmer, was he'd was animals jobs jobs words, of as living saleable truck of his those of chief believer couple and and the a of mines grain, great think type their typical I a that the successful a had mines. say their and he Did mixed was sold was make a whatever the fairly always they when to had farmers alfalfa man way should that was where situation between all was father neighbors the I any he raise and that crops? the So the particularly my be guess mines But Well, to would up farmer? a as plant with cooperation In Cleveland to versatile deal with and a or seemed and farms. to an cope agriculture, WS: sheep, could giving farm. or Whatever for profession his and had moving and was it, they forty-acre cattle, father he reason mining what Okay, WS: #1 where the and he WILLIAM RM: LEE STOKES the on father your helping start you did age what At #1 farm? WS: Well, he worker of from WS: and wood, the I but that's and had you life, how I've been you there's the it existence. overriding in had old over not But science dried these, that going such as plants but there 5 a a eggs I was of it, worker influences in the cut and is there open has your there's is on in geology. this to nature My carry horses the my as three and recollections still a the became events, influence is I and is guess influence. courses pore or over my it's gather be beginning interest one it--and could and the early of or third--I Whether is her me cows would since. on an I I or life. ever that overriding first. my catalogue mention some think a the this think as water, remember developed I then of comment that soon feed even affected to or thinking it any pail reputation statistical been a as dominated could how determined guess or what approaches. of I don't that Maybe as and chickens, worker. the bound too, stick a was dried, other of it, good a seems life and place to have right from culminate after is the way seventy always I years been an mother had a few botany, particularly. She and so never taken forth, was and a doubt I would in my WILLIAM LEE STOKES #1 that long before I gathering my rocks and Just to life. include whenever she wanted something to interest bucket and we had a it and go which go out gathered made by the couldisEindS all streams descriptions, you it I was was there a I in home was with a sure my they weren't pile parents all I built days I would take knows my have as a low seems place had been where, and fossil, to to of father's been very and went myself 6 to school ground I some I no would Eventually and tolerant. cabinets tell had house, and a the it. I and I and rocks. I and me things, full around when be finding to those topography, It bucket must in gravel there the to and opposed Eventually woodworking, a and days. seeing who this father's this me take and my give colonsitandsaliissiiize s, here knew those and from convenience in trouble come And and And mother, or "Here, around gravel, my me say, bucket, hills reocks s ofivailkt curiosity. as of of rocks." lard the memory, rid would some brass on get me, gather little were to a of day every practically fossils was I on then from and yard, father's my in out found ever I fossil first the clearly very remember And science. the of name the knew even I happened it and geologist, a be would I mind took and I'm Well, WILLIAM LEE STOKES nailed #1 to the had my specimens. there I Folks wpukthup even bigger weighed too. Lee had natural explore. I knew ‘and: the everything. about natural. So were church Would "WS: and my the I that interest. I the had those knew was plants, and: able and bixds, the ' and nothing to first hand was read and influence. one influence, other only in town of course, was a church occasions social church-oriented, be the case for He was father. Church remember, if local toads,: hard-working honest, as and that and I pretty was a great attender. that Except me, the into had around interested Everybody the I an the Church. member, much that's and of all got: bones sort everything then the pounds, know, yet And was You it, of this I dinosaur everybody guess Stokes lizards, 1like hundreds I Everything to pieces many there Eventually, withtites my how see don't I and house, the of outside those there hypocrite. was was He was too man, your a but concerned. perfect he His was main hypocrites many anything would entire go i he to in wasn't, church family? example lukewarm of as objection, the he Church. wasn't occasionally. an far as I And a He WILLIAM LEE STOKES #1 Do home WS: an had only the o0ld really schoolteachers the always putting was I down suppose getting along educated toward good the in and places father the sixth grade. He smell of the like came people end when school, town in he he to seemed He to those in wells ink open that a my anti-education. was in hand, didn't had a other as far as had up grew I times the the on But he resent another. considering have must had that town shelves. six was he And days. We I and books, in few number That's school very reason they and ink, education? her her at influence the schoolteacher. or progressed the claims been consequence. five education. for have the of way favorable [laughter] secular with of library very a any of library large was one were we think of brought She one. idea mother my Well, any the towards him. would what recall you irritated that and School Sunday during away grazing there out weren't They cows. the up lock to had we because grumpy bit little a always was but going, us of rest the tolerated and one saw was way or that softened I a Idttlewbit. The strong mother's WS: Yes, influence side? absolutely. would have been from your WILLIAM LEE STOKES those Church. One tradition education and categories would you place as secular that your two which In testimony. in sees gospel the be would your to threat a is education can tradition Another parallel. of secular of pursuit the you the of traditions various up grow at, driving I'm question the Now, RM: #1 own family environment? WS: Well, my mother anything enter a head. evolution My was father or particularly geology wasn't I read, distinctly written, and why does But for do a long man to our the way. In same my Joseph really That after. I my or so eyes. hates really it that I Smith. I up I he'd said science, a I and and picked became I fact, science, Fielding book even church. 1life, nineteen believe time seemed remember traditional that of the first that?" never idea to and dominating can't answer question. you don't conducive about he a the with probably couldn't "Here's question your I Church throughout the and conflict and instance, remember myself, much was for lady ever any evolution, until the don't pretty doubted sweet with I discussing ever very conflicting her never .. was recall--as environment nature and far towards the gospel. 9 as you recall, 1learning They all and sort it was a inquiry of fit WILLIAM LEE STOKES study that a was was Widtsoe's taught wonderful it. And have a been a local a with the remember one course Smith I of less and let's very have at that in But liberal, a influence. atmosphere of Scientist. still Smith liberal twenties, filtering M.I.A. book. position was Joseph Fielding very the Again of Joseph in through our type seemingly book in I And church. the throughout that Talmage and Widtsoe of influence vast a time that at been have must there yes, Well contradictions. any see didn't You together. WS: #1 copy of time was There must the early, or say. dominating influence of Widtsoce so during and Talmage? WS: Widtsoe and time there if Perhaps early WS: you have been Yes, we No, was in had this the Dale Merrill. conflict, tell me I a first And didn't 1little years share bit of in that it. about schooling your would Cleveland? a great have Academy. school been a As I equivalents. One Castle Mostly of there church church academies Dale. and Your nearest eighteen a could schooling. Would WS: Talmage school? school understand which those my we was had the were teachers 10 and-- was Church roughly in the the were had about high nearby LDS Castle and school town in of those WILLTAM LEE STOKES #1 baited to I can And be. to testimony conflict strictly WS: I Cleveland WS: or miles away. first ten While WS: Well, wisdom the it's of they Cleveland, for went we then the to eleventh the two, last the retained still and seven was which grades. What--perhaps of there was School High twelfth some I and transport to decided they Hfintington, to in grades Huntington and students the bus on later Then there. went even plus, hundred five only was Cleveland in school high population the though I complete a had We Huntington? to went you before in school attend you did age what through And six. been have must school? start you did age what At was It 1line. the down right L.D.S. in outward any system. school the in evident fine was had ever we think don't I his bear and up get everything that assert and But Zion. wouldn't that came that teacher Mormon-type Jack first the remember going were teachers new the who see breath with wait to used always we remember I community. the of respect highest the had teachers the days if subjects. What unbelievable the local if recall, you to school 1Lt were me you you when boards. discuss could taught at look back I At least it school? at the seemed WILLIAM LEE to STOKES #1 me so suit a stupid for teachers too. humanity; science they the In Cleveland science, hilgh® schooli-t than they have but required I School wonderfully it sthink wonderful of levels in then And chemistry, and physics, geometry and algebra. biology ate it because up questions many the an from introduction basic to rock-gathering early my put a of the foundation first wunder of part education complete was ' justh and asiigeed or my in better nowadays. course, biology do how was recall, you approached? that discussed Wwas that in course? particular No, L people. just I observations a 1lower answers the during was it So evolution, WS: course, and the good a 1literature consider had had I So of unstructured life. Your already I'd had had well I courses, observations. nature the we math getting I'd that wonderful and, was I were teacher. excellent here weren't typical and to They school high in English what and literature, American very remember I that had we and history, were subjects But were. we like sticks the in out school high little a of kind sounds That curriculum. perfect almost consider I what just had we and well, learned to keep good operations journal, which some a 142 I there. did and We were still WILLIAM LEE STOKES have, and #1 scientific procedure, say this. our little of the We LDS it. your WS: taught we had, No, at I was just was later Let thing but card a lot so get us the feeling perceived you of forth. didn't anti-science any on religious and you me equivalent the took seminary, of it. Huntington, to we report Moss was our teacher, things the way they Testament, 0Old that didn't had went building, optional there as forgot we where separate a in in Joseph Smith. Brother it that church, Fielding an memory impression the a never one-room was had I when seminary That We Again, had, separate education. took also and real to introduction first my was that guess I forth. so and tests, chemical simple and germination, and seeds, planting experiments performed time disturb the okay, seemed the to filtering down geologist, of Now, during home working great be was that in sweet I age of to the so me. it was that Talmage, He that forth. At was all earth Maybe Brother and guess evolution man. textbooks the nothing accepted. from very Testament, thinking. my impression and were New conflict a least because right. and all It that was just a who was a be at course. the on summer, the farm. 13 as I take it, you would WILLIAM LEE STOKES WS: Yeah, with human muscle those days horse muscles took much pretty up hunt for rocks with that? Very much. the they huge I'd my life and would tell me that absolutely was eventually know "d'nizer." read how Finally, the in and knew a little were him trotting telling along dinosaur, of my Wasatch bit how to on the back 14 to "d'nizers," use the of didn't it, called came Front me I And sophisticated more about stories. and I it. this hills. the in these way. a found they'd is because in do still about word one up dinosaurs FisEls sky the and out pronounce to from remember wild the cousins he something or bone without isanything, mention should fascinated specimens rocks, bare to continue still partiiofUtah! dominate knuckle even I piling, raking, still collect of just you why, were You to museum cowboys I graduation, fossils? alfalfa, it. That's sehaty L to came Well, cutting, Maybe limit. Local time continued I outdoor huge your and interruption. a cuttings, through you, Did four stacking. and hauling, or three your of being crop big our With too. consisted devices labor-saving the in guess I and else, anything than more the in believed father My W. capital a getting and WS: #1 a word. horse visit, and And and I we I WILLIAM LEE STOKES about as had a long kind as of from an that exaggerated dinosaur was, but and the facts. Out and knew knew their bones, dinosaur that I skeletons people California 1looking and and asked me I for I there were guess show on them So I big a about them to find many, it became i knew I the the how began the specimens. up of hills INEE me other." more something came to the read the there. looking I where were Eventually out in to opinion eventually dinosaurs coming pole they're "Oh, said, he and poles telephone the pointed he And dinosaur?" a was big how "Well, asked, to #1 many known about. county from remember them irrigation dinosaur field, skeletons, whiicheTivdid What's can WS: talk Well, I the history about the don't story is quarry was that quarry was we'll ever the great very nineteen--early twenties, the active know about nineteen much the is Professor the quarry? University, by wanted 15 my National time, and of to see like early course, Carnegie Pack, discovery, discovered hundreds pretty at who this particulary--and, that not Dinosaur dominated story Cleveland We that. Cleveland think behind who if it. and The Monument the late nineteen that was Institution. And was a there geologist were any WILLIAM LEE STOKES And he was his curator out a small about number 1929 and one to of of 1930. And those local Lou Buffmeyer father me. And told and when there. I went And to professor, L. whilch as was it the the name T to of my OF of Princeton. This was pure and we its a sinking. call day the to bog The in - - a hole out I I Mr. and my finding was still my mind, told my could it, of and in and major get him a ONE] Cleveland most word lawyer to huge prevalent which saber-tooth 16 who get a bone the tiger came the of in dinosaur deposit animal Quarry, comes The dinosaurs was Lloyd Lloyd serendipity. with Allosaurus the that The wanted in on, called. he formed later Philadelphia is name campground stuck the that Quarry about father, got SIDE announced Lloyd the in rdid. be a hundred, knew going Utah this beginning came told Jepsen, [END That by Princeton Glen dinesanr,® cowboys of so five cowboys remember University the visible I about local Buffmeyer, it, WS: bones, took York Golden and up, it open to who York Golden of name the by man a sent it. about knew he anyhow but it, found he that believe even can't I but know, don't I things. these of more #1 for probably was equivalent later and Cleveland wandering there from time. in what in And WILLIAM LEE STOKES #1 sharp-toothed two-legged, Is WS: Allosaurus this It all its vertebrate don't it is suppose it will since then based on WS: California, two, do or the would we it All in all You had a you can tell pit, but specimens on display dinosaur me a want a to very named about of supply Cooperative an arrangement let's say in they'd give us and dollars them with and a successful project. after yourself. you, through Utah was it dinosaur that. 17 indirectly or thousand four obtain? university, or could was is, that or three, best the are university directly museum a whereby was of that University Project; Dinosaur That forty-five quarry the came the call we what out 1least at did those all they Well, come campus. world. the of many How the I. campus, on sight the building library the in sold save did they But leave ever Cleveland the throughout ever have we eventually favorite to dinosaur first the Princeton stands a Since there. Princeton? fossils. still it and Allosaur, that fact at displayed still sad a is Yes. represented. age on depending sizes all in comes It variety. a was allosaur this So types. carnivorous the mainly pits, tar Brea La the in find they what that's we would skeleton. Perhaps Lol Wil WS: VAVINLDO T4 so, my colleague, authority on the or bones an like a was turkey not the different When and Madsen Of complete from days, simply some a no loet into treaure thing, just At what point to go in don't my I there in your life college? BYU? there about and is of these known only to be the fossil any was did other 18 early Moest I of still not to to it have a great up from evident one become was a doubt I don't my mind. work. down to wanted any and making escape you be college, trauma an decide seem to days: was those was you possibilities those in collection. going it two in personal trash. It didn't through frankly, Cleveland farmer, but ever was it However, specimens. in going guess, one Stokesasaurus. own utter ground. kid's mind but your was a know, remember to it the better I this discrimination of the to named But gathered? had faded of had I and chicken. skeleton, happened you course a Allosaurus. you--what collection WS: like different, It's wWS: looks just Allosaurus; like looked of kind that species other three least at turn did It differences. were there that be to out small quite became Madsen, Jim thousand ten and years these all after Eventually, And there become miner--pretty a WILLIAM LEE STOKES no was there education. and I WS: you entered BYU had you being LDS, an thits TS ELnSn think o R Eryingisto was it words, was it day your in a schooling 19 whether it fortune, or my of ever there If it I that mind or said this at the or course, Of and ST e atlils and 1life, In 1life. I me. was predestined was. in this sort at you, gothiisiticalimat of of pre-existence the in s hele every predestination you--how think follow to chosen followed I've Did I this true geology? it. was believe do I to begin I now Well, not? interview, the of beginning so farm. Had like And me. chose it it, choose didn't is the profession, their into born anybody me, told care fame simply just was That else. anything miner my in you brought or living, a you in didn't I study. my be would geology major doubt any never was to decided no from 1933. of way BYU, same of fall that through was I the came that the in by And think I and except frequently father my women Church, feeling. this to escape, there Well, was the contemporaries point, made 1like which an my of that feel I see did Now the farmer, no most from catered really farms escape and men young among feeling general a was there think I days. those in one only the wasn't I know I And way. either situation dead-end a of much #1 other a way. financed the four or WILLIAM LEE STOKES five WS: #1 years you Well, money those days, get me from Provo, his pickup and twenty-five able teachers to at assistant. FRhERRlisSsN month, They we were of us aid. with campus, and picking that. And jobs every summer. living you Provo Yes, on go and I the things apples then edge home I on tried to It was of poverty. during the just o kids the first dollars to every bit get And job, as a this of it. I we did around the orchard, a matter, summers, get up a the help thirty BYU an fSPresiident to clean the became that's classes. as was perceptive able for produce father through were geology of I Y partit about worked the like Did we things--such think getting that But I scrounged back to there, strategies I the My year “FitUst to farm thanks NYA, down and pocket. but WAnyway, think helping other the After those my second had SiE. in came in squash much, my riding of depression government was me BYU left pile schools. I I dollars the Roosevelt's year, a give e through and on uncles mother's my of away went I that day the in dimes and nickels of remember one truck BYU? matter I and BYU, never at a was the to WS: were things different I say, of stayed in or you my undergraduate worked? went back to Cleveland 20 during WILLIAM LEE STOKES After that I Let's talk about your pretty well the undergraduate took care curriculum degree. of you Now Survey. Geological U.S. the with Jjob summer a myself. went you I master's, my on work to started I when but years, got #1 through earned a for B.S. in geology? WS: Yes, and I'll Schoels suppose you would as University George H. lot ways. of Should like you we science teachers. a wonderful, astronomy addition a minor to in math from math, but took I would And I we you wanted. took regular B. went calculus. up Most want." physics was Eyring. I I through everyone I And would I in a guy sampled great B. Hales, also taught ate up the end And I very algebra. say a some Wayne simply in this? think who was me take so never college to had unusual. was at I And fellow physics. instéfice, "I from which not professor say, I and father But which 21 for high and education "Should would my mind, major ask, he about my second versatile physics, Carl my a what I in liberal meteorology, the alreadysssaideisHaduea And was what and ST nowadays, who take much feelings a Utah. that?" should it have When pretty very call of take my experience Hanson, I to whiich' college technical the ditto curriculunts wonderful so say that I in had took my good in I never would WILLIAM LEE STOKES #1 disqualify from much an ulitmate heretic, But I it. math, I meteorology, soil geology, Now, science and Eyring. I the math with the and then and my here began church. that were to detect Possibly, he something that takes didn't I time few average nowadays. more by It took were the just a so mostly teachers, so pass of training forth. And Tanner, and little would my the Vesco a way and and from be conservation, ultimate members, mainly the course. I I'd and was math courses biology I a sure astronomy, never Eyring church take wasting in discuss fellows shouldn't that's and the the but things Carl taught These took guess Now he gentlemen, then I that can defend I'm courses geologist I've time. wasn't forth, we teachers. happened from so average but of climatology, maybe physicist, these and student--the when had and waste but would I scientists earth a scientist, fact, It's about taking true math. considered feel a In of lot a that thought being it. regretted never that me antagonism a agree remark now with the brethren. Was WS: evolution taught My recollections a course taught remember--Julius of at BYU at evolution by this time? as course Julius Henderson 22 who a or go Junius--I taught a back to don't specific WILLIAM LEE STOKES #1 Agricultural at this Now a WS: summer that part Yes, College was of catalogue Eyring. that, a special think that and to not go was you fairly good course then. would date, I'm got It a attendance It wasn't curriculum. of I've of don't evolution, now. sort I had course. the and and State Utah from down <came he And 1937. about of summer the during evolution organic on course my a course too back. sure I my math was struggling to think of and by a his that it in the BYU specifically on you attribute physics, and find my would math you're to right teacher, first even Carl about Marshall. name, and I I'm can't. Marshall. WS: Yes. Did WS: So-you Yes, take and say Most too. this that in is wonderful my work almost about they the by of I suppose of chemistry? again Nichols. others any had these ranked the Who's professional teachers. And wandering around, I got was a but a fellows with such him, minor in but teachers. real high Who class, and the societies, but they I 28 took in even a their in Henry there chemistry. outstanding start as were Let I of don't professions, higher ranks were great anthropology. number me courses I'm from WILLIAM LEfi an STOKES #1 cultural side of So what experience. college years I I'm had also anthropology. have basis natural in again, I'm thought and going of connection I would these them, discoveries of subsequent my writing Earth, which didn't know subject many other You felt as So my It young that I am was truly people when well-prepared you as on student? 24 in and geology, pretty much historical interest. Now, the maintained because the the I been able up read at salvation this of to to but work a progressive history been that any instruction Eventually, nothing went my predestination, have the at my decades. undergraduate in the especially would that you sciences textbooks firsthand have I've something--hadn't with University. and never matter. overjoyed were I this four on to you lost the knew astronomy), call career. extensively led when to own with basic never back my is anthropology, I And at Indian an from (including And what sciences. and getting physics astronomy, a tribes, excellent biology, in been anthropology geology, biology, RM: half-a-dozen with truly agent had He Reagan. named anthropologist do date if on pleased Brigham of the I my and Young myself and that you time. to other Princeton entering graduate WILLIAM LEE STOKES WS: Well, not I A grade was wasn't thats "I of special good And I'll a say this lately, any attention trying to how were substantial in at stars They and where that's was able to trouble. In Exam, whatever or pretty at again much, as that time. when it I offer decided my was to as we back had they me the about a BYU, from--I'm me But good it I would what was go best there you ask, without it by, best to thing, Graduate the kind Princeton, the called I from offered And have the offers that go. own remember, 25 such scholarships. to I institutions Columbia, somehow point which record all a academic a had they or hold fact, school And seemed I to the good BYU, the took degree, bigger all Michigan, fellowships the the I to a And to they came and these took, dancing, come and master's because others. Princeton. I did think--Ohio, there written they dids I about I social I references about suppose except when religious-oriented private crop So subject reverything. teachers, beyond pay sure my on wonder and of going about ‘enjoy. was pretty record. most every class, me. some I single in I in enthused interest where but a BYU ididn't " xeally attention would the utterly there of at a practically had I egotistical, being straight and #1 any Record I was of the WILLIAM RM: LEE STOKES me a little bit took under George Hanson. this which would Was Smith, concepts Let of me held was when you heard at I'd heard and give go up up my him that I and so going the geologist did knew rode the earth. that when I dinosaur "include by this up was going myself on. 26 I the were their be we there I to Cleveland to Hanson. the the proper slides And plenty and ought George with I remember from species. acquainted there to that to of Huntington. 1learned saw outlying Cleveland, And them that grapevine at in the and the the school first and to with when synopsis and horses to Week, out listened different where back two told our we the to and there of go explanation. or we and made or having friends So of day was plug was and Joseph acquaintance professors were I his up the schools, pronunciation went And on with of Leadership high that showed called the Huntington, he history we a they that focusing issue first give there. And sent when gathered my to that was the taught? about they they This is Historically, what communities subject that an I'm evolution? Hanson. BYU again, become geology tell George later and historical And, you courses geology the about Tell Fielding WS: #1 I him of that think and I told dinosaurs WILLIAM LEE STOKES #1 there. To him wonderful his subject entire that it fact always I some summer a I out to wonderful I George tear down, began discrepancies life. In fact, to to and I one an and hear the think 2 over the popular But bone of degree, And him and on my so that family adopted kid, a house forth. with his about to him it family. come I And paint, But some and but baby-sitter. so saw later up his were doubt, discouragements I way with that. had live the a in. live teenage that the they such and of glorified it master's and as sort thing was my 1like withlhim taught crept for and solving quibbling ever fun field, bitterness, courses became a he he come things lived was barns to summer way found then me and I really and working the and think was dominated classes--and because anything joyful, subject--the in no his or invited out was In what the And there deon'it language I forth. evolution. when that so mean, antégonism, take of being overflowing George was personalities, and exuberant, that the teacher--I on an and I of and presentation problems, was, was was, meeting it geology friend prepared a with BYU the to I went So of of home was And the his with WILLIAM LEE STOKES tears in his conflict I #1 eyes that would he guess several felt he in the church and was far as I out confrontation. I'm correct just don't they didn't their a netwal but great he the credit never had And I that. do it was then. to the any the knew But active to Church. As out-and- hope BYU do that professors it now, which George certainly But, went really the They and most always don't buttered. dhradiicals; the believe--I They of Authorities. he saying--that do because really world, in bread with wasn't Mormon know, times and side Hanson was of was not a hypocrite. So you got might be Hanson. was of Joseph that he Well, it ties she tension, When aware there impression some writings WS: an that had I then your was into relatives relatives' library up one place, there. of I and remember Joseph in ¥ I George of met Salt ‘upt to you a became girl and totvilsit had quite as plain as books, down Stokes. ©Lake they the science? Curtis came Fielding's 28 and much Betty here connectionii'sthils i that her to there from introduction romance. married, Tanner on Smith, hostile my Vasco later first Fielding very later from an day, The And the "hertat extensive I picked Way to WILLIAM LEE STOKES #1 Perfection, or that. Just real radical as I Signs thumbing said giving his Earth which you very one the soon anyone a what to Talmage me why entire 1life reconcile I wanted to course. and a at science. And a person time. it exist, has was And that "The and I Well, see on not?" was write Fielding on "Why which received. then that Talmage would Joseph there his myself of could would of Brother that had From to was one mind what just George Hanson. organic question get still pretty there was believed and was mystifying and I been about comes about biology down guess my trying In the to development, or actually Tanner gives courses course, was a astronomy Vasco geology astronomy astronomy, the with and evolution--the descriptive historical a talked Henderson on of she conflict ask course purely do some like situation. We've then half from the time something read asked grandmother believed. this I same that between I here and could with conflict us, My or antagonistic broadcasts, Man." have it, decided the radio and copies, I like about Times, through before, was the statements really--didn't This of was there a universe a of this context that's developing? WS: Astronomy went from a descriptive 29 phase about then. WILLIAM LEE STOKES Gosh, the you a #1 progress would read chapter hardly on So news then method I was we really books Newcomb used was by every the opened a great step so galaxies and on. They in things the up. afford Jeans, and wrote wonderful of way, you those The big was the stars. I it. popularizer, the Sun, that to and these I would buy Yes, and the book were books. might books the descriptive. could James on and distance I who about was The chapter variables, when Sir a Venus, it has was popularizers followed yes, Cephid phenomenal. have Mars, detecting astronomy so anything guess, that Simon would knew of guess then been Mercury, even days. has great Bt SR say, to the biology and present. Do you recall geology WS: off hand? kept many Yes, I They were Geology bad I in remember of they my And Flint. days. my Jean--I and it; To can't used Yale gave literally you book, the but remember 30 in geology textbooks. books: Historical was it Physical tell zoology the Dunbar I then Yale you beginning called save Utah. and textbooks Shuchert didn't those James what by Eastern Knopf what a to great the Geology the that of Longwell, the truth, astronomy one Too College by dominated honest one. either. market I can't was But Sir T WILLIAM LEE STOKES didn't #1 mention professors was bacteriology little and would grow able to terrific, Would you Mel from to an in Cook, him. One and he what dynamic teacher. the for he overall and jal, TAPE] as He talked the period finished--never I with mind. science mean a and enthusiastic see. faster these someone respected geology most in What my soil to never that OF took want example. [END of the had scientists? faculty of faster finish say I ever and end one Martin. you'd faster mainstream wasn't another Thomas teachers faster were that is He was was a teachers that there perspective of THIS IS THE SECOND SESSION WITH WILLIAM LEE STOKES. THE DATE IS AUGUST 10, 1985. THE LOCATION IS AT HIS HOME. [THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT] WS: [TAPE Well, 2 SIDE I among never the 1] heard ed courses, opinion. One Sidney of B. the geology and, You heard WS: Oh RM: Would WS: Yes, a be in In the there were difference stands out in thank him really; of from the context soften his those freak, made days his as way my one to of mind of in our criticize him. a two a whole creature no doubt in you again, that conflict Absolutely. any pick also. up in or out of how courses? in a just fraud way, he and felt a of so religion was some about forth. of and There the whole fakers. instructors? courses it kind, bones about bunch religious shape, pooh-poohed diseased it, just these any speculation three were other his Sperry or mind geologists recall you my big fake, taken of opinion the Erectus. or they'd thing, WS: to paleontology. personally didn't form. saying of of regarded out particularly, that that he as Do is opinion go course plenty he went could of don't that he Pithecanthropus RM: I of yes. or was and particularly fact because you find Sperry. greats, RM: and who differences but department, required spite any scientists, religious is of a So, sense WILLIAM RM: LEE And STOKES you viewed primarily, was WS: about then a think from they'd he Religious the science of way Education President hired the the by deep sonic as, Smith anything go a back afliligt a at took C. Wilson. he I was father of educator. anecdotes the his this teaching I great think BYU me Well, the little entered the only outside idea and of a mind. time in institution? off to terms What Sto, "and work I eI 33 on what which just of kind is and one “shouldn!'t® was ever did who'd been they called sort of where don't research mention that Eyring, organisms in and Carl layer, hand important minute person was deep-sea Right a became little asked because was ever scattering of very He don't government sea accumulate. job. I You Guy maybe a done? note study in harmless on. feel thing. fellow, just knowledge of old a to teachers. later your--was anything whole that primarily my the him kind was guess, ed. of so any research To us and was I sweet need told conflict over a Wilson aphorisms What began, taken in Meredith owe® of in religious bit actually But I animosity other quite I College antiscience, about personal WS: the antiscience. Yes, of #2 they believe going more man neglect? a that on. that Can I "That's WILLIAM LEE STOKES Bertrand of on #2 Harrison, a par botany, who with and Vasco Vasco any conflicts any econflict taught any in Tanner taught or me the botany. in that he zoology. insinuations Harrison's He I or was sort taught don't the recall intimations course. It -was of strictly science. Pexhapsi youfcan® circumstances WS: part of I've already tallk® under said that department. Hanson's laboratory chose. right days other words, specimens, the of these by geology, was a that way, and was Ethe and that maybe in my of and And George she yes, had sent was a us 34 to and and this much or as work It was in And this laboratory in coincidence. courses, from I in interest maybe over the appeared. cosmic freshman laugh turn experience maps. wife less historical hands-on Hanson's senior both would pretty the or 1laboratory another a he run in more tremendous George was we to a that's one and future has assistant was fossils, young-looking graduate, Wyoming. about® wife physical it and an had our courses the me we both with she 'bith your I man, to with In fact, hand those geology. But met became In over In she, you I courses connection one which ldttlel your-- geology George a and I first-year Coalville, occurrence section in WILLIAM LEE STOKES physical Stokes geology, will grand #2 be And trying to smart, what's show didn't know to your started, the same ‘what's met her, guy for dates, I that you project tell me thesis, Yes, Sigma about I the was Psi medal basis. formation, home she It that's M.S. not Psi project. so be the "Don't you how pretty so that I we we much smart, that's totally at how I was the a few had you unknown. BYU, medal. And Jjust instructor-student degree Sigma to you're why, an ask something. on claims was just that's But on, the you Perhaps wrote a did you a can master's assume. that yearly so think made you're her, carried later it. the And you and guess won to philosophy. her, or supposed said we if rock was I student "Well, some I "If of began-your that another says, guess was I was was Certainly relationship. When help classmate I needed and any that type her. need It since: this?" you instructor?" and ever so she a Stokes--Lee And off, until "Mr. you." I and said, help thought this?" that's he "If realize got my there she instructor, WS: guess pronouncement, me." She I one for I had which town. is I of the the best chosen the guess 315 traditional to piece do dinosaur I was of mine prizes, research on the formation probably in the on a Morrison down the near first WILLIAM LEE STOKES half #2 dozen master's department, thesis, a master's by default you Well, of it as a contain. in all focused Morrison area. call and was now were It pursued a vertebrate number of LIPS be the was vertebrate paleoecology the under So that science of what Sime, nothing out same of they to in study equal my to Feand i the master's complete a Princeton. the first Mormon formally paleontology? able to say that. paleontologist, others. brethren--that £iEst you vertebrate to on sattracted cropped were used [laughter] vertebrate-bearing there's say I say buried). those Would Yes, might irregardless at in You year. stratigraphy, world that now conditions dissertation you would (the it I what vertebrates doctorate trained WS: on the the formation. Later of interest. died the of that Feormatieonsisthathsparticuliasilly guess proud thesis. one strata, But too geology plus we sedimentary the paleontology 1lived, what not or best primary extinct in in comparison already they brings by the vertebrate which the not was had these certainly dissertation paleontology WS: I'm certainly be So and candidates But but when one tewbewtrained 36 I thing lin used I Well, I now there to write mentioned: sthisssubject. Of still am are a to the I'm the course, WILLIAM LEE that We STOKES didn't any the to school, what and you why Well, can BYUSST in ask I had hadsisomething s, tor major world a and he And I gave did me and Columbia, lot to and just selection, for graduate of the as think, help. was who 3, the My academic the bad schools, where to apply. schools, my memory help but & ESwas from and Michigan, possibly But of that them reason my Hanson, the personal became shad in to big all WL & Professor and the professors Anyhows,s remember. and at outstanding: good around good can't financial Jepson, geology. considered, Bthath Princeton, good L. you in record those monetary pretty Glenn you point ieniraliliithe & detadilisi® I I all advice many that Princeton, good alil been of places significant this have average. the offered ©Ohio, might of believe Ph.D. withossiit o0 had issnot S Ecorysharp) accepted of A know a apply a pretty i dohs professor, to I preparation Slitwass straight enough discussion at do heard. a and and you a generosity practically with to your ever Princeton. said the I BYU, schools chose as 1938, about '"m@fnotSsaying Possibly my at University other I've far interview degree Princeton I as program your Perhaps ice last master's received WS: cut finished your go #2 for was a offered me going to attention major other that professor, WILLIAM LEE STOKES showed me. research #2 He quite fellowship. Princeton, and particularly hands-on was was it was decided a good choice for I was with Dbones. I preparation, repair, and large it from various collection. was couple the of shifted that over not was Ph.D. I the sort Earling in namely, formations on would trace aided by the the took on the one my more the of face of 38 go of less. a in and And in Jepson. He committee, and direct my thesis. right on with subject my that 1I'd here I'd had formation. The Morrison most the my for that the throughout generosity to that animals, or to subject the bony a vertebrate Professor same Morrison a time interested graduate able same this had program more over extinct Princeton this deserted being the it on of which the become became of Dorf much 1is to lot <cleaning, of at prehistoric of dissertation formation say to reasons, a the which stratigraphy, fortunate BYU, of should then chairman had--pretty at to the Professor of in a go subject, restoration ambition and have favorite carried years, process was I I environments my me to many to worked I my paleontologist. able places, And definitely offering I fossil animals in Anyhow, because experience specific studied earth, but western father, geological I decided states. who loaned I And me WILLIAM LEE his STOKES #2 automobile, Wyoming, I Utah, travelled did Arizona, over five observations. it, it also deposits include ores Morrison of it's said was shipped At about into that to experiments--a huge scientist at time. an alloy that that needed for time from that deposits. Now formation so a very Peru, had the much dissertation on steel. We all to mine reason is the the that I'm I had Large the Curie, and the radium of by women I her and U came along, which that the finished at is it boats low-grade formation of woman getting German just the some emphasizing Morrison 819 were these of from vanadium, ships, study famous when for the and most much but sinking we Madame made then to deposits mined for the And hardening periodically reason was in uranium. refined, Curie Monument mineral been contribution she was was the because of these and began and days Madame because ore the ore America, the already in the I Those and chief America, time vanadium, had make National the Idaho, the prominence radium, radium to is North contains. ore for in in Colorado, miles Dinosaur it of and Morrison came mineral quantities thousand the Utah. formation Mexico formation of northeastern this New The dinosaur-bearing attraction trace was at were the American Morrison writing the time WILLIAM LEE the a STOKES wartime job emergency with States that the was So questions three Utah and four And this same had been was uranium. And had the wuranium out hundred one Eventually, of importance, but knew So that close what tie in the the was that I'd Subsequently, that had I went with back 40 of but thing of of this interest sort one to the same were five formation. the great on Japan, dropped been working my career, original of government there particular my shortage geologists suspected was ties Manhattan doing this to for it of U.S. was the that--I'm The we'd to exploring Project. bomb part here out vanadium the no me worked on noticed Morrison survey we when explains the calculate working United for end next for career career, Survey I the the in the and course, it my contingent here, geologists we the time applied immediately, engaged of, huge job shipped Manhattan a I on explains was Geological At a towards we sent the me subsequent care with through my expert They I when immediately formation--after taken parallel thing. years. and on an that along off they of and And specifically, offered Colorado, drifting find they or vanadium. Project sort asked, next up. Survey, some formation. came government, Geological I into #2 towards. and the formation. field area WILLIAM LEE in STOKES central Utah deposits, or occupied got in to a a lot WS: Well, due credit ways. :that!si get different back of don't knew exactly the way give We out how they you student's performance a Kkept disconcerting never with way of grapevine, our examinations. Professor this museum, to the never Jepson job with I saw Professor So I've I-- him. they the But how that it's sorry me off didn't "How 41 have come hardly ever reason. But was about each course, and of you were doing in maybe by except right, of at the that I went his a They professor all I card. kind that when than was one under somewhat it was country Right Jepson, each students, think took that particular know was for you his and in report statement file. a students and was other I have short to comparison a doing in on schools had track write I these formation Should they cards, were kept to is. life. graduate never report supposed still and Morrison off? Princeton, evaluating just graduate old drifting to universities. the beds, subsequent this dinosaur fine. way were important bone my to I were or of Am most those there quarries, deal of to where good give Ne;»no, #2 wing, first dinosaur. you we had greatest time, and there. And and went So haven't I had to the I said got a WILLIAM LEE STOKES dinosaur #2 here with SaidirtNe Tl where that figure for and to a lot said, obviously know fifty thousand time one from Philadelphia, not, Philadelphia came dinosaur to it's of best, one those days, Lloyd had thousand And so engaged believe that to a get a about I and he lawyer in and with a lot that So but I'm lot more gave 1938 teenage us I guess this money. said, I took brother 42 the my than to at came in it or and a he donate a out and he lot in Malcolm gave and at amount a named thousand Grant that and was anyhow go He less munificent that "Well, and serendipity lawyer But a Utah things, was I from money wanted here sure and he and believe of prehistoric know expensive." graduates true, to you happened a said had hemmed for was '*the get cowboy just *my don't he dinosaur it for you can And a he current, too esteemed dollars. dollars my But their Jepson thousand "Well, And that I was still Princeton. and it it's of in dollars. "Well, interest actually dinosaur that." dollars. that a but him, rich' appears than where supportive from *teoe" it less didn't could get thousand came specimens?" “bikt “And" to fifty other JHttle that saying dinosaur hawed, was least remember af *bload." misconception at your theytre® blegd=—orWeur spend all me a do it." dollars and my father's WILLIAM LEE STOKES Quarry. It and we and took a really worked Jepson these very on it by I sat spare time So and gluing put together war came these along United together by dinosaur got of the and happened a in shock 1984 museum library, Did the access he '85. still and they quite job eventually put To of a and the as the later bring sold dominates is my left it her up entire paleontology, scientific But the and museum. the But did world. keep the Al, That the geological favorite with the people. Cleveland to to my enough took years study on in had University, Princeton and and Princeton Yale was repairing Survey were the I I it end specimen. several abandoned allosaur, and from on, and and years research away, Geological feet my on time, bones of Professor months mountable Princeton iater collections RM: his do bones, Since eventually that preparators centerpiece was a these on me for and couple bones. chipping States But a of specimens, having and about for fine there make deposit thousand bones, to Princeton. which of cleaning date, quarry with bones. to that fantastic couple enlarged the a a these with at out success was Lloyd Cleveland the up opened we and truck, T Model #2 the Lloyd material 43 Quarry--did there? How the were public you able have to WILLIAM WS: LEE STOKES gain access? Well, the Bureau of Land to bit of permits red to University big way, again, I was geology in and now one world. But mentioned some and more stratigraphy, professors. I always had had shelving a back job there library, in. I about and I can't the say publishers, the their courses. scholars, and and of when I the most get the we year everything were and surrounded librarians, and and so that very the while I even whom I took in the was interested very usually by I fine and worked I a paleontology wife that professors writers, work, a also in Princeton some my to quarries bookworm and courses, thing to had back noted in For we came course a quite fact back had laid necessary the specifically books, 44 up it hadn't the in now days through and library. But go the is those all opened to second read on was own the teaching finish of its had of and department to quarry, we in in what in and had later out government we. Utah, it's entire but And of and we this rights. the the in the on tape, dig exclusive in later is Utah, land, because But Quarry County, Management land it. Lloyd Emery of nobody's claim a Cleveland wilds extreme was #2 diligent we the didn't atmosphere researchers, forth, I figure and it WILLIAM LEE was a grand What WS: were #2 experience. the Well, like doing in were requirements I say, our a very and knew they this, How We were many have point, we but the knew the In we of us what everybody who we met had a together, was was were students fact, all and how graduate and doing, and failing and other. students had in must Ph.D.? group. succeeding, and the exaétly work, much graduate must never club, pretty that, for closely-knit breakfast we we course little how WS: STOKES my have were there? time, had and that about was fifteen a high graduate students. And WS: how many Well, the You've asked to have to be a faculty? faculty me about major in and which about the study examined, subjects was the same requirements. subject then you you in had had in Well, which to number. you had intended have proficiency you two minor with 1less training. Those WS: Within were the within and would passed pretty department? department, languages, have the lenient, mine and were them because 45 if in addition German the I'm and you French. professors very poor had I hadn't in two never been languages. WILLIAM LEE But STOKES about that lessening now I through of think and the a so course, you forth. had a of to the because the thesis. never a good I one or forth. So and my thesis Now you that Was I to my course the work There as and about to still all. And then, which about subject was work work courses in was I with it adequate my But on whether and was so languages 1941. expected wouldn't required people right graduate course You years. and was work. most go argue scrape can three able and I but take math to thesis, years, to entirely. equivalent course able and manage your was formal was--sometimes did were country, such French, to the was mentioned formal I whether and I up that's had had finished make two thesis fortunate can year's in was it write one Ph.D. gave the but requirements whole But and about get the French, you considered because language many German little could the substitutes computers read time throughout eventually are #2 be outside but finished. the geology department? WS: Well, it. only Now become did. me I your Professor a asked if producing to take remember major Jepson thought vertebrate some a professor course 46 I you was in biology, embryology. needed going paleontologist, courses in thought I and which can't to he I say WILLIAM it LEE STOKES ever #2 did me any in life but what it tremendous. But that outside could of geology have taken hbutyoultcaulid wanted I'm in Perhaps Jepson to it and the The thought only course languages language foutlforsyoursel a took we department, fatoo it woeu the tape OF SIDE could--you first, other ONE] mentioned and famous over. then later geologists you studied under with Earling Dorf. were at Princeton at time? Let me say a be word to me, to at all religious we got we say, a about that to that had remained with the rest trouble his region. So I me know of me that true, us. in He was as a of, but But to I wandered that explained 47 to into me why He wasn't sort of way back effect, have they up he this think seemed eventually people they'd Illinois folks his always, Mormon. acquainted, something they the in better confessed and Jepson. interested little Mormons, and took. the_regular Bwerk turn you at What all it my to. going that enjoyed about for never I I I but course. was that [END WS: great course was my professionally, a was it understanding good been about just the he were out if here time of through, Black seemed shall that the were after Hills to have WILLIAM LEE a STOKES little famous interest man of retired, his certainly in in the books #2 the the Mormonism. time name three as in regular gentleman if I a younger professor by the was nothing of affairs, American the he has friend who went surveys to And out of that his on some time. Harry to Hess instituted, spreading is to the is which geology put is what the lioaniih they is as dominant theory 48 theory made of a and Hess gravity unheard of of up the ocean and, later was tectonics. And American who the theory was Harry which the that imisea the plate turn Navy, of regarded the Field young he foremost beginning of and was U.S. spreading theory forth the to was curious the bed floor the a happened which sea Hess, of the generally or Harry and the become there submarine, of particularly, But this was forth. one. Navy this great so the ocean, many and it was was texts one in He paleontology Montgomery the But understanding enlarged of Scott. through way protege a Jjust of become he--Field--persuaded submarine. but people had knew Richard of there written name The professor, has ever time, geologists. another good at most B. geology A the vertebrate and general Probably was William States, well that was top United as in of of sea floor geology evolution is and to WILLIAM LEE STOKES biology. a But course, of times. in and maybe yonder. of should of smoker--that age hadn't had lived him to three I will of lung Harry West generally, tradition. You Who your was on honor Montgomery stand being out as everybody at me because coming but just out back 49 chain and of the there say, at 1if would to and I an he have come to William B. others, but great people. And that I can that had I guess been BYU, it a died was there'd published. committee? was Princeton extensively, later And He Field blue States. to that was Princeton, undoubtedly were published publications great his he at trademarks. he on the that sad lot he in he a instruction off United and up what guessed Hess--there that on far that his habit, some guess the cancer, Richard effect in of So say great no one especially think a was the and got of finish look professors aside enjoy later. Scott an show dreamy I greatest as this you have foremost of a type never would didn't with and would desultory who something the the say early was very just maybe didn't, never one he in and you You one fact face, a those wander about be and in was of one and his thinking Hess was He'd eye, would Harry who teacher the #2 was those practically and out part of the of the WILLIAM WS: LEE STOKES Well, Earling Earling he #2 Dorf Catholic, but a basis church on really was, church. regular in But a Glenn Field. We just we all was You've to got me. a copy have think of the few who in his way, active who was and just of I went sure, I way, he think I'm the that one religious trying By gentleman. knew and Jepson, can--we chairman. Christian formal I'm committee. Richard the real a was was a was Okay. Dorf the on I don't to my think remember. dissertation we can-WS: Yes. You file cabinet their speak time, bad and as they are anywhere senior wish they else but at Princeton and that student had to was more things that that their to students native write. But you of them good could read there. big of all going by for that 'em or weren't as many And I a remember standards which had copies I was the topics else, that what certainly notable and hundreds detect now, they preserved theses, were to 'em, something learn There trying and dissertations, which for names the students' them. and high with in former through of famous they didn't had know of was a senior thesis. Every write a little thesis, and general lack, tongue, at 50 it's and Princeton because the some there of all verbal of the skills them was I a never lot of WILLIAM LEE STOKES writing, Would which I'm thankful say the departmental you historical WS: At #2 geology Sthaeritime geology, that slightly rock, neaTn is more the physical vogue than were with ' the collections and the discipline has weakened they had for a in to sell those history days, of we fossil due to ther of a sign William study, B. that space times. and a that make the was in instance, to Scott sad Princeton For of hard I'm material field. was the strong. collection is on angle call quite that more isoftivrock fossil ‘sale @ ofs which fossil and non-replacing the geochemist, caililled what both was geology? sedimentary they ' 'that emphasis thinkeswhatsiwel in although tefisay than for. But a very long strong thing. What WS: about Well, I'hadn't I don't no such expected There the been thing to as advanced and event, in activity too life nothing the but student wasn't I awfully why, affiliate religious any church understand really campus, In your was in wards, with much of his the those and what that was at the days every own students to time? active particularly priesthood 5 the attention, compared not at BYU there were student geographic I think, given of became active. something was ward. outside it and to the later. If I was carried WILLIAM LEE on STOKES by And my as bishop far a by name. Some to very to my Princeton see if there because that application found in one the him over any one was I registered was felt 1like I services, big monolithic I'd go the first and sitting over it and church there big that was I was go I made we had to somebody's 52 do couple was in be pew. the I I of found one And church. out a decided times. from of was wandering LDS ejected were sort street just our Jack only So I contact some Methodists. a your Mormon did to to And of the of did on students across mistake as type right I went office put never I to the I registered, you graduate to much thorough-going figured and down a needed as Saints I his want preference. but other studies given registrar's marginal was no I church out he LDS, I a church I soon things school as there. the was forgotten what as religious that since the to of hadn't But it go course So Latter-Day your did a really of suppose And I Cleveland. Provo, lessons. to was at I've went undergraduate Mormon. because I in there. life. fellow and turned down is were on remember religious I ward However, wonderful you home going and Cummings upon thought my anything basis Dr. impress in non-existent. regular given back as practically on #2 the that in It seat, the WILLTAM LEE pews you STOKES were #2 sold just go the and sat went to the in has a sit Bible keep And I 1little and that enjoyed. And sermons there, However, one morning and opened I Henry searched IDS look up. Princeton, must say that and a no in I particular started on my Eyring in the same as did. was was course, took me 53 out he obvious I of him, had that the you under 1is quite out as limbo, and Henry I he only see his went days, but went and that here taken the the I and Of He the LDS a Eyring. those was faith. ¥countey:. door, Henry bless columns firstisinidthe found a tremendously theological knock and cathedral, Princeton itself was but non-denominational of fthet some Princeton beautiful know and certainly enjoyed stood and and, I there records It which and done the professor, Henry didn't I came it, student, me here I on of oneof there had forth, Princeton schoolyd anyhow, course, so anyhow, found regular atmosphere and EhriisEian, had and the religious, Well, they I I wife and believe and with my I But, miniature cathedral people, pew. lesson non-denominational glass wrong going up. certain éomething. school 1lovely stained to the or study that very in back Sunday conventional didn't designated didn't went I or was an time to only LDS student at possibilities. wing. Let me say WILLIAM LEE STOKES this #that¥ course, I #2 the ‘first ' year went by next year I came as family, his most a married up consisted all of and her wife, and her grandson, constituted, in the a branch, in his or so there thirty members people of president. formal I us even made fifteen a or we Sunday to little total, a guess or church suite and every up. There so chairs. met Sunday, was Then 54 a meetings. is must have they his lady, and which for hotel it New Henry took gave us all We the about mixture of branch had where where a twenty had usually room even town, the word. a and small and maybe as right in man including Henry the German young enough It had membership heterogeneous with that's total as which fellow nearby we very sorts, German Still between, us a Henry, wasn't we Henry and was car. year of other the hold Brunswick. in one the the both young to back Princeton this This of next wife, know, went New and this crowded all chapel gave we and my there wife, as the in ‘“there, went friends. and So Princeton. to people old. my every on I the members grandson, far of and later and so Brunswick, miles and as town all and ‘went so treated known years me, And Henry the “I before concern little twenty but wife. and me maybe us my personal gathered lady myself, 'that no they wasn't we bedroom had or WILLIAM LEE two STOKES #2 besides, school was by a has sitting good Church where even Eyring, He knew say this is not here that I natural about away a just for his they of were their me they and that that the everything acquainted with knew his. little quite well. Eyring, but experience awe hear about him the to But sure with him, of his frequently had and it took that you scientist. almost first my Eyring awe greatest I'm I'm personally, boys know rest Henry potential I'll cosmic supposed great and now with I was this 1little born But Sunday those Church's three because I that the and of Knowing little knew to every well him had forth. Sunday there. Henry in him. feel well, discuss so 1little understand forth one a Princeton, very know been read might and life in maybe hadn't have time that and I thinking, another to if I'd Let chapel my Eyring and became have beds back and I coincidences Henry the increased riding him. at a tremendously Henry I on could experience, has But we from wife us the just to as dinner place. ask be the of Mormonism a few status of at question. your the own time? 55 What would theological Had you done you say would understanding much reading WILLIAM LEE for STOKES example Mormon WS: #2 of theological Well, right church guess now him situation and here and the put space defend that the of had me the I And I otherwise figured, I'd we have there to 56 a go and Canada, know. Mormon- salways shared was work trying to was wrong so been party part in you wrong kicked showed much with something beer take from there Eyring weekly some persecutions was have by their something Henry if if and display can't I by without me who when all wouldn't before well, been guess don't fellow I whole little against I "Well, have a sthat i you: explain the Mormonism student out, the said, people." a Joseph criticism even building and he remember was thing geology on of much the surrounded cast anti-Mormonism remember must thing, there with antagonistic being defensive singled there us, of prominence. somewhat But allow scurious I kinds because more was particularly Mormonism hatred, was guess troubles, I I I la into different it. he in a a students, why other disappointed attitude. didn't understand. with his there or science, really I hatingmis as I and answering quite coming because Mormons, Talmage towards say non-Mormons and was was might towards and I Smith I or literature? attitude Fielding of Widtsoe up was it; out. WILLIAM LEE STOKES however, And so I I never guess religious say. #2 life, I things back to people up like and live it should and to was able had there the was a be be didn't then, I No, I for at it that I was but at one that My I not time do know my own way I must say that I the and great so forth, matter, my mind and that Fielding's had the get the Joseph to future, be some which I now. in completely things some really for Mormon didn't My of I another. 5. cut me. sort formally. or in I'd with of there a 1life in with and theological time? folks was be subject reading Jjust literature. subscribe but much was I doubt off at hoped the wrong wasn't always to my might I tithing anthropologists, accept in you but some slightest do obeyance paying lived. with ambition. cold, religious somewhere you of able explanation know that nor I that literature WS: but assumed Did I hot I'd something thinking. state about evolution and out attendance, that, evolutionists never a faithful where studied was my Utah thought carry neither kept particularly few it did off from have the mother sort a missionary, read everything I read Mormon money of and to looked maybe available everything that WILLIAM LEE STOKES Widtsoce put and into Were #2 Talmage had to say, or they were able to print. you aware that Talmage had been active in geology? WS: Oh yes. I don't have been jobs at while the Professor Russia, that of was with and the title, Henry and and knew that you of home. So yes, evolution, subjects the which of and he others. he been the had at you to Did the had and be you had a Yes, first I University church would go the discuss age of the were to become to me As I written Talmage's great hero knew him, chairman of opportunities from you actually was in New talk substance earth, any issues the with Brunswick, dinner religion of Utah. to to my including Russia. Utah and of significant were must collection. widely, from labels it one fossil quite University would conversations? his was but because specimens occasionally What BYU, Hanson mentioned that it Geology travelling the that, travelled the the learned curate had collection. Department Now to course Professor I was I at handling Talmage, fossil when was Talmage remember by I BYU and I know of and at his yofir perhaps of with these Joseph Fielding? WS: The conversations I 58 remember the best were WILLIAM LEE STOKES #2 religion-oriented, own career. One Princeton, to his Henry in from thing, his Well, I wasn't know the Germans were Were done you sympathetic WS: Yes, there said in for, knew so and arguments around do out I sure of of still is that the from with the he war. But figured there that their that that. that department one Germans over because other was win a his thought to a as or while going in remember the I Henry's force Princeton win geology about technology some the father impressed had was he the some figured we too. aware towards was I in administer started I'm he was to his specifically, because going help fellowships were one ill. he they only quite started so and became sheer thing his him lot that we were professors had about visit know a lot to and how persistence really to guess, one days, and he the I war and win thouéht by a came universities. the would student get and he methods did us come Mexico, because Germans to 1learned German Princeton, Henry, I me gained, because father meantime just he told I and intellect his wanted But herdsboy, Henry the so way. experiences in in father, small aids time and remember and no at that evolution, doubt 59 about time that towards it that Henry was the-he and I were WILLIAM LEE STOKES #2 evolutionists, had started becoming he told mining and out a mining how, as of and he blood ran out, to he chemist. But Henry he'd a that before your you was doing him questioning didn't Henry it in me a heck Eyring was of personal on that the mentioned wasn't cut that." profession So as and a read asking me question you to if going up story and I guess the a lot that in I 60 the me I I guess crossed, and and else what I remember geology well-informed, he elevator asked took. soil even everything acquaintances your death, he about. doggone slightest that the of about made and characteristic course everybody his geology every so onto 1like was a the shoe I as one top. of And that's life's the of in roof that always stranger about personality You would know out Now aim the mine, my final always, to off understood it. a anything his he experience the me that geologist. in took or into whole got I earth a from convinced he he not job fell "When with practical a rock perfect have his confessed career if took a about Eyring, was he and questions as went extensively he far the naturally less academic says, study or engineer, which foot, more his engineer, process out he which that's he he he why milked had became a quite provocation. knowing Henry, first of all WILLIAM LEE STOKES gave you didn't say a have that a WS: the Did effect on Well, really you undying but Fwon'€ had He to believe he just discuss. it, but was he 1left 61 science, positive you to it's the pin Book him American out his just of feet, He had I'm all the is my--no, my Efeeling for about the and all down races said impression of Mormon, subjects and to Smith, by-pass This I couldn't on Joseph skipped the but tended exactly. people. came say, He quick and Native never believed a I and down but couldn't He renown, characterization him about blithely the Latter-Day Henry. very God cuff, the during of have what things, other sure and of tendency up you orientation? pin a him would and committed in members world content favorite of the you the of My life some careful lot hung and Cumorah be never too instance, that. a that wasn't of suspicious down. off of image to about that your science religious little 'say he of got he and devoted, testimony objections want own could distance, respected kind was perhaps scientist very him that in portion I've Eyring sure, a who glib meaning influence a a him as your pin Henry Hill a that yes. very that at saw major always an who was Saint. be him years yet was on person perhaps and perspective Henry's Princeton yet #2 he didn't he didn't that there WILLIAM LEE might was STOKES have never Prophet #2 been any Joseph some doubt Smith doubts that and he in believed the gospel. [END OF TAPE] 62 his great mind. in But God purposes there and the of the THIS IS TAPE 3 OF THE INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM LEE STOKES. [TODAY IS AUGUST 10, 1985, THE INTERVIEWER IS ROBERT MILLER] [THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT] [TAPE 3, SIDE 1] WS: Still talking bypassed person about a 1lot might forth. If be mainly about which he Henry he couldn't didn't rest us. of better and maybe not, was made came his I at a was with the hall with words Smith, earth member time Henry down over at he the statements told Sunday me of the Brother Smith, something, Smith, six and how thousand say faith about that make. might to bother Utah and board, he was making writing his books. was in they Henry you years down had said when he connection walking and do that to I These apocryphal School himself, he I don't out meetings School, emotional Fielding and this what of and being deep maybe moved Joseph average supreme a they Sunday the would a people just it in leaps story, he objections, So like one of one only made say, discourse, on most when a logic. him when "Brother is tell but memorable think that bother I'd a on he I that faith based that and give ultimate than like scientific to have is details the up his make, hang-ups got more Eyring the and must convictions Eyring, of have, so Henry the crossed Brother know that the o0ld?" or some the WILLIAM LEE such STOKES #3 question. And Brother Henry And it." just feel that itoeisn'ti® gentleman, would in those if you most fearless with fearless with down in societies, sides they positions, for is the United States, and it's 65 no top was he sat meeting the both was important many the American of Science, in position wonder he on religion of our professional his Advancement absolutely which if And had @ only not was president the of one brethren, on ¥iin sort"of “was could--before he effeet. still of up them including Association better He one course, Of you anybody. to in hit he'd before through. regard group a brethren the to regard individual Vtordthat envoys. influential Joseph to up the "Well, was he character, suspicious in him me, that'®ihe #fact'' tThe spite®lof the to oriiwords it fof® Teout up stand can't urbane told he remember I and days, brethren. timid more much was He the right stand a was I and Fielding, get he feel I Henry. to I endmofisthe sthe frighten didn't they "Well, urban--very as them but And least. "Well, regard with characterized He says, was that fearless absolutely says, (den'tscknow I but conversation, Smith that he the became WILLIAM LEE STOKES known as our chief exponents that goes. now, why And this it hasn't much." could to understand Do you is he have any for so Quorum the Twelve such John A. Widtsoce, had a president sympathetic the whole was called as to David into him Fielding Smith. h avenl O. McKay the some tastheMBfaintest, of Brother he successfully Smith don't There a Joseph in who And and no anything. in and you during scientist could against so the openly yet | I ¥ suppese was here was certainly which of Merrill who leverage this trained F. spirit, 'but was member 1952. church oppose 66 I good still administration, Twelve, with But formally died scientific influence could that then the knows wasn't I been both of the provided B who thought enough. years Talmage, Apostle?" Henry yourself? had as "Well, [laughter] and good many far have Henry our somebody an to out. feeling as "Well, Apostle, tradition science become why wasn't of brethren, said, understand why of the that an world supposed he one story: Eyring figure become the of Henry Now and more one finally never enough one authority and scientist throughout asked over, too greatest And supposedly WS: #3 have Joseph WitVshthie strong That's that one WILLIAM LEE STOKES thing, but #3 now that what I couldn't, God that there everybody to be followed It Henry I know. Maybe you Christiansen. WS: he Well was yes. including He an tell quite something. New Brunswick had in that had up Utah, and had Utah, and in of he work of fact, as anti-science had and feel bit go car, and school a about at graduate the for I to a year. children he came church besides, came from there, to Princeton. was and 67 we overlapped was part céntral University student He at lived had been teacher. came that history and to over he Utah, the time remember His I Francis at When have much, young Brunswick. that to too Church that thought. good know twins. could those logical overlapped Richfield, to had of let family, geologists gone part-time Then graduate of New in the a will to automobile. own and group set He Princeton in You own his grown little 1lovely his between sort did attractive was that he a he of maybe Princeton? had have foresee the we Smith us active maybe was and of a and mean lot me he I reign don't a Princeton, he really Brother I but Was at it be. by made can back free guess there, don't when their have in look think expressed him. would I can shouldn't have fully I did I his think of a WILLIAM LEE for STOKES one then year and war came along, job on the very #3 choice Production as Washington any upset professors without President Roosevelt that he back while I his to was anything I but I ILater he and I really be designated was, I But you which don't established the a close through the Um-hum. We talked the same 68 And of being hired he States he the opposed it. in thought he and happy of language. your the would when over friendship rest had at together too he Utah United career. WS: 1left, degree. department, was a that had whether he he that job know were think of a I the suppose I believe for that could--that University my don't head continued the to higher how them his War went think after got don't about to a gold was degree then and he that give get the remember a working finiversity, department. can to But being Then I at Survey. on, called salary But work do they a would teach to managed specialty even still Geological he [laughter] important. finished came RM: with gentleman was acquainted. commodity. professor. the well and His a D.C. very what Board. mining--gold than were at I it. Princeton professional WILLIAM RM: LEE Did STOKES you spend course, and WS: you he for to he an so had a like sort of married other really close you come Well, there Princeton student. they because they family must is at the Geological Survey, Were you looking other was in Depression. One thing all the three years was only one occasion year at Geological the Princeton, at we I remember that where I was a and you how did places for Survey? declining 69 Yes, concerned, work this have Princeton. last the it accepted already. Church a mind 1like your besides that His didn't things they that's something good the and guess But as in I I contrary that or hard children, in about? employment WS: back for a pretty distinctly married. and far Of Brunswick students, that wife as was three was married. a and, were not then, with socially It tradition and got New regulation just about applied that is It the become German I Christiansen When to year? be-- graduate things when changed or first between with time. law that suburbs. house married old lived the tough student on quite a anybody an him wouldn't on find 1like didn't were out with he you unwritten didn't time mentioned lived him think is much Princeton Well, to #3 days for at of sure the is Princeton, recruiter came Great that in there looking WILLIAM LEE for STOKES a geologist, Canada To looking contrast specifically; for a that with And have been blindest kind of the a job that was a However, couple even you that let I you'd me recognized of called study the a rest the agency and other an annual event most personnel) even going the civil in and build down geologists, 70 days, because that came about the of federal and as In it is well as those examination out of passing New took Jersey civil days which and their this the the Department universities, we a mind the country service went no had one was resources. Trenton, and it Survey, entire towards to how under Geological minerals fossil have your geologists the you of those map big remember In to (university coach about this some Utah? idea of has to get practically of return survey. business was to the their held specialty. this which Interior they limited like must was could back what faith, were I almost would blind there the it's which from geology. but I out employers government that turned finish joined later nothing about at somebody petroleum came faith which that it was specialty, Talk in in had of my it have eventually Yeah, in what just in field jobs. Did I [laughter] that specialist unbelievable. bones. WS: #3 they way to exam. I with the service WILLIAM LEE STOKES #3 examination, ninety-two roster for you be offered those quite a of forth. Since had choice become two a was of high But held offers to come out which was already written my The question about mind the that at a of field I west in university? and the which survey, you Or no would were work? 7 you be given there was Survey an and the I could offer had the weather immediately undertake I have I from the States so list, border. in to one the and you choose war, Mexican came that in a civil law to fact, same on all requirement, United thesis; geological was open and the by the In and put opportunity something out asked someday the become like roster jobs. FBI, from surveys the on the system. I on guard to come gradelat are names option mineral several from the positions strategic I just three His of Bureau Survey that high you required Well, number real Then or was or names. Weather ironclad it employer. border offers necessity job, the a government, job, that vast because RM: for three a my the with something. U.S. if potential passed or the and up of I points with service, the which had some Geological these mineral formation that I'd problem. interrupted was there return to interested a your hope Utah in story in and that your teach kind WILLIAM WS: LEE Not STOKES #3 particularly. three a years, return and to mind. I that, then I I Utah settle down after I been away now from liked the East, and I was remember it had such later when became qut here had my a had a overpowering and teach degree, don't powerful I that I I for think thing family school, no, Utah in my and all wanted but to originally would have gone anywhere. When WS: was Well, I couple she it your first took of was my wife years. Our scheduled terrible birthday? same as she my it a place signify probably hospital, and side the an next 1942. Tell me you about were come child so somewhere close I sitting didn't Instead that be there with take of or something your coming 72 didn't would The approached. I that, child like to at part the Lee, in I get the Ph.D. reserve graduation, wife sat that. my dare the came and Isn't about the my a children's come would was June. own to I it Betty your when and about scheduled that I was remember observer. day, been how so ceremonies. as first was was be and to Princeton graduation, remember or born? back can't I I'd to you But time child in the procession out to something It University must of the 1like have Utah, WILLIAM WS: LEE STOKES Well, I I'm with almost seven in was years. But way, worked a to the be on day standards wonderful and the Survey tired prevail, to but such evaluate rating. I high Of had did. as you the high had to the morale take But the after yearly in what ball they everybody reasons to was and a care of of string was St have conditions--the work seven called doesn't trouble, so years, things evaluation; course, have good high I bureaucratic a it sun when and and last take o'clock Everything for 73 before eight we physical the accountability, regard U.S. them, hard up in more got a to a the for supervisors, down knew to at was the reprehensible you You or for than of was for never more that. of I or There bureaucrat reprehensible work so now work to field even who not was and designation, went the strict but pretty job, like accounting, that it organization. things nothing I excellent equipment, a organization that began. and were hours in years, was because When job I people form, the seven unfair all eight to the work your or thought time that an honest, full for certainly Survey. We travel for shape, Geological say that's They hard-working, Survey to days, government. work. the ashamed those any #3 your the got that did boss got efficiency like and I their I never boss, got WILLIAM LEE STOKES #3 ehegierficiency deserved. came I up was pretty with superior prove .watings . Iinildked;» to theories anything final they'd southern came Utah, environment, south season--to survey that from came in was below to too far I that and had wasn't be the and Well, doing Geology told he word, but hired me us. was I'd a my this sort of work. very except returning at who the was to timid be man, from was the 74 a war, all so the really He time and when we that. I I of had decided going wrote to Utah to department, for that's would the place wasn't considered conservative. this no So of here's was life the order that University head an idea then, of like very by of and travel, rest Schneider, him baby harsh Christmas was there to very the no The Department, into middle That had that town a here a during They wasn't The headquarters, zero, and in can bosses. down the wilds. in. from wife for spent Professor were a the comes temperature in fact, in my me I I I were which But I and that of, River least, Washington bureaucracy camp Green the out work of sent thought: thinker, our some they December, free document. of say a thought with when to winter--in where or popular straw of about scientifically particularly to much er..I: a not never job. the have the veterans the veterans WILLIAM LEE STOKES education bill returning veterans their books, coming back overloaded the few given it which was from the had had heard that I was hired not for geology flooding into had little five feet, time Let and it any kind. possible were the besides me Marsell at see, who's In at and in even some other the members Hyrum Schneider? well, Professor a non-Mormon, 75 or proficient, the But before was was I do that put me pay be. in a four by had an in as I taken and the everything. faculty Christiansen, and-- that about possible of I tomsteachisthe space about who anyhow, powers I was consideration They words, I staff time. time of understand that a 1lowest so students me. museum one of the for was I any men simply But, Isimply. influx consideration other or bought was the maker. Mibut space was of the young in, well-trained, campuses the I and some specialty Schneider of instructor lowest Who of of trouble this office corner office an no to of guess Schneider, been the Professor They my influx I to tuition, application Sdlilke¥that, beginning thank a education department so his was have ‘anything and objections had ek vast The Professor an their a war. ways, the might paid was all by over I and there in job guaranteed and that a that WS: #3 at that Professor WILLIAM LEE STOKES RM: Marsell? WS: Yes, #3 Ray Marsell, Christiansen, think I one geology also "Jack those days Hawks as geology in of Mines you may have had a would with And WS: it. you were days Stringham, And in with Bowman we called fact, because eventually out of geology first came, none of However, they were to next of year when the School organized. some opposed having you had know, were I for those too, made I the that Put Snelgrove Bronson departments existed. Mormon". In In When Francis mineralogist. professor. another. reputation don't the mentioned have of geography immediately was name and was of "Jack Stringham. departments or effect Now I sole subdivisions take the mineralogy, mother way by included different one man Mormon", the Schneider, Williams--a Bronson we the these WS: and C. a included a five Norman overlapped year, Hyrum in as a a hired in since Francis but I imagine a good word at faculty troublemaker. friend hired these that he for you You members may have apparently Christiansen. had something to do me. time as an instructor. Yes. Just you two have questions time during about those 76 the Geological seven years Survey. to keep Did up on WILLIAM LEE the WS STOKES #3 geological field work Well, if be out literature? that I had of the the direct. one emergency, most of and his to work SerEn up canit in were work during Well, the States which I was more of a of your I coincides in New Mexico, in all those is in on the Four Arizona, states, Colorado, with and I T some to a was state of for temporary person to Washington, which ke pt up than I never my do D.C. S uptSwiEht on that in which did. S thie individual understood being you the Geological of the the Corners, suppose a it continuously for with most the getting days in was Colorado, but in out those to it. a jack- did field became. district roughly or be in few areas service uranium centers later the figuratively, or well in that? were consolation which some in I top involved directly reports, very the it back Sisays S that in of-all-trades, What and fact, that's go do field thing then notes but the years usual and his literature, And We The oI field, other. in so rather the seven work I'd like was to rocks seemed those field the you put It I headquarters. to 1library, or were able choice, reading confines word weren't my there either WS: you Or of I Survey? western Colorado so and the spent you Plateau, have Utah. I uranium more United parts worked country months or WILLIAM LEE STOKES days in do--I did Mexico, Colorado map and mapped the County. I also, but Well, I next time a than any the Navajo Thompson's had a few Colorado for we'll of other considerable in thank University WS: #3 area in and Utah was your time today. with my THIS 78 main We'll SESSION] I did and New in is Wyoming your Okay. OF And which assignments But Arizona, reservation. Utah. [END in district start state. Utah in Grand and Idaho field area. conclude career I at and the THIS IS THE THIRD DATE IS AUGUST BE AN OVERVIEW SESSION 16, OF WITH DR. WILLIAM LEE STOKES. 1985. THE SUBJECT FOR THIS HIS SCIENTIFIC CAREER. AS THE SESSION WILL A STRUCTURE FOR THIS INTERVIEW, WE WILL REVIEW PROFESSOR STOKES' CAREER UNDER THE HEADINGS OF RESEARCH INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES, TEACHING, CONSULTATION, ADMINISTRATION, AND PUBLICATIONS. [THE INTERVIEWER IS ROBERT MILLER] [THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT] RM: Last time we to the coming academic ended WS: of of How were This proves I tell you; vita. I kind of can Well, RM: And get it it's T Ethink up must professor of geology, were named WS: That is right. RM: Now, at that department, Yes. L Schneider department time the it should retired, say as an instructor professor? couldn't two years. I have it we're going to dwell over a it wasn't the full as ranks of in on my that couple of instructor, professor. you were promoted to 1947. right and away. professor, then later and one in 1954 year you head. was title an the just associate '49 as of I been in served your notes. have then middle you assistant here in the of my and 1listed in serve through professor it to if discussion and you possibly went Utah have associate, assistant WS: go I did promoted stuff. But Okay, long was brief 1946-47, should it assistant, WS: University you years. RM: a year instructor. before with not was as department this, there known were that several chairman of the head? after years Professor in which WILLIAM LEE STOKES there was a Professor held #4 rotating Christiansen it, and chairman, 1955. there So chairmanship, They What interest WS: Well, but and the paleontology my the been in of the extremely world's which of just the States by some were in along be all plateau. to of a of Morrison of dinosaurs. the associated So most And I up stratified my that is have and Dbe which is rocks, coincidence in of must Plateau, deposits and dinosaurs, and that--most the same formation, the the dinosaurs. So 80 research the grow Colorado display with weren't stratigraphy, fortunate this rotating heading be be be with uranium the graveyard would of of paleontology would great sort in major would rocks. greatest important formation, it the head acting. stratified with a became your would deal needed geologist? Colorado to or and Eardley called--they interest the came well-acquainted the is I years as a it, Armand that--under chief the really study as stratigraphy formations not held they few temporary under which under papers were stratigraphy formation, and when a categories and Still quite activities broad under that's they I decided characterize stratigraphy and and just you it, they were were would held then permanent heads. chairmanship. United Morrison it was a WILLIAM LEE STOKES natural ' outgrowth, dinosaurs, theses the #4 and on the and course, I've of with interpretive more of a of I You master none, of I'vé integrated, thing. there In your see Would terms you you of trying be one what your what look the papers work of have formations, to Of or formations, "for out? 81 say, so on tourists papers which on own many, a -and are many department as authority on way but to look geology out look everything on been it, for while were of be any you're are. paleontology more kind at should and problems what scenery and focused kind good formation. interrelationships which A Jjack-of-all-trades go at from the specific that shouldn't should research stratigraphy, at? a thought You and say of with might my a going the written by in couple do to few I've than to the you a recognized would and has things quite could always one ‘scenic then Plateau too, a deposits. step generalist, anything. ore small scenery. was and in bit interest writing deposits a have and the Colorado quite amateurs, to publications these of and to a pepuliarization® childhood formation, my only written things on vanadium it's associated going itself fraction uranium a Morrison formation large RM: then first you and looking descriptive problems in were WILLIAM WS: LEE STOKES Well, #4 stratigraphers thing, and that's establish the its its place proper this Morrison and fifty area want the thing you've in in to collect properties it's same got few square hundreds of are plains, and overpowering in the fossils, and So you're all circle the earth--some thousands of square miles. Some in the are origin lake formations, Wso is 82 the AT Gl the one thing. are cover not just different some and are origin some flood suppose of the certain tremendously of New measure thousands formations, and forER? interest we're it's or and formations cover is that Utah is some that and determine correlation a place fairly and in desert is is We establish places that hundred states. one these so thing formations. in in words, seven western it to which miles, Another interested as realize continuous--don't about to means other visit thing. to so one formation In thing with recognized miles, one Wyoming physical You've it be occurs. seven another, got sections, the it one will square call that of it to concerned And covers equal to else the that formation something Mexico so wherever area same correlation. thousand tremendous are relationship throughout wouldn't basically my the a or WILLIAM LEE STOKES Morrison Formation, Well, I suppose any economically and you others should in say important something understand, because when or might discover Now this work pragmatic, did get models, Yes, I which was for did a quite took up in as back to somewhat on article Stokes 1live up in theory to of picture that a for prospect And time, point empirical, in your out career theories or Age? the in cause of Science Great a of might a I That Age That on the of the did to be get these of these huge had been that rushing to climate what contradicted was same should one be It Russian But suggested were a Age. climate contrary and theory Ice Ice abroad. book the the the magazine. Britain whole dinosaurs 83 very formation, of desert. that to any topics sort in? the be that Morrison What ainEEa understand particularly wrote impractical time. taught paper and the dinosaurs Ice suggested the seemingly mental it are to working the received, and known in textbooks on subject, that lead well mentioned a there want to At involved write was how appears example, area. resources. descriptive. you if you you understand additional same deposits that's you the that formation, origin, WS: #4 it was the old around in WILLIAM LEE lush as green to most do STOKES #4 jungles; just what was vanadium you've to greater ideas that of in this in about that ever same West. lot And that. Is I did that had I have the uranium That know had forth you then to to and means chemistry don't put what of of fortfi anything formation. a and And hundreds geologists the back like. I've the conditions. argued was reconstruct problem here been climate origin deposits got has thing the underground out the theoretical with it and of any deal with some fruitful meant? Um-hum. WS: Well yes, mind whether whetherd it didn't a really problem ithtdoesnit. make has much difference practical HI £ itY%siovan in applications my or probllemj#titidsisa problem. We've I'm mentioned thinking publication. articles, religious other for WS: briefly of some having That your of various would textbooks. the publications. And you've national parks? Yes, wrote I National public a Monument. 1little I LDS such also scientific on that written and written as--would in under also church booklet worked 84 your You've for general publications. categories include articles the your perhaps articles that the include Dinosaur vicinity for a WILLIAM LEE STOKES #4 and saw while, that a I visitor that could enlightenment. I the Monument now I did write the Cleveland-Lloyd the Bureau and it's three and think of for as souvenir something written tourists which There is a those sold What do else year) a and the amount the of his I own specifically Right yes, brochure wrote they I on that for published it, quarry. handle--print park Monument. pamphlets ~ or certain the for little Management, at at that--well, Quarry. I those the Dinosaur or around at anything distribution booklets nothing a (last Land was available recently of buy mean for can't there I've written brochures, and for sell--myself. satisfaction in seeing country. deal with, those three particular pamphlets? WS: Well, the copies They is I bridges, of to consider e I've Scenes Be. of This how we things like that. a by-product and made to that the be soRcallled a get of I a call SERTEN over the Plateau cliffs, And the lot of and approach fifty Lands in second on this Stone. gives our isnttMreal lyfart. 85 one meandering to thousand and How understandable canyons, Messages drawings natural sold explains hope, mountains, Michael that called Came terms, sort one natural is over the My son what native = But: just I rock thatls WILLIAM LEE STOKES selling real then I Salt TLake, and at the looking fact of families, and and notice lake have see bees, and You there the wild thing, but there's not rocks that really are don't suppose very noble human mind going to so be thet write it. citizens Do But the Well, my my nothing Ehatls B for pay the we're three little if idea what at the that the birds, type scenery of not their look and the of of the attraction. think do. next. your I'd I that's To And own losing and these me, if a one you're peers, well contact with alilipitls like them ‘the to to. make cottage 86 all with Jsure..hAfter) particular centers the we're bills, up on but down on certainly as this books center I boil and colleagues important science visitors' it's the in what these thing what hundreds, around here them faintest are Great tell there the And coming visit flowers, but for who understand are as a of endeavor, public,# How some is get turn and could spent haven't at. to tourists to The tourists you the copies. year) nothing they've they of (last the guess dollars centers, the I and looking visitors I I spots, thousands finished at. that thousands they're the recently gazing the by because wonderful WS: well just they're to #4 pamphlets these distributed? available? industry where I have WILLIAM LEE STOKES #4 these printed, Grand Canyon You and or know a the with to WS: the deal Great 1little solution--I'd bit like to a little about it was the on slide, correct official a and disaster kind of there any potential just a vast and deep. and And setting. at lake of major a least a day as if so and various to curious for The a problem proposals that you I'd like and that we what I film of it had 1likes had made to know in the to to my suggestion a hole or two in the mud along and Lake was it'd the is the lake deep is over a sediments, thousand the be with The feet world, flats do lake. thirteen whole the about, course in was that's think has the lake famous going Well, was 87 Salt kept sediments, other the thought thirteen over had Great underneath no it tape. solution is not on the that there's just suggestion proportions. mere gravel somewhere orders incident. My porosity drill by I'm understand geologist solution? And I because looked possibly level contacted accumulation sand that very it skim, your that I thing about government, the Thistle rising, sold Lake. get and suggestion bit are Salt lake that, a Well, to increasing with they wherever. mentioned to then feet whole country, which has that they the edges see what this should of is the down WILLIAM LEE STOKES there #4 with the possibility porosity to absorb speaking of caverns, .interconnecting grains and about in spaces things these open, and wild suggestion, a and I interest. But I'll you These of have me which It you focused has been I major with It was learn could blast down. It's too sand could we just wild answered comes small and up a because or completely lake your your showed ignored. again, scientific major they articles. research stratigraphy. interests Perhaps background the with or nature textbooks teachers and teaching combines on fate as they're neverstaughtalia satisfied ever the we was not to you the can textbooks written. think textbooks, it the and my dissatisfied from. guess I'm pebbles necessary, drain historical have Now of which water mentioned the the enough attention. paleontology give if pay You've--we've speaking person slightest probably water. that the the will I'm If single tell of 1like let there's lot between holes. them nobody--not WS: a that a too textbooks, subject, paleontology and 88 something that rule fclassianismy the or much we have sort of bound to to teach worship to be the them. I il ifetvintiwhich * THiwas and that historical was true geology, stratigraphy. And of my which after I WILLIAM LEE STOKES taught #4 it for five own notes and figured and a as soon need as writing I least a H Sand a I had a me main some same old have new, thousand wanted in seo to as New get York, Museum U.S. SforthiSifAnd thousands, tens well-illustrated illustrators. sell my books, I I in but at big least 89 were so me to Museum of I to it 'Buti' it It had to was my fresh used the immemorial. “if ' go gave me a wherever I big and American museums Museum Washington, the pictures, I “couldnit the all with new, all in T willing they to at McGraw- publish And through know were ones, time Chicago, textbook. There "anyithing thousands don't the textbooks went went of wanting since National "I editors this @ book. authorized pictures. Field was and o0ld photographs. and that completely ‘tetwrilte dollars this, illustrations. pictures Eiigoing fresh the here I they have because worn-out Just®wasn' to my that the it obtain market many. because to determination illustrations, such write a say use around *whosiwanted" mainly money how to will of you began was I including to Prentice-Hall, give tell decided there sorts dozen I noticed all gise’ L iforth s finally years, approach. became couldn't half six that new it it, book. 8l for or and pictures, so was also able what extent this was fresh. And I to had a hire helped I tried WILLIAM LEE STOKES #4 to do this: I captions text. for I at a they will catchy the one. And So the does if caption always say about look he'll get the the old old gave me incentive--I about in pictures my book 1960, now print. It Essentials has printings, and has translated into universities It's been and I New can in Now a a York. see way this historical been and constant Of it's but it was used a had a all I now in good first me; came it's it and tell out still states, and many and you how used in. California twenty-five death, date monetary. been Texas after natural to editions it's and of History fifty if subject. out wasn't couldn't colleges winner dying in that the years, four good pictures were Earth And course, your of a books of it picture, it's the meat say through Spanish. many at twenty-five gone if the they'll a unsatisfactory will after at my textbooks was but look the stale Although they'll writing writing read read with my did won't but that almost I nothing captions, fact time as they And I much pictures sometimes the as students; picture. student read these know look spent and years, that's sad run. textbook, and this was on geology? Yes, Essentials When did you of Earth actually History. start 90 researching and preparing WILLIAM LEE the WS: STOKES #4 manuscript? Well, I guess huge o0il about scare, or petroleum, and I should out as go writing a route Well, put the out ahead same my I I a have amount of time on a It took use three there was went the for my I come summers. own to if I'd notes writing summers those decided three my I time textbook me classroom, me I for my money but a whether spend good was explore friends it, but there mind or my done help the took my making end. in time to up of were couldn't It make Some the that consultant, and taught own. to could in Although things I At incentive had book. commercial days. 1957. and time was produce the manuscript. Why do for WS: you a think good book geologists not Obviously, there The leading Dunbar so and much it at was then geology. was a But I time Dunbar from decided emphasis. if 91 was until alone. Yale a good was and Dunbar this time Were textbook? need. colleague geology Dunbar the at geology? writing his Schurchert became in great of and deficiency historical interested Yale, eastern Professor on textbook it a for there And Now put Dr. it you a by Carl Schuchert, Schuchert teaching is out was died, just can't too blame Appalachian subject which is WILLIAM LEE STOKES universal, as #4 it's zoology, else. North same no good or America. earth, defense, the United and one many teach was the historical turned out to techtonics plain walks other or anything should States, be just or even ridiculous. on, earth, so it's I'll people North America book geology be has first the on Here's the say will and good this give about South second, for a global that did many copies me about really publisher well, writer kills and new so meaningful and I to don't the or never 92 So a and those are pictures, and things. I really and the think know two anticipates, 1is is about Europe, hundred business everybody, talk between three That wi thoutis tallking forth. Somewhere thousand a and to plate techtonics talking approach sold. fifty What me: since don't WAEricalh America, pluses approach You yYeumdon'tihEalkabout basis. how hundred thousand. and what hurts the wused old in me attempts global plate idea. without that a right come, world-encompassing and it univérsal credit. Mine two as astronomy, that just all just reason everybody it's it's or even It's that and and botany, U.S., something own or There's eastern geology, book my the WILLIAM LEE STOKES business. second #4 Prentice-Hall edition, books. They binding one no--you it would year's that can in the day. The gets nothing. other So these, textbook. because but It's global basis, me studied could But sue it's a and market How WS: Well many the so other form of the for and I Well, Professor real Judson in 98 hundred on books I on a killed think I plagiarism. and they the dominate care. you sort regional really to don't textbook a guess, came people influential fact, I writer many outright written? of first-class from the three their have 1is or that and, world, a and wrote people them book had next pivotal written textbooks next Prentice-Hall nobody book on. the an free my on country was has of have how methods some improved RM: my and idea a in place no called flimsy book have it older used the nothing, know to a my have one the on you two I and in it 1literally say thereafter Everybody apart I been basis. such against gets I it Otherwise, of when copies, doing fall end solve with books publisher thousand book defense buy to were time. no them used a have buyer they made that about and tried a coup writer Princeton, and because in the he had WILLIAM LEE STOKES written a #4 physical minerals, and through landscapes, many Finsesure.s editions Butsuit increase of in instance, Well, compressed, and to geologists both must have historical and Ewolteoldclassical there'll they a be want many it in be many in of new astronomy, for ever going to It has way. say And physical geology. icourses. “And that are and so I that that that time we covers are "I & thought, they be astronomy, Those haven't where old to so textbook to the universities let's big mine, . Ethe compressed, geology and than with according and gone the " welly for two; to find going textbook? [END WS: a people one, like and had flood can't. courses ‘a: more student Jjust din It literal material have ecame sold a will rocks, i teorame s that modern there the forth. fields he is so has compressed, well since « that a this standards? want and many is all thought, and leccurred so how comprehend which information, discoveries will geology, So we I wrote combine editors it," book to and of so OF SIDE Professor our books?" Prentice-Hall. I became Introduction the to 94 ONE] Judson and And that They said, major said, appealed author. Geology, "Why "Go We ahead don't to and called Physical the do this and WILLIAM LEE STOKES #4 Historical. first And year it it really--it sold seventy-five FersRsEi s i nteprint ) oo, there were reason book. my better it didn't We'll say same we'll Princeton, we to on university an this book, good one. one we success. of getting gone third. But He'd and writer. that a we if resources, water and a better the pollution, changes, 95 new editions. Judson profits, at really would commission to the and inform earth things the is a now mineral hazards rewrite is a afford nothing. the And same public about source of our concern us all shortages, of the hope, only at but He's philosophy can at didn't author. we was things third ignorance, and and the than tremendous first followed Picard course to all, the university terrific I other in think one my two Dane the still opportunity After get some decision--he share guess we'd even it's I "maybe fresh, and his became And and for of Professor professor, he or into head withdrew third That an climatic he because perceive geology. like a I, course, time, so copies, success good department here, and a fine has anymore. excellent Picard a it get and write took had and overworked, want the very don'trsknow, forthcoming, philosophy Possibly, just have The thousand «but | I¢ books it illustrations, marketed. all and kinds, WILLIAM LEE STOKES geological hazards, and soil erosion, Toumesitasjust *hurts to ignorance people that live little more really WS: #4 of the ought to know a Have your textbooks--these then, what you Yes, I said FESevels® saw. there was which I may my anyway, but last Survey History Museum. then manuscript I've likely States real good classes, that it. been any textbooks, the and are students 96 for a all This publication Principles of be of Western published. behind. Even the notes thought in and Natural in the own, science, Utah Stratigrpahy. my yet. books of never my Geologic the s for course, in Utah Stratigraphy with of getting potential lagged of and, with textbook ofapUtah. consequence Stratigraphy they'll any published by two with about years Principles my set stratigraphy: success and earth two years prepared But appear and the being on interest to of have and States. lost about forth. terrific the geollogy: cooperation I form Stratigraphy United in I hasn't is 1long Mineral And it so book it seven "thes on satisfied twenty-seven textbook, but after wasn't taughti®the:r 1like did, be I Wis no are w“of so wrote? that something think and less United I had these that I WILLIAM LEE STOKES should make important I WS: and writing my should take Have textbooks things made, at #4 it's do, a of and valid religious them. I had that was one, because books, and I the more excuse I was figured they precedence. either of your two textbooks in print been used BYU? Yes, the Earth BYU has History. they've always there it I'm got was the great to rate is one as of a probably excellent scientific pamphlets good the other, customer. hundreds When they copies. So their own texts--good In fact, think the BYU producer other I The things Hamblin, sort more down of the copies briefly for Physical there, articles, you've beginning ironical Earth's was sold of writings 97, about than got which the whole instance, has Systems, my down has texts, inspiration and for books. he that. They're mostly. discuss--we've textbooks, prepared. professors I writing I the but of good But of of fever could religious about Essentials did. writers we my they book, that sure the Professor a used what those admitted Perhaps too a in texts. situation. written not been watched texts, It's consistently always ordered, be to out some discussed booklets and The fourth category would which would include both - WILLIAM LEE STOKES articles WS: #4 and books. article you for Church. As the a in. matter of and I Era when Relief I in being Society first it religious would several one was the suspect wrote and it was would fact, thes0ld Magazine, Era wrote? When have poems. the I been had one Relief Society fifties or--? published. magazine. Yes. Would Even that have been--was that in the earlier. Earlier. Yes, I wrote dabbled one Smith's thing on that's They and It Eyring should get series which called "In extent to we that some he the which was many of our would on I the scientists to Wheelwright I book called have of The that wrote don't may once board. contribute I an sure, idea Believe. Now, Brother School magazine big . that I'm Sunday this I the ..call I Joseph was urging, conceived Beginning." 98 us and and outrageous little call Loren an bit, course, and the nice Henry of Of need a temple, forth. under he quite Lake Destiny, but when and poetry so and was published Instructor, so ignited book, awhile. with temple--Salt Origin outrageous Henry the vision, Smith's in around know we to a one I the sparked WILLIAM LEE STOKES this, #4 but anyhow Wheelwright. after Henry this compiled have this incentive. it couldn't it, help pushed a book. if I hadn't but don't or with the writers that Well, doubt working carried as a book. he knows that a in an article. may behind this series was it he have if would go 1little mine It I Maybe obscure whether third and could book I with he never be if it, feel know would I been still series it explained appear Anybody I second that I a And never since Jjust mainly completed, as didn't it. than first, it ever it magazine. been Henry through--that further had written were promised published would he'd dealings had series and resented my was have the been second. Did you--the the Latter-Day scientists WS: idea Yes, and Saint with to provide perspectives from scholars. expressions from scientists that they could Eruses Now was Joseph wasn't outrightly whole atmosphere motivation WS: Fielding for NespmWel 19T part of this a reaction in the publishing (canlits Smith's answers format that Church book, may it--it but have that been a series. this Ehiis] that 99 to book--was was rightioff. going Itiwas on at alil this WILLIAM LEE STOKES #4 particular time. still it read scarcely My with change that just and gone first on you great deal thing I'd receive well it It directly the I I would a time, since. for any was that every exclusively and pleasure. it. about on received, of in had built contribution Did was a a breakthrough paper mental and That I've was my Church. letters regarding that article? Yes, I had And you maybe still a half have a dozen. those. Yes. Did Wheelwright Yes. I and, mentioned was know is black be articlie or mention one ... person Do I a want to 100 so at list, turn and some a forth, or of off? and I don't if there it has another I " shouild science delivered Genesis it just place which titled "I Well, never in own said, and you? his feeling--and organized was he ichurch ' outllets. episode speech a could ®with" was black after writing series. had I 1lectures you ago today," on but little of long writing beek series My not so--that %a® succession schools. a letters is particular 1list, to religion my this puts receive Wheelwright fact, in about proven Which in you what a others understand memoirs it or the big and as a high or Geology- [tape recorder WILLIAM LEE STOKES #4 off here] turned delivered places, the it maybe went back Russell is besides--oh, but think This it on it was in Those Nelson, Loren the seems just other there? where there the What was were Bonneville places. other speech other Stake. does it say I on speakers? Wheelwright, Paul Wender, Arvo VanAlstyne. WS: Well, I think anyhow, the we were c¢hurch except Williams. asked the my four did. And then somebody the next it was "We can't do out, and it That was the The Church preliminary not type, was were, Professor something to that the point and actually a few been printed. I was five hundred noticed what was scheduled for I'm not too but dare So had they in in or I serialized that said but thoughts Brother this." did in Section maybe think and progressed set too, behold, article is issue--do and we Church summarize low be reason, My been before, would other, some had some this And one well. of to that that I WS: For it copies told and sit where were section. mine didn't there say? Monson they appear about that the a words, saw retracted in half regular which sure, it it, page, and I said, snatched it issue. Church News? News. The type copies had been 101 had run been off, set, and then and it the was WILLIAM LEE STOKES rejected. accept why any News, before when he day, if I get publicity. He wasn't and course that he with I'm Does he--did you Yes, he me You have I have I can the gave do who always of know approval, fell approved So gives he subjects he promised me he'd off give his it up that it chair the next [laughter] brings the so edition he this? copy he but never in every remotely have thought. ever his and me think most, preliminary about on I to I than ever see a copy, preliminary so I copy? have that. living for that. it just place matter caliber end, how any sure teaches freedom And there. they explain better this regular to and broadcast, could If unacceptable. Campbell, his it it, do for the and most, why. got was received opened forgot to as know they've thing Rex ready widest don't suppressed. had that I ideas, friend get the my was my could day, scriptural Church WS: of it Well, this particular as anyhow WS: To this it's #4 of there Professor as that on with was. I'm somebody's this?" people was it But that only Williams's I two first JdeaD. 102 desk in was of the and end associated us name? weeded the day when say, "What you'll see the In the What was with. out. is WILLIAM WS: LEE STOKES D. Williams J. The rest It went It Do was How I were you looking Yes, Okay, they was were set think of about--were purged. up by Henry it. you contacted seemed so there were after of 1970 was. by to one me came those think in here one was we're series? whoever we had would at least series. publications, topic publication. too. to in for this a with The Instructor church an periodical. issue paintings. in on Were the vyou that? still 103 to intended out all publication. lecture of famous I for that separate publish at lecture contribution did things The available never participate I Stake different Era with to two was never the series. speaking a your you I it places. thing invited made got looking designed was and sort we're never dozen is fellow--I've Bonneville Bonneville Yes, to that a creation WS: a were In series other was we 1965, a the other it, Yeah, So the come thing here just the half was from was This Stokes, approached This at sponsor WS: that stake, it different a L. or--2 thought This W. remember--? home confused. WS: here you his Henry and through. indicates Eyring. WS: #4 have the correspondence, WILLIAM LEE but STOKES #4 #ithepyldt put illustrated by somewhere. the I it “forth: these paintings remember illustrations?" say, "No." because to I it so illustrate did it. the it's to just forth not in of creation the plants luxuriant all and on right. their To didn't WS: want So you it was just the and they at Since No, the still that time of in the this way they were shown covering or a kind the to bee or Well, I of stuff; plants came animals came Iisalkiidy WNol, e it." to illustrations, illustrations. were the offices. you of had nonsensical the Sithat® principal They hang church that seen with scene. before part in nature the I've wards, object implication. contribute WS: any I the bird that figure evenrything have didn't Just down to a with entirety FISiEsofcontrary ¥ tol and entire associated do «be accompany vegetation not the to to six to already "Yes." illogical and be me, entirely animal want I'd anything days were these told have landscape, herbivorous "Are they instance, forth, entire didn't the For blossoming And i|these which asking, wouldn't was that beautiful paintings churchesvand I saw have not them the the been halls other invited day. to ttorarichurchi... been and in invited to my stake. own 104 speak to Maybe BYU, I got and the different message WILLIAM LEE STOKES by now that into #4 I'd print. be wasting Let's my time see, do you quite a bit of I certain trying want to break another little episode? Sure. WS: Well, I had Brother Smith. he discusses a putdown, what, in took, I line, and the his mind, think, from snide his this except my for Of blamed when course he that. he In almost twenty or trying to you if think I him in the it me. admit The good defend these a his own member 105 he'd off to good And want "to read the me it. any subject a reply mentioning said, standing, I up made sent He Brother bringing without stuff. quotations?" seen that answer in nobody's "dildn¥tl man aside sent one old by and first completely pages--an you're of the I factual lines, and T And many him of show 1line blaming back j*andisol was was was where to 1lines, to with sort doctrine. Smith, he a way wrote because book in twenty-seven "Brother didn't answered horse foolish That He fact, the mistakes--how those wife," of Stokes, a notiiteihisitface for mistakes. many said, stabbing his twenty-seven in I in of was remarks. and eriticisms be was him, Eyring it how pages fault-finding about showed there to evolution derogatory, mistakes it took correspondence "Brother what answered do him, WILLIAM LEE STOKES every the one best problem then, #4 of at of my ability. the same with thus and Eyring in answer these so. this I'd matter made if of belief and cows and andf¥i I most mean and the references, and his was good out it Can ILatter-Day see it have neither. Saints scripture learned lesson. my That 106 to did. We if wouldn't and me, and me was wouldn't moon was you went change his I gave up, science 'til the And so the best you research could find, him'tatiiall js Andiiso run down really held good next Accept and time for the matter Henry so, It that statements they or him. with to or So to write up I lesson every to the but to member, convince big cheese. could up each never it good take things, wouldn't back theology didn't it, you nine-tenths my it if it put scripture influence would he thing authoritative I a the a green that you're 1letters but was home, was him, in if he'd on tiiwouldnt® decided that walked it figured the see attacked Henry cheese, and came But scriptures probably sure three read that I'm maybe green there He thing, didn't he different quibbling convince science dozen little could never that up I a And way. corresponded finally least very book all was And which Evolution?, little his water--see scripture. book of T I if found was called and it was I had down by science, turned WILLIAM LEE STOKES twelve to publishers. do with care LDS books, said, "No." we can't afford this wouldn't so turned on point I'm when the Presidency had leave the baloney; that Naturally But tbut that could excuses the the he people," Deseret that will get I any book that to would a there, while, as they to TUm" him. the this?" "Oh and, well it of as 107 the the I went one of the away by the read let# the over to the I was that published I by toilld by a said, General of written think scanned of and right);®thatihe was be the didn't who's "Take to and with no, questioned see it there, turned hate sthink somebody took Authorities was says, #still I I the general "Are you Authorities yes." Well, course, I Bookcraft, as: authorities, WL | think ¢ that'sWar Wi authority. at, depends And Book sure I that, it Book." Deseret down to offices SiWell, manuscript. for annoyances anything who such it's manuscript desk manuscrEipts it were the their the me outsiders antagonize General man wWEengy, had to getting Authorities. Deseret then there on. General at and that down. high-rise to so publisher And sell, and it The up Every less "Well, and #4 was they had turned Horizon, Book WILLIAM LEE STOKES #4 the whole Hawkes, line and point is that still do, that when the to say, they would trying So I to thought I had that at know happened away. I the that was Egyptians and geology were me and just minute in then, any my "Bad Well, I responsible think it I won't mention that time pursue was I this. book I so forth. I'm not sure I was them the while wife we called manuscript ever ready was came to couldn't of a quit, believe it that had really seen the still don't believe they did. the people personal for sure I didn't published, and it person my But my there was just just knew I But bunch and Your if when because And news. a teach Price, that while Plateau, in it. through it. with to I'm somebody read trip and to getting back trying motel life I this a back." manuscript. field the what agree to it Colorado said, sent a Arabs in was they sent on the staying up was of when know to through they down have I Bfit confidence, brethren last truth some. perfect somebody--getting would then Deseret experiences, I had to ever because it I still have that I'd still want to 108 in go think had Book. but ahead and I'd get named manuscript, publish at it. names and And I WILLTAM LEE STOKES thought, can't or get to write my next #4 the through things book a better and was turned down was important am Horizon for it. for It most of the but the I Twelve me, Genesis come touchy to it for copies. I say I didn't under "Ah, and the grips subject, with me, of not and I my paid dollars thought I was right and it the first and I saw seven be And then It I've to you Well, got went it of that to said most just of didn't was a back. I that go had writing people explains but evolution." copies Presidents accused book, 109 Crowther away to and--oh, myself, gave great! great it it got subterfuge. that's figured still the want too I've that and I of it thousand He T because Presidency, Apostles it printer, eight copies. am will First something printed I Creation Well, Duane my guess those copies. to I to or However, meaning published be seven got *En the But to thousand and left, to cost three crazy, just of everybody. agreed you've the Moses. I you "publiiel. and grateful who He FLDS if world. called that me: people, understanding by to outside I enough Book publisher. the Abraham most came own . forfithe" Genesis I your which the and to for Seripturet®was present impression WILLIAM LEE STOKES wrote--I well, #4 looked this believes is in Gentile it just not own was expense there in the so title in it, I agent for I don't or would proved to be addition know. decided changed But they the excuse accept would me, to let [END why to I OF TAPE] 110 I submit had a Jof book and would take inclined to the outright. book to publisher it. change did hint do with an it, a I Prentice-Hall However, the be publishing The Genesis Answer. me my thousand noe. they Whether take At bound, anything old for hard-bound And if out book Code. with more had a wanted that right. my title I figured be me hardbound copy. the Genesis, eight printed, would of wrote publisher and for found hunared because illustrated, Somebody a that thoroughly and another written, attractively Okay, it's I Genesis four dollars it book I The me outside. already And was cost Well, Mormonism So published do it. clear. do And all I an, speak? decided, anybody I verse seventeen te Could to and for by dollars, it stuff verse which that? version it first copies, RM: so quite my LDS good world, that my scripture. investigated which at tape. they W. STOKES INTERVIEWED 1985, INTERVIEW #5.[THIS ORAL HISTORY PROJECT] So Prentice-Hall BY IS took ROBERT MILLER PART OF THE ON AUGUST 16, EVERETT COOLEY interest publishing in the manuscript? WS: Yes. I think The man that had the a Jesuit. And I said, "How be they He to persona him. grata 1dke on He know felt me and But I it for working it would not. And like had out I the ,he How many may hope I never have copies way it of and he 'So ' I communicated hurt came like this "Well, I'm shocked evidently in less ignoring. the way in this he environment. going, with give him a lose lot called would--that job him me first of instead splash, his with a But it big Mormons it did over it, and again. him. out “but Jesuit thought continually own nothing published. didn't he as LDS *get or the make where really the "I more we to your said, And book in out revelation I in that market only to it a conspiracy this the although guess that a getting hit was cooperating. because him such leaders that turned out part--ignorance that we it somehow. conversation here." that was and ' Catholies' of one "Man, switch with regarded out their guess credit do the "my ' thinking, " and ignorance let you explained didn't to at earth-shaking." non I most said, be asleep remember are community?" ought were edition? wrote So I W. WS: L. STOKES #5 Well, thirty-five know really check the next how it's month. United I've hundred had sure. And right to and it I reports California going But States. know of got discuss this a picking back, throughout up over. because in So you won't royalty fact, it are I my sale for all And get for that and go I been people to printed. until has Michigan I've were Texas, that's sure for it's all now? Sure. WS: People but have you didn't wondered from it if a wrote a market. And all Jewish identical They forth. well And the religions. to as ours. to said, grips And with after books. One for Gentile I as Judaism Moses. as an far if I'm majority of my That's the as the even the six days believable, mankind book 112 for of it's in the as I non-Mormon because clue. They And chapters Islam so Gentile prophet. firsfi now And Islam big I pondered the all and authentic And so, include And evolution I'd twin Jews, "Yes, evolution." could. in so with they you believe And come and yes, in Moses Bible, grips decided under in books standpoint. I believe believe to book, as two could while Christians put come you another they these scriptural over mess. read a go, the is mixed-up creation and so believable to certain Gentile specific is called W. L. STOKES #5 Evolution: of a Scriptures take-off titled on Evolution: obvious stuck of The to two The only with that the Scriptures a few and Yes. but fifty I or been turned town by everybody. with somebody time six element, thousand knock the another book and The Genesis and by of that ten out It's down. to together critics, way suggest other we up came and fifty includes the real Time possible big Magazine, 153 Time. ones booek and then older than old, we have Newsweek, these they and they other places, hundred and And Christian and book where reviewers. 1like turned publicity review, a wrote My the and I been back. a would So magazines, between it is they for now on go fact, has right it. all sent It And It's me people with of be a right people rest let In it. earth given routine hundred , the publisher. a it's years About was publishers. set the Here newspapers, me Monitor all Answer as could thousand of called the books asked is turned possible send that props down lists we it's must publish if or And But is absolutely have likely kind will I fifty that That see, of me which pages forty to book not it. a hundred out might is three that appeared 1let's this No. I'm like Oh, that Say people. well-illustrated. to And creationists' title, hundred Say all a that Science the big W. L. STOKES #5 Christian magazines. just a note that sure it was had scatter-brained the was to had to sent I Aleksandr a And it columnist, big So I the on some Russian the syndicated and to as I But get my to I here suppose just a I sit being too because anybody that puts the for theologians repenting know. of on Harvey one and So here I which I've had sit Not for Nobody too much got that's too ten 114 it to gets much science do much. or out Hiktoondt a more, for little I manuscripts, years was recognize HEtst!s six think. that the reply. will have with to to all everyone, him. and sides maybe what own and almost it nifigure scientists both for reads bee T know signifies much that Sscot—FrEceWAnNdIe theology don't ignored 1little it and was Harris one. So it important Carter, Paul a they it and Schuller didn't as 'cause Jimmy and less much very column, was been--I'm ex-patriot, Armstrong evangelists. it's myself to it or end. ex-President Solzhenitsyn, writes in book to more disappointment money the sent out. and Prentice-Hall of lose review, Just come to ignored. incentive people. had more one thing. surprise and completely those book a me, probably who I don't some hoping W. L. STOKES #5 eventually Well, that we in come to back this of on and certainly you your WS: this of issues you a classify scope did Starting Geology, the as a the of and Western Now, how the geology offered geology most many as United of these special on talk wide And that a wide scope briefly Utah. of about What courses T taught Geology, the Historical Western States, courses and and are Vertebrate United Paleozoic States, Stratigraphy United Stratigraphy 115 geology ranging can of the courses? to two mentioned, Paleontology, department, up writings. a Physical of another articles, and of will have fundamental, Stratigraphy, Cenozoic have of professor? Stratigraphy Paleontology Mesozoic we University Invertebrate Principles we pamphlets you We in religious geology, the But generalist, Perhaps at course, and as a Geology, Paleontology, of as conclusion scientific your signifies, a publications. religion. of in as or your number with Introductory and and religion. teach your theme, yourself teaching that brochures issues in tape this books, out. use reviewed text Utah, this science fiéint major will might--we'll discussing session truth and Geology regular which may States, Paleontology of Utah. courses have in been W. WS: L. STOKES These time #5 were all listed as after year. that was course say, a one high of all three and And each level. this the States, left they should any my all have three to these course in take a they to like that as you win and the usually was the fact of For by my I had right on approach at in you, example, the in that developed conceived at best also graduate which might teaching different introduce you introductory, did levels, decision? and another my to courses were a department this mentioned taught subject I year I say And the catalog have just Eventually of these everybody advanced I were I at or to courses the was expand as the grew. some those that graduate. departmental conventional, In I in at curriculum Well, so. attribute time, department WS: I of of a and in you most course teachers and success down. Did However, or award college, enough affair. those were the shot levels. teaching in nothing courses undergraduate ér is But quarter courses, offerings school geology. one think regular There for uranium full-scale Jjust too agrees they should courses developed haven't are my been own taught 116 on the all. and be taught. Western United specialty, at basic and So I since guess I you W. L. STOKES could say Have WS: WS: #5 I they introduce been dropped those from on the my own. catalog? Yes. What were the many courses responsibilities were Well, things had I there. I was seventeen five hours at the same we got it of with one of the sort of in my thrust it an is to a each I ever some quarter remember looked chemistry been was where And you what part of conventional, research at and so a big classical university, which it now. administrator, head from your accomplishments 1955 to We SN can! tsay to over I do most. head word--perhaps chemistry have maybe department got in taught and observing "Have to How period I four through over from a by the said, us we and at seems took university supposedly two be the when was to getting schedules Well, which type physics or during which trying were professor? instances indirectly the a teach? eventually professors teaching to some was time. But of radically quarter, I course forth." As per professors one expected changed and place the you remember courses, taking WS: did when 1968, as Sthat what served would as you department head? i verys muchi i would have certainly aLal7/ you EdidS department summarize EES TS been as h a diE it more W. L. STOKES #5 aggressive. I'll academically. pouring this, was into in president's that It money decision say that before research, the higher office those and the and maybe would build up succession. They would make chemistry, they would they would make something give them everything. new And it down on the 1list, that our more geological had new basic hold the and and guess making one time and two we of it a research. I'd our had best five Professor held that grown up at where my the contribution and Eardley's 118 who They would them geology new they was else. here And do was some Brigham very Young geology was respected. figured that we writing. At textbooks. joined we things could was is so and I way considering around through nationally-used of whatever classical own in physics, under writing the out give professors all a Trustees, of mistake anything professors just out to About was department material is was in of biology. big new Princeton mean equipment, was times it something wanted informational I each happened and quo. sure Board out‘of research than 1liberal respected were raw status University I so am something They which around wonderful And just buildings oriented make professors, needed. I the hard government echelons--I they buildings, were us, and Mine one W. L. STOKES of #5 Professor the west than Jones's. as a else. While professors. we writing--as anything faculty. And was had a to generally textbook Well, I We were we we one go. let producer did there known build hired But, in more up the four new doubled the faculty. So, when four or tenure WS: you five you Yes. And WS: over in added as the an another Doctor's What took department department? additional thing that would that have was during your tenure as No. I think great head to had when the its a had when the a did during was your institute rotating qualified to you it a was recall? the We came out our own--geology departments and And responsibility 119 to to held Ph.D's. still here a mandates supervise I was his we guess that of because I in It Ph.D's, doing That head? Eyring one other were what you chairmanship. Henry And of administration. motivation got the Do candidate program. stream Ph.D.'s been? department school. with good is And were four? we Ph.D. they Ph.D. own produced that we first graduate start people the the thing held there degree. year period head something if feel I had motivates inform the always now had if you pleasing any was to strong me, public. and I W. L. STOKES #5 always took great beginning courses, that were able were building was a draw the Marsell. won't say. credit hours. But program and we well, way was Professor Eardley teacher. He with never a real coup of he was Mines. and he was head had as the moved the And employee here at 120 the same the Board we thing we also of us as a and stood one of was geology But was he our people. But he hired him to we become my had, Mines department. new did which was to position was Ph.D. support College hiring he a that Dean to was the administrators' the the I student pleased guess réputation up who and huge that I come of Pack category that and the big far in out things the and as long Soon of ready-made 1last employer Dean We excellent that Another that students. two satisfied fact The in considering in the am hours. nil. show-stealers had over I'm the Christiansen days, 1looking practically faculty. two up Professor we I credit was College of turning were which fill. real beginning And those And exceptionally didn't building some the were in were shoulders. first in Whether student Regents came had reputation There administration my in teachers--Professor Professor my we popularizer. beginning of and to on great pleasure Dean boss, time. And I of the was his although W. L. STOKES we #5 got well along dictate so I is that was not just And It and guess I am. step above happened a people that department honest men important. Who In .. WS: and be Well, that Obviously, and I I grew up our came Princeton and politics I we that it was got I our for. just I one that understand. saw the didn't just And after and is to biology turn. everything naive getting and asked it and it were and we with think department turn back, innocence the our dream, I fact complaining, look too sad came building, am the chemistry ever everything was yet the pretty department, everything that our could But saw it I my making would Henry got which or year, was we at to manipulation after got heads agent. We luck horrible which geology free before that the getting 1like Now Dean Mines we sounds being in list. poor then professors, a physics my on of everything was The not favored and he went School the getting left. what the on well, certainly everything it very acting BYU were seem didn't going as too expect on year was. decisions about which departments sponsored? I don't when you know. think Eyring. 24 of chemistry, you think of W. WS: L. STOKES I #5 think that--well, where he could just have to they would this started, with it. was a the beginning somebody, Board I of the guess sky's the had, I programs. of Far model which too was And Christensen Bell didn't seven turn departments: out was they departments, to be viable. chemical 22 be it. And the out Utah given of the he through effect, sixty-one that as they wanted it was with seven turned out. Pennsylvania of those the had in new engineering, at elaborate Cari Dean. some four he degree- of including We was in brought to that had was do '46 and organized one to maybe call it, But Olpin, and thing was Labs call before University it they and honest. because told grandiose, the Anyway from one or to would it. was university colleges And Mines And he Trustees they they limit." doing 1947 as of big And organizations. said, a know Era, he something school, Board thirteen departments. I year the make Utah. think, Pittsburgh. The whatever to "The School I got building," had but Olpin the Regents, of Their in new And still have devious, of University a this may eventually ticket. they're he year go-ahead granting own responsible. landmark Henry want And and who's his "I it. was ask the say, He course write do You of i And that as just engineering ceramics W. L. STOKES #5 engineering, mining engineering. In geology and willing to In never engineering addition, meteorology. change the science. me all the times it while came transferred the no, hours and had to told for in in believe where the more than of business, I of so. it think If in to would was we our or three should be belonged in Mines. that biology. credit And if hour it it had in put been country on great we was wasn't Mines college. have to existence Practically a 123 we student insisted they technical student they the a up medical Mines. Mines but the almost and of per an physics keep School not two whether credence cost was College to opinion, rankling And where weren't trial. just have there. science my are was they fair are We confidence, belonged, College which in the that we the once geology, be was order some We that chemistry, give me guess seriously to of stay to would of up back company But, I a in surely I geophysics, course without subject. We But of group. metallurgical were geology, that engineering-oriented applications. And place, belonged in pure there anything first and And us I back the death every other went out keeping expense of ours, and W. L. STOKES #5 unnecessary thing the as why I whole situation. We had going to meetings get always always so with Okay. will next made sit through discussed that pure with was it was Being the I all who grant, science, with the that And more was not technical or during he will continue I all over about any was the hodge- must have been Olpin, followed the years the problem, the the OF Park SIDE president with Professor that he was Building even session for ONE] as end not history 124 I'll certain: time. [END keep am to end with it to Fletcher. which invited That Well, physicist, about Olpin decision Mines? physicist. thing not so-called of another was RM: who a me or whole happy thing. concerned School was we the never to where grant éee things. So, podge can was monetary in practical told this some interested one I understand boring by Now and these he well. of this Eardley Dean to he confer once. today, geology and at we Utah THIS IS STOKES. THE THE TODAY FOURTH INTERVIEW SESSION DATE IS AUGUST 24, 1985. WE WILL COVER PROFESSOR WITH WILLIAM LEE IN THIS SESSION STOKES'CONSULTING ACTIVITIES, HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE DESERET PROFESSORSHIP OF GEOLOGY, THE HISTORY OF THE DINOSAUR COLLECTION AT THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH, AND THEN SOME OF HIS MEMORIES OF AND REFLECTIONS ON VARIOUS FACULTY MEMBERS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF GEOLOGY. Let's Eiagest activities as a earlier committed yourself of didn't asuias you I your have was on and duty at divide the go that when you textbook that you a of number consulting in. that into during the to Survey consulting the my work which a sort effect. I'm sure it was tried to abide never go back the Survey people you or government for should knowledge your had elapsed. And for me, instance, for so own it gained gain while until wasn't quite to back go at the the United full-time of an job unwritten ethically by It use working least into sound it. and legal I year, During for was while school summer. A and +sknow; activities 1947. in years to of was expertise you beginning law was note would:itlikes back Geological the E during I that for University consulting States a what involved can summers--and until But® consulting might session write career, we I the to your participate been think that in cansultant. during about geologist. mentioned sort WS: talk for two or the was your the years ethical uranium WILLTAM L. STOKES field where expertise in the #5 I for any that Standard 0il of that 0il possibilities 0il The pretty had under present in western Utah job, because that was dozen and I places done. lots of in places. beneficial to ask consulting the rogk so ranges see I And being summers. in the turned out But the Standard Great to the of us exploratory identify formations in Basin. some their job and that Great are Basin This so and learn so much got to in many much I hadn't been was the second I say, that was much a of Nevada. teaching. as go great geological geologist was into nothing but me. a 1little bit position. to get of there fact, It hired my my for interest in was to where In to eastern helpful work It got consultant Basin. and working And three great my years. or Qorking Utah or two two a fresh thickness a for using avoided disappointment. in way. I a Great a in So as was the of here the contract of came measure me there and over worked geologists company remote I much twenty projects work for time professors ILet Plateau California at be working, gain. time And to been personal Colorado during RM: had do so Would much specified? work And 126 about that for also the nature entail the the signing company would of that and a the involve WILLIAM L. STOKES writing WS: Yes, reports? all of outline that. of the necessity of standard was #5 of not Survey. work I turning in to that specific in «or: you depths, they little oil lot were a and you Not times as require much piin. correlation or of Standard 0il holes oil. And of But they I my home. Nevada it still and teaching. So did allowed found, ten great neither state that to these And days was in a me we the great for any other company besides 0il? a I Geological although required at industry me. consult Standard WS: for days the each in that found repeating The useful the be « turned! much any fossils also four didn't production. the and the expensive years. schedule experience Did of very do, I rough geologists And found many a on four of ton wasn't cases. or boeks a petroleum they twenty for specimens field had never else were there many very field; And three thing, to and However, compared so keep reports. rigorous drilled to expected the efforts, has was contract in transcribed. anyone a required Sjournal other was work One efgiay There field have companies. geologist served I did as a at a lot 1127/ that time. paleontologist of work for But at for Shell various other oil 0il by WILLIAM L. STOKES #5 identifying that was lot of the nice fossils work fossils that too, they because from I were got different finding. to see parts an of the then, after for me go okay so. By there now there was a a ways This attracted from the penny It and fortunes prodilced Atomic from money SO Energy contract words, they Atomic Energy T through would similar in the have Commission 128 a gold Everything large commercial of the flowing so-called in and Charlie from all stories of forth. the that I project I mention Steen, the wuranium rush " for * ‘the "uiisk time, University. and rush. over. so at fact, story ‘went ™ consulting Commission In the it and that- of And fantastic Pick over on. to age did going all was were millionaire place cCalifornia overnight names--Vernon rush great there made greatest by That the I spirit commodity. prospector the ethically Utah, new taken great people was stock. had was eastern Cinderella the solitary sides, two to a it totally uranium geologically outfits. a necessary great many into was uranium as figured back there because vanadium was to I working In okayed would go awful Great Basin. But And other by the out and ‘WILLIAM L. STOKES fulfill the through the I #5 terms out particular thing tracing the the for ore as main in a of the which benefit. And way the By the known way, as words, demand AEC ' for County, my was in And I of were I Carrizo the Utah. U.S. places the and tool the specific do Blanding These were my and then I did lesser work district near Green River. Here for were I wrote came Manhattan of geologists it 5219 about the same reports came out. Commission DOE. Then after there was technical professional Energy, DOE. work my in Energy Department became' out publishable five to Project Atomic field detailed much those the the completed Juan at channels employee a The exploration Mexico, paramount. reports new The and expert located. consultant necessity was that a worthwhile work, Tidwell reports finding AEC San areas again, paid Sadlick. was were Arizona-New in the I Commission. an Mountains, district be Jones Walter that for Energy worked and Professor deposits being Atomic contract channels--sandstone credit and with student, particular take that university. went which of was still phenomenal. is In now other I such And had a the WILLIAM L. STOKES reason with #5 was that everyone start a company. (Securities you can't stock unless stock, even of by including we our and we these reports submitted RM: In WS: I It what the seemed operated in was the it possibly minds of But to us one have satisfy of and the a SEC. around. professors together with a company formed to help in three of 130 F. little Inc. In people W. a this prepare prospectus to be formed? this. was some penny every geologists company for a and Williams, researched like sell uncertainty to their year and Eardley, for SEC. because J. was the have the Professional, to should with had several thought clear it's here. mean Geo and Securities of many bookkeeper called main the lot order C. act though Armand N. a by that myself, Christiansen, which I the corporation Even in companies Commission) companies weren't we--and to promotion report there had a awful small geological into cleared an degree lawyer up stock get Exchange Commission. these And to set it's penny these and there's a of All legally Exchange these wanting SEC So all I just the late or four our can't tell fifties. years. colleagues, Now you. And it this, verged on WILLIAM L. STOKES #5 something that professorial, and or might so. But given a And check a on the stock capital Geo have us since of things. of And well. mining companies-- some money be here. occasional much you were needed. didn't abused stocks I here thing in as because 131 helped Utah of the But out that must which eventually too. And on several for Smelting wanted properties. my here around (American they we afte, based jobs I to Salt penny bring dollars consulted ASARCO, o0il we the business branched country the so Company) into how necessary known to project, knowing pretty Refining here 1little took been millions otherwise Jjust a we reputation instance, many reputation and For generated I think eventually industry this of excuses penny has afternoon world. limestone dissolved no don't bad an administration The it the with fulfilling a on or weekends Generally, the economy. our problem do. I were Professional wouldn't that we well. used school a month that too ever other a a this: gave and in can 1local Lake, from professor And eventually away two academic frequently remains us privilege. we exactly still or say up into been it day I'll for because have consulting wasn't put helped WILLIAM L. STOKES #5 Nicholas J. would examine go really Morgan wasn't this, for exploration Inl fields in that on consulted consulted the a the Goosenecks and Horse the Point searching things. I Colorado River information these I on with get the a Great consulting proposed a good oil of the oil for and for the on And San also in 1like with asked Dead that. I'm of the me small National for down go to their request state and miscellaneous Salt the This a Park the the I Juan, my Parks visitors. others one will I minor State consulted They I Service the these I instance, Park of few Magazine. a educating for also in Valley a mind Occasionally Are Goblin and my geographic the for oil. anything River. Utah included most for Green I and be Interior paper, work park, RM: earned descriptive the to never the with out where or everything over of wrote uranium walked also others interested, turned I Department cataracts for much and I've I area has Utah Service. severai practically fact, trouble. U.S. an too say field. and writers. a 1little Lake. activities financially worthwhile? WS: Yes. But I regard the experiences 132 worth more than the WILLIAM L. STOKES money. It's great lucrative. But are many now so wouldn't depend How on work things if have to get would a university derive N theysiido Ssayie up-to-date much in benefit know-how that University the second-rate geology. I'm does have ideas the huge research get their if commercial far ahead rapidly, and there locally I'd hate they to that I have to you people. The can the into this ¥ infusion) would the the definitely University big even the 'the particularly facilities in the faculty--? back centralized to oil in just develop companies laboratories and the and ships imagine. to know know-how, go to the Thatis® geologists of the Does its mainlysin®sthe fields, facilities, latest its bring because or allowing having for® have need from siTt s of great you the lot this person universities, geology. Very scientists money as have a a saying which and it. activities? you sweren'ts in such from tibenefitc University Now, get work work. consulting L it everything of benefit cillassream .tV EE new out university engage not can consulting. to be you changed geologists expect faculty WS: #5 in you latest don't techniques go 1laboratories \ particularly the academic 1373 the oil companies people there to the of the Exrue in are so 1is no WILLIAM L. STOKES #5 comparison. that And and would update be when expect have to training it work In other as an on and to hire through words, are they do individual, and contract university. And University didn't over have of heart from of here true many professors, of your would of build the the government. hospitals students. It's U.S. government that the but and a sad itialso buy practically universities 134 are gain get money I carrying say will grants some ‘actualily and the your pay ‘to out. it's well-known think, controls we That's huge "helps the if but 1let's and a the that Your equipment situation, to school, too. grant consult contracts. professors, That and financially medical out important. sure, other go contract through quite others, people etheir'salaries, ! works and course, the thing collapse they universities, out another sure, star transplant the am Of how go big extensive becomes to which government particularly true I thing it's most quite That's in teach nowadays the university one could anything. in share fact, through learned the government In worth to we person important. it's chance all a them they that a basics. put what get knowledge, they isn't you didn't our before build but we rudiments companies they if assist when the research And those WILLIAM L. STOKES #5 that are people hired by researchers, and they classroom all. I at gane " through & university to are to. be trying in, I as an expert mighty up of . .from At precarious in Utah '=a university. the flcekings lat opportunity knowledge, administration recognize to consulting, faculty consulting members if they thel a has teaching least they situation faculty does the to with a kind actually get from of members to connection? policy the benefit jaspect! university important set to first for that administration congenial for show become think. consulting Does have University transitien a Refyeulsthinkssthat gain rarely the research It's university might think thaty ! a the expert that of is incentive involved knowledge in they gain? WS: Well, there feelings over consulting development in the too. he my this as a of artificial opinion, University. some of thing. Of that were 135 to lot back to nylon he more so too. "white-haired" was a Henry with do and hurt always was he contracts, the course, Going a fibers, always and him, had and government was heartbreak knew ever I Dupont, had lot very with always But been long as Eyring, And has the forth. And boy he, of great teacher, to teaching dedicated WILLIAM L. and STOKES were #5 not in these science academically obligated to in sociology and history, the government didn't 1like seeing the that put cause get all any didn't feel I did make writer. and I question. do think give awards for Well, think they mind an University out I I for a and too be a this no when don't give contract-getters. it comes more I to teaching, I certainly to attention write interests proposal your between those And really, don't 136 think when and also people, hiring I have I things teaching, to I answers equalize hiring in to research. when is glory. good that good those and many teach. to to going struggle who them, professor research. to to faculty money than whether tries awards the had they see, a wasn't enough those in money some eternal and You saw sure came dedicated them. know be no was that on don't all careers I specialized It'll and doing live research the they my that those they hurtful friction gets way. above up wasn't who was proposals. their that wasn't proposals who into I'm were as When science, respect of glory department but and lot they such economics. the best felt well, situation the a teach in and the more another The write to some it. honors could bound grants fields I the said WILLIAM L. STOKES anything We had into a #5 but two the what physicist, Chase of than not and we the build have government even depend buildings and arm those call more on fold that keep NASA. a up the because pay lot to student grants, to grants of And really there's had Olpin, Now, would to fell medical legislative would big the forth. you had was director so But that Fletcher. from and what If and the us oriented. University it's to Here with become came this. tuition to University academically it same the scrutiny. three and on are fact, category. Peterson Harvard in critical academic went fellows bear presidents, less Fletcher would salaries of things going. Perhaps you hiring process faculty the be actually the wWS: Well, explained the hired have became long and in who before, 1little geology wouldn't? geology I was we were administration. In 137 a bit about department. available, faculty the as a controlled the of me the analysis choosing as tell in position final would could who the If actually a in the strings of who What control did you department over at least members? department not on other the head, as favored words, list they I've of had WILLIAM L. STOKES developed school. there #5 physics, With came the a department. new Also same we faculty When did the WS: eohy building s Entshould a new when chairman geology about to move building was in into our to way. at pour five twenty the of Fletcher said he upgraded. And growth geology ®havel I begin building il ooked® ‘thilsi® personally by to wanted know he place, and--? up. the upgraded take “*But that iin department meant in is the o0ld actually went geologic hammer of surface Wesley are divided classical out to your and in exploration Powell. And categories. And group, so-called, who then 138 hand the there work field It lens. grand is old the be quantitative into did and the president ways. one and suddenly. mid-seventies. Geologists the into about to a totally every from chairman the and began went to really with building, things was in available inadequate we medical money Mines I the cafeteria other spurt of just Actually very this a for members twenty-five in totally built department. the geology been money of were old had time the we offices, then chemistry, increase The It inadequate And changing great building. laugh. biology, a with was more style of quantified WILLIAM L. STOKES geologist and #5 with many instrumental classical Eardley geologist was geologist. that spectroscopes I realm. idea to that's the kind And, process of men. So will say know that and of suppose the to with to at be it The was department, and SIDE 1539 fifteen well. And dined, TWO] I rigorous, administration the the or very to in 1looking through ten people OF was went pretty much department, he necessary. [END classical President the hire wined a pretty least process generally money I old Professor followed people hire the of follow modernize thorough. acquainted speeches, I helping I honest, plenty yes, that have. we of seismographs epitome I if Fletcher's for. the suppose But not tools didn't certainly And and gave come and to whatever us get give was WILLTAM LEE STOKES INTERVIEWED 24, 1985. TAPE #6.[THIS IS PART HISTORY PROJECT] WS: —-but must of the hiring would be have the ROBERT MILLER ON AUGUST THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL there my own, people were and was a the 1lot total somewhat of hurt philosophy different than done. recommendation come from the for which chairman of person the should department to administration? Yes, the last head. It said. I soft rock, forth, think to and prepared to So the of geology sixties to to but there who were had acquainted Princeton was I rest deterioration of the paleontology our gone new to manipulated know a it from this quantified, and so department practically this I'm not happened. sort of a classical beginning in model the late seventies. a trained to had it's he department us when went beginning, So now the of curriculum, and the the the deteriorate say, with what away whether school always matter called, in, nothing, was right so came Yeah, word wouldn't began head They new actual hired the WS: that including Did WS: say feelings, I WS: I BY OF have with in probably, deliberate more as the the influence new the effort seventies. to hire geologists a-- mathematical techniques (Eardley, background and and equipment. Stokes, be The Picard, WILLIAM LEE STOKES #6 Christiansen) faded, influence. don't half the the new fact that could never final were we were all match had previous gratis strong or influerice that. it a at The LDS was supply right LDS like to from million it, hire were perfectly and I case don't know against But as these a mentioned or before you many or we've or with 141 not not. come we up had not now to approximately LDS about the oFf population enough it to comes credentials, in Saints good if you standards. LDS there I'm a members' couldn't academic where whether just from ocutput not of this that When Latter-Day honest two just the no of Church fields. last put think examination forth, people result all is We thought Ethep total vote. to a EFact,s of went education people the very a our in to so wof spite than I'll influence the a about whose we would conscience was when Church and there time influence have process. got background using the in anything I've teachers to with Berkeley but head well, four down to And, scientists good do a ivAsnyafamatter or supposed of the Berkeley to chiddideen.t three from by happened, more should of it department University qualified how moderate all. replaced the steps that was know people interview entire in I and candidates, was prejudice going the a Now to say. situation faculty I of WILLIAM LEE STOKES twenty or #6 some, Ewenty=seven There @or were this new was in, to few old-timers LDS influence want in the Wil o of to maybe at course, such Eardley, WS: WS: if to classify him And what his way people made that some where as He Church. a we effort lot hired to or from Daniel LDS. than on, for in hundred when of I the there's no a Deseret long time, members along with I were family. the Hyrum Christiansen. Jones of of Pack, faculty Mormon Jack religion this Fred the of situation--that a active Daniel a a to Francis Williams got Epsicopalian a percent more had joined and came not You were you Williams was faith exceptions bit Talmage, Norman He think. LDS from hanging little Geology, LDS, about the incidentally, then Norman went With a as who's the sixty still professors Schneider(?), we or department. of the Church; know just bred ngeasas); Professorship So of to. it's all. pursue geology are trying none nothing. technicians, I'm fifty that the ¢And people. almost to adding absolutely batch LDS then thirty. none, percent I and don't LDS. But you've Mormon. Jones? was a In fact of us while bring 142 in very he devout was in more religious For in our way. I was there, an man Latter-Day the I guess Saints his in few I if WILLIAM LEE STOKES it was at Maxwell #6 all who reason possible. was feeling of the Latter-Day Saints?" And he Maybe tell the that's best subject man? well, but environment, in and even could join including are they So you of even the to to community ought a total serving the you're trying world, and you sort Mormon to it 143 can you knows his for and fit whatsoever, take on Now tell. a position in as an that it who community; impact this wouldn't university the could that the policies of exists. and I have University predicted at schizophrenic population can't best never possible, the the of that community if the man can't the hire Association. maybe an compete just You the problem, of people saw have of the who Mormons ways serve disintegration because best men? who which horrible another of in be people, to university one any to How organizations serves and way. Geological many in a Neal there Hire choose about of asking "Is "No. in many local kind which bring not local Widtsoe with It's the in identify the may less best institution ought might hired our would similar You care any said, downfall we remember Administration our he and I vice-president, or man." WS: the But with do the both. at one the time or requirements the same outside We'll have time academic to let WILLIAM LEE STOKES the BYU yet we #6 carry also the get weren't for wouldn't exist. so from home "Well, Mormon?" "No." against this, what's that, and who pay the people who misinstruct a very in the So you with see a an Yes: HiEswilllh program to hold up outside don't think I agree the or is on Mormons prestige, Beats of mentioned University our world. Mormon salaries satisfy a he's didn't the he me our what's continuation of this problem and perhaps intensification. the eyes trying Is the high He their "Well, I children. that students 1like? among the Peterson. the atheists, the Now it their discussing fame their and receive believe?" and if happen. even the and and University imagine of possible community to think it's and other." taxes fact, agnostics, he lot In professor the tightrope, credibility going a President thin the school the go just does gentry But here. parents "What church students, can us to up students I getting disagree. WS: the that's this a Mormons their courses. being non-Mormons, And to of Mormon And forth. going many our instructions and banner onlys things of the pretty haver that tor we common well getiwoerse.s do faet, are all that citizen, the artificial typifies 144 Ins it. Is that T donit glorious the in heart thing WILLIAM LEE that be STOKES people want curing more #6 the put common practical? department way government with first much of I a state, could go down how the what's the got to depend BYU tries to me from it with a views we do be that forth is of don't And things. know. don't Just if it's know. The grants, but with universities this cards. different rate pretty in university not the geothermal the government was from will, I our expensive this in grants? without might right I a that so of these, it big never financing who the in that department number Geology, of have you others of reference in least at who and powerful 145 back going question that and Professorship have this Church Schneider do a that dozens just 1950, seem the again, would thing contributions other you to would it Or similar work with grants. ask 1900 in predicted that along of big and it to departments the into government get something finance through on into? geologically public departments Let went not answer government and significant just their me, 1loss, It's Just or say total money cold I would have energy. you energy. and their Beats particular geothermal RM: to not a had to to good Talmage and carry the geology, rapport Pack and Desert but you Authorities who only General religion, that, WILLTAM LEE are STOKES very #6 amenable methods, such as Merrill. The Hinckley telling and he never he who his was in 1950 comes after now Fielding Smith caught in ire some of wasn't a primarily and of powerful the before. you're going that now, ¢beis the that @ ¢ Now you the It On to have he earlier may fair s in can't not have 146 a a Eardley and a don't influence And it seems the one hand make very and the Joseph that you're you have your time the .of the which calling It seems satisfying history been I'm of dubious. difficult of have Authorities to now group longer, Gordon that faculty any writings Yet But Church have he's Saint found you assessment . the and yet in student experience. General a a and seems Gordon since. still the and Latter-Day yet department where anti-evolutionism Smith? others. bind. there University of double in anyone the as religion Christiansen, with position that and of Pack, prominent Saints, Widtsoe mind Fred and joined Latter-Day relationship to delightful you've thinking and and Francis committed a scientific problems from evolutionist and that from comforting had geology course the and comes he courses about an rather that and Talmage again me the worried science again, example took took to of case. Would the | impact of Joseph B. Hinckley the of Fielding coming WILLIAM LEE STOKES through your class solved, because Fielding Smith the wWS: #6 problems Well, I irate a as into this don't or my way it came condemned Francis why of to such as And I come "Oh no, you science "Stay one of courses away it me up don't from after it that down to (Ehel what that President look at me, of said, and as those courses. the department it imy but the Smith had the devil. occasion when Smith, our asked R say, President who President i gistiNeo I another like he many anti-evolutionists, to students very although emissaries and these given right was as about I'd careful says and Joseph intensify recall student the I my now students, remember you problems of say don't one be Christiansen then me, that better don't says, I to ' IsREthtilsiligeR™ back [laughter] what disturbed salirdi B I perspective know mind religion it. hotfooted And his professors instance, student lecture) sees critical SmatEhSand S the geology he For lecture And the parents flashes having from really problems. and "well exhibits." I won't him was Don't He come." about these reported take them to at aDIESY So with or the fate without personalities in of the the really coming and going church. You couldn't 147 went of along strong get any WILLTAM LEE STOKES higher the than Talmage department, gentleman, that so Pack was and more over understand that of Deseret University, Utah, was couldn't of it tell and you University, and the said, you'll 1let us department," geology as forth--as nowae a built won't in the those of a threat ¥ shiiftedd and so forth, to little selecting piece Pack Deseret the first downtown. I seen pictures the Deseret ground. But you any rent if of the geology they perceived and evolution and so the Church we do than Bthe W historiansirand and to the philosophers ' for. thel useWof had a of property, they and Schneider, but 148 to University church days to pakticullarlysivBut & indireturn was you the the of head I through See, I've charge time want ground on more the of beginning threat--geology whenassit s sociologists but the over run it. is, designate more to of it was because try plot the "We "I beginning where it me, have understand little was told held, called taken took of Mormon all was I head a they I'd longer the a that Church I and when to first certainly wish Durham no the what But going as on I this. I'm history of was and we this was Schneider, Homer Professorship." he Schneider, about and and Pack Professorship, learn called was; and and is Deseret to #6 in the “that voice in meantime the WILLIAM LEE STOKES #6 University, on the probably, Church, moved up rest its here. of the So ever changed where they forgot in plot any and University or force to be Church Chair bequest or and along that more ever over minority nobody When they books. it didn't and ever I got knew I up here, it any I was it. the tried any be well think 149 might that they an or call I own the and the the Deseret as I to it. The call it, or could the became to up. to was come make one that church or I out disturbance almost a active member, criticisms a know, anything professors in aspersions you I set persuasion one slightest I it you first the the when do guess whether caused what I money salaries with Even heartily pay any situation no far what all ever very big, was So any a wasn't didn't continue died. admire still into to hold I cast there to the a in and with originally interest just have of Church anybody went. religion. the in there kind with property melted were any endowment nobody was contributed associated because know, had it didn't so I things on and of It consulting little sort as since put statement. was how even this hands. never Deseret else, far moved Professorship, the As longer had sold plot event, no without the city. money But own sole on me. religious kick, writing these appreciated me probably WILLIAM LEE STOKES even more ever feel end of for for the science, and Jones they heard that they I and slurs time, then and decided don't First who I didn't holding that I was all associates. it drop think it As die." they died up my fighting right Maybe about behind LDS, but I never guess in '48 or my felt succeed was after for of solidified was chosen as department You mentioned University. the Armand settled Eardley in the Germany. name was He you kind of a Church was it. a the of the Let's period was only School of Mines a part in the can talk about of when that I head. played you old and he himself a with Tanner It an a up there from state, was was the forget awhile. the Perhaps came let's Schneider kind to and Brother "Just chairmanship Eardley. there taken remember that him, ever said, Armand apparently, around appointing-- I So I when, would to Presidency rotating his was felt about £hat's of Authorities. to I knew really other Schneider discussion WS: so made Hyrum let and because truth. them. Now I scientific disrespect science back defending any Professor WS: #6 pioneer graduate of legend around 150 was coming his of coming family that a missionary Princeton. Princeton In fact 'cause WILLTAM LEE he STOKES was a very Michigan came #6 good several along. individual student. years, maybe But he the faculty to was sWasatch#irange, dissertation was and if was was Armand there It occurred work he lot more than to There be try to and no that never was, Dean the to wrote his Doctor's of Utah, was don't think suited not very of head us here to his liked 15 of famous favorable reply make it the department. He to think long until Mines, which very qualifications, the to first people some and the want I But want range. for remember, a here. even Wasatch a of were anybody I College the he as had although think from head might roots favorite of carried was he his tired He he thought his far wasn't be job a Mountains, geology might I Mormon He well-established, him was he of I where this so he at before known Wasatch because Thus came he However years fact Michigan. objection And soon in Utah wrote clear made to get I he teach Princeton. on share camp. geologist. letter a ' in that doing closer was me his back to still Southern expert to was field come also an ten to Eardley. the their the went even at Fotalenasthe on He was. he was he I don't and particularly. I it WILLIAM LEE STOKES Also I'm didn't he sure think he He's research, the So he have WS: that came. Mountains, RM: #6 a added Yes, he got, you back at America. it of the was WS: Structural believer the had into translated thousand ruble. on his Wasatch and I of of done almost copies were into for he this the would had out to the the work rank and as one field. book? the America. drift But he which field. Russian which to His and he pay came book not in a and eventually Russians printed didn't him was everything the But nothing. 152 we being all practically willing and different got that that here for so of structural done was in verge coincidental came it's books North in the credit suppose the on just book continental it They book he this great name the was the demolished geologists how was geology that all And that literally This he although Geology in in It's year say, half-dozen What faded the base, influential That's Lake, came North Michigan. RM: he important so son. Salt an home either. people prestige. might author's mining forth. when published the qualified reputation just of of native so good publishing lot Great some and geology was a and had a get if he'd fifteen a single go over WILLIAM LEE and STOKES buy mink fifteen not his He they Yes, I man that one thing. WS: first and then WS: happy see not only I and others Ph.D. work, and we Let's now move to at Utah and beginnings of the then the time Well, for to Utah a lot Douglas had Douglas these out who been interest really of of we had went into but you for the out the might Eardley in know and the directing in the about the Pack, and dinosaur it began state with Earl Carnegie Museum which Carnegie. Their main Tertiary Basin short something, 153 under and-- collection called was ran for involved. Uintah he a green. Douglas Andrew with or be it. brought experience Historically by Somehow enthusiasm of collection, financed begin kind dinosaur should if program, smattering get out Ph.D. the you bragged a ahead. what then It went a Russians come. pushed working to had coat him were for mink the and of him a students prestige reasons. was things. us extent kidded way book supervise of the bought the their that up have was to to always teaching Ph.D. museum I least that rest added The at truly The and his very could things translated were was that rubles But They that and could wife. operated. So coats thousand going. for #6 and of mammals, and to--looking for material ran wandered or up into WILLIAM LEE STOKES the nearby the Uintah north. I Basin, know, at doubt know, he if knew most of did find it, and had pictures built had a a here dinosaur on worked somebody took pieces out of so ledge that if parts of I don't it. Columbus. coincidental been found in and mounted or seventy sixty Carnegie didn't had In fact, seem to it have picture. As across it, "Get me So and guess hadn't three weighed quarry. they bone- would them to have off or eventually they hundreds A proceeded they hundred in Everything called because one." working Utah. the out I already in up off, 154 bone this Carnegie together of Andrew here least huge saw sticking at out he opened them called was he found like Pittsburgh. and outcropping. forever that in the finding cleaned flunkies out they was It until his was lot been it. wrote country coincided, work it he one a for already had hall the from to Monument. he coincidence in goes, was bearing put but museum ever report And of echoing to story by he credit had them huge large anything the and did shifted Mountains how the dinosaurs of he Dinosaur found. one just he gets and long, or the he'd words Uintah him, Wyoming, feet the but is These they other now he what things. told what but in into who don't deposit He mountains, Just that I #6 dinosaurs of tons. in All WILLTAM LEE this to STOKES had to the #6 be transported railroad rough road. starting But had soon filled and that still dinosaurs was happening all of our to a and a small grant, at the time Golden York. a know how they and years. In specimen, state to the the take dug process In to see more noticed what an We But speak, they of how we venerable fossil. 155 did of receive This his was assistant Vernal. He had but he did education, quarry dinosaur much. and the willing a Utah have up were So dinosaurs. the won't towards Pack taking stirred for Pack hired or three two one very good Allosaurus, now our obtained fact dinosaurs, they're that native out at you Utah. know a of so Utah Utah where don't smattering only of sheckles was year Sprepared. with "Wait, so Professor York pretty after world, where of University I of out extent the year a down else. said, few still “ner museum Vernal Pittsburgh. the place and the to in people dinosaurs divert him the and to project, his the dinosaurs," lawmakers up anywhere then is Sunerated money from material back the is than About Salils all and went wagon which this 1918 isnite Carnegie Price, all about SERSSEINEE any at by Utah WILLIAM RM: LEE Just STOKES a #6 moment. [END WS: OF SIDE Also some miscellaneous what they call either to American the the Dinosaur the appearance In was Time the fact it of in of later deal was Literary Digest That was sold the a very made here day. of to still specimens the its half or was great these was magazine a was Museum, digging but instance which National proposition, campus. for Barosaurus, expensive first pieces, U.S. Museum. ONE] of on the which the basis gEfousnEirstacolilectionk Who owned Carnegie WS: Well, was had in As when we those days land, soon as their Monument. all the Iquarry Woodrow to about the it and permission. exploitation we States Rather the moved Museum than leave to was just in make the they hundred in a it few any in, but in the and a It in came situation came possibilities 156 to finished Wilson three needed open buf land, dig? United thought government hardly control Originally thilssvilbiittlie enlarged to Carnegie to the President he this requirements. mainly vandalism, Was really finished filled cover land? permission public way. open, the and site prevent National acres around ‘administratiens decided it square miles so as vicinity. If other the should of be to WILLIAM LEE STOKES quarries should control It opened, exists visited and spot for to be a way they was in Utah. good thing. Colorado. some It were able to and so Most of how it collecting very sometimes, in That's years, has it's ranked the with most Temple instance. The University the Deseret "fossils out that commercial Monument today Square, and turned ultimate with be vandalism forth. the #6 may Museum, came Pack have from and inherited but the Now material primarily work York. some of the did its dinosaur University Douglas from of work Utah for the University? WS: He worked for eventually got ever him, know through another not dinosaur competition. deposit down was first he the took out in the he one about to Pack five 1857 was Mr. mainly York, first few years that they could thought we to know there hundred I curator could call or that bones who and I a was find our own regulation or about don't we didn't a County dig I as pressure came Emery specimens. with that any and there Pack quarry How other time, collection. that under short 1link still for is a his my was story be of dinosaur collector The for and Pack, dinosaur and some this outlived here. Pack the know, we know in dinosaur but of, about York and 1928, WILLTIAM LEE STOKES #6 298 Where did the--I Historical WS noticed Society those transferred Where did Well, we had $5,000 we bought the With this Princeton. started the come in all, come out of the star in publicity physical Forth? the it's been project the ed a was Our source of who I dinosaurs. And so it University, had were or numbered less told Madsen, at that BYU and for a the the he 158 people second been to and so more And me the to that demoralized, care place the less new about around type thing. of curator the at paleontologist--his department, better the will--by Cinderella state bright covered. out, could By have gotten ever you had and basketball amazement who here a that had no for bones fact, had had up project. once me for suppose become became told what back was In pushed it head, University, project they absolutely Jim to dug thousand quarry anything had came ten publicity department when that I dinosaur University. disintegrated--call But I Utah department than State fossils material of dinosaur recognition Utah material, background guess for their so I some York excess quarry. shining the original University all the from? the now, recently look and he had elsewhere. been When the days more he WILLTAM LEE went STOKES he took So for the a collection long in Madsen's supervision. curated state he may find because that willing the of Utah which was campus. an And residence go down to permanent, the Tell museum up old in discovered went the Rio the BYU or used came II Grande do we heavy have a in it a matter specimens, Anyhow we it were and it to the University the bone barn, the upper and come were So on had station. we a like so small barracks downtown as give want up it and no called where they and how BYU. War it a out year Now it of or will hope it will be large building and hope the continuing interest behind the development it. history and the formerly World because the to and it, looks and space. it it job, many of County, we But Jim to treated it's that lot down what is. way, 1like Emery takescarerof me a did and present the locate it facilities, wilil to then two it, were under dedicated collection by bones station very about the take into was his and, in He of take ground Grande out they to dinosaur really place they the it home, a him. which preserve permanent Rio wrote graduate to glad o0ld and treasure, order to the with time, downtown and RM: #6 many for of the 1159 the bones reconstruction which of of the were ancient WILLIAM LEE STOKES animals WS: Well you I of was a a was This and geology wish a I I room building The on WS: more which building. This we a the was of said, in mainly Just the Young of the from the old of history bit there was I then the old biology in the geology museum the casts nucleus also museum In between the I lot Talmage. Brigham little as occupied Building while I cafeteria, was the there. first one became the campus. building Well after was it that was Building occupied Department. But there space was the was a there the extent in? by Arts which located abandoned Performing about as preceded which What then But a commercially. was a that which and plaster the but BYU about. by divided that's served Geology the and Museum, old and time, building suppose, bought the my biology I know, at before Deseret things don't Museum, knew the Deseret exhibit Deseret old eventually of University the wonderful was University Utah. was together, other this at this was mainly reptiles how in brought were here and room museum. it it displayed understand, there was #6 was eating a five hall couple of of until it 160 geology it by thousand in this kitchens, the WPA Theatrical square foot building, and and was that (the Works WILLTAM LEE STOKES Project three #6 Administration) classrooms the cafeteria eventually they moved the the and Hall? It this five Well, what origin of square centerpiece. miscellaneous had the was called Now Strevell of the he and we same the one they merchants or things, just money, and obtained other then I to fellow were We of a how a things lot it got he of such 161 Earl as for I space the Mr. York as the 1lot of a Museum. which what Patterson was prosperous Mr. rat. don't Douglas's Strevell sorts all But he know, other credible collection. Abraham The of collecting pack glorified when Kingsbury inherited town. it home Science and in vocation, of make extremely here while contribution did. Was the a Strevell-Patterson was and hobby had that by where Building. became Earth notable a Geology by the was available mounted had called year the And know. basement was to aggregation exactly the built attached This there area they Building. enough another came a also stuff, which hardware foot Allosaurus We that anyway, upon the offices don't depended with another, I in was and Geology down dinosaurs We the along south. was thousand exhibit the cafeteria cafeteria Hall. several on became Kingsbury had and céme had but material Lincoln's WILLTAM LEE STOKES doorsill, all plants, of and his or County coal was the In it I'm on from was Strevell promise for many the cafeteria enough Another made to Utah, enough a Idaho, wonderful give the and fill to had area part the a of 162 stuff nice huge to Wyoming. For Bernice children a got much it. But was in by relief Utah map Power around gather view a and area of Anyhow, we had years we had many Smith, guided and museum. contiguous whole his didn't. mountains the space. secretary, school used kids the but was and dinosaur, serviced showed and Lake, Salt of small or exhibit we our which center we would choice with a we the it because that make the And Light. and his along thing we what building died, couldn't, years the remember that we to cover I Carbon building. missionary disintegrated. had occupied until words, anyhow, was there and Church other say o0ld new a to it sad the he building, become the which collection School fossil centerpiece Emery to collection of the Lincoln across down home. His the tracks from mines. pottery, But dinosaur collection closed Indian animals. scrounged right This of fossil called, is sorts museum bought was #6 that tour, would and we WILLTAM LEE had STOKES thousands when they the 1library Library our This Earth Science nucleus Again that Museum poor stock the new it you started No, but it Science this I they of Natural dinosaurs, obtained is practically and I Earth would we American anyhow the how horse) the in would Science have had nothing a to facility. called the Earth Science Museum when it? appealed, should have and its the own administration name, which was Museum. was or there of That from for organized, formally I down been But been ten contents (Primitive History. a for Cleveland-Lloyd had things hadn't to was the that beginning, Was And it which very that RM: Natural if from then space Museum Barasaurus. fine Marriott The Utah thippus other of old new guess, centerpiece stuff an 1little Museum WS: some for several RM: thé was material the dinosaurs plus a of Now, that library feet. exchange got old square was quarry the the thousand the it occupied up visitors. building I History. but the of amounted, old became thousands and freed use. fifteen and abandoned it other say #6 open to the 163 public for tours. granted the Earth WILLIAM WS: LEE Yes. STOKES We took extremely How We great the museum in the for grade fact school financed? Was that it was children. that through the department? received a through the It around, was Marriott the pride educational was geology WS: #6 very geology small what, Library, Science auxiliary budget department. '69 when they at that point, and administration? Earth yearly When Museum was to the Utah moved up who name to the took over changed from Museum of Natural History? WS: i fdon't knowsasl Jennings the anthropology itwmiup; became the but first eProfessor director of UMNH. So at this geology WS: of couldiwleoeks They persons me on was very Don Hague an my books. So part Museum and the happy of It longer became a attached consulting board or that the and had dinosaur Natural museum other helped me collection History, 164 too, director, on to the separate-- and cooperated the no Bailey become artist of was Professor with has already quite it department. put had point and other concerned whatever. But especially since because things, he went some and and illustrate to I I he's some of the Utah of this WILLIAM LEE STOKES eventually which WS: Yes, #6 was transferred eventually well, are there who has the as and was it around even more that there exhibit the of a but I now. be interest that the Utah largest Should in collection we end at know for We dinosaurs this dinosaur while it in good on looks 1like Carbon exhibit hoped ever County with eventually a become will associated on he species that thought, may Madson would other down that actually whether Museum Is Jim And this two dinosaurs today? of believe. that this Utah of Grande greatest least Prehistoric Eastern Rio dinosaurs work exhibit. complete the the do thought don't To of I dinosaur with College the would are world's mounter, was the Cleveland-Lloyd centerpiece Dbecome to up--. three a preparator happen ended down have in the the Utah. time? Yes. This the is the end of this session. tape. [END OF TAPE] 165 It's also the end of THIS IS THE SIXTH SESSION [SEVENTH TAPE] WITH WILLIAM LEE STOKES. THE DATE IS SEPTEMBER 20, 1985. THE INTERVIEW IS BEING CONDUCTED AT HIS HOME BY ROBERT MILLER. THE SUBJECT FOR TODAY'S INTERVIEW WILL BE SCIENCE AND RELIGION.[THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT] Perhaps have we we can gathered have and some religion, with and the year University time the time BYU years. the Church's general, and in Well, think I particular we still been influential a very big the Pack. We popular way in his So time feel any not influence and the off at at the that science geology, in earth these He of and included Fielding I we Up was out Smith scientific have head, He evolution came, had the to slides. Schneider, Church. nothing seemed Pack's When in department lot guess the mementos next antagonism--I Joseph of a few era. Hyrum I departed until on had of LDS. Talmage faculty towards a Talmage teaching. faithful department had teacher administration to start perception towards early evolution? from Frederick your science and can the attitude department quite joined was to childhood we we your--that pertaining your you interviews regarding Perhaps What of and of when Utah. history, previous information 1947 of off--in information gathered schooling WS: start it in was another no reason in the felt people the at that the Widtsoce and open. It was from the had this free that a very didn't--between until was we WILLIAM LEE STOKES feeling that science in geology. the any It published might #7 various book What works What the in came Way and just to say had my outright one This Perfection various you deaths of Joseph F. far as perception 1952 as General have--what the Authorities? scientists in the Was Quorum he emphasis Merrill of the his emphasized of of the to Your produced. would and the reading Answers that would you Signs and articles actually them includes out warfare, in of to singled Fielding attention every friendly they Joseph we that to wasn't won't until themes. The Questions I that was anti-science Times, form. wasn't his say. Church you John A. science 1loss those a on Widtsoe among of Twelve place the two significant loss? WS: Well I look into a really loss, these yes, operated. met my I Widtsoe papers. wasn't He aware matters, to the never and but it Merrill heard him was speak a to think must have in which atmosphere knew certainly enough at all, and bright, much been or quite this body although I've read many shining of his light in could be Richard R. eyes. Were there considered Lyman, for other General pro-science? example. 167 Authorities I'm thinking who of WILLIAM WS: I LEE STOKES just #7 couldn't Clark was he University, the me to his office, things. astronomical angles another time granite, I his interests have After in relied business unless I to talked he both I that than other Authorities letter introduced Joseph and here to Fielding cameweout in® all he to verify Tanner had made with he time about a on the it, and me Canyon, I don't knew the was a see over the McKay subject 168 he could should and '1954;¢ say in his well. in time. due any of the occasional an through his pretty know to I have been Kimball. published Aprilief of information get I there. very petroleum how Authorities didn't lot through geological Smith one Cottonwood was, except both and confer the Brother these Other occasions something me the probably conversed written to at I temple. Canada. the we wanted influence on two Rubin because and advice, and of J. specimens On my wanted the that pro-science. and he of feel money, and that specimens, He'd so-called, stone the subject. wanted these building the sure pro-geology with and lot the even up me then and quite geological in invited of feel worked courses called I pro-science understand took say. his Man, book, “His actually ‘Oorigin it and WILLIAM LEE STOKES Destiny. in WS: #7 What the was Church Well, there episode to that was a that I vertebrate students, to book--on have read of had a of because had it were all 1ot or fifteen Origin come out. And with easily use the whichiithey The book was idewn concerned. There was generally LDS scientists. What WS: He was never Henry among towards the thought, 169 to Joseph "If he exception thing, even through it, contains. te of and I'm weresngreatly a the feeling of book? animosity or Smith. He understand the Fielding could but subject Eyring, bitterness, any expressed unfriendliness expressed reaction Eyring's Destiny bigotry, a BYU: ‘atiisthe sfaculity s and couldntsfaid Henry and me suppose it term sarEefsther consternation that which I one see my high-level it. whole arguments afisthatl between the real specify His to teaching assigned didn't of one the Man, false mention. is chose whether conversation ten and was review <could the know Eheretsisita M: I thought--I hypercritical They especially and when and just very sarcastic. don't these scientists consternation, book--I anti-evolution, two-thirds see lot evolutionary must the book? experienced of I students, I among paleontology--which centerpiece they the-reaction WILLIAM LEE STOKES situation, he was had. he the wouldn't most There "getting #7 was as was quite that who turned out the loving never even" be by Brother weren't as I kind or it what came he'd that Eyring true, ad Smith I to been Mel against Brother Cook misused saidAthings hominem he Cook, terribly had call think champion 1least think you'd and Smith's At that or I Brother tell, when so-called. Eyring, that could Brother maintained attitude." animosity charitable to this opponent any far scientists frequently take that arguments, I suppose. Were WS: you--up Was he his endorsement Yes. a through We figure were department, came and there he that of in I made President same yes, in a gave some critical unfriendly But on it squeeze that wrong. he became everything geologists, And from antagonized six including on in everybody in but way. on the which they that he thousand small the he to I same to When I my first deposits, didn't meant was years simply increments geology the came uranium just Cook? prior not of me, Mel book? sort what of campus me evident 170 on to remarks or into then knew seemed lecture as aware Smith's gradual a you college, it recognize later were people the and consciousness 1954 even at all. trying to had I to prove to be guess department. WILLIAM RM: LEE I STOKES think what preface to surprise I down as or at Smith's that time think a it was faculty or and any other faculty members that has no formal paper Mel religion called answering a copy so. I don't not not far as as Mel had we never a it that of this know whether it published in the alumni the editorship of Paul Cracroft. paper. of the made even I secretly a know by most one Mormon and he Fools of and wrote Rush 1In, paper? was this but was sat Cook. wrote was H. Shortly this D. needs Goode, thereafter magazine, to be on G-o-o-d-e, an exchange it was under out the clear for me Cracroft. engineered It's winner. have one 1like who he or was record And a as was either But Cook something have Paul come or but this the Yes, may known, way. our think wrote that Utah, he discussed to I that Cook Did at already reélies you book. members devastating Do is--Mel disposition? specifically WS: asking faculty known openly a WS: was President theological Well I to already WS: #7 it so something that Mel came pretty that's hard to overlook. Now, you paleontology, this taught and I suspect aly/at course the on majority vertebrate of students WILLIAM LEE who WS: STOKES #7 are from I judged [it] a non-Mormons Well quite an few consequence LDS of background this. I who have took the course-- read all the these was There fifty-fifty. about be to who book as papers, by a the way. you still in the years WS: learned in but I No WS: Smith's book Church? Do would] [It just have I selectivity--that believing it. thing. deleterious it was It wasn't in It created more your But {18 effect viewpoint problems 172 it for on was-It's a full some that fliltiwas college so really anybody college helpful of bias--the such our the in students were iEhinlsei Fielding Joseph imagine there a motien ‘havesa guess. a students saying. and can't Undoubtedly iERasEangreats a be I college mistakes obvious many to course think impression the get you Of was I you the with had it «But! have must for, years. what do impact of kind What Life, thirty like less-specialized popular, scomplain. didn't them of they what by upset were Prehistoric or paleontology class. more a denfta'specificalily lot vertebrate students taught twenty-five been, taught geology this called course you these of many that that perceive don't You great. Oh those. have Oh viewed anythingy, students. kind students. of book. WILLIAM WS: It RM: How LEE STOKES #7 certainly would with the did. you account Smith's book? for theology How does Mel and a Cook's his man of preoccupation public that endorsement kind of of scientific genius?-WS: Well we'd don't have know cross too field effects life even. liar or him, got shape And I his dedicate it was the But inétead a mission, and I don't and father fame had and later it moment the and Mel so far I this--why on probably promised, 1%7:3 as so he felt on of head back into me promised if he his that God would become an in the went I be he'd a lived. Mel never should weighed hope over advanced after to run that know and had eventually that, the call Church hope all a or who the by across happen, his to good over was molded to know--later run this of on, was I want real beyond family's Church on it verify of Mel the saw father, stress world, his but to the scientific wealth have it me crushed in in told which wouldn't he He literally apostle. this? that and think advance man was I have occasion would childhood, and I down would his one head whatever, he about, happened. Mel's Mel and that the this to Mel. on Now when back with that tractor. go much swords authority all to on saying achieved mind he had what to WILLIAM LEE STOKES make a big this was contribution. going discredit Now, I #7 to the not in his the his own arguments that were books just full all wrong many because times do, I'd practically about Mel doesn't agree meErthim,! Fielding and itoo reports about So of a Smith. story The of of and down to that somebody went building. I'm Who Brother in he'd and 1is This is willing to Smith. be explained see was, 174 talk of to these how up this you go Joseph and his the or he's you." And problems his mind, church know, person in I asthat with on He since only--that of office still vou don't hand don't his me, in I I And "Well science somebody Jjust scientist? weighing secretary some met between was Why here. not he his it's welliwstellss second the or there he's "Well and scripture told--this attendant badgered conflict understanding he he's he lotisof and say, great how and wat and this Iramightisas firmly geology. students people right. days basically from would he beat, understood that he forth to But never you." those hard it. that that JuHe | puti mighty felt everybody in he with set philosophies How ande scuttlebutt contribution, universally Cook? really doubt of get he slightest had“fa'flotiloEMNsuccess), are think paleosciences have believed be I and but the said, see right here so he went to Brother WILLIAM LEE STOKES Smith, and that friendship. and #7 he Cook fair-haired won't say it was he and never greatest the He Church. I England and so I to ought gave stake by it?" So I do well. put out, mention it at in me to but his my the to maybe I of have Models was. 175 a how the his and gave and in the fellow." to I might History, I And gained be stuff printed "Now this." able was Earth in said, to the People ignorant books. his over rattled what's he his introduction them rebuttal "Well, greatest occasion. president give the throughout one I Smith, Smith and gave poor that explains or never on "You that's don't book, stake says, most have was a had. the that speeches stake allowed or reign, and think Brother he and Brother preface fact like, president my a of believe free from it went be a Cook, over-confident lived, the everywhere, looking And I needed always was call ever to it 1long I Cook backing anti-geology know He but a fellow Smith. to Church. Smith that the that had anti-science, were had contribution Man. least. he of right-hand tone hesitated in and Brother scientist (Cook's) a arrogance, felt scientist ofy of to beginning Smith, confident because he sort boy the the needed became explains was do to that as I so Mel well think WILLIAM LEE STOKES #7 RM: Prehistory WS: Prehistory and about It I and that. won't find say a I why, not I think in one was London. And then another creationists here in or three here frankly better in I'm glad than theories. Did he All I find say is that has, because must have Now Where Well, would in I many at say cases what's the all a find wish I it, must I he 176 of one in of the find of it with this fact-- he and reveals all of country? because was he get, could pains the publishers and places, wrong have, it, You'll because in reviews couldn't matter publicity lot either, that he but he knew. devising his by other publisher he can't adept you a through tried. was Mel have to lived I've and else to anxious and a was 1library States. as wrote a was United for about in did it who things and He and search found copies he attempt can I 1library that why. Britisher review the anything his very which our a something country, know a cynical this this Britain, made by know all Great scathing, book--two do in we really review I published and in--I more Models, have over WS: was twice said his WS: Earth comments--and have Models. publisher reviewed or Earth quantitative weaknesses had a arguments. lied? choice between which WILLIAM LEE STOKES data to take, favored his believe that sea, that in, would it very up adept, yes, became of some selection of data, stretch evidence it that years old. What is But the kind. and the plate I the it's is background accepted continental shift. How was department and with geology You mean the idea of 177 the and would wave came was as far And he was scientists out a of i place, deadly final it was the extremes, you in the might thirteen if find thogsand acceptance of that in apparently nineteen idea the drift continental oAl model own his down he the something is developed the carbon-14. or the early the in of theological. idea the a reach. take ten than that guess to This tectonics? and extreme, heavily of if into you rather waves seemed up when earth community geology that that be problems magnified to and could data cycle, instance, something argument you ever for then a again, finding troubling, found Cook and in cycles in like there'd on no at instance, then so come the oscillate and and never took For were geologists and up reached that always might an there ever find WS: be an assume he things be it and arguments. there'd there'd as #7 sixties Mel and S cata'stEophite accepted in the yourself? continental drift? Well, I WILLIAM LEE STOKES #7 remember when feelings of I deift, fifty-fifty. forty years would be maybe two That ago. If the splitting of the Well, that scriptural idea 1in that chronology. And and being driven prior to the quote quote of land context you then section back state days such as of division. yourself for deal Brother of the Smith the Mormons But in the which does he Peleg problem about with an but scripture How be There's splitting. in and would predispose a it become days have thirty-third the percent mass there's to today continents, might one poll has the in thirty, even "in an maybe, against the in split everywhere. Well with the thing evidence. divided." accept ninety-eight acceptable taken the about same it up that of the 1lands they a of were Mormon kind of in the explains the interpretation? remember verse the mean were next took ago, it it can't years mainly. lands I forty of believed was two in scriptural it those believed geologist and they was who and much hundred to against, too course as conscious poll like overwhelming to a something Russians, WS: was very that meeting continental backed became geologists, international just first after the this exact Peleg 178 verse, but statement I it think WILLIAM LEE STOKES #7 wheleSithing. among the "I people literally or Covenants, the for the pronounce you on division as that. it the land Anyhow, there the driven Maybe of that for being future. like idea and 1land the a something division, that's ‘it's discredits physical So ‘think it was Doctrine back could a and together, be. So I won't with that it. basically don't see any problem scripture. WS: No, I with don't. anything think as In many far together is mapping breaking Ocean believe and just in there with would have the He in ice that is rushed in the ice one compress 457:9 a left over all back The split the ice cap Scandinavian compared one ice here. here into And geological mass The in his it to over Atlantic geologists Where over I caps. huge the permanently it coming to always between. caps, ocean he mass Covenants. 1literally have it problems ice conflict And other the would two: and this to 1ice direct Canada. two to due few misinterpreted. thinks Europe, cookie much he in no--very Doctrine pretty studies. the the of is and a have phenomenon between countries, in Cook, weight and shared there a which I been Mel tremendous earth, that's have as fact one over between, Mel short time and WILLIAM WS: LEE STOKES #7 period. So At what point of continental Strange it I have a have been time who good it state. back days my did in you accept up with then of few in it. believed starting it. We the idea the But answer to about in But my I then. geologists your we didn't and who I right question, must at that it into really out here it I felt held about in must a became wrote So or us I colleagues always time of drift. days, and '38 one although those among about each there, present believer, Princeton right had a continental and the been assigned mechanism one this have been a very 1940. about influential catastrophe. always professor until in What to right about a career I've proper up your came textbooks be seems, the and to drift? back believer my got in it where topic a as went '39, it's Armand text. Eardley? Was he an He wrote opponent of continental driftior—WS: Well, he didn't become a text. In other words, he notes his North America, He tome tremendous a explained it's it had pre-drift along wrote believer all very time it and 1lines, weak without 180 taught the on in geological on to and on his written although history continental calling save he of drift. continental WILLIAM LEE STOKES drift. #7 Certainly he was never a great proponent of it Going back to 1954, the session in November, invited to specifically merits tell of me the the how only Olson discuss Smith's that session, was Jennings President about "swearing heard swearing and the Mel merits book. session, you elders" had Cook or you what you remember about it; I elder were lack Perhaps of can about believe meeting a that you ever attended. WS: Well, to I I never know about remember it Kingsbury there. had been this one was held Hall. didn't# McConkie, by the way much you that I come to he was and he was me say. the to wandering said--I do tell. let I His into off have some me-- 181 was But rooms I As itiiup’ don't quite that know how distinctly didn't Destiny, I to age philosophical notes I my really and of people about Jennings more tell. there. i iHe @ left Origin came fifty was remember I upper been history. because way. Here, have how can't the McConkie this Man, with of much: way, provoked grips one must and simply Peterson through want before, just in Mark remember;ushe all I There Brother and invited took, and things, by the WILLIAM LEE STOKES #7 [END WS: And he (Jennings) Smith has alive. said They in of sense that say it alive internal a Brother and great uniform Well, same Brother this it was sEEailght) a sense No, ancient earth?" feeling about disappointed and the that they or in I would and shows Mercury the sense think it that so, because fallen, expressed the to thing. grips the set to the that that and scientists the S Sthats I guess was really even don' t S for evidence the thing the mEreputedStohave i forth. on point scientist, didn't debate, directly made all whole gentlemanly would 182 Moon don't come whole alive that came so isn't He great about earth resurrected. andiseforth N andS "What Jennings has askedithellcquestioniandt remember, I about that book that. moving was it he a earth that did was Smith over the think actually think Brother the is pretty Cook that that it's to but be a thing Parenthetically, that to to was I the the planet; never and that philosophy ground. point, forth Compared due one alive. seemed is on and believed? Smith they are in live died, but we Smith ONE] writings, back actions. very Brother his course, the is SIDE centered argued maintained, is OF an final my I was discuss the that a WILLIAM LEE STOKES subject a of the certain got more Now, this stop with a was Did you November, then? in I I up to guess wish I I'd December received of a book, 1954. from and also but Adam he not critique a the was What Smith. P. Richard of request the critique, own his quite always I heart. have my did wrote I this. on I What the was say Elder for letter this wanted Henry know me errors. of full just ask naturally my to remember. I as would correspondence other page, he next was it some to and Eyring, Henry close think I knew and book notes that? to he single take debate. critique geologist a the Eyring and was I because a I for you letter did in submitted being Why Henry Bennion Well did was background WS: I notes. Evidently from But enthused taken only book. point. too S. #7 Bennion? Yes. Elder WS: I to Bennion can't remember use for Henry's any constraints was all say ever Henry Did right President I but as he McKay fit, saw about writing with me. 183 I it. from go or-that this; know would material this that and I What didn't I it knew suffered never happened care was if to it Joseph WILLIAM LEE STOKES Fielding saw complained and it, that to people do that. point to tell read my my wife accuse me of don't know what on record. Do you know these Oh, yes. At the Sunday other stabbing got time School anecdote. Smith to do and I would made person in a that it. the with Smith without I typed him back So he back. I it, but I'll ever met and issues? this it to had the things decided she he in I only when Eyring as I General conversations think so that him doing wrote the that's 1if discussed face I was never it when hear stabbing And that could put it. him letter did Eyring about And I were Henry him never I because specifically talking WS: #7 as was Should I Board, well Henry remember, as that repeat and written told Eyring they had was on face to communications. me an interesting it? Sure. WS: That is they meetings. much as fellow, I he went guess could and he of some point know this?" it." And down And Henry Henry be, and to said dispute, Brother Eyring 184 the hall was he a was a Smith, "Well, I these pretty as mild regarding Fielding, says, of incensed, usually "Brother says, one little Joseph Smith after how do "Well, I feel that you feel it WILLIAM LEE STOKES isntt.NeAndi with in E each my was younger He reason get less out of this which of the was as a was only scientists to sort of kind of since he School the I had Board Kimballs be to guess can: stand me said I've never unwritten oppose and I 185 me, all the exchanged the a book but clearly for Mormon Henry? the the to had Was scientists General the much he Sunday Bennions and circulate to maybe and for myself the BYU. It thing that Henry Eyring with enough at the Brother their be I you'd publish for been speak people And to you around related only and it to tendency on Romneys? went he spokesman was champion our credibility I an and Twelve a the other of sort he fearless, mine. here the membership can for slightly people and I anywhere. would and know. don't been a of consequence rally the got anybody, anti-evolution, there ever Smith. of Was as hero going anti-science. viewed they to caused Brother Quorum not down you That as absolutely great think turmoil President was fearless, and with cross back a it." determined, When was don'ts correspondence WS: he as Henry didn't and s fuspour better that's But opinion. that more gfiess other. for SWelly #7 own man only Smith. way too, have must a But and 1lot of thought WILLIAM LEE STOKES their own dare you feel, an adequate Well, he could do. of which I can be replies as just that didn't = deo® the be replies wrote And I'm and feet so to by jump down. And thing about my specifically, Henry human being one so that 1like, you did 186 he so and knew that he were much to me, and "Well, do you in to best mode issue any friends him; the and clever Eyring Henry said always I've told our if scripture you Wseripture’ pleased to been "And that Henry's around could he I've ask, forth, I'm was never and which Or way wrote believe told and one specifically. done any to Smith was and scriptures, it did science? the that yeouliexpliaiin S this " them have because that LDS, Smith?" scripture?" Henry of with best Smith an How'® that cause might specific to Joseph feel the the profess and people he did operandi his they problem? modus Now, BYU satisfaction Smith's answer the promoting there this same these at other probably the the do things Was with that or job there dealt Down up. Do didn't? WS: thoughts. speak were #7 him never do, land' did not say that of then my *Sthat answer I did ability. things to answer was very quick on personable that he never you'd would could actually say pin believe pin him the same him down in the WILLIAM LEE STOKES gold #7 plates or personality whether was such there according to was own Church. But in more. Who do Was there can might attitude NellliasT this effect, things him?" And social he Kimball never I of scientific is President famous a might good swing "Do and said would think and are things for done of when the a his Church more have does that he ever able to they that positive him to me or influence talk to explain frequently had the and together, ask any wives questions or told specific Henry was about me about a but not on fundamental background to the which resulted things, his? 187 lot of things to parties or forth, but there was problem. Kimball's educational 1letter in, about things, this President of to with you so that on of So have that information letter not. Heney,, = Tnsaidiisomething you that McKay said question. towards you admitted the he or marvelous president progressive do source What That's his what it he and science? occasions anything But he did anticipation a Kimball, these behind opinion actualillyagaskedi President and my became towards he that, believed facts more? be 1like you way, any brother-in-law there that any his the WS: something and topics. you course, wrote the WILLIAM WS: I LEE STOKES won't #7 deny considered thing to be that reactions really of people not wasn't Department from the authority, this letter. head and the thank I was and must it, the God because and public my taken I I was taught that in or 1light and a get it him spirit myself writing the wrote the in as the behalf we and is those of to I more it in head in identified in but reason I I know I the was servant it the as I rights the that it guess being within from taken doctrine, and have took was I I environment, nowadays that's students he and and department and insthat Did He wrote of myself figured my wasn't. sure, Geology I I it and and it positive too of ward days, be teacher, which my what ill-conceived did, whether those could I in by audacious, Smith whether in devastated very tell or wishy-washy days was President truth and I the couldn't gospel not that of taught, answered ¥lhightss you--when you received was a his letter, what was your reaction? WS: here Well, disappointed detail. But you every ask short brief very- answer and about my first I'm somewhat questions my statement,” it, 188 was I lines. of word me five didn't he that 'It*was''a‘' appreciate it. it but ‘now reconciled reaction. Well in I to I WILLIAM LEE was #7 disappointed more But STOKES specific, he What knew is because because what the publishing he he hadn't I'd was come written him out a and page been or so. doing. background to the 1letter it, rightly obtaining which permission for published in was Dialogue? WS: Well T took answered that the copies it, my answer to but about letter or whether I the Cook's attitude letter because and And people thing, even baloney. But now President him for publish this publish to didn't the the was very, I but and actually whole so a had ask for I a was asked this against the is a whole lot of because by When I didn't wrote really approval little for Mel troublemaker. fate, him know write which I him it faked ill. over really to public I was given written prophet very it or think but asked 1letter. 189 it one I had distressed tempting make to letter, that was I business signature, I McKay no I he'd official, didn't and nothing said knew reply, a I even and I setting was permission expect and I had was hence down that. since public published like I a really authority, I another, some really that that too, seemed anything had from public that never wrongly, being was anybody I'd it, as or reluctant, permission him to only to for WILLIAM LEE STOKES permission not of quote an him health. to I'm him Joseph Anderson? I it want any in An Official it Brother WS: Did you ever Morris And "I capable pleased use that to have get the were issue. I statement. so ‘you' except wrote an publish titled my article it's should And to a right really I to happy contains +Eell directed it, they it he been about have that have or say other personal such discussed you was poor a facsimile snowj i minor felt of don't miracle. that it answer--he was did want published. Authorities have had didn't very still had to which about, enough be in mind vastly he question must correspondence, Q. okay vAnd came McKay important Did was Position. letter v how to said science/religion MeKay'sh his was really was secretary--I it Dialogue, their it that I his that in know So he I Church (Anderson?). me article sure the And because it. Anderson; didn't that position. even from letter inform statement answer, not answer Joseph the official understanding this WS: to taken expect #7 as Bruce earth other than communications Joseph history with Smith or in which you and related correspondence? 190 through Fielding McConkie R. than communications General George might subjects? WILLIAM LEE STOKES #7 RM: Other than correspondence. WS: Well, the only already mentioned, he gave a guess I more or the come, me and give was if was there my correspondence maybe later on, creation mentioned which was It haven't influence of goes back that was the he did discuss it, totality of subject. I this on in this back in 1965, but on the What was involved? Was 1Lk Man, this already You've manuscripts other of number disposition to code. Genesis the book your getting a area publication published literature in proof that published. been anti-science really had answer and on for you've His to you and scriptures proof. happy Instructor the course, motivation your the of did he be earliest for article the was came man how us he'd writing in your point, him. with involved got suspect WS: impasse, an so You then I and beaten the how tell some him give could I to denied scriptural some he'd come could Morris man, that he if Q. of origin really he maybe us George indicated that him, to the on hadn't evolution, by come and that evolution, by to bush wrote less challenged I and I speech after around but I've which cClark, Brother and Tanner Brother were length any at to talked I that two to counteract published which or-- His Origin and Destiny WILLIAM LEE and STOKES my I've experiences mentioned about of the horse, line, with would that I us was out But I one by scriptures. How mine?" he my Well was, studying "Do nature, creation or the religion?" questions it appeared to would not least. He answered any they he sent I was were i1L92 not ever, the value them, experience to that It said. prove your of to by the of fundamental answered 1like the I ‘'asked into very mind determined could or scientist a couple insights this a a of question God I scriptural all his in him and it simply in told criticize when finishing we never from what so of and anything, one gain influence was two inaccuracy never his answering that me matter wouldn't I course answered think but of remember I've nature me, should of evolution or of letters remember Well, to kind I all I never you the which Of think criticism error end. civil about I don't did. "Now satisfaction. him the one, saying, an this answered by I on critique, That exchanged that quotations in I wrote out that line. like we mentioned of he pointed line-by-line Smith. a multi-page that I nowhere Authority letter lines implication get Brother I wrote and a the with that thirty-six every an #7 the everything WILLIAM LEE STOKES #7 scripturally, said, or what statistics were that kind or told it wouldn't of data experiments to or or him, it would I figured if we kind of matter what what kind observations literally be T of that without effect. So that analysis scriptural opinion, my after turned that all of totally This the in Henry they at hand. page and book that in are, analyses I all put scripture been has the finished I seventies. early the book the because quotations substance. after is science. problem the to everybody. by out his without scripture. Saints life, my of scriptural page a manuscript Is news book, in this best very his best meaningless be to proved Even down ran I when the got I here And I reason rest the maybe and base eighty-percent is which Evolution? Accept to Latter-Day Can book, first my wrote with the That's scripture. on everything deal have we'd mindset to going were had recommendation the written for? WS: Nobody whether get has Henry written even Mtolgfiirsthibase! an knew with 1593 I endorsement. about that, it. then But and don't of I course recall couldn't 4if it WILLIAM LEE STOKES couldn't be #7 published Mormon-oriented the outside less Church outlets. world, about by There because Mormon publishers was people disputes. Who's Afraid of took just the opposite tack that interpretations In it I hairy mammoths was side of many a give Not book, might evolutionist So very the thing is my and tolueenesiis# Code Scriptures and which ' I I in now book. My as it the title ever book Footnotes to The The Creation myself with my how fact it's third it published a because called to for on opinion, day hot finally My plaster But my as I on. brag know of s.changed 194 I book second then people turndowns. just so and scientific could 1light First Genesis. I Well good see was that about Genesis a evidence. Well, heard sixty literalist Mormon-oriented. which and to there about fifty that 'cause one had. book, foolish the Mormons, is I've care and and citizen the in footprints facts which they've were fossil there rejections good just try to scientific like average rejects. between the cold-blooded the another with still was and in of by second fundamentalist, things things. is house had to nothing this view discussed idea was in my you sold couldn't Dinosaurs? called evangelical, there on I these sense So which believe no or the I still and this was. WILLIAM LEE STOKES help of #7 Duane Publishers. said I no, that Everybody they detect an the brave than touch enormous fear of the want to would not to publish But be thousand I the copies steadily, and every make it known in somewhat left. so that I often they've underhanded along and them Crowther, was It it's been it all. cost still He about have been people way and antagonige it. But it All that's published and at Authorities printer, dollars, Horizon it. Brother my it, of looked to half a had want enough eight else slightest. didn't owner didn't anybody in Crowther, more selling write me or reading it. is moving still So forward. This book is a whole creation point reconciliation Well, I of on ever nobody Brother Sunstone. "Well, I with would of a point of hailed as the by science. something Instead And letters, from of then including Complete and so on. reviews in Dialogue and to me, but you did get good some of my is a 1895 facts my answered this the ignored. completely McConkie yeah, almost contributor. valuable and But analysis and be Benson I silence. a been I've that scriptures thought [laughter] complete friends great said book, WILLIAM LEE STOKES #7 don't come really are you But I my going got to the and did book do about verify the believes in obvious it. Genesis Answer. sales, in my but mind, had have and did Galileo. idit's from coast to coast, and and next biggest week I has market expect 196 to been really in know out of was, Here ones. to The to millions on least my decide title At not, to " lo off. or with for justhdidn!titdke circulating a am I do to since thing greatest the Scriptures that the small only just publisher they counting was I to who not texts——and changed they But publish gotten manuscript my but why, know don't I behold, was everyone hint the been wrote occurred anything had I this that's or allusion nscientific s my L Eor® yeaese all, Creation The Prentice-Hall--they'd after and to that submitted I Mormonism. over so truth me. going was--I've belong and this that or Mormon, The every expunged and and and I What scared that and rewrote I notes Scriptures, scriptures So Mormons. That see book, them, evolution. evolution, and myself. that me my could Evolution of with that?" at I nondenominational ahead grips looking thinking, scriptures a to to It there believe it Australia, how it's WILLIAM LEE been STOKES #7 selling. you've one got for But to I write got two Mormons, and Eden't “thaink Ged intended every truth confined to the this idea is enough an effect of be strictly be free be acceptable not and Moslems. They the key that I and Yes, absolfite was young in everything four and of subject old, a half then time, whether or six billion 8O said, of E£ifth Scriptures to have to get I And so a or that me earth is compress thousand, ten is and agent the years. that's again an Jews to or whether thousand, should world, But to to problem the the you That's have fourth occurred it Mormon but the £ind can't "L a Moses, in book. mention that people for is be interfaith, or my to decided I material in minute off. so Evolution, which and or attack did I tract And back, go to called yet, the or to mere believe all And the Christians to world. one people most the gospel Just that subjects: for for Mormon only siilllences publisher it a world-beating a really is the unbiased which evelution),™ Say of then these Almighty reputation. ought which on nondenominational you book idea other turn to our point. "Well the is present to books Mormons. that or the I or wrote WILLIAM LEE STOKES another book opinion this take the #7 called is out of got it made. the creationists conviction six and that effort. In can knock you my it I the idea, then you've This idea is what keeps fundamentalists must or compress so. ridiculous comes up. unpublished. Let this end In earth manuscript me if Time. young we more About best that years dayEhesun RM: very and thousand more my attitude props It's This But tape. [END OF 198 TAPE] everything belief and going--the is getting impossible T still into have every the THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF THE INTERVIEW STOKES. THE DATE IS SEPTEMBER 20, 1985. THE INTERVIEWER. INTERVIEW #8. [THIS EVERETT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT] RM: Perhaps I can move philosophical this you into and creationist, Mormons bailiwick for the other that We evolutionist the the area theological. think or an should Mormon? cause, or is are a in little the controversy. fit in? Should try WITH WILLIAM LEE ROBERT MILLER IS IS PART OF THE Is he to find it a more midst of Where do there another identify with one another direction minute's unbiased altogether? WS: Anybody that thought, either scriptures, either I Please. WS: A or pure In universe. 1line. Well, because we know Creator is Jesus careful about we I an are one who knows our cannot join see that we don't know whether or not there evolutionism can there is the of production influences a is Creator, no the and world no need, anywhere along with that, along go not the means evolution because we evolutionists as evolutionist supernatural of evidence though be natural undirected or why. themselves, define the Mormon other. not can give immediately the explain Mormon a would one should RM: would and that this Christ. So we had be very that we are evolutionists, even saying evolutionists in the better broadest sense of W. L. STOKES the #8 word. We are not evolutionists understands evolutionists creationists, on the earth and created the thousand years element, Eaught the but ‘that and great an and earth Well, around. the God took pre-existing the earth and the universe. as peacemakers is and and been first enough six may any is to was organized to fate it better. My now is plain tell us creation a run 200 on this space and make 3:24) get believe to serve matter. And is effort time to step scriptures The fact occupied the years. it or we own these and is joining greatest the that our not, our what all or is elements ignore of that God Recall whether accept that and (Abraham can't the and periods, you Smith is there possibility we it for dwell..." our it materials teachers leaders make down, time Joseph eternal, the it that these stuff It and there that of these whether trying go take of do we convince have will will creationists. forward the that or to about know eliminates sooner argue is it the six man kind not, nothing eternal, "We the of out followers, "held wherein It may And God his we that We world that on scripture: there, universe the believe anything are created hand, the there *teok We be. is elements eternal. other ago. if to as was that after that, it (or evolve) by itself. well So we W. L. STOKES #8 believe in creation, both, and eyes. Accepting problem. so should To this accept it lot. And as have to give up their evolution retain a creative powers But will they no evolution oppose news up a is opposition to there creation, it creation of The which was the beginning of nothing maybe to the six seventh key four God, why a little they in if How in can in his and the they Being and of and who The bad to give creation, there creat;on on those have divine Being Bible. insist about to will they evolution? going to creation return account, this the is was and not which million restrict a the ago. I the earth, the of and as event have a over of time And the first the and an was him? that specifically record years fact scripture in geology and the watering described 201 whole day. with forth, the six-day are sedimentary a settle lose face days to science so and his Supreme plainly is in three, a their Being earth. Supreme began day identified fossils a But lose they open about believe that was whole seventh in young evolution will must Supreme also and them because a in creationists, forth. eventually creation for the so and that would nonsense in and else everybody for and belief believe duality a no we anybody gain and and being chapter in L. STOKES my #8 book, The Seventh readEERRNTENE that's we ever view these not the what accounts knowledge that that the Who will long), %and evolution other are inspired on some sense accounts that of the accounts earth those call, makes all Byearns) the reflections might Science. about. and mentality, we for think Genesis creation, primitive to to billiiensiiof long want of Jjust Belongs sidliongy, sufficiently would Your Day history and by a records contain rather sophisticated in the 1light of some, modern science. WS: Creation scriptures because they ancestors it, an for even sense though in stuff that scriptures ancient are says time. But phrases, science. In own They in alternative it fact, is even that 202 as flat men® same more is of nonsense. The contradict and they pre-scientific dependent words, agreeable it in conlidEislicze NN in scripture, what with all right in selection our and don't it's harmony believed earth utter say time; satisfied they and SO and the a with swrong, peace and don't were minds think agreeable hidden permissable now sophisticated, pre-scientific years universe dit's intellectual a of their we beliefs. den'tls extremely in thousands earth-centered this and made are was to on thoughts space-age written for, W. L. STOKES #8 today's space My they it age worst problem ought to consider because we have scientific Genesis as a study and that we couldn't from to me wants to even "This got we'll you with earth up of a to just gave reason we it right." We which we it up hopeless with a SSusit enough of now have in It's all so nobody else Eventually somebody will are Space in it the and will contentious why of verify LRER cosmology. dispensation, and years was know understand me. oppose scripture didn't and to science. science can't last They of to this Age and everything has together, and come nonsense. Is history? what the Adam Is does the faintest and Eve. that what dyed-in-the-wool 203 relationship an historical mean? fall doubt I view your in he in fall the and Adam view and haven't you're I together, you reality tried that me? personage I people justify because listen the give do How that come asked hundred it. to astronomy guy's in to three or the extraterrestrial are seems do And anybody Everyone which trying done, clear we convince understanding abundance say, two couldn't were be cosmic, to this. had task. rudimentary is during they hopeless was WS: science. in don't student mind my care of about whether or genetics, the not all W. L. STOKES #8 species had that there and Eve to have was a are a first as Now IEhEN FERSEhu forward did on the exist and innuendos, if our heads, to all I at is we an precise, it's man's soul. That there are until they have a God W'put because ought two were as it. to it This be at to and a It religious a soul was TEls said became for a that 1living anybody, that an Adam not united. to I the can it's hard for understand that Adam Fall, 204 and specifically hils ¥ spiriits he is situation, have scripture there we that time. as you enough that counterpart unprovable how less. through beings, parenthetically is that no get some Adam' g e beings more, speaking clear entities, two spiritual dinto' R Eo the dual and think and got and would allegories we've soul souls, historical Eve no am Adam and stage, intangible, spirit. now I And exist are are a did the doubt ISRyel ot Adam together but I Ehatt and come have very understand body about telllsWust And that any And Here that realize, humans that certain don't woman. as onitE L right. I colleagues understood a to believe me anything it had individual but we physical certainly EINENd and first scientific all there's a hard if and to assumption souls And have my it's received man real characters. G EelNaien beginning, me to was W. L. STOKES #8 immortal and subject Garden of Eden. series of chemical depends on genes, to universe be just best Adam became tandmtadon't say I less. the fall was of the body. being removed from something that with talk Adam hHim Teave This tob. might give a good defense you do the ultimate am people, other bringing see the death up is of my but all what was 205 the death was And knows and walk and then of the fall It 1least. the I that think I could belief. relationship of fall. time part in know to will "I And ‘could his God. certain me I scientist that's worry doesn't worry How a thimself," to of the It's don't spiritual says, until up I subject presence God in die. was science--no If about. anything the being guess that the produce do I became And that beings. and and And he possible things how),; care dies without such a he somewhere death, don't of many that to why 1live the simply could fact, be knowt death is in survival why Part And subject and are, and before is it's they might for man And born death. there death reactions what to to all, genes. being subject After his creatures RM: not other very between forms of fall the life? fundamental to and What Joseph I W. L. STOKES #8 Fielding Smith; that the efEfecEsiofithe ™ fall (& argument and, is that therefore, the which there world including through was the connecting then up death encompassing It's would the ingemy up the find it find it the: he In anywhere Adam fell to die, came to plants and at in the animals he's thousand death prior to B.C. to this posterity in the where four yourself only things that's any relate ‘his death And wasn't not most ridiculous &t No was and one ever that issue of days. Because "no rings, the fact with he--or this, I Adam death" the his they 206 I of but ever of brought once the to can't against the against varves, the the cave mammoths, going I'll but flies It for and successors--expects are heard searching flies ‘caps, was this, it to wilth | Joseph been life. hairy afraid Fall read ice the dinosaurs, if I've of history | the documentation these not original before born. I'm teaching iswnoti death the of now. tree fossils, man. if geological total Adam. of state and and part' a presumptuous--and Smith. quotes created earth Liferisand before was the 1life? the Fielding world the you most say--it's create there How of not death, that time. forms does of reverses But | the ' other: not fall obviously all WS: God Atonement have to to get get W. L. STOKES into #8 the school dinosaur projects and and and ten thousand And all so pointless. it's you can thousand, knock ten relate to it, scriptural gone I every on up with some big an of my the human mind will creator. Then you the Yes. would be is an has in say been the you have me how with that I spite all you with that that he come it. in The "no-death invention accepting by his demonstrated people no published of I have that trouble position six reference have no think the authority, I to I fallacy unnecessary obstacle take under will convince an from every have to reason asked that which I the God death of the as the was part creation? and for pools necessities of on going been It's preparation beds So papers. You higher zero research that I the museum total And quoting fall" true of of books. and a and subject. absolute trouble before writing Smith the protestations, it's all the thing to. whatsoever. Fielding offered year want say and out with all That's props you basis through Joseph the what away books thousand accomplished do eliminate exhibits if WS: system I man. of life gas would and if for we 207 oil of millions ask, and hadn't we years get how do ten thousand had death in coal other operating W. WS: L. STOKES in the As a #8 world Mormon, all forms and woman? I don't so long would of them setting the reoccur What of probability know. That's a is be your and that cleansed of flood a as Joseph do. Goes the its threat it's earth sins. to be room for idea, as a could anyplace. I Now, goes again, Smith through a the because analogous it's birth, with fire and then is that scenario, and is And that 208 to baptized immersed he saw whole theological of kind a had flood flood? through there And Kknow actuality Fielding we the therefore, the earth resurrected. an someplace, the then truly of one. in to an the events be as is 1is going wouldn't or that as life of meaning view important scenario hard the 1is man really It don't grass with you events. I that Genesis when whereby But somewhere, baptized, it's a But days there reform his kind all, tenet that. grass or would flood of the company actual earth. as to in happen. blade this possibility, the six conditions After on with first could every Not don't the adhere wrong the day resurrected. also resurrected not of seventh it. and are up whether are anything allegorical man? you life see study before in the and water denial geologic of it's the structure. W. L. STOKES How #8 d§ you Testament WS: Well, I that view Pearl of guess I would have for and geological the to prove geological that now I don't actually highest of really oftit. I by get #T'11 don't saying believe I do in believe in 209 best by to that it world above the on believe this, miss the to I'll very T And we they hear implications trouble something the entire when don't it on flood:i® the flood. that sense; parable-like universal a of Why of the went theologians kinds all dinto they geologist to point. the reasons, was can't dwell on early Right “Noah':and this the you impossibility. believe, 'of bedevil the about I firm Flood. personally blame the to continue more is, no the physical continually or believe in because classical I Ganges that solitary it, put fact, single And the predecessors entire 01d saying everything a cthervstory of points did an the by had become covered mechanics have exist the out And has 1in to flood. In the absolutely all it And is a our in They mountain. all. Flood. know in start biology that belief believes at theory to we and the fossils. But such of Price? there scientists geology writings evidence area, of the Great little that best explain a evidence of could in the Euphrates stages flood and except me, the say soften unusual that it but W. L. STOKES still it #8 local. and There not being a enough baptism, place almost when water came That than for it. too As think the of which Noah's things as it billions earth a Flood) of the of years ago covered the and much against (the baptism the is many far 1literally out surface, baptism just I took whole are more earth satisfactory flood. would be yes. The earth appear and for the beginning of the seventh day when the-—WS: Well, did sheet an throughout entire the but scriptures in overwhelmed Noah's one New a flood. I my the it Now it the was And thereafter created continents and so did generate and I'll but after get I'm miracle. What do producing all you it see it's the by water uniform this in discuss some of world the being overwhelmed a previous it You flood develops as see, earth after taken by the it had place. Peterson cooled I the over says we know flood, it's a miracle. strengths 210 not trouble Apostle happened as until had of kinds that satisfied If forth. continents water into overwhelmed a don't about past. not I of the in in meaning It then discussed books. flood. long but was have Testament was dry, know of discuss the by we world. in I totally all the chapter Flood, was of Mormon theology? a W. L. STOKES #8 You've mentioned organized the world would see as you vis-a-vis WS: Joseph Well, up have evident important from God true we've deep-seated idea have and that the of myths generally. scriptures said to I are the of and God it, "Write the 21T has not words has. difficulty I see it of that around persuade leaders that seen even which the to it one in I of the God the and and of creation thing whole a people and scientists as nothing guesses and The from is made to attitude man-made. and else Genesis got thenm, various proof man the possibility world book the mistranslated Moses, the back in understanding also but not inspired, so theologians take must is We've to people undeniable turn thought, theological not theology analyze great And correct the only not have What nobody with alone. we to this hints truth approximations. divinely element. Moses carefully and and got collection inform God difference given Genesis scripture So has the what a creation lucky that Mormon and enough you clues of that possessing a of Abraham is when deduce book strength but that keys, the of there that might lives. pre-existing strengths books And accounts Anyone other the Genesis. it's from idea science? we three Smith's is that we word. He speak." Now, W. L. STOKES that in #8 means the that no more exact words there the message the last mind that perceive what somebody else your Well, was Adam, body Adam, the all the down and to And say that I that would the saying don't what needs into the Plan laid out two corpses done. be to Salvation of fit world, this to our down officially it the to this be human not I'm give understand mean true so Mormons and have it. cram to the if must facts. the going is right in viewpoint? we say let's of scriptures and and spirit man a plainly breathed Adam was that's who and into it launched wvital, 212 or on and of of Adam. and tooth scientific the could tell them apart. God took Adam's that us tell bone one in indistinguishable tooth that for bone be could they father or is here over another and and here mother prehistoric non-human the definition The in anything know we will world with up they Superficially for the pre-Adamites do fact translation, wants Moses very English, God to the in way it And least think I But wants. difference Almighty God gave no in now he God been the come less, Smith's person throats. How WS: is could facts, that at Joseph no that has translations, including or gave a it mortal how can the spirit career. we tell of It's who W. L. STOKES #8 possesses divine is it from spirit, And in that put mind Jesus to and that's no a father and mother. to forced There was this method. through and these have the this no at sermons and the human where author of tells us those the corner is Evidently for human of had of to the haven't got his Man: His Origin You something. haven't had animal except I've lectures race. our All of presidents preexistence of even one that Not one, not even can't convince me sort some dared by gone I has not seems Destiny. where 213 an and minds nobody is found body. Adam it come of that elimination. human on Is essays, many the saying that hang-up. the is than conclusion big final ancestors. and he Adam includes their no, who The mother. treatises, I animal animal process the but an the being evolution say extensively writers of a origin list a the by of of human derogatory that way the had say twenty spirit, all from. on Eve to That's least on I us other discoursed explains the upon book had This a parentage. Christ? Adam Because of that more God, Jesus to be my Adam derogatory destiny divine Christ, derogatory or alone? from in that my fate such I intimation body different no bombshell dead the certainly possesses a Adam to say of that in hint really it. think came But I W. L. STOKES must #8 say lose, and Are and the you Adam's WS: it see risk did not of it says life. the One book into reader (that the it the man's formed his spirit into breath him; of it of is and it (that little to man is God's The the or---2 the breath "breath". But that put God parenthetically with dust the spirit exact the man's into became a "And ground, and and put nostrils living soul. no said, is: spirit) his so he quote of to scripture Adam specific then is, kind from into "spirit" breathed and his plain’ very from and life ‘se’ spirit). man have antecedents of breathed confuse Gods took God spirit, would I physical spirits ils Abraham his is, have definition of Adam the ands that happens. well-taken. that ThattsWexactlyp® when is saying body what the (Abraham 57 )" Okay. WS: Smith's before word mean. have all mill because Adam. Well, first. Well, First down man first the earth, that say Scriptures All you it means line. also. That's maintains he that's a should do most Presidency, the was And none 214 there was ask what or Lady, first of these flesh no the of mistranslation is does first foremost. means on Brother for grist important First flesh first the Adam We lieutenant, the first W. L. STOKES in time. Adam I the be clear to Adam were That's Did WS: It's first my they Yes. on manlike have They this. and spirits? had are clue--our not are are How relate--let That is what is finite qualities. of eternity do those of God, in verse beginning glad Moses:; does think he the God you the He is Mormon in ideas I Well, and he that mother is of God, while but to not this animal 1literal Bang"? "Big the conception Mormon regress into theology and as heaven it. vision I'm God has Mormon The continuum. What who's being embodied an when, 215 his whole ONE] past. the at idea How conception the Bang"? "Big designated a the over. is about these comprehend. what the but That the is order? God, to created received by relate Bible asked different God. turn SIDE infinite and how me space/time of point some father beings. a God hard to in that asking of of so OF relate God does of children not [END How the created creations That's you Maybe offspring offspring. do So womanlike spirits spirits spirits I'm importance. conclusion. spirits WS: in was. want of WS: #8 by it says, and the the "In earth." back If you go of the universe and and first the But read was W. L. STOKES #8 dumfounded, did all ITESM this B that tell you the rest," worry too are various believe as I one we how can forget within fit understand an trying can edge to 216 to give the don't and to that to and to universe. it. the it does it. Now, which teaches suggests. understand rise minds, understand reveal You I and understand even it. understand of @ dts greatest theology to my about say him, organization nothing be the supposed mightily I cosmologists completely LDS other God. to to In revealed enough and not the to will As ‘the'“hilstery wisest sees he or never understand are trying are will the me." been bold remaineth church Scientists be I writings has #and secrets stand. in my but ' the "No, you only about the effect, known "How more all remaineth ever which thing in what will until him other there it know those; God, exactly, which mathematicians says that's "it even Perhaps in on will Einstein, God earth to servant to said said it asked ‘thisearth that greatest quote mainly stages. remain well your over Wof beginning. how Tell mysteries follow thetNerigin they words God said, much thinking no the God there it. And about words, such many Moses universe. don't so happen? is the the in wish'iI®¥could scenario of and Jjust it, but cannot something, or might as We There was a W. L. STOKES #8 béginning, the possibly Big from Bang, an and but in an universe? Then in seen as the conceive can. the Well, We WS: he it. he But earth study, on not the perhaps, Bang would where God it. not be created because it almost saying by time on it. our with God remaineth did which he in faith me," Moses to reveal and we're and----. have we any mystery. a mystery, genuine a is anything only avoid habitually people of scripture known mystery a is in time our own our in it put wasting are we I infinity. be can can't I But conceive it think is "It says, get about matter. of can't warned lot a believe, we Well, worry or pinpoint except, Big are We it, start just we "beginning" wasting just can Maybe I symbols. thinking hard millisecond, I anybody Well, God. to a eternity the in pursue to not nothing than the accept nothing. speculating. in absolutely beginning and mathematical We smaller view eternity if Bang. inconceivable ultimate believe we from Big mathematicians Mormon of out the thing It's Let the things doubt how, infinitesimal mathematically. No, was infinitesimal entire WS: it 217, as many stood. (Moses) restricted I'll a did God that take This mystery. If word for about the his things it. is Let's open to really W. L. STOKES delve #8 into subjects a study they deal Sefwelsare WS: Well, not sad in the impenetrable is not so as expected to understand. God's he reveal earth. It Moses was can did on God two way natural the conditions That's something by the when cease said he to be I he Can the for think that if God. And Brigham God set didn't which was also and works, up laws? that whole earth. some those were or I and it hit a one in But laws, obey Which he--is Is of upon word the of that stood. devote he Young certainly 218 I are meaning sense. God, the by we is he philosophers. abides and laws laws. which the But law? with a should Moses sphere books natural through the we Moses about meaning co-existent law? natural to and things which another my on on in of concept law create the one what to time. That's on word the that point. is planet, at relate God does knows this In How it earth soil--earth the to the this possibilities mean mean? chapter about standing standing the either questions much understand are and ‘ask scriptures. at to there ‘to theologically emphasis would scriptures S posiition' try Note WS: creation beginning That's the in S or the mystery. the with. inot S scientifically antedate of on does he think he operates the head would the law he is the evidence W. L. STOKES #8 of rational or bypassing is, a thing to admit WS: to the So there us in don't you as a we'll boils "As may man has We're of surprises God's How long? and don't as much in store for understanding of statement long they Perhaps disclose of must forever, that certain thus or remain at least them. eternal progression mean to scientist? the into progress we'll do with this once God McConkie Brother yet and was, this there 219 1little you and can you say future and deny How evolution. of and what progressed, what which probably past. and got quasars that the become." progress, like in is, certainly perfectly progressed to probably operates. to him. miracle and We've comprehensive again to be, a been. lot concept now now have it element have down things a be discovered "laws". how fit Mormon start we that full How the the That's a in sees would be back know. he and ever and may to understand We've may of remain until WS: still refer things we law yet so-called as appear understand. are. universe What don't particles dark may natural don't terms I'11l I we fit in What a laws subatomic the of we natural seem thought. as says I little God that couplet are. think Which now God says one it all couplet: is, man cannot that are he you W. L. STOKES going #8 to believe? too. But One final are in I I think discuss Brother question. the that in one my books, McConkie is basically wrong. What church for do you more of think the enthusiastic prospects espousal of science? WS: I've got been pessimistic. to the point And he if be be nevertheless it longer. The is too making many questions. will be been asking. our rights, asking recipients The same the We'd better the get total Dispensation. 220 the Space and and on the ball Age. asking of too scientists and the has assume responsibilities truths any become theology that questions privileges of to know, we thing first have but going discoveries many Fall the dgnored 'be in are we about studiously We've suddenly is that is Judgment, just . cannot it reason and Atonement Creation. the will It endlessly talk the and it until important Science the about say to ignored very as Resurrection the little We such topics abstract known. perhaps way, source. unexpected some through even Creator, hard the at Creator. the the as have arrived has as known come to has conviction the experiences Almighty known be will and my be to wants he but God think I where should even and optimistic, as Last W. RM: I.." STORES So, #8 it is your belief Creator and creation scriptures be Joseph that the Smith as as inspired ideas a of Christ prophet works will vindicated. WS: Yes. RM: Thank And you [END not too very OF far in the future. much. SIDE TWO AND 221 END OF INTERVIEWS] and as a the ultimately