William Mulder, Salt Lake City, Utah: interview by Everett L. Cooley

Transcript (218 pages) of interviews by Everett L. Cooley with William Mulder, University of Utah professor emeritus of English, on February 9, 16, and 23, and March 8, 1988. This interview is no. 204 in the Everett L. Cooley Oral History Project, and tape nos. U-722 through U-729

Mulder (b. 1915) recalls his family and personal history, early life in Salt Lake, education, military service, Scandinavian studies, four sojourns in India, responsibilities at the University of Utah including his editorship of the Western Humanities Review, his work with the establishment of the Middle East Center, tenure as a faculty member of the English Department, and association with the "Swearing Elders." Interviewer: Everett L. Cooley

Interview No. WILLIAM MULDER 204 WILLIAM Salt Lake An City, L. Cooley Tape U-722 Interview February 9, February L. By Cooley Oral History through #1, 16, #2, University Lake and 23, Library of City, Project U-729 #3, February Marriott Salt Utah Interview Everett Everett MULDER Utah. Utah #4 and March 8, 1988 THE fl:‘é‘%figgv UNI\/EDS'TY OF UTAH EVERETT SALT LAKE GITV. UTAW a2 L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION Date 22l K. 1558 2)of55, 2/4/58 I willingly contribute my testimony recorded on 2 - i 52 S/F5F 7 the to scholarly the of Library University of Utah to be 7 used purposes. Pz Open and Usable usable with the after my following review. restrictions: Interviewee i / Interviewer %fl/gfi/ for Table Randlvand of BEersanalfHic toryiet EarlyesaltahakeNCityeDays., Fducational Mt Contents EXperiences Ayl S EVAICE Sl g . s il i Sl s« i o mhs .0 Gileite iy mrabars. S Experiencesi: UniveEesityplofiUtahWPresidents SwearingPRlldeEsivg Saiiois. oy Gl . e StudialesminiScandinaviagandiindiial,. UniversitylofiUtah ol LR i . Menaainni s el & okl cWEle s s v iedea L. dehie v il o126 e . o e RR e L. s o o, o« B (ST 45 wel NT8 scu.datisn Lak 153 o, Yo B 190 e e 22 TODAY IS INTERVIEW ENGLISH. MARRIOTT HISTORY [EVERETT EC: TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1988 AND WE'RE RECORDING AN WITH WILLIAM MULDER, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF WE'RE RECORDING IN THE ECCLES ROOM OF THE LIBRARY. THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL PROGRAM AND THIS IS INTERVIEW ONE, TAPE ONE. L. COOLEY IS THE INTERVIEWER.] Bill, of let's your Well, of that born in your father as young church. is was on a to meantime, and clearly the a to Church. An name pipe-fitter on parents come of that Island. elder America, time. Salt was working the their in a a one over in have some matter of of of my dock in in to fact, my 1love, got in the America. Very was membership Zion, it was the mother's Church. yards So just and the family--had in he of was Hoboken helped five my at recollection arrival father gone He turning flashes class, met Mormons dock. was had the mother--my the was Holland. church was I what part of vivid Ev. Mormon go member I born, the sea-faring 1920. third to City were bit of the their of that crossing, As fell a were father branch there, Lake as and in brother not ships I a on little beginning, mother sights Visser, you interested met a 1915--Haarlem, in motivation lodestone. on 24, members set us history. the My both They became family June printer. were say. the at give when family investigators They you where, beginning married, in having early Holland My had by background, something WM: begin was at very Ellis dark. WILLIAM He MULDER #1 had some French a kind of had handlebar, He was Holland, the his nail father all Father hall. ever to with and being him the then. by 1line, not I inspections ran us through say something see pictures those flags, where it all kind emigration. they 2 It realized and up so as to very in up. my sat back an older I she'd out of an had reached we Father either high had complicated went through something. trough, all antipathy that I sat that whether turned in Ellis thinking say I went and superficial. a we comes me, on. when, guess of and wondering was clammed it frantic, I we now than and Island, day Mother older Well, sheep All a left shop as Ellis side. supposed I at I really and Well, of we blackened. one speaking like print also black. before the off. disease were at fall there was just to Finally, communicable His and mother again. Mediterranean matters was deported, toward no hair months my Apparently, by black. very that's right. tide much was all fourteen long see When He not 1lines off that Ann, was it background. mustache, accident and shunted vividly day an emigration draped sister, very about the huge Island had thumb was that was the olive-skinned, was through very it he'd injured in handlebar but rather blood They but I The just had to remember or WILLIAM MULDER #1 remember shook because me. Vim Apparently I Well, Hoboken. piling my into my uncle's we were uncle a mother says fllaughter]) BECs on How did Until 1926. shipyards as a how unaccustomed printer, firm in mistaken the ride prune and swollen work. did York a City, what first of to driven says the that horseman but my that he questions. My see us, during that stay Well, was where was Van interim as a to they hulls. wrists job the 3 being any job these Dad get to 1I've Hoboken? his But island of [laugh] John painter us experience. in Uncle 1let money, to and recollection the without Willem. father sandwiches father's my Say the because have money remain My my flustered emigrant you about and FELlhbNsSSTEslands this and New and ate with scraper saying we a Vim, they off vivid and didn't happy "on lingered long We over a carriage for She Dutchman But boat Hoboken, taken so last have and in $25.00. handed the story. for 1little [chuckle] do horse place was just I really charged got the nickname stubborn mouth. There told something. my a we has "Say was was open through. mother "Zegiets." something." didn't my go took I Rees jobs Dad from there I Dad as with Company. on that craftsman pressman the recall were fine to a may were, a big be but WILLIAM MULDER that's #1 the home one the of One was Ariel, fascinated BE: Your them ink by ideas first I remember signatures of printer's getting remember. wunsewn printing. Another I was The was the of in bringing they were Riders to the Sea. Shelley. conditioning whole down books Synge's Life my of his So and process of the I was book smell always making-- print. schooling then was in this country in which is on sea level. Hoboken? In Secaucus, the go and heights up the uncle that had he boy, from Jersey Hoboken, Palisades to little cottage a rented backed later to us City, which Jersey on after is at City and Meadow that first up You Secaucus. Lane in Secaucus arrival. It the Hackensack River and that the Hackensack would flood every spring. that some of eight years old--we got terribly I recall very vividly neighborhood kids--six, floated around rafts in seven, the backyard recall, was by Once I My and as a the wet. ECs What about English Well, ink were your in school learning the language? apparently had experiences something very eager I took to to do to Maybe the that, but Mother English and to with learn 4 books. printer's get and Dad ahead. WILLIAM MULDER They #1 had been Holland. idea I where Carol into in studying recall one it now, is English the to my school grade know a how woman Then Dad, Their De but of literate the the work how we seem my be writing neat up their with have a very to paid a were own our hands study. how to visit to doing, I was a They Church, because and very concerned I went to a small with regimented, neat. are, highly commerce was was both Calvinistic, Holland a always proficiency. as doing of lessons. Holland, I don't recollection were procedures 5 house. course be give engaged Reformed Teaching schools they strict of I'd English Dutch tongue. learn translated limited. wasn't world. our in the multi-lingual the I to developed and own But no Christmas business, the which nieces sloppy to call reform, had when that of we truly Kids '60s was have words. family printing schooling was I my they their of but I words book. come so in rest strict. the the these little leaving Dickens' of of giving Kerk, moderate nation, and what Hervormde it's to before possession, lot came, words, formal out that she in with a teacher coming dealing came have often but equivalents anything English family with Dutch some I recall and saw amazed how these Jersey to in the think un-strict kids about City were keeping public WILLIAM MULDER #1 school, and use teachers who were immigrant kid. I'm interest the a in me, library series and of events. To this and books wasn't I aware recall make In a I saw they of What about here? You were Absolutely. my Hoboken "Mission. And was our own on the shelf. reading in how Church? worried course, were branch was president 6 They parents I was I but would reading. I was open this branch not or very involved that the his novels. spaces and the deciding force something? was of got impressions. a a father Cooper's there of library regard, that my random Was part was absorbed--Cooper--the great a my reading are to avidly. that well incidentally, These discovery to company, Cooper's get historical I from to War--American little America special Altshelir, down and young of me had by still got a for I a kind One different attending Of go much parents The can a of people Completely on. the Civil we how as so young was were America and took books. nine when of images forests and that stories. first He at library. possible Altshelir enough. Indian it I and point playing made for day by that fact, they the public encouraging sure books vivid, the recommended about see of very and especially were EC: made branch in with Hoboken it. Eastern mission for The States a good WILLTAM MULDER part #1 of the Roberts. I time have conferences Latter-day mission state a very would be Saints had their is in or So I figure, regal at some (So help that I me--a lot's I because we Hoboken, no fast day that it was slip us some day. But in my standing then, but recall nine. I feel come and [laugh] the I days were a down days, realizing I during remember, that 1long which B. H. picked up out of testimony at bearing no a those as at was Secaucus In did, one steps. There mother, almost sensation 7 from lunch. had on he had there the Maybe fast being dignified cane. that meeting ward in recall just our along now.) testimony very enough a sometime a what deliberate my at The a branch back goods H. before coming to H. and was very well with kids, one of walked B. of a using the I age was But bake it the was day. present, seat, he of exactly one H., fast on us 1like no hard know visit B. building to breakfast, meant was Brooklyn. standing he He meeting. trial of to that disability. testimony the but think time own Brigham came occasion. had to He in don't almost, congregation. real where, recall held I building--sort there recollection which Brooklyn. houses. were vivid in it notable we home handsome years that my idea still what of a I kind was said of WILLIAM MULDER energy #1 and myself. burning And reminding thought of the when there of in on Palisades, presidency, and families his the I'm There is sister the Ann to Oh yes. When I I of banks and this and so years. were declare young on. So I your very haven't question the Hudson of the Hudson, usually below Mormon branch of that his counselors very down just one became and River, became know lad involved, up were counselors who places to When me back is in afe still were dioramas, there at for to on the Museum New the branch good New is York that as as and friends Zoo 8 or a had on take Central my Park History-- to back visit very megalopolis and son, strongly even Polynesian first a now, remembered the memorable would to recently came [pause] most weekend tremendous entrance the islands I minute. Natural York it exactly a of theatre, a too, Bronx there the just thing, Dad, to although exhibits stop American went because sits the secular and the Paul, great we father going occasions. or and up family. Bill, of years these My of note excursions beach get Smith Yeah, were to made Joseph that activities. of ECS H. memory. Lee's the EE him jogs to B. desire these certain them--the canoe floor of that the WILLIAM MULDER museum #1 of were natural great history, occasions. Fulton Ferry, the picnic things on environs of up my own Brooklyn the the Hudson have is painters sojourn has made went ofAmy on City, Company. in his divorce in our istan with for and think family. and health. up the on ahead there may have think my they who that yoew place, long father days Dad 9 made the name night an was 1924 a eastern one us 0il to Salt Refining edge of of journey, much one a peacemaker which 1925, of hanging great point difficulty the or our brother independent shifts usually at some on up while of were the built our Utah been in at another railroad know, Working his got the of recognition And to gone exhibit the visit for took Then a work thing, spending fixing had mother, family, them. pay "Crossing much City. to I my epic his who Lake terms recently all its in attachment but up and the question impact, to Marinus, I Without the picking York saw how emotional Salt ahead mother's Lake realized an on I these taking Whitman's of memories. Dad say, So dividends school certain set New when the were so Or through sights and [laugh] I that. Market, paid to, Museum, there, of down Fish way, River Metropolitan there Fulton our Ferry." all Going response Hudson and to be journey the time wallpaper, to do all of WILLIAM MULDER this #1 work later himself from City, Salt up. But That Lake varnishing his back, he with pursued his what Salt Lake meeting with our us too, and career helped come So over. experience, another, we Uncle he a had book with Henry a my paid cast us an image 10 a there were all in New debts, and her in the is, and come there, means in that middle, my In brought do you call onto a screen. to immigrant the that to and, husband the assistance point of--what was and in visit a Lake, anticipations. a to Salt to handing there So going ahead typical of West coming There emigration One out who'd sister chain images, machine and a right coast. filled know. painting, Visser, back very In thing, Dad like, were we 1Life. of and So repay is Mom baker. Mother's you were Atlantic to this forming a But working meanwhile, and as always came relatives. gone was his he was Henry then connections. Jersey, visit remember brother, America these And that Jersey kind doing moved in his that I telling younger on he through do We place went, wallpaper, But health. to lived. a we all loved hanging we rented everywhere floors. conference, and where centinued City self-trained, for matter Secaucus itself. Fixing no to way, on the head was fact, once back--I think that? So You one take night WILLIAM MULDER at home, I members from our dining Oh recall over, wall verse E€: #1 a from You know, are a Henry book about room, on someone "Out little friends and flashed Salt the Lake. out no these I doubt yes, the on and recall where Church pictures Oh wall, about where we the then there West to family Yes, of in was a begins. four and Vermont to Eastern Molly to West, this with to the Mission I'll we whom take the 1515 a my English ready kids a a I was America, we his finally very for up sister, family Mary farm by an get had And articulate, you truer, paying when six--were Church very and to Dad Mary, Vermont Higginson, help so parents. a come meantime, Jersey, about be little Obviously we'd up, skies time? born, the States personality, going were the the move-- New Mary converted "Well, in and eleven at why saving the where a begins." of In and make Jr., children well. going. because Albert, sense begins, friendships West the debts West and the were ready the bluer, by emigration got where where surrounded A and had yes. that's E€: we and shipped family and of four I--I was off to who had been missionary in the parents woman, knew an literate that to very unusual who said, uprooting Vermont for and the WILLIAM MULDER #1 summer." had And another [chuckle] a that recall I vivid again was to Quite a you'd It parents was in the who been had He bought we had almost Highway had Hudson. in kind just call came Vermont to it opened, a country and 12 that might around-- by any town. My come West, West too. now. have in Thé was and 1926 Lincoln just a First, been a sister, youngsters too. it 1like mother's Coming road cows, all and two but what four-cylinder to pioneering, been lane--we'd up of than 1looked my had days. Mormon pigs, village decided those the ranching that They convert farm Willis-Knight, over, I crowd. the of me this where Western husband enabled experience. experience England uncle, and a farm these Horses, automobile, old four see. old brought an on you clearly with the Jersey. New an my to Frost associations. of meeting has Robert and buggy New the passenger And kind farming--not bought hearse. was of double experience living kind place of to doubt, locales of and no but these preaching picking, pastoral take Whitman, horse marvelous, blueberry I that kind Vermont, me. sense a were in to a different was seven in some been means. take very missionaries It on driving farmer E€: impact experiences, have So summer as regional to that the twothey most WILLIAM MULDER #1 hazardous those part the mountainous trying. I've where we were, there we made Cumorah EES of and went west. What did roads trip because and so forgotten the exact but it was near kind of pilgrimage, did all a Nauvoo, you whole have, and a tent you'd on, getting could name prove very the town and from of Rutland, stopped these things pitch, up or how at as we did you sleep? That's right. front and tents and the rear as picturesy other. starting some and cars that folding we now, migration, o0ld bumpers your Okies each The made it we cots our were mechanism. on way two had What do them. so to I look that we difficulties call your anticipated When thét and stack We "about™ they I you west. cars car business running-boards enabled wastjusts Our transformer had that? at kind of could help with the There was think. Magneto? Magneto. Yes. There you constant go. The trouble, magneto and driver, anyway--very through places like Dad seemed wasn't inexperienced. Omaha 13 with my to a me heck I eyes to of recall shut give a good coming tight so WILLIAM I MULDER #1 wouldn't happen. be Well, we Sometimes there they little were car alongside, that kind was ahead was just it was the tap we us outside of like --she take the had to caught a ush Omaha, my uncle. had "wasih it an that previously and get attention, so our blurred. on But state cars, his army the line bugle families bugle of 14 and got uncle who what. of it, It maybe weekend, and said had did that she not travel we should sheer bugle he and but seen us bit is we reached stopped and Utah. We my uncle blew joy. him couldn't That as we blared had" him. again out, passed blew, missed and miles almost and in day some said, blew out, the cars or a we army Wyoming got out " he comes between drive Right? We old we but off-- enough, with motels, my woman, that wup he was feeling sure way. the think to the toilets, turn to experience. sometime both day and O wrong going to whether normally a pioneer place point British was of public It although but a come road, down-" the a the apparently, on know taken strong campgrounds one Nebraska. that was water, At remarkable sure with for had was beginnings didn't Sundays--Sunday Just the thing. of feeling on a I at cottages and this what stopped Lincoln, Molly, by were of separated, EC: scared blasts WILLIAM MULDER EC: Oh, what WM: You know, they #1 a of here flowers and a final came into and so Sometimes he had day, we so he Salt the pioneers rebaptized, friends day, that reenacting were trouble. miles story. sort got tire great Lake uncle's made no more changes his to rims. to when fruits My decided on with on. many just met who, and car had than fifty make. heck And with [laughter] on it, and This is 26T EC: Sure. only And of gave They course you were a the few very tires hundred narrow. in those days, at best, they were miles. Pneumatic tires called. EC: What were looked your impressions, over the valley dusk, but we Bill, as you when you came came and down Parley's sense of--that Canyon? It was was before and so opening Utah we had on. It of the before we the was valley the Marinus, who his wife weathered had Salt Lake. children enough closer that obliterated Great they had cloverleafs much the had still We worked the the Utah with 0il marital ages the that scene. stayed their 15 to greeted for about and of billboards breath-taking all travelers And my yes, elder Refining. we to saw uncle, He and difficulties and our set. They had WILLIAM MULDER chicken #1 coops, door to fair grounds. what something a sort thought house we were the Junior School or sister was "This of we where more and sister so to was summer again, bought Runs yes. We were put school, just to be recall boy should here a that in be then moved embarrassed, so I what she experience and Sixth North Wall Street. below Clinton and Capitol 16 a teacher school." of over she can did. the to said, And Avenue Hill. "I'm east later from ahead wasn't I was going of at My to go you." schooling-- that which at my Junior. ahead by to there that My grade far Jordan keep because runs So year and Middle said He's a down School. first up. had School Riverside the moved this year--part in I getting Riverside put was south, in on just farther was house to then are. I that that Riverside I side Lake And North, So Library, a up Oh much That's west Fifth but Sixth lived. Salt West, school [laughter] rural next grounds--the Chapman are Riverside, Uncle [laugh] enough than almost about to. Junior. parents, and where the here, exposition coming grade old is out the West of Ninth Jordan much that taste right today Ninth of where Jordan EES is like on near rabbits, time is First we'd between West. WILLIAM MULDER EC2 Just WM: Exactly. below the I School, and Is LDS a Well, Or a was a had case your anything of LDS was was no question but very close-knit of Improvement the Jimmy Dalby, Marba Moss, taught Alfred, who young, handsome lovely little was us campus number of people who of who did attend One Margetts, of the was me High class to give best. I've heard LDS some in that's Pete newcomers C. to Era; our LDS Couch, to 447 the of of heart High Vadal teacher- Senator Moss's Dalby, Waldo the teacher. old Osmond, Y. It was a was a town. me, faculty smaii, became at of great who young teach a was teacher; impressed became LTt Josephson, English the had community theology; inspiring thing Ralph parents what Latin used one U. LDS graduating termsetiuilEYs i facuility. an editor LDS best? like Well, to to that-- a father, : of people of familiar going last students, son very that effort that felt there Ezra there. Street of they reputationitints EC: part training? opinion but Center conscious it Well, became religious was the Street walked I district, High. this you Marmalade Center because from EC: #1 Bill, members School: is at Merv the the U. Hogan, Peterson. faculty was young Lowell WILLIAM MULDER #1 Lees, fresh named Miner home taught [END E€: This is with Bill to Yes, OF here of I cosmos. It hardly knew doing, but have was we The trainer there swimming later became instructor. Brother We His remember people. who submitted an some '‘contest. I see, that Ashton, now on of a a were world was to read and to write and our swimming our at that and that a the mission 18 Welch-- was of coach. Pete U., Couch, was our workshop his certainly some still in I've venerable written Buzz a very I And name, Marba prize. with remember. as had gym don't alive dollar thing. abilities. instructor. up I enclosed, the the name 1little of years, think School. nice Charlie essay kind High 0Old young got school rest figures very the the woodworking I into gym. name one coming we our had first which tape his was with big faces, Some what was Hinckley. forgotten. I a in one, LDS commensurate for coach at High learning was Somebody about integrated enclave activities Gym number talking LDS about Deseret who and were France. TAPE] attendance the much OF we're saying, The The ONE and his was in interview City, and mission Spanish. SIDE two Lake a us Mulder, as to EC: side Salt system from Josephson, in class [chuckle] Ashton, England, to You Wendell I guess, WILLIAM MULDER who became the Gold general and manager Blue, when I how to type if through that paper was because in chemistry he school was then the I of sent me about a He up to interview then. with the University through Let me interrupt here, of a of those of Olive program of who students a went that influence for publishing you all? She I know Dale her. She something an to what association that. under the some kind began Morgan the for beyond like 1liked in Quinn else come at writing. bike experiences the contest my it, and with Professor nothing for learn journalist, on and of that's better connection up did editor and chemistry feeling Burt wrote a early campus had be I'd an lower I me statewide was paper, got I But told to students. the News, school wanted I the high encouraged. U. high EC: #1 to was one have the Deseret News, I believe. Could well But you Not part the Gold going our month like be. I weren't of paper or the to know of part of this program. that. and over got Blue to on the big maybe Daily No. It and was then Deseret flat once Chronicle 419 when we quarter. by any to know newspaper News beds; a and I plant came It means, Olive. writing became which out was but for editor, published only no once big we cut a deal our WILLIAM MULDER #1 eye-teeth. Earl anticipating. No, Chronicle. was Gold It and Blue Bennion, 1like wrote was forth. EEC: became the Yes, and he was class president. Yeah, could think his Moss. when Moss was soliciting for stimulating from have student-body Later, support Was was it OfMcourse ads. on the editor of the associate editor. and Spencer The Jack business to manager KSL Bruce McConkie a generation ASUU and so was our there president--the Dick jewelers. up been, here but I've wrote for He with the it University, our president, somebody mentioned very So the was or a Jimmy the running prominent was Ralphs Moss, Chronicle, manager was paper. at he president, business the in now ads. I getting tremendously time. sort LDS I U. Frances my was vice-president. Senator mean there I'm editor, went court. sorry. the was became later president well who copy. who Bennion at Stewart and Bennion I'm up became Ross So who I sister, student judge. Dick as EECs a was Ashton articles had editor. when Martha obviously. I Glade Richards, We court Earl and feature Wayne was Buzz Lowell's People Glade of you would B foreordained attend the woullditibe " the 20 that after University first to graduation of go Utah? to the WILLIAM MULDER #1 University, that end. all I was for shine had of a Let me and was as very to a We maybe for woman who on of Mary's Mary the lived telephone thought sister one like children the We in to that worked buyers the took ward carriage and and sense on. ask about your father. Did he get printer? rough. difficult. said, so and again, their operator. office influence interrupt employment It the see later, expectation eager working and, her--some shaping person was an were to switchboard in built parents Ann "punkins", to had families, a Auerbach I my sister as some then suppose My company EC: by immigrant advance. a but were I've I recall very the poor. said, was first Our on year first Ninth being very house, West as down I near Riverside. EC: Yes. Okay. The house remember Knight very and good garage of it well Mother driver. and it [chuckle] driving house itself was to my went was just because was we she into Jordan simply to house 2! to cottage, and that Willis- had drive bushes River. stick uncle's to backed the the tiny still learning Twice a and was not the car out on the embankment [laughter] Ninth West [laughter] of Her from past I a the best our the WILLIAM MULDER #1 fairgrounds. bought on That Clinton recall, for earning maybe payment because as fee. his house. didn't I'm the So clear sorry. Job Company, father been the big of where Box-Making had got I on the was lot car place bought, of that we as money, became willing S theld to baby I Dad the down take that and University s got a seort: of that- your father got employment. presses--Seagull printing doing break, rid a The was sense Okay. seemed week. tor in house salesman geing® a it a we in turned That but $30.00 Oh, was Avenue. $3,600, foreordained We car 1labels, three-color think, Press, came you Kknow. process when Western he work. got a My Then job at Paragon. Oh yes. And then very fine Yes On on Richards the Paragon or yearbooks. and Wallis was a Street. so he Stevens which was and doing, Wallis, I the think at job was and at lot of big was-- publication. official and Stevens company. Street, Grower national Wallis. Richards Paragon Wool --the and printing indeed, either A Stevens organ Stevens They did of and some 22 the wool Wallis printing growers they of did books a for one WILLIAM MULDER #1 publisher or kind of end of and another, thing his he was but got a been lot of and Well, mortgaged do on 1880 help me. she lived deing She of Dad. to dream employed publishing Millcreek and this In venture. wanted the tof maybe be in at a had half an unprepared for what would and -mean he how a always of getting take 23 in a care had was notion part coop baby of of own out was thousand an still his place He so that was before all so been was chicken of various her--well, he ground. to \shewwas. the a that sixties, while bought by cleaning, That Wallis, things. for there had of continued »'So farmer. and salesman had her ‘woerk. two-story acre to in meantime, and venture, which iy hard again, of fee woman West, Stevens a and the Mother vigorous chicken the And Stevens place they house had the Publishing kinds did the Dad all for eighty-six let supportive a toward Wallis--lots that and the from that and and East. doing Mercury house her still till a abortive was Then business research engaged do. was salesman Stevens 21st Dad job-printing the the South who a printing genealogical patrons he job to the a for yearbooks time and really getting Dad he established It had gradually equipped life, Company. they was work Wallis so that on in it totally chicks and a WILLIAM MULDER tiny #1 house. wooden cottage schemed out to of house and I was know and and bought the place recall calling lying on a in She Was this I Were you I on the living see that indeed--little mother she my distressed could did. on mother at She 1880 room, this suffered got when 21st she a way would Dad South with the and was terrible things never were work. But dream. while guess was you I were at the University? home at that was. living at actually time? after-- see. Well, I got during a point, and mission mission, much was at married final in I model, to nurtured there. And the '37. for who Marba a I meantime. the was of with the at senior. I was from a on a back chicken Holland venture at influence I breaking was '41 Era gracious talent 24 to back war--1940, another war twins remember Improvement whatever had I the Josephson, We week went Dad's beginning Evans, and just Holland. '35 the in examination was working Richard of so this Yes, It sofa and had my thing I Dad that tiny that East. going. very unload that headache EC: The out, pretty because that as people had one while and a I time. kind who of sort working lots of WILLIAM MULDER things becoming scarce Richard Evans the of our own of thing. place got That in was house, too, had this Era, we et rural get on your the darn cream or those o0ld or to Hall. to home. the keep I Well, believe an can't peaches, old much barn Jjoy to peak-roofed paint. I'd the the cold, and some that kind had found of orchard, You the to learn in a bring get how to in of one Building, I 1ledge Richard cow of office the then a bottle Building. on the Thornley had Young at Richard we'll Era I, Then got a see, working and Young wintertime it I raise maybe, put the of the would take [laughter] Bill, had was I acres I've Improvement It and while And rations, do Millcreek. place." the and cetera. Bountiful and to could cow cow. buildings, during window in thing LDS Barrett cream it so in a we three And I'll on wife dream. "Fine. and my et place here milk milk cetera, that up that about got it a because connection going notion Millcreek, run-down put and produce--get out said, EE? #1 Well, see you me, as I farmer. learned pears, how apricots, that would paint. It salt a have was that's a whole 215 prune cherries, given Jjust cellar-shaped to chapter apples, LeConte exactly barn trees. that of We and Stewart the kind of he loved to course in life WILLIAM MULDER after #1 school into the I the One of No, was that as ensign. sent You had Very for I'm or were to to Era and waiting I or then to getting be applied something youngsters, V-7 We down of eligible, programs called assigned He V-7 college. was the drafted, for and got Reserve. was it for Instead very Naval the through working service. because into and not We called Tucson to think, who but don't know were given a "ninety-day get that? I sure, not. like my got in whether commission wonders." naval training Russ Mortensen, I and was was communications. the same experience as then. much. did back the to Well, same thing. He went to Tucson and then Harvard. think of that. communications. stery ‘here; So, Right. Went probably »but iallsuof back to getting sthat Harvard ahead ds parti of of in our the background. EC: Sure. was Let's that get you came experiences you Well, back because go I to here, influenced I you think back the and to the University. University, some of and the some How of people it your who here. to LDS 1931 High 26 then, you closed in see, the as a spring freshman, of '31. WILLIAM MULDER One anecdote was an Susie B. were who getting John board one her the first father, married a apostle Era. and Dunford way of back and connection. by was the he not? and on As responsibilities, "Evidences Leah way, So for my staff-- himself, Improvement Gweneth and George Evans's an Widtsoe wife, Dunford responsible, was A. half-sister--children Gates--St. writer his called my had Widtsoe of of Richard was of marriage really onto A. relate--John Jacob is John to Cecil, who married John, ought half-brother, Young then I by Gates. Widtsoe Now that uncle Gibbs EC: #1 an the editorial apostle, and his that 1long Reconciliations" was series ran in the Era. E€: Yes. I recall about a write in seeing two-inch by divisions. John that also about the days A. was with my film on come left emendations to I work of Brigham historical was 27 that for at all Young was providing church could I'm and the Era, kinds because being And he with additions researching Young in so always working background. interest in and Brigham responsible own the while me the makers the set when John margin hand And typescript Widtsoce things was his of that produced. the quite £filmsure history--Western WILLIAM MULDER #1 history--got a big thing--reading EC: So you were were at that Oh, all After But came the to Improvement Sorry. so the but ZCMI I I After from my kind of Era while you marriage. '39 on about university in 19317 had a very in '33 Wholesale first department split career '4 '5, and and Hardware. worked as like a That that. because I went came bootblack to about in the store. EspEthatieight? And overheard the about Wholesale Hardware--someone polishing else. Yes, Those that other was her high Jjob for shoes. an who She department manager errand at boy would was need a the bike. I talking to someone to her office and interviews and so got had been stands-- yes. --with asked a personnel speaking was EC: that sources. the Depression for because EE: later. marriage, yeah, work of doing right. you during at from LDS? came my Well, kinds working the No, all boost the pedestals. about job at went it, and the Wholesale things then I the for after ZCMI. basement. 28 I up Hardware. was They an I errand had a boy big on, for doing what bargain WILLIAM MULDER #1 basement. They stockboy, G. sort Homer "My of Durham working was had is used Sr., teacher at were organizing been Glee East for built as sermons. We Sacrament interrupting Wholesale the mission from job. National well It as so of the connected the was Recovery in Act, and 29 Ward used days I Eleventh to say, recall "We George 1little singing comes So to ZCMI, I went That was the the Blue having and on a at mind, experience, that. met on valley of had We 1lecture, Hardware. they whom because University. with the of Boys' come." that H. influential most basement Wholesale George said the the under Homer we So people G. 1little on. chorus be must I me, would sang," over and flow a male the "You and to Club, chorus, was and Glee when South, Hardware, personalities it days He said another the So us meetings of said, all he LDS Thirty-third give went an male he Tenth always in LDS the character would time at that teacher, High. an about then was those University Glee Club sang boys, Sunday and I LDS Club the In I department. the core music LDS. Club every the in the Glee grocery was there. stockboy. organizing sing Durham, the it Well, to and store attending this--and consisting--" who in while father grocery errand was there doing a my full- Eagle-to go to WILLIAM MULDER #1 an office in the work for what or had to I ZCMI. of And get my where sorted I chaix, errand boy. people who business. "but I one to run Mann, then called paper boy for paper to and do Gus running one and winter she had for a was a to and she a daily Wholesale to fill orders. important justiia how I <clerk, got to route Hilght Lake Town went looking the route. me in. geEioutNanShouceaEliyasfrom' 30 in He the said, They the had at to Horace afternoon out to the I school who yard the apparently Telegram "Let was was and so Block Lake. me arranged schoolls of in I'd Salt window from Ethe number an Arbuckle, out in N got " alsoblasHa clear friends Miss a was Telegram, and North some I ZCMI know, because when Jfinior you' know that there prominent bikes that meeting sitting pretty Salt called to the was West a from binder who and run huge in representative boy a at room route day would take that big about with do some paper Swede around principal, boy," the to wage, in all -the minimum had became a than to up that's knew permission West) was later get permission orders very T But I out felt to less of bicycle, Second they Ehat® kind departments [laughter] been orders, (on of capitol have some 1invoices, heads get must with Hardware state to that looking see that have I me could WILLIAM MULDER wheel by up to bus. would EC: #1 Do I do you Warm Springs picked that the the papers paper route. It what you'd recall up where papers there was were and on terrible in get--a few dumped my bike winter. cents per paper--was the paper? The big that EC: Oh money I had St. Marks cents a my fact Hospital on beat. kind what--influence--moving yes. And that's about another from people ward in was I the had the nexth ™ Eol with I the the Tribune, the fingers bike. on it Swede extra supply I got a had would Town, a in Sunday edition big it of that thing far went and so Pilgot Ya the Salt otherwise. winter morning. [laughter] the making il the %sol for people crew had on that I or sides have because become Well, not And cleaning refinery, would times gravy. and selling apiece stewards the these because nickel almost oilly Sundays [laughter] to an and thel seeing suffering, neighborhoods dreadful room, Filipino, certainly came to their was kitchens that Telegram that in familiarity recall and mostly enrandy Lake but bunks, working room straits, always papers, of ward, unpredictable, those to to their newspapers. out maker--five days It and was how was the like stiff riding about I on the getting that there WILLIAM MULDER was a little treated that was a dime. money dining store a cost a in always only it would a a to toward my in saving the Cycle Company $2.50 a paid. One these great--what week a tell drawer you sweet see. Or of ice box and that mother who kept bureau I in paid bike was of Sundae, the that usually kind bike. for I square as room, of and nickel, little known have in there roll--some Sundae--a syrup I out nickel days called with a to those they cream grocery myself in what my #1 the Guthrie until it was name of the to me. the bike? EC: Schwinn? No, It no. That was was the when unlocked found Mother. police what pay before of once I the bills these. I meeting went Ran Will," up all no on the wife once Fuel today, time comes cage, 32 and and used a month, producing to Utah think from to go that the and to even Kknow down and and concern by all about experience and to the physically bill it bike out back Power my the report didn't I thing came went We and I 1left home phone. come terrible Then were. Mother my a way said. had tell to the she Mountain What will Woolworth accounts for It downtown into into bills day. went station--we checking Schwinn. the I gone. "Oh walking going bike as it was of the WILLIAM MULDER money #1 and relieved Mother another EC: paying was month. Money put or That to was Mother the But this pay magnanimous take that." was get set. We had had a and so for the doors to did and I and dining Mother that dinner occasions. for All with room was, set, of for set of and almost and and that 33 My all Ann who related to and and dinner had never working the parlor, we Christmas in kept eve the when We set the cutlery and opened What to a really used I was surprise doors, that was just that a was the on felt accompaniment and fainted. so it the gifts. the I ZCMI family if that Mom, discount, room shut and "Well, conspired sliding then Christmases (sister dining your from were, say, dishes. exchange dinner it working company) were borrow employee's I the our think surprise family the new of for well, marvelous set this and things was dinner there have the I was could miscellaneous Between days, care how spend? could great sister those with a telephone family. we at I the when complete my seeing taken bike, tight if of to she how One to and was drawer, the money, very able home, that yours for that's remember, that bureau was needed fund. going [laugh] in education it, for working table up tremendous became all the special for ZCMI. WILLIAM MULDER Well, my recall to #1 schooling taking keep School in classical are the B. Neff the the side. slack advance over remember very working. And Library old which was one venues for I took the evening class history from Jake Geerlings. people like Jake Geerlings kind Jake was the well selling furnace. That doing I'd run noon in off was still stokers was a use great classes, while Salt read S. they you two the and and when addition to hours Mercury--Mencken Those in Those furnace know, S. class because you stoking. as a teaching, stokers, o0ld my of took from I feed then an of novel. and the during American 15{e to wanted the Furnace coal I I at that money because '33. university, when did though, from the modern ancient days needed on the then with classes. Neff interrupted classes, touch university B. night in Lafayette was I Lake like I was Public mad--The editor. ¥est [chuckle] I kind bombastic of statement. where old now oak stacks upstairs recall I we how exciting prose, loved the old it that Salt the Planetarium furniture and the under the arranged o0ld in the 34 Dewey cases to read radical Lake have smell was and of the Public that around of Library wonderful books Decimal all kind that in System, one the and of the WILLTAM MULDER big EC: #1 reading Utah Utah books. Collection. The Utah or Collection territorial When the I was Mrs. doing We used to were to do a door to us on Clinton mother of Ruth her Grandma battalion. Of Ogden. Captain And and that James fact Brown, Jensen's background. there in the taste really later that I stuff that Widtsoce there was materials recall come how upon Jenson's black Salt of a a I Utah find of I Library Era But where was I when and I 35 they of Ruth who I of Clawson. had of out a more and about" Grandma collection and got a because it can see now in might the be up first into it very Captain got think the 1lived and working remember chronology narrative Avenue, that apprenticeship chronology, chronology. to the needed. at Ogden materials, for knowledge volume--a to went Public using excited me So worked and led a there. English descendant establishing Lake kind a state gone became Jensen, was old freshman life, who the had we Brown Ogden. it in 1life, Of of was paper call the think term interesting of I a Next Jensen, which 1library--part University, someone. EE€: rooms, was the that use of found. I for the Era it was Andrew was a Church and to slender I said WILLIAM to MULDER Richard #1 one day--called him SECE == [END OF TAPE 36 ONE] Brother Evans, you THIS IS TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE OF AN INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM MULDER AND TODAY IS TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1988 AND WE'RE RECORDING IN THE ECCLES ROOM OF THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY. [THE INTERVIEWER IS EVERETT L. COOLEY AND THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT AT THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY. TAPE #2 OF THE SERIES.] EC: Bill in WM: is giving Salt Lake some of with the Okay, I Salt his and was was, a whole Elder Evans--"Gosh, which as particular blessing. I don't assignments the and making there. even freshman story of a there my was when with and out immigrant Era think and that doing my could that the background, do And And but to a in that's just mark series highlight he the Era suggestion could gave it materialized. along, stimulated Si the entry I in for an to resources, of ever came its volume we it there resorting black event." things my and we along, paper days affiliation Chronology. enough maybe Then early his working event, possibilities to discovering slender come moment his Improvement prior Jenson's important dates the about Library, chronology of Utah. talking Andrew particular of of excitement discovering straight for activities Public my it I background working other think then what some University Lake and us a to in that his Other but that was one realized were in the research for kind of my sense sources. and of And my how much because growing WILLIAM MULDER #2 familiarity natural topic then Sbyiithe that S hat i upent in widely grass roots history sense that right English language weeks, months William The Lund at was It was side. the the historical had So call it Instrument of I Marcus then historical been and Hansen's The emphasis alerted me that being I had history Blegen's all I time sources So immigrant Utah. and immigrants we selecti:a letters. American like almost to and in that Theodore here tapped. M.A. locking = ats by Works for seemed history in and the Aspect because Migration it language Press: history. been te: tHof own Language immigration Atlantic geot immigrant their more really T Culture" reading sources, s thelunotion Nordic Immigrant EC: time involved publications "The with told spent on to the had not from the days, hours, when Brother society watchdog. department, not the historical Cchurch historical society. Ifmisorry, department thef EC you're at right. 'No, the Forty-seven East South Temple on one of floors=—— Third floor. --with William Lund Frank Kooyman who'd mission was there as as chief been a a watchdog president translator. 38 and of Preston people the Nibley like Dutch was WILLIAM MULDER #2 grinding a very out familiar history, Oh the Danish Danish EC: books figure and papers, the his from the there as huge the I bound papers, will went to volumes Utah publication--it Bikuben, collection. Posten, come to I became the journal of Swedish the--oh, me in a the moment-- Beehive. yes. The Beehive, Ehink, the and Danish--these then the publications--that immigrant I of got that these sources--that's in working Christensen, whom poet, painter, not as full of the with my Dutch, some schooling it was not Swedish good handily Peterson. of the I German They and and these old so to to taken work were turn on. 39 know as of good and things. I'd M.A. discovered a (I'd Swede, to got Harvard. the I C. A. There at my was if I and papers So of, and the U.) vocabulary was who C. societies. closely made him in these a the thesis writer German very into But mastery up I mission I immigrant had man, at columns the knowledge, Dear Swedish in I got difficult through translators, with first Danish. reading when on when which too and I doings in later Scandinavia start weeklies, Scandinavian came history were in related-way an one had rather old of Hugo the trouble WILLIAM )& MULDER #2 you ever Did Bill, in having were they Yes. Well, not doing Well, given That was but they EES There you had these me, and time, things, since subject. employment some access. obviously. let me know or the to let or But I was just a a helpful Era. That I was well received, whatever I conspirator Alvin--what took would when of I there did some from have the to be it, seemed the same time, and so with you. For work there, was bypass-- was at helpful I must see. sort but the So that Smith to on newspapers, them Alvin very of that one-- curmudgeon, was like controversial wasn't Well, at you? to an_in, instance, very some with seemed a journals willing to liberal they then have difficulties access quite descriptive EE encounter was to I me a kind of realized that he Hugh Nibley. Of course, Yeah. Not Hugh--Preston appreciate the gathering of missions, the around. It was work record Nibley. that upon branches, just--oh think. 40 Andrew record the and Jenson had upon record wards, then I the young came done. to This from the churches all Olson--Earl, I WILLIAM MULDER EC: Grandson WM: At that a little kind #2 of Andrew. time and strategy that that might care about, their editing. he of little felt on I from found but that satisfied I pole as developed the clippings. tricky, quite totem So things clipped, they the helpful. taking a if lowest was be and they of would be think T sort clerk, of history was a journal Some things really didn't and took that they it out, had I done CORCcuUr. [laughter] I resorted One to source using, the that was compiled same I'm that of sort of sure big cohabs thing. they didn't 1ledger called realize that Andrew Prisoners for I was Jenson Conscience Sake. E€: Oh yes. Names pen of and wanted all I kind a of brethren consulted to appeared the find out there. So count, good generation but handle participation of in that who had been list for the how it many was there was not a enough the Scandinavians, 41 there the probably the statistics. terribly percentage, and into Scandinavian on polygamy put I names thorough to give @ extent first, the me . of second closest WILLIAM MULDER anybody #2 could know, I was anything that I delighted to and it to seemed interesting Had you Edgar No, to kind was an EC: get statistical of innocent would find discover me and studied a the this was here had would hurt the story. that you our we that church. heroic the But notion of story at no riches a positive up and source. history, This could university but I see. I guess tell. under Levi I had I met met Levi. Levi mission. when That he was was president early in my of the Harvard New career there. I was Young? England EC: I . thought Department perhaps when he up that you here was may the Western have come History under his influence. You I see, was as an busy™"deing ™ requirements experience that Louie the Bible, openers, EC: I and in kind and undergraduate, of the so realized thing. history first after English, I was courses English the two years, the--what ™' they " " call" freshman Zucker's in Bible was see. 42 only a that working very I'd for the in world as literature, like Thappy to do Chronicle literature incidental. ‘group were and eye- WILLIAM WM: I MULDER took dust, how #2 Creer's Civil European rich witEh i that whati but was, it and my far superior more writing The Patriotic the a does Civil and Harvard in '41, and get into a to Master's ough& thesis, into kind my seminar or Numerically I on, realized and whatever the that I might Well, wanted S onk you the Sthiis." to ' in do our experience at the back to Schlesinger, had with He me my said, "You Hist o forte \iwas "Yes, you can come of this something Mormon loomed Scandinavian course, of Arthur up. then off, went went ought inkling in I I by Aaron doing his, said, out figured was to the Wilson, Harvard I he element 43 got when of light and have what applied a an to explore Edmund had I So Scandinavians the I to and but seminar history, War. wanted War then Harvard Dan e Eolicapitalize immigration to 1like because and glove hands--people from Utah realize came history. of in as S4fn & fact, L my Civil but to books literature. University Sr. the War. War directly hand dry Later so Civil immigration come in Unwritten Gore imaginative into the history finally. studies, of how enough application interest American Dalgliesh, worked EiESE literature of took T s went . into, emphasized into I history, application--my get War. history." largest migration because to about WILLTAM MULDER 1905, #2 when from the Scandinavia migration was a in the to Bill, think time, the in work as New with, element migration the Puritan England. and I So it had been autobiographies, the Scandinavians. probably let's the University ALl right? Something of of influenced influence some large '40s to Mormon It doing was that a very work on history. I next as biographies, shaping immigrant about thing of important separated, 1630s, sample journalism EC: was sizeable able B kingdoms bring of others, you studies I've stop, but. to so here, Snow let's and talk tveNgeot REoltiilliiNsome N gapstivis with A. John to back heard Dorothy and have your let's entrance to Utah. your you. we'll Widtsoe as and you the speak there about must people who about the have been those. thinkis TN started ot£ uncle-- Yes. --and I getting That's It's ALl never to the right. amazing eight. finished that story which is related U. So how let's this do free that time. association Okay. [(END OF TAPE] 44 next gets us off-- in THIS IS OUR SECOND INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM MULDER, EMERITUS PROFESSOR OF ENGLISH, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH. TODAY IS FEBRUARY 16, 1988 AND WE'RE RECORDING IN THE ECCLES ROOM OF THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY. [EVERETT L. COOLEY IS THE INTERVIEWER. THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT. TAPE #3.] EC: Bill, of we've it and done I'm so here. one not interview, quite briefly, Now, you In fact, sure of we just could attended LDS and the in reviewing sequence establish High of a School some events chronology and graduated when? WM: 1931. Then EC: Okay. WM: I the high go to years. It was had take to EC: Following WM: No, then two EC: And in you to went talk WM: That came EC: I about did after And of you at as and well for you do? had know, two and I ZCMI. University? Two two Holland did fall you the then working in years and a 1935 in at half May the years and U., on came at the Improvement Era. In occur? marriage. spoke Warehouse. class. '37. that my what that course. I period Hardware of working, what see. years Yes, December then out--worked years mission. back school, years graduating down. Depression two Yes. final University the two the closed high the your no. was school Following did a it about When 45 did working at that occur? ZCMI Wholesale WILLIAM WM: MULDER That was ZCMI in these one #3 the '33-'34; the basement--no, stands day went '34-'35. and I talking right to an interviewed, and got errand but it boy, employment under the office the NRA an job. It into boy. break, was office a I got boy, good, minimum had director errand my in they personnel for rules bootblack floor during worked the a main opening her was the overheard about up on I steady wage and all Ehats EC: Okay, then upon your return from your Netherlands mission-Then I got Square, it. a I At job guess that program. itself, but remember, it of supplies by work the days ward for I it got Holland of Cornelius Zappey of Bas almost Van Welfare to its Square Second West, It was one of the center, and it was in for back coming to for forgot almost that was Furniture. as script Company. Dongen Welfare equivalent people something Holland 46 stake at developing not on going Furniture mine, been at, recall and I had Temple. big I bishop something office a getting ward job North was bishofi. companion a some script, of or Church warehouse. on pioneer the about and the was, was and auxiliaries kind it time welfare a through I A I the issued went to missionary working He said for they WILLIAM MULDER needed that it #3 some help welfare was there thing, during I that to run went time to married to Gates and Gibbs family. first wife through in '39 Is Gwen and she back this and that when at we and director spinal these and occasion for I and my of the was come John and A. A. told him quite was I was Furniture, and 47 at the he out in was '38 Cecil, of of recall about of during the Gates that Leah and what "Well, up. kind University, said, Music laid some regularly, inquiring had bedridden I and I B. was members visit. came this with really then, then School Choir breakdown cousins '38, father, McCune Tabernacle he My in because wife's the Occasionally John Holland and recall. property later a nervous would Widtsoe doing. little Cecil the and rancher? got was sons chicken some B. are by and "I’ it I was a of years. family twin That the a injury campus acquired director suffered this you became been as University. were'married, had side the came who He'd to of sister, on from get that daughter connection. birth when Millcreek Well, gave Gibbs to 'discount mother's Gibbs's Peter Gibbs her so Furniture, ability Gates, On Loren my good Gibbs Gibbs. that started B Gweneth office, Holland with Start—-upiSfurnituretrat¥a’ the on one I was working I should WILLIAM MULDER go and #3 talk editor of Richard copy BE? Richard the felt that editing, that Did continue continued who I at had Era." could be then at University? the been sure became a my made enough, useful doing really the just And very proofreading, So, you Evans Improvement things. I EC: to there in variety of employment. University. Part-time? That's right. Improvement my is two worked at Second like a are was before kind of the still and Sons Owl Books. yes, in in the from store I I which mission, I which was and and I there I did is now for so on. that I down that. William occupied on places always mentioned worked is my Drug and So think high, Store during hill--straight Brothers job. that groceries the that University--now the Osco mission. junior on Grocery sacked getting think where Brimley part-time boy I I the going about down before at confused. now. to before while Brothers walking South recall and bit years, that that back job, South--oh, Second Okay, also Brimley remember Oh Era memory first I But some as a Wood by Waking then, '37-- yes. to from straighten the out mission, '38 48 the chronology marriage, and then through WILLIAM MULDER the BES I #3 Widtsoe connection, suppose two that years prior as very So you And Snow people Another Zucker, I freshman kinds and of on I literature. thing, was Strackey work AN The and like ovel papers One work, did your have. there I 1liked to were an Earl another 49 doing found that read as found it was the were world the found taught 1liked a of term by Lytton style of quarter thelEarthes 1t from the another always but I I we out book, reading, who we go teaching. Victoria Giantsiint intimidating, that up, pointing I've that opening OQueen to instructor And of to as thought going Birney, recall, them I was aspire was I and I well. that Life scary. like assignments book foriisuchli to early? discovered world N Rollvaagl s challenging, hard I and And used way thinking Ph.D., Birney's that. had teaching teachers person apparently a my of I'd English. encouraging, they that his reading that in out maybe working you Era. FuSERREITEngRERthe recall started that Improvement mission, influence models influential Canada the Angleman-- their had law, your people Sid as I at division under and although me and came Louis into to influential Dorothy job undergraduate, requirements--lower But a a was s Wit ing, congenial, writing very something I WILLIAM MULDER #3 responded to. So Louis Zucker's was three-quarter a moving onto lyric was me as that I was just gone sometime back, I took more of the example. was I also Virginia T or Louis's got English work like studied with him same at and asked had That was married, But when I and it did get Literature, and period for Durham, who the back department in included Virginia when who got for U., became years. as of phrase, sophomore Marsden way I thatl Elizabethan class the Parsons--who Bible class, Louis's time and the later Lecture, few back. survey the a epic, thought years promising for the He irecalll © mission, I some then quarter, eye-opener. and and which with third Reynolds ken a influential out the me. before in first starting the his on comprehensives. that Literature and bright from had World sophomore give about were wonderful to disappeared was a years thing introduce something I in drama, bright to when class the named Louis BECs those '32 or people '3, 1like Frobes. Yes: And Hector memories '31 to people Chronicle Lee, stand '33 who so it was an unusual out. So, briefly period in terms of the me, and I influenced because of my 50 high I've school gone class. back Such to University worked training on the and the under WILLIAM MULDER Buzz #3 Ashton. second year, Chronicle Earl that to get remember. good Do boy. I instructor in were others? there because I got I might back teaching from and Horst? Gretchen Horst I were going None they of were was there it it Snow were very department, taught and Cary there. I ever St of the one that Alpha, as be a I tried to be a very long. the only at who time toltthe was to female that picked does think a or '30s there up when Univérsity me that seem to at least that degree at researching finished stabilizing their was Elsie and-- It for it to back seem But out was with does occasion, three out wholgeces and cut department working on these stick the Kappa not the course the although mission but fixtures, believe, And in editor Pi certainly Elizabeth Gretchen they fraternity, confused my again, Rohrbaugh he's isure get days. and English for those year, Dorothy the "say in and Of was was if editor. who a didn't Chronicle recall, [laugh] recall Ecan't ECs into I the week I But pledge, you a first me for associate once Jr., fraternity EE: became Glade, tried reported was Chronicle I I classes, Elsie, thesis. degree, elements were that Columbia-- some their me highly in but the regular WILLIAM MULDER and dependable. Neff EC? who Okay. In was To were EC: #3 All head uh bonehead That was a the Yes, the from little day We same and of to at on to taking was one Dorius, who went back to and finally He in S. B. you then 19407 as a senior--given time, was on somewhere do us, some it not-- in Don work just that with! become a year at being name--oh, 'stayedi San think, graduate whose Harvard to I beyond other fact " he went of courses there year. chronology, that three And first was TA? going YIn it teach. senior. Eamily)erdid. our was--even only time, time University unusual were were on I the this department. the English there Walker. the through huh, some before of follow graduated '40, during Joel we (the usiifor Ethat teacher Francisco--San at Yale Francisco State. ECs Now feel Don got that his this teaching was your credentials. desire You to get never into did public school? I had you Era, never see, and thought this public combination Gweneth was of was under what then Youth Administration. of doing school things--TA, typing called, I Then there 52 teaching. for think, was I had, Improvement various people NYA--National also some NYA WILLIAM MULDER money #3 when Edwin a professor in or Zucker Clapp that needed way. This little Louis doing, piecing things and the so did at had I together, one English some got you that department in library a know, few of time--a like work hours all young that kinds of family to support. 1& Okay, and you graduated then Well, to' been ‘Ehink stimulated "graduate' Harvard, and somehow I anywhere else, frankly. I of application to American number of Studies. behalf, about in went No, to no. their Louis ten '40 that I car, and degree in like Louis my interrupt. or is but out. I English, got Now which be as a a a is EeSce 53 that's the Others to as History hold in a American wrote dollars go. for We on my from got a part-fellowship. this following following applying took hundred is the Harvard? This "*to applied known stake Zucker applied established behalf. people I have, program to I remember newly borrowing me this must got on recall different can't fairly wrote people stands Civilization and let a "schooel, " and universities, secondhand Now with by of admission E€: 1940 what? I'd one ECS in the B.A. following the Master's that B.A. you WILLIAM WM: I MULDER went have #3 to Harvard been the EE&? fall doing something doing TA and work. It must till '41. fall of during have Pearl It Harbor '40, Era and that. that a was--I that been remember of--wait '41. Improvement I semester, that must have '41 year. doing some Didn't because minute--must go in I guess graduate to that been Harvard very first happened. Yes. And I in the our remember yard, and shirts on recruiting it service the of Yes, of and not that Joel Dorius to to communication Well, to to us and put a to the Harvard and and cross-country and off students nearest would itself good keep many at do the programs University. school along other telling that adapt the the run government, come all Conant And could course with President station. everything did standing others. trek a in sister the of o0ld car Gweneth and with the twins-EC: Was it a '20 in the It was repetition old going sentimental of up, all got when you migrated [laugh] in again in Willeys-Knight? in reverse, fashion. emerging, we of just out At and the as we of the 54 mouth were. car must say, of Parley's about and to looked be out instead swallowed over the WILLIAM MULDER valley I #3 and sort remember billboard Union that. to crossing it a Pacific--travel with had a potty, them right they were sense the in front [laughter] We on Street Hurlbut recall people e;erything, green And 1is this as ease and was I the kids big [laugh] off asked from where at "Mass. Ave." as could when you found an were as ease. apartment Avenue. curiosity We go caught with Massachusetts with to billboard "Massachusetts" us like had picked--we potty--travel and big remember-- something that And a or we Cambridge 1looked said travel, and just we there boys, of to [laughter] and humor their got when everybody of twin doing farewell. Wyoming train We was, gave advertising the I EC: of Avenue because enunciating be. began to study under Schlesinger? No, I I didn't see. get to Schlesinger until my return-- Okay. --after the course in confuse that M.A. Oh, I philosophy took fundamental under period with what take course Demos. came things--a It's easy to later. Yes. Well, I seminar. social did Right, and a it cultural was that from Schlesinger--not broad history--what 55 survey he in his American described as WILLIAM MULDER pots and for me. #3 pans That overview social was EC: of fundamental about as teacher? I used go EFromiihimta yvyes, in and I of I was and I it. suggested [laugh] vibrate names that EC:s What so him I They reading recall the how tremendous was, and how intimidated Benny DeVoto? face to all they Oh called the that year president extremely courteous fuss-budgets assumed I felt. Did you that when go and very air seemed the you about you'd library around that== made that that course Wright, was just list him people. during he not a doing that was people history with that have take outstanding that were on. not ‘mysel£ It the about yes, you Benjamin and contact Not for They with sweeping So Did course man. Harvard a So opener non-political, view. did by reading history and I from considerate. they to a found assignments a Morrison? classes reading Smith. of AL N found' study constitutional point eye broad, from lectures. many took independent that history fact on another wonderful, Elliot hear TR was course. Samuel to dropping a intellectual What a was which American and a history there, and and how ever do the exciting have any him? face, but he 56 did come to--now let me see, WILLIAM I MULDER think it taking lit a you You class 1890, were see, an the of '42. my own to home whole graduate and the if getting same time, And I and to very and that including class. war I went commission. going on. when you So something a at Arlington job that year in back back in and were on a and war on, turned postpone the home yet salvaged there courses indeed should of funds, the thoughts summer terms these with here to do all Boston how could and be second learn through we while the 1limited right look 5 get settled into Reserve I year attended very might job broken to about our get something a I on maybe to was demanding and Naval But did stayed do, bit I was time? Harvard that something a I American the Technical so reading, what at Rindge a it intimidation do to semester lathe thinking wondering on of this wondering to was sense needing to it in authors this and classes Company, So all year, industry. Machinery many Harvard second engine war had when Jones 1lecture at a reduced operate he long went Harvard well. the I at Mumford and very was in semester. and that how tour Howard come it taking second from that because in my DeVoto remember So was since Benny KE #3 and by the staying East. applied several time like At for things that, a WILLIAM MULDER it all #3 seemed immediate clear. the chaotic problems Here was about taking a year possibility control of the certain at to see Harvard, America's family, so the being drafted military the into what meantime and so many future threatened entry wondering in your unpredictable, unable steps of over and and circumstances anxiety EBE: so to then the by war, to do, but ward off the having little future. Yes. The Naval Reserve turnediout< I& got finally did training at, Tucson, in communication Harvard interestingly enough But the working in Company, meantime having Technical where operate a at a about the the thought I a real one dean I'd night 1learned to out of of at better reduce 58 Eo school. didn't taking lunch geezer Steinbeck. that who the and 1like classes could learned way, and in the Yard. school and explain of the pail these I and know another number Rindge blueprints and the back at read world it training and old as Machinery a Harvard graduate then taking worker work-a-day foot bit through, Arlington and recall Qonderful character meantime see from that one blue-collar night been And at lathe between terminology. other I machine difference any had come I have a lot in the had to that courses I that WILLIAM MULDER I'd exam all required. was which Albert school. George Harvard Business and I of, director that he was trying for. It was at met very Stevens man, to who with was Brinton, roots. 59 I was also but another brother think personnel Consolidated to a getting 1like he patent we Smith notable there--a an pump a that Belmont in - people--people psychology 1in of who himself and home Hinckley Crane Utah Edison dedicating perfect kind mediate, as working the He Hinckley, Noble was there. and faith, was it interesting intellectual, historian the setting his who guess, could at the all a and we Sunday of came gracious, Mormon And professor friend who who for a was students about hearty Electric--a true the Hinckley, Fred and there--John family important of in intelligent very Jr., necessary teaching branch, Smith, did school. graduate intellectual home at seemed were hospitable, an as model that the all wife, his time School Utah, from kids the Mormon the in active were taken in there, GRE I'd credentials your getting that at things the language German the passed I'd enough. well done of understanding. great Again, work. graduate continued chance the up give to want didn't I but thing, stop-gap of sort a be would this that taking, was I #3 intellectual was a brother WILLIAM MULDER of #3 Levi Edgar stories her from John when among book the put during the and side Mulder. into And was her own Whipple and bed there. John's that told us and So some and pride he was about how board, all feeding Houghton- fact he belonging, and this novel. the and episodes our the and Brinton; Maureen gotten on gave a really, these little sense obviously of our pointing Utah-- is about had out, she was about work and time people, This to up [END E€: she came her connections to She acknowledgements, they'd back as fellowship the wife. Hinckley researches Mifflin own Young's two Today his the OF SIDE of is ONE our TAPE] second February experiences OF 16, at interview and Bill Harvard with is prior William telling to his us going service. all of these reinforcing our personal sense of being highly stimulated young people there was meeting and so fellow on. So confusing something stimulating, it and I at meetings belonging by the the seemed a on look fertilizing 60 on a period at of of course in classes, time, being my but Of mix--maybe the as Utah, gathering campus, at back connections branch. wonderful anxiety-ridden can back wonderful Mormon students and life I very but extremely and the WILLIAM MULDER life EC: of You #3 the family. indicated that you Did this mean immediate No. It took months, moments that for physical the garments. I around my looked up saying, get a I in recall one of blush about is those days, I that and I one saw that. "What the hell?" and the wrap Naval Reserve. service? and towel into and still loins got of I it just the hair-raising that in was very [laughter] garment officers distinctly He me. up temple the inspecting recall around wearing wrapped the lining told me Everybody his to go else in shorts. Yeah, So yeah. these bruise and experiences it some. years. thing to Also during I young doors to a this how a took year the people letter was Mormon that see inquiring it which from we kind foreign still the were of terminology do is time no service exam try to and 61 I and was I all wrote it a years would. the in they naval it foreign Boston. half open. Era. in the that for Improvement call. that applied that, but for idea going doing, spirit, about some I one the thought through--had took guess crush haven't Well, come service. came I don't I a dozen Well, then Richard Evans seemed to me that wrapped up in that to Brother Evans WILLIAM MULDER #3 ( saying, "I to back come graduate think I've and pick school Dbe application but if ." And you in for have a that's heard up the our call, lives and in interrupted. the Navy, place when at we et the bought in the like Salt Lake, let Tty e S ot s an cetera, Era we'd et the cetera, meantime-- property out in Millcreek. BES EC: Oh yes. About three house on about $50.00 Oh, if acres. it, At $5,000, a you but month had that or only time of a whole course we lot could with pay a only so. held those three acres, Bill. [laughter] I hope got I'm an FHA percent about I the for Evans fruit terms was, of I both and the felt directly out But sold then in the nothing application. that I'd with Hill 62 war Field do effort and I days 4} $500 down is the it contract to us. farm '43, may cow and produce and a happening I applied my for in guess something and as I kept was In better the we Yeah, those and carried who that on. Navy to Bank here. in that, interested so myself =right, people earlier was of 1like Zions the involved went That's took. mentioned Richard ahead something it remember getting 1loan. or all have I not it more wife jobs. and I WILLIAM MULDER got #3 into something personnel who another. pick In up leave go. the that's wanted those and is named Hugh Bennion think was this war The up come on, up in or three in the at five go and I I got was time I be how dropped a running off and pick them and have the for up the day I think up. energy that 63 to you A taken effort. was that proofread regular It got young on seemed up very sons--twin that the Thirteenth Hill it's here. having--wearing nursery here I and war Era and we our little who affairs. keeping recall and at the always morning six the man Era? was I to wonderful Lowell combination. and just Employee school to to reason Bennion of manuscripts a a military the job Counseling, "Hug" from with hats, or in into not good and with to counseling. removed at do one elsewhere. called come from darn called, we read it a to difficult contribution would that church-was then was had go very It position again to have arrangement but So to somewhat and your was was his Gweneth there. that as it go whom who Era--the would so job gave it cousin teacher So both You what and and was. counseling school had had it personnel--had move days, you what to You job a called Field only could when stand and I and hours to me two early boys Unitarian East, come and back you're young all that. of B Oh : WILLIAM I EC: MULDER #3 yes. look back Did on you it now, have and to I almost drive or quail was at it all. there public transportation? We EC: car pooled. Plymouth Coupe back--no that And all Right. Yeah, but to train was came And back that this were waiting for car came to wrapped up Cape Cod came line train our which we'd West. We stay at father's know in dreams, on or off the wife's with boys and Gweneth boys, tape, the and it that And as trip hopped place who the My little and Millcreek. call? train. then one Mother's way by the and up the staying with seen picked my don't never back been took little navy time. place affairs, on the that ahead mother's property I at on this with and back--who'd came my our on old a well, Okay. by while, bought later. comes boys mentioned, It was. that resolved Yes, it sold and raise guess comes during in time We'd the I that you all and by time we took I had the sister--now us We we that fell may have I wanted to chickens. you was told after about we this place not coop business got too and that out far then 64 experience. to away Millcreek and quickly got out that Dad spotted into the chicken again. So, where WILLIAM MULDER are EC: we in Okay, Era #3 the you're and go people training, intense a Arizona not what help they to care of at our on and a had we for a could find there because about six So came you Took in a back in your stay Harvard as the I So to family-65 was at Millcreek of same At that the We When to we school who time had I had they were so that they spent that consisted went ward time enough they an happen. someone the you there communication training with at to in the winter. family there [laugh] at recall. at amphibian going members long else. it, that were out girl. to So was to Holland something the go was From things, orchard. place Dutch place months took the the mission married looking and let to I training-- days. from rundown called basic children could assignment Harvard, been that the what the and school whatever. knowing getting we was various and get which on background. training to wife working through ninety my did came communications, Meanwhile the know, assigned period, take in naval you were of also indoctrination, of months, and finally was University Field sort for There three is it to Tucson. Hill Navy Well, assigned the at the Right. EC:s chronology? Harvard? summer only of summer WILLIAM EC: MULDER And you Yeah, were we From commissioned got the an ensign at this time. commission. Tucson. Right. RER #3 As a matter as ninety-day go in as of fact, wonders. you [laugh] boot-trainee. We know, But went in we we were known didn't have to still even a as-- Midshipmen---Midshipmen different the officers? program. We No, it weren't was even midshipmen. We got ceremony of commission-- Oh. --and went Basic training --basic sorts made EC: And into program training by it, the end then of then right. say I know from assigned after to getting went off to Port Hueneme officers. There the course three you you There they did of you know, as program. after communications All that-- months. didn't took If get Navy again a holding and wait and family Seattle. is near 66 school there the back I Oxnard, got in to in what? period. You service. But that further settled From the in await officially. training was Seattle hadn't your in up you it assigned communications which a were hurry the was I would be orders. So Millcreek, orders California, to go I to and-- WILLIAM EC: A MULDER #3 training Port for the Seabees. They were strong at Hueneme. --was that an place given was a Acorn naval My Liberty that charged deliver to that was with a a to carry the ware Navy carrying the units long ten-day sea a cargo to we arrived in that serve on manifest of Okinawa on a officer, a were the three that we would on Okinawa. took Hawaii guess airbase Marine We I would an document voyage stopover build person. when group. that going was the the unit to there and with Acorn going military And officer an was was of ship. to communications job shipment Seabee assignment group Okinawa. the the seventy and went So days past the Marianas. Were you in We were in convoy. convoy? in convoy It's lopksback together, the a like EC: but boat, announced a the Neptune I Hawaii. marvel ieniits Marianas mail from alill and that rising a there birth of and's recall Islands, From of our from the Yes. Amazing. 67 now, how s all of when a on loéistics little was Hawaii we were boat for daughter, sea with when this out. It me, and Barbara. a call were you icame standing came letter we off was it So, [laugh]. WILLTAM MULDER #3 EC: It really is, WM: That'sfreighit. "“That's BEC? And got so that you the contact was made. right. to Okinawa how 1long after the invasion? The island clearly we in could one This would Yeah. So quite late flares We that been I terms one way seventy-day journey the in just You a few did that the had you that's aircraft into the shooting into the about It was harbor, and in harbor fact while anywhere we without '44? got into of the we passed was active whole service, really sweep of the time on board that poker with the evenings officers' a navy true. to mess, play as contingent on There that contingent. thought I'd lost won down late the never heard then. it was war. I called-- aboard--the armed not? crew than moved moved to more we by us. probably guard, Yes, of and secure suits. see in As never have you less came flack captain or hands. plane and recall EC: see there. helmets more U.S. kamikaze were EC: was nine a lot dollars anything. So 68 was a ship also, Well, and of money. worth as I of was machine-gun so we anti- should somehow the I think don't add captain I cash on me and about to leave had I the WILLIAM MULDER ship #3 with some whatever the with plus me, fresh commissary my cabin and wished me fist full a money. You shore to telephone, which I ever moves. So combat from the routine a first the sat I there saw, outfit. and we assignment telephones rescue detached given people. duty. the communications the CIC center but somewhere In then of about from one radio fact, That's not contact I was the else. So 69 name In unit--numbers was on not that me the to CIC, what they it, at the was my hear daily was they called but I was whole assigned Yonabaru first at air-sea our were the where the us I another. with for if to outfit fact, of field chess--the place the the knew course to unit on asked I on field my waited center, assignment. which I a the playing and information at well, while got was south He gave arrival down tent I My was his occupation with said, his before and is to and touch who [laugh] moved safe and ashore up there oranges. I in So, communications had and me the Yonabaru the soap take "This in fellow for to called where get at of [laughter] to was ought said, tent try chess, we only My to a bars opened it." out grateful played he He need Meanwhile was bag, and yen. seek and I well of learned island. phone me and said duffel might was oranges to base, detached WILLIAM MULDER duty, #3 I the guess naval was get word in the were some these play by and not seeing unable how be distanced, the only our water canteens, cooling cooled So drink although agent off. on because So life the flying were usually that air of that proved very the tepid to perspire got who was and It was hot, and water be and quonset you down distanced. was And seeing-- going hut radar down. sometimes was the and because be in distress were would you our on flyers it and B-17s that and sandbagged to in episodes rescue unit, people visualizing that air-sea sweep doing, rescued. but the accounts were but to see representing the Okinawa agonizing they was wherever play in flyers It and and rescue from PBYs. could there used air-sea Philippines We called, were calls pinpointing down be an other trouble. screen was receive to to that It to between has PBYs operations. job it a in good then get huts and the The bomb was tents-And so how Well, until dropped That's In in were you January of a in Okinawa? '46, I guess. '45. right, August just long August '45. '45, and from there matter of time until 70 on, we units knew would that be it was called WILLIAM MULDER #3 home. We go Japan to board didn't for the felt the to our we any had night as to go And in I've what leave so or there January the The the was danger or were boat. I you meeting on that--we news raid much coming on felt the Tokyo the War always next, we recall on was there always '46, dwelt happen whatever, to through--I there tent assigned of the famous never would danger. all of coming after be famous and because although to urinate somewhere, EC: camp. real to that because uncertainty never to to the Missouri Doolittle experience going but dignitaries Jimmy coming was occupation, close And Major who battleship very in. know there was quonset might that be this anxiety. then sent was that if hunt at a sniper back to the States? Yes, on a were being slow converted the bunks were way home. I the message be reassigned, processed And And then then department four recall came in San you in like these merchant into troop ships, and tiers deep. But were being for at the we telex Lieutenant released whatever, the University I think on machine (j.g.) or vessels Mulder and we our when to were Francisco. returned the guess flood other to of GIs had departments 7 of hit. at Utah. The the English University WILLIAM MULDER were #3 desperate on as an between. think had happened. and I I was to or Oh a sure. I Harvard. So the their the could same M.A.s. relief family Millcreek all the you were degree, Harvard was being well, a away was I awhile, things home again, There were were very And frankly, instructorship- out I war. about there. 72 up had Don year the with proceed my M.A. hours from degree. That Walker took in terms youngsters the and you So again the and safe, tractor would semester enjoying to you exciting somehow bug in of Started took nine an little that me degree? Adamson and off go an that '47, home that lot there. master's of That things idea transfer June a for realized offered time Jack with but your year of I took English. the same Era future. positions with the by my who Neff something can't instructorship. toward At the suppose as Neff B. was to you Era freshman you I staff when year given progress the their of back say, the happy studies. the on classes was they maintain $2,400 go S. there there. see and but did As not very it I happy people four Was not did was -a ECs I I keen teachers, instructor, but other for work well, out irrigating, dreamt of about back to earning wanting to get in doing while back the to WILLIAM EC: MULDER Who was that #3 your time? Snow or Well, was I Civil Did you work taking remember War major, from but minor. at But was sort library, Of that time you Syveur the like the unusuall "Etopidic newspapers, Nordic and looked at t in the press, the U. at Dorothy Folland, intellect alive Hal so that with it on the I 73 did very and left off: and of very a fresh immilgrant Nordic My my Snow, my" language thesis became Language Press: Culture." Danish, and So I Dutch, Lee was an important a lot of work teacher a formal there, had Fof © Immigrant returning growth. I the Hector a history a Norwegian, was the seemed Nordic stimulating was pleasures journals. Folland. English still were " itermst "Utah's publications. the have are what of on ""made the history, course to T in Dorothy and and Swedish, and up work Instrument German influence was and Sol hands into to language, Aspect Hal old 1library getting work had Cliappy; and of course ‘M. A% picking background--getting and at under from--good Creer. Chapman, discovering bit Lee of of a courses many Angleman, and® here principally quite minoEWasipartiof it instructor whom? I too. principal and good GIs such year. and a The a with bright place sense of WILLIAM EGH MULDER Do you for Oh #3 happen your sure. It was hours. Yeah. Four don't know At twelve whether after that what your teaching load was hours. three-hour I was back American time, composition it came introductory BE: recall $2,400? Twelve been to you the from lit. next year, Harvard courses didn't compositilon M coursesiii courses. have that to I must have got some I do. readers, vou » # hadih Then toll so all deli alilis the s the corrections? Yes, EC: And it was your a lot you that university? I Harvard got good Perry an much '47. his Miller, when on I Kenneth some--again the graciofisness great and great true then greatness, that that of spirits, there these 74 is back kind people White in of did and people unassuming a with and humility not a with philosophy, these so to Had Worked Morton in to Schlesinger, Jones. Perry this return going on Murdock, Ralph realized Barton in a immigration. Mumford philosophy, minds for called American Howard and Harvard--did comfortable That's with at introduction more seminar course Yeah. experience automatic felt in into work. previous give Well, of have I in to WILLIAM MULDER strut, #3 were were and not were instruction. fact that may E€C: have No, I tell kindly, I I mentioned don't the tape. One of the but people trying to Indian language. group of up a archives course . from about From my him other was I at was He was interest and source sponsoring George I who in they this that. Harvard a in into think make folk him on don't Sven system, of interested got they providing were in prize written an I a the that record think widely folk Scandinavian I that a-- [END OF TAPE] 75 from where on a in He Mormon and in Bannock famous they used, Jr., it been the history. Smith, the had of you professor materials. Scandinavian Albert learned who Uppsala in mentioned ethnologist and heard visiting at lore I've we Liljeblad, ethnologists perfected knew kindly, Scandinavia we Scandinavia. Idaho they earlier. think it, how to that always recall went about from officious, had setting I took a learned culture. from Swedish-American one Line THIS IS TAPE NUMBER TWO OF OUR SECOND INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM MULDER, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF ENGLISH, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH, AND WE'RE RECORDING IN THE ECCLES ROOM OF THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY AND THIS IS PART OF THE [EVERETT] COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM. [THE DATE IS FEBRUARY 16, 1988. EVERETT L. COOLEY IS THE INTERVIEWER. TAPE #4.] EC: Bill, we've been after you had University there at That's had of job had as as a I by way time to we moved held shrewd of place mortgage. way let it and but Just he Yale Avenue. prior that was going the if your I work in known he'd sunny his been the I'll about to 76 was he home to and we sort time. you to do time Dr. Neff quiet lay that and thing that ready to and wouldn't which on that Harvard at was of existence, wonderfully able have there for mortgage small time going rural it that then School the was Avenue by Millcreek I think wife the career, that He certainly to Think Yale Nice Again was of on carried there. that in My dean academic be aside be Harvard degree, and the left town. people--that to 1947 alone. that an into a to see young was to Master's is back recall. luxuriate got the went on--we'd anything we I house could that return your this secretary I and EC: Now, because be and your Harvard. Engineering we about obtained Utah, right. a talking to but help something place. were out tickled chronology Let's said That see. you went WILLIAM MULDER alone with Jess Jennings. deal toward of time EC: course was She under good a in skills. her very typist, of, sure not I'm campus of variety that by yes. Oh picked up the month) so that Liljeblad Sven learned to do The professor this contest, and projecting a numbers the huge of your with pioneers Swedish large of (per visiting something theme maintenance a was about Bill the America. In centennial Swedes /7 to from said, the of Uppsala. "You ought materials." Scandinavian was contest to he right. All difference. the all made $90.00 plus tuition GI The difference. the all made this Well, I Maybe Bentley. Bill. GI the had we the agreed--well, was it expense of because but these, of order precise the and jobs a So mind. good a had and efficient of excellent an was She shorthand. knew She dean through maintenance family the putting always was Gweneth one Anthropology of Department the in secretary at Extension. in up later deal but Hal for worked She this, to secretary was she good a was of and things, of variety a chronology the School. Engineering here. doing was She another or that staying remember can't time Gweneth right. That's I #4 of contributions 1948 the United were they migration States. And in I WILLIAM MULDER said just "Yeah, He #4 toward but said, afford the all term you he and and And it Union I math I spent got it summer a I in for the of '48 it tree in the pretty good those home off at into the orchard 78 I went and in about in wrote Salt nearly Lake, a So background of to an in him. papers. that out Ola about back And was Church researches, digging be, or 1living more I from inquiries family would the still some deadline. days. got some and you I had material out those living I pulled $75.00 my he get son probably enough in for go," for some learned a in were made can't whenever train we encountered was back before guess and a stopped Liljenquist. with by Station Christmas and lot Utah." ready must home a country get "You me of time--and who that pay Even there and on in really and TGt heck "I wallet go lot. Liljenquist Nilsson primed "You there here his can a a I'd that stay into semester--'47, said, Christmas." the that teacher Ola in at learned to office--I that Nilsson go." you Pacific person T wasn't Historian's of said, whatever--seemed a must said, crossed Millcreek back reached fellowship, the are after He I materials exams materials." think first planned bills, can." end I'd and some the my "“Sa to. said, the Harvard essay and summer, the Millcreek fell out of up it WILLIAM MULDER when New a #4 Gweneth York. Long rarity. agent I for Line came and distance wondered public wondering I was [laughter] poor Gweneth and weeks armed with into various newspaper recall clear Ye So what of sense of the the proselyting Did it of you tour to Yes. The the and was a went prize by July again, about a and had this got I was Utah, and a Lake out page be here So with that the [chuckle] from Lake this gave first-hand Royal me Salt Scandinavia some the letter through of at showed a in material. Tabernacle. to me Mormons of was six that the lot to leaving in quite the trip originated Tabernacle. there, it have seen response such where passed he'd were libraries Salt who days and think turned traveler described terms the from Liljeblad Copenhagen--where And drawing I call Swedish-American on behind harvested of go whatever letter--I outline gods! I and to a Well, the from might accounts, in Swedish family letters that one Library the of off is those devil. free So there in the institutes Scandinavia. I calls relations if letters said what Scandinavia. after EC: out a and 1little me a to Mormon materials good in letters. actually win Scandinavia awards for the was the 79 prize one of essay on the the essay results contest and of were this it? for two WILLIAM MULDER adults #4 and students. school, six and were the line all put to the I us I went where I they letters to their girl carry home for them. So back teaching more in the more course a at a U. year at summer, work, with I summer completed course work--the was then, of prelims while forever reading school teaching and I to at of places, in the So and U. left they I had Harvard in It may have work, then be gone right. Harvard to have tokens at him I work. prepare reading some weekly then, course and do in individual to by So to took reported was to couldn't I tour couple I or That's of missionaries course required reading 80 of courses. course, of school. when I a when back time. that's took left then Miller. on friends back guests planned the that There Gripsholm, delighted because went and Perry so year a school graduate were number summer steady the we back, recall spécial for than '49, reading '49, the nicely a were had in stayed went I of I in home. was on very that high undergraduate. over Then two I because from summer an this recall and '47-'48 and given cities up, as who and adults. count countries. been for the treated were longer. chief students of then royally and me one didn't of somebody all college was three weeks the I so were of two I for just and had What the took can't WILLIAM MULDER recall #4 the but a By this exact full year year time when I did take the prelims, later. you had to choose a major professor? Yes. And that That was-- was Schlesinger encouraged me to Schlesinger's over, and American John and Goss, went to do Oh, the I orals. That's took of chapters finally got the big on the when into the hurdle. yes. And they And at were oral at Harvard, not were Miller, and Oscar a Handlin, visiting Kenneth professor represented American you I civilization, took American religious then Scandinavian "that ‘was' submitting "Think of the the it as to 1literature, American the had and B. in Nebraska--Wertenbaker So written. Berkeley. Present Sol member read had but Handlin a faculty, he research, Oscar was Europe--when because the then who program dissertation. Oh on history retirement, civ Handlin go in Murdock, philosophy that have @ big field. four American philosophical history, the Perry 1In fields. history, history, related from and subject. @ hurdle, and synopsis to Oscar Handlin who said, a But it almost five years book." 81 was after . that, WILLIAM MULDER before I which E become Twelve had I tried. were with you of you the finishing book, you again, hours to the ‘taught.' once Now, around because Wellig or got did That's And #4 Homeward to had that return twelve to to dissertation Zion. Utah hours and of teach? teaching? teaching. still degree an instructor almost in when you returned hand did they give in hand, I was when I you a promotion? Right. With the assistant I'd been Historical Review, Scandinavia, A Koontz for Award Oh yes. I recall Avenue, was so chapter Chicago. the in the I and By the Church published that then we to History a paper English appeared 82 in Pacific from which He'd won the to the been Conference were corner able the published. delight. be Century was Association around to it an got "Mormons Migration" year Creer's pleased Seventeenth Murdock the given articles. published news. just 1955 publishing Historical with By Shepherded Lee Pacific back almost professorship. degree, BEE: degree living from bear the that Magazine, out of my Religious the Harvard and on came Second Creers. news He and a published in seminar in Prose with Theological WILLIAM MULDER #4 Review. So Quarterly All of things did were something this, the and when Frederick Handlin have but were been one on discovered migration elements were over, recall then is I hand, of had the submit he took it. defense. it me that I went scared some to any was of the the my been one I'd left it Gweneth and had massive an I 83 went the When of the He this the it was I can fire." topic Well, Dean historian, encouraged readers. the me Press, summer just to and Anyway, California By well Minnesota, Mifinesota Berkeley to Mormon All a me I'd what immigration articles. with of some what dissertation. University of of must let and "house I Oscar had just distinction. a it, remember, He topic like University have can't they ¥so there distinctive. and and migration, with been defend think I that more. a School of I comparisons made just to history. general I'd Murdock moment to passed Graduate it may the Blegen read led making it back essentially what Eyes." dissertation; went Western they and Theodore the knew that wasn't research committee. but with I Historical Immigrant the Kenneth At Merk and of and more. about "Through done, that gquestions, rattle in was on Utah ¥Einilished W the Merk Frederick good all it on result doingiiibutiS'diinot finally appearing. they of the for a WILLIAM MULDER #4 vacation trip. read apparently, but it time--didn't to it, take something I at that under that. Foundation otherwise designed. EC: EC: E@: happy was the first grant. not was award one that else the book Still in paperback, Well, Homeward to I was thinking Among the Mormons Yes, So I thought Homeward meantime, Among I really had work a of clean getting the to all it always did that handsomely that got a told friends design award. go into in '57, paperback. was-- did, came and I Russ with so that the out and with it done. His on came all editor on. 84 too. embarked Mormons, and of was that not? other left draft to publishing books never Zion the dealing Ford grants fifty got was The of the it I published time, It I've great and they'd that a or did. Mortensen called book it, want list had done. it that have They not their been so is did which number has, Zion they scholarly of year, whatever Oh, have Berkeley. fit to a facilitate could that At made to at Minnesota, was had It thesis felt But Ford universities the list, it their design that like Scandinavian told 1left office Because this out the at and Knopf, in '58, and and a the the anthology in nuts was in and bolts getting godsend to meantime, WILLIAM MULDER #4 I'd gone off the meantime, to even dissertation, that I came about had known Hal the summer come out "Why don't an instructor the places generation year that degree I I me Clapp saying something appear in the all it and I for was' like 85 for dean of Gohdes to you a bit as just it was professorship. and that the next got our the in that at Utah. I recall writing that on and But stay a as and Duke. At went interested tol to because Colorado at for said, see, later very that. who introduction But glad' publications. and identity me phenomenon Duke, and time publishing NesSPTRVEesS us dissertation assistant a me there was the Duke to was, 1little think something national for in with as Princeton, the Mulder's of shine teach a appointment given Hal, stimulating finish They'd was a Also from Clarence instructors. Gohdes or and got teut,"vand hands Columbia. took at Gohdes instructors didn'Elwerk both year invited a young an one Michigan, did and promoting EC: was we of teach composition young So finished that's do 1like had at out And Fulbright. I had come It first Clarence Gohdes to literature. whatnot. to through you instructor?" to was Utah. my before school, to of on Bentley an number India with time, it faculty to WILLIAM WM: MULDER And I #4 was just paper I Frost was so wasn't just in British it had lucky things getting done done as the I serious by the Mormon have and and subject as about and you could had--oh, Jones was doing. of papers in ever what you're doing might how as With the I was things students seriously Robert literature, out I had courses at since, be for these you're 1learning involved with well think a OQuarterly, my is and on Atlantic I term this becoming South I I Mumford American told because topic topics mileage enough exercises the Howard chore-work, Harvard. write for accepted all with to your in terms of Harvard in '55. like five publication. ECs Now, you awarded Did this result No, no, because years EC: were And between when program Yeah, in here that Were you Yes. G. on was the had assistant returned, the his Hinckley saw institutes from promotion to be and here? something associate. 1is this establishment of the when you became American studies campus? around first Homer degree immediate there an you involved in the '55, head Durham of had Institute as the of I it? been very successful Government, proper 86 guess. mechanism and, for I with think, getting WILLIAM MULDER certain interdepartmental would of mean the think we #4 a Homer had for told to three years got later we lectures by a Spencer Let's see you and What Don and number of English desired. curriculum Press American we provisions. that we were three For and some young Jane Tompkins and Don Photographed All the book of I about out the think, Studies held Lee I the studies. and faculty them of Grand quarterly Series, outstanding literature, in Don I the American in, evening involved of course, Studies Program, there Walker? did was to achieve courses that people could take under We suggested--well, to NDEA and son, series of Institute So Hall. now, were U a number and Orson book of the Mary eyes institutes--I American the started called history U the three, Like the it organizations. Studies Creer's did the lectures in Lee such in three, one. Scenery, in in and Wisconsin fellowships got And at because probably under Elder we who Canyon. faith American people. philosophy Best Joe get wonderful Fowler the going, Centers fellowships by first or great established was budget, administration. applied EE: line-item programs be followed 87 by in cross-listing history, whichever we drew those of a philosophy, heading up wanting a they kind to get of a WILLIAM MULDER degree #4 in history American Ph.D. studies had a the way We indicated at to the nine American think organize have an 1lit., we of nine of hours There historical American art course in American philosophy. for nine, a was We it an that important persuaded and may along with the would teach to be was be under distinctly new been a of called a "Main three-quarter any He people in Phil was creation, an addition a good and Sturges in on in the charge in of philosophy, still, course three, up nine sold and so which to which in sequence, the a studies Currents of be plus made history new a made nine Read in be should then one 88 should It I course American part. hours then three pursued. Creer a There times Waldemer creation Thought," listed the philosophy, have history, Those of philosophy- and for we all of whatever. program and of There minor emphasis. Nine three or pattern was history and course the history idea. that's dissertation integrated this so lit. be the that philosophy. history. an again, on hours geography. in with studies should course another seized American hours nine English days, American level, nine or those So hours combinations. American In minor. graduate —couldn't of philosophy minor. formal as this or go Don American it that could was formed a the WILLIAM MULDER heart of #4 of the course, the American strong then, topic that was within And any department. have been Candadai Western and thereafter study on mind, both "Gandhi EC: got which yes, the there now, India? have studies you Did perspective Exactly, impact of I American inquiry American Well, in spoke you which been about who Gandhi in on did the which an But a fine American he called historical during in and Bombay. products those Fulbright to a fellowships published want women came on outstanding deliberately and business, Scene," a topic graduates research was that particularly. popular, emphasis Now men India, and tailor-made Lambert-- young him intellectuals and of that conventional Neal university the a outstanding from in disciplines. literature, kept Gandhi, intellectual that cadre weren't moved out then, topics-- studies work the some Seshachari Fulbright to Peterson, fine in women's from And dissertation different given a interested So on work. Tompkins possible program--Levi Exactly, of Mary different there that was drew quite course literature, but It studies flexibility western direction. EC: American to from years. India. broaden Why your here. knew very little 89 about India or any other WILLIAM MULDER #4 country except competition and the days Miller or except if I'd deliberately the United India, and Africa, and applifed ECs Africa. I've was No, no. he became the It it days ot of '56, school in-- his return was in the across the his desk. I were together. 90 or or Perry in have the dream come but I listed iB dean in quite from Japan, country when I in first wasthESEerl ing of was--I the don't then think Washington he that Scfiool. College, I had office and I from war, pipe which University university Gweneth things Graduate the the different think, as it a Leiden, HLS6RIARNdE graduate the was very in posts would I guess of those forgotten the keen is Brooks think I office--scholarships and I College, coming Natalie so who dean after culture in after right that him, was This or that extremely names. Dutch Wor S maybelii55, S in those a And was notices of States. University think knew Groningen thought bless I I knew was manning maybe gotten McMurrin, big I Cleanth Gohdes that this to 1like universities. me, posts seminar, people Clarence European handy going Salzburg got countries. Europeans were the you for for posts of and European don't a and think special whatever. that friends. We shared in Fulbright Sterling good these We so and did a many WILLIAM MULDER #4 intellectual type. interests We'd go Conference have to on a informality Sterling who This is tape with William Fulbright So it the SIDE two, side the those days, both a kind all such of off a model, with such the our second interview talking about called my attention to of Department. But American of his the and they had agency. Sl have for They all a of money under Affairs some the then of agency on the Foreign But committee academics on called under body. recruiting to was CIES--Committee «citizen Education had It Board government these Committee Scholars, Councils Association an became a in the Scholars. it 1is was Cultural board, of paperwork It 1is of now Exchange Research of would we're then which government. Science who supervision Associated the two Exchange Scholarships Bureau I OF TAPE] conference International handled ONE and Sterling general it Utah India. from in Certainly and carry Mormon together, being stimulus OF International CIEP maverick meetings with could Mulder to was papers of and-- [END BC: sort Education. intellectual person a Academy Higher credit wonderful and to as the which for CU, the the State just Advancement annually, the as of in WILLIAM MULDER #4 anticipation of wonderful opportunity. experience in was quite was with his Japan background, in terms of time same Marshall, fiés the Reynolds EC: L. He was time Spencer Hall approach E€: you Reynolds the was like You must ask a bolt have from been has you whether Lecture the one 92 next in have must long- Association, me on committee "My and person--Professor Reynolds the day--this one mail, the in the at But my mean. called He said 'S6--and give of president president. on medicine. in Marshall H. the write to and Lecture I who know So from papers. of mill, the in that Marshall--you batch this submitted I behalf. do to education. ready was and certainly encouragement Sterling and administration, envoy, desire a and international of lot a was there the Olpin oriented. internationally something special a as then by Iran a had had he think I in seemed it going, institute little successful hand, a on go Degree Great." "Yeah. by Sterling to like you "How'd said, I and Fulbright," country literature. their said, offhandedly quite deadlines, out send would country, certain fall of me to willing to the been authorized would year." at office my be And my, that blue. of the youngest ever to give WILLIAM MULDER that I lecture. suppose, and out yet. Among giving some wasn't been I'd started the might Tuesday —--Spencer Hall involved in been--Homeward to Zion Lecture Series in days those in Durham lectures. but yet, out wasn't Mormons the the old-- Great forums? the Remember got I those. philosophy's of department the of one gave I yes. Yes, suppose out, I I'm sure whoever else looking for of some promise controversial, and then Reynolds he a doing "You're said, 1lot interesting but gave I should what but was lectureship controversial--that little his me talk of work the Right. Not sense Then "Well, we're the whole And recognize to that's "Well, Marshall maybe important, on Mormons," the the how about intended of or Angleman about?" lecture indeed in is said, I achievement. and say, was Lectureship Reynolds Sid faculty." young promising the idea would board the on was or Sterling like people coming were attention. people's catching were articles whatever plus bit by bit, wonderful, EC: have Auditorium. forum. Issues So it yes. Yes, EC: #4 to be a being-- Stimulating. Yeah, stimulating. 93 radical, but that they WILLIAM MULDER #4 wanted think to layman I the came up History." material lot pieces something specially with the 1I'd been for of and and idea of Among the tap, dissertation. So although in there had been in the Historical It struck that there me piece that had not them in you or people, to my don't know ask that's them precisely activating and he if this not, word That's I've what through what I'd got an said--maybe you what can I application 94 how I in I said, for worked of '56. the India. Are was I'd in, next so said and me--well, I you year, and you mind year?" And "Would next on from committed. the pull before. saying advised had to Christmas opening apply did. way application that perspective come really this a that was my OQuarterly. had I a Pacific maybe with recall "There's heart, Marshall, up I the here quite on that Political in had writing and enough I appeared articles Mormons and right interested?" close the so had actual down, was gathering working that History treated it of Western context, believe Fulbright can been manuscript And to on been So American Russ, of lot Church in obviously, had appeal culture. "Mormons none a would local with I set and a that was Review together Put and done--ideas appeared the Mormons on form, the working stuff book to that WILLIAM MULDER that's #4 what American India Is to had that give I I would have on American lectures gone in been the first literature in '56. right? Instead of '57. As it was, scholar who was put on a USIS circuit and lectures. More or consecutive, give but a series not a of full American course. history, to--well, importance of thing a was U.S. of Americans American background--American you were not assigned of and had to studies was to the the Fulbright were U.S. They to India, literature, a They the seemed in India to go him interest exchange. scholars to visiting awakening genuine of course. lot ties, number of a less a was Indo-American matter took 1literature. Indian fields Now, was of a right There numbers needed they American awakening sending EC: happened. in all exactly the history. specific locale or university. Yes. EC? Oh. Unless you're Fulbrights operate, connection. desire Delhi traveling In be known that it is fact to was about to the the 95 the provide USIS, an institution U.S. ready for to the institutional would 1let Educational Foundation introduce course a way at its in the WILLTAM MULDER M.A. #4 1level history. would Can send papers American you find us papers to the to the eventually local in at an Fulbrighter's EC: professor. It But same give the Well, academics the and to And time then were the arrive was to the after the up look whatever him send They'd it as University you Washington would housing, set American so Delhi provide Osmania way held, and facilities the in visiting Hyderabad. expected whom friendship took wherever South because me they India and invitation American it happened Teachers That to go later I of were, put and some the what I come in USIS was I got got to Then out the three It Foundation 96 that and held at lot of very well U.S. of and India led Americans that took I summer did led-a 1962 what India so that in as and Information circuit, months in was year know North, was very a on in Indian meet presence them the to the the people Specialist. Educational that doing--that for that Conference way advantage of to conferences continues. and one of English University. Service U.S. to And question. provide family by scholars this an to was All-India Osmania to in or lectures? Yes. the Delhi. agreement. necessary at someone? university university were literature shine to they an call that organized the a WILLIAM MULDER three #4 week where seminar thirty Indian Roy scholar, Logan roped in because on I said, a scholars to a the scholars boon those coming where could but they that a was conference where a completed. In Foundation had thing on the for the year after provided 9 a and a I corresponding a place research. didn't U.S. their years. was in wonderful substantial the Indian reading was of the center, having there that Indian a mean which was they of where organization meantime, and the and couple I weeks out of research a me. conference." part would in black three center their next and a Foundation knowing over and establish back paper the the Robert winner because, to It continue mulled with many from specialist, out their abroad, as was, USIS library matter. year history-- organized Service continue Fulbright and Rutgers, Educational subject for Mussoorie, Prize name a lucky strong could American as U.S. a his petition Information essentially from Mulder very came in lectures already start was conference hear Pulitzer think coming "Let's that to that was up 1literature Fisher I station professors--from Nichols, William was of gathered history, So hill teachers, Spiller, U.S. a teachers universities And at There attend, actually Educational secretary who WILLIAM MULDER kept in #4 touch snowballed. with They correspondence next year then Osmania we wing won't for center whom I a that long had I to can Aurangabad, went ECS Three And with was the had involved time, clear to make it come ook after my family the And so the the next they India, at over a ‘things. and back a a would and they be it, but the could I had said their Fulbrighter neighboring of times Then in '65," for would was couple stayed India, That guess, So got in I here, year. and if what I your was director. with, and That asking as it establish 1957, that in fill Foundation Center vice- One taught. wrote and building. space. at '64 to the and can't want Center in to We this alert Educational the manage already Sertrof I way inauguration was to '64. I in come my think U.S. the extremely library it again where you I together on forward, vacant. provide carry conference, new If to and similar was a where known been see people came time. the money another is we'll Intercultural not bring completed of participants, seed "Doraiswarni", of willing have at university director these some University here, very of to '63 just whole got and in chancellor, said all three a who town, week in“June, and T years. years. that was the most 98 fruitful period in terms of WILLIAM MULDER #4 developing a program and establishing a center and a collection. And I you was were the first the director director. tentative year Everything at first Foundation as pretty have a number example). But directors which come much here. degree Hyderabad We fellowship journal, and was made he was at a would wherever wall or we went, big, Delhi, or Madras. We'd behind out, the wife by we'd large then, go to outfits Higginbotham's, search counters, hundreds of the look books on getting he is, almost big a and so shelves; to and in the outlet crannies. out me Stationery book a going, accompany the the every Lk wouldige Oxford and lived developed like relevant 99 committee. bookstores--holes nooks of chair, conferences, and my as newsletter That for board and and enandtarsllotieofipubliicizing. Helen, a after center seminars, (they English, got then the action. programs executive by that Educational chancellor constantly of the treasurer, got after holding budget, India and a teaching an He series budget their vice in program a own 1local conferred of for back so own through one our convenient his day. had got was our time? essentially we Seshachari in of programs a that got of with was We at We'd in in get we ferreted American studies. WILLIAM MULDER Some of was a #4 them from great found found had a in five or whatever, readiness EE: Now, was This Soft of the Now you funded But were all Great not with informal or have faculty, gathering from the these Britain. might met that history center, and of or its serve. that by the were to university behind money available central in the Indian government costs--light was in terms of United university these currency. as contributed provided whatever, but ninety the were the States and of or you? terms the undertaking, support EC: small about PL480. United a We them American national we informing money there that English funds was volumes from this American with States. but for ties just view, India, faculty to of close United with six of point because these lot the sometimes British advantage generations We the soft a space, rent. so result it and That was percent currency a is, bi- of the from the but did States. the center also have was to serve American Indian students students, who were studying there? No, we did Indian registers not give system with is a degrees. such that particular 100 We were a a resource. Ph.D. university The candidate and gets a WILLIAM MULDER #4 supervising presents for committee, the that in. We of we held latched Information American on sixty One every hour of we had on some they'd go off literature methodology and two the show, lectures transport city, would in and do or and so had 101 started subjects. an trends, 1lots of methods, lectures had For two I it was came to feed and of all these people, our public house institutions of the running to facilities on Americans but various their things whatever. always Then and substantive in overview bibliographical part from together history a brought civilization. 1learned we U.S. their we give when no we meeting my with the related scholars. care scholars thirty Indian whatever, we a and wunder month and their as did take one and facility that then American faculty I seminars in scholar eras, arrangements because be They outstanding the together, topic course and For visiting figures, the American and history well were bring resources, as particular intensive day research scholars program, sections. 1library make might from a lecture to visiting scholars thirty about bring did program. literature, which which Agency Indian we plus to intensive So the research Specialist summer does dissertation. kind conferences then and we had in the own. One WILLIAM MULDER #4 year it was the Administrative year it was the Central year it was campus a new itself. David Brion Harvard we'd Davis from connections. Ph.D. in American summer--the way Institute hostelry But Staff of that get English. Another come people on whom were studies Another had Cornell, We College. and Tom O'Dea came. look first hand the I'd both up on order met of through working who'd the come on the West one ¥es. Just And to have a eventually Then wrote from Duke wrote about and about it. so on, at this culture. it. Louis each Budd, year the there Twain were scholar outstanding figures. EE: Jack Adamson went. Jack Adamson did the center. Delhi He not went University Osmania. I was in because which would Milton Tercentenary American somebody who my be same knows I a can S AL, SRE Do Milton and get you R to Fulbrighter to gone to for '57 next we're a in getting said guess, can scholar had Delhi I we but 102 visiting as way at '68-'69, ST a responsible friends but as '68-'69 the studies, KRoWwSERM-EiEon in directly there in come year, having Fulbrighter find TS us somebody S s ali di Melville." So him a only who YT S know, I sounded WILLIAM MULDER out he #4 Jack. was and We'd pretty eager to Washington to selection had a out stop his academic and do something. the but that process requesting Washington cooperating, course did Fulbrighter this of the and we So This said anyway, we was this Delhi to into University is I wrote well Delhi that then But vice-presidency because and university of presses. person, through some. of process, hand-picked then corresponding tired get the want, EC: been the man we described--the requesting got Jack that magnificent job, and year. was and And voted he the year. Oh. We left so we Now June just that That And in was then '57-'58. of missed was '68 each about my third you Jack arrived in September other. your fourth visit to India. '65 '68. That visit. went Then and to-- '62. Then to was my third visit. And Yes. to then you With come went the as a three center well consultant January through had the opportunity the center. My more times. established, in '74, March--wonderful one to big 103 organize charge spent I three time of special was was to invited months-- year, seminars organize and at a WILLIAM MULDER seminar Hope #4 on the Franklin the and promote Then the other finally of the India the center the the the The January. Christmas, the year got I English at friends political the to a was able to again, And and We science, participants, but 104 a on gave the money for had so their met back to which ever a the mid- that over equivalent was so social Kirkpatrick of to part about Hyderabad number acres been deeded early India five January, I result and the It was tremendous and as U.S. up '79, because government put Jane of here Association--the seminar. many India. January The in there a in building Conference then had and attend Language Teachers studies finals bit so on and center. was had place, building property went I about acquaintances, the own the I Jaipur. dedication. and moved John could '78 own Got I funding. our gave MLA--Modern India its dedication But the government university center. over of together state time after got I this American right We and renew of American the all special got building. which By December to governments of in bicentennial land, again. work experience. scholars center, briefly, went American colleagues strengthen of and sub-continent friends I black of big All- held that many old for the science, was American one and WILLIAM MULDER Indian #4 scholars. there was talk director. This directors were and so the man ought Roach, the is cultural and go." go. The we all Been some pretty bad have somebody thought coming to back says June, you we slated to arrange head of hard better for think to to all summer with means we'd to So, 105 to the get A studies in not been very had made and "We've got to place." And we but in Aprii Sat could that we've before in talked who going, for terms and I'd cancel Council, possible ali mid-April to i consider arrangements. travel it Embassy. must go, had been "You you I P. said, between Norman done had this maybe school. make who Everybody go." make Texas saying); » “WEstSit that department, than going and James said, run So back, was year They Washington, leave the was go gone had that can Hyderabad? teach a just to and time former ourselves. American on next the American to him who Roach ought had committed blunders. you to the and the All ought have that be among from to there from Do so should at here Jim gotaNcalil™ possible? and dedicated '79. kidded egged director was would of scientist man successful. all So thought a who We counselor hand, India, of there. I building January political veteran the then to that a So been that, was and us of then bargain to do 1living WILLIAM MULDER #4 arrangements enough and money your They we three. And so then And I I is Wwe'd a third to at are is a ailing be in and but nine illness. that time some point of car and and for time? two years. We every or a In third a member another. 106 you college, advantage to of think during came major it home of her knew family 1I'd me on. it's so For the work. Jim Roach such Helen's three-year turned mother's was has. decisions about. it of If kept interruption. the year more. that as Council final have individual, because was and for But fact, she Institutional would lot Was '79. ask one the had '82, that this was [laugh] here. "The they For we to letter. school, that months, So and staff least been. India. in parents. period--'79 for year. time, bachelor. easy, at Couldn't complicated--kids He house period been authorize that sEill" individual, set have still [chuckle] retired a stay Must have for leave." a household Fletcher's then? would pleased for could Jim Fletcher asked got you-- recall He we good appointment stayed Yes. a So travel. hoped Jim on. for international Was so But with out, grave during us at WILLITAM MULDER #4 EC: We're just WM: I EC: Maybe when we what it's 1like think about we've students About EC: Yes, so just about All come a of good tape. breaking let's in tell a India point. little and bit some about of the with. here, talk out of good 1living came let's a out return, dozen right, run to you worked WM: WM: a to yes. about that tape. time [END to close. OF TAPE] 107 next time, but we're TODAY IS TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 1988 AND THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF OUR INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM MULDER, EMERITUS PROFESSOR OF ENGLISH. THIS IS INTERVIEW THREE AND TAPE ONE. [THE INTERVIEWER IS EVERETT L. COOLEY. THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT OF THE SERIES.] EC: We concluded about of COOLEY our last establishing your many neglected a talk there and what their outlook in interview research India what was life Some of these You have for et a like for things India and But one thing some of moving cetera, your I in been period of think your on your as a years family we #5 talking was of TAPE your center spoke 1life, with Bill, influences on PROJECT. duties. about, experiences. living HISTORY administrative to personal ORAL we the family family, result and living would all of exactly in like India? to talk about. WM: Well, that's very large a big part of imagination. mentioned first took wife daughter, daughter and My and the in difficult really monthly very rupee subject, both our first place our sons grade year meager. Ev, India actual 1957, three just '58. children, out of was That because Fulbright stipend had to 108 to pay save as I I went twin high school. We occupied activities Fulbright, in has a and may sons a our have with and my a school and rather spartan compensation enough for travel. out of Congress the was our in WILLIAM MULDER those #5 days exchange. at They that wife. and they we as roomy plowed and we from things, so into the town common item chapaties, every family adapted household by We thirty the thin and made renting staff. It conditionshof marketing), yourself. simply You have 109 us in India. with a We over a near of to various other with that in cakes was be to try have to do the all we could a Swiss not in So we given of Indian a made engage impossible, got because unleavened. had We was India would We the neighborhood Bread ago simply plant, there fresh, to' so not banana a bread. wheat yard row crossroads. that years the experience bicycles got had professor, lived kind nice stucco, professor's furniture. is the neighbor hands-on we for that--tried recall where travel especially brought of I and Gweneth so-called myself town. in A Corners--a and pure about compound. things. done. be there--one-story that kind pay moving recall a scholarly to provided a planted were children bakery very We Tarnaka cycle with on that way/things the in university, tree. even called I were the banana called are about motivation Hydenabad planting because far in structures enjoyed the limited they up stingy didn't were university bungalow rather wanted time So The was this staff. a the by WILLIAM MULDER EC: There WM: Not #5 was no in local our sense. Secunderabad, city of to engage and was exotic name. about Now would they We encouraged You we British had They no extremely attire prepare the with to Swami so The that We the meant a little his bare menus his duck joke feet. or-- style But dinners Swami British Oomiah, the also kind was with making who would communicator 11l white had cooking. language? who peddlers and an provided jacket--a had knew was pants, widely. English--both important it. Indian he able serving which style sample were a the thought always by did white make with helping the we Indian to bearer, in a to two straight. on and officers, enough housekeeper dealing and problem knew Swami, feet, wanted we occasions, put them these and twin than We uniforms--white he'd formal and in the divided tank. food and formal bare this served ECS for to were a Ramrod duck dinner, because Swami, merchant closer cities the it? Secunderabad bearer, preparing white and a know goan were called [chuckle] and serving and we a as two water called with jacket known of as was We The cook bearer shirts, EC: body a shopping, them D'Souza's. itself. large store There Hyderabad Hyderabad very grocery beds come because and cook, of so to we'd and the forth, the door be lost WILLIAM MULDER without quite that kind of sufficient through on #5 them; families, their met their neighborhood at as organized identify parts dwellings called villages. see to Delhi, of in whether us the was office underway, thought when when can we were We country. get got We Barbara, J835t you could and put able our to go boys in considered were was no of boys too the a Fulbright things way or college be in but I the could a was meet our altogether rather were not, a so-- telling when remember university the is said, was a Indian name I I which to the out that. and underway. find we as be The lived my were to its there There get had to can and because wife their invited town. people college, to trips to Each Hyderabad classes and village the adapted, the informal. going frequent we course, Secunderabad, these but prestigious seemed about So part College rather where in that Nizam term up town. and be A had us, bring neighborhoods, the way, of and of would called. part by of humble to as with would We Hyderabad spartan families, they was almost least conféfence their it British-trained, communicate children. loosely rather to occasions village, city, Both, English we festival help. the making administration was going started. exercised girl, who to Oh, get they [laugh] was then WILLIAM MULDER about #5 twelve, Catholic was into sisters, a private St. Ann's school, which was and that was very well. had a school run and they run by That 1lot of it be discipline. EC: Now, attending taught entirely It English was and Telugu, but it wore up a us. E€: The Now, They is, our youngsters what did some on boys a bus blue the for that of to very their Hindi Indian came by take them and a So day the house and into town. She blouse and white with teaching. the their Was Urdu each ordered well and languages, Barbara. regularity along about would teach of jumper kind got Ann's, English? off That St. compulsory little pigtails. same medium. not go picked in that was she'd that day for peers. that done in India, at English? That the was in college below level, the So does Yes, is that they level, language. call see, throughout instruction 1level is in in English private and schools, English. prevail undergraduate (what in considerably. regional You <college instruction E@s English. today, too? Although colleges It's only post-graduate) 2 more are at it's and more at the resorting to the the graduate still level universally WILLIAM MULDER the #5 English their medium. peers. involved They'd in there). Both graduated cheerleaders, American became the the EC: East they Dick team. was Tom and he scene--its he colors, began small, in a had was still a And exhibit Secunderabad they by very taken British itself by forms the and Culture his end all- interests, called of been Y.M.C.A. which that the had the of work of element a twins. regular of variety got was the artistic group painting. one-man where with They of member the well (there outgoing, already Group, there very picnics. High made Culture a on were a shops Was from with staged along especially--one friends and got taken good Indian on, be Dick and kids. basketball boys athletics--basketball Y.M.C.A. had The our that in so Group one of stay. remained there? Very strong. Well, Paul Scott's novel, that. Lipton's carry-overs conducted. was a only very Lever strong influence English the of was were Staying Tea, of within there On. Cadbury business years business the that of 443 in met as people the Dutch British Shell independence. presence, British. established We people Chocolate--these Brothers--the ten British A and Central Hyderabad of 0il. 1like were had That There was course the Institute in in which of the WILLIAM MULDER #5 British Council cultural arm U.S. in as of the Information that there and was a teaching setting I'm say, quite as Indian outlawed. of the the Health UNESCO. All and An assistance a University of the we was eager of to The agricultural 114 at and in we vigorous on There with its new- improving was a lot offices their Manhattan and there. there States. had of regional university the of was organization had a realized in with so but calendar, CARE programs Kansas along currencies, get person. university They currency turned, I was Untouchability Organization representatives. the changed national that outside. kinds from 1less striving. ordinary from World a society assistance or regional As I more have and year. motion. had and first in They Everywhere independence lot concerned, was states wupward a society the legally the was independence, years fact, international of the found life an hand University, ten how was Osmania the a of that currency, here matter from course that a the as had impressions didn't national was academic lines. you As of just us--they it reorganized that for at by linguistic is Russian So sort government, visiting within had British teachers. you impressed called, supplied far giving was Service Russian. as it a I had think stake in WILLIAM MULDER #5 helping to upgrade equivalent of what International Cooperative there of who would get them. They'd to the important Now that It to the behind positive the Service; to Macaulay's . it was for TCM, The of and wives activity participate into visit observe the a the with country handicraft ordinary forth. a So be ICS, part should means be that life was an of from officers, one The became the of was ICS minute medium part all of of avenue powerful civil Indian unifying one powers, the bureaucracy stability. the the colonial pretty legacy. influential the other considerable independence of kind out so as TCM. would to Agency known that or and after part methods paddies as exchange in the TCM--Technical the trip rice a a a field to known was to was connection. lent English a village left was widely Gweneth a compared British on farming wvisit there, EC: go was involved so the called attached were together observe outlet, It There became Development Americans men production. later Mission. were the food of 1315 service--what Civil Service Indian very Administrative Lord determined that throughout India them which prestigious. which so was that to there the speaking preferment the service, could other on English. aside from be the And the WILLIAM MULDER #5 British-Indian There and was also, colleges educators that the work of but of English, and legacy. in which accommodate sometimes ultimate were young that making rupture so in Jainism, And through members contacts of these very we Moslems the thrust motion We Islam, and what was in different faculty town, worlds 116 we at got the on a be and immerse so what forth. personal basis or through intimate glimpse Indians a situation Hinduism, Osmania an To to and the think, impressive Parseeism, acquainted of times. to ways, I Indian was way trying seeds wanted what the Hindus, very the British 1local The an a in the British British was was the too, So and into Isles-- judiciary, the to connection traditional, what made times. mistakes. during tribute that fiction, and Indians British of the Scotch of paying the schools members memoirs proud to bad family of Many them courts, ways becoming British. from experience. was with find administered, in of the those between much influence getsidinto of intelligentsia. faculty in very of planted influential ourselves Tt was American was and their indeed the educators terms land by you fiction in the everywhere the reminiscent Indian principals, generation, influence, the course, became Scottish, thats for established principals, from army lived in and WILLIAM MULDER gave #5 us respect for observances--why be For that have a the little to to modern that pot buildings right those cullture; s with for the toilet taught know but about there accounts hand, use. them a was because A rule germ some theory, connection and the So the right hand food. polite And society eating we with did 117 in was the uses that into even there's the reserved suppose, They that didn't way back, between used the of to pick in very dinners with even or so food cleanliness hands a paper up is way, always a ‘little s pot I festivals him to hand the we into toilet apparently then out picking suppose would the pollution. I toilet up thumb, a the left I he that never of of of does with over adapt the by whereas where in for pollutionfood. and to distinction, the water, carries want aback goes carries foot to habits. peasant the not might, he " ® thatiiwater = That left at don't have available. with and understand. culture institutions down who the that and to that water himself, And taken toilet a When filled himself. tap have learned came things is tradition We been then Westerner relieve brass have the culture. of done. we of Indians paper clean water a the field but one shock are might practices, indeed, say We example, continuity things judgmental. certain the WILLIAM MULDER #5 families. That argument knife to that that (and was has this was simply you been used by before use your easy manipulate rice and which the right hand and use with least chopsticks, here Well, these would be are or judgmental spill. the But better type of Indians to as forth, food you with could the Japanese using fingers. examples, American--man to be very of practice that were things, so the an these food, and so superficial academic much fun just a was gather thumb fork others always could a an many (lentils), the for about the again or how it And and spoon knows was they very possible housewife it slide the done, a God dal and with use hand. the skill was detergents) own the it it if the do way well, course, to the or taken which and it woman-- aback you come and to understand. EC: I imagine they their, didn't I have was unusual to The Hindus--the was going to burial--their a say burial, treatment of not that the dead Westerner. Hindus cremate. The distinction, and Moslems bury. Iisee. So there what is they taken birds of is that call up to prey, the a towers great clean the 118 of height bones. the silence and That Parsees where the is the wvultures, their have body the method, WILLIAM MULDER and in #5 Bombay except for itself the very among the and centuries-old a course, the or the speaking meeting sense of sometimes and a by were the very sometimes who that how at English-speaking immersed I was largely about They know enough, take my was not of theilr see, the of youngsters, a by disciplined own' and culture, in carried on, you been a or the the way felt I were lore. knowledge an up these in through--how way that was quite traditional growing two college British-Indian the in essentially bookish knowledge I realized form. and history. American-- example--would simply because of who the turn, traditional, at and course, 1) the their had and done intrusion abrasive had in for of tense the students all West is faith turn, are combination training could new, 1level were you past into my M.A. they they, culture, ideas schools But American the radical the Westernized--their little and little their experience--you successful very practiced everywhere the first old of farming in enclosed still things way it is Everywhere conducted, put tower article way the Western a surprised of of or huge that an the is me is a practice. college, business is and This it's turned--let we're a in way top Parsees. whether school, there know in it. about But youngsters to be a loss. it had E WILLIAM MULDER notice #5 that attention between done to the for of the it came which many Indian what they oral to one me of try to say know a relate R. or were grown Bill, you time. There up were Did town called the in as far students, there over must have this have of almost this 120 a been its ethos? How to had mind So he to an I you that they would whether it. And I they, lacked in fashion. considerable rising, influence and School, knew rootless a created Mission what were school, I does There Malgudi, to the something literature, as do. very were character. their to What who Albert conscious in went and strove relate Narayan, Sawyer ancient from asked i K. Because literature, literature. school--the was on. were things, was Finn, that Tom things so American own boy of I called continuity American there. the your a what lot themselves feeling. way connections. was like sort contemporary E@: make in about was a it fictitious story having classes Huckleberry novelists learned the What English-speaking it teaching to myths? mythical, and in introduced story, a the Western might had of in toward American a traditions loss occidentalization i Indian a and conscientiously you is have literature was this feel since centuries--the home Indeed writers upon length of nationalist attitudes WILLIAM MULDER toward #5 you, The when you scene. He tried to personalities. American and find Time at Magazine. first great had products the always I've India of people So procedures. ceremonial recall hotel 121 we diplomatic stuffy the warmth desirable. were I had very much on that the Americans, and feeling for of who ambassador depends it a Indian the to well the of some wundue and vision, of a made Bowles, Chester man very were Ambassadors shirt-sleeves of kind a was 1like related family his and breadth, significant administrations 1like a was He success. be to 1is about not. were the relations, official ambassador An difference. great certain they Nixon, Under good. among promises its keep to of a play I as photostats 1life did America relations, Kennedy's, you as Madurai Churchill Gandhi's to Under independence. there and Roosevelt Britain urging in role your America's of to go To see and yes, that, impressed in checkered a is result the independence. related memorabilia do years relations as close between exchanges to later welcome as 1India South in did trying went? very Indian of support were Indo-American think I you you first of history one. what were or program, were and was Coca-Cola how startled stayed, Time we on there were the to rack. WILLIAM MULDER Of a #5 course, free some now flow of coming impressed us States. impartial We felt the seemed of in the This is Mulder, India, back So hung side two and we're and with as I up some was of ONE our of else we of in on the broader many United and and did that Indian drew events than OF more relations with our own. TAPE] third talking our I or openness the interview about his with William experiences impressions in fear think, to to slant There United But for struggling a was States Nehru's country to put the of United in that he brought States we were that there Communism deny the IneTndias reporting. was, a and States-- SIDE saying, with sources, Russia. getting such India openness papers is him. tendency, the and newspapers papers OF into something international United [END ECs And own were Indian there publications breadth our we view through where English-language than We common India. the the so and from was sources is films out journalism, more that news. dinis always that its 122 I was to - of the fear on was 1leaning of a the neutrality, on a great MWinternationail militarily economy was squelch experienced termsh India doctrine that information, so a part of toward I think, weak, that good footing, was WILLIAM MULDER really #5 the most appreciate viable that. The policy, neutralist international politics did neutral a vital a about strategy Well, for lot of keeping in the thirty to India, of course, in the relations would be But India treatment. The terms of government stronger tilt We a member of word got out that was tell a that sense my Krishna tat. hurt of friends, Menon." The people's rivalries, Kashmir kind of time the of that not treat national pride. imperialism. "Well, we [laughter] issue were 123 was at as a have So it still the constant once him time. civil was the And to but when of the highest Dulles kind very Our convenient used Dulles was clear the Under I and place said at it and security. organization. had and very Pakistan Pakistan Kissinger moral chapters second regional felt visit Nixon was was powers. comprehensive Pakistan treaty consciousness there under sense Ambassador--"Do level," that needed base, Indian know was it India, a a of first many and terms the provide towards that so to that that been came India among U.S. given own ally. the do was our at I that since have in but balance there to mean issues, years between view. Kissinger, in odd I image not some impossible balanced and there have you of tit prominent The to have for in regional disobedience WILLIAM MULDER #5 activities. through Gandhi's his example civil and political demagogue would and tactics "whatever, was the for these old lesson revolution, but independence, obtaining freedom begat 1lot disobedience imitators so in every attempt over once then 1little you that have you hunger very again or disruptive. It unite power to some strike you the fall of grievance, a were a in and a have quarreling among yourselves. ECS How do in the India? I've you think Crown" Would heard things, the programs they from and Masterpiece I have would looked friends think who they representation. considered as profound just And portrayals before also and the Forster's are insensitivity of the it them the East-West war very fair the that often imperial 124 if as point are balanced and '40s with So from after. in Considerable of view. oM snobbishness ruler. novels represented anything, goes most the India. Indian of in these a immediately relations to the and of and Scott's and in favorably? videos Paul Jewel received seen British-India critiques, colonialism, part of during of have "The been penetrating Passage understanding works being have upon find impressive Theatre These BisiEish and the power I think the on the these WILLIAM MULDER #5 portrayals, there have been well well received Well, always about these interest in popular and at the stop in there will things. We India and level think of intellectuals to million--approach group coming citizens numbers are by the three factions front there. India popular vote--is Communists economically could in begin point socialist through already in depressed. 125 gone one Indian half a a select aliens or those Russia. There there always in is has Russia, no into united been that striving country democratic thing you divided as a approach is of in of interest so think when quite to offering terms The and over to India with, my justice social began I presence resident strong party avowed achieve a now, into academic official. a our U.S. and been, are have is Besides, an as who the States, who Gandhi. divide migration by can't there to 1large U.S. you Communist never million the in are was sensitivities informed United Indians and the them, Gandhi to interest of movie, have third--the the a now, with visits but to really have the the national Americans Russians spate think mean be a a don't I versus popular to I their there's the quite Pakistan. maybe that been received. imagination then way has means--the much as up 1lifting that to the the the Indian WILLIAM MULDER #5 government has resisted nationalized of the steel the EC: has textile Now, do any the of to It It see, it has nationalized the is not much left for materially. as others have similar our but much such or lands, nationalized there offer of has nations the Fulbright banks. You other seizure industry. industry. Communists or the is other Russia, Britain, programs to involvements? Yes. So they have That's what right. they was a the religion recognized institutes that comparable to place. our reading several rooms and Indian publications. in terms of I a in book 126 literature West German 1Institute, the 1large cities 1libraries simply house their culture centers outlets. They subsidize they widespread visited name. the means languages, think never his information have Mueller after Goethe "Bhavan" Russians the have Max Indian called have U.S. he and are Germans Bhavan. ancient the they program. The on India are The Although 1is in on. Mueller work they cultural Max his centers Elsewhere too. going orientalist. himself, cultural there, Exchanges call great India and scholars have important it populist all over and or and in Russian the distribution U.S. of WILLIAM MULDER their #5 1literature. everywhere Karl in books there people's and Lenin, children's and galore is a for and very I possibly those are prominent strong going have on connections, joint ventures certain joint ventures. much wider a cooperation than Foundation, coming Ford had Another be programs It seems like back to year it might be agricultural as when don't hear about in if you of speak India, of body. American, as very of have trade is of culturally. be Dutch connections projects and But Ford presence, the have over the depending on population literacy. control. Another year Sometimes it these side. by programs agriculture, great famines even with 27 the business, Foundation these of some the side lot terms improvement. on going are There's Japanese American might In in find of it a of the printed. the The and The So might buy can undertaken. set variety One year are you French, and Rockefeller a priorities. might you Foundation, years the are cultural four: organizations. and there's the German, cultural business beautifully the stores authors French is the great presence. which Russian, pittance active Frangais think a book the Alliance the EE€s India, Marx, short, The our that must have been, successful. You to hear you used improved means of WILLIAM MULDER #5 communications. So this area must have improved considerably? There's been a feed itself. Sikh ambitions, American The of wheat that to simply Yes, --all of That's seen on Kashmir or Madras, the the together, projects in in a hardy Mexico yield of one of the land fundamental one when big is and assistance Indian and has been fertilizers and the and the 128 of the five of the comes contention distribution rivers. five and to quarrels, Pakistan Institute and versus there technology, These So commercial education--now of That's rivers. economic, Bombay. California there. bones concerns it see. over institutes Kanpur, you over technological, or come pumps-- means--the very MIT An experiments and Indus Delhi, revolution. a the five by Grundahl--developed from and torn me Pakistan ventures, to and So may so to some-- another India. four power ability to and are green combination irrigation Punjab a his The India's unhappily name India water these now Punjab, working right between what through of this --films of like miraculous. I've in experienced the installation EC: Punjab, something strain advance agronomist--his moment, took great are of are IITs: comparable Technology, WILLIAM MULDER where #5 the most available to competitive great to has cooperated and the the great and U.S. when to the the product and of kind of Western in political of significant that over understanding see partnership this person the having Indian other at India. given her education and Vellore, so or largely having on we Now has meant in the the and think diplomatic has Down impressive because up Fisher, dedication is has house missionaries The that it countries. generations and Indian and of military 1129 and Wealthy for hand economy woman, of again working a that. of West have literacy medical assistance, you has another, a overlooked or with is individuals or Russia impressive hospital American them, There beacon great time. here you aspect developed often greater of examination the most by that a forgotten all it's founded often But ways, results. South, started part and of highly lists, Britain So is waiting of 1Indian missionary-type a one Great it's long to another. many improving becoming with the so yielded dedicated comes training and with societies with Lucknow, life yet advanced expressed indeed it technical 1Indian, another, with In of admission cooperated glove being kind young get with education. in the traumas Germany in advanced so terms. provided in turn West a of WILLIAM MULDER course #5 we get impressions the holy States impressions, of say, yearning on the knowledge we're simply by part that. trustworthy teacher, embodiment of to listen the analogies in conduct yogis and swamis, to. Their that of comm;nd persuasiveness changed out to by be [chuckle], EEE from that Now, you for on. It a that. as kind took period What would And might of were be family the three of a 130 for East. And often than there is and a the of the fascinating make are impressive actualities, easy your to them our own the yield life of a Indian some are greater is didn't to being turn evangelicals lasting effect [laughter] there years, <changes the to very many some preaching. your of as the indeed thought to that so on philosopher, 1is and be feel if corrupt there ideas the language--these facility and a they of the those, who and to way more listened moral life. of Indian have come and Westerners of example, we between and cleaners scholar English-speaking--their whom gurus, commercial everyone best sensational the mysteries the a the And itinerant Americans honorable religious tradition. of for and of a very to But some in about taken rather mysticism, swamis, capitalize their not Hindu men--the and the when and that you were there was later this your family WILLITAM MULDER #5 experienced Fulbright All on between Let son, being me Tom, a human the made impact. very have than bound in to and I provincialism. that these abundant, seem to people that be been for That a by brief visit was So five that outlook, a of in years by a that forms, a that it valley- American and are full, realizing that philosophies for and making '62 '60, let's as after Ji35]" an the for that and In has stereotypes out so a been general and of has religions them in first tolerance stereotype getting lives in think double the certainly youngsters out then and great sort bound that. has relationship, a emancipation affected It to especially the have an clients, get have now continues work. I working fulfillment, scene themselves. But He's and among the and impact colors suppose Utah an bright international important us, first painting scene. his here. Well, to already Indian in see ground an other bound the who common people your moment was the architectural, sunbelt family and of Southwest, an and a 1Indian inspiration terms and just who the painter in back one by primary appeal go the excited established be time experience? right. my that forth. see, American first for They've I went are that selfall back specialist. wvisit, and WILLIAM MULDER #5 already it was growth. In certain the wupper northern will possible parts hand. state monsoons, whether they sufficient get because you certain places, are have having see effect. bamboo all little ladders and up the the largest that way. story by for a all who's untouchability a dam populace destroy story of new and the is Indian the which of and this were villages .incarnation, one a new 132 think is world Raj Mulk great issues, an and one was utter of built remember a Anand, a about a the deities. embodiment bricks was telling it persuaded those deal built their stories that writer, because of being their I being it goes carry in projects climbing the a seems dam fascinating. social was to abode proceeds, it, in written opposed the they control, it that the whether the huge workers dams this prominent Marxist about of a India of control see as the not, flood earth-fill--I earth-fill So or flood To these or And scaffolding precarious mortar not. tremendous in behavior late drought has calamitous. the or still drought be come rain but with and rains economic weather a can to either their constructed high the tremendous be that subject a India, can Bihar be see of There of always to story 1local going But as to the simplification that of the dam this was divine a WILLIAM MULDER being, it #5 and it generated to be effect of an a That over India. of a first marriage. went on my American been by was had an thrust made the had only age is into nine here the situation was example of symbolic going all and had Helen's of our months had was own, old. I when I been a society, impact on from again Indian see or remarried Barbara So influence important say which available little youngsters was the to in two Paul interesting neat power step-daughter Fulbright. family it A I the of dare 1965 about first I and We Paul. Emily new thing, step-son and that deity. to Well, on guess of then counterpart old kind And waters modern taken William the ancient conversion way. accepted. and seemed a was young and it's of that goodness. The on them experience. EEs Your financial Much improved American was the by Council then then, of Council can't there, ask this we dipped into discretionary front. So we Learned to good his better? thank and on of go (Fred the paying its president's three and put years 1313 our back own and fund, for said, "We way." Once so on. sort travel in Burekhart Committee Scholars) accommodations fund, had little Societies Exchange family had Ev, president International a of money Hyderabad, He a up which WILLIAM MULDER was at the #5 city Osmania Studies had time happened been to librarian from be a of Osmania One Candadai of Anether ' Ph.D.. family. They was were assistance in like sugar and The Indian shops were registering us were matter had a book, going back those necessities. B. being these our I own recall 134 teaching his post and @ his we had So tremendous again. The at things the time. provide and had to equal to Dbasic the 1little have--after establishing coupons days, that Weber teaching. of to Utah-- at Kulkarni and war typist from income, You have to Ph.D.s system, police a a blanche order the staff; carte rationed your who was Hyderabad. shops. part- section going in some commercial were rationing with to ‘H. what government residence--had at get government, no back who helping rice now in year skeleton the is there with the the University; here Wtah, colleagues, necessities So there friends, access, from who from developing Fulbrighters a Ph.D.s--Indian Seshachari, College, with Fulbright which the Osmania on. our with of and from so first inaugurated borrowed and my Center, one there, bookkeeper in charged formally borrowed and State taught Research direction really. I had University, American before where or in little order Seshachari your ration to get was not WILLIAM MULDER #5 married the then, first We week started the but or out new simply to with about another Utah Daman Reddy back and was and a connection. but young his company under way. the who been our there. Secunderabad railway Reddy pharmacy family we has a at that were come as to the so was a excited back time. None home." designed pillars, verandas, 135 house, an and the when is son my of of of first doctor. southern got his said, not ready we was connection, looked large, a all acre in he is of little Utah, and us was it because here that that of And name the of again, here's the was of of bungalow symmetrically huge result about driver railroad University large family the on And doctor was was own He headquarters So, this old Reddy the degree, occupied over 1is system. had Dr. be and by of to going degree pharmaceutical Fulbright It live. man getting had us. from wing proved car us. far one enjoyed pharmacy Hyderabad physician it to with too in for place A a not center's better managed coupons housed Helen the taken somehow their inadequate and for and bungalow center center, had in share building, Seshachari looking was small The small the to a 1library too rent two in university. their Kulkarni "My being to take at it, beautiful, stone, ground, large and we WILLIAM MULDER simply #5 fell about in the into to fix up to be its We out had in grapevine American it, the you old at our disposal same or the the age and School, they years for great reader, lot So Barbara look So Emily and seems that to that time [END OF TAPE] I a how that an know had of a left Emily, car with who was went to the pictures of one in quite a school. in the learned was been, that you We alike spent the staff, fast have see was that from Swami back. had when of-- 136 had Before and exactly at repairs amazing Helen school and do, of It's town. house. our to lot getting walking in a travels to met a Raj separate in talk American Helen was Word come blouses. three a ever the know, bearer--the coming that Ann's and promoted India. children other, jumpers same You number Fulbright. servants the St. first is a fortunate the family and about cookhouse in was gave the works it that Quite with everybody getting So were place. here place. but building. that Raj, own. that done, starting with British coming we'd love their blue disciplined Emily India was I a think THIS IS TAPE TWO OF OUR THIRD INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM MULDER, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF ENGLISH AT THE UNIVERSITY AND THIS IS PART OF THE COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM. TODAY IS FEBRUARY 23, 1988. [EVERETT L. COOLEY IS THE INTERVIEWER. TAPE #6 OF THE SERIES.] EC: Bill is telling particularly WM: his Yes, three the American Centef for a for of anywhere whatever seminars round of parts of accompany visits the me to as country most of many as the 137 I and getting in help--he plans laid started, our for center road--drew the down carte was it would consist from come could by around India, and they would receive 1list conferences. different center embarked time. and Together regular a on universities possible, to invitations and issued center the and discipline mailing our on getting any and among They members. corresponding experience the the because forms membership that Seshachari somewhat was journal--that the and and said, newsletter a got budget--we small develop campus important of way, helped multi-academic with and 1India, on I've as the had the very was Well, by I in there. moving with center the after and staff India. in sojourn Studies, working and experiences Institute budget a treasurer, was was Intercultural at blanche up That secretarial underway his long Studies departments the of second years. running in us at different Helen we would got to WILLIAM MULDER know the academics visited was the of "Well, of challenged me, United how we all out it Did tells I the always books So, I on maybe did of be content with wonderful years of the center that many We did, and in I local She books I on recall bookstores, establishments British things and and be it well Egyptian set that at in a as became 138 fihere. kind of academic known, those model for me. initiative, should a not just catalogues and That India he sojourn. outlets. England. found a we expensive in harvesting vigorous 1looking spells as his because material? his did take presence to and that through versa, gathering during Jjust published as find vice Atiya would with social or effort, certainly our for studies." counters of East it books the Dr. Middle individual books who Foundation. our or big Atiya unconsciously lot got the places of realize ordering under stories often the never always Reddick, rupees to [chuckle] from similar thought 20,000 and challenge. learn us Olive Educational relevant way a recall in "You'll get administrators I put States." of you the U.S. books would was the let's purchases the and bookstores. director said, EC: #6 Often way, there Well, because were three in terms experience the some that highlight became we because mecca of WILLIAM MULDER Indian scholars getting the some Others, different of called budget study grants. scholars and would an opportunity maybe times, get their from from the members, coming Now, to I'm come a questién to tfiat the center. if that doing or to combination summer times first, it We to your during they could recognition to achieve Yes, of tied to there Was hope boundaries The scholars scholars graduate desire their or support do our at institutional to things. were Commission. influence. the 5319 got became of they that even began you was off the resources vacation Grants people of the we issued that the center their within had come your did grants prospectus we and what then some encourage grants, manageable, they through States Well, the and was so United were and fellowships advanced, study to maintaining of and were themselves, to you There University effort been, of research, Fulbrights system consisted universities. aware here a own on introductory whatever universities, go had formed during festival their to they submit, research leisure, them, applications their given EC: We levels, of pursue after our terms to of connections. part in seeking ready, U.S. their at #6 make there work in did any the of what your last most India? to it possible WILLIAM MULDER for #6 those scholars, teachers than American subject was our For when matters, to who could who could, Fulbright and Smith-Mundt a to provide knowledge Ph.D.s--we on them about did not just a to either the teaching dozens, United States. or grants even on start in who went Many it for government running U.S. give on more resources, the awards, a them opportunity get with of needing an never many embarking so provide those own, EC: scholars, object hundreds teachers, or their terms of on to degrees-- No. --we were Ph.D.s, U.S., most I either got the off center. it something own mind piece morning We were "L give it and like, as well to as so sat 5ust have to' research, in the and marriage." 140 my center. The I'm at assistance give and ‘up' it. started man did half-baked, down of ever typewriter saying fun to the for loeck on in I many I a or the requests just for went think at requests Research," "In I sitting I you at writing or who university getting But TN many subject of one [laugh] "Search own their projects ISIEElleNpiece; and on But thought-through research subject. that their started uncritically for at influential struck resource. should not me a wrote a a“copy I of called out with know his giving the WILLIAM MULDER precise #6 wording. that, but mind and I It carried and topic that and we published we were became called universities on Sheet and All research of Research," librarian in Boston, was given his to and that's the at the center. someone was Well, we check list Obviously to So be We ransacked of this our renewed the a of and 141 any of MLA Indian able or and Indian College I'm told teachers a thing kind we check extended, to "Fundamentals essay thing the aids, that Hemingway a Style to Simmons as of how the researching of terms at collection kind in research kind on See, very and 1in materials was by a Research." in mimeograph interested formulate finding students would to booklet, widely, classes of that reprint aids, of woods research, training supervisors the available 1little post-graduate model. to own pamphlet courses together got of conduct of circulated by into than your little widely that put who'd knowing scratch no that so a from to kinds aids, of "Fundamentals were effective required of permission made scholars. part how got more forays starting There We metaphor preparation methodology. document. a your the really much on making knowledge was and at that of of guide were doing lists. Say, Hemingway. provided the a center. would have supplemented WILLIAM MULDER #6 periodically. But years--it's the in been center was '89--a lists founded; for it will collection was for sociology, subjects. The that we States, became departments pursue scholar of to choose politic were and doing. They richness for that serve (we they careful and British studies in subscribed journals by work the we had example, to, I time 142 many the guess, we were related institutions some one we English was going in and British we pushed the things and had to what we British pointed to the sources that professional so could journals seven through, of teacher American over to American So, with we of comprehensive, availability way library For these subject. the to political inspiring a perceived them. in the providing research the check got and literature tried had no do American we that very seduced an We Council. or these And and that The course, of extremely worry American years all known, literature on culture, to twenty-five history, life is well anymore. materials be so British the which began literature of the since standards literature, study over now made in So years aids. research science, starts. be and establishing know-how United the twenty-five bibliographies reputation the are almost great and the these hundred and these WILLIAM MULDER #6 journals are American doing not history,) research and example. studies to people American universities, of support highly we But their research on more strategies the rest. I experience I think guess Yes, you Davis he our side, that, it after were Bitton book was I came looking for was on was. 143 key United to was to speak, new to have of the learning and kind States, librarian committee-- a begin success that the was repeated and of kind to the in their that States--to back because That it because that was acquisitions a these to librarians a so of most and as three American back collections. the suppose go own the have specializing missed that on librarians about would we Indian collections center all that for they get perceived and for encouraging own our history of resources conference, didn't I promoting HE? what successful because with. in to people conferences center their or 1literature the on to European 1librarians matter and as universities, came subject well the at promote who literature serviceable early work Indian librarians the the together in as bring intensive American comparative of to universities of British one was to broadly matter, So, designed were in subject days limited here, all of and I WILLIAM WM: MULDER --on that talked of #6 to my me being time I we'd been "I search through India." elements of librarian, enabled it. established And a in through and make a seven that direction has for all second We been was was, out this from as not Asia of widening 144 the physical a good you general knowledge (because that I went had been been given) Southeast to Asia. scholars Sri Lanka, away as the China or Japan activity and major In sent studies university fact, me in to '77, Japan materials libraries. experience, ripple. those by far Foundation Indian all when Indonesia, Japan. American libraries, the and of getting attempt what had and were the jocularly, momentum had considerable the of we from Taiwan survey a by you made South grants did both of term, and repeat time the selected came this and about rather special and in it the years, there guess to by have and all taken three Philippines. I a not become Malaysia, resources just was had government because said in modél my I I him he me possibilities position, amenities would but to again and tapped the telling is But I no, us become want facilities in that India, you he about for with in and length candidate what wonderful back some doing think were at a got committee, too. So in Well, there WILLIAM EC: MULDER Now, I'm here as Was #6 aware a of some result that a of of your rather the students contacts. large How number of who have wide was people come that? who were influenced? I think we've literature quite come or my think every I to their get support grant was teaching I could of the that time, few the Jack could speak on influential, Year in of their when had He there. 145 all of a the was He or as I--yes, time the people had able the of a a travel to secure way for had the the if through, it. year--I scholar came facility, advantage number, voted full department. the word I at terms great Adamson because was a my conferences language spent time, behalf capacity. he took the through them simply that or was to in for English that These were has and some either Indian in spent grant American come But we Adamson during at cases, personally schooled intellectual the a department time very Fulbright course that and a in having recruiting. assistantship speak been no had support, in their universities. own because, here, them they doing through a and case of met own people department, result their center. dozen having at in a our the seminars he's to directly center and had And by say by spent a and he year was recognizes Fulbright of after we year WILLIAM MULDER left #6 after stationed at connected with center he told it become. had Fulbright many as kind of And is six term, University the and So may have that was was not visit the impressed period work, by after what Jack's think we had as here at once at scholars their He He did had--I Indian of he simply was seven Delhi. but was there we '65-'68. of center, me, or but there was that overlapping. the S. the stages remained No, three-year when different EE€: our one at Weber State the only one who has here? S. Moorty, who is now at Southern Utah State College. Oh yes. He was our first way, and another, TAs--he Seshachari thereafter Kulkarni should during over. several came say, his Got Kulkarmi, was He along got university a but was came was on 146 only his or as a one By he that had Brought his really He taught nine at Utah he His all family here. return. the fellowships. I after of Fulbright, fellow, and Ph.D. eight on research educated or here Seshachari. teaching the children unhappy He fellow, toward that TA. TA, teaching his a was with not as work who was years--seven University, India. and for State returned to department WILLIAM MULDER was not = treating department head degrees and poor and he learned his behalf. and he got I there think at think your the your an center so learned to some stand out in and those But not at which an meant 147 to and used to and and founding I of of the experiences family see on most their universities whom that that the I home first met of the outside the center we differences, startling of where then even wherever home very that extension regional is admired English with the island and here, memory? academics it on manner, other your and really were achievements the about education wrote there. there appreciate topography was out, scriptures both Are academic welcome Logan be was guru Indian way very in would teaching a a taught a who a American We of India cities Logan. some was on for considerable traveling the that study he experience. island, the in were center felt was group to down became something while that suppose time they at had I grounds in and small There looking by he of was remembered But center. you simply at a that. well. opening had was sojourn Well, the He one research an was philosophy Certainly that of house like was position his things very Kullsarni a there. him that He teacher meet EC: #6 when was, went not you we and only think WILLIAM MULDER of #6 coconut coasts Himalayas in topography and the and north, climate outlook that regions have--fierce their own yet a and of to by you some deracinated, their roots, they of and to the were and studying themselves, felt into to see, their be a pretty acknowledged country there's and the L, of Ylcoming to with culture of 148 at in parts differences of were so that what can they, than culture. argument, was and the look I was deeper own indeed fresh from stgdies, all, value India, being off institutions their that the were other regional persuasive that image the that contrary, all them union opposed American roots understanding N saildisustNas my that of as cut the and by and center being beneath sense Indian the from life of different argue on those American had, were scholars kind traditions to studying ground their an that scholars and common strengthening ever center in fearful that, appreciating the figured argue change the of to where they the conditionings sense used to the own coming would encountering India yet I I who that in their were But and developed who being startling people by critics scholars coming the and Plateau customs. nationalism. Indian Indians and a loyalties strongly Indian Seccan it's sense language now the I the case. backen perspective--you the center of the WILLIAM MULDER circle and argue being that looking my #6 as in an toward his believe budget important were not the there the we our had broad for our who stayed stay there. So year There The I see when were he insinuation wrote a was comical 149 come we were we were they a lot radical reply not a including of Marxist journal back in hurriedly?" been on CIA had about, India? --a expected administrative that truly term--'79-'82-- Mulder have to realized approaches three-year purely people whether so an promoting another rather might as or are leave of kind of is charge commerce invariably "Why I understanding. whether One and center one heart that of the from the in concerned there predecessor a two. that. to second question, his of at people of some because arrival did ways, spectrum states. Why both and the the toward balanced, in raised for a out international of culture look the could advantage who's chamber propaganda, the I Indian think officials sources scholars We truly had Marxist a collection objective, for to and Indian working of as had of persuaded subjects. inspect that was continue center, front the instrument American to and can also to I center It that circumference the culture circumference. our the American circumference, of We on to reasons planted yes, man we me sit WILLIAM on MULDER our #6 veranda count the number along the horizon. things with someone, CIA. The center Yes, it's the renting acres center. we got wing of that on a the of is has research road a that's glitches; too of a the respect institutes. a away a national the 1long right of, and And the in twenty-fifth 1life. now the 150 Now been on five ceded the to an there's other economic survey a central institute. it an as So academic of I've the university several status '89, were geologic call for We'd It's policy, far kind own. has a cover funds our of that Bicentennial government that always with. Library. public English, a extra There's part observing the periphery institute. institute during state the a Not live of these evidence to building passing is really have daily treat There was fact to for Osmania's There's institute. have Revolution, on institutes. be you In and research India thriving. It's itself that in today? land You 1looking and [laughter] humor. continues and of buffalo of something the center sense American provided, countryside, [laughter] radical It's the water American the of of a a everything EE: overlooking the park all other said, we'll anniversary of there occasional publication are is it, suspended, and The WILLIAM MULDER Indian #6 Journal According monies of to some are Studies Center the future. binational board the and and from American Foundation, Studies, AIIS, scholars of to matter. office in from both into the the American to have India a in So sides. The buildings, to put 151 some The Grants the a Ministry side Educational of of the Indian coin, a enabling American Indian subject presence, just a the except an facilitating American Hudies getting monies government money of representation U.S. study way from University undertaking, Indian the Indian. Institute physical binational for India-- side, other every be has in the 102U binational is Education, the a of Fulbrighter, universities no by part American operating American is The may the Embassy, Delhi. organization. is of the representatives American which go They Board, the and consortium Center on of American "foreign" on office institutions Office Education, the and other no quote, American consists Interuniversity the a governed an Every American Commission, is is technicality. regulation. beginning, foreseeable a regulation on that director from on misunderstanding imposing The Indian spent a Research board. been be It's 1is Studies government to publication. whoever American into put the some money hostels, WILLIAM MULDER the dorms, and while university, the central the rent total money. Now operating rupees at the we cost disposal of cultural I some dollar some viable Are going kind of there would some be an lecturing the Indian is for also, because there of first enable there as a very to bring all That was the building when year, t i to came the be back or new so we'd sicilicar considerable of and be for picked notion back i fron block my for Ed then 152 previous the of '78, combining some the January took bless quarter's by years to him, work. July of three-year ISEV, S over courses occasion, that think at quarter another time--eight the Lueders that special I <case over, NallliNofasthiis of of with that a December winter up be event, in dashed building. present knowledge-;no '79, I anniversary? may that conferencing week me there in quarters, and dedication Seti of there twenty-fifth that effort the between no it's of government And and of had out American Yes, the commemoration, dedication I coming purposes. talk together. and is the provided percentage appropriation, for directors the government small the expenses. back there's right a from presence.° you Well, dollar renting Indian which and believe, were that's educational are EC: #6 that term. thatihdttistig all together I WILLIAM of MULDER my #6 time in India. [END EC: This is side three here. of his him you Western the two brought on in India, one campus the Review. and interview we've campus Review, publication, of and the Bill, Humanities this--the tape to Humanities Utah TAPE] experiences back were OF Mulder, Specifically, when ONE our William about bringing SIDE two with talking OF Jjust been now we're and and his of your was to activity assignments work with predecessor Exactly what did what it number had the been was behind finally result in? No, that the first goes way place, Hector Lee.and money to was because Hal called be devoted in Utah the the Utah encouraging. Well, to create gathered Then he Hal I ever think who to over to the history there the established 153 a Rockefellor journal, And of and it this and it was to research foundation multiple the that folklore, the by 1947 in gathering that years India Research Review. archives an in some results were to Humanities of Humanities was got Utah devoted went it establishment lore--Utah and a primarily were I Folland, primarily included suppose, before establish Foundation, also back objectives, various Hector, journal, was I materials primarily. and I think WILLIAM MULDER it ran and EC: #6 for two published Good "Thus Saith which 1is good of I the Lord, the Utah Humanities Review stuff. about family. his Deseret quite a he'd the poetry. Marsden Tale of published my painter Review number things, all I Hector been think brought running press, and there to the the I Olpin, terms of bringing who was Eyring--the Ray was after phenomenal. So triple job, as Press, run the journal. He Bentley I war, brought remember, direct it division, Western 154 the when Chico. Hal where had a hand was doing had that doing 1946 back the and Humanities in any been on little wonders in people to recruiting was extension renamed the on Then energetic campus--McMurrin, right he then imaginative, talked Columbia remember the doing from C. nicknames, to dissertation and Ray went His book, I Utah. maybe I C. something whether derivatives. on poet. know not. of patriarchal piece about campus Spanish-American A. a Ephraim's bookstore, don't or on story Underground," and ran something of the account Danish The Durham's of alphabet, was teaching A They Bentley--well, Bentley recall wonderful Christensen, the lot stuff. a polygamist Hal as material. Interesting A. a years that on, to A. was do a University edit Review, the and WILLIAM MULDER asked that #6 me--I Neff Chairman called me very so and who's Bentley, help So on.) Review," Humanities experience. my recommended telephone I did, [laugh] opening and I'd done a to name call. No, Neff it was my in enthusiasm, words were. said, It 155 was like "Dr. some Western Improvement this high college--and Neff "Call up of flush kind said, called recall 1I've and would I Hal. hospitable journalism--in of lot first and all had Chronicle The school, I'd and extension people being is which magazine the with Ghiselin's conference campus, on come a had and Little in, me called Neff just writer's the hosting in Cottonwood he but of mouth the at there out ranch his with very always was and faculty the under came That recall, I as Brewster supporting in conference. budget, department, our of member role important writer's Era a nominally was the of us, for teaching any did appointment--never said, and a have to had I day One member a nominally at but back, office his into guess studies my department. English Department--he English campus--I coming was I is (who the continuing sense the Bentley Professor to been in instructor an back I'd that in so coming '49, of summer Harvard, was guess Dr. Bentley." Hal Bentley's forgotten of a getting what tentative. the "Dr. WILLIAM MULDER Neff tells had this you're EE? #6 so kind Yes, yes. was over. eager of just incoming EC: recall it, drab they So, page, -a drab but was years to then associate just got too assistant. work, out to reading people for all of proofreading, very in a larger cover; nice University it type Press Shop. was as took Maybe in I it those not. in was Jjust I terms terribly some years. editor many running separated. cover it, that enthusiasm Humanities the nice constant. say I [laugh] them but were the and that--" editorial Printing very with over fourteen me, really the blue improved Review was us undistinguished probably it let's manuscript and think weren't as Western University they the on getting to I join grubby very and the £hink a someone, "Well, salesman, taken of for know. great lot but very Yeah. you reissued really i a and corresponding format, days on, manuscripts, They or come was a opinions, on come I looking experience." to always That's you're that Well, that. that and That Hal me My think moving and things 156 black the paper type. altogether to do, I assistant they and undistinguishedOh, connection finally to of that with gave the mayfie editor and When Hal editor. decided I could WILLIAM MULDER handle #6 it. labor of which I So love, gave and always organizing Studies two was part of excused from one my kinds things, and I'm and doing Well, the and ability. consider part to were you I the and the after all gave board, the of me all labor my of education, it. head was Instead It | teaching were years because which I you marks hours across as American English. all and of nine the hours, American Center. by the time American excused lot of the NDEA we Studies for and some took collection of when work, Fellowships, it got the Institute one-fourth paper lectures, special then Review nine devoted Here teaching, Intercultural really, of so truly Bill. this, Studies was the great foremost for freshman manuscripts I amazed, to people matter surely, Center a my and manuscripts reading those to University--the given wonderful reading next as the was by time first of those of of education, I done of say the class Reading lot devotion hours, being at and and Review. a would things that were I Institute twelve it think Studies--that of EC: I of my was hardly hours. applied we we did time, American 157 Intercultural worth Although organize Studies it being was a fellowships, for and Center, a series organizing works of the because WILLIAM MULDER with #6 every When I your are still how and things so on, dissertation buy I guess, improved you in hard. had not assumed one in hard. terms very you time library worked we Yes, worked when to housed, have we that At see. $2,500 Hall. Spencer in of load let's And they think teaching EC: got up rooms the we and materials, of fellow of completed all these responsibilities? SEThatlistrightasTadbildnittasfiniishitthe TEhatitsBeri'ght he someone row of they And publish Ray for the the Western that said recognition. item man It was Review never think 158 a 1lot of to move in the saying once, that at UCLA? Some it Was with a problem as a him behind where that's Review. [laugh] this kind getting a result of a were here but to given being standing him there. presidents of Humanities pleased I the Utah--Utah, himself--Olpin, introduced to and degree the and presidents life doing was someone, of inauguration or number a honorary an was it line. commencement university, California Maybe a in stood the circle Olpin Ray recall I responsibility. I reading the of terms in in my of good a was it but it, to devotion quipped Sundays, Saturdays, Review. Humanities I've years best the given I've past, as Well, '55. till dissertation that of line if WILLIAM MULDER #6 nothing else. relations good EC: Do But anyway, person. image you of the have Humanities Western He knew Ray what was it a took good to public present a university. any idea Review was Political responsible A. whether influential OQuarterly? for the in I inaugurating success of the establishing the think the G. Homer Western was Political Quarterly. I wonder. of I don't know when that was established, but course-- Seems like it's Later. I think so, too, wasn't it called the Hinckley No, was-- It it was an later. institute of as an outgrowth Institute government or of his-- then? something 1like that. ECs Yes, yes. Could in well terms quality EC: have of was Do you have I think it the Annex Western Research been. We circulation high any were or of never a public major success sales, but the and-idea was over was doing Humanities Association what 1,500. our Review which 159 your Once subscription the mailing, with Hal the mailing they bureau mixed Modern Bentley was? was up at the Humanities secretary WILLIAM MULDER of. #6 They sent Humanities the article MHRA journal," EC: But it EC: a that I So had a Humanities I BE: guess Now, Out Bush said, us a Modern we got one Harvard who this a is is good article. wasn't that's it of "Hey, fine costly, of the one it? of the hair-raising remember. fifteen-year fourteen it or that Interculture I he to involvement with the Review? after Well, sent So episodes issue Douglas and little costly. you from he one Association. list, and was Very of Research splendid on all fifteen. is when you became involved with both a the Center? came at about--I oh yes, was doing for while. see. Because, doing I Humanities Center. By teaching that was down Pykstramisaid think I things. Jack Garlington, been in--well, three-year time my to half. down then to one when that just term, a very Review i Youlknow, was But have the might before I guess 160 di;tinct work load I and was think course under doing to I tigoon! all been--that went it was. to half. My Dykstra, Humanities Review have of Intercultural down Ehalstican! memory India From Dan Wand of T these went to must have for that '49-'59-- WILLIAM MULDER that's to #6 ten India went years. as to an It may have American Jack. So been in specialist, there was '62 when that an I the went journal easing of the responsibilities. EC: You became because I'm of your quite been on and had Studies Middle East we was campus. I I Olpins very close, think the U.S.--I he had an Studies Uh You at the an expand gave was in relationship first think he appointment here Egyptian taught at the at I the A. Ray several Asian studies, good to come for summer friends to address. Egypt. this school I think There's and to Michigan. I for come think Advanced Princeton. huh. know these details 161 better because a Atiya, Fulbright Institute '58 American include there, I had one--'57, become Atiya that studies, to he'd Atiyas the that first commencement the fact Japan, taught a fact area in because the organizing could personal to yeah, is visited I eyes, with Center India? India--the Atiya he Intercultural Ray's recruited think who in interested and think the which studies Atiya, once. to experience that He A. minute, Institute areas. the a in Fulbright thought with that wait some with experiences sure had--now EC: affiliated you've WILLIAM MULDER #6 interviewed him interest in children was invitation an recently. staying a to essentially big join appointment in dual the sure that States factor the in I'm in his faculty. history, to I appointment educate his accepting the guess rather he than because Atiya's was given languages-- he was teaching Arabic-EC: Yes. --as well as here, his went down back here first to down Lola, asked to this nice what fuzzy. I because of Yes, said get come his He told back he man, they paper he involved but teach and to the 162 wonder that me that do to the teach, it drove I was career, when Olpin establish it if help things was if we his help "I'll guess summer rapport. later we brought that anyway, was when was Provo--I me named wanted with I work he been Mulder, he occasion nice said, happened. the to summer personality, and young guess have very man, Center, that's to the a an before meeting, Had The was was down Academy by East he there us gracious. him Middle BEs took together. and history. Provo--this Utah fascinated get summer, They the Arabic permanently--must teaching. was some you me." get a can So, awfully director simply involved. but budget--this he did sort not of want thing WILLIAM MULDER and he #6 spotted temporary there of was Friday', building on the upper what became temporary That Road? Hempstead Road--on Homer to in remodeling big reading went supervise that and and Llewelyn McKay's for south and Events Center-- there. What's the and we side Paul that into fix name into and I up, got and the very 1lot create a Sheets a first-rate Anna Cullimore I remember title--what Intercultural A Marian business. to Road. were it lent and later, objection Hempstead facilities. library Uno Languages got to collection, went of Hodson we that the Lilly Decker, -Center the seeing room, secretary, one on--the campus Special building Durham instrumental of the that got we but highway? Hempstead G. on. man a that? carry 'Good from across to his was I Okay. you was it- Studies. Oh. And he said, "That's department, and recruiting languages title a that is bureaucratic Center for confusing. you have faculty we've the have money a these Middle never taught before, We were Intercultural 163 agreed to to change Studies. We language for for confusing." hassles We and Eastern but whatever the had are a the the name to lot of WILLIAM MULDER #6 letterhead stationery, on A. it, and State. the We had name, used Ray a and shorter shorter form." stationery. only with the main, had once exam. By were against the blue normal books. image of istone stand anymore, found it of of up in one and he It was behavior. in of he jerked impetuous this man And things" knew how is a he knew, difficult At the 164 same for the his time, blue foot got the polished and this, I in people. see stomach here my couldni%t could to an but butter-up me old handle, and I recall cabinets. finally when shock give times, very that unbearable to rammed the in the metal at to a I all opened that possible. had and on well was these Very as and just and afflicted of what later, force, the almost operating. this gentleman. mimd ) came of outbursts. to Ohio changed very diplomatic emotional he about cabinet ingratiating kind sort morning physical person, was down we all I moved locked saved because great at letterhead along of heard new got as title letterhead We moments One a marvelous be did which old we full I ego. to sheer his a tried I books is in up So the what the printed and bookstore. off [laughter] we'd do situation oversized when with "Well, cut form, usually absorber He just Atiya an recall said, similar I a I he I him that was, a WILLIAM MULDER #6 scholar with ambitious a good to recall Oh Ray learned how to objectives and was then the 1long make so a did of finally give and me on. NDEA meanwhile, and the so was brochures as something for Asian studies. could to Latin went Middle before but I was we present guess and it's I our that '59 for writing Latin what did it 'And those think, and little studies, I did for what I engaging ingbuilding ten some something recall I I became American budget, interests. got were intercollege, studies, studies, a " Hindid. When Crampton, American had 165 aspect--you East? Eastern other we to received, Greg for SinceI Kullkarnigstomdosome collection into something promote answers, organizing on prose and how the homework. he well Middle chaired best of on--persist? committees. my called impressed year. interdepartmental of and Hal grant. I something lot intercultural to Ray, how and were A. on supervising a later critical Oriental way done budget We the were figures a year Washington who very recognition, first to I'd these first thinking went telling all Well I connections, national that officials had How yes, and I indeed marvelous Center program, A. getting EC: the various NDEA that get Atiya, the whole these footing. Bentley, on all Seour trans-Atlantic WILLIAM MULDER tons of items were #6 Atiya's, on Japanese not well, it thin, but was clear there meetings, wanted to Mostofi. There a called EC: head Peel--Roy sponsoring such degree political we promoting about interest, that and recruited had him which International We who his in of growing Brought of think think Dean too I of I we African-- ourselves means a got and meetings. in studies. special English; president, Turkish and get in Asian curriculum. in recruited this many and the officer was good was to spreading became there someone service of and vice area feed best instrumental Tyler So Latimer, a ways or Lyman All were academic intercultural Studies. we were about my languages, very as doing culture. the was talked was into Sterling time I been at a Fred foreign Princeton. back from science at we We Oregon. that time Peel. Yes. And of he suggested information organizing about the Middle East and so That's on. Reed-McLaughlin University strong in who the thing Turkish, our us 166 with strength from offering to East. going collection was conference Middle was where a for his a By sources that its NDEA was. We man at total $3,000. on time, budget got the McGill collection, Creer told us WILLIAM MULDER about #6 that. budget. We Then later Egypt. But of Middle a the lot who of managed that came East not was supportive terms in one to of the I think some tables Peel of the Iran went that one couldn't at the that the from center to called ourselves strong Arabic what, and with big from the up I on Israel. program, attitude 167 in were on taken before that Atiya all the who they Just one of on me although we called East what all occasion, Middle bored and [laugh] obviously, He on it, had table that bias. met subscription was complain a I a congregation local we a countries--from the another was arrangement remember from from It around on Iran--this course. And sit very building moderators. from either that that had study be this. at to brought could recall could we the teaching who I Atiya departments four-square the came it. with library it different but that picking stand rabbis the a of of for because there right blowup, newspapers idea people Egypt, around sources the up newspapers from send sources. had basis--newspapers Israel, to understanding rooms was the decision involved of We so the good with large Road. of 1languages, start a Hempstead of in out on from directly or idea a in area--studies good the conference faculty were that we was had a very teaching presenting the WILLIAM MULDER history Louis #6 of Israel. Zucker was represented being one of the important of this. But it was quite very Atiya to uncomfortable was also jealous on courses deciding did whatever Mostofi, clear he of that acceptable. come to Oh, mind so exciting. [laughter] Had a to be Socially, real Atiya was so man in registrar's was very think it There are method is recall to the to was, early my it this. for procedures a on astonishment registrar's little things now and or office was 168 very how a an guest example was a in high young I school Atiya I into, University. the oriental the basis, clerical one of charge daughter see, quite diplomat. exactly. personal this and center as was You presence. was who at Atiya Arabic, there admission came to but the Naira, it was forgotten I've get eager do office and it the people, admissions, generally. to running butter-up foreign admissions, these all Louis year, own related gracious, and Turkish his and in When diplomat--international to of of made ability think hold that presence, upcoming closely his the Latimer. the it Hebrew Atiya Fred reduce many which that the to people other's could so advisory each for to course, Persian, in seen teaching clear of could we'd in in were EC: Fortunately, and person night at I in one WILLIAM MULDER #6 was Atiya's the young kind man a personal I think I came trait that's to Lola ILola is much then on a I which as much to suppose we as a culture say, "No." shouldn't That see as blame it trait. correct. appreciate However, level whatever at for impossible it making this that me to clear so and maneuvering flattery of was It dinners. Atiya's of is that. much more culture? more direct. how can you direct, yes, I temperamentally-- [END think OF ILEE) TAPE] THIS IS OUR FOURTH INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM MULDER, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF ENGLISH AND TODAY IS MARCH 8, 1988. WE'RE RECORDING IN THE ECCLES ROOM OF THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY HISTORY ORAL COOLEY EVERETT THE OF PART IS THIS AND PROGRAM. [EVERETT THE SERIES.] EC: Bill, bit in Center, past in India--your editorship of the 1little your in memory establishing experience me to enjoyed Mormon teacher always go of teaching ideas, background in Sunday felt with presentation. the and topic subject, attempting It have was to an be I to I my result as Your whole of I the fledgling whatever, and be shape in encouraged also doing a a So lot particular enjoyed. bookish I felt prepared. myself as out discovered a to activity described 170 what groups found teaching to and had Let's whatever? priesthood, that and stand I as with your teaching? that and schools, a your missionary comfortable reading I'd as that suppose was than your central I little Review. classes, certainly a OF Intercultural of with new #7 Institute, events academic. into whatever suppose an the some some programs, exchanging stimulated that as about is other Humanities connection teaching at TAPE talked Studies there new we've role Western bit Are INTERVIEWER. activities American experiences. Well, THE interviews university The a IS your activities WM: COOLEY the about talk L. and So found I WILLIAM MULDER the life usual on. #7 of the mind far things one lists as I've some always kind "Now, of what I simply loved simply an that the One got time all what that 1little you the the same time, the board he and people he only because said of a that very it's 575! tiny man, morality with in of lot saying that of dixt. all recall one circle--a the circle tiny circle, small large area of inside represents notice he pointing I Now very 1little virgin area my old also limited a of class represents a was capable wide that know. was that a ideas. big that drew may perimeter a and was a as and Dear only with Then know be away know. with He'd sounds I mix get now the He'd was said some contact time. he circle around manner. out asked, influential geologist. so holiday, conscious inspirational on and large at activities, the and I'm it busman's most the filling and undergraduate River But put circle a the an the " could of he as when because how of Pack, Virgin that kinds on of classroom [laughter] don't I geology knew. hobbies?" than hobbies, occasion intellectual Frederick that recreation, any expression wonderful his for forever see. stimulating uncomfortable your was ignorance, from vita are though lessons felt more as you of the the area you walk come what perimeter. in you As WILLTAM MULDER you in #7 enlarge the contact know. He with says They know, the and all who the has stuck been know a more steady and more. professionals less to and less, become own so field Maybe of studies that that's I me what But council, for awareness studies a wide and eyes to is within my else. we or a more American result enjoyed in how the having had work to on a the lot enrich member things of in of involved and about participating as a to avoid what I've experience 172 more That that everything 1lucky committee, of pointed to topic into being aware more tried given of is professors, and feel example. curriculum, have I all wanting as more a me don't it that civilization led the unconsciously into affiliations. international So, led are not and I've things--certainly interdisciplinary honors on my he's accused thing shut experience. campus-wide honors I knows come don't they instruction, knowing American international Indian been what call and We've specialized that's broadly of you people he maybe you that what that voice one of diagram and course and more thinks little know, greatest little me, you aware who That with the most so what much why fellow knows of that are rest. lesson all that's humblest. someone perimeter the of that of the sort. relationship to WILLIAM MULDER things meant #7 outside coming of to disciplines. was their It gave of a a able to sense coulld s thi's orchestra lots to of other when the me, and for I this their of multi-dimensional of appreciation much was of of it, no interdepartmental but in kind of unless you and as It highly people. aspects why Not appreciated much a available. this E. convocation. those the has guess as horizons advantage fully in broaden instrument, be people into so take that humanities and campus to talk and flattered invite inject university university was to field, admire responsible and effort and would was come me department always College to technical in was Christiansen anybody, own appreciate I Engineering B. my on a everyone other way academic took part interdisciplinary things. BEC: It doesn't seem to compartmentalized particular emphasis I suppose college think or i your in my or research relation havelhany or or to I've their point is from, and of maybe 173 S veoulshave concentrated anything like on a this as teaching. my colleagues always view, it's in gotfen ‘character, appreciate coming or period department den!E BINFESSEhat yourself person for me, but where a I whatever along. They always'try their little to strength like in my WILLIAM MULDER own #7 teaching--when favorite writer person And or I and had period about in said, the teaching. Adamson the a and in Besides minds Don the caring with were of department them. I rigid, I've young at about national men stimulating In and we were that's promote akin here So of much that two been one talent the of felt and right recruiting 174 I that came that us when we was of did--back move on to-- working to earn our and they character-that Don, have set enrichments. along were there striving overcoming. gotten in, I Master's I great I've I to this, character the time as. were and that people--Jack in minds chairs, always of and teaching their famiiies, very hand of year each difficulties example. all see her that all took animated my certain same for felt to excited felt figure who to the was I in of the that terms a time, then we point close said so raised course as my [laughter] got [laughter] Walker and so girl with same we discussion high what's teaching. where a me invariably be the the felt while living, to one was in war, Ph.D. class identity have at the one That and degrees happen asks I've Melville." And I I Mr. that course, period Melville, achieved. attain student excitement "But from or recall talking a with eager and to Jack, wasn't nowadays. this We WILLIAM MULDER #7 couldn't have recruiting stood now they've at up that already outstanding point on cultivating some local community, it understood the was Jack a at Don and degree to the was department above Most of from outside. Berkeley, Utah third our the get an in hand, and all We've had Folland, Minnesota, Ph.D.s we've one--would 'is all I Irene 1L7/15) a a kind Harvard of sense, carried we our who people liberal of in sacrificing reason. a a Mormon a like us working think on as our until were a value The English department. faculty, came people. Neff graduates, but the faculty--Wisconsin, the means a professorship prestigious no as not were was someone nurture Harvard of in there's be employed be act several all by was department could most rest the have that should our department but from department assistant for come of to we because there to years we're course time the careers because And instructors, among degrees our and department Clapp who effort me, all Didn't the and part same people they've strength '‘the of their personnel a conscious instructors Ph.D.s. the professionally. and in Of community, bridge, " but kinds published, intent desire, the institutions. deliberate anything to institutions, inbred. over Sturges, the Bill The only years--now Slager, so two a and WILLIAM MULDER Steve #7 Tatum, but each has been valuable think that has been a own way. I of our department. chairmen, I there's sense think usually that EES I'm over change that, the and this department was he quite We've always had curriculum was respect in a as quiet otherwise, bit, Neff, very strength, and as and been in his any a the dues as great fortunate in did very that it I to dictator of the rotating chair, committees, relations committees. it for in as was normal a very looking far in on that time. a one the this who person, no shape as long mean should be helping but and 176 one advisory respected, he At a not? demanded--I venerable was a they out, serve who a active think experienced department. with student been person a part Clapp ever almost But carrying Dr. pay have the committees, concerned, for believe of had and campus a committees, faculty her rotation, very you of was not? changed chair period, head things policy been administration department, The we've the everyone to was or There's almost there on and choice. have his leadership. during in would Neff three-year later think excellent sure, time rank to clear or don't division a strength after went been of I having we sooner department chair. And in I got person thought chair till WILLIAM MULDER he EC: dropped. Was he [laughter] it like one was just notified any I #7 formal think process always deliberating of the and bother too regular on. a and change that time, it final illness, which 1is will left at go three into who have we levels degrees, and _then of people a 177 have $90,000 the incumbent a been chance the of long or got at her and her legacy, Rohrbaugh graduates high to leave, i in the We've a who promising cantiigolon who For degree call for of number retirement for had the her department what not her had were that. Rohrbaugh after teaching, teachers retreading Elsie for instance--was of had much we idea department. who of things swallow terms rank didn't But one to the the on, favorite in of ready so where in Snow long getting workings. had in aware and a without faculty not in Clapp and funding scholarships was in that this? the thesis simply serve her, I the of teaching, bless of occasion Dorothy death, a staffing now was while on he in gaining meetings thinking women who on about know down, in described promoted occupied department I was matter So much chair--I'm it a history he promotions. working discussed. had that was on in involved it goings class, voted professor school complete rand® service for for WILLIAM MULDER about #7 five years. These from about $1,500 to about Neff again, bless him, who was proud He was always maybe that way, the from was Gretchen she may still No, she died I see, but extension me which at living. and got using classes. to years Brown who his budget. could operate 50,000 legacy, Neff the scholar So then for all each there I Cary from that of in know a lot South. would to of These go on to instructors. professors, but they always was very young and coming so helpful in asking going. Sometimes that on so and Gretchen 157.8 seemed and always recall the department were text for the they the the perennial I were it doing they assistant assignments I still sort oar years was notion be compositions and since on the And of level. And things notes or way tightfisted, who a the Sherman on--well, she were their thought compare For any They pleasant. how a reading Elizabeth had very about campus lived retired, pulling I part on continued she were in, some graduate be who they so funding who Ph.D. Maybe the And all recently. never the is Horst work, women one run seemed department division. after active do the someone $3,000. return only left interest year, to scholarships we were Horst we would even we were that giving once in scolding our me WILLIAM MULDER gently #7 because quarter that quarter. her third read IBES Oh She yes. And she had And a usually didn't come quarter was selection that class said, in along because till some "Oh, the but second the third students we've in already of are for form kind once Hall, Building What Louie major was within go to was of the the and Sullivan schools the training into teaching. and of our Myrtle a stickler Brewster Ghiselin next she the That department Phil with in schools. and to went dean--saying tol remember involved the recall before become about Louis I I grammarian. grammarian, officed andienshave one for to a secondary closely convention. this much Sturges want class. quite very precisionist, eloquent about was the Irene who of and Ieghvesis waxing in complaining--he Spencer Park was responsible majors a grammar she do--worked largely was who what to able. and teaching did English her, English a continued very teacher. advanced Austin had Myrtle an from Myrtle freshman and taught that we my gentle teaching EC: taught discovered She very is, had this." But I I Myrtle down to something Lilstenialilsday semi-colon." in the 1like, StoMyrtie [laughter] Zucker? my dear 157.9 patron saints. He wrote on WILLIAM MULDER #7 my behalf when took a shine course and in to Virginia the at Hebrew. He the and a of time, we he Long ago in for majors classes their happened the late the comprehensive. the class He and off some exam. So Durham some concert or was remember. So of yes, time off I in to a our the have 180 I at so down to during my And to that exam for remember had at wrote he his who that special home. they went that mock in his grads previous had interests. of time. preparation from own the the while we he of interested example, very learn One exam out and to departmental mock members He quarter was letters for lecture. sessions. class took a me and a that introduce come was, had in pupil once other, always I to good goodies feeding one a were Reynolds occasion us reading his were I gave left Louis the we one Scowcroft, Dick Harvard On Wetzel comprehensive. that helpful, and students Lee have the and Ethel to like over Hector tutorial '30s, Louis mentioned homes to called from have where have He his take would Harvard. taking had office to sophomore asked he go a giving even opened was may I my Era to Frobes, time would students I group. one Ethel I Parsons Improvement lunch applied when 1lit. occasion thought first me world class--quite on I to gone Marsden class, feelings if I for WILLIAM MULDER Louis. the It end unless was that you him, being said Louis was came what about of #7 to his You But course, just was unkind, so fully ask to a say on occasion, the ground was a with fine much, but was or more name, source, an and one of you have I breadth. more author, these He Louis didn't someone gospel 181 to or would into because he publish words and intellectuals father used to was a show us atmosphere. So a establishing was and breadth, He'd Louis. to I'd there who anyone of know me. himself never His referred a That himself true than kill Ethel for Again, intelligently were and did know. that person to He lose students thesis," the volumes. of his feeling Philadelphia. wanted I a again, kind the so's to gave driving himself. ideas, in certainly a of just nuances [chuckle] He of was you'd want true. of the or thesis, and had handbound was model. read he a is so writer us--bookish handmade, this on he it." work through working very partly "Louis sensitive you teach written candidate bookbinder to side capture "If teacher precious teaching said, perhaps the appreciation his Louis but seeing very was how to toward effective the had and department very was, really it a the understand character patience. not erudition matters. Louis around in drop class, immediately a WILLIAM MULDER want to #7 look bought. I classes. It survey of and He just were old me the opening must have been of is too in language sitting moments, broad with So with classes with Louis thought he'd lost class, first with the came to so that as S what kind before that's appreciate silent of going pleasant. turn you know in the the and I of I Shad s forever) one of the great few and i nim5ind e back (I'd had and in he that experiences mentor--someone person and as a face mission, me the recall for his of a unabridged stunned my said, there's reconnection on the language And across He for history s TR we library--the see--a 182 fact, hesitantly, but to period English print exactlyd You the might very his period. room--in the stretching sight mentor. of for of English in be introductory illustrations." just grin Rt Thatlst [laughter] fine devoted there early we obvious, very wholly said the table--very where I one detailed not the could Library in the rooms history And perhaps dictionary Sayanop know a form?" in a they session around around if Everyman's the small anyone section Louis the English, compact yeah, looking Library story English on, of see 1literature, were one "Does "This an we Thomas to or recall asked, in long up English said, in things Introduced example. one, those scholar. that you WILLIAM EC: MULDER What about classes I #7 with never than Brewster about of a to some, conference Brews. He and through a can for brought of and encounter when place to an and a dozen have I've never luster to the writer's genuinely was ran for in awe when the judge, poem, a and the very fond of good a refinements-- agony as the he was as and and but someone poet, I still contest awarded of the as think admired. was editor moves searching, Brews had than thread, in literary he much involuted department to the very be department in get more, heck more So to or his respected about 183 and conference, English certain a losing word. the to qualification right the or is of We're not seemed somewhat come was He person easy. he name--more aware years painful that came a easy thought be our Brews ever a created always very lupen W generally which seem was fully had was that whose cqualification Annex he past statement, searching you presence. was I been He of eccentricities one Brews', the I the told His no founder but not has I'm teacher. who kind colleagues, Bruce. there's a that in relationship and did Brews. years. did However, peers from else, twenty-five know. of class anything writer's Now him? took eccentric Ghiselin? One up at for first Pen WILLIAM MULDER refused I to think the #7 publish it did tradition Pen found readers why knew that he he to and judgment, that here appreciated for upset. buildings Oh Bill, --from as I I up was on bulldog. was left very the in asked was I me was, and Don't whether too, wanted then saying that on his needed recall that to I and that I the recall reflection work the that rejected a or of upset. objections, recall, Brewster Ghiselin nothing to much of he to was once sweep do was very compromising and when away the buildings and in to be as the after to encounter to birds' So I tenacious shortly had explain grounds. him that nests didn't I I down. find him situation. compromising. 184 can I washing that that. library and try with in Brews the [chuckle] This not involved library. charge here he's been it Christ editors somewhat literary grounds arrived .No, I of nests-- a had a what And and swallows' is profane. obnoxious. had It was thought he their right. the guess poem to not very I it image that piece me. object the office so's that editors the my was be EC:S came to with The find into so grounds Christianity obnoxious. began this BEE: of coming know on something would Brews it He's a man of austere WILLIAM MULDER #7 ideas, attitudes, angels in worked with the us to Pen of editors well- some included recall--Stegner don't DeVoto--I we centennial, the the they So lead might that the Mentioning marking and Pen of difficult. be University, side Brodie-- possibly, EES 1950, writers, Utah known In centennial a issued the people. episode the of founding the on can he but an of me usually interesting very freedom. academic is causes, his reminds Pen and Fawn Brodie? Dale Dale Morgan and from Logan Allred, historical at that pretty writer well-known and edition was She name? which News, Deseret the the under came Sunday one McConkie--on Bruce of think I surveillance a Sunday a had time was Well, romances. her what become had and of Morgan? morning-- EC? 1is This side and Mulder of two talking we're of publication the celebration of --lambasting to taste editors the a It took these a about Pen of anti-Mormon bad-tempered was the fourth Dr. interview with little problem centennial the during in University. the include our TAPE] OF ONE SIDE OF [END young editorial, people 185 to the Pen for bad their articles and writers. on the front and task in a very It page. vicious WILLIAM MULDER way, I #7 thought. magazine that University. because sat the it were published a piece an open number of Regents me and on he and felt out that who I the so had president of I the begged regrets that the expressing this. Yeah. And A. After I gave Ray my and on it, Deseret News in never Reynolds 186 came lecture, the From that of it and Albert Homer its so Olpin's expressed these the Smith, Ray in to there of to on Board one acted down letter addressed University. the sent from or had I a rights, up and Chronicle to George I Apparently the tone came but News getting to the that used. think campus, forgiveness letters I statement church, and they masterpiece." this in I've campus. matters learned office are "A Mormons. the secretary else flag to recall was set argument on. I with, appreciated and There them. the motivated, that on campus red that letter 1letters, something starting faculty, of his letter a of the and voice of kind of open on celebrate about agitated Sorensen, University EC: was a said an 1lots Parry forth had so attack to was Chronicle--our there from he wrote said--well, to DeVoto never and frontal only particular was down a sought what the I was See, of forgotten Well, It this his way. archives editors. Durham had a WILLIAM MULDER little #7 reception Olpin were people, night there, and I would means. yourself to read you did." with with every of the faculty about umbrella And it always its seems like source problems, the only difficulty WM: Fred to and to be school defend in I the "Here and do I've had in on. But firm on I think the right responsibly protected an think it in by that David the where experience of some is for the students told Gardner issue Chronicle calls of interview, the you and right around were feel files paper--the turned Did express said, that speaking irritation Emery my so "You didn't Homer very recalls you on 1is said, no freedom. the of and that "By to he projects stood it He and to said said, it." back he Chronicle. was go incident the I has subject academic publish. to I He Mrs. university what And and of said all. history," of a he some when administration his with Mormon if history at me administration class EC: on number about And this stimulated a embarrassment. right something--go mind any President Olpin minute as have Dr. a uncomfortable you house. quite asked worry your his and cause Don't have at of told there to some me that was any publication of this time to of in when active? the Publications 187 Council from time, WILLIAM MULDER and #7 it's possible irritate some [chuckle] the that editor, not I are don't to wrote a understood freedom the the fully the meant and the interesting faculty other have protection and in that citizen there the they to is an an association, cannot greater not their use responsibility Modern as because is but who of what and makes citizens, in the any a our way all additional citizen that situation restraints profession, as than one california, freedom, expect forum the anything process that to Gardner, in themselves and should added fact, of is scenes, been oath limits public exploit In medical do, has political comport the Now 1loyalty it course behind to time. letters of university distinction to citizens on the whether forum, encouraging. on newspaper all recall, goes and a public the the and something, don't that that book the or I protective campus always run all recall a of is whatever. privy but part There ads for might protection on campus, a as that professional. of belonging Language Association That is, the faculty not an extra or to the the-- AMA? --the AMA, the lawyers. addiltionall "responsibility, privileges, but rather 188 an extra set of have an set of restraints. WILLIAM MULDER #7 if they And operated obligations, citizen all; outside the as exploits quective maybe and 1like a of not an my experience strong need that might is fashion. or and not a of that faculty worry at that a peddle in 1little bit ward and It Jjust versa. place. academic as to Mormon vice and be a So administration, defense those presented It's literature time not situation to the Erust they coming appropriate complete own with classroom complaint balanced with the classroom his their is this of Catholics distributing in classroom, cause conviction accordance academic the only professor some both in throughout there has been freedom in the understood their obligations. EC: As far as you incident defend are where one of aware, there's the President the faculty been had no to members particular speak in out the to English department? I don't recall. but not on one might the call one's with affect the course the think that grounds of professional attitude and I of the 189 was academic There so considered was other, there turpitude. moral conduct personal up I still a freedom but what a time when was intimately bound one would career that think they country as dismissal, a do. whole But is of much WILLIAM MULDER more #7 lenient does not toward interfere professional But there would E€? I cause remember I for against it?," a a wunclear. you defense of of moral it one's of it. turpitude should care be David for it or since it there Bill, some about presidents, some of about their Olpin? We've academic they code, Are make, the Ray we when [laughter] to president, A. once, [laughter] would as with of faculty turpitude, outstanding beginning as anything senate the administrators, found case "Well, moral effectiveness you when long discharge think faculty said, that chief don't rewriting little comments the As dismissal. the think, once they time in Bennett was a conduct. with duty, was be were, private freedom the our their things that administrations, talked and about the his faculty generally. I do think beginnings indeed EC: Not it's of a under university, only understood the OFf that cofirse, nature what also happened we but and but campus, a as times, learning Olpin that the we got foundations the were laid. Astaninstittution.' the Ray the 190 of an future institution. an as that's to the have institution demanded product man a of of of who higher it and WILLIAM MULDER worked #7 effectively organizations. his and so most of these This is the getting of put worked ever course the of do. could in believe that to comes get things the arm in the who and as really own I look pushed ROt that to harder, office was very and done had self- what problem. ego has anything to tremendous power aren't going tend I might funds presidents Ray things back, of wvision an does that then first me he'd case has sometimes of self, think research word. what my of and All and Olpin's right of of on. way, seemed without and in what so I run something was and seemed he home coordinate that the to and was sense a See, I'd on and dancers, terms it the a status led in not anyone with if had There self-effacing, of and he out mechanism know himself done. a ballet, ballet? musicians, I who suppose I But of arts, beginning. faculty build That's conscience the national television, became working thereafter Now, the and public symphony, Christensen to established. he in So simply in the place shot Carl serving. of them since of university and in research. had The with faculty, state performing activities space bringing the on. relationship this of support Rehearsal the introduction encouragement symphony EEs His with I think have be to a very number succeeded. WILLIAM MULDER #7 I always But knowledge of how pretend otherwise. Olpin's administration, in faculty go to so to ironic tell him I 1little when to you acquisition -of death had think was property not been biography of the those life that's if submitted "Abravanel of not a the as He a a he was able say to "I'm [laughter] had who a bit done. to do expansion disappointment to that wanted series Olpin Ray Olpin he history completed. and in in of the till his achievements. greatest the early people what the to says, irritate found be $30,000 go." see for of commissioned story pieces kinds the that what beings A. he better to to TA hear such," the would offered often able it I been he'd human carping and and think university--all I he'd suppose, as time tendency be are one such patience I foolish "Next think that not and that head was we recall so, had And I and there Yes, how meeting But from, imperfect and ponderous, EC: away anyway, going EC: shied do of it. so works see that failures on the part So I believe on the to will manuscript in much years life. was eventually think bits and Durham has he calls the the story, that appear Lowell what I in Years." Yes. And that I'm sure will 1592 tell much of WILLIAM MULDER side #7 of Emery A. Ray's hearty executive senate, his and a if to outspoken, committee of powerhouse. personal damn accomplishment. he carry behavior. offended a big with senate, the was He always working the Fred I very found him on institutional the University unconventional wouldn't--didn't anybody, Fred but he had load at a in give the a ability very critical time. EC: It may be times, the but of keeping his And in the people this had Tom in that wave length as these them. '60s and anything I I'm Now, James to say about his on, of I on the during think credited him campus a It He sort sort you were as 193 was knew '70s any with because were that in in our president? the to a run handle on every kind could its same of hardly course. administration. India Do on hard you to has of president how There's administration. role vice of and plague fortunate that academic wonder. air, been Fletcher's so level students a about. aware product activities have low time. It's we've think and '70s--early the a student articulate at do a of students. very in of at King infection sort interviews unrest a was Vietnam in interest we he defense of institution. ECS that his unrest number of also you a good have part of anything WILLIAM WM: I MULDER knew #7 Jim Iwasfat Fletcher Harvard." was Bob, at about the the boast School even lot here he person uneasy in wanting as to but library about brief a the began rounds good the EoliER very agony, but with When I he first "The Advancement the fifteenth it school, because compact information gave about 194 the that anniversary him the a himself native lot recent of Jim holding that he was campus, of me not Well, I a saw EthatiENhad Learning, of to of bookil e a be, always on seemed seemed officers arrived tof pushy, could sense be appearance kind top to improved Fletcher. his got alcopy celebrated Jim it he a Sunday He last him, as EhatheNget edited, his I wonderfully he's pointed much meetings. listener. in a talents. think collogquialism, is departmental I even and expressionlthat going those and not a it there seemed but and Mormon in he just sponsored prolong off all think teacher, person, power, speaking. regard, the getting brain I the pupils cordial, MIT back at my of bright all met one at and were School hiding when that when was his Jr., We very a student Sunday was such displaying congenial a Always humble, a Harvey, time. was Jim class. truly not I was brothers, same that he In''fact Fletcher congregation. can when which " the graduate information-history of the WILLIAM MULDER institution, and kind that of There not IEER #7 mind were have Aloof. much of. He's build on that went the Se to not NASA he a third second and he recall the line of of of number wondered on EES had and so the situation. who, Fletcher, an in he in, his i Gardner, letter, ShadiEolsmiilie would my Jim what do Gardner? L)) for you on of S whie were ngsiT: in renewed for a third and I your .third couldn't ar il EEille and go on Wbl S and T here council what--indeterminate to back that leave? have that institution. a This remember away years He went he while to the fact absence--we "For for He's recognition institutional post his the our on. leave type. fromihimi of stay the him-- uncle's, and on [laughter] asking did continued clear Utah, the leave." years then, to felt his is leave us the think, outgoing put on I has that--? on year's from [laughter] David grasp certainly Ray renewed Jim leave a but made wanted foreve i And thought he recallliFatlllette r They for A. that year But uncle's--pressed India. final certainly ye sl requested Jim word that impact e ech with be that. department the his on quickly our himself, foundations he in rapport He's there. appreciated could those Would Sort he to he NASA. put a limit [laugh] say about David I WILLIAM WM: MULDER #7 David Gardner self, and who a had and who terms his of feet. very trap among the I his He steel of Board when something College I Elizabeth met I interviews. Oh and let when I of he like stood meetings me for back up they that on. summer Teachers, got a a call minute. came for committee. search the a out so one I when for and ran. on nothing was Berkeley Gardner member it Program campus thinking and that Education a was at No, on institutions Summer Mrs. is, but Regents of gun and yes. Okay. of the priorities that, sure was Haglund. Gardner methodical at other of I in the I'm those most prose, and presidents Gardner good by the fastest of Someone what a the the sense guided ability--that about their in awfully participating from EC: verbal strong administrator. determine Probably was very strictly those closing, in met was pursue inspiring ability and fashion. a public would then with shrewd principles dedicated in someone very principles, were is So him that's compared by impressed reading, wand ability to moment for his with range I what come up met him. all the of this with crisp 196 and an got kind his was I of range steel of answers, then impression and others, interests, call reflection, I ¢trap taking saying a very WILLTAM MULDER #7 positively--he sentence saying named that at the community president some help because would have He a lot things--see, president any retirement, el that commencement I'd public So that she large very it said, speak that what In" at various to "call ask on David was on We cordial. here me there office It were two on their L)/ report again the of did. campus--forgot frank minds. Olpin's other I down people, And and not I'd the called and on so the eye, Elizabeth's Gardner," sat in piece these the Wef L hils piece the he the to bulletins, was do a close caught to of appeared things, that learning her was--very felt then he's matter. occasien that him and this the Ehe and relations. of led are done ent find number written She duties, in a something program, advancement and S and s was Foundations for I'd charge speaking, help done in to his public vice extension. office upon has the California our of Elizabeth of our every Gardner one of I'd university on of some knew David now enters 1like who and is with from that asked he do much Elizabeth, reign, know has as to very "The call education--sort the to you positive, a University said going very Okay, president. presidents of always positive. Haglund been was things. He had which a hall immediately afraid heard to that WILLTIAM MULDER David #7 was Reagan quite conservative, the administration--Reagan was able to get more for education. So discover that Society, Professor interested EE€2 money What was He at write a he revision and working to because that the focus ideas, this, was a and was else YIf John I Birch think I'd be so we [laughter] so at ideas We then that meet person and it, if he'd ask before whatever for do We'd was what him, time to would that?" 198 say, And would "Yes, then theme and I'd would was for a would sandwich, the have whom occasion office, Gardner's possible guess wonderful a over consider Elizabeth a Elizabeth it in be on there because stage about to someone to best Gardner writer, proved the Sometimes wholly it snack. and and I about something up that, recommendation, would Well, at Berkeley, and 1like on. was how 1laughed speech didn't coming and the anyone the don't you." doing some first on. of I Elizabeth's little a that's of write arrange than half-jocularly, He relationship had and was draft. anything I I feed up cause Gardner, that. needed could during governor--who member with man reaction? what he his said a working strength what he in 1laughed the I you're his reviewed for one occasion we might some great how about have to go WILLIAM MULDER home #7 and burn shape this, pulse of how or establish some that in Governors' as all I August recall. these Greg Thompson they afé It was in that I in passed the speaking asks for in humility he dealt or found splicing I and think that myself him. And 1£9.9 I see or could David thinking there to to got say was like were Salt was. The copies to his 99 file. because I insensitively a nice another, whatever, about in they're into up thing the although patience work got them papers; go so and I got give rather one from sensitive pretty main, I'd tone not it to you an address I've my and a held going probably should to and I'm with script, where They moving 1like just talks, muster SomehowI forgot the me assignment being president's cutting was going transitions. transition then was he sometimes certain he speeches. exercise that with But mine. an felt of the first to insert the very how feel establish Conference, when would The I to credited reading Conference about and I opening, just focus. Economic of percent not think together, because very Economic Governors' of was and Elizabeth up the oil it occasion. at Gardner Lake, put Gardner anecdote was midnight to that loosening that the very him, all but something knocked that kind 90 out. percent pleased. but kinds not of WILLIAM MULDER #7 occasions for always which the talks. entrelinbusand commencement from a a big Dixie. so for even find RSN J. who wonderful And one speak is a of to the and of teo de, to into things a school, came preparing such grandfather's bishops about connection, but family Gardner's first course high Dixie--his goes the the things, also down the and you Club and there. history and Snow-- honors told him established was in when San he was the what down at to their BYU's "Last conferences a a there. invited Francisco for educational and an variety students. Quite continue throughout see. relationship this too, something the to talk things Bohemian series talk Georgean, this big Lecture" honors St. rapport and Did of Gardner retreat, of what went brief always < --R. EC? the in something, talk, daughter's talk interesting established do difficult his suggest I were teo reunion To to breakfast net diaries--Robert--one I'd assigned These talk speech, So was faculty commencement Rotary, I his administration? It continued to India '73, to for '79 through the was his second six or 200 administration time seven in years, '79, and until so from even I went '72, during WILLIAM MULDER the in #7 three '74, months I that continued Halghend wanted. Lecture" while certainly course hardly although to I was feed in was in India whatever recall an knew people somehow for in as it writing activity consultant Elizabeth for the So I was the has and doing department and "Last that activity, that the a was Hyderabad. extraordinary anyone certain account to I been I did. year's ‘of this, I had work. [laughter] E€: Were or you was Most so of I given this that already any just time had time off to do this sort of thing a--? I was director some time [END OF 201 off-- TAPE] of graduate studies, THIS IS TAPE TWO OF OUR FOURTH INTERVIEW WITH DR. WILLIAM MULDER, AND TODAY IS MARCH 8, 1988 AND THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM. [EVERETT L. COOLEY IS THE INTERVIEWER. TAPE #8 OF THE SERIES.] EC: Dr. Mulder is talking about his mention that That's right. I should started out dollars for whatever assignment we realized that then two at the count on. And could person it, people whom behind the nominated when enabled it and refuse I respected scenes. to me it be came think I on the to 202 way a such in couched always appreciative always because in an Tanner the three it was which was was criticism one a level Lecture nominations very relations no that's I that that at a adding her effective possibly given and move to me a item public ideal an is She too. pleasant, that Elizabeth with working there think fixed a was It time. welcome of I like something or when or two salary. university my month a hundred very and to amount fixed hundred for notion the at arrived we so together, times come there'd maybe that but month, off completed, just were time Chimilcitt L presentation a or talk a be wouldn't no couple a had I there got feels adding Elizabeth with I N allretaline s got T butaN EarsRthilsSTES was with Gardner. David and experiences and why could with yet David Committee, for the WILLIAM MULDER distinguished teaching process the with within two doubt this been doing Oh to way so of I the is a the college, Gardner, him thanking be and to with got to first going worked happened the which led Bill I him for year John had no maybe to what nomination the whole he's that Hope vyear, Franklin campus-- yes. -—-got He an honorary spoke church the was Deseret and J. had served D. John Hope Hope in degree day News that put Williams it and new Board and I'd been India joked as he and in gave a talk. policy for had a and It's interesting relationship with with her, we all the 203 meet LDS Durham him. Homer Scholarships seminars on John Phi Beta the other. each knew with with We We said, Hetindild SEllaughterii Presidency First through exchange. have you Elizabeth and Homer [laughter] plane. the what to served arrival.' pleasant Homer down Foreign Lad the meet to headline. several so S heraldsiayour get of him, off a went J.D. with came in I the council interview then the on Kappa actually and announced. The nphbHist EC: one and That names having was award, department three by feel came EG@: or that 1977. EC: #8 I was Haglund. asking in say to her did I to your an comment WILLIAM MULDER upon #8 the styles she worked of David welfare took to the people I think the with. Gardner of the pains work of point perhaps Gardner with people maybe did, legislature, in that not spite so James in on. Fletcher the the the open was able quite like in successful what in Elizabeth behind, very of perceived interested around, was administrations public and out but and more public out the general being general to David as in contact with general the perception was. True. Oh, partial, in our very his way any in of EEs holding sure effective. of that these Roy that I that are each can't a often Cowles's president think of president administrations. very himself It's appointment any widely was a kind action. Yes. Couldn't ECE been I'm difficulties any acknowledged impressions partial. has bumbling, created public have been that we've appeared after di€ls in Chase pluralistic the society our presidencies I and search, think made here. letters 204 his But Vrecentily ‘fact + it's ‘fair--int paper--the Peterson So, people. excellent had that. national to subject thinkis Bolliyour than more expect to statement there has editor the about been a some WILLIAM MULDER #8 criticism Mormon that at committee. in selection the couldn't the all number it fact the that they--all have Mormon wasn't very was when the Ehe Weber if you Fletcher strength outsider, not. get and if Although he's I all them--no, they but backgrounds a even was I don't ST going to I Mormon mediate it as that that's think all what might I ‘the dare be sfaculty a Mormon. Gardner a way of that an a an outsider, so much and source in depends fieople Smean*unthoughit it's perceived 205 fthat of who were meets. of are, the know council dean Brady They ‘part of as of largel kind think one time. course, they example. guy. "by " a Peterson because a played Perhaps impressive institutional the part. come course through), " reactiontof But on think? did that Of of Mormon backgrounds, later State ‘uncritilcaly, well good He school--very people. be, a see. during impressive a apparent. Gardner of a religion of did he's served you any them you you do when been has Mormon interviewed would played were president saysthat extent with business felt Now president, it speak has been James became a to always what of James--exactly, be To have of though he University. candidates couldn't In see has There the search I right president. president EC: what could on the WILLIAM MULDER climate #8 of the loosening of mythology up to that of the the That's their children Well, young it's not of at people of them. Indeed local didactic, Jln condescension. You Uh of the of the if they are that the Petersons That is--well, Chase in Grethe, and with every at all. become so with being a have bit come is there them. bless Well good. va @ isk L attitudes. sthat for influence an are of of téking compromising risk Zion. which sure are have the the years thinking run of of I'm but Peterson--we your in are kids, go sense age conviction Mormon that lose instead within. may they impilticd) now, U. searching Chase that that feel the a You family Those save of you themselves. feeling help to the casualty time, Chase always and sensitivities--never the something They that hill to getting institution. That's going within like aware the realignments only youngster on we're There's godless the find adjustments, back a are partly exploration, And as sense. who surely attitude. U the people place and institution faith. Y. moment, Fiof Kind notice? huh. This is a moment want doing. They bit to are here, subtle disparage doing and what a marvelous 206 I Chase job, wouldn't and but Grethe there a for are is a WILLIAM MULDER kind #8 of still air of disn't bringers of Ehinkiai SN or as thing. William a that of they and all a wonderful example. an but I any house that family might taking on at the needn't say I've always get away that's [laugh] » our encourage, and and can't I informal goes They example, gracious, that--well, great a native but activities, thé a from lived in feel somewhat know Chase is all of University, What Harvard, Cambridge, some back what do would people the look New compelling. very of and born, upon you you and career your your consider 1like your to be for? remembered is you I Logan son, to about when achievement? trait. formative, very talked we've England exposure be can at New and the but England This kind possible, as theirs, yes. that, major home are wildening as very Scandinavian here the it they of Windeed that [laughter] There's Bill, activity tol at and disciplines, James's elect. every be, the there feeling to culture among 1s them local hospitality, about It's found EC: and the ought gatherings much University Yes, light, moving part EC: it Their seminars, the where on contributing® horizons. their judgment a painful question 207 because I probably WILLIAM MULDER #8 remember the I what's history should it's I when have I promoting So the American ripple its effect. scholérs, stillliNget its an in said world experience satisfaction Certainly most and teaching when myself had when we I've been I and go them, back and responsible It the for. o the hear 208 much of vyes, from list number of didn't as But I S e may third I think greatest the classroom. the are of Indian that related to I astonish M.A. theses, theses. of has S thatt too, important. worries had and So in to celebrate thilsor family, the I I American '89, still most over So, has (The will in direction the the is, that there come has hours coin achievement, personal for and strong. very been of I'm out. India interview. earlier personal the on And together--devoted requesitsi impact it India, I time. Snow. when that institution has greatest of in relations. have the side in anniversary good Erastus carried is written Gardner's projects, all Center) have acknowledgements absence studies continued had have eight The Research it's those my of these other twenty-fifth yes, to should during life see blame years--about Studies the should to undone. the a written really I University contributed who guess achieved. the have I've one the of painful what not Ph.D. know theses I knew that so WILLITAM MULDER #8 much. I vital activity with don't that them would Humanities hours the better than ditches. of de That was a force. but Persian, devoted publications producing good literary realize while to that. Among It colleagues like have the on books Fitzgerald, not Mormons 209 higher been and For to Swilth a kind help get a know [laugh] or number of visibility. My they as should Eble, Ken like both with American didn't numerous of work, I as been digging was enough has much that studies still and Studies. stimulating not writing or Hebrew, or very a endless did I to love, for T thing. Turkish, was figures that ‘Ehat of Next Western store informed kind it have be to was or think I when I you'd That's 1Institute felt as the press. intercultural that Arabic, of seemed The to Intercultural il very proofreading grocery for a own. of and was friendships their labor the the it course given a through of of manuscripts Center and on, years ‘studiesi grants, years careers long time life-long find keeping the the gone thing and at have Establishing tour word But the authority. the I be WAmeriican - some on to reading seeing Ehe who to, but established Review. of Studies more, and students expect be any at hands education, Twain, terribly Homeward who once, books Howells. productive. to Zion were WILLIAM MULDER in the making, how controls one's life. that has exhaustive more and It seems I they teaching activities. Oh that's yeah, Whereas so publications involved I guess my and in, I in was immigrant Maybe me it put because from a more that slightly Would that authors, and on my and print. fine a kind fact, of been you to Ken to your Eble's what that's piece. 210 in Mormon he was so much, could deal withdrawal, of Reynolds thirty helping with lloss lecture ago. o £ has notable years it spiritually, S witthout W the history, background. understanding one the I but my perhaps Now do. books interest the so movement, has I classroom. it, In than two related on whole tremendous 1like perspective the undertake true. directly to were two a true? objectifying went those related be that of is these only 1like to easily No pressure toll of contributions very The way enhanced, A courage background, was I in the capitalizing appreciation. still lacked other the the maybe quite many of and Bill, were project done, w;ite me, preoccupations. a cost projects. people to mention, The be that some obsessive completely to book-length now, EEs were about so EE€: they question project BES #8 been small which is ; WILLIAM EES MULDER Still #8 in print, you see. Yes. So, a by bit of saying the feshasn't good. quality been Among al the printings, the rationalization and University active day, and heck I a let, went then number Nebraska was said, reprinting of a here are 1like level. quality three I carries Rich some think it Howe Stegner's is hard-cover paperback. doing Wally myself high the longer to a but in no console at through talking "You I remained Mormons of 1list. has here, as an the other very good Gathering of Zion.v EE: Sure. T saild, status ltVoull of Among alrgooditene think, the to as tol the Mormons Zion oughEME o Mormons bEingh only as has the not major their been footnote. what the of being instigation have had ask a a more hand a or in as it to teach the in 211 be Nlcontinues), ik the And in it has to write service of others, Had I of the many a been in often at and to I can't been more development. existence. of Homeward history appears world views and institutional satisfying might outsider unfolded. wonderful able this St of superseded and thelNcopyirighit because source history migration, terms is whatis ocut W againa? Scandinavian So findiout WILLIAM MULDER #8 ambitious, national the I might attention. American Language on is satisfying One thing feel my Well, led were culture pointed now to erudite to were that had back did in four on with circle of a been has old, downright mystical were we folk treatment 202 to We an superstition and and in, a at look a we institution, the accommodate possible, talk background. taking as and to hungry common experience able you others and Madsen, Brig willy-nilly up grown do what McMurrin Sterling our in Swearing the successeé? its that involvement and group that were we when campus, on "intellectuals," Catholic the from I for your is freedom, realization centuries spectrum And it so about you Read, we Modern 1level mostly, of committee a Waldemer quote, all years. broadening with things about the look acquaintance our to three more secretary I achievements, Tanner, Obert of service here rise gave its were Section ask to group 1little What the national of academic about Elders. as got career. meant I that selection intellectual very a serve the kind things about Again, acquaintances, in for at a satisfaction. talking did Fulbright studies This done Literature the American EC: I Association serve years. have to we broad the most felt that WILLIAM MULDER there #8 1is a mandate exploration. apology or defense along. So us it was the a name we or speculations, wanted attack, fresh very of Mormon doctrine was not but an insights informal "Swearing doctrinal exchange should they gathering. Elders." for of come Somebody That's comic. irreverence. suggested It Yes. It suggested never anything the same privilege 0ld once Thomas when And then We I McMurrin officially accorded large the Theatre in think Joseph That of is the gathering session, Union a itself other the very a had you we met Building, Smith and creation, and Fielding it? McConkie, Melvin or room one then accorded. confrontational most our in was McConkie, think Library. and upstairs, I in Little the in recall, I as met, we were interests academic with group you were We a If considering society any coffee, it. got Swearing the University about we Mormons. hot The say to had time "elders," drink Mormon. cold-coffee a same cold-coffee didn't but the as us called Coke, drank at term Mormon They Elders. were iconoclasm sound good EEs what ideas, gave EC: And within Cook and yes. their spoke I've view forgotten 213 who of else. But it was WILLIAM MULDER #8 cllear R thainkss there was an McMurrind that I versus, because apostate group, discussion visitors E€: the a wondered East was but felt was we an Temple this It a it, South whether group. ourselves, come call anxiety renegade might we 47 greatest among who at that essentially shall It's they succinctly, chasm, what mind-set. think expressed it unbridgeable fundamentalist evolutionary puts or was not an just latched onto along. Yes. We had the a DeVoto lounge of gathering. public. from It the Logan the old was those a from the that kind of strict and you expense. You were far out in I by You cracked Jjokes acknowledged terms 214 of your was as Snell, as were at to one break being And well in each thinking. a Mormon Mormonism. emotional you up so-called wanted of a come there Heber who felt draw would the in quite certain Snell, an was to think addressed was talked That People Logan. like He effort fundamentalism gathering company, no theologians support. intellectual Building. sponsored that old talked. core. from not he was that person grand away Union down Elders, Well, yeah, it Jjust conference, issues. little Oh Mostly Y--some Swearing of once. as good other's maybe Well, there a WILLIAM MULDER was #8 a psychologist Wilford great times realize I crankiness without the collection to any being made at Y. Poulson. Poulson, or down it get sense beans was Mormoniana just an expressed. of critical. any of anyone So as about It say, this so occasion was looking I and the and for good over on. some fellowship our shoulder University it At was very never short- lived. How I long did don't it think Larson who involved. continue? more went up We simply little I were once '53, we got list grew sent out very So and by '54. to a list as the so is name He be was sort of was of the people who went mimeographed coming of a also meetings simple the There Larson. asked the sociologist a year. Idaho--Herb announcements. was There a and and interested, on. to Sterling correspondents, were than to town. Christensen, Harold. EE2 Harold he Well, yeah. Christensen, think fellow, young us. A Tom Blakely. Tom Blakely Sunstone, I came. and has he Nelson Lawry may have met with Blakely--7? written comes 215 an as account close to that anyone appeared to in giving WILLIAM us EC: MULDER a #8 history. What about There were paper or point, the no--. two. Well, George for came A it. they there Arrington Mormon that lot's ever may Elsworth, called prospectus of Were Leonard and publication BES papers? in have and of file happened I been a I at a still one modest have somewhere. since, formal talked issuing Studies. my assembled? the Nothing obviously. Sure. The founding its symposium. Was the Woodbury INdeont I Dialogue group in an the '60s. outgrowth of Sunstone and this? ENthinkSsol. or biologist The name. another mentioned you Elders? Swearing the of demise the after on carrying were they perhaps thought Now of botanist--Woodbury. Angus Woodbury. older generation find happy to about our of roots. Mormonism Mormon suggest in or Theology, the kind than of two titles thinking 2116 I that so curiosity this Theological Philosophical the were they think a of were Poulson generation Sterling's the I and us, younger a and Angus and Snell See, Angus. Foundations Foundations of mixed up, often was get going on. It WILLIAM MULDER was an #8 effort thinking, EERRWa S gathering, and that night in that nobody were mind-sets of Not that Y it would was that probably EC: of confrontation was when far other to a as far I'm it was clear that here one no apart, point different administration the would have aware, we banned been inimical as that at the of all. much never were down at because once, oppositional. and It been like campus--nothing have of clear quite was there meeting people payers. tithe Smith this was standard Bill, gave very, of Mormon, Book the believe didn't Joseph EE: no [laughter] Yes. or was kind so as on most faithful weren't There positions, Sterling far would sense no There too. simply as of. viewed be theological tolerance. meet that where the budge the as As couldn't we told to problems that. of Theatre were aware I'm kind Little it no concerned? to only that to ve ry Sl opportunistich convert was historical, going saw caused closer the was We view. This respectability a i the to going was give sociological, agenda. EES to in of Mormon, Book the radical, very a rude the so account obviously departure from belief. we're just about to 217 run out of tape. Are there WILLIAM MULDER some #8 things series of Well, I EC: here Perhaps 1lot simply this not will say in Well, that there's always avid what way, in time has poured thought conclusion to this you've to humility, the back about you given to into for get my this. memory years. to work on your [laugh] to I'm Ericksen's the prompt Bill. the read world having false or histories my own Jay would not. and have Jennings Although memoirs, to Olson say. I By review memoir. Good. Sce A S after and B @ a autobiography, wonder to interviews? I've I'm EC: like appreciate Sitting that you'd AN Ehetwar, Jay was his or '47, so A S SIS EAR CER CORSE I ST Cit s it sathintalcllasstofSESNENELIclksents reader. Well. '46 SN very interesting. [END OF 218 TAPE]