Jack Goodman, Salt Lake City, Utah: an interview by Tim Larson and Roy Gibson

Transcript (171 pages) of interview by Tim Larson and Roy Gibson with Jack Goodman, former newspaper man and television news director, on July 28, 1986. This interview is no. 151 in the Everett L. Cooley Oral History Project, and tape nos. 513, 514, 515, and 516

Goodman (b. 1913) recalls his work at a New York City radio station in news, 1930s-1940s; at KALL radio as news director, 1940s-1950s; at the Salt Lake Tribune as a writer, and a stringer for Newsweek and the New York Times, 1950s-1970s; news director for KDYL, 1950s; writer for Evans Advertising, 1960s; news director, KUTV, 1960s; and his present work as a book reviewer and architectural critic, Salt Lake Tribune. Interviewers: Roy Gibson, Tim Larson

JACK Salt Lake An Tim Everett Tape City, and Cooley Nos. Marriott 515 and 1986 Library University Lake Gibson History 514, 28, By Roy Oral 513, July Salt Utah Interview Larson L. GOODMAN of City, Utah Utah Project 516 TY UN OF R UNIVERSITY MARRIOTT LIBRARY SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH 84112 \H UT/ EVERETT L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION Date I willingly 19 to scholarly contribute the Library my testimony of the recorded University on of Utah to be used purposes. i~ Open and usable after my review. Usable with the following restrictions: ,(:;214%< Soedtlorn—___ (/ Thteriiowee LB 7/ Anterviewer 711’“:;'1#: ke O§ O‘e for Table Erom Art torJournalism. NewSYorkBRostERIob e MayorsEaGuardia. « WNYC in Experiences Colleagquesiat Coverage of v on the, President . WPA Marriage KALL e Move Employment as « s « & o < « be . . & « = L . . 27 & 28 Broadcasts. 33 . 315 e . West. 22 . « < 87 . . . 44 . . . 48 Connection With Kall. 52 With Tribune . . 39 Experiences. of New York Reporter. . . Intermountain Newscast » 46 Coverage Early < . Stringer. KDYL-TV . e to « . . Newsweek Early o . Events. o Correspondent Experiences o = . Tribune-Telegram Capital = Manhattan Projects. and . =« . ie e Program . o« .o Normandie. IR .« o < Roosevelt's MeENWIMEe T . <« Special BearlSHarboriDay:s Contents Thirties. MWarVearsiBroadecasts. Fire « o« WNYC. Some of Experiences Production . . . . Indian and Times. . 56 . 60 School. 61 Colleagues. Methods. 55 65 80 First Live Grand Canyon Work With Travel New Coverage Plane David Council York of W. Election Crash Coverage. Evans Advertising. Director Times Returns. . Activities. Article on Blacks. . . 85 . 92 . 95 . . 106 . . 108 sl ¢ s & . o . @ . Eiaca): SalttPallacePPEOMOEION. < v o o o o o o s 116 Year-End-Review on « « . « o« o « o & 1197 RESE-"TanNCINGLh/ o MovettalChannel Changes in Covering Sale of Plastic Some New Story Garbage Ownership Present o TV. s o a0 of « e . « o « « Can as < ke s 5 to 6 in in . « e = s 119 @ = = . . . . . . . . 120 122 Paramount. Boise. . e & Commercial. Articles. Newspapers e & "Treatment" Channel Column @ - Test: Interesting York o TeleviSion. Atomic A 20 . 125 1313 . . 140 . . 144 Thirties. . . . . 151 Artist/Writer. . . . . 11557/ alat THIS IS AN INTERVIEW WITH JACK GOODMAN A FORMER NEWSPAPER MAN AND TELEVISION NEWS DIRECTOR IN SALT LAKE CITY. STILL WRITING AN ARCHITECTURAL COLUMN FOR THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE AND DOING OCCASIONAL BOOK REVIEWS. THE INTERVIEWERS ARE ROY GIBSON AND TIM LARSON OF THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATION. [TAPE NO. 1, July 28, 1986.] RG: .JG: Jack, you Yes, I were was original they born born 1913. RG: How you get JG: Sheer did artist, and Art Design. a By living in student. got it's 1932 arts. He's at I NYU or time ran of education where please but you get for in teaching Brooklyn always saying teacher's of R thing So NYU; I "Get W Sol mean T to to few deny that in 1913, was going to be an went to National Academy of and realized it go In have could school. a into middle non-academic He an art classes in the would You Service, sounds career; all my I you qualify you mother; of a was when steady." that making paint Well, Jewish I on that Civil "Well, I chap. degree had the a you a school, figure they something 'said, NYU. my high you license, went I in and to the born '33, into school you of was high the where could I of and difficult the one tend I with out League then very begin I Students people you? journalism? To after I'm Brooklyn. into accident. weren't Brooklyn. in 23, Brooklyn, Somehow born October was in natives. were the in lived she know, was get that all kind right." non-career fell on a to at the JACK GOODMAN #1 college newspaper; I sent in the me on a letter the staff So I paper campus if doing, I said, the staff, the could be papers. And stringer for the was believe conservative, the mast as it at the city it were, there moment editor so was his assistant's the names can They semi-copyboy call 'till The name I at Lobster 10:00 the was Sann, think each At me the 1little Post. I Trick--2:00 next morning. 2 campus very always when I exams said Post I And on 18-- commenced up where the Lister, and Sann. rate in coming written stuff?" the full-size, Walter has any the Hamilton Paul so those the named In in It to had of which a I one became teachers' part-time gave for Post, down 1940. some paper. graduated, went notions." NYU Alexander no join the was gentleman around find "Okay." a I you time newspaper. were I because journalism you when don't the York by into terrible I was ran by one not, it editor why stringer New "Founded Well, of because whatever the these the or So and a Republican head, something." all happened of "Hey, editor downtown days, day. got was you that and that critical you've Jjoined graduated actually bitterly college the and I mention a book said, they assignments. work on "Maybe answered I was began to what at night, as It mostly consisted it a they were, of JACK GOODMAN #1 copyboy duties fried egg Ludwig or Loré who, Now substantial to luncheon of you're paid They You a the inch, stringer. inches measured it together into inch, fifty or get a direct the hours. you covered. by by a I cover Club Catholic a don't a or Holy Name speaker, and couple which egg fairly Rotary little is of inches the reason remember cents an course what it I didn't home somebody reading a I'd, "Boy, on Post, maybe my little look at that, you know, as it 3 it but get a a wholer the and were. am." Well, stilil I'd open was Nine to for story, I and be you'd wherever '‘But would an job significant subway, I bits the lunch contribution here inches then for perioed. it two and free do your was now paid got really that riding that and they? pasted maybe inch, you didn't and and assignment Of string inch string, sthink;»'in'' page a the remember readers, a fried could have get named something Brooklyn they'd by liked you the getting columnist get at and to. measured Esdon®t and mostly called amounted the You'd a mostly speaking notes. was we'd but of street remember, then Queens, take they still write be the There and would Society and I meeting somebody across sandwiches. sandwiches. you'd going make see to on, a and million a long JACK GOODMAN #1 story short, time in the purchased Stern, now. the into only New City mine of or you a City so ahead of me. all mean?" on through for at copy." that." can He WNYC. He do me said, Until had He the said, a real "Well, now been hired is the last one down I encountered I said, been as then rate, I a is encounter He said, gotten in was how glad working the Pack "Gee, sure of think, paper. just the Westinghouse and I a succeeded became Any Park, I've towards news, favor." I've the entire, employed 4 one of "I'm they the He he turned of college And paper thirds the Hall was tabloid, later while. it two who or the on you Pack of him You radio then a and first knoyn you. subway, was also walking television. had and or Post think They as full Orleans virtually Dick television along And and director, division New Last Network's events, a about the I tabloid. was the in special year get just boy; own staff I named Corporation's L copy shop. and to Westinghouse him. the work outfit. a guild large walking into unemployed Park rather a that half a I'm of as to newspaper. fired, Hall friend it Deal was So began people about one I Philadelphia turned It hired. room a needed first city same a staff. as by They it just to a are meet "What do a in job Macey's copywriter, and JACK GOODMAN #1 his job at WNYC They asked him if he that on part he got said, got off. as "The they out how to New a night York over name like for radio machines which of. Press And They come by you puiled the one. It's much furnaces peg like are a that 5 even way. what a had day City wire for station one with only that were had a the these pegs in night side If wanted 1:00 you in put So, the and was white. to in service that furnace glad was There and figure was a The at out ask radio was clocks. say, to local problem was afraid another clocks. let's little a clocks side and They and which Dick's day on, was News on which of newspaper 24-hour the to very kind brass-faced were painted; was they've Park, wire. he turn which Hall take And "Sure, INS, sports or is can't said, a controlled round, I City there Radio I'm had every stations. were little, and and WNYC off they Jack, they I news "Sure." and run. to right that piece people's ribbon." wire, only a machine a was Association them. they went was, me, oué, way Building paid dark We problem wire, News the said, bothers them handle He machines, change you." also job. that figure run Municipal his his teletype can't why show thing these I of could department. continuity the in the it a morning in thermostat. I was showed at the Some Dick JACK GOODMAN what #1 the problem night wire. The night, and there much more was others used no Press Radio more later, "Rip showed him had such and I something like, newspapers electronic drop the there who is was a still assistant station was of New in what WNYC owned New don't alive. by know So a how 6 were News, I But it the That a down went name call in you're I said thought that the be new glad to hall, Morris La and Novick, Guardia's communications. few was probably came all the Mayor the It really So I'd was was and and I say this pity here." often written we'd was it's then? was Dick job of it showed in, It's wavelength They as coming now that a for industry one is. and could, I've municipality. quite got a Novick then still I whose you'd was a York, York is Mr. day service. "Jesus, dying gentleman a Radio think ribbons. Dick, newspaper." and wire. broadcast Well, journalism B wire a Press you said, a a up--I there's are had hour a and "Gee day clocks. change think 12 set He and as read." know. working; was a also days. hour thing to A or tersely, how to 10 24 News rather an those a these was he in was wire was only There There sports wordy think, was. about maybe stations owned by last but the 1925 and that the the The city one. city put I of this JACK GOODMAN #1 station on the equipment was for done by City Hall. When La I do was one what that it began to to use it Guardia the every La in Republican Republican little Well, of called, Party, Party but Fusion and and La the according first he managers, and La You may in a government in New but was had fought and he the majority group. It there were some some liberal 7 put was a Guardia's press La which Guardia began when was a York. He had was a very little from Republicans. of been 1liberal outspoken against New La little kind Tammany. York City was a, what was together people persuaded peculiar a in being functions he He was don't which was he I remember, sheets the Novick, and Stone, useful in to as elected, because Guardia things station, was had Congressman. Democratic, street. radio Congressman, course, the have Guardia gentleman, across Lester comic local right was, Sunday. the over the station later was of named which Guardia campaign man the La When absolutely But minority etc. handled boats, elected one background read aside. first his a Fiorello was abolish also police radio. heard, his secretary, a was of station boats, wave costly, was The station that to know short The useless, who fire Guardia stories going air. American the They Labor Democratic became a JACK GOODMAN #1 fusion group he then this had the radio used 1little own which line, I think, tickets, Republican, ticket been called used the used. were the So from City Lester Radio WNEW WEVD, labor in New sure. It at maintain have first on three ran might any rate it's the but news of two what the have La just Guardia willing to department as be the we Hall, other I stood station. Now, York than‘you mean we we had our was a press it. At would into by New for there W. it network in York New Daily Eugene were We entree V. always not uptown News Debs. more the into City coming though, to stations York. phone used time couldWkeepitrackifof 8 sought release same send the did wire. the independents owned actually and got and never Radio Novick to We Press there we or us. today. had, whenever you? of the which Labor, the into used was He perfectly We which won. were we would of machine and you or not Well, two just News couple not of And Pack. just Stone did voting American Guardia. kind it Guardia La Party. slid services Hall. La way sources. the I'm under There and I man were wire was station, There news that Labor Now, junior a so to because on or elected station non-party election third really Press and There and It to was WMCA, was a stations and o f JACK GOODMAN #1 course, WOR City. Well, schedule was in New what we did of 15 minute there would be one maybe a 3:00 6:00. and a 4:00 Now, maybe is daytime-only sundown thousand watter were And came. on. When we the that would redo them rate, consisted service New an up was, later York gas from to and to get you I would think 9 we 5:00 or 910, it was sign off at the major 50 wavelength we or until the priority. too the war If bad we governmental the station take had spot things York to 1like we'd have scene. At important news, the UP we for situation but more back at right--the New considered one was rationing, the morning, became Washington, fit the at the we remember it was and a Since time it had I one same York we noon, to priority concerning at given aside, the in because were Guardia as Well, INS, we of La were of had Minneapolis locally Minneapolis. We Minneapolis came As dial that war come the at had we on New was problem. off just announcements 830 a signed with we had the because that and on Minneapolis agencies--we afternoon, was with 1in one there interfered were 10:00, at in news 8:00 station. sundown, of at station still blanketed broadcasts. say at the but terms news one in the in let's secondary or Jersey but to any than what news heavy wire you would JACK GOODMAN #1 pretty well because the involved, news know, maybe the noon was use the Later had we were first WQXR had orchestra. WPA on dead Three concert local. the New came I don't York Times. around, or and local, got That station to The only in the a to my New York. classical you a 40 was afternoon this we music. But music WNYC side. maybe 35--I piece symphony Macklin Marrow, concerts, know, to knowledge classical full-scale name go the commercials WNYC stressed from the and you've symphony in national Now, scene Sunday's, too news. director's have long, reverse full-scale--maybe we'd symphony on terms of that the to news orchestra The time. go commercials. on were stress non-commercials. especially scale kind station say so morning advantages a then commercials. came shouldn't and commonly 1local no have several They had foreshortened stories ourselves we'd on in wire and o'clock then doesn't would ahead heavy A would modeling ten remember that the we up news rather day basic, and world When rewrite in oh, the we'd more so-called have a full later-- Live? Live at the when we had city studio. enough departments Later budget or from 10 when it became where we got the aid Federal feasible from or other Government, JACK GOODMAN let's #1 say there Brooklyn know city the And quite worked how, to from on <concerts. other departments, for instance program involved Write and a closing. answer with had a brand a chap of all later an of York But City we who virtually e or question of thing. College aimed a at at while became the sort of One had the that it what-have-you headman get opening. several. facilities, gave city I'd a City of Health Education The later broadcast be kind and School. of the it After package High McAndrew own. those various program of was night. basis Write own, Board it's transmitter named on. the at Health." nutrition. education And Technical New with which one That it's York broadcast should I once-a-week the them. out of to Your announcer? station new Brooklyn an too, no Figure New Department and format dealt public. had to or was the "You program developed general a having program time called the Health that by the was basis we'd arrangement, occurred air the so Stadium they That The a an Louiston the programming. had out at Museum, once-a-month remain Philharmonic playing broadcast Ndw, got to Orchestra Metropolitan stadium. somehow permission WPA we concerts college They or those. Philharmonic a a Museum, broadcast don't was there got at was director but that's abbreviated JACK GOODMAN high #1 school reason in large were way station a on, We on thing there, of five we not month, formal from Along they" decided to maybe sixty let's say, in the next on the consider on a with once members Tuesday 60 for and We a the on 12 vote of was a or go at maybe council I It were Mayor once rather I was War II, the people - form: ' of elected by tough were meet, something and ten on or and o'clock maybe two o'clock from the FCC meeting a there would on was had There They could till when really broadcast. elected. it of (Council. which really World members permission whole of €ity broadcast were got by The exciting. end afternoon members started morning terms on. their too the 1939 . a' the broadcast Council in Council and air or representation morning. the to ‘have with thing '37 and five concerts Mayor. with nevér very probably the met to were 1938 nto proportional We which about government They a was beginning by that number Mayor Apportionment began or the the the for commanded was in and Philharmonic governed and 1936 1945. morning York, we sessions WNYC the that presidents. and never when did Estimate borough when only courses probably Sundays was--New was Board were maybe and innovative on. the except other at nutrition Hooper. station a courses, to because the stay thé JACK GOODMAN #1 council was really for debating wonderful instance council Mike Workers Union council from the Socialists, was a New York, if one you When of roll, Becker, every what we of had technically system of mikes up a was about and who about of a mike was a think know the for the chairman. foot down. If was But York City. call roster of. as and you only you of were a these We had Chairman an La running soon of Well, we floor. five always the develop got just about racial anyone and It it whether was to Party Armstrong, or job 13 when had thing. they'd possibly one. my New anything, six we remember of it Morris foot part two, the Party Labor it microphone Newbold five running in course was or start never wanted of named Morris microphone, up I'd front man Newbold and to Labor the-call remember do, a members would could getting a you'll makeup you first sixty was that DiGiovanni, the Transport elected as some remember, representation name to was reflected still Cacchione, you Republicans, meeting had the Communist things can you was large to--immigrant I sort who proportional council and If a completely want members. at had the it the city We this and Quill Democrats, of budget, Quill, president. representative. because the aside, Guardia had one a mike learned to JACK GOODMAN #1 have a couple buzz. We the chief Brimmy in wide end spiffed up corner you swing but very good. bring the And if lot's WNYC of maintain that the was harbor the in on launching Missouri and commissioning which happened the the We'd For of Iowa. I very well, but the 14 go don't war. I him. here-- of thing as but war we'd the intrigued came down we broadcast of both remember the hear towards stuff Well, they'd forth was as aisles and over remember And close the national, Iowa. I as kind commissionings the during the a floor them, and Liberty Battleship the could instance, Statue the get like northwest get government, stuff. sort horn. was the they was towards and in back more establishment. Reagan that city It towards going invent shaped between hope Brimburg. reversible you'd that debate go horn man. get baffled didn't would them you'd always he somebody couldn't Well, city the wouldn't named a chamber cover we'd the If they man shaped, toward and a best, approached federal up a swiveling point trouble. did was towards You'd there side horn you gain technical a council that could, that was pointed the so thing--maybe microphone. of you'd a effect microphone--not The set engineer invented it--which of mikes developed--the me--but And of the gang the the Iowa Missouri of us who JACK GOODMAN #1 were there kind of from intrigued Missouri and attractive us that have newspapers his been very big studio at which was--I the of always Fair time. all Perisphere. of New the Borough System, and Moses who would fight but Moses or and had, three was strong they had built out used as an ice-skating rink in the wintertime there terms, but 15 I Trylon and the and of the he the State thing and another which is rink, an a New Park was associate. La they in the went out got still small, York say. And first two past the his there. indoor They Guardia's as somehow as Tri- of put was World's Parks, which by the a Fair, step, about and prime The had a hand-man building we back right And prewar. World's was to we'd go he area. very because Guardia's of not was the basically one from to with to damn just parkways, Lake one and La Fair Salt as of one World's by of City, the Robert associate it's it senator suggested 1939 maybe Authority, of the were president, days the Department next prewar thought That's had back at stations this Well, know York Bridge the Fair, don't felt, anybody was the World's we if surprised. young--I've head And radio 1little and, Truman event the this wife guy other of by daughter. this or city It was ice-skating not terms so small a small JACK GOODMAN kind #1 of year. a convention It, Field. by If the you Manhattan to Field come you you swing Field an was aside York Times ing "It's too It's know, the shores of the Bay. They the Am was had many the relay it to Greenpoint, was a disused, Well, of and I in, and the World's and the still at an liked broadcast 16 it was rest Fair Fair Fair, you relayed in I think the could are water. as we our on that It they're a to them the were because They the did Terminal such where of we and on Bowery Ferry things you That's there. old the that aircraft studio as WPA, called the to World's again was domestic the Guardia it there. World's La then airport big the and an the from Guardia remember Bay and from editorializ- funding, Flushing transmitter. we course came back they and need terminal boats Brooklyn of federal They're twin-tower there. But La and newspapers studio, transmitters. dedicated, never Field rate other at the any the field, studios In the Guardia grounds 1938 area remotes Fair of La beyond 1939, was Well, to be seaplane land times Guardia just we they'll flying DC-3s. great a La J.F.K. overbuilt." it field to and of Pan to other close World's something much the go big, had to flight, the had at very out a to also that is drive you New big. way, take and center was still King and JACK GOODMAN #1 Queen of Pack, was You got have the go a like the to for remember kind on coming bearcat to Archie, to England voice. Archie in air, I was I we'd go Now He on to Dick remotes. the like Tavern. out Pack, loved never sounded Duffy's and fair. remotes. that of the a air. Duffy But Pack remotes I and liked together and-Was it No, no. Pack We to that by about he that had for a a Thomas Alva Edison. Edison in the Jersey. And the air New Bamberger--it Not related No, no put a to love to had Labs the a the one knew how to and they had wicker WNYC Tommy the dated back been an office boy it furniture, in Salt I store they and went at on the store in And-- that it. for Broadcasting department Lake to Orange, WOR Bamberger here sound, East was Bambergers. about Cowan, he guess Bambergers 17 at station Salt baffle read and major stories was back radio Bambergers tell name go first to in were to in called with ought Plant Jersey the I and called was connection studio One's Jersey--I was too? newscasts Cowan when There New staff, announcer, Edison New Newark, The announcers. senior Company. newscasts complete the in the minute. five was read Lake. know and To of. They Tommy used begin just they hung had with no drapes, a john JACK GOODMAN #1 right around flushed the the thousand john, watts that's corner you or another from could whatever thing I was an buff knew. He knew ever well. He interviewed went to WNYC, interviews. director And named we librarian. Seventy eights. Seventy eight again the room to it, read put the and paper clip paper two when aside--I I there with all on first I did asides on that. a cigarette 18 master heavy a the thirty-- work it, at the smoker, from master going "When a to take the they'll and my paper the was--the and you take "Besides control, WNYC was use dumb with thirty-- said, thing music library announcers says, he for a whoever too dangling when WNYC into Pack they're other fairly to the to The a walk it pages." was quite had to staple he the singer to got don't And into we was news because opera music went the give a first recordings, off." went smoke. and give you off the I together, clips rattle was thing and news clip, It When first control Newman Cowan, then way, five station's the and the R.P.M.s--later stories. about by on the down they Tommy opera WOR, come also, Herman a music on When out But buff, every them go about opera they'd it had. forgot Tommy studio. hear they programming. I the I I other used to went in lips, and JACK GOODMAN #1 master from control a remote or Recording on. Yes, were they of at an Seemed their me own disk I he was Chinese of China moving disk cutting, So, I'm you of want the lit I to it, and don't rate, down it quite that my was first announcers. could we had very use there good was 78 sweep his he'd cigarette he put went them puff. remember it--I day It could and this. Tommy my hand And he a steel was the or Mayor the waste a this needle basket. it and in the said, "Do little bit someplace, inflammable. burned four Tom, the material The the across highly this Joe did Henry plate send named 1/3. they was took to who 33 throw Now, Cowan, 19 a job. ought announcer out, have the was that in what on we of on it hand them grabbed something?" name shavings throw kind periodically father the a shellac when whose Gee, some recorded rate, would used purple gentleman and shavings, a whose my see They than something used-- it and basket, They with Any doing cutting disc. they collect putting a slower Henry and was waste was was Town. on coated recording. who was thing. think it engineer a such recording and to moment some aluminum substance, the was. the building back to five mostly Fischler, Any to WNYC. the They announcers did music. all A these JACK GOODMAN guys of #1 are dead, them them have or I'd say most shuffled off so fairly freely. announcer, events, he periodically call from he the named he for Joe would three or another back four months standard music then for the could go the live did the with good standard, administration was quick an Museum thinking is Stadium, Lester only 20 way I they'd put turn table, wrote Except we who can just covered or we also Wood the Tommy Stone good, the Well, during had know usually concerts. was a and Louiston so We wrote. doing, says about department Joe and the the library appointed named on, a fare." and You on was he was musical. Sunday type, announcer he you again. who continuity what at them music anything broadcasts Frick the knew Ward and phone the up announcer. for the go a you, him recordings chosen or who of own what music Fischler type was read George drank, "Have sober he'd great get for send and later their that they'd about a put works sheepish a special he Maine. we'll about was you'd all talk news, and that named can but Bath, "Yea, come announcers the you?" gentleman practical of Fischler I smooth, bender, sheriff gentleman works a think Virtually anything: very on them. Fischler do was went I Joe could music, of was Tammany Cowan. There wasn't very describe him. JACK GOODMAN #1 And had we One's name chief the was English very We last went to left another the war television Lake go of the and radio. named Nat Eddie was in forces radio he He stayed in York. We Jack got actually Gaines. Voice Now, of you went that another man And uptown happened, replacing is right America in New remember and didn't Jack may the America, New of setup, except he--before to retired Voice of a progressed. the Voice he for and ranks, uptown, guess. was things me the before I name Director Salt to job whose the through the to of a acquired Goldberger armed into Washington. Eddie And gravitated also director the go when him, into up to as war--well right want Nat got later And mouthful assistant York the a the American, broadcast. We Goldberger. New After somehow before the became the was pronounce. people Eddie and Nations which announcers. later Nations, assistant, three as military to of was year United to who United Balber him youngish Hayward the Amnon had America. he for sort name and Mike except good Pack. newish, language named anybody His new, announcer fellow Uh two a now York, chap in Berlin. huh. came then to work he for 1left us and 21 just went before to the WMCA World's and then Fair. was JACK GOODMAN #1 drafted. got And back from station I'd had ever a a me By job with RG: Adamson. JG: Bill did when the she and Nat you Stone--his it violet, Henry where where the we give you one the first and not a I orchestra interviewed paint. 22 to the Bill-- York. just radio. was in Herb. not I was looking, those you days coated with I've the gentian mentioned WNYC was the main studio the studio Certainly was George Stone in Now, We anecdote Herb But maybe played. people went that etc, engineer. think Nat it was tongue, purple Chinese except mouth Salt 1like in Now, So got prepossessing somehow. trench gums, of very mouth for time. was I New funny George, in and things wasn't the jobs to name kind conditioned back broadcasting, the along. Kennecott. and back name get he first teeth, Tom then happen did a Lake, things trench patients Salt funny and you were handled you director her didn't and Well, WMCA, know bald what that got when female there in Hatch, events completely got if was agency. right he I war--I'll because had and job Nat first with agency special the was asked your when She time Adamson to of. George advertising But director, ana that entitled war. new Judice, wrote Lake. were the heard Bernice he you air not air conditioned. JACK GOODMAN One #1 day we Lehman of figure to have the in bring announcer of the Governor into about. didn't hot with of leave at the with the Herb's in there the master from the got because the it's gain. The intro. sitting We they've gain Yown Wl ittiet oriental the as his face making him is Herb has no teeth these him and lights who a when purple 23 way, but chew wet, a soggy It's a him, something is wrong "I'll him." I'm got let Fine, left go so there speech, into master control lights out except box that a And Fu his mouth. are lips And the engineer-- shining Manchu, on has @ there's' oriental that like was his “Wit." the an of know, #in mean look Stone, the had cigar. and up you Iights announcer--I behind look the opposite Governor's got is Nice cue control, give He'd said, I'll off the soggy Herb major Lehman by tray. and So and and what H. ticked and them. his a know--we cigars control, master hot you sitting master. Governor, and with control, on studio ash is I'm the chewed the Stone master went JEls he's feed the it was and remember he Herbert who day, smoked them, Herb Herb the smoke day. don't Lehman Well, looking I Governor York the instructions talking cigar. New politics the and of the closing. cigar interview State opening he to and start the up on next to to move Governor JACK GOODMAN looks #1 up--went the kind of happened to pieces. things only in that At the World's restaurants eating you a could modern we were a 1life. the in I guess then to city with must have we England Queen slow and along long had had in to I the mall them army the and that's And the big VI they Pavilion are new, other budget, built hands, of them the 1939, and and on your the army so new, Queen the the these nice trees, lights that shown up of present proceeding between or 1little been are 24 just that have George and city's is King eat more transmitter the was untoward recommend this I any a first couldn't British with have pack They There one than or their was acquired into had guess. It firms--people buy one, free. only didn't them we to reason aerial--well, town, Perisphere. this get them. Mother, pace We an this are have meals. wanted fair station some would like a could mentioned free I the The Well, transmitters back eating engineering the that that's ONE] remember world. what-have-you. but I for equipment--liked and Anyway, interviewers to fair. the I. know anything girl equipment station but our bring at you SIDE French, glorious incident OF Fair, so Swiss, did radio-- [END JG: So from at a Trylon plants under JACK GOODMAN them #1 and the made other have kind hear happened. breaks off. arrival war Pack a who called take it probably launching. say and of Queen. ever launchings a a began, I guess, man not the You you a like full the then take we ideas feed it as you'd could hardly 25 are said that day In before fact, maybe. And a stand in were stations chose. them I which think at We front could we were particular things nineteen the it frequently this or a Dick from we we ships idea. have see of great at of that broadcasting vessel. way, they came, one a other some of got station at thinking One Juneau, launching only know Brooklyn. the the of keep I and broadcast hilarious smaller of By I pack 1limb commissionings in bow. to and Yard cruiser big by what this tree reportéd. Navy cruiser, a at came describe our has Roosevelt mikeAsigns end all didn't Queen with hits one ships or the and stationed and alongside aerial King were they'd absolutely was upon and Pack announcers King one broadcast the the like of light always of the really launching was was York And other running That the New as the no broadcast the And and of ones the effect. equipment--they Pack's probably in nice applause, transmitter funny of places. you'd the very announcers--the this various a speaker. like different Seems to JACK GOODMAN me at got #1 this this it same bottle, you the vessel, ship to goes the on the waves you with we're comes there with Pack down down gain, The the Whatever it was. At any take the rate, the ship 'cause later he pull this shooting and all and thing, match it's move engineer and went quite are couldn't into probably 26 we the still in up comes to Joe to Joe Juneau." the Juneau. forgotten to of so cable couldn't us frantically trying to do the whole microphone, cable down it, Joe see told river, high. of critical you had well, heels He's you been reel the Fischler cruiser long when moment take have the engineer take someone and, there an critical we not long, the as the this up the of off he's when deck But to and We this. starts cable. goes kind Joe of the do that put the on first yards moving. might man and know man doing she feels they "Now, is It You and when a River little forward we tape him, a ship on East there it Pack swinging put how there. always break, We'll 900 says, Fischler bottle here, and here Fischler. she's fine, there's a table, ocean." about one "We're the sounded ship moment the only said, know. into of the broadcast dancing bow; a the he'll it He from hear So, maybe notion. can feel the were way and thing. we great the down one and there wunder the JACK GOODMAN #1 river. It Now get to Because fire was the serious, we were into--not 4-F--4-F I You deferred were got importance just gas I ourself, must "Ladies, take you took stamps. was a can We did more situated at headquarters for did have the recruiting draft 90 the cans food and more North to of had Church rent doing you got various setups stuff. information, Of and when 2/ put feeble and something. a of rate, then we're not announcements about one that the butcher I for the have If number of Navy which was the Frontier. See, you departments got course, we they reached on stamps. that Sea they've said, should and Atlantic was we certain Street, your which rationing work military we're control, what announcements. elaborate and any any fat the recruiting remember, you of But spot reversed know effort doing fat you war you're wasn't the reason myself, your said, by part. and or found remember Slightly but months I Tuesday." 1-C I there rationing. later. admit. least news rent--no, 6 radio were times. our etc., you national at the boats, that all doing police when for the tenuous about in of we're the fire was put to doing comes; their decrepit. found war launching servicing department fairly greatest We got to did not today of broadcast their the hands JACK GOODMAN #1 antodta s bowlt etesy, specifics kind like, was were 90 Church fully When the things in The war for busy, Air the and by a it Beach, the was for major department notified that they whatever Among For it, the it, on needed our he we later truck used try to calm needed us up at the to broadcast pier. By the The Normandie funnel was a up really pier, time we got there was a ship with dummy, and 28 say at La we can three was kept war of maybe 86, a or fire. trucks. riot Guardia in with bullhorn rate, they course, were raced never up to the forget it. funnels. acting The on a as a February was any At we, I at Pier was speakers So was of speaker and event. it up loud and school we freezing down. did Normandie. there things a there Normandie there We remember let's when this I at were moment. Somehow us, the up Neck over relations the set 'But was Force. the electrical to going which equipment on system Air on had went the Army at fire a war public officers. because equipment our and morning was instance, Harlem the the exist incident fire day, department each Throg's ships was the until large the at importance in that. time Marine time 11:30 broadcast didn't and one the very Force Merchant school we lacking with began Manhattan training of Street, staffed department. Wetc. like The a AFT great JACK GOODMAN big #1 flue, and Manhattan got about there What a the was Navy was busy Coast Guard. The ship. And dead ship. No for major to the convert down a an it in they let's Kapok life were of of water Kapok life on down Each of spark fire a man flew he spark. preservers. with They A 29 a was or spark that ship or was going to 5,000 decks. Where were using they an acetylene him. of A water a dipper reckoned hit on though, stretched throw flew, no something with hadn't a stanchions bucket to was cutting had watch the included upper who of rushing pillars man the they're they'd those to there's doing the the transport. over so ballrooms the a by parlance elaborate along so-called the which troops pieced command boilers were later vessel their have began. over into in must of fire taken Meantime, rather 5,000 a of the transport preservers a in about--well, torch If what they torches. dipper. was While say consisted Guard grand acetylene watch the the cutting had turned in a stretched carry they to deck. had was we been Island We the converted functions. one upper Coast fires group pillars be it ship after had the then. discovered, to so over by hour we going up high half Normandie It power going feet happened, together, The was 2,000 about had Navy. smoke a with Kapok fire and a full the life JACK GOODMAN #1 preserver, It and just ship. went And wood I they that and it that. By there what didn't on the a pier and Ccity got and pier didn't one is they fire just and throw of in time, onto the ship, which we the East at pumps Lake, and they about fifteen you. I fire had about minutes. They 30 to three are city fire from one is something. hoses metric they from a many the Hudson huge the fire, New from York times, River pumps; move the fire boats throwing cases the Now, the And douse they're use and the or crew were, many boats. River mean could Guard hoses to like gotten in broadcast they had the ran Well, things found then began boat, it or they in up and because brought pick when but preservers, and connected inches the life Coast So caught ship. connections ship and a department hose fit elaborate they on the the fireproof, stuff was the through and the crackers. the decking they'd to down that, pressure. there terrible right no 1line fire the was whole and the the where the can kind burning happened couplings system was of fire basically decorative had of 1like is some chain taking some time there department mains ship to know besides been the the a the things what spread up and always was like had mean there's was right paneling fire. had it Great a there the Salt in tremendous JACK GOODMAN #1 weight the of water command department I mean of is the Navy; in under be was was Waesche(?), the fire Let us will the down settle turned what And to so maybe the do about in effect hours the upper the scuppers was a decks things--we liable the didn't I to on If ship. it with put They got But they filled water. take By know 3 the Water the way, it--the See the right, the was runoff, one and only you designer have tell fire fire me out." out in virtually all freezing, and and of he which wouldn't the did. time. ship water, "Don't just the what but they and get side. done want you it's had didn't ship can was all said, name point sunk the his that have admiral was of would the who feet they in the bottom." at JG We on rate heard think cocks, the feet. would We roll sea Chief, gentleman cranky River ship. the a fire lieutenant Officer. thirty-six couldn't cranky got Hudson ship So three Admiral, Rear open Waesche(?) over. a maybe forty-two what tell the Chief a effect under Battalion Battalion be ships and a Petty it's the of even straight of suggested, A the Guard, Chief and drew bottom about is but Now, command "You've out, Normandie a in he get the wouldn't Chief charge, ship. Coast boats. he he'd Battalion the the fire about--well, the onto the of the ship strange the ship JACK GOODMAN was #1 there on sink it, that later. on the By that but pier want it have had to the broadcasting from remote truck, this every we it listing. at out It the all tide New midnight and towards day, and they began to worry when the tide went out and piece of steel hawsers, just cable about maybe they rope lashed wouldn't from the pier And they had the the on port the side, way I could the the way the tide the vessel was 32 pushing they was was the to try got every you know, ones and so she going going to to boats that to that happen pier tug lying toward did fat the it guess. would big to been I it hawsers the and have changes what have bottom-- year, the--and boats, whole least find: You'd You'd to a didn't too. room. about fire think, Waesche(?) at cause of the the Normandie over there, that Harbor or stuff. apparent about -hawsers, roll out side, noon, is and the have York land and apparent would about intb engine you read to and reason was too, the day turbines; take We York become whole the in New all pier system would in The the rewire clean the to him. gear, stayed began sink to station Jjust propulsion Well, them we're was replaced. with But with to argued encountered And Normandie He never and night. pier. we time course, had the roll come. on the would be maintain it JACK GOODMAN #1 the this is it's 1like had the get to maybe crippled he building--maybe not limousine it was sure--where into the the you building 33 Germans harbors these out. Well, in five or Manhattan or was--I'm I Auditorium, College the a in was broadcast how at were--shocked through was mention him, drive They teach the maybe at saw Hunter could to them made first That was. order should I ever war. to worked people other many like I the way clean thing I time first The to Roosevelt that broadcasts the other guess I Roosevelt. Brooklyn. I'm The on. went war harbors trade their learned fellows in entrances the at ships sunk had in demolition underwater school diving a into it turned remember you of most for there was it pictures and bottom if And over. went she and forced, finally just it's against ran or pier the of to had they vessel the They water. and edges the Well, tide The over. went sure from decapitated. get they'd six in everybody call the out a with go the go And down. let hit to going falling way, the of tugs it's or pier the hit they'd and crack, if would cables steel the cables, the got building Woolworth the remember to You and ship, ton 80,000 an snap. to began cables was, it think I night, at ten about along Well, upright. his car, stage his doors, JACK GOODMAN #1 him, stood move and he'd up erect him to of how I think very remember the he first knew broadcast; by you say "Howdy, La the little by impressed hairy and shoulder the hands down and had size and of his was arms and apparently developed muscular I was, thing other The a strength. 34 from with kind of tremendously hands. pulling he you, about kid that for say "You're tremendous But thing saw he know, You he tremendous a let's Or, Guardia." fine. was other He'd with. were knowledge because time second station." fellah's had microphones up the station He'd very set executive, The he is, was radio done have affliction. distinctly what it. thing. his by or do to thing We people. of memory up the it's I every which polio, of a victim was handicapped wasn't I he much And today, public the was. back news from man the protected carefully newspaper, Movietone Fox all he look you as and hide time, first the every every station, would there opened then And that realize you podium for shocked. absolutely The curtains the happen this seeing his him for braces snap podium. the when and this, they'd and of kind and car the of out helped be see couldn't audience the so closed curtains theater the keep the--oh, keep stage, a on car the put was He himself amount a had of wonder, JACK GOODMAN #1 I when mean, and he he paced spoke, himself, script, and you'd script. He'd turn it. last The many people his last was time saw face and he he'd been to Been to Yalta? Yes, he had he was been never realize he had a saw memorial the start off. It a and last that time photos of day. windshield during think it rain, I showing haggard. great him There's and This was a limousine--I rainy to a wire was then. a he on was his after did. and then service tribute, The was cut, several other and Harbor I forgotten 35 day. was on--well, the grim can we were those days your own and play you know, memory was had the day listening to the station was the call I if there take concerts, I Kknow, In paste pretty as And You tributes. had looked long. know, Sunday, I've really too died, war--Pearl which he we together, We concerts. the that you them And survive after music. of Yalta. days, put Philharmonic WCBS in then the seen gaunt, to day take background a and was You've broadcasts other could now him the going full tribute not somehow the--. the a several you a 1looked not remember spent had riding on listened, he him. showing really himself page I you timed Brooklyn--on think, know, he a campaign in you CBS letters. There JACK GOODMAN #1 a any rate they interrupted announce that the station, and Oh, and day or or two on to the sank tanker off Florida And then we, of Island. Long you told what didn't talk about them things are crazy. up the was. Normandie those even though gang plank from Camp Kilner and the from and and piers, anything 36 next they'd they'd about it The So you who bring load, the where the ferries troops camps and this had or Mary to felt say, let's several other that about. anybody Queen watch could you And the on. troops, docked went sometimes you one and Navy things the of and course, talk not example, see were They commandeered, saying put could were the should For that to you it see to The censorship. self strict very Elizabeth. without German down marching Jersey they to of deal great especially eyes Queen were and services these they tanker military didn't next coasts. a wire the and the off could. you on "German--Nazi's know, You For off activity after a was there etc., York" New Bomb remember. because coast" off Subs "German headlines to the out, out blacked were they so concert for bulletin blacked were studios the every put you days three about can I all about At ran we So on. was war that's Philharmonic a CBS. and NBC for network blue a network, red was in you vessel in New knew is JACK GOODMAN #1 it's or tide, the second high tide. York from people on the ferries of that New in things You could not far and the "Ask the they said, we've of a we set gear it's built the mock-up tanker on and these the fire would go opposite asbestos out." off maybe calls get phone for instance just been invented go that was fine except or two, and from street people to 37 know and at it what's fire this was just about So you'd Manhattan. the snuff and in we'd 45th wanting fighting and day every oil; fire suits, Well, is special had which stuff foam that's got we and of full them fill and mock-up a and destroyer a We pier. this fire, on them of up says, done we've what but secret, "Well, He Street Church 90 contacted we So Navy." and transmitter fire." a not "It's says, transmitter of says, up the Phoned transmitter. our from year Brooklyn." going smoke of column big a see was and in there over fire big a there's "Gees, there anything window the out looked somebody war the our second the About it. about knew we till about from far know didn't we that installation Navy One nature. Greenpoint in over Brooklyn In transmitter. Island Staten not was us bugged that thing peculiar a Jersey the or ferries hide to way no There's high next the on out go to going now loading, Waldorf-Astoria that big fire at JACK GOODMAN #1 Brooklyn. You'd those things know. But, we ever had a It was Yes, I had and Had really although one was then the a we in that was We bit the Some felt of stupid only you complaint the project, war, the could for I the guys censorship of went you were can you're not | bt in charmed join the that time I doing. 38 So I in more York. newspapers came a on to up the Manhattan go off the over New York Nobody ever found you had New get existence to out rumor-- called pwastvdin which a thing all value one Somebody going project. of Navy got various a days down by the there's srcourse; our The business scrambling were built. well. if out York fairly and complained. New someone at Manhattan because we being newspaper that the the somehow whole safe, see was was everybody through work anything what you're halfway 4-F find project, Those into couldn't we report Chicago. and anything, stations sbecause, | out, said knew other so looking we had you Manhattan the fire." little censorship. Brooklyn--see with it was a no and-- we funny By as large, self-imposed. anyway, this and you there's self-imposed. mean, in "Lady struck by value say, navy an stayed a ‘stadium then as were the and ulcer at the about war got @ in ran slung from all station JACK GOODMAN #1 during What the and Oh, whole after well, Lake Lake native. girl, Maéjorie at NYU; gentleman drunk and remember when hiding it who the WNYC of York and book the movie it was a saga. took a with a named getting too chandelier. You best now Salt chap about in course class another a cousin Marjorie up the a her workshop and the with bottle finished married part Cohen a I York? was radio wrote the became they'd seller. And Landa got Esther job-- Called Lost Lost Weekend. Weekend firm right. the name Constance Hope company's name things they Opera. And with so Phil with New who New a leave Marjorie, Esther took named Jackson in you begin another know, she did to know, living You why now That's was Charlie that, you Landa. class a all some--well, Salt Esther war. a I effect, that's pass would "Are job did of Landa which is was take there hunting." Hope. now pass. any jobs Well, 39 job Opera. here, didn't ran among PR the other Metropolitan come I around liked Esther I've a called that the day with was again One we It And for and Metropolitan the a 1lady relations would the The Constance public got lovely. Associates. Esther for Esther got have music said in a cousin any jobs, JACK GOODMAN but #1 we had partly get called interns. at season or be things had one had play the a 1like used program in another the piano opened So using really Tike him upset this feeling in your 'little as had the plain fresh named kind or station turned the tape but song; as the 40 on the "“Top dew. fill-in to out morning have of the stuff. could At And sign-on went the morning to you any this voice. good a we and pianist, sign-on Pleased on, Russ mornings. have many except signed your with orchestra Johns. most College the didn't on named newsroom. Russ low and a we a a same guy in when of name. that vocalists, morning the kid McNulty Eugene we we call discovered Now, short Russ soon We became Manhattan singer. just and young be ran rate, I but radio volunteers either to continuity to was you a want and when in really announcer know, up you'd that. enough old affable from that, that came problem didn't to programs was know the bright He And he wanted and very McNulty. was Among like another working today, operation things didn't up interns City and Marjorie she's your York we department. Fordham. Gene New brings rate, a like students and was Eugene were Which any publicity much volunteers, volunteer, we we College them Well, He situation because City them a and I'll something to you, meet you, JACK GOODMAN #1 glad to greet Then they went exercise to do Well, except as Spivy. I in a and "Gee, that then toward the that Kenny show and Russ said, him by there, and changed he his quit a that the get auditioned new name. He month he's a kid he became, got oh, Russ just vocalist and and he and own to the took his Russ neck he vocalist have up Well, 1like beginning Benny's for the and of Well, the to the of or going audition." scruff worked And voice." Jack was to had experience, summer that and Gene Johns Spivy. good auditioning to to man's got the all Russ too." four, singer--sort little hear got him a of But and well three, virtually poor got we "We get a kid's was action, take was had Benny was end summer Baker this feeling two, newsroom. Gene said, of one, pianist he are that the cafe mean, along hope'you into bit. nights Gene you, see the almost had get job him only became up they Dennis Day. RG: Oh, JG: In really? about making were one We one or had two one Pony.seEony guess, and in a making came) Tony Tony had a 41 a wages You 1little tremendously than happy. other had Marvin. towWNYC in very were we on other--later named we but year, more deep had announcers. might after We we remember T did, voice. I His JACK GOODMAN voice up #1 was to and let and being walking to said, "But training rate, he -oh, not to he "I was for a went uptown Major mostly did that who to radio. went We up there somebody people the directors, announcers." to be news Well, Which was became He Now we a civil people, they 42 show And announcer for- at it the reason the TV-- will come CBS, every named and Sandy this to back turnover station. the including series Becker get municipal engineers, he week--big along a WNYC?2" Any Someplace gave we days. to service, I'm good kid had what very even went Bowes odd. on and Tony's to those the World's job." it--well, other is know came in Nat Fair and you reason "This a before was CBS. rather said, ought to than a show. one remember World's don't forever Major Tony got he what down, raining, boy." gain Fair haven't do Bowes had was I air one announcers, announcers "Gees, and I the announcer hour The And the Worlds studios sadder maybe chorus the the ride the notice. "I radio amateur when it's you a me. time and did on And to through said, what was the he have nothing saying do," said, his there's vacated going He got walking along to shutting he I used voice. were and and Grounds, we his we go, Berlin Fair deep, handle ended, was so in 1line These news everything, of civil JACK GOODMAN #1 service exams. colors. They government And I could that was the kept my job. oral. Now, civil funny the New York NYU, municipal government, they the city How all city of and that sort'of stuff was newer batch of A York. including, I Ward, failed they grades the on oral, bright lost think, the but kids quite remember--went clout. So Ferry where they he the when few to the of instead they of sent him a had some down to ticket 43 part that taker of we good for Ward--I on these So, we still political Staten a low marks old-timers. the had, got out, of the George they kind of functioned weighted George City history things got the old-timers. He the else the about old-timers or was gave all written the go they from knew announcers thing work. was in other guys budget, Now, the in who written written. came a one bright these to VI announcers--that before it, Somehow decided exam the exam. but written name and gotimy ' jjeb. or of etc. list, reason full it three. so‘I the a some you New But with For is College, ran flying municipal on top think WOR. bit. give think, service to about the I with working I among passed went passed from three, from Pack He to knew number way rather decided worked, questions we choose elsewhere. it asked finished a as which they was I, while, Island then JACK GOODMAN they he #1 switched was back forgotten the service the station. at to tell station. Segal. civil We Segal had was get his job. was commissioned was a an idea kid play Ted of second Sigmund recognize quite station at it with the the him. department, gentleman that at but was ran very American add was that financed was Mitch early on, history 44 it of for rather 1like they'd popular, which caused because He his we in had the the developed so Grayson, or Brahms and quite patented. said WPA Illinois--dramatizations got You'd guests other a Which the station be also of got for quiz. program the he should which documentaries concerning I the should station, or Cott Music." had program with contretemps it you he assistant WNYC Know him then and with movement and Seymour war musical composer uptown thought it some the I of helped Cott, you fourth Well, moved a the or it. Cott think chap, named Segal's career concerto, Spathe And and director that till Theodore you the judge that my another was intellectual's of violin a Navy. during an piece in Cott, "So had something, director of the or Novick son in We program stayed called, a and He named kind a the midway program was you--now lines he a took drama main. and we The had semi-documentaries Abraham serious Lincoln in works. We JACK GOODMAN also #1 had people on who I leanings. may not do with the thought was Howard air who in did New as constantly being too being You ask end of to He later and the war or just people and ears in from or television the way, they Fox an Tom Payne. on was to anything very Grand And and to in the News, Because I that, attractive. Central 45 ended I me, Tone Palace, always his named early. I up the went up there. He good; they 1look, took one what they need the eyes or had as Toward pretty need was were guy York. department." like We was a come getting don't it Television to Payne defending war me named programs got New to people and left. and CBS of Tom Grayson we may had author those carpet is lot the for you that dramatized, over Movie Paramount." was in was told news the "Gee, of There many communist whom a after television of which stay Leftwich of War went didn't great thing 1left, who a a the I is cameras on why said, wrote center. me people I of Leftwich "This need way left because Robinson book It WPA suspect criticized up CBS said, being far Alexander a York. hauled people. He subversive. criticized being Earl heard. the be Revolutionary Fast of would instance, have lived because guess For or had the from no and I It was which knowledge didn't think located, was of a by huge JACK GOODMAN kind #1 of convention Central Station. ceiling and big center And building there studios were and next lights all kinds to all of Grand over things the going on. This was CBS? Yes, in they were an Leftwich of fully there with to have 1live Marjorie; during the time and got in wé New the Hatch, and about. And Salt My and City. Lake little RG: The one a little Brooklyn. Someplace can't George my put said, putting We've Ogden the finger "If you probably running out owns the Ogden station one was KILO. 46 Ogden, in or got engaged I guess, We stayed York I in George that want to Ogden the through met how came come to Standard tape. Standard on think anyway first of But Okay, We on the it. got to line owns watch radio trying New ever just a sure. began. in that not apartment my father-in-law I'll war along know volunteer, Stayed network--Intermountain in York. We father-in-law we're New the I okay, in as in I'm programs. just Examiner--you're You're TV don't people married war. Lake other WNYC had I then, a then whole by she's she but was York. Village, way, licensed was ways there's experimental the and something. Examiner, air in Salt there's a JACK GOODMAN JG: KLO. us #1 Says up." was "If you Well, of I'd had ulcers; Brooklyn, and Now, were which got me about it. I to because rationing is or "Yes, but steep to rate ended, was the and had and do for European we was very going up looking looking where because at War decided to was I over, West. with the one had gas to see out them with mountains.. and it do garage Alta the in This saying, looked skiing. the rent could by mean it. rent impressed the the 1little you came attempt [END OF TAPE] 47 no mountains ski?" to go to at the people anybody I ..of - garage rent I and garage the to anyway, and remember '46, car Well, folks me a the nothing anyone down came but look enough this garage there something 1945, had furious, coupons. I one raising one oddly wAnd . we a Lake worn kept find Salt was landlord no mountains. I controlled, couldn't Marjorie's May price to over, = line. was in The was factors apartment move war Bwaiting#son rents to the precipitating wasn't. want when exhausted. tiredsn ever At Japanese to any War THIS IS TAPE TWO OF INTERVIEWERS ARE ROY JULY 28, 1986.] JG: Went to air work as a Alvin immediately Mutual Pack. that's on LE.den't By the air think so. it's Eugene. No, any rate guy named I'l1l think had a Pack him in because Danny what's happened out Kearns. Crowe which came station the was on the manager father the was a of the was the Pack was got Danny Gordon And trouble were ask Ranger Crowe. in you was Do we getting still to 2 director. Bennett. of people Danny. manager. station Ken amount Ranger--I've to station minute. many So at he GOODMAN. THE [THE DATE IS for--? considerable military. KALL The is something of announcers Gordon way, Alvin Ken at station. the No, at AN INTERVIEW WITH JACK GIBSON AND TIM LARSON. the later stationed you remember all? Yes. He opened Crowe. found two, Ralph Ralph up advertising Danny And out an somehow: popular an was his agency called experienced bother had Cooper and man. We radio written a song or songs. Ranger. Ranger. remembered it. That At wasn't rate any 48 germane, we but employed somehow people I like JACK GOODMAN Crowe the #2 and Ranger military. soon, the day the Since And news in director. newsperson were came came while would Crowe Ranger time they military off. Danny part and That was, read the news. The announcers read the news. came UEahto Wyman good there. went came or mind think to in. he air just that. at a I was I That KUTA. a and I was the only quite when World was don't with was to do Series October, remember 49 run . a station: the he there guess, a Mal very to work confusing Tom's in wife something, any the line came later. at when Southern It's Hal rights I to sportsman, me maybe. youngster went think, named so, time I one along there. Well, Thorn think in have guy to good Wayman, know was later very worked a never Somehow a not he I think, was Tom Dick about had I hours announcer, think, Tucker & Mal was was Thorn? Mutual plus. Art might There he discharged programming. Standage Arizona. because remember Dick Mel Richfield, Josie. I work. announcer. there my to worked Standage in there. announcers that I be an on still several was helped were to them and The people going give in they but I rate-at Well, World so of the this we time? came on Series. that was I the mean a '45, later war ended. big than We JACK GOODMAN #2 broadcast worked the World out some kind Tribune-Telegram, know whether year. We We RG: the the JG: it's was that vague David Keith in the David of and quo my year, floor studios pro first the Had Glassman quid in top Abe a physically occupied Now, and of and it were Building. Series with mind. or Hatch I don't that Keith the a second Building. David Keith there. Building is on the West side of street. Keith Building Zion Book is is the building that Tom that--that in. Yes. It's on the West side an elevator and not We were the top on floor, I don't building how they many super got it was stayed with haired, Scandinavian the Meyer Bullen of owned. the we any rate we new war chap, KOAL just national Ogden, in Price 50 second on any in knows W. D'Orr engineer rate he rep. Network in Logan which Jack that Whitishwas for as KVNU that God Sorensen? sales second were one was floor. the ending. And was at There equipment. engineer. in the were Intermountain KLO on yes. Or forever the flourishing consisted chief them was At with street, tenants modern, Cozzens Lynn the the floor. know. with of there. KALL we'd say. which Richards and It Reed owned JACK GOODMAN #2 and on a put the gentleman don't go "This said, "You and to Intermountain? West Coast." and stuff. wire a things there of was a network. it, never You, story, It in guess, type wasn't in till to and get a and anything from rather later 5 or day and into that get or you Press evolved by phone Ogden if was not a story it or you the So the stuff, Ogden but over the from there have you trouble there I'd while. Logan of United down He do stuff, somehow something things telephone deal second it had." great mean put ever there's the, a reports and think for group, Denver would I'd a with I've and I as what out, doing. taping out, with it them back come I exists say and by Intermountain rates would couldn't it thing punch Price of I KOVO they a Tribune Price, phone and KALL type The thought I same I'd something something day and come owned business. five sale up, news was if sell and the, at where would had took there situation telephone, he know the There's started We service don't there And which construction toughest back mean getting I York the go the Meyer New is Provo were Lynn back in in those And that, KOVO was who, but stations. and who know today, air. much about the same never--we telephone. I'd get the newscast. The anyplace were something else. able to recorded JACK GOODMAN and #2 then lot of things, a van and play it back from doing at any rate. might say, you with we'd go somebody was up George Maw, to you I mayor. But there was very You wrote news and it off I some a cover kind in of it, interview or later remember. preceded think to on I it don't Lee? window. was an we And By mayor then that put time a on it, was a remember Earl Glade don't know. coverage. or read tie-up broadcast we Democrat live announcer a a who I about read Senator even later got do is that achieved we did don't done an never Granger, announcer and I remember I know Maw we in little another Tribune I Glade wire Telegram. the to and Lee who Thomas. mean Maybe Tribune the was got Senator was Yes, Capitol never interested mayor. floor I took equipment Governor I you've was Main had interviewed him. who or State know, of congressman, somehow began recording the never very the of It Maw. George was We governor out Thomas, semi-live. the alive, anything we Clyde. who recording. But Dewey Herbert Still kind like, remember and some the you took it. Then with the booth in the when we did had-- window? ground series, the floor window. Tribune 52 had You that know, iron monster, and JACK GOODMAN #2 they'd listen move the base paths. radio, the ever moved to the kind of a although in. then that was worked at news that Mel Wyman or have had just a might sometimes and local. wire, on we in. They and the have a for a get a we and same above that. along the Utah I don't about that Tribune-Telegram Paul Sullivan news local know, world for the would do. newscast world, national from sort of meanwhile anything that would remember, one. I sometime. 53 story You'd think, At about tie when the top I or national meantime Washington a Building, local pure was had building into the then I still only the in by Keith '48 you booth Philadelphia building the in of little 1local you write mixed, would scene had You a write you somehow. things I'd local If you'd had good, the desk and We very moved Building, cast would a to the years announcer David 1947, three mean would around went I know, soon guys or an was to Mooney broadcast had the moved They I this Paul You the later in John two Building, Lobby. is I we who soon whether time. and newsroom Theater know put heard. or after we Tribune they Theater But Sullivan, I station. out window, Paul Utah went guess. last radio accordingly That Tribune the our numbers I named to the phrase tie reclamation, them together would do of the those sheet. JACK GOODMAN #2 Somehow or the another Tribune that one called of promote the mean, became Lowell a was a the the at the wrote the there broadcasting, and major 1if the theater Capitol the was the U. or Theater, also the Tribune. Tribune-Telegram time I moved had to running guy the sometime, piece Network first Salt named there my Lake Jack the for barren Jack versus a Well, child, I Gould, said the he says, in fifty 54 New symphony disappeared me 1little thousand watt that I had whoever was Oh, a something goes a the By Times. name this at when to did radio happening a and "Send I there wages York I whatever, splendid. God's So, and the in the so and If was something world." about on guess, at what arts. something never page know, lively were I'd radio you in KALL year--I commentary, they've to, The organization, where knows And then. what was God could Symphony by that column. in you Philharmonic, program and up something York was Utah know musical all idea column. the musical New at for for and that don't fairly about in column The radio, started in--I stuff dance, had Sunday Arts." column which came a was I Durham wrote arts wrote do Lively heavily booklets Symphony "The to fairly simultaneously Utah began lively KALL program I on radio out page Intermountain station. Was it JACK GOODMAN a #2 better idea thousand there watts. was a radio, you having done news desk was And farm underway. And desk I the I Times became words was a a for the right as can more, and pieces equaled meantime You didn't the Well, "As to what the to more I for the was the the Telegram quite make it national for the travel Times, They set for did desk. but up forty-eight states. Utah. In anything was interested. my paid at in more, income the So other fairly came and then capital Lee Times that getting getting two the and then the for it dams for Times point national two met, the farm Meantime, or Bracken be 50 where about building correspondent J. a other the even the legislature when wing of or something--maybe system. each or Times, was or or farm. about piece new way thing the about stringer capital when travel JG: the a a York battle piece disastrous did RG: a did on that did got and New River correspondents I the that someplace down constant I world to something did soon got radio that, the then I the station know, Colorado Pretty cover wanted about the to and was So I and more darn near Tribune. In folded. clear how you got from KALL one day, Tribune. I long think as George you're and over 55 Jack there Gallivan you might said as well be on JACK GOODMAN the #2 Tribune that. and And at desk editor was it's I've Sunday never and exactly to knowing quite the end of was the Tribune's instance was the day and I what the so, crack "You're is. You cardinal is. I think was Bishop Madeleines. We got I me what to Federal lot 56 of Mr. York. a cover at good tie-up, friend never the of was top-most them, so never was. By myself, certain I ways. For Fitzpatrick who the You bishop the I Roy, situation across New that there, the say was KALL I for do I to great in in know from you a if reporter know want on working publisher--called said, a the city and financial financial or in friend. went the the proviso someplace but on information good Fitzpatrick--you cathedral it a was year added the local Wyman, Gorey, Gallivan's what there. the what been Mal as Tribune the instance, feed exactly has privy and the actually Hayes with Jack or For was at simple getting working There's knows George structure but news. God and as time Sullivan time column known know. mine Hayes was Still Tribune. that it full KALL. Tribune about local think Paul the under this at for the I working time at at working you part time city for I together full do then only stuff payroll." street know is, one what a what a installation. I Cathedral reporters, of a lot the of JACK GOODMAN #2 them are good they get mixed I covered Now, I Mormons--nothing up the apparently they at Tribune the anything. turned an so in You Oh, be know I do Telegram--maybe I'd have to--you did fold. guys any legislative session between election day which was home with of George remember the of we Tribune me, that you whoever or had had Rube some a had it would least to had would do an a kind Larson, system bi/ for be. strange the when they When the before be or send a two that when the reporter, terms in-person a the whatever January cowboy State existed. would of you Tribune system. Senator the and The 11th of up the up But doing turned and Reno evening. still there first pretty a be the look over They at to the the in Telegram started sat. could though. have to there. handled this they legislator so you So Federal. me down whatever were and be every him picture St. to Bishop sheet the whatever." sent weather November first got a that--but Lenox doing rate, elections or they days, would legislative stretch well remember the with Bishop Malmquist and But of those assignment legislature verbiage installing could up. Capitol. did were You had their installation because You in wrong to the interview personality Hafen down artist. legislators. Telegram too. in You Now, You JACK GOODMAN #2 traveled with drove car the You luxuriated of those the and got the in the seat splendid photographer. pilot. He seat a the in and so at one point, and interviewed back we can cut of had is in of road a winter, again and little nothing and then here." I a along these 6-50 think then.. and and Well, went we got be us to 58 were the people you an oil know, photographers. This is Nine not that middle but or Valley, was over a up was which and going then it had Jack of think mean, we Vernal. I radio. with who Lake to do and and yet, and Price instead in see to Salt with Jack somebody, to adventures had down zip around there I that rather next stuck out. hotshot was there up the which through, We we'd pushed it one them. know, up On needed road you car. was met down The a Canyon, when got Basin sort him. ever we'd down Uintah there's stream, we his Force interview senators. the across much flowing I you and people state Highway canyon start so of Air And remember Parley's Mile came I "Well, up and was White an and photographer it Jack underbodied. so or were up back side gentleman car, several legislators said, along been first his and so see if Kaiser-Frazier-Manhattan overpowered to had The mileage trips Jack was belts drove photographer. in of a rig you This newspaper JACK GOODMAN #2 again. One photographer Porchatis. And gentleman's home his Temple at long backwoods St. George?" Temple Motel in the We George. had Senator--Orval for dark the at Well, Temple." St. George blue the maybe we entrance said, They of have tie fairly to said, been the said, "Senator 59 and on so and around look But "He's over at had Frank so so." I mean I and Temple and And he the fellow only the George "Brother know you was. well-dressed, St. St. to name suit. business a a was his going staying was, we and he go we it doing career. he's morning next whatever must suit, might for--we So motel. I So at much is where think this too not course." I down my in "Well, Hafen Hafen. wearing was--Porchatis into do to gentleman, this wasn't of phone George on the to arrived and St. act the him, says, She an elected in "Okay, said, We Catholic. I've and drove but Mormons about so, early is this Now, going road "He's says, wife work." a Frank's be long, much knew to exist. his we're so We didn't and his and phone it or out was named do whose couldn't is almost me, and so there we rancher we--you and legislature I, driving see a name, his forgotten still and is to 89 Highway along I Porchatis Porchatis this. about who's in a had his--Frank we and so" she walked asked and or said, JACK GOODMAN #2 "Brother so his little got my and suitcase looked corridor, and we went also loose on got And day the ;assoing this steer and we the Times, stringer or Newsweek was up weak on for things and Frank the scene and or a George and steer I got it. So with my and almost I usual lasso when me, they're they got decapitated knees. Any rate, stories, you know. I'm working for pretty soon I'm their what you will. them country sell KALL for work call could sees the jeep publication. the around St. and and don't Frank to Tribune, the 60 "I turned did. the 1little I the tried and a I--gee, or jeep, on the around down town Tribune old And camera doing an in. in his around correspondent not was the little right the--there's they down I've we somebody's came and said, So really with from got I through to in working comes setting got We Newsweek gone and He and got it, half-way Frank rodeo Side rope I'm see never in proceed here." famous usual I'm I we--Frank's camera Frank 5e the So we're at to steer us. then rather his We we the of they're the with having when back." when there. and But of West over the when fairly notebook both leok together. one the I speak story we me supposed out. often Temple at and we're were in attache-case Frank think so's and They were just then. They were Newsweek almost JACK GOODMAN any #2 story that had to Times, too. Indians know. One radio or--no maybe still at Tribune. story the editorial writer. to back radio Intermountain the old notion the part worthy this entailed. staff sending and a to I write--I television for with the New us Lorenzo there or somebody people Ernie know whether I Times and Mayor Bott. He was in another car full in Cortez, who grew of did one Brigham the Colorado pinto 61 of got to And they for So and We one we were Ernie and me radio or Newsweek. monument guys. for whose the schools substantial City a Valley editorials a a what what what was be know Monument there. in City, like; see because beans, opened Brigham to it do be it etc. write chief The to I was television. were down to the was stopped to I the should to isn't gone of down you had And like, reservation what--but York be delegation went. don't to was going children big, this maybe really York was--no, the people they the I City. the were Linford was Brigham going talk and time over New Again told--or School of the and Linford were What was that that little down existed to one, remember. radio of Indians, country Ernie We to with cattle by Indian very Indian and you'd hospital on do piece We had name was business and went of down, them stopped we knew there JACK GOODMAN and #2 looked on pinto a place at beans. on the to well spoke word and and let's Berard the in soon B a, for let's say had an on the reservation Mission, and there New no for off the Mexico schools water, have was at building furnished schools may the to plus Indian But, be the where there to were 62 and a St. in WPA built a paved of on school roads. Navajo their B, was were no Michael's Rock instance, to records which Window put could get There and The letter book Service, no the at problem who set school For man took he except the reservation. side. got that he were. been the they'd against there the man. people mean B, old to written alphabet schools handsome I very alphabet. and is Catholic great was no notes and come and had wrote schools headquarters he was a a written they sound he and language, But was he'd language, whatever The in own that say starting pretty used their there that first took a Berard, 1900, their English. anything sounds before I Mission, and old and to--there Haley so understand understand of was Navajos Navajos down Michael's there--Father reservation get went beans, reservation, Berard gave pinto we St. the gentleman of And called Mission Haley fields Kayenta. a with very money there one were on the reservation when there's We bounced JACK GOODMAN #2 across go their roads to Monument over posts and met children really to and had get a back City. I Linford did it a was several Indian and TV Tribes constant to preserve culture. another to learn least to jobs, the 63 it Lake of Ernie I think went back the Brigham did some radio a very good good, maybe the that time there wasn't the between--you've got got now and they to It saw. had and and when we say--a become I a was had I at he was etc. Brigham Salt ever and They culture They people way, sure feeling and situation. I'm At going diet, someplace, opened, you've etc, been then Navajo culture. never And didn't. The at the age they were started what's that them. they story to school realized different on thought friction when that. for met they file trip I a a helpful superintendent. Indian in or about--let's know editorials things and Times some School trading had was don't after two one school York be to nothing New must then and kids diet I times City this knew story. and handful these good Michael's 1leaders get They They and big was them. Valley pretty Their Tribune St. parents, and very to their toothbrush. a go tribal mean, bathroom. to move had learn them to be English; very to another moved into they all seemed The superintendent's had simple at name JACK GOODMAN was #2 George thought. did a it was And story story. or Boyce, on pretty It ran, how to to for a young teacher very her I'd what times--I is City a a But don't the first times not only read teacher at the the story, you know know how I think I you I you what 64 was got pretty the where I said, Bronx doing She good so before sure one said, Newsweek in story name her And she liked of the that they're "L told I her first about--one realized write, a Jack her asked feel guys ever I Well, made that very 'it*"was' it." got and job a as and School?" thought ®Ir* a from I photographers Bronx. saw kids me things I Indian I ago all and the the with teacher, from years two written situation. was were what-have-you. and And page something show White like stuff. thisi®and for applied and She Brigham aboutMalil and classroom, from. about Jack classrooms the was "Well, took in she in I or I and people to I was education town's banks, man Newsweek later, going school situation grief, were in good the pretty her here they for years there: good happened school two Newsweek, and "Good up through spots that pretty about back. going thing Indian stores, go photographer you're and in to rather sizeable, helpful; work decided new occurred be good, peculiar the a another going one very of people 1liable JACK GOODMAN #2 sometimes to times later which was act when we later Tribune. I'm SEuEEN and it. got on. That at things Larson in any the I'm" comes me many you so I'm Times, ‘done upon to uranium rate, for stuff,Sdand Ben occurred involved Well, doing stuff e guess, on know, at the Newsweek, with&radio, the scene. I Bennett Larson. This was when the Time Magazine-- Yes. Time Incorporated bought you-- Time Incorporated bought me. was operating on Post Office Ranger--not Post Street. The extension covered by Syd Fox owned air by No, Channel Yes, 5 Western it 4 on. was I don't was Well, I other seeing my mean was phone TV by then with Place of Regent KSL, I guess it's Street and Loan guess, station Regent which and had Danny is ZCMI it's now Mall. TV on the first. Channel last. I KDYL Place--I Savings and the then. well, was Office Now, call the from was 2 back in lived always Alvin who on York lived in had in New some New gone to the were or trip York--or York. Somehow, think I time they yet, on Newsweek. Pack 65 New still who Times, this first--by was think folks alive--they visiting 4 Maybe I get a I work with JACK GOODMAN #2 Larson when introduced said, Time-Life Larson "Say, KDYL and the we I've few on print in news department a magazines or "Would off you the and like bat in scale was which or three balls YRS AMrl and the ASLarson), T news." go "except you he used to He my old to say, went his name city working Time-Life they'll there bought do a at the and this the to "And Walter thing, 66 job." mean right me New to York Tribune have to And I keep said, #ranythingWabout look does either," That's up I where their said, I and they've news "That's was about But television?" explained Ben our said, Lake WNEW." medium, of he pay else about in gave time. Lister." Lister crackerjack he New York Post." know new I Salt know over is he one "Nobody says, does "What over indeed editor at one something And would and station have knows wouldn't 'den®t® says, to So than you He said, be. better on experience that." they air had director?" that maybe in that telephone. rather got you're like like news the he director a effect, up television be and that's director Pack television we'd something to what of station. Larson around, and news and this heard radio, over understand, wages asking I've the phone bought been both about the just people bought I he was he says, "If got money and that Larson is a great JACK GOODMAN #2 salesman and Ben And yet. TV, news News, a Lister and Ben had like director. You radio. his together the whole a music open, and more-or-less footage, to seemed had well, Dan station. building I they it. and the had were hadn't if back at them It know, and Lake I set what already splicing that and was when "This up what they had hired-- already--with the new to move to that far yet. He'd 67 was newsreel said, preparing got would did. to time opened I Salt the and around you equivalent day, hang more-or-less we 1like I'd learn?" you a in effect They together, to in shooting it, that Newsreel and and it with was Tone And out such-like much twice or program they film. happen, did Ben Ranger fiovie went be to on clipping what And They or putting learned" WNEW. at day going and news. me every with back, "Okay, I what was, Fox and very did was or understand they Daily manager know, was WNEW the sales met the by Ben to news things people television is a these stuff says, me virtually coming and Uncle never through as been what closed watch them gave I'd owned quite he'd way they was don't newsreel the that. around with I That all That television thing with Ben me Lister news. put stuff took been know, opinion could and that. And newsreel I guy department. something on great the hifed a JACK GOODMAN #2 chap named knew all hired Jim about a chap Chubb who film. I named Adolph Reich. Adolph Reich whom we Christianson the Sunday picture the Sunday magazine. New York she had and they they the the back he knew up a really on But when own little got bicycle bicycle School about film Christianson, You don't Street or to two. They Ben to in processed. and you'd 68 I was you things went Maybe much, new the medium." And so came we a in Avenue that we what shot, had our known wheels, could old there. was what set little being The to to and two and back back except York. for wife going "That's mean, stuff that going really New get he Hall said, use all installed was been scholarship, anything much Social It a Gibson) remember hired he'd his footage, (Roy I doing had great film splice. Journalism. of this Jim And and they "Instead in was of and wheel. had but film. Tribune, Don Lake, here wheels. originally then Salt over room I York Regents we the who to splice. New department. I getting And said, work at accent about taught to liked something building a I come news later. as to we when scholarship, Tribune. Tribune editor Columbia hadn't came whom been English nothing taught who'd to an knew Adolph Don to had two they'd problem was assign Don but getting JACK GOODMAN them #2 developed situation. and As on I recall, Congress Hotel there Airlines pilot, and If he was anybody this or I out to processing whatever sent Don one--not a Bell Howell. and The Bolex little told me Bell for That's what we two had they which studio because do into come so by to the studio, camera fast interview, magazine up and to So to you'd someplace a for 69 we had a and a was hard to gone Capitol. it back. being say tripod and good lines We had mainly. had, maybe this stay you were tripod in going to him to persuade work for You'd And you processed. the brought persuade to they us transporting of way let's very we to bath, hard-- to say have the get They interviews, had up devised York. and not had picket New we'd Powis find were let's it might on supposed and rigged We in Western 1lab. little on a the Ben camera did Clyde, maybe--Chauncy then. you So, of processing you which difficult was through, the was studio. Dewey who Chubb. Howells, really the George me very little one cops and if man film Howell told Bell basement a were hitting camera them and the Jim had what in film. run We a though, with you out. was a process is air had town lab it was he of there the them tooy this do one get the The non- JACK GOODMAN #2 sound film situation. run it we'd run They'd hook through other end trouble of I air, you your reel. news we think you might have three then of was it news was reel. got it we it it was 16 The way was polarity or to go on of national Fox the film. kinds was wheel, on that ready UPI--various That the get did for wheel around you'd different maybe of reversal remember on-- bicycle end bring anything It you'd one and when As this to and And relied first, on wheel negative. something. it bath the was, reverse bits a through the film and world Movietone companies at that millimeter in shot right? Uh-huh. Now, the Korean War started. say. The Korean War starts the fastest four days air late. put a you rewrote little didn't service So the precisely battling Marines and are so holding We'd maybe have the film of fighting, film it, put it so. back OF the 70 in it on Korea then, Korea by was three or of your news the box, reel and film. You Marines are the the let's from out with Korean 1is that the Marine Corp, and the-- SIDE let's and went by film the today and got took that say [END JG: on copy you 1950 possible, you leader It's say ONE] the day's 7th new news off the wire JACK GOODMAN #2 concerning thought, them got to have We do network could news. at news make they the tube that Iet's ' say, problem holes of a at feeling with out showing “Truman, on' know or by you'd or get line that portion of box, network it's the But as with the fast you got a to ‘you it were- they shot with, had The tube us. network newscast called. and something. engineers--and what have afternoon, this is President phone live. you we'd through the show which say 5:30 we then Well, the but We news well had it up the let's in of good was got. five come some match much." three was didn't too feed, Stockdale you'd matter still get would were Corp., Meantime, news and 2nd go has footage Chauncy -gee, to maybe our the the visuals You'd news maybe The because footage. spoke. network we'd of or didn't television kind Truman Corp., that action weakness that 8th "Well, some had a the ‘this sprocket pictures therefore-RG: Synchronization, JG: Yes, Anything flutter. bars called. were The didn't they space bar Green yes. that or sync., you took something--I This would was all cross-- bar. 7L off the don't black and peculiar had network what remember white of of kind those they course. JACK GOODMAN JG: Yea, at #2 you got an least you had you had So they so because have to his to let's say other kind maybe we thing again. to something, do Clyde as I from P'anmunjom local. Every now and They'd and The principal the better local to in Anderson was Ehink, a minute. also enough. than T was a I did the of do, but we whichi mean I is be first, 2 a 9:00 late. anether sign in that forget difficulties in gathering with we that, Roy, had We great a story very prominent saw, off I'll had--Ted artist legislature ever 5:00 news. signed also it you'd o'clock We I darn Governor off. the the the like on Then would time. think too brilliant, to on came was push not trouble had considered I was together and very happened Ted plenty thing news, o'clock 10:00, had back you'd normal. somebody somebody looking putting to see them in then you was thing Then which you'd remember we have this polarity when which then important. polarity. back but world--or most the news to although be it white And the push and sound. with to black thing through he'd push snowy went say reverse black. 10:00 who in quite o'clock get of went remember at the on to looking news, was was live that first, remember remember there come be thing greenie, stuff you'd would had on 1local thing Truman looking, Truman maybe bicycle maybe odd sort oddly of a JACK GOODMAN #2 background somebody front screen. to of come the Let's down sound say from we the camera could capitol for on persuade and film. speak We'd in have this-Rear projection. Rear projected something like there. had We cards, the wipes from going of punched it you'd too, to telegraph gave you the way, seems we to also thing gave down. us a voice was the mean, those what was the I guess. little dots coming up. connective we was really a that time, Ben first me, had commercial was ZCMI for them for this consisted of a later-73 very for 9:30 Lowell at who was you an Although we on the film But the wipe between night ought we By too. the thing. Durham's have let's gave decided sponsor Sunday we'd disconnected piece the optical felt think Sunday a of no just switch, wipe It kind were announcer segments. about to or literally film, a At was had of dome them You happening, have of chance to I he Many of a have that kind connective. to it capitol segments camera. indication various and between on a indicate up which go the commercials. Truman's to of to went Except optical say, that cards tricks. screen news, news This the it and Sunday brother who JACK GOODMAN RG: G. Homer. JG: G. Homer RG: He was the JG: Durham, he Political became our Science deep Professor thought man-- here the at U. at time. Yes, was before he very éuick a take we #2 five went days wanted so them, and I'd Alan, and Homer we'd in do a depth the and in Alan the riots Sunday The Yes, or Lee terrible said that his cast, was was a I a out of half-hour. 74 long sort of War was so that section. was pressing well like that, stay away fender We'd but benders, analyze we'd Unless also had think. half-hour and Korean no We for of thing. Sunday. for line Utah Sunday. ones thing, newscast do maybe, the thing piece something Sunday, we'd in the pretty do happened Capitol, or Alan background piece think maybe for on cut think had about did news would visual a Moll. I review What kind or happened program do We'd that spot news of would for what little State Alan stuff, weekend that. stuff the a and so kind Colorado do action from a would the upper Bracken a Homer at would prison have thinking and the reel of or Meanwhile, for news Washington. budget so, and write kind Arizona study, of we'd to wasn't it? stay and from no what away something a regular JACK GOODMAN #2 RG: Wasn't JG: I guess. RG: I think JG: Probably, it called it was. I regular don't which come on they break four people stuff. things We a a don't could do second of around the very--I sent us probably used that And a know in two the We what back, dead with a over couldn't put the is. word followed the state think UPI or a then visual around had now. and newscast seconds that do know, little don't I thing a not come you daily montage. shots world. they table and the did headline, a snappy different services The march maybe little a what disastrous then regular Sousa is little around know, together a commercial, our remember We think you sitting like don't called. always give opened something I and I were I for We that. remember. newscasts something They "Weekend"? by maybe those turning a and other globe we evening. montages. Yes, we montage this but music on camera We didn't were couldn't going we and or do did the then come whoever go back to have. a it and I 75 very best professional we right on, was, and forth to mean, could. Then and we'd there open telling later on 1looking we have you were with news. you what Ben began you to JACK GOODMAN have #2 promotion before we developed news as we'd maybe well promotion people Was as Gordon Gordon know. Gordon-- Well, he He also also Owen Gordon Owen the story. stories. Owen. We, dreamed or up newscast, the ZCMI-- And and Mayor Earl J. Glade so. If you so and himself You a know stop precise. we promote 1like--and go with when the various that is to never, watch on the only had at two guys go very were two Moll well. Gordon and Gordon somebody, do and had the same forth for realize--let's say goes with silent footage the ribbon at for least shots Alan, up I to with never and do the Alan could the shot was get a I Gordon to keep 76 one along to back stuff, came it time Alan you networks cutting rolled we got there the of Sunday give had you'd beautifully We and of piece the I'll suddenly written to remember always time know I've a I notion we things clip for news. the the we'd while newscaster? there some you variety. first bright, By little and and don't a there. ZCMI very took spots, film was Gordon was I the did did 1little work Owen it programs And Owen mean, promotion a spot. to I NBC have came Now, spots. the rather able of new time 1list. to timing rough hold very thing JACK GOODMAN #2 really. Well, down, so great deal Alan could Roy TV monitor script was there out on the was what I and he said, it and you problems." not any rate Gordon walk keep yourself And Ben said, because didn't Gordon well, the down he wear wore never he street felt his his had and many carrying hat. 7l we see a his would Gordon mean?" and you can Well, exercise suffer this along exercises. eye you can in At remember He'd foibles. little hat eye Well, glasses." If eye serious having be "What my doing you do he'd back, said, Ben eye as describe look need glasses. hair and he'd monitor the and do from "You glasses, wear seeing way muscle, can wouldn't Owen a is eye "The 1look and Larson "I'm "What said, Ben And exercises." you Ben said, Gordon And doing?" you are And day so And down. look he'd and up, look there. see he'd and out, look He'd exercises. the you'd can I what doing desk his at sitting hall, the through walking are and eye, one Well, monitor. desk your of corner the a had we camera the at up look of was monitor a finally we of sort the slow having time, that By up, was And this. was. in speed Gordon doing the and himself, well. sunk to supposed rapidly very problem the little were pace trouble of what realized could cold healthier weather if he JACK GOODMAN RG: Handsome JG: Handsome this you #2 gquy. guy, nice other foible remember it. piece of who I If point of a to wrote a view, piece piece and or whoever the next governor--maybe know. Alan might the piece. he got to deliberate. for In instance, paper (or like the Gallivan) event that say, was whose he if some wanted an was the same disagreed with it somebody it to another to do with the to do with the guy. Pope. Pope, I to 78 his a 1little you knew that, the tone Well, I mean had we Pope in a the notion state Linford, would or they let's give that Ted Long Linford's. Ernie If television. with thing when been Kretchman from and voice on, you story, a of Alf Eisenhower--I written that, say which Landon or Ernie Alan with national and different may do Fitzpatrick editorial oh, to to a an ga&e department or had with I in have local opposed be sneer sure you if was business conference write to it editorial opinions Well, give the if wasn't may in Tribune, utterly editorial It newspaper about it a the editorial an had time have say, one-- I'm well having Landon don't that or fit let's a one--this remember. didn't Democrat by this about you that was except was news announcer's Moll guy you'd did a piece that had had footage that had it was I don't know, JACK GOODMAN but #2 it's way back 1950. And Gordon piece." You know, talking about around this opened and way, up then that. you And I Gordon said, enemy. The something that went said, I said something I mean I in don't China, else, aware of the Well, the almost wouldn't explained is He Church be, about, you with Gordon. never had enough need a another know. a me a word. a better camera, engineer named we budget more And all this trouble Mindzenty, sure like Anyway, I that the that was on to equipment. I and apologized seemed and he's Mormons." mind, expanding Gunderson, orders Gordon, even it or "Gee days. kept arch expunged." Gordon's for And like, got sect blew Now, of were, not our issued Cardinal I'm of to just it He's with "sect" thing as you like disguise," "He's do Church, come?" they're in said, to something "How know it's which Catholic said, something existence was I in or devil know. talk the so want piece live you that. word it Pope there don't a and the Poland whatever Rome was "I was Jack, even in it "Okay." Pope Mormon Gordon said, the "Well, like the to when my news. me. and one We We'd There remember. he We was had Gunderson. TLiz Hal Gunderson. JG: Hal Gunderson and Charlie 79 Stockdale was an engineer JACK GOODMAN #2 and-SEF John Baldwin. JG: John Baldwin know if that processing it when he or not. But o'clock nine staying on mention sign-off a don't his there own was a film know, processing 1lab in news. By that a 1little something he State in it, say, "This is and Building, we'd and over WNEW the play two o'clock now 80 for a New we'd 'Star signing going was I and me We York, we've don't from have show we'd superimpose off to maybe. know, Spangled then or and were to hilarious Baldwin "You says, we rather to John 9:30 the maybe time sign-off. about enough--back exciting maybe was there, coffee, having could said Larson was You longer. that always and Row. time back Ben think I Anderson by film business 1little originally was Movie because day a up film air the One Empire up you needed, put it the get could 2:30--we do set time opened called we got they get--if to to the KSL Lee guess I what on all Charlie--I probably-- Lee Burr And together. were by Somebody Burr and event. began it. for too. and Charlie the engineer. was-- Charlie there chief was need processed, maybe the lab réal a need, was a Banner' our Ted We got an the flag and studios JACK GOODMAN high #2 at--from State our Building'." mountain that And John this." And Ben "Well, on Now, it the the peak. So change I the Mountain the "What not do maps it's the that it was think it name a was Empire name of was a over to mean?" called the up going you U.S.G.S. there the the transmitter "You're fact atop "What's putting says, high 1like He says, Coon Peak." black man owned family named Coon owned at time, they decided that to--what did "From our the to they-- Vision. Mount Mount says, said, wasn't peak, He we're here?" To transmitter Vision. Vision." stations, and They there got transmitters together they were. with Well, high atop the let other me think now. RG: Was this the first television news department in Salt Lake? JG: I think dealing RG: There so. Well, with film wasn't there was the first one literally news. before this it and when was all strictly rip and read. JG: It was were in rip the and read little building they were on--when they on-- Regent. Regent Street, not such 81 a 1little building. Dell JACK GOODMAN #2 Leason the was the news radio station, at television. that back. And all up the stand. on and a talking still about did the station Well, say to they still ripping when to go hired and run pictures reading put about that Ranger what Time-Life dissatisfied at did could was Danny Fox Dell and They it ask that Syd it, put But really also do something. up. decided He over, you're know for therefore, could or were They and they Truman I director run Truman but director. manager had, have dissatisfied. news He'd of there, a think, Let's picture they I they crude--you'd RG: editor, and bought Ben big time and Alvin Pack as was hired a station and-- Alvin--didn't Alvin manage the managing the radio station? Orfwashit-—= No, that's right; And Ben Ben himself himself he radio station. managed-- managed Who programming. was was TV, set helped Alvin but up the director? program Ranger-Danny Ranger director, television director Regent and was he station, when Street. they They'd was were do 82 director program I sure. at became Danny there. think the he little theatrical was program for program building things. the They on had JACK GOODMAN #2 Jelesnik was pretty, there were Wayman and Tom 57, suntil until and-- With and and do There with news, if a I There that sort. there in But news about 1950, announcers. There was a Leeson would news. Dell were more did a radio, and he'd he And was we guy, Richardson. of Tom do came-- Wayman was was Regent I do You '57. mentioned Lee When would Net Joe Things additional news. Dell music. weak. on-the-air Not, RG: playing had I to, "Today on was in come than the I've West." into the studio of Arthur television. remember, that people by when the they name were over in the studio. don't remember him. Emerson-- Emerson Ted Kimball? No, Ted was KSL, wasn't Yet, Channel you JG: Smith get any at the 4 other had kinds of things. station. don't left 4 before that think unit, mobile a to opportunity I used feature-ish it? Roy, they did so. What that thing mostly for 83 use was that hugé a in news? happened was very active. promotions or Did truck.s for I think I I think remote-- JACK GOODMAN RG: But weren't riot? Or JG: RG: #2 The was was Doug Mitchell after Ben I had went and from guess I Dell news I was at out you Larson 4 people one after That Well, there first that Channel JG: you were somebody left 4 on. sort of went inside a assignments a and first page were sound and on New York honchoed it himself for riot, it. By office. I T I the almost know. time had together. functions two to you have Before were I making that remember we'd make--you had or five carbons. One had one, four the had announcer or one You it. that had newscast seconds, there 84 the the news on think were actual director I at prison thing control, in was you the You Wayman I about that whether film. the "that chief timings fifty-eight something was had that stories like the guess I for there. my master to go would it did but about of that out the together. book carbon 'at putting mountain? one Tom put way and read would to the prison the and there, 1like of that that's I stories things in because down still point of left? left who time the Leeson writing doing at had didn"EVge.""I"wastnot remember the it the something. the and list the of guys The the timings one minute thirty or was S.0.F., whether it was in that top sheet. JACK GOODMAN #2 Then you more than list on right, had a a page you the left side and if introduction had a to have little coming the mostly kind out with himself intro. and the Sometimes it talk five for and close it election thing. I'd what we a minute. pasted started Larson cut him Jim or we'd film there formal say Don camera have to going to interviewed. let And the together all was just you'd was a didn't being interview, one sound intro was and was the He the that an or intro. had sitting it take you remember then--let's could little knew We're by you so can an end next I unless was the the the the guy back open together a and after Chubb. live the first that was a in New coverage of return. that Yea, half it Ben and he minutes, after stuck Adolf You a it. on it at all took short stuff S.0.F., about it little film when even guy wasn't the typewriter there a and of But He start minute JG: side was film, knew physical Christianson be guy really the on if a verbal sound of or with the on That's interview. the and words the story, that was last so each had sound punching of read RG: for cue for there the up. about page I been I do guess at the remember, Ben had Tribune 85 done when it we effective very York. covered I mean, elections. JACK GOODMAN But #2 we had a time--I don't Deseret News were not he'd believe in "We're "Fine." said, going got to was in five Frank were being report and And Oh, years of and that's So I "Well, know I quite 86 Tribune's I'd few rate that or remember of are the guys that would counties in had what-have- the happened "There We people for been Frank had I This that's well, many around a Well, the Moab thing said, it?" full-time We how and that, said, remember. towns, running I don't space one said, say, Ogden. didn't know, almost and Ben let's legislator. after you Locally with little said, each and a Ben of I in variety counties. counties, City, at business interviewing had, cities paid so We do 4 Partly he election." world, wire. then. rival. Tribune the swords' Tribune by a that and at because as next the somebody a it the Cedar major from there?" nine on Art saw the Tribune the partly by between were but does national, in the to this "How was They word he cover said, like many Partly come but running staff correspondents." about this was because situation 5, naughty lost "The to Jensen you. a it. He trouble the Channel Deck going of cooperative. was because what and Art television deal know very points. I great all are about Tribune not too twenty- twenty-nine legislators JACK GOODMAN that get #2 were a report we'll and running." contact we'll they dollars." I couple Lord than of if I him, "Are your wife?" was The in knew they you He every to problem wasn't the there were something dollars We'll like right do game." think, it. cooperative sat and Ben We'll beat was system got where the not we results, ask votes, or Anderson I think it was the last 87 election people. to the went 350 cost. it's own cooperate. set to have before or be the at to I and the been that. RG: of. districts they must budget of "Hang going all him lot in contacted Ted Tribune before phone can going said, the and counties, was But this Roy, a voting there. was knew in, think and 350 that we counting twenty-nine and to phone Oh, Ted that, Tribune The I'd When twenty-nine could over and be somehow we office, it liable we what-have-you? legislature, was So, be phone to "Well, report. "Okay, legislator, going Or said, said, each are how clerk's will town the problem and a that know he they'll bucks." in And for in "Ben, don't county dollar once." who the dollar, hundred knows mean, a "I towns." figure said, times a final said, like them them I those people the pay more of pay get we'll a out But that. up I this Tribune before JACK GOODMAN JG: At #2 any rate, was a the big kind Ben of tablets above side one these notion. Ben showmanship girls they of and had arranged and would the camera have lines never at I he them. up would high and get it them a cable set as we could wangle. Tribune's would get would put basket that which a the also effect in too. election into as AP 88 and names, this level numbers, and mean Ted either he and incoming many was Ranger above--I I phone UP or AP that you were getting Let's say the Tribune in Ogden. districts story, their Meantime, a pretty Butler on these had each in Danny up and sex. We figures seven write with up meant stand below little and or brilliant Whatever remember so, Ten time 4--Gay he and under this have. don't things so the Channel They were pad got all found, a which Ben paper District a of Either had There had would knows no which sides it. districts you then got service the And else give we and working would up--oh, thinking I reach to Ogden Lord for on on. set three something, or a blackboards election Lake was design maybe numbers 105 things. them. managed say Salt anybody a wrote way. around pinned like--or of Anderson maybe we you of something in with or that Ted platform it--let's west one a studio blackboards had and the he'd UP put got the and A guy carbon took up JACK GOODMAN #2 to office, it's the wire. also So we getting infinite and then were their behind our own around the voting districts. There office named Lil couple of call state other would say I've and 110 on a it to got for to on on however, and he'd say, Project!" project we had were, five do a what in Ben 1946, and I'd basis that showed formal to or look be us How something, 89 and top not did as would Lee this we'd give whoever the to on last a a put and As knowing was. When Alan things you what a Leeson, girls. us and guy We'd these of 350 Bracken Dell "Ben, us or business a listening election up. the reading the places machine, Jay were evening the was. on ahead of in for maybe say, these keeping, down on all Ogden, guy was would "They're the minutes Lil the It while evening the so radio, and can't year's would how so. really what." district against on caused machines. from other around them the book the we districts adding 300 it what out adding say put but is lady an election, Well, on a had write the went had that walk camera's voting districts, sheet they'd from was let's whoever somebody Moll, the in, 10 reporting 300 girls come tally was from Lil. this started calls and Tribune, Now, We phone rewrite the figures. confusion. getting they'd Well, figures take in you Logan they're JACK GOODMAN #2 doing now. Besides, districts that. So thing had projected saying, "In expert. first We time. So would we're so a'igreat deal come out election the UPI the Deseret a wouldn't was voters We radio the UP there could News and INS. want already from to put difficulties but we somehow up maybe bill of 750 'did late was Ted kind ‘ef taking AP. Hemstreet, Ted got off" frem Telegram, total there out. was you because were Ben you INS was it and If behind. always which doing the Tribune, dollars 90 we INS lucked that but air mean and had and I so we night, your Ted Then days into total. back. knew that in those those the are in you in a there the an realize were was INS so to They the as a it. " hevd® station radio doing was was he that pretty heads. began squeeze was it then on a ordinarily than stayed 'staff¥atall whatever and a usually ourselves our of out Malmquist use that's difficulty fine. way, "Well, is have but of gradually 'of while kind more N. anybody projected we'd and had®™no heard We projecting district By say, O. to many write which seemed have how abreast We'd County," have know keep roughly. Weber we'd quite couldn't very didn't didn't district." we Democrats We Anderson so "the lead." didn't reported, we Democratic, good we great would more it than run we JACK GOODMAN #2 budgeted, but happened was, election, Tribune that was prior to the to see how headquarters, would come down figures over, the they'd happened. By on the 5 was on wasn't. then had this You come back. pretty good indication television. those the It people way periods. really handled they Before began that, they'd 91 time buy this the around was 5 not, or there got politicians on interviewed It lose. during in the in of a was power the then, adds Then paper. to say, to ever if all or and get had time difference a at and know the go let's and rolled getting of, the Well, that all of win buy 1look at they time themselves to had looking election know, made They over even they'd then they'd them don't phenomenon turn, in one each the By the walked election first that to Somebody paper. time station-to-station to walking I down Tribune also of next street. at 2 certainly you same Hall Social the time the that down. the they first the was which figures during They'd day's shots got we And 4. Channel that headquarters, into that, thing running. walk phone next only not was Tribune. come for and went they'd they'd taken did they time always the always strange election count but and picture their the to The that politicians their end fine. of way course, political the papers JACK GOODMAN and some mean a #2 spots television couple remember One of was not time really things that really here. I the Now, it's you'd I was or I the Grand out a way Gorey-used had a ran Tribune Baldwin-- Jim spread, first-page at Hayes the remember York. Tribune the I town. the worked was were in New over I and something Ben correspondent ones, in collided that it. There news back another, about own. television pictures the was remember, vacation or top-to-bottom, full into planes Time secondary the came on two got Hayes that when was the and made somehow whoever--or radio that happened that and the of them Canyon. or on Baldwin? Jim Yes. it Laid Tribune the Jack RG: was really got a Pulitzer. but Baldwin, why degree that was had this picture They taken--Jim-- had White a to It out. his name to call was Jim--what wasn't his first name. JG: used we Yes, Trib. were or two I else, anything And we covering from got for Hayes, picture me--Don so we 92 the won think, a lay-out the rate any But something. else, something him had or two or well as Pulitzer for the the guys who of Christenson very as fatty good got photo a picture coverage JACK GOODMAN that #2 day the and very network York. I What did even taking Both with Both with By there and 4 shooting the at Cedar City and got hired the television at yes. for the time. 93 the time was at for stringer the and after Times was--by I my not big time, for air then and 4 to But when a that was he and Jack rate, director. news as idea the sure went he and left, he station. any At there. wasn't up aircraft an I'm then. light hired a sent never as Well, 727, that was the had certainly and that did Jensen out we quit, and airport Boeing it feet Tribune pictures television. and their the think I on, indignant at He with was Frank money indignant, later New vacation. Awards, Frank and Jack on in indignant. Pulitzer impractical were The occurred. done the was was got course And-- time Helicopters I I and way the that Ei it. White aircraft Trib. the plane. But Of Tribune. the down got with in coverage. too. Jack pictures. rushed I though, light a door 2 do mentioned in sitting to to it photographs--see the got on-the-air covering nothing that was was had wasn't good Frank I was 2--he was not for us, crash out at yea. anybody else at the JACK GOODMAN RG: Now, #2 the 1955, And Grand '56 the That I in television at went. guess, airport was one places. We then, what First, JG: JG: Well T so Roy. how to You were had any Yes. guess calls. still maybe to: we See I did it there it up to and if processed all the and many do it we did pretty the time. 4 really Now, was-- at Channel that television in the this news? brag. I first gather don't know. newspaper But guy I think that knew news. one that I remember who experience. in did budget, that going capacity film City the weren't get one--only only journalist What me themselves we the to about more-or-less the certainly the tenure serious was or left way Lake I somehow 2 to Salt like, things thinking your don!'t were I have a happened became 1956-- Those picked have have in about 1963. They didn't were time yes. time didn't wasn't first area the We been about cover airport. didn't fast. was to physically. RG: thing learned by have yes. '60's We we would the the Even it, Canyon a way, at would [END and first, 4 be--you OF 94 TAPE] I don't remember, was listen know at the to and police Tribune-- I THIS IS THE THIRD INTERVIEW WITH JACK JULY 28, 1986. THE INTERVIEWERS GIBSON. [TAPE NO. 3.] JG: —--police one. got receiver And it at was a into the problem that developed--I that partly an paEtly® anVoutgrowth'™of' then they See it the game left, outgrowth people visually. from which things than that time I along the and even they were in other where I going?" I guy, to come places, you Dave work 95 said in and be- the 4 working, were three better thinking, older, to fatal I my very "How us and and nice, for I Well, street, effect, of time or to was and name two got the was happening. the wages me--work It years. very was for was doing which front happened, know--getting down the could Channel I major it many the One the until at though Dave and was maybe concept changed how Evans, W. David it hard, walking I'm [léughter] persuasive like am And that. future. know line, once while It news. had entered don't had in ‘that what really I anybody news--was the fact it TV IS ROY true. newsreel see extraordinarily encountered you So in with ‘the see think least the to at "God, all was thought, of to the go DATE AND s.ituation. at to wanted wanted someplace I visuals THE LARSON It's worked everybody, wanted And don't fender-bender office, done. I TIM benefit. us realization ARE Four, real GOODMAN. on would some JACK GOODMAN, #3 projects, doing, They not in had day-to-day effect, about three upper-Colorado Aqualantes. films is what and client, Utah-Idaho client, the strange situation himself a an need all in wrote advertising to do with the growing beets, etc. But they can footage--black of thousands with you of process feet any concept know, they Hodgson, in way So which and, of copy. white, footage, it Snarr the Aqualante footage. Some of and was it they wanted 96 but to as a was a still developed shot of that of had they had sugar can of had upon They I had virtually thing. it make had bad, films and nobody together. they a fancied had They was some as had stuff there. there, good, had footage and put West color--thousands Glen else the manufacture well, who He script. were, taken stuff, guys remember how they He'd ordered to it They Evans good on and as had the no how the and had Washington indifferent, of up Dave he and and set Sugar stuff, had had Utah-Idaho advertising every The water somehow. agency. way. Company, that film-maker the stuff. people. are documentaries." wanted, for that Sugar turkey He they "We under they And said, call things mess; the He would major Remember? different pictures. you river documenting work." mean, Jimmy working I all don't this some of it out of it JACK GOODMAN, that #3 could clubs, be having sugar. So these I couldn't a it in the and valley were got Dave's a down there tape "Oh waves grain." down into and the amber We the beet sugar. House and 0ld Mill beet cube factory plants grain and to stuff put together stuff processing; sugar; making granulated flumes and over Nyssa, the i/ for amber skies growing to shots Oregon, and of the making plants they we Sugar harvest; sugar; sugar of mountain sugar liquid the all kind but switch and to [laughter] purple sugar; valleys, over- spacious beet and After then historic and to something, doing shot, had cut or the pioneers Got and it And the up airplane skies, that. came and Choir. spacious among these them Evans, and [laughter] and all of the and L. you airplane fields with fields are began sugar for open waves majesties--what valley, Richard that We of on Tabernacle beautiful got snow fertile was singing, the the an pictures with to got beet through finally notion. We of film So style took are of brother of and business, running of almost. Rockies then and yards film. in manufacture down Hollywood sat shown the and together, more flying with sitting 1little approaching schools, yards great somebody and do and piece this shoot to in remember yards with shown had finally and sugar got JACK GOODMAN, #3 together about closed with spacious Saying the things. went and what had a lot of didn't all fit, cut a;—when the told somebody then that be grow various also later I [laugh] whole Clyde me, and that we I etc., in Utah it and to of I with for them. And We as I told me store in was the going soil to then was river into the don't know that and in favor Seemed for of the sold by logical to completely etc. and had on stuff, was I jobs 98 put the Bureau film films. out the out of they heartily so me, Evans, needed came going courses, been these script, we power down golf to a if were and And Evans. color, beet know, Utah have Dave sugar go at The Project--several and for of in and recreation to three now--propaganda you in know. did for thing. you Bureau. wrote electric crops But, it that make would you on recently, Valley by script, same I all the we River--through the Snarr several for thing and beautiful or Colorado River going thing. first Oh, the two Glen water "Oh, reality, Wasn't back with film. on you--with and and water Coachella have this dams the edited up a for the Colorado wound to was think also out it's footage. and you Upper these now down rapids went footage that minute thing--with We enough So we maybe same effect, was Then forty-five skies." in there a the growing JACK GOODMAN, #3 generation including job someday. was a And very in That might a hat, in quite impressed remember you Lake the scene quietly presented friend he was Jackson, up there of Harold named Salt for the buying up to and Fabian, in heartily and I got actually he favor up for knew of there the 99 on on a filming was which then it Knopf was was going story or of Shane, ofi two. the a and Rockefellers, the what was--do attorney the Service. Park that in which Hole a wrote gentlemen family Rockefeller National the a was who Valley, something was There shirt, I and was He West. actually was it named western or I United the Monument to that. gentleman the a in are campaign. in in Jackson Jackson know publisher books Jackson, Fabian I you fine to Fabian? Harold time, down What Alfred. this go about Times the thing up or what-have-you, or to liked and about York out come He'd fan. western building stories second interested a you erudite, of get If about New a 1line very was dam president. with to thing. give Along for best the Knopf western can very a going the Stevenson's friendly publishing States. I been Knopf, Alfred was important running have oddly became and [laughter] was who all-in-all, stories, everything. Stevenson son that, vital interested my up I at got first JACK GOODMAN, time I went valley the up pretty there. well, opponents know, you #3 there got Service and I I the a ranch to buy it. Well, a piece or Jackson Hole of might any they Those Service, and happened up feel there, the Jackson views Hole in and letter be publish "If saying, I which book in wrote a would come out my here, you life. and ever 100 about John Oakes, quite hints Had 1lands as to the front doubt At any glad know is great At the rate, any me it. flattering except looked best Knopf up, book, a and it see to of about write to were rate, very not town of no a that which of be he a earliest way. want [laugh] the Park I'll then Fabian, pro-National me sending Park too. now just If interviewed same in it. knew was valley you mean, it," that You National Times rather turning. by picture about 1little signs was valley. editor me There's and Knopf the extension neon it way guest. my an park. the into came with the the That's see proponents the wanted out the the give still private--you'd want Times they know animus editors, He'd to the of turned I of for The wanted--who pieces the rate, two conservationist--one what got taking not Sunday conservationists. I into deal problem. the ran great you then park a did one and of was But I never Knopf and we JACK GOODMAN, #3 went to up Jackson Monument Valley authors, John the Indian country them very anti-dams in Evans by came this out time about recreation. their The side Park Dam. how that Now, when Reclamation. because valleys; in of It in say It wasn't. some Reclamation that's you Colorado, and was identified, for the river Yampa and the was bitterly there's this was the near rivers. opposed Echo at And to, 101 dam you bottom was mountain North men it's Bureau of 1lands and overall junction that was so was right It's the a of one Knopf park those South the Dam. and think Park. Park on Echo Echo in and had called and he called called Park called unfortunately, as junction--pretty the they at river, region was private It the whenever that Park anti- working the It Lands. what know Echo very am jobs you was was a and of about be thing one do to of Because Knopf was some be I thing best to with need to proved arguing there park. Knopf who very knew City together unfortunate was national Bureau we I Here down his River. River. I'm of Brigham DeVoto, footage went mean, Colorado Colorado this I rate, Bernard we one this any the was putting and a in the And, At and with from around. authors dams together Hershey. took his together, the that Park And it plans at the Green DeVoto therefore. JACK GOODMAN, #3 Well Knopf's got this picking was He great up also saw was you became the Clyde a billboards if lands with a Knopf was thils brilliant Times, at Alfred is get point we'll be you know. There of I a if red able J. you Edgar could you two was his face eyes head. Now, Knopf or since, who down and sides to in was had 102 arm, At and@ ot together. it my any for wife, the "Now, who get governor. the talk had black a in a this, question." rather the angry and has about every get much movies, especially white to the top only man I Dundreary the Christenson of someone the on Fabian, that [laughter] And his them to I'll he'd Utahn. Governor under out pro did. somgplace, invite man a pictured Don I service assistant. said remember your before a park time. bring And sit before bald I Kennedy--if see go storys I'll to was and was DeVoto way, will view. say, If to And are should temper. named of He trip, he's the office alhgood and say at the I the because than his a who blueprints out rate. And dams of or coming coming, different for by man, any Jackson sheaf And make Fabian governor «idea. Besidesiiantll to Harold engineer. remember. rate, Knopf, the great P.R. in day differently was his one dams--the rather Governor out idea. the pro it Clyde coming whiskers. getting of his ever saw He had a JACK GOODMAN, beard kind #3 sort of -and of--not above when his at the feeding Alfred was Hotel Utah, and the Governor, this connoisseur." want to here pick the Liquor and the or and wine. [laughter] House. This license, said wine. to of looks [laughter]. hope ever, for Alfred etc., etc." liquor I know a So I 103 tell select in the Sugar the license. I good wine go from with honored "There How in the he going up whiz. a "You world bad And isn't said, a chicken to." start He "Gee Alfred had whiskers said, chicken store 1list." business. out a be this way the have "I'll said, at have to don't to said, his off a had would and and you think he in honored you list And I but I your fine. mind Alfred, stop So, when don't but to the staying cook, going day don't that tourist to he's gourmet on end watch. a are most on to and House down guardsman- "I Alfred [laughter] "I wine respecting the course. the down be get in "I'll and We says, being Sugar he'd We is one cacciatore" in wine. said Alfred, Pick You and Fabian, of something." this, he Mr. says, wine. Store pick cacciatore She a stand here, Marjorie reputation wine came intriguing gets and of they'd rather Alfred that over--kind mad, old has State and got It Well, beard--whiskers chin Knopf [laughter]. [laugh] a selfpeople can you [laughter]. JACK GOODMAN, It's #3 a state with liquor ¥uthe agovernor." reprehensible out store. wine I you can." the house, and Fabian, and I think dams that day. Mormons, what possibly--now did he would he not the or he a say, "Well, good wine, he's They'll order matter of wine is this was whole the middle. turned darn just the When they from the water, his you as can for you can't have because they a would special Liquor say, Store. "Yes, know Russia on governor pretty to teeth people--you select argument he "How you only and went it's what educated?" evening, discussion 104 Not State would been back drink. the to will haven't was Fabian How you liquor And the Knopf could say, sell tell how because wants to and just when wine." And they governor along the got it." the you and liquor, ice this there the between here unless education. if drink went about with not least we said and would somebody just do problem And is was did And Knopf did. on, restaurant and if to would business profit had listened. restaurant the word [laughter] evening. got good the ice tourist haven't need as whole expect a the he he a Clyde the the governor going Governor drink, crack spoke was raise "Pick So the Everything and can said, to don't You a Any much a good rate, except and someplace got too Russia, and hot, the JACK GOODMAN, #3 governor started but we never, wasn't even the Colorado only experience [laugh] Any on, like Central I never stuff. a wrate I " the Temple it a Temple first and I my that.' like account then, and Council, Jim and newspaper Parade; they etc., and mean for I a we was did like they was Cannon of 105 pretty felt on at much <church on [laughter] to me of what people beauty 'gee, maybe things .Evans of like I did had the Tourist Council called the Tourist Council the them. that. the pottage pamphlets for advertising shots and basically, plus The 'the got sometimes mess guess we did thing. explained virtues I But stories things the and I or Mormon, a time Z.C.M.I. I for my say. And kind ones. was Evans. of did but that, which they odd, [laughter] things strange the 1let's hard-sell being I soul the was that for that not coming marriage. or of It Evans. things Now, was, Temple for Russia, Central--it rate, anniversary film: little marriage sold strange couple marriage. was going did the project. working did to publisher, was--booklet specials--I trip to Any the hundredth it his got compact. I'm do about Utah with rate, the us never River and whatever tell never, upper goes to And director for They Manny of the them, and got a Floor Travel I section was did in working JACK GOODMAN, #3 at at Evans the time, Korologos--they like that, Clyde was more and governor. or think was Cannon was Of in worked Jim it through. he less suddenly I was and on this, with me and on decides to Tom things run for governor--yes--governor. course Lee, I guess Lee for governor. by then mayor. Yes. And Cannon decides couldn't hold a and also run for his duty during the three for a the to state little as or it Travel So Council they took a Well, Director released leave of he him from absence for something, and they're looking so I the Travel Council was just building on became after top of they had Capital moved into that used Hill be-- The one they called --which used to then the not was knew that I like that, which had very what and been the of o0ld a moved they a Council station shambles when things be police battered I job the--he neutral and run governor. months Director, to we good to it. Hall. city was thing dreamed up by was a for vafious I remember except and things unfortunate slogan pamphlets the and Director Council had time, It used already 106 one door. one Well, about at next building Travel do hall Jim Cannon--"The JACK GOODMAN, #3 Different to be World kind the of a was kind seemed World me would on might of all period of about the there which this the office a bureaus. in Salt one Times stuff point, the strike. Any etc. that Times I in rate, to don't bureau on strike. know 107 one what in recall this office with and chair day when is Walley broke things here. Could you persuade be bureau a boss my West. You know, year it in San for the one L.A.; the office. one to was that swivel never ought it I which a Wally do a Times Newsweek had is in or handsome, there Could Denver; that the wanted here. the or Times Francisco; big Always during very sitting see mean get in greatest Floor and comes Well, bureau Lake; I'm someplace Director's desk it never Manny I building, boss [laughter] the that And was Well, "The thing and which with Travel enormous Times a the remodeled an bit me something But I to "Entering world?" been other Council had York get have the is or up and New never came time, my by might still signs, well. Korologos. what-have-you. up very we seemed somehow. Tom is up different been and Turner. put ploy, this, Travel Now, mean, sell It always Utah," churchly earth." have You of you a middle snow do of to Utah"--which mistake. Different people--"What the of At there was, but this was a this JACK GOODMAN, #3 sort dates of nine-month or strike just just edition because western addition. Wally the strike No, town. to town. big thing that a he and there, leave to put oughta He book. I in Salt Lake like our happening the blacks. the doorway standing in Georgia or--you know. was so it somebody Eisenhower's Jjust is had But the suggested 108 that, never "You'll have never right." [laughter] properly. it Mormon The he mentions in Havana. me You things of kinds whether know school the at I stories news don't as in conflict had erupted. when this erupted, administration contemporary the "You'll all I This sitting me sees man time, about they're It this by rate, any At know. are man to come about fuss think good come McKay. O. the in He's He's call very our in. remember Establishment, as space the of later book a wrote Wally said, could I of said. he one if tape on western and "You're said, I that's rate, any Well, job." this?" like desk this the big in god," with David the "My Western yet. on wasn't says, up walking walking comes Wally comes a a kinds all made set it about underwent happy interview to remembering they'd very getting I'm going blacks. want became We're the is I I'm Times after Edition, as maybe the rate, any at But wrong. things with you all know, this, the and Mormon JACK GOODMAN, #3 church's views and Turner good." of the slaves as Main. You Flake or And put it material Baptists know, all There going of had all had--I'd this, down an but the be pure stuff gotten off Wally said, church appointment Well, to and in are the no Klu the the and position with David 109 a light what on O. the and Chad black. The the is about, Klans and and first This were as Mormons maybe Southern or things from the Indians had are and and black Temple story 1Indians "Now, were Biblically, blacks the they that blacks together who sub-section Klux that members the blacks. way members out who on the or South make the but view, and that that. place--the what-have-you will on, at was area are little awfully black black were a together anti-black special someday like Mormons few monument is some members names there this a peculiar, effect Millcreek black the in are were of little that--sounds what the who's Monument, point rather in a on there There were are. that Mormon it is story that out the not like a together somebody were, being blacks descendants Place I put Holladay. the the I the "Get church towards were said, So background on Lamanites, the Lamanites delightsome--and Wally got blacks." McKay, and in. to do So we We about two or story we came I is pin we made got over JACK GOODMAN, #3 there. I mean, made the very easygoing write at be never be a of McKay if he was had. he on not he mean, a in effect, not say to Tribune kind Latin church that." I to going never sure mean, I wanted Tribune, Wally said He had to pick up of an embarrassing a day to he Times the or blacks situation. "No. do you Wally got what the and the later I a the said, on two had pass anyway." I said, We "What said, the ever Hayes did." and it about said 110 for although Tribune, and "He to sounded we've the said, And going he as and skin. not And Gorey they, America is to what know, revelation back Hayes story it a they'll dark president went the it? page had have that." use said front leader I for rather can about South revelation. a Hayes a they that You and ever hammering What a told I position situation and something, me that the I a America." to and me--I'm position have is unlike kept church. about Wally nice church was mission contretemps. story out South liberal didn't the they Wally your the remember, little in there was Well, it sorry tells you. your Americans in as still I'm South unless as "He a said change it Is in had thank is Wally somebody say welcome probably because If saints. doing lot I "Now, never then guy. down. them. by were appointment, it you're they don't which know JACK GOODMAN, if #3 that was what Washington or Somewhere Yeah, for that George Hatch again, I've or and set up happy they But beg and knees like that over to Mitchell to Channel 2 Brent 2. was to their hand old-fashioned a piece of Kirk entire news television copy, read 1 or it, come said, and a it's Evans, their on come "Oh, on. don't You I went manager. Doug So very Doug-- And department. radio over work. of lot well." a the "That's down station him--was to it the was you With get that stuff that with exciting. more fun--it's There had said, I am. I and Gallivan awfully an they but plead, it's "Look." "Would exactly didn't things people what doing initial relationship the means It working said, and me department." news I'm Evans--Jack effect, in time Gallivan--maybe Kearns advertising got you've and more You'll have grab go Washington for the Jack of the Said a up understood order. of easier." hold that 2. kind a this wound David at never tough pretty an worked by Evans, two got of ownership I David Tribune, I'm to to are-- you Maybe When at year a after 2 deciding went things way, next. 2. did I that to the comes Channel the Hayes these But along but Hayes you? didn't JG: not, after. shortly precipitated able way. almost guy Doug and could memorize JACK GOODMAN, #3 it--not quite could just picked up had in radio fire but there thing was I assignments Did Tl Jack He JG: Then he got a Jack L He JG: By came became was James And Yeah, 4, way, was they over on They had a had one, a had a all. So the up kind had police and fatal they we did always was make know he Jack or Bolex, first of an White. 4? to when 4 you with left, me. but Yeah, equipment head there. he stayed than cameraman He was at as Jack the it White. station were. We had. Chaunces 4. yeah. getting there didn't they was He'd year. film the not at the one more was remember, to they at he footage. there news you any think and But was Tribune if I film and if the how. He and out director only lot Powis I go news for much as White way. it, reading. know little, that. thing, became there like not did, that somebody stuff not don't because send or had rephrase He's the'Tribune, thing could I very from call they radio. was He'd that. they There stills it. with newscast camera. a go it what memorize left back when I I leave, when was I 112 4 for there, think, was-- Yeah s rights to till a and minute, so after was I Paul Welti. left. JACK GOODMAN, TL: --news 5 #3 director offered them friendly in they'd meet go the and an things went then, the by then I LS The what don't That year know. about been was We'd in was It to How long I had stayed little were 1lot better. Right been the scared or good of the about earthquake down in pretty whomever that well. up to story. about right that one Lake thing. better than Hebgen stations remodeled Got look [laughter] now. up-have Would twenty years maybe. and that '64--in '62 to and they away talking have a 2 White street fresh--a was pretty promised to about three come for years. 113 four About a York. New '64 In '64. period--maybe there? you in ill were mother about in 2 Channel quit I sixties. father my when a twenty--a the I rather remember three and have went. we was ago--twenty-five, JG: it Jack are earthquake must I the all at be station together because sent in other; rate, there when we Yellowstone. JG: any to street. other young things way, studio the being put the used weather each Yellowstone basement About from But Things on the at on. they Tl do and studios; And way and water there bucks. odd weatherman being in bigger out throw up there. years? year, The and reason I think being, I I JACK GOODMAN, #3 couldn't really Brent The He Kirk didn't offered me everywhere. JG: happened well and New you Dad become camera up about politics Doug flat says, "I ear," or says, "I'm gradually was was I'd doing take left, have Doug up there. refused up in for not were who part met news was I over. guess. followed my old, my you It we more capital. You'd send and talk become camera competent. news with my hand don't Art Kent, my to." He I Well, else." part He behind want going, were things And director. somebody Find Mitchell doing very employing Doug were was that. rather So that "I a in time. Doug says, was ill upsetting on He were over He And and of died. get to kind pretty father idea state going folks would radio, how it didn't. the and got of director. at I pretty was something. a policeman he I'd Marjorie's a it remember don't Yeah. was up out grew It fact, news things was, Mother In then, the the--to could kind know. about more I feel died; period. and get after there to That should to until job. me cancer. right And the began York. got die to grade, trying anybody [laughter] What aging get but we Art was time. I'd-doing time Art, I think, someplace, 114 when and on casts news I he was always 4. Channel a cop, liked and Art. I He JACK GOODMAN, #3 seemed to able. me And had right Doug. to a into the director that you might even their Bill Marcroft? little Bill ever did to be lot Art got same and more, and remember apt and Williams very and Dartmouth--they and I college. I finally left 1like I which Bobby so both Art was eased Art led Smith there The that people and one only job on of maybe bad Art them are thing you Kent." for a while. [laugh] of a hard taskmaster kind They Art got for a guys. had a picture toilet in it. seat I But, up on the wall with [laughter] I competent, very there. of either Jack. dumped Kent was he think "God, you there Kent's out school, [laughter] those Well, to the job, say, like Somebody gone or more was, a of very Williams Marcroft. would not he'd and sportsman-- both did JG: gone camera away, doing Yeah, on Either were--had Bl good guess I At was there I rate, any felt. two years, maybe. R During that nature of anchors of and JG: Yeah, I and it you're period, the three I think would stations. three the it talking stations was be. 115 Ray about the Somebody Doug together. Thompson at KSL. friendly got the Mitchell JACK GOODMAN, #3 T And wrote you thing you JG: that was remember Yeah, odd the designed somehow--not Gallivan in a hold if there seemed that know. I know, a on place. it they a--I that. did when were on the that as a the reason was still reason a we TV style Palace. Do a Roy, were they viable and to battle for a bring while, not and all that maybe We you visioned be to going It well. as arts did was maybe Fitzpatrick Backman and those people, it was to Salt pushing people if and do arts 1like just not to an gallery that. later had They thing, the then have hall. "The guess Gallivan--and Gus not the was you Palace. something It don't book, I a that I a and art with get thing. then all but other or and be to going alive. hall, wrote thing. complete or that, concert those they'd Salt did of Evans, near Palace, Link" thing, the they one guy darn like symphony first was was Salt have with the for how Missing because it the not mean It Salt community something about "The sports. the project a piece did book They have documentary another be be a--well, or was some should Link" another sell to was promotion after a exactly way--got wrote Missing to another--that I of for that? that's jobs. script you 116 I remember, to keep Lake. downtown There about the the was site. a JACK GOODMAN, There #3 was library talk finally would have been site which would have been a But just how guess, that site But having county the library, further you I memory at put was and 4 I'm mind because the go new city by then up logical cluster. Main Street, a little 2 at working let's a new I for Channel the to scripts, for say 2, we it piece 117 had of have or to for writing about thing have would That construction in one we had it film, a to was And do. something year each of news-in-review. used we now end the at that, at then remember unfortunate other year-end system We'd, concerning quite own the to they a were sure. like things worst me. you not the and a together to going of my the little don't in think like end I on South. things Channel filing looked it went, I downtown Evans? and no maybe whether know, the favorable there. south Third Roy. of it there, 1library was the got rather building remember You it. was value. it the down don't, how building for any where than or or I it and know, for pulling maybe fairgrounds I and It putting city-county JG: that. public about on time before the talk hit Do went where even remember. RG: or down was There far, You went it 1logical too to putting more south. state of seems newscast maybe, and JACK GOODMAN, you'd #3 want could to maybe already reel, it finding not the become guess I But again and and no at of it 4. At those year-end they just go thrown And they would go the no not for we might mean, I review a into you'd new system the--certainly have begun know we Films, university you the filing don't very so reel things away. be later old would 2 those--I at fihat least of department months find then wasvat all two cross-indexing, things; everything. the back had time up. that out, you for wise go cut and use what did. script, useful thing the library or to I and for to have. Along for a JG: about stuff filing Well, the late like that. system for those '60s, Then the they library never started could asking figure out it. year-end-in-review things were--they were-LEND JG: --163, something mother died did When then I SIDE like in come you when Well, OF ONE OF that. I '64 '63, back I know my dad was gone by then. mean I so and again? back came TAPE] I was only gone a couple of months. (O)gl; It L= was only four or five 118 months. When I came back, I JACK GOODMAN, went #3 over and to then little Evans and worked office out went a space or lance almost. And Newsweek, and office kept doing aviation then. I had Saturday of a business People on Saturday Evening concerned. had like I oh heck, I was One in the region; like invented the GteNover the¥snow remember going photographer, itself Evening more. turned the snow. did was, I but rather like on of it that. Glen and later on, got for or going--I doing the liked doing Times back two. The to go out as I was "Young few of a young those them and it work guy was to ‘and T'still with a just dug in the Saturday major Saturday when the dam know what things more don't Times a make 1least, Dam Canyon kept 55O things it, a And free- which and at a a tried didn't dozen, half a was with It a Goat, out they finished finally thing Brighton piece Evening Post They and called quite there a and far was Tote to pieces Post that up into I But, worked. sileigh® and down snew.. it did have articles piece thing features. I did while Times beginning good And write Post people when the to Up." thing doing began Way who like I it could that, kept the great and telephone on Bonnam year their very had a use as a for I Evening Post They named was and payroll where something magazines, a deal and stenographer on assignments. JACK GOODMAN, RG: You've #3 Jjust journalism having about is concerned. made what contribution? or JG: I Is magazines would now. "Oh Well, that's just coming untrained. I that stuff like that to see, know didn't couldn't knew I I anything went but with I camera, a use about it. always 120 felt happened. Tape I left. was I and camera, didn't to I had T Very Wwas that a I color never felt that things." the never mean and I except I "He ways, time use to shots, would. the it it Well, take But hadn't to Ben going order it always how all and now. I out dilaughter] and And different remember certain about I film. with comfortable tape film. in worked always camera set wiped it's thought think, best thing was “ha.! along ever as newspapers seo still phone mean, I beginning, just could a the I I tape. with knew dressed up worked since have the in all someday people then It's I I Or as yourself television said,\I'Ha , pick sooner a Roy. could far came T We'll show see far where? getting that as consider or "Jack, Andil yeah. they'll people in me, you broadcasting? instance, to finlcolerM and was For do would advertising maybe saying said, in technology immediately. hel Where Efeortthiswfact, The Larson everything you it or think uphexcept done to seem write me the knew what I to have a JACK GOODMAN, #3 better guy then me White or Don Christiansen That's partly business mean and in it because New was 1like RG: I they Two it the got into Ne, E .den't that. went Salt But to the other journalism Yeah, newspaper. take out they like that, Chi. The in a at union much, has I pencil the shop or separate assignments. I don't Roy. a think hand, good reputation news. And really seriously you're for newspaper for notion improvement I membership and camera. two journalism for until right instance about I never was I always being--I the background-- in us a mean, industry 121 entry was news, the or or felt You something Sigma Delta little self- You know, of a Ben radio, something. fees member I that insist instance, associations initial the paid a even a television did, I director's television City newspaper had were very that. school. your was But the You not Jack they? so. Yeah. know, did in And the take think on a took know, 1like carried there its to it, it was Lake of begin you up unions. it guys quality grew never contributed is. didn't I You someone photographer. that, I've think for JG: that or you though departments. know a even anything when pictures. different was Tribune, knew York, two there that worthwhile. JACK GOODMAN, #3 guys together get what-have-you. and Murray remember had to but and Ben of too, was military take down Hill, Gladwin Angeles to above Atomic large group guys; we were Bill of that ground test had a New York Times which had to being blown down there Los and guy who the we Times used The guy Lawrence was there. There was large group of this great there 122 to a cover a up set was who person. of was I a one it for and for they'd there I sent We camera of time. Larson pictures know, date Murray Vegas. a thing same around the newspapermen; all Las Baldwin it ifi that the Ben that. think little know, shots seen I the there. was expert You have You Hanson there. at left to all from look stories, didn't a could guys don't department Got award down we You've went I an few defense. civil We apart. that. I was or award, and it news vigorously. test--the village. model got an something. up like bribes win time, mean or of once same I significant went taking did the Chi the person--no, with I someplace. Murray going the setting rather atomic call Delta something of were and for. one with camera do was it think I--thinking the at house, was They did or I worked me, Moller with the There way, do around up, the Sigma television discuss By what local-state and to a TV event, JACK GOODMAN, #3 and Murray put up in it had a star was the the Las [laughter] It put there in bus get hauled radiation that from we disease, shot. were all It's too came back. I was stayed on Murray think I shot. the I so mean, I back." It I was really get to eager told you, authorities, that you'll through And shot, the from colored especially every the hours, morning, glasses, since and then get down 123 a go and Not it. get thing in that I mean it. see have may grandstand, x-miles back look you or all eager to go. to start out at two or five at back get for there he so on were have we'd we'd we and Come defense your turn glassy-eyed, morning, and you and in be Ben civilian the know, you military the be before never and there out wrong it'd and strange a press the I'll think don't but a expensive. this. later awaiting in weeks two almost there maybe Flats Vegas, new Vegas. into blew Las Las or Frenchman's because Riviera." in climb all bright Hotel evening towards with hell "To said, to a high-rise we'd were remember the constantly wind was I canceled. It's morning, blew It direction. can We "There's every out Press. I first and the The shot. sky. the two the Riviera. Vegas was up United commercial. towards and for Hotel singing in We're there to lie four for sleep around a in three swimming JACK GOODMAN, pool #3 and casino, And eat I at some bathing more. remember Bill New look York It Hanson Lawrence--not Times Lawrence-- Bill Lawrence was he was originally one who was with Oh, but I he was Bill studied physics. hotel with was not on Times Bill the New originally Atomic effects "Well, asked are how Bill the and on. guy, and Lawrence--the York Times--the with-- Lawrence. I really And he us ever meant or It's just Speaking of did the I explain how the and none was, or nuclear reminds me 124 a other is the to us was, physics?" or some did. He don't think either nuclear of of in bomb it what many him explain what had that--what us I beyond he few question of didn't. it of all really understood bomb with a quantum can he and down me, first took said think kind of you sat because Baldwin, works, all really what to these--his We don't it name we Hill, how many his remember Lawrence and thing. "Well, I got Gladwin together, such and the broadcast Lawrence room. and put on into see. Atomic guys went go ABC. But Right, or editor-- with ABC just Baldwin, the science Bill beauties the my to said, you." any of Einstein power is. generation. uranium boom. JACK GOODMAN, We #3 all all got got there involved involved were uranium newspaper of the South you. never could how Kennecott ore and, that never was story journalist I at think, treatment I sold a Tribune the Times to the too is, says, also remembers that You see, Hollywood. to the doing "There's 125 things going to you be and And worked. one how never [laugh] for say, rock of me. to clear Schindler, Hal Hollywood. I'm mill the I well. let's of, I know don't fairly flotation terribly Tribune treatment and a how mean, I make then, But stage you they that the wrote tell they I the at you them the mines thing exactly from got Copper much from or Roy, the Thirty- during ore. the and first operating cake wrote bottom the at not We for dropped mean I it. stories, I and where of kind ground them; TV There's or war, yellow called to for some the was having get The Marysvale, the after wrote I about actually. were were There Technical know. don't that stocks. Steen, did from, That or ore the I penny Charlie Marysvale. came stuff a about think understanding quite is there here about Charlie, tailings war. the without from in shortly just of end down Plateau. Colorado there before I was stories stories thing uranium Third in people story in One semi- guy left, sold I the that knew at the Times. And I'm a--they're doing JACK GOODMAN, #3 a motion picture over near Durango, EalidoMwitthisEaiilrcadivhistary Maybe it's Well, the Judge McCarthy. Not ficCarthy had Wilson somebody they a story, president took him in railroad, and he "They it." So Grande named the been me stayed judge, me Rio the advertising agency. That was if you're car. He's I'd never over going been line connected and went that into runs still there, and they the Rio Grande of from were Railroad 126 a very of the Rio a P.R. man it was in that private nice thing. people Durango, they had Tennessee Pass there call in the somehow gage railroad Silverton operated narrow movie an accounts. over to He liked Went Durango doing "I his railroad the And a or the cars. to over Durango. which was RFC ran his in son. "Gee." mean McCarthy private ran he says, of a Railroad, interested private--the Somehow car. his the had I one that cars--not business the a So He town. Judge over." in business them with he Railroad in ride when president here movie, was Grande car." Grande "Sure, Railroad said, Axelson said, Rio stuff. there." that's and has over later, Tommy Tommy go and as that and. receiver, private on to McCarthy, the a stuff Grande bankrupt told Railroad. Rio a the and want Dennis as gave he you of over put said, if Colorado about versus the the history Santa Fe. JACK GOODMAN, It was that #3 very romantic. very narrow after it present main 1line. to Both get to somebody was: had they Fe engine hit each killed the other, and a you see for the producing And of Nat Holt western I chair. I'd never them slam days. The too were powder and and on they Times and slant a seen first of one a you them, of I when in they and them 127 went And the plot the is sky are made a which And kind sat make the high. in a Shane, Holt had took two They happened. dynamite is Holt. with he and I who Nat should action. after it man, them saw they wonderful named know, Santa Grande this and hung then won. [laughter] nothing hit, race people together--it engines Then Rio doing director hat, they and movie, director time sturdy. hit, the Royal and and television, page, two these history, movie except never, and the of of explosion, there a part to runs together--the Denver like Grande engine, over directing kind Grande in night I'm dressed one the late rate, big Grande they where Rio get Pass--the Rio engines basis called on Any story two some The to mountains--not Tennessee script and movie think. a races terrible the Gorge. these had Rio historically written which can The trying the across Royal knock both that goes railroads, the were pass through Gorge. They black and guys jumped Shrapnel was JACK GOODMAN, #3 flying over the if they had on that narrow those there, and kinda like," make I said I'm "Gee of script, you'd trouble with a "What you is, in very where it might up come back I'm was working it weather. Schindler And I've got there, is a 128 1lot like "You can't He said, something I said, "Well, it's the at the Tribune and I'm and I free the suggest of let that, It's of 1like me time time know." when because helping don't you "If says, He that." night, quiet a remember else. kind at time full was you Tribune. the at people outline and something with the found of a you "That's says, kind all and be about, wrote You form, short story ever outline. an 1like of kind story said, He [laugh] treatment?" a "What's say, treatment." a write could you I with you if maybe, do, to time." writers." script like love says, He "You I and or say, "Oh, good He guys have We a them dinner kinda "Any script." a I says, West, the movie." write to He found newspaper you "You and use having Holt. him. shot could I'm Nat I of a make could interesting to says, if history script. write rate, He live they about--." mean want You you. any something west." true really today, At films You know, you was interviewing the whiz. It engines gauge. historic history So cameras. do I I the know who and you JACK GOODMAN, #3 remember the about three out. And mine story gee. of off New got York steal the where to mine, office, threw course, you it get someplace like dust or said, Kennecott." So an there is in is But 1529 to barons are and she a was a the on up I'm mean, I problem, of ore. How rich there is, you know, something race There very or big I not Colorado. him and main was in office, as And process going tells remember the who stenographer it's Creek, dust back things. mine. flotation Cripple goes town not And he there's mining the shots. gold and may but really Kennecott you copper they him, this or mining pretty do 1880 he in of to See these a back, having this "oh kind mine. So rolled I engineer it. for the of out? outline copper but Fork the that probably I him, Kennecott with and a hastens some there, falls part higher Kennecott mining later Carr at a develop she claim few a suggesting silver he the in bridge other so of encountérs but and up file he thinking discovers to finance his what's that money just call of made it over western 1like promise kind about--you and there I'd rolls carbon, Western. young something hasn't a discovery handsome do some what the carbon on sitting History. with had copies I'm rambled to Tribune fable a developed Some in his guy in had shirt, JACK GOODMAN, #3 and landlady the suds and And, well, is the things good suds in kinda that stuff up or and some--there's try to cut gets the and he And I send this going home and like all the big Ehingaelike sthat" they'll steal of it." I to go month He's see know sai@, about passes, at him. that the Go T I out I Lake a treatment He you says, 130 I've god. If to sent me." never "It's I also remember And it?" a nickel see It's all how about a Holt. out says, says, got know Nat come he She good, Well, I a any don't and He being. done. it's Would Holt, I it, carbon.” call. Mr. files copyright them." phone to know copyright a know. airport. and.see what you'll it get And kept You into Holt. can't don't sent I Salt "Oh boarding he comes you know complete but you the ‘don't the "Did %I know, "Well, and possibilities." said, You dit. wife said, says, it. Nat various bridge. pass mill brings it the mine "Marge, She said, to my wives I the the off telling good "Well." at and thing and I in, get at surface. flotation up, and machine the cyanide this girl money a stuff threw off to fines--either explosion them [laughter] said, I washing in use bad pretty a the flakes they the rate the the only brings any into flotation it house, she bring and At it effect, like which. they threw "It's kinds and "You got of JACK GOODMAN, #3 flaws, but do you want me to if anything it it much out much. a do you want Paramount think does Well, for another hundred "Sure. Sounds departed for get a--" I a he as a worth dollars--you know So he we was we I it." About don't You're know, five days one shook I mean later, 131 piece I'm here say getting things. I hands, and I and think a sign "Did you said, "Oh I So books." he home, you "Did comes said, came She with Twenty- that--so I you?" Newsweek hands." the you "Well, to a or of You're what [laughter] for Marge. with sound said, "No, You're says, at going, said, said, me and "How I company. tell 1like said, "Gee." shook she and He Times, so said--oh, something dollars anything?" "oh, or dollars sign [laughter] I You he boy. and said, the to fast, retainer or occurred treatments, blinked, in much for seventy-five story "How pay major hundred wife, never business. you. great." Did anything? I this So bucks my So trust says, [laughter] They're wherever told had they it?" month hundred He Canyon", in I page eight do title. for getting a it thought twenty-eight travel I I great worth." twenty-five and So man. I'm a much Pictures. it's notion." Well, you're honest a "Copper had Holt, how how I "Mr. be it?" called that. an for find was might he said, meant packet in i's i five carbons movie hat rights; time you or owners I know, less but said, ke before it So I And till Until the broadcast people what my it five the that talk it, point k, Marge I't have lat was 't think the 3 article on , I and we didn't have a you car, probably Glen three paid expenses. hey ever make a movie? a car. cCanyon, they made send the car. If it See, second And I took Bought a sale largest the about Tribune. one "I practically bought know. And sver the had a says, places, I seen anything in of if I the second I ever Saturday Evening Post--well, Maybe think. of think He dollars for never life." in was worked I've I people-- you know first Wally who do "Gees, don't remembers sign=-no, for hundred I'm Magazine remember in signed existed. I that. television you the I ijenty-eight il. so said, right. rights; had "wally, and like Do for ooked all radio Sandack. more something television ivhexe, Wally or movie. 132 To that grand my or came to a something knowledge, they JACK GOODMAN, never #3 made they a liked making a tell the title. but got client a I'll hold that has to our expert get on with the people the to Evans. You It they would these cans could I anything. masher garbage they to were throw doing on an a one various 1313 day, we in got garbage story they you thrown first Empire things. This is get at Steel. chemical manufacture to splendid very but State [laughter] they And in ways many them be to were No, to the almost against up the You're were Steel stand truck?" York phone U.S. the you New the of be a on commercials. show in says can they do to He you started to were have New cans. U.S. and Glen Canyon. offshoot garbage off could agency they does "Have said, I was can or notion an Grand plastic wanted Evans One agency so was, and never Canyon-wise." them, it W. maybe about "Jack, with the Grand they they And of cans, and unbreakable, David The garbage stuff, garbage going that. did plastic which said, with Evans and a and apparently division got me film plastic know things. instead. what was at thought story you manufacture great great tell things and one affiliation phone them, sometime guys some on I the 1like shoot it. The of in York--something wants of commercial, you, Snarr movie into they a were Building; And they JACK GOODMAN, wanted #3 to Grand throw Canyon said over into the service that, the rim and from river is want to it." They got hit a a lower say the said, bottom river with into I Page, Arizona; it would land on He said, the it's it's at an river. up "Oh, that?" Grand Canyon, Eighty about elevation The above canyon there and proper then 134 you Grand We throw it the house. I now It this said, had runs It five it If you Have you you could bridge; no, land in bridge-- technically, built been feet maybe by Navajo across widens the Eighty-nine--old hundred starts then to Navajo highway dam trail want would "Well, go do Canyon. off you a can't do maybe The Nine-A. splash, "Well, well "What's canyon. said, power Eighty-nine." highway so said, the could long level, bad. than got when the too park you a I can the It's know down of garbage that second a that's the go level, to " canyon. you up I the the And important into you it. place, rim the can a more Kaibab suggestions?" lake." but and "Gee, throw first rim, go the the into about the first in can't can along anything garbage any "You place garbage commercial it, long, down TV 1like let's miles a In no throw plastic Canyon. wouldn't middle throw do phone, Grand possibly seven green and there's down a at out. bridge above the Ferry Lee's This then is the JACK GOODMAN, only #3 place between there's Moab bottom Lake So stuff, I and they Evans deliver two of has them. a you him. Yeah. He became like a some charge fat I wanted you from to the Arizona hour or the with Page, Page canyon. at, And but and crew somehow, Dave out of they cans Meyer in and was one we say, Hatch very of my where the the people--well Glen Evans Company get over. the big, or several in head. the to all spent in a Boating want and close eight be and from vans majordomo Canyon Hatch they something. out Glen [laugh] to to charge the where a right bottom, 135 and it's of Patrol the map a garbage York gone Motel let's York the sounds a photographer, two Arizona and and two. decided maybe Boy Highway so that's the New and "That memo turned services from said, two New who they then River him? gentlemen's top, up or Colorado by plastic life Glen, because the drive name say hire caravan in to know or from York a This people van wild guys New with Snarr. the film from man from remember remember And out green I dam little photographer Do the they a send dozen a So them gets across the Mead. send people. Evans bridge and--well, and great." a shots We all cars and night we or got so the bridge for morning across the thing an got JACK GOODMAN, bigger the #3 and bigger. river with smashing So three great big sound the at it's a major fairly and garbage bottom. top--finally garbage can various angles. updraft. And just down land busted up in ready. and the The what happened. And We inches company--not the wé can." they and they take from New York says, "Cue all ready 1is, of strange. the cliff, pretty badly. board. Well, [laughter] back to Page, asphalt in the first from an the It air. wafted And as So and bottom fell it and It down. and rocks, on landed on there's way rocks, the It in start fellow the Kind above they throw floated river. 136 spot The are and we No, can." And tripods was, can against went got equipment man difficulty was of get somebody cameras garbage drawing the to We thing this can." are [laughter] back six and garbage the the bridge, the smashed and didn't about top, it off expedition. greatest "Cue till over itself down coming heavy [laughter] up. went them and garbage the of stuff the off, shots And the would get Hatch Cue they down rafts. garbage can. go big below on the know, the ledges can "Cue the And the garbage said, the now, boats--you we cans, as below on garbage well cameras. people decided as but down was rocks by about for these into bridge. It they it say, let's see they put of each JACK GOODMAN, #3 garbage can. so when They the got can hit straight. We with the highway they tied garbage Well, back in. Then the side break We go river garbage one of mean, "You end, the to Phantom the All way taking cans "Well, Timex on the the when watch landed in landed Lee's Ferry, us, and garbage gentleman you're you from to we going down going to Ranch--we're to Phantom We pictures." John Cameron shots, they propeller of a Ranch Swazey didn't boat, 18357 do and go with are down the was they said, down Tovah, down there. of garbage says, He making They ran was trip these here that. shots way Yes." " OF there the out get not down. Company E1 to said, did whole all go going over taking Boating Hatch it going the of hauled we they're really know, down and it [laugh] boats, all would cans up then on are line best The cans. we cans, and the haul which side get it garbage right are, how they river time "Cue they"d so five the to of right, or they chasing and going day this can, see fall next and to/'go''right," there more to enough still the first out in would fuming, it four they put bridge the and back several to threw which something, was it the onto going® it because to threw T ESwasnt in. asphalt, department Then back hot updraft, back string can." geTNEEN an went a some out put in the them the JACK GOODMAN, river they #3 a hundred ran out footage to honest. We're we a had Then of the to Lake Ranch--all But I didn't it was Phantom to equipment [laughter] split It hundred carry. split [laugh] pounds And gentleman is this 138 guy a boatmen down by plane and very heavy. a mule It's all for the out and out. And morning for way. But York up. weighed us take that proper New regulation is two Fa the train, from the know, Company. next Now Santa you to name with the by or think don't I arranged there's all some who's me. at and up the up out York the there out, the those take got New on down footage. tripods, mule for of We lodges, load the this turns lots Harvey and are mules the they can't two and up Well, owned the arranged the you had We'd on and They rim--the ride us, told owned who you enough sure had one that load large south package. mules very No [laughter]. them from enough we're with picked really. people the on got then "No, took people--that's Ranch Railroad go and said, happened. gentlemen it. fault my to who's know We they the We us--including had back, they way." thing Well, ran And the time. of stuff dis-remember, one all good I on commercial. unfortunate something. ones the going Mead. they [laugh] make heavy and again. very the Phantom yards, permitted hundred that to and JACK GOODMAN, #3 fifty he weighed Now, what if [laugh] first turn, him on, thought him off up the one and that Dodgers of canyon. in Brooklyn Dodgers--the we was Series were this at guy the was the E1 the next day, I to get up, and we morning and the god says, He canyon." used invective. of stream those never. mystery So to me. another he it was mule we'd really Series. a Dodgers--well when Bar, he get walked anyway, we got to and the game was the listening because on on. it to took door We're all want to see a I've seen all I want It's [laugh] Well, my to 139 knowledge [laughter] business anyway, just time and on, and the us all went day next going to over the sunrise over to see the wonderful a never they Never, has game. the sunrise don't the top, is his beautiful advertising Well, we the commercials. the when been a canyon." blanketyblank put people, Well, knocked canyon. damn we Brooklyn--couldn't "Come "I and know guess, There's breakfast. the don't And said, to And with And up I when Oh, ways. World Tovah collapsed off, out. that L.A. on. walk year the it got official walk. to walked coming the had he a [laugh] whether World was he'd were he was, walked else know, So somebody somebody again, half did maybe somebody group--you ounce. we then and an never, remained on. I a was JACK GOODMAN, #3 through at Evans. endments, even lucked had really. Oh yeah. Do sound Yeah, wrote out a piece Oh name I of you you the I came from more know, remember Jim oddments and investment-wise. television I station. Lavenstein? Does that familiar? ought to New get York on or tape to the Bennett how. he got a And available in stations in Pocatello Walker maybe Boise. put the Was Bennett up fifty twenty-five percent. The picture I application put went application in Channel 6 fifteen years station on we up the scraped And we Idaho. This is air or now. there. We become 140 the money And for to the percent the and years we're the into as licensed twenty by up ten came ten are more together he dollars, thousand put together my in Wallace-- engineer through. network Walker and know license Bennetts The by available Orleans--how money, fifty Boise, ago and a two scraped know. some maybe to amounted New don't only the I quite was license percent; from there family percent; guy a related don't are also Lavenstein he's I that There Jim and family. notion Boise. so somehow. someplace, marriage And and yeah. This the more ABC build the ago, last station. it, and I JACK GOODMAN, had #3 enough station was to was keep on always satellite well, air four for was Channel were not up line which my money. Pocatello. studios the up loosing in it the putting in one It five in Boise They're had to do But years, also actually, Boise. you or percent. Well, The 6. ten we was the and it had a called-- physically in that in the next order to town get a license. No, it's Oh, I or break even, thousand could this mind. deep to fiscal this problems--he Corporation which on based an had great had water, were all come through till the came through so Walker and water Central 141 needed was Arizona money, very in has maybe or Development and prospects. hear wouldn't involved outfit Land Arizona called day himself found Walker [laugh] I money never true--he all it's besides and tape the all hundred a had Wallace--he'll Walker When afford. was That it. in dollars I guess I time that by and to began just We awhile. for Nampa-Boise Nampa, Boise- were We Nampa. Boise. of suburb a practically It's now. there mall a there's mean I rate, area. that know don't Boise. of suburb a practically any Well, it? that Lewiston--is The not prospects going Project suddenly to water and JACK GOODMAN, badly. #3 One sell of the would buy about a the TV his and million dollars us Pls Paul-- JG: When none and for I had us the that. the to, so they sold a bell at all? a heavy and name was his you have political much a TV it and the in Phil was of really on--if way, I us cost had it--it ten was cost a and Riesen worked to they to him a job At any got buy out decided had who in stockholder lived got you've up rate, except didn't want Does that name been the Boise chief Cascade-- Hansberger--something As Boise. in Walker they Hansberger. man A I department. money station, clout disliked the problem. and he it any construction Hansberger--Jim Now Hansberger. money if Well, thousand news enough Bennett executive some us get time little family get Smith-- the ring him. to By and in had from to asked hundred by a think of a all was he dollars awhile Paul there I him So interest million staffing for station. percent for ways you certain a know, if amount of other kinds of clout. He very powers that be especially the Democrats. [END OF TAPE] 142 THE FOLLOWING 285 1986. THE [TAPE NO. 4.] JG: I came a ten is, IS AN INTERVIEW INTERVIEWERS ARE out with about thousand half ago dollars. would sold for So Those are the things never had you know, when the station And mean was Something we you think to four like it's ten Time that, would unfortunate about or or I and it Roy. As in that. Oh did Sid think something a million happen, much for? thing [laughter] stock how with year twelve that any maybe a percent, Life the like Fox figure that. yeah. probably--well, property The back, million it, ON JULY GIBSON. in half my I heard a had know, we and GOODMAN AND ROY put station I you sold I'd profit. the eleven if be--. what dollar Hansberger WITH JACK TIM LARSON be I worth don't today, know but what lots the and lots more. Eighty? Eighty? always raise to go I sorry been the money to Boise, we? I'm gradually did were as financing, television was that rate, Any Eighty. to couldn't anyway. at less Evans and 143 buy Any and less figure it, rate, I'm for but out Evans I've And a see. of to way want didn't I let's out in adventure Ownership. were. it [laugh] only my Where Evans. until I I was JACK GOODMAN, doing #4 nothing office there. You kept Well, up was decided all until still to have but maintaining and doing the Times, 1little Newsweek then-- And that I Evans, That's ends. and odds for about two the Times with himself years ago? when the gentlemen executed-- Gillmore? Gillmore. That I guy was the thing. I was who had to to Judge Willis by then, began got nothing having Oh. me had to to send go started the in to a back. cases But on the but sob the you'd I've the sister go Times, Lichtenstein. reporters, was cut Provo; etc. Grace girl to court down court, effect little I cover Ritter's in a when constantly against what bothered about Times kind of for the as you was the bit. Oh. More and Times know, more, you because you what jet say, for to be to be or Iy not the by-line a Like the nearest person Butte couldiget Montana. I the "to next 144 or on night I a time Times get morning--an Denver, was the at Now, business there could five-thirty pieces bureau. newspaper degree. Butte, in in do a Newsweek--at and were happened plane the--I'd wouldn't had, a in let's train--or Salt overnight could when get Lake train. to Las JACK GOODMAN, #4 Vegas. not, I was I'd go because like from to or day fly from Turner's now who's L.A. up in be here in need except for a is pretty radio, that of guy the that began about the or down were kids at but same the hard up, grown so a nice I a letter and field away to it's slow and 145 got even to and down. an no them that can find the a or utility bit. And money kept per story was going up dollar weren't--you time, that etc., Finally awfully But really the college, Jeff fast. quite by Denver television So in remember they really you get in--Wally tell went the of take That's is on payments keep to the then changed So time. say something. value the to There's feel--well, the days don't to New would fairly so. even has me gone began I change or major because same but something it hour. If Arizona Gallup, whoever because make striving married Times to month, per fast, the an correspondent there's in or hour happening, darn two in They an to let's Portland, anymore. can out here to or whereas days Vegas. sent get maybe Newsweek, they something here, now to Airlines could or go got Apache of be would even You out can I by Well, guy--he in Or somebody, York. Copeland Hill Arizona. for bureau Vegas. things New when could that all to you Mexico glad I warm the gotten sent one the back JACK GOODMAN, #4 f’rom the Times. desk is gone. business had wound up with know. You you gone. a for program, at would You could when and so you ybu done, got--well, I Tamesy I'd daughter, she was age, she used a book to take these stunned to yellow. [laugh] But and Newsweek. It I'd write the on there's easier front 146 of a the really nice letter you, Roy, had. high them always I'm turning they're Newsweek Newsweek in aside But piles and school paste and a one orderly, order. deep very have I and and or So, I'd and fast with insurance up. piles, foot whatever anything high how full- insurance pile. neat you, insurance about them things in is see was got particular any in rather very you the that. filed junior everything that, from is frame, an life 1in . the you with know pile it of or don't never put maybe not and I to who here you So their with say, And used Jean, when I I've successfully. one the with on in into bothered as it. you news in worked never insurance never about pieces buy with could it's were had national Newsweek. you involve always health were that's I've I with how we the worked that know that mean Evans letter don't I thing but but station--I Same Time, pension. running people nice I payroll and was Most see, know scale Whoever Times of in cover a way. what JACK GOODMAN, page #4 I had magazines finding You what in want --wanted contacts who things. a was going was who had PR piece I the things in for railroad power fellow think company in those Kennecott or you the other so I in a got Bill 147 the paper or would that contact or Rio Grande. jump Jody I Priest news gang Bowman. to in of They the PR was PR the is of awhile. people, Bill who of out quite I charge say story in if knew above in mean the something. you could you There Now was PR day. story. railroad a having tell radically, the news of who to about know, contact superintendent What thing word places who national days, in yesterday There still of you was know railroad. would as Backman then been the way whole Gus Pacific Lake. hasn't way, changed the put no sagacious a particular to Salt the has and go the various it even a through being about Union people, to I do on thinking maybe don't to at person to structure ways that' in got have story in you I I'd I wanted-- One news trust or power guy done. is day, many I'd go news little other The to and And I'd say second to then anyway. have happened people was I'd out a But and Let's all do whatever what's is [laugh] to on. shelf, them something, find the them. do story would the here The but the put you JACK GOODMAN, #4 in touch with of the I don't not. power gone. I Kennecott I they all to company. a utilities is still big as any where but towards And you've the church so it Jerry and so, or sometimes steering you Sometimes career; as or Lefevre heads got--I a the chance guess it's always and was. if see because see seems they year about or Salt hardly companies. the The government industry is Thiokol's is slipped a same You now, construction still the me the Well, company is ask going big and guess. church it's you'd one here, part And communications I completely 'story not or is of now. now still to construction Steel The were them. is when end bleak because into what the still is. oblivion. at of industry, Thiokol Times see much least, story president to mining a There's lot get very financial are there, at the pretty contact. There's public see be current that but to year-end Lake--it'd do is if used something--a who mean the could company, mean, But You guys structure, way know was. the power whoever power downhill. the if the the or company know But of Gadsby power of a hold could get you didn't want their job depends up off figure. way got as handling of Don you into go over to on their thenm. like meeting 148 in the your case, people on a the fortuitous street, or JACK GOODMAN, #4 whatever, maybe in. may even You come than seem tapped to having to you, down be they this the thing knowledge able to get seemed to be of of that, trust; the but tapping more job going when people their trust let's S in you. JG: Well, certainly. interviewed Eccles. once Eccles terms of about world knew I still control. had There a stop made 1999, here it be trust basis. is. I to birth be to you don't 149 do know. by operate I've never was world There year the on Eccles population be to control. because this But had there the felt He bug-a-boo. know you control, or population with do to very the television at did or mean, I think I Eccles. off doubted me. telling was what it get probably he Even an ask get to and straight, pretty barely me trusted he in sharp would could I me. he and mean I wrote fast, too up filling I and remember his was a--that was me, finances, thing. population and explosions for terribly anything had that where, much YNNI Marriner and it what example, able but ever I story too told he of sort for terribly get and quite sometimes, first was question, right--that I twice, always what me, sure--well, national down told that was and intelligent he or his--he take well I'm a sort had to 1988, of untowardly a JACK GOODMAN, #4 agitated any source was know, I source. if it He the Hayes it left, --from 1947 was to was then in on, the Waddy. Mormon valley, and monument president of first see 'Quist Hayes Gorey. I guess Yeah. there up at got to the when Any rate, You know, were big the bottom do a church things cover anniversary I always used that Time in and Quist Now, Smith. about it You of story of was--he the had a Smith. what wouldn't what. the Centennial. hundredth Albert Roy, about the Albert then the it-- church--on George for, get 'Quist beard-- is and and little that you before Canyon, The When Malmquist--you Hayes the new church. George of the a Emigration Malmquist. or who (?). year arrival spilled spilled, correspondent forgotten the never be with over it I'd going on had Wadworth Waddy. the I I to remember Time-Life turned mean wasn't still conversations was I feel to would copy--see, his a little rewrite sorry fearfully, of-- Everything. everything. Practically least in words they the beginning. wanted; and 150 Newsweek was too poor, They'd tell you how it, and it you'd do at many would JACK GOODMAN, pretty did #4 well this a taken the on or the role community. Time made it he's a big Boy point string over dependent Quist was trusted this losing I think much him. the the up so TV because if You're putting him view, which view, but at and pencil and they may be least trust what on you know the completely You headquarters, and was was afraid it just it then. Although you the you're going to cut point of his point of what do doing can typewriter see so your from don't And happened you're from he wasn't guy, parts know, was suppose, they el turning also I parts in the he ditched tape. worst to "I'm and a scouts. interest-- was he get best the business, you for upset and he them, hasn't, the use and that think leader contacts." church with I he reporter, the had the very he'd he only said, my much viability So he of at large--it heck think because them anymore. I in he Smith's or scout was it Maybe scouts, a Quist in Albert guy's Quist when a in this trust and interested if political upset it as was people his time and Hayes the by had worth to on one very Well, movement. been Scout, where--that Scout had as it. George sons was sound of Boy at He wrote church, one the his you the that was scout, way about somehow delights been the piece mentioned chief stick with you and pen write, what they JACK GOODMAN, tell as #4 you. And much From as think there were think there to a used had tabloid was the New nevér last." The Morning World when I working the from gathered a was at the of they and newspapers, the Morning the and Herald newspaper mean or that 152 to be guys the you'd this "It will paper. a Mirror tabloid. 1last didn't was and the There from all that I then Morning were two There was ever I've encountered fellows meet at Daily combined. course had which kid--I Post Tribune. my because like It there which News depression the papers, solid the of but went, through lasted through--it say, the Hearst a was in--McFadden's. came Graphic which too, tabloid a was were remember said, the I was "Look look was there that after know, which Daily father kid, enough, Times said, didn't It [laughter] old a there something or mother And but still she and home, it You York or 1922 around York. the can which was was was I newspaper." which There way, brought course, I the funny Of when ago. unfortunate I that, quite years the New before By been have mother more in holds thirty happened--when newspapers paper. still know, newspapers been that standpoint, newspapers. morning if you has twelve deliver must to, of viable first know reminiscing I twelve don't it the thing I when who where you're on JACK GOODMAN, #4 the--they the always newspaperman's writing. P. spoke A. You and Telegram the or World. solid the Herald It was the was a one or papers. The Wall the Telegraph and there father was a Yiddish spoke Yiddish newspapers. wanted to Father came the were matter All We have over 1learned never kids secrets when 153 from he was the kids. about to was specialized was There newspaper, papers. were There newspaper. very a And publication. liked always and of language foreign Howard probably I've racing a the Post York the that was was Sun the so existed. of kind was Variety. was there then which in Scripts were Journal Street American There New The there Then two. skipped the Then paper. full-size conservative, apparently on. York New paper. full-size conservative, big the was which with the Journal later F. World all was was the the and at were paper. had The Telegram. the owned morning Telegram Telegram--World worked was being content, Times there American Journal the became The as there They World Hearst papers, afternoon the later Tribune. Then Hearst of World started who the dream. York Brown thing. but the New terms people at newspaper, which in Heywood those newspaperman's the dream know all of Now, my read--there three Yiddish Yiddish. [laugh] fourteen They See, years JACK GOODMAN, #4 old. And he read a to Journal. called and English vYiddish Now, the was paper there one Yiddish Herald which paper. The was RG: Der was the something or language newspaper in Morning Day. paper Journal There or something. the There was There were York. and language Not Italian them--Progresso another. were Staatzeitung were of New Morning paper--German There two the liked Yiddish The Sengzeiten were always was Tag--The German There he socialist was Corriere the and El Spanish all manner newspapers. Where it people JG: a There Norwegian newspapers. which papers. a but Forward. called Zeiten--Tagebladet. of papers, Vorwarts--The there three read was to Yeah, that learn their jobwise. mechanical here--were guy was at the on as very a worst in had unlike New always or a family and for young of a back stuffers--the 154 was shop--the whole an get at the was he was a could one ran If say was it through pressmen, thing they opening, Mostly, that how affair. no member. And shops--the know unless linotypist -well, the there wherever, business. room, mechanical closed a nephew whole the don't son-to-son-to-son the opportunity York--I Tribune, apprentice an trade. linotypist, Times an Now, shops are you all the a themailA family. JACK GOODMAN, And or I #4 all old line, something know of in printers and way--a visible more than that. or on of a virtually no television were into mean, so what there were a You were--you know, like job. There had 155 been a be would by the New in jobs was time York was then of They unemployment know and now outfits. was You there and one there huge there from Roosevelt, a more lot course happened. size national the in happened, the had now. has or covering out were were there somebody There my an meet covering there. it instance would assignment newsreel 'till the people--sixty room it all sixty city until radio no the was course, of to room city who it Hook or of as same back the circulation knew Times, and for never Jjournalism, of side that the Though rooms. city paper, the in were a I that that's there guys unions Sandy date and I 1860 the largest sick. the hundred See, they time, to pressmen the know, or the had back older not one The guess, I no, have at was. staff several and was assignments staff, Well, You from colonies, prosperous were only Pilots, English that The dated pilots. Harbor paper--must afternoon They aside harbor which too not was Times. family. Post the at the the know. York River of same the New were Hudson times at you if on the you somebody I City lucked News JACK GOODMAN, #4 Association. there--I mean effects must See, the certain was sum, through Post--the Post go up the had had and a at various by wire, before Queens got I the on they there, story Teletype, and things in, and they whether to send cut began out, I to guess. in had based hurt, Oh, 156 to a that's there story. the were that around connected room--they which on But first three Post, the at they or in, wire the teletype could, covering were little a like Borough scattered They to Association News offices York. Association papers paper Brooklyn City the only have staffed News the to A the the were City somebody was used to like They a had I a offices paper That at paid and New send News Hall little of City Borough bought fifty got guy World front sometime. Bronx. the they'd it a it's circulation A because in York paper store Harlem. copies at its '37 but The boroughs. of New Every little in up districts and phoned, had know they and on had maybe had which I and even but way, based maybe guy Island Staten AP. 1936, over, 1932. little one not World--the five pick Times--it and a around was around the that there Hall up which scattered work the guess, association that see, like I to depression folded Association one went where--you have this I brought that decide that, when thing they papers in JACK GOODMAN, #4 Brooklyn. There's the Brooklyn Standard Standard Union one of the picketed having told I a Oh And the was was a I at was time. the shop, picketed think, Post--I and were you got twice. And didn't the And they maybe they good one at the Citizen. because guild I very Walt two Well, there's Brooklyn Eagle were picket. it go broke Brooklyn Eaqgle newspaper. One of its Whitman. [laughter] problem was I remember at Johnson and that came Eagle, the Washington and hill ran down picket up that into the wind the to hill down I But [laughter] river. the off the and had you picketed you then hill, at And hill. a and River, East picketing Street was there and the to we war, editors Johnson and after and Eagle while it. really. The did Brooklyn Eagle; the been regretted but first go and have I the to always folded, must strike, off then, Union things at Brooklyn was younger. RG: sixth your What's careers. five about had You've career? JG: Well, the went rarely to told N.Y.U., and until I is one I think doing--I I present you then began to 157 the really to I went I never get a art drew most fun. before school again vacation Tm or and very have JACK GOODMAN, enough #4 time maybe to Europe That's I'd of I'll a were--it's pretty lucky Jack really." architect, and another an were it very important criticize not just what's are Salt with Lake. [END I "Well," I OF Snedaker, thought Why to happening I don't couldn't says, you one." ONE OF TAPE] good a the column?" anything 158 So retired. he's "It's write say no about idea. And a the I an says, He young." the "What's now as have Times the he's and they but building, "Here says, he There's SIDE in head--but my and city," the to who's know You individual the it's went L.A. Times, the at I pretty papers of out it architects?" said, of as again, Harris. I critic. snapshots, Clawson, Jack lot started, career any know or "Gee. Gallivan they're a considered met do." I were. "No, right went it Pat architectural name has--the I day, so There fellow, "Well, says, He matter?" one taking as knew I won't that "Well, says, He and Francisco present or you says, I o0ld." they "Are and street "Do Not sketch, this Gallivan said, he said accident. the "No. said, JG: in San I camera Well, and street, a like then a sketch. a with And out somebody lunch someplace make taking make meeting to finally. nice. instead go I We might Lloyd Lloyd to said we do it. saidi"ohy building that a JACK GOODMAN, #4 colleague of mine retired now, in office, the about and some or something who's Jack suddenly of school you columns, said, had to by this I mean that's critic. I mean there's T they're doing they've done to "Go "Go said, problem to a it." is in out I ahead. did school Well, going." photographs. on 159 21st So reviews. a nice He So-- [laugh] book but it, in Jack, said to I hate what instance, what I ‘try. He know." you He ahead." a For and art beauty." money a county. in had a rate, Drive, book Go little column, a Keep getting Catholic the the corinthian he become it just architecture and it? So know stuff." the that's any give Highland to So, at "I'1l isaid, Egeplnn very But books. styles, day, you how so, "You stuff, review to want and "No, writing "Gee, so because be I'm one said, I know, time, worked critical said. of, to I'm professional." said, stuff, Schindler book. get you so, he kind that anything not I know, guys and "Hey," 1like [laugh] do "It's you you you by me, "Do said, so columns, into looking built learn, would Oh, walked say to You younger couldn't architecture, "How built. architecture." Roman critic?" the says, said about history I He have of being it." anything I but might they liked it and part of the went out then one South--used said, day to I be--Saint JACK GOODMAN, - #4 Ann's. T, 2 St. JG: It's Ann's. Oh kind yeah. of a photographer. sketches as the bad. If know the only an artist like newspaper Vienna I to So you soon "Gee. heard you during know. the some of my that's to illustrating my who unique. illustrates Winslow Civil and got You're of might back light, a made I gradually I'm said, ever it reproduce too have I've so brought bad. "Well, that, in work pretty guy said, this you somebody didn't "Gee's, how If and So I is I myself, sketch; that's thing, own--" a know. dark, the 1like made you building. to problem columns. his Uh I only too You're thought buildings So sketches, own I of well." found picturesque Homer War, they was were artists." huh. So. quarters nice, I and pleasant can sit to it's wintertime, draw through somebody's want to--I find got I've a windshield that dislike might working 160 in say problem. of face from the the I a fun three- kind of sketch. If it's make and of weather's the place, shady someplace down the office a kind If say. 1let's morning, a of it's sketch a do can I because--well, is, is it what Anyway, [laugh] either could wagon, or building photographs. find that I I've JACK GOODMAN, rarely #4 done thing it. changes might as been use I are make a book of them out Weller said, you 1lots to says, "It takes Well, who does Schindler together. Wetzel. Paul moved the music Paul got and you're who say You know, what are the maybe do a mean potential. Sam But 1lst." if [laugh] you He Schindler? Sunday art around, you Little know, Ann music. It hit on It's how Nancy were in critic the You author. 161 never was he's Mathews does all head like Paul but kinda the section it's perfectly--she's who different. meet not more. know with the unfair. being people And I Harold critic, getting the that rarely music doing don't I or has around calendar. July this--puts that always you're satisfied of them calendar. section? now--that's tired by Schindler's to a year. thing the You this the the some do rate, of a got of long." art the any of look photograph. part maybe done does was over or it the At out to that a tossing ought get When the--the from better of--it's "You got think photograph. and are you a O'Brien maybe reviews work the there said you for portfolio now I on whether Yes, mean, if well going Jerry do, I the right. limiting, by people theater. Mehlich--they never shows are never Now, see, the says. meet the author, book or JACK GOODMAN, TIhd You JG: Only #4 get any once. parking I let did there, covered about come make a was New this graffiti, and it's a parking chief you more problem that--is do bad you do with You don't I remember they effort; do tunnel, said the you way know, completely there would be bad people very good-- it's not and come as to you a you do realize or put of the these that the county for people? on What the south? economically you ran into viable how Warshaw. Keith the was know, know off old the gutted something. together, and it was little nice small 162 was building. Kresses sort mistake. a that--I situations of a really then. by was Broadway That north up malls two What's 1line? that that or space; I be cutting dime public Well, sidewalks a Penny would just and five J.C. old that that building of think you Although mean Where practically I the architecture thinking thinking that of terrace, more about them? you're then the know, city parking. you're Uh, and of What's and You unkind ugliest. across York, it. to the kinda under not very attached sleeping things, JG: that's them with architects? something that's and if from said said whoever they I terrace Store. TL: static gallant and it put public a been There'd all market-- restaurants--things 1like JACK GOODMAN, that. #4 It just guess. The Third South. guess at TV. Do parking Now, the you terrace didn't one story Tribune, the to certainly remember on seem about was the When its I we TV on was, I were first old I stores when built where the that. it ZCMI ground financially, injured maybe when work at parking studio had been? Oh yeah. Where the terrace post fit from Regent in wanted to apart, and by age, then met He's younger that. like The terrace I think to go there I said, Paris, "You and they was blew that was I I because she There O'Brien. 163 in am, enter when is they took first, and to Lake. about you it my And your somehow progressive to saying with my park or Jules, a making be to seems and could Salt more could you narrow down, store Makoff's, fairly later remember other parking Jules are terrace a the terrace than up you it Dreyfuss. And only guys. Keith and people parking that difference." like Jules and and parking younger think know, But put store, they went. ZCMI high somehow, bigger, it been. their sizeable something "You levels behind go Roy. always seven Street knowledge, had had about that I office a wife there parking used to easily. are--Auerbach's, the together. Why You're all JACK GOODMAN, can't is #4 you go around Exchange have exits know. I you're Place, and of it in never they gotten and Marriotts then, of which is town course, too Square which I though, it to be street and go mean, that Salt you've got know. to a The there. 164 new mall gone the and you Manny Floor the and yet degree--the church a mall I there, ZCMI Mall. towards that and and Triad present until sizeable a had would all and at be, west Palace be gone. you but down, mall least at works, to almost pushes 1least got were people the to they the had kind parking could It and but O'Brien's Keith together. the worked don't up the And keep long cross that before increase Well, a pulled grows--there's That'll had west, far do. never I toward to "Jack, merchandising. Paris at mall second The got said, But between gap a had have You one, then have would it guess And stores?" built got of and He It's which terrace, three sense." you finally together. time. that all parking." Wolfe's. kind They at to of back in one not behind parking parking. game. had big make Auerbach the You terrace. a you've It's is street into not is'what coming. late in would It's Merchandising of put "It wrong. short that entrances said, people on population this economics obviously Trolley of pulled it for JACK GOODMAN, TL: I #4 think they neighbors JG: Yeah. wanted were Well, interior food in the--what make to odd ZCMI places but going the of to be is if lately. there at you call they knew who their at-- thing Mall do sure you'll You all, or the examine know, maybe other they they the had had no one, mall? Crossroads. The Crossroads eating places noontime, TS of ice cream They may I the this know. this that's the what's more they Mall's all these people in shop. got an So there now, Orange 1little at more Julius and and an and-up killing out there in between mean, The each other or something like happening not that often as column in out once the you'll see hundreds here and there. like starter houses. people--that our 165 that These parents way more are it have you are. growth whole houses of Yet logical there then in get Should county. things a in can I happens it interesting is as to try I thing know--the don't for being houses would is Now, valley. the in out one new ZCMI that is me to thing amazing big--I the of know had and guess Because One I more huge the in happened? TTis always [laugh] opened is I ZCMI end don't into and and more that. JG: Mall have sale built. that you killed JACK JG: GOODMAN, #4 for, they and The sell, building They seem think to have to what Your responsibility Well, there's the think I one which wrote know, is hard building profit made about whole to and in it the 62nd you'd to zoning column. around and is inside. to figure. survive. stop, next You'd but one, they and they over. all Drive, a they've it out I keep make keep live everything industry, they'd reinvest and a thing, Used to South. get to certain and go you out, I'd the extent-- go know, I know I you out Highland Murray-Holladay Road roughly-- 47th? had this and a were You between demarcation went kinda they at seems route, 100th the planned least to me to me, the they'd better 90th South. or across a bridge. And of if they put it that by are out 72nd at 72nd South Then time it have when seemed a belt at a becomes a South there was that end. to going what that's Mall, the of line a was there The there. got you when country. route, 166 big And beginning Now, a Cottonwood the belt that and city built they when country. the in out road, degrees ten dropped temperature the under came creek pasture and Peak Lone of view gorgeous you and curve, a began Drive Highland And Yeah. 48th. or JACK GOODMAN, huge #4 [laugh] Have midtown area over been there all, Roy? there's half you Well, most and of them that now ZCMI jumps at dozen sizable reflective it toward Union. office buildings, glass, new black again--going Fort out to a malls, 102nd. 106th. It seems to rural slums JG: and clustered which House If ZCMI they me, well, or to -I'm green left is needed could interior have of a mall, gone someplace not a kind a to poor Sugar 167 more House, suburban sO have could over it Sugar there. semi-- seemed to take farmland proponent for instances not up office There's left orphan needed many I me. to filling they between. space else, great schools thing too where enterprises many too buildings, semi- of houses, of homes, many too with valley the the they're about--well, just they've think and disconcerting very a of part all It's sort amazing. It's else. everything and terms in bodies of trail a Leaves that, is somebody a build like you're spaces that think I green-belt hell. to goes o0ld empty they'll and the the land, something or of fill don't into, jump going city thoughtless lower-cost with left me you When idea. RG: to to and of JACK GOODMAN, #4 estates, but country. And bypassed now. what you Walker's that's So can't all have have you York. of the the commuter who to divided the this it easier suburbs. Well, can you unless thought, and more that a afford a One 'Oh, more we knew when all 168 the to get commuter zone the Queens Jersey went or in, into and the Bridge and you make Americans--you, I, when white lawn high-rise high-rise off I New rode green luxury around you little a Bob then little killed note, New like people a than then, It's tunnels, of they They'll Tri-borough most and effectively that cities. the notion the fence Rather and And that. beyond into new on the parkways people, for picket a miles a anothér for miles then build parkways of been you Until end of But got that. suburbs. the that the get easier the once everybody--likes with it that. tangle. so building fifteen highways and traffic beyond to of piece that's you've one twenty-five And south all the lovely to--well, can't made train Westchester. new a was roughly or way a freeway, another city was boundary the parkways out going got They know The which on is wherever you've road. to Moses, is, get circular all they're get development, Lane was a lot in answers.' house the in apartment apartment. of inner- college, There I were JACK GOODMAN, slums #4 all Well, over federal projects the coming--build slums. With Well, didn't provide the o0ld Well, I going six Yeah, we've --for longer You is, and ran than six even the new They churches, became was the end housing. know we've been for-- hours. had lunch. kids say, I You know, When just column, never never, once. He be light. just who Hill decided they came couldn't They're 169 on the guy funniest Times the humor a the The It off comes L.A.--he's the it ought it off funny. it have to over turned their problem New York Times was make the tape to book." funny. write can me. to ought you funny a do [laugh] interesting "Gee, Gladwin is had couldn't out of people that You my think it and end. incredibly don't Hill wipe projects. The in just and of to schools, there been retired. kind going Dad, wrong. ever been stuff, I housing problems housing roots, probably new hours. know, funny the things. are Harlem. projects shops, their Side, these all the small slums we haven't has You the think guys This for from And go built East got will neighborhood that. lower housing them they disassociated RG: York, governments slums. of New Hill to They never humorous. second one a now. He I JACK GOODMAN, guess .S #4 it's Russell Baker. I've right, but forgotten they're story--you'll be about know, it. You What we'd what we'd get it explore in like go-- JG: Sure, TL: --more in JG: You've got a for we'll then you was, to can just stories the some tell or the all a thinking stuff. transcribe reserve sessions, preceded they're days reserve want but funny--Hill maybe couple this and right--we'll right things maybe that to we'd do. depth. old. as almost is history. a piece of You know, I've like feeling even me Roy [laugh] is do Somebody newspaper do and anything it as old to you who hysterics to like Right. not in like to to Baker. always been-- to JG: I sit seeing York was big Statue of when him I Liberty was in New back bash. recently. Just Oh. the it how you told haven't get [laughter] though. hours, six for still couldn't I [laughter] him. interviewed We've Yeah. -—-?--Just tell I forgot of this know. don't What was at the that? them. to tell recording you was July 170 beginning the 28th; the date interview with that