Wanda Clayton Thomas, Salt Lake City, Utah: an interview by Winnifred Margetts

Transcript (59 pages) of interview by Winnifred Margetts with Wanda Clayton Thomas, retired Communications and Theater professor at the University of Utah, on March 6, 1985. This interview is no. 64 in the Everett L. Cooley Oral History Project, and tape nos. 255 and 256

Thomas (b. 1912) discusses her involvement with the University of Utah Theater during the 1940s-1970s as well as her association with C. Lowell Lees, Maud May Babcock, and George Thomas. Interviewer: Winnifred Margetts

NN R S R S RR Tnterview #64 WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS WANDA Salt CLAYTON Lake An City, L. Utah interview Winnifred Everett THOMAS Cooley Nos. March by Margetts Oral 255 6, History & 256 1985 Marriott Library University of Utah Salt Lake City, Utah Project EVERETT L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION pate to scholarly /'L‘ the Library of the University of Utah to & be used purposes. 2.4~ Open and usable after my review. l; Usable witn the following restrictions: Interviewee /935 ¢/ o5 /Al azi/ I willingly contribute my testimony recorded on 1L ) J)ar. )Z,vd'}c,&, for TABLE FERGLIL BECIRETEUINCIG . & Writing Controversial Introduction Maud o May to el Graduate @F e 2 chrinc@inE Returning to Original ol at University. Teaching. Migs Degree Bo under o o or University to Production of o o Celom ole R 0 O Student-Teacher Growth of Fowelil Iees AdiviiceNEol Speech Speech 's Aspiring . e e e e o s, L Relationship. . « « « . . . ] s e o s SRl e 5 oo . .33 Sdst o . ol 36 28i8 . 42 . . Department. "ACErREeSSESic. = Departments. . A 1947. o et s R ol s o SR . . o Pathology. in . oo S8 o Department. Control e . o Theater in & . o Dividing Staying . 5 oD o Philesophy. and . o o PresidenthGardners Speech 0 Valley, fFanlvilBacuiliEyielniis in o o, Promised il Changes g Teach. il KitndhlesSillo o Lees. ol VersatislicTeachien B o Lowell AN ORNTale RO M S CONTENTS Plays. Speech Babcock's ApeElner of OF o o « . o « e « 5 5 it 50 (HHESEES STHEME VEREBRT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, AND TODAY IS MARCH 6, 1985. WE ARE IN THE ECCLES ROOM OF THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY. THE GUEST BEING INTERVIEWED TODAY IS WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS, PROFESSOR EMERITA OF THE COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT. MY NAME IS WINNIFRED MARGETTS. WM: Well, Wanda, some we background WT: Can WM: Please WT: You I say emerita like to think WM: I blame WT: Witths WM: We don't thiat), would by asking you begin? I room that et sk go’ was that's pioneer Well, pioneer iEe ST the communications myself as of the speech and en. start on out with December father by my right the was born where that So I said the was really Wanda 6, in, grandfather. across park fort. I've of department, you were born and born. my 1912, in in adobe My street made come Clayton an the very same house with grandfather from out of from a had Pioneer the old pioneer built Park. And fort, the setting. Thomas. Is Clayton then strong conneetions. a connection? SCaIs Vo grandfather, Winter to born made house, of you. were Well, wrote, interviews department. like you adobes WT: these person. before an arts WM: each I'm theater the start do. I when of something say but WT: usually I who Quarters; "Come, Come hiaivie built vieny the adobe house, his father was William Ye Saints." My was born Clayton grandfather, My in who Newell, WANDA CLAYTON had THOMAS his #1 father's ErimeTN aYINNitamEeC official I to the exciting own of from the keep reading. time of My seventies. that. They then later Danish my interview people material. who one Lowell of Lees. oldest in was They pioneers. and years Utah pioneer out was a to in about I into the received to go a and material, Hector the who And southern Lee, West, and all the interview someone the Denmark. by of at in book folklore folklorists me converts was grant me his indeed, insight to of country it later for most out this an is were little me trek But, written awarded great picked A BYU. Foundation was that to or the it Koosharem gave southern the in And think has born Years This I first word). of folks Ephraim; heritage in the came Mulder right for mother's migration. Humanities dramatic was by people very historian Young. redone My the history, been first temperament. the Brigham William That the paid mother Tory. of grandfather great settled Rockefeller the under for official journal, mother's the the think heritage. early by “was. the it's pioneer published can't My Now Denmark. Utah, (I plains pocket. am laly ton recorder journalist across Jjournal came before railroad. WM: Yes, 1869. WT: Yes. In around any and event, visiting out of friends 2 that and experience associates of I touring knew, with WANDA CLAYTON one THOMAS person Ephraim to plays; tragedy. I directing down three #1 The the a and it is couldn't indeed fommi-RRlinic the MipilYaya site exactly is what my with had no had years that it too late was fsslentivi first put on to guide later to than because interesting Eeinite prize. had They and it any I her my Stanford wired read tried been me 3 was to I came out University and asked me is years came out And the so I people. together play. correct that several got made over "Vengeance with published. play and Massacre. my I dramatic Brooks I me later there, years. to £ Is i Miine. # And Juanita accurate. had that for in Massacre talking with event, years it one astonished; that and Meadows just it remarkably her, that Mountain and put And, and talking in monument me. together unfolded But Meadowé finished The time from Massacre. absolutely years the put comedy, It finally went way Meadows it. tragedy. I researched was according it book, just Mountain was to first was the ailil eld#tVie nigieainicie unbeknownst other Juanita her was very had 81 sieve the play her I able Mountain of true enough, of Mine,"™ after a all farcical heard I until interestingly to never was the the story. sleep I one on for I'd another City, is that mystery to pathos, tragedy natives. like Cedar one discovered me She with thought only one error, that; but it any event, But in before and if I I her was book. received would permit a WANDA CLAYTON them THOMAS to send published. the it was around had discovered the subject this with both advised did. Then publish might comedy (a their success, thought seems the to no-no in the Danish In up any event, not were just to Earth" be was success. awfully critic. just have I've had long fine. as The published by y good. a I lot don't pathos, the MIA. how consult. and from the she it. they wanted felt up The success publish and the commercial He was on language, Wood Krutch New done York reading them, Shall was And funny very Joseph It it a any "They to is gospel, of I comedy mixed had So audience. is the I senior They The It of they as plays. their quite three-page, reading understanding I a I thought permission. vetoed People, '47, that ‘They: that church). at Lee got me subject know back their my the critical But of of wide around. letter editors but drama I it 1946, better give later some i5E's Hector and telling junior story mixed bit. Times her the using whole them but been polygamy and magazine offensive that's months in have horrified I'd and ahead was didn't thought Lees go I to touchy ébout So typewritten the it be Lowell a were written I to such folks letter. several of My and Monthly early--it buried. me single-spaced, was be C. Arts the there. that consulted it in should answer Theater because time--this editor to Well, somewhere to #1 they Inherit around WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS 1954; it Danish background was used Did WT: Yes, did They have such in time Maybe for Ephraim's centennial. So my did-- something. produce WM: WM: #1 produce a marvelous sense polygamy will can't be not is church they people. Danish humor. of L.D.S. the when about sensitive And the love I something. so to be chance a have quite performed. WT: for the general about 1952 for the M.I.A., and really well Oh, yes. WT: Who knows? WM: Then, I WT: WM: Yes, talked a when you and some know to need whose have we tutelage, as a student. West experience at scientist, Winn. Ohi, did: well Anyway, I've are, well But the others timeless, and you .? . know. knows. Who WM: are they But be. to that's extremely received. that. with satisfaction some had just was It received. was it of spring the in conference done was It done. been has Earth" the Inherit Shall "They massacre. the on is course, of one because performed, other, the and polygamy on is that two are There Yes. you? Well, High little about bit started of those I guess School. the at years I I your background. under University, as a student. should begin started out with to be my a WANDA WT: CLAYTON Oh, THOMAS yes. My WM: Well, WT: It it. He was get could another or WM: Right WT: Right I class the taught largely Madge Howe student flannel and physics at He pants. very collegiate that was Oh, and, marvelous. Goates, official me for to time. chemistry class class in thought so event, he a any In my! Anyway, was (I oh, had 6 a a into a I in those only marvelous decided that class but and days sixteen) voice he he was Now teacher. student teacher, because Creed soul. handsome very was He his of to in dear walked I So Wally teacher. a such was the in University. the gave finally I wrong. was working City? Lake by any brother My around. In that thought scientist. He be couldn't I serious Anyway, man. another or figure. waste a was that Creed Dr. uncle Dutch a a just had for was I well. a was Salt here. L.D.S. in. playing math in here loved just science in major did math brother My too. known class another just was speech working thought I class. speech a take time gung-ho just We education. like talked just he and home, physicists, were we And in very off it hit be theater. well a rather to know. you the at was I going field. believed We for we event, were from far a is academics. Haymond. I field far a that's passion and mathematicians, certainly for I brother and chemists, {#1 was wore white he looked I thought and, oh, a I WANDA CLAYTON Jjust WM: WT: thought So in to art was not up in from Maud I seemed with He ten, to his kept lukewarm. May from fall saying, science Winn, it admire speakers. I went eleven, twelve years ticket lived close the Master to regularly took them--I those things. speak. season would great But any got classes. I people. Dr. I was up to had Jjust the figured it and Oh, I a Pack taught out. I geology. What i/ I I Oh, loved was only all on she of about aunt listen wonderful to me, so fitted for those that get wouldn't and that by could some I stuff. series--my registered some have thing. I tabernacle garment and of whenever out You tabernacle dropped University, from drawing when heard just well was sometimes the like very superficial Artists to it Frederick Pack And from department. kind the I it. fresh think. child to and alone event a town. speakers. in Speech I go just as tickets to this than Minds he mean, liked was did have old to I all I I speech what you to We Wally it. and "Now know,+ was But into But enough, Babcock's assignments You, there myself. Then ideas Strangely more did When your particularly. class. University us. to the him of one, use of sort decided a switched was Lomotiviate.. I you because I Anyway, of wonderful. because-- first day was words, caught the #1 he other Well, At THOMAS me. science wonderful inspired the to me. sciences WANDA CLAYTON was THOMAS i1 drama of the moving and had great a all the very Speech major. now the I oral interpretation Just before Speech you was WT: Oh, yes. WM: Her reputation? WT: I didn't didn't know reason precedes under WT: No. That me. was Goates I knowing is went her May of the I so as a Maud Liberal which little out And from Building, the you met is southeast there with an so your her at all. class you heard about Goates. I really they a teacher's become reputation anxious to study case? person class She was 8 so. who that recognize into first University. particularly the your Had Wally oftentimes and say Babcock. I the that, not was started this, before this to seemed Maud teacher Was with about ask the them. Wally he I Arts that down took basement earth did. myself I Building--in on her much class the realized really put Liberal of class. go know I I I everybody from before? The the understand drama. the drama changes. Speech in called the quarter first down her WM: the Communication room. in wonderful for The we universe; first Babcock Arts--what WM: these feel after May the I have started I had rather an to admit me out, talent and fearful authority of that because he urged her, figure. not And I WANDA CLAYTON knew WT: the seriousness down-to-business her. I to because she see, was going class together. more or hadn't given listed in was it, WT: Yes, it was know one that is WM: That Maud WT: Made me me I one memorize. can do WM: Oh S ESEhinks WT: (Oh, WM: Well, yes. end, and to is hope "The my Highwayman", voice is and believe improving.) so. when techniques (I only memorize? That that. goodness. teaching Oh, you made May I class. that in learned I beginning from word-for-word poem step now Right class. interpretation an first class? interpretation an What the majors. for catalog the took just I so And together. We time. same the at I same the in were We school I her, of science. into go to graduated we thought. much it know personality? brother. through went less a produced she'd fearful also but going was older mean, I plays strong a I my seen as not did I No, her, such follow to herself studied. had thought had I You presented person. had people have did She of under study Anxious it. kind or Hall Social the of of lot a know WM: WT: #1 very at WM: THOMAS It's you oral that Only so scratchy became a and teacher interpretation. you they learned weren't g gravelly.) Did from so yourself you Miss much use you some were of the B? techniques. She had a WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS philosophy "Think home to rather the think student, though you weren't than thought." and a #1 She'd it say, that done it the meaning behind WT: She wanted the meaning and come from searched could she until my say felt. was none two way-- No you Go would you're of I your soul. went home thinking? turned you give They say doing?" as as if it she wanted it you. And see; so this said. and From and I've inside I out." I to see what everything was audience your back you on "How thought honestly your to turning and perhaps thought you thought! thought except your had you feeling, techniqdes, them. And not are any that motivate Oh, what the from I'm brains insisted you you, yourself. attribute WT: was, thinking. often thing it genuine. wanted No not she emptyheadedly, She WM: And fool WM: to Basically "You're through." "What's had techniques. cannot that she audience saw; feel what oriented. people. to There It was a mumbling. mumbling. great Project! on posture. She couldn't straddle or ungainly. present She wanted yourself idealistic point in of Stand would do up not let things you to the view. 10 straight! with stand best When in you your a think she was slouch. And you feet that dignified possible I Oh, way. about were way It her, and was I an think WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS #1 she reflected the the tabernacle of perfect if ideals the soul, to bring yourself; time. yourself to middle or She I her; from you Bl A GRS better than so she was h S R and so, took she seemed I and she five but as not just let T ditd you she SSword, to word a say or 'let she™just Some didn't in classes many regard té a was student. each dE S Ehidin kst My R T the philosophy. i f that. notice in rleligion many, tofpieces; to began I time. her worth murder, with by get I yoult s heNdiidnitt e pilcls SaixesEta of how exactly remember can't And She this out to state. God. tieaech her. about that discovered I Now, best the bring to trying was was earth on high to "t body slouched believed who person a was she but the here a insult an viemynelliigiilosMplerisioni. S Shedi'dn class, That were you and almost was that shoulders the the in crumpled were you of so and¥sot WM: And WT: And it, yet WM: Medioecre WT: Mediocre she that were they or couldn't take students? you waste were much on exactly Not students. didn't if they if felt say-- we shall you. she just--but would she on picking time the with hopeless, them. pan frying I that began she mediocre, but to had discover hope for she was you. WM: She could see some potential i1 in your ability and WANDA CLAYTON going WT: THOMAS to Yes, draw draw Frank it oS out? out. And would she fantastiec. she'd tell thiatsa) because Lot you ofi told you that; people was--well, He kill would Governor us this whole Do you recorded and the University Yes. WT: But in any that she gone home she was event, and thought extremely Did you, than don't on degree, this ifSEed cared about good you is the that? just Maud May [It was best you Library.] make about things that, you you. She after And the must class. she was I have think more of a example. started her--not that she good. own. But when "What years rawiinigesf I teaching, only thought really was thought, to would try using to her pattern style and but-- know but my a after philosophy, wanted she in out. you story remember conscientious. when yourself method she And critic her, at could. good I now tell story it Plummer Maw's Celebration. is bringing Gail Babcock WM: WT: it Whiting telliSS WM: #1 I and was is before the I myself truly discovered when I of was first convinced some asked to Stanislavsky for read all did me techniques studying excitement my it." after that her afterward master's Stanislavsky about? nomiayviouriself . drawing 12 patterning That, £from Miss you B I had know, yowumr . own WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS brought that WM: Were they WT: Well, I that was She WM: just like Jjust as with Governor the Maybe the a her, that. little that Maw people played It's WM: And WT: She a but But girl. as she came when they could. was she had a She was just side to be. Especially This was the an way undergraduate her darling. could back. I the with she was he was that she and WT: To me them. would dare do was a know sure not she felt wouldn't out know did in They don't But had-- instance. she WM: just a sounds so she 1like I of of austere that austere the felt just--how hug her that, you With and Stanley she would know. it, when you know lady? quite is. in some seem girl. doesn't word herself really little character, very what and it. almost Me? and succeed, just giggle. don't but saw she for that in she delight was It whom part possible, Russon, I about sweet men of instructor. WT: WT: know of out students? don't some had WM: softness mediocre was an #1 describes She was just her. so I just dignified ways. pleasant? do you approach a queen? I don't know. WM: Oh, that I see. they Well, saw her maybe with it was dignity 14 in and everyone distance else's that she mind did WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS not--maybe WT: I think No. e asit finish for beginning thought and idea another that WM: EESEaNd WT: It's a that that Let hard e s idea as it a hard fall. Let listener the When into that And her she must she'd have but it never will not other people (a common What have and "she'd experiencing) thought emotion at could words here." you have years often now her you "And heard the fit later "'s'he'? the I'm think hot to continue end she she meant just at sustain the it one until from it ends. thing. concepth one her She find go, that the doesn't course, in through "to' the to here." you that i SNt train 1t? students weakness the I met sickness have already a she knew everyone had. broken So that wheel. And "Right straight along, well was ultimately to And yourself. say, she little begun 15 of she'd that had out her do. nearly of feeling So to that wind tierriblepattern. through think, sure got thing was the gives years. such I RENcuilit the sure so 1930 forgetful. let That f9 ST B8 di'din""t straight sustain is in people and people. have--of couldn't M you' ve most Formal? her I'm she to didn't be "Right byfSthiat ¥ i st And she to older say, to know. e itiirie'd Wi nw when problem formal had sentence. that the I begun a would don't that s ShieM already very Because remember say was the--I either. to she #1 I took her. I'm tiny strokes over the have them. she was So WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS not standing And when #1 as tall as beautifully as she her of some "dignified," say you and once did. pictures show that. WM: Yes. I have WT: When I had WM: I'd like was the dilld tape. when master's your for univiersity ‘thiel ol netiurnt Svioulss her and degree, B.A. your achieved you when date 1lift about--what here in questions of couple a get to she the of side this on more bit little a have We then age. old of mannerisms little had she and glasses, she'd and fussed, She class. to dog her brought By stoop. to begun already she'd her, beautiful. They're these. seen degree? WT: I class of to money the have didn't I 1933. I but 1934, in degree B.A. my got Well, was of graduate the in L3138 That's WT: Terrible I event NUSE ST hat s’ when back again you WM: Did WT: Yes. WM: A WT: YieissaWe go IR it you, in was I think. in back I came fall of 1940 then I Then the And And any to and came times. teach? and a et think ‘met I several in teacher .I . depression! 1934. in diploma my received time. depression Terrible depression. University. the the was That right. WM: high school? wentaltion Callifornia 16 and . .toeok a teaching WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS certificate Berkeley. #1 in 1938 And my from first GHtHESEtn N RalllofSAiEloll After WM: Got WT: No that your I the I didn't war. came back '4U5 uynder Not as your WT: I ¥ Thiats wass a. taught here again Castilleja junior '40-'41., I at a left at School high Lowell I in high '43-'44 appointment to teaching. assistants? for situation. came '41 back I during went back school in Sacramento well as the as to and summer of Lees. as a faculty war, I finish up I I mean Teaching member, taught quarter. I dildnit tl clet e mys thesis. My thesis as was think WM: You obtained WT: Yes, I did. left and I my M.A. did--what but to I got . was three .done, pretty I do call they . it obtain did some them, was during .eighteen hours hundred sritdiculous s sum. work degree. Because required. lelas's - work class wasn't my assistant. quanterttsltawasiiseme get in after and trying student per at California degree? was the was it see, Lowell; an job of degree? finish Let's University here. master's California WM: came the And dollars so or, didn't much behind I really finish me, a but my my finished. your I thesis started finished certificate under under under until Lowell Joseph Lowell 1947. 17 Lees's But Smith, Lees. I I direction? but didn't he had finally submitted--let's see WANDA CLAYTON what was THOMAS did a I, Now, us trying called produced. WM: I'm play produced #1 That's in you about interpretation WiT: Yes. And WM: Now, you WT: was a Which is acting, more than oral Altogether? It have that to say address as with WM: I WT: And was was the emphasis writing your on were to be It was directed it. talking This a was with primarily emphasis in I considered oral In having reading? my master's. was as took a Speech to theater--in and work mean, and then? theater I certificate. play interpretation were had '43-'44, teaching undergraduate We it Wilson you secondary required. address. And it is-- purely my Hyde Babcock. about it. master's--oh, during when Miss getting talking back step my Dark. Robert which produce public And much I public good deal majors, of some interpretation. see. we did teaching take some acting certificate, teaching theory, interpretation, WM: Box. what the came under oral are in another working I I Play made think Stars why the to Then after your appointment you you so and in had much so got here to to too. But have, in public address, acting and much your that master's the play degree, University of in getting addition so much a to oral production. did you get Utah for the faculty? Wil No. I went directly back 18 in 'd45 to Sacramento. I taught WANDA CLAYTON at THOMAS McLatchy High Sacramento college, Lowell about Lees to me to Wik And WM: A WT: A at teach and I at that it took While I was I I not I that could such a a join course, come nice position at received would Of a the junior telegram the from faculty was just back at as heaven here, and had been in 1946 position. level. six was In the to do weeks meantime I Lady Macbeth that's what that-- actress? actress. Lowell, along me And with Plummer wanted I level? for think guest Gail if offered that back guest me that be 1946 1947, professor. to teach brought March think especially In College. asking assistant And School. Junior an WM: #1 help and back, I from some too. think of The Lila the Eccles others, others had convinced Brimhall I was watched me and told, who over the years. WM: This is turn this about the over and [End WM: This is Thomas. side And appointment professor You had end of we've under already one a the of tape just C. this side of the tape, so we'll continue. side B to of first interviewing been talking University Lowell been a Lees guest 119 tapel of in about Utah the actress Wanda receiving as an Speech when Clayton an assistant Department. Macbeth played WANDA WT: CLAYTON THOMAS here. Who Dick Keddington. really played a There and should and I, And people with This WT: Lowell's Was WT: Yes, role I eUtE N June, we played for moved. the the of hero. it, Dick characters. Genuinely moved. really quite for often first had become I've played some reason. roles? for Shakespeare the a say. must I roles the more me was it me. the Not he go something on. I like cleared to add in arrived that, 20 and here got I I a I little town they guess, I it, were found an was through extremely was footnote about I assistant an me give event, any In to at about-- me professor. idea hadn't have I But When though. professor assistant Tell 1947. in Lowell's but an M asisistant channels. disappointed. before We Shakespeare that, was It professorship, whatever terror. all Of to Utah of neoiti¥an instructor. for thought first correct walst sorry were was productions feel sympathy experience, you now, to need other It direction? I was Macbeth. played. I University the WT: It was. it of back your of one Well No. deal Lowell's an seen and audience comes marvelous didn't production. quite first I Pity great the that it WM: pity. a I've direction. perhaps was play. be in incidentally? was found a remarkable It He I under was WM: Macbeth, tragic Macbeth, WM: #1 the having this to fifth a of Theta WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS Alpha Phi could to 1947, of party go the middle of And, A Without WT: Without phone. West High doing. In Junior High any He School to I did at School had Wilson Bob Lees "Lowell the in at nine be there. in on the was in-the-making. an was It original itz iiniailie e vie ciyithii nigi. » Biolbl position. Lowell manager." so to So speak. to said began I I didn't 21 to work get promptly. They to It Valley. secript, original some official thiad "Get him, West Promised first mutsichauon had at up show morning the erisp dramatic little these I So this had Bob obediently nine rehearsals started to me pull loved event, had arrived, until party rang. course, of And, important. was things. stage my all see said, He told he explanation any of way to the the morning--I the phone things into get the from arrival of to I was This lot to in two or sleep--the of a as theater the happy home get the of and so was of Wilson. anxious so just lot quickly explanation? any it knew year as bang. morning," WM: centennial one to report to Hyde excitement I end other you wants Robert didn't gotten the on a was About dressed course, of I I that barely just lot oh, midnight. after Of the everything. friends got including pioneers. on. I party. remember, going old somewhere. there, you the was to were people i#1 Wanda from the breathe. to the be moment But that I WANDA CLAYTON was THOMAS the even most remarkable though twenty WM: I WT: There I hours can were This was WT: The stadium. the of as them. I stayed for . conduct No. He didn't Blackton who done the hits was to that people treasure, eighteen and happen. in the we had the the cast. And wonderful an people. One the has hit a Gates for time come on was technical been to happier a worked depend exciting have had could is and I up many, come up time. out to direct orchestra. He the the composed conductor. whole from in the on. parties Helen Oklahoma Alfred original It was a and a high 22 the music. Lowell project. choreographer. so I Schumate College brought that knew Crawford conduct. success I I technical was choreography and be couldn't that. California Larry that was conceived singer, just worked seen with because Now I course, to great from on But and and I I stadium? them Sacramento .1947. of the students years. And, of technicians director here. I've hundred helped Schumate. many one myself. yes. three opening my They Larry and just-- couple with killed that, over WM: summer day. understand I WT: nearly a well, WM: #1 Lees Tamaris, and Drake, Oklahoma, summer point It of in many who was hard the was Jay directed, who had Broadway was our the lead work state. and I WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS received a president WM: That's WT: Oh, wonderful of the he the He cut -down version production night. played We long WM: I would WT: And WM: WelsIS SR A pht say sold we for So I that not of the Lees created. everyone who forget was it. Valley a now. marvelous in three the Do have or you a But that thing. Very audience weeks think. They was every four, remember? I've It was the say then classes every night. *thiel firsts from and it He came worked was Ralph about for came conducted that as when were that an a made 23 to the he as week theater the for he“did second toe, service. We was property stage manager. period. in those It was early production in disappointment of Gates.] my professor. started asked three the up and you Crawford assistant you under “that from back for by school ishow California excitement think one weeks. there. of [I three back think arriving Well, I them, height must weeks st hiatist down manager I for out came been 1950, think people it about was because years. 1947 and run. it the I Lowell Promised thousand three a in Maw McKay. never The Governor that did. will of Ten 0. excitement that exciting. from David really with forgotten; WM: of connected had citation church, kind did. original WT: i#1 in teach? September, what kind WANDA WD CLAYTON Well, the THOMAS I was #1 asked established in the they staff an extra second section? WT: A second section, where course, needed. Speech Silent Reading program program teach But I One or not, occasionally see, classes Lowell and in was and people overflow that and at kind of a pawn they undergraduate first. They quickly. That disappointed me what put me was in a terribly. I'd the I for many years. not many, an advanced else did I Psychology one Communication. I teach? did of Speech. I filled I taught in theater. I 40nie.. class. Many quarter, did teach many wherever got I hid ifd address one the hoped Discussion. teach quarter. I public I silent with did to courses. connected discussion. ill, used something teach Argumentation Basic from courses Zingoiciciaisyioniaitsaie tiinigy ve 1 ajsis, vAlc Biitnig Let's over established an was were very which acting did left regular was I These taught to the their there whatever, mainly reading mean, was person-- A in of whatever I Wherever WM: fill teach faculty. had, taught. needed to when Debate sections they of needed someone. WM: WT: Didn't you in direction? I the any had to things be feel very versatile. that I had versatile, But hoped 24 I that didn't to. But they get I to loved could put teach some the you of students. WANDA CLAYTON I THOMAS loved me to teach WM: They WT: No, they the totem didn't pay me pole. But I classes. leftover My off. legs of Redd ahead WM: Mary Webster? WT: Well, of me. interp. oral me. There by of ahead They to got got classes. then me the It and I could fill course, you they paid And worn out now. teach any . .the so happy. they what never hours, ran I said until years Brimhall Lila' There I And diction. and my literally mean wuntil interpretation. in was many many, with returning I I voice I the matter as wasn't Tf on remember to eighteen it. for and space. the no loved man taught I with And taught that low campus--run, everyone and won. the have enrollment had was machines sewing crush they? because class, "Ph.D. much was she ¥my why did across walk always I like I teach Catmull We was that retired a are iiNgot l'ong¥aftern didn't of knees It are. they And eighteen--I than fewer class me--and on loaded a over. was war The the such was There G.I.s. with burgeoning a was there much. would to wherever building, wondering though, very class and dinosaurs kept much very say=--from should I fun. much you pay didn't the anywhere. so having for #1 Marion was was-- into pathology. there interp. wasn't 25 was Louise classes. until Lila after there But Hill got she ahead Howe some Joe was of retired the and WANDA CLAYTON after THOMAS Louise Mallonie, #1 Hill that interpretation acting WM: And WT: Waited WM: and you bided and That was How did you Babcock. And in public literature training until Ph.D. up with knew I studying for into oral you, All my department: address. And my language was, you might theater and go did with And so don't I in the was in ‘my two dramatic my really Oral know! address. public a over interpretation comparative theater Miss from emphasis department. say, principles, published oral was I textbooks. theater, the about field? I My swas'"in+ the fresh basic been on. didn't sixties. essential had I 1957. Ph.D. minor So the latest the my so and in it. into in was that books My W Phi.D.f got the had what and Mind progressing a in interpretation Mrs. get information it's history I eclear my learned the subjects allied got I to work. until because BistaNES thieate s waited keep able became waited. your But the interim, and I Mallonie, extracurricular. time keep of many was and had I and graduate didn't because good the though didn't. really and students even I Well, was waited graduate Mr. really your have married I directing interpretation, WT: Howe They go together. WM: Well, up with if you were interp. an actress because that 26 you is were the in most a sense essential keeping part. WANDA WT: CLAYTON Oh'y THOMAS yes. #1 You're 1living the minored in English Miss so as to deal of literature B. great felt well which know prepared on those teaching on the graduate WM: Now, taught Wl s Yes. WM: What in WT: your You be than think students knew everyone. "Don't take a students was tolitie Ny oluial 1t tit e’ story I think perhaps class in 1929. He I began a 27 the much the more vabout our high little collar, more been It such. and such caring: obvious. of I the have Thomas, President it. entering he you notes, ‘President and may professors. compare And I thousand. of He's there here. have of him. without think couple on. things; this I illustrates this before had a would for came I quickly two students We professors Thomas a campus. in 1929, all so "¥and on about knew from class Belsurewtoftake®mtha s, George I when couldn't it We The because read itself? in around an the under had poets. saw hundred but was know. had department. here you can't campus. intimate I them years campus hovering somewhere into the figure, that on wrong then, modern that eighteen like something were did for entered I When size. thinking people I level. on major? B.A. language got changes and And my the thirty-one department the Well, for major the in and for interp. except up are all And materials. brushed you part. was freshman rather WANDA CLAYTON old It THOMAS #1 fashioned. seemed WM: Ancient? WT: Ancient. to I me don't that he [laughter] I row. I didn't just a shining-faced, took very telling high school and along what said, and Mr. He not Well, any event I was still plaza in call, say, fall front we act first were 1like name this by their not to with a or I and we should say, "Hi clear "Hello." 28 he And I We And from you called down you gct with I said, are Miss the point. Imagine And, oh, across I this or he heard us we do called the voice should you do," We were "Hello." stopped I later--it walking "How now somewhere name?™"™ told I He were weeks say, there," grownups. behavior names. was was say. seriously. six Building, to hear your I Anyway, reached last Oh, and dignified He very five Park hello."™ to Everybody took the morning," want Wanda." like our "Hereafter, weather--when of "Wanda, "Good and to something I second days. had girls."™ time. the students. and the girl. Thomas "What's said, those old So-and-So." friends about change "And hiesssiaidl, are your "boys he You say President not on year university Clayton. would sixteen at man. in to Clayton." calling makeup was o0ld sitting students line in was he an should fiinigier W anidi "Wanda quite we So-and-So RS was old how women," the Miss us how wear seriously was "men even know me dead by my in my WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS tracks. I WM: And had WT: Never you couldn't met "Miss #1 believe never him met along, him except Clayton." and except that Well, how it. did I one this time. he asked like the once? It me was supposed how I was university to be getting and Qas very friendly. WM: Informal? WT: And, all "Glad to my classes of All this president WM: A WT: Knowing little until would And he that it. and to now stopping show freshman cross, we'd sit used me at the on. Well, how knowing from ask and chat. He kind time. I didn't interested. of first in time would a taking?" this your Well, he as you I recited end there. Imagine the students-- name. graduated, are you and first What so is my I hear me any time, to come testing thought he event, to picked name. my from when was our into his brains. ground. I just then my on paths office. I'm sure didn't know dear, dear friend. WM: Oh, that WT: RiefafiNSyE is so unusual. A nid& Department, alldls in oif ™ mys particular--well, friends elsewhere, like him. Ray Well, And absolutely "pro'fiessor's, Marcel. adored. They 29 I Frederick there were were so in' did ‘the Speech have lovely Pack. I just adored some of them I kind to me. You just just WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS cannot imagine. Department. like dignity. They here here I the They WT: As for and me . came side. being .this should and a those things made smile East first that feel. West these the in Plummer little all from All Gail warmth with those as can't my tell then, he you you was WM: Herbert Maw? WT: Herbert Maw Newhouse feel so They gave me welcomed Hfgh girl High girls in me. coming and mattered Speech me and families, my streetcar. whatever we'Thfad®t o university. school to family. a up who I had was those from days. were a to to every how was I fiolr He would I old regard to kind me. they wasn't to much In I were. governor that early practice 30 a dime I or think in office. to the And at That's event, lot Street the ' 'streetcar go working any meant Main paying. was waitress. school. nickel was payve law Maw still dear how address. blocks knew so appreciated little get and three I teacher. as it I public money his They thing--Governor taught He department, one just about that much depression walk in how Hotel earned the people second tell I'll or Maw person did. them I every human gave was. They west WM: a competing money. And Herbert wonderful, And #1 it to to was I'd catech the was ride meant-a nickel to morning I how me. nickel it the don't the before know WANDA CLAYTON what THOMAS building Newhouse would out he was Hotel. be of me #1 From standing his that in way nickel and considerate. WT: You just can't WM: WT: on all It must of wife, the been You must Oh, absolutely, tried have to Lees I had knew that same circumstances. feel WM: He WT: Oh, that was a they I WM: Maybe see. followers bent wonderful much think you I were meant he a that, so. She me. a All me that up Department, us. was And I went to save so especially they kind, cut you you liked them. loved them. I into my as a student. teaching And later me. because he came from wanted to make the I down really. for think C. I on Lowell similar students deal. think Miss cared. she And was all them Babcock she a special little of them. were. I 3il person set helped too can't anyway. that up them. But severe, and Redd was Marian it. very the actually. I of knew to great backwards, appreciated you it feeling, realized over to much that to "U". them. of close thereafter, pick the for loved think at to because I mattered master yes. early, her they I He, Speech harder little how he motivator because a encounter Everyone real worked carry because a was to parties expenses. have up The had it blocks me imagine. but corner. three bring very his early that about How and an on WM: Gail downtown, tell you how WANDA WT: CLAYTON THOMAS Well " don't possible, life I by would biggest were one You interrupt to easel. art something. . novel, more suicide they to I just was wrote and quite less she a thought a novel a biography had been her. thing Who during the about University found weren't about of dead about was that came me. I was around me too off to that. was he so depression went had seven Suicide to puppydoggish Not a there. committed days before among all You cold. university. when in to it. tip place The professors, do California cared? the This used that kindness. believe little his people. my to to California teacher wanted they and of don't art a turned hundred couldn't my he Sterling States. "Please and think I igreeting I kind interest five It's were University wast know. Plummer United said I Gail the me, don't they sheer the I souls. thousand said the that many thought.™ He at even United come went told .that or student That just friendliness. Stone was of wa SIS He know. that classes, friendly. Irving A kit my some know, you in professor taking feel twelve hEn and my I don't saved tell university RISTESSTESE and they because there I just contrast, where so. I think around, Now WM: think but everyone. McMurrin #1 students over the States. must from have this been warm extremely atmosphere. 32 difficult for you having WANDA WT: CLAYTON THOMAS Having come admit the from that the And you on how Yes. university we than before, the classes modeling. meantsiwhlenie Bairesthe that. of the from has been t hougihe population explosion actually their Yes. the about And professors tell manner of to whom anymore? I me. to know, student I have I've "This I would to admit it's think the Honors the beecause just digi'ss of some of just .the everywhere. of who--you faculty many student they're whether or faculty dress? course, used “thiink informality can't of I So situation." of a were I "If thing thought, I it. one learning entered saw I more the don't I like be. to oI - think first I disappointment genierail, i What the difference for after callous. teachers kind this a to many a about feel ‘modelsi2 When and make have models Who thought, I be." never withdraw this of one as Program to attitude, something how--well, would little a are little a have students will would student the now I the students that of how and have thousand accepting, And should now how size So change. And seen WT: the friendly, professors in university twenty-three experience. WM: of atmosphere. the because members the what warm of to feel faculty [ size had twenty-two, WT: this relationship professors, WM: #1 that dress 33 has up. changed As I say, a The great deal. when President WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS Thomas spoke so B. on. he was Roland expected to university well #1 as the a with a my that accepted I by the wore spats! were. I of be be just But whole to this dressed I a I back teacher. order thing me When came for in and to it. Guam jeans and were devastating in blue The you here well appropriate faded collar believe teaching students. stiff came couldn't was in I to were over. thought should with expecting stint I suit really sixties took wardrobe Found even You The from full teacher hippies returned a Lewis dress. groomed. when in to be had turned the student were having around. WM: It WT: Yes. was their And never sit-ins and all what do. Telling to classes that weren't anxious wanted The you I get a been feel you like terrible or as a to changes, in the vast frem time 34 to and a time. were get they telling want to sense of take what? They cultural relevancy. to wanted. us to their wanted do. And so, They my, changes. sixties, teacher? they Relevant they whatever on didn't give what was They they history do I when "relevant." to saw see, thing. that setting vast teachers'. time of learn basketweaving changes felt us to They have kind the You that weren't to Jjust at that background of forget. Committee there WT: I'll instead Affairs wanted WM: show what did that make WANDA WM: WT: CLAYTON Did you you were Yes. THOMAS have to Let me you were tell "She turns taught that motivator. WT: A motitvator, ® I8 WM: They these read me. But want sounded like as soon of adjustment with her teachers. in the old some take a back way half of did that, I said, had been slouching They whatever. And I make a anything. guess. I to try you of Well, them, bird, dodo fashioned heart. me off." and pot about up forms. to to Now They requisite. us from had these turns there, sensed you as happened. They report ("She stirred be and almost glassy-eyed to what enthusiasm." was sitting were of one thiought. chairs, didn't And to enthusiasm A their example the off WM: course. an ranking confused us kind you supposed Jjust some then? know, They in make teaching began, We #1 change? WT: Viiviachitonish, M Ndon at that vivacious them. telling cared about. I thought they and I I was giving was were treasures giving them 35 principles that I had I cared been thought handed were I was I that about; I have. to them wanted I what them what in believe wvery be to 'old too materials them and in believed things me I giving was And did I But time. ‘was I But ‘know." 't too bubbly, too been I've Maybe wrong." "You're thought, SBut S bty LH€ tlie clooiliediiiEi¥al juisit SRS Fild nEAL NIcESSHENG on to treasures. WANDA CLAYTON "Hoo, hoo, that WM: Was Yes, a you I think with more change was she's got was the too that-- Well, their different. met with a statement on a treasure." on couple You know reversing that cutting And edge knowledge Everything that researched right up by the that thought in had we'd gone through over 2500 years. had And so me, to felt the to a few new faculty philosophy shall a was Gardner had came out with we say, in an university The emphasis a that was to all earn our salaries myself, "On the cutting be almost and. important researched is ridiculous.™” researched Cicero where students teach many he wanted to very 36 so That's and been I Their should needed This because on when he speech? Aristotle line. in knowledge. we say. had--President put of to with gone different. said edge happy home. departments He I step brought president class. grants. at I'm time, have feel thought through of could were of I right out had the research. of attitudes reversal, the didn't values that the I they old-fashioned was I And a getting but like of at faculty. years, felt student retired I You in somewhat I though and be thinks retired? there as WT: she there But WM: #1 attitude. before WT: THOMAS this . had .you been Jjust discipline to the cutting nth go that degree edge? You WANDA CLAYTON can change really WM: Was new the the WT: THOMAS your style under the Was that contribution theater for "to thought with students innate stand ideas the That's best that? the way way you I the Communications hard was the because Theater They But evidence. re-creation. with were the The the last some Arts of to express it. And shall emphasis my Department. people Department carrying that we say, my was on Communications who had some of the Department 3 my really over on their own can you there plays was with a research, I and felt I truly the to in field. and training was said, imagination died, in out statisties it's not were moved Maw empirical It I on do publication. felt was Mohicans. your to bring how I field in Now, a reader's To feet The make was Governor Well, the my as And the could them, Communication of I me. is of artistie. contribution himself most perish? with for nothing from or and is art. that Department. Speech an was ability." about methods. is done two evaluate, present empirical been help there publish best student could of plays their felt It important my own The the and was To of but publications era had their this. for My what bit, orientation was talent. on to publish no my compositions. my their in the And I little asking this 's' right. writing a sun president faculty? That #1 Speech the I was, and Theater. over new died there. track and WANDA CLAYTON new THOMAS emphasis. sell more are I they doing? like theater make Wil= to their Well, the And the WT: No. Let's and Adamson department. if who was Byren in needed as MeGrath, faculty was it Department this time? by with his only majors purely and technical had 38 some see, there were that of but these Then, to in majors. the theater. director. nothing going among up .let's . was theater many so taught address majors it partially But Jack remember I everybody? of impressive very a was That else. someone was It department were who your Olpin new number a of under Olpin. theater. public division Speech Ray A. the who Adix Vern to Department? then? by it theater the strictly were trained He There divided you been by theater, purely pertained that Did research chose--how the McMurrin the because determined, media. made remember I remember I was Adamson. Jack the to dean. was don't Why meeting. with think the who see, It they how of know. about Theater Sterling was kind departments. the I and bit stay into go What else, where to organization, don't little speech was forgotten. I've a decision dean WM: television. choices presidents vice business something the to in really--I ask who was who on I and determined and based business, would the More products polities, WM: i#1 was be the And professors have would was He other not areas. there was He was theater. WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS acting. That background who was to his step taught theater #1 there or but to teach And ten students in theater combined. speech 'doubt’ Probably didn't, no. WT: So is that were named was in made spoke the how for up, exactly how Lowell just taken he give was you Ralph very for over the We 've "Well, of a there teaching to the and bit but I six. had. and it think Six, Theater majors. end of this 39 tape. you was people division time Ralph belonged in remember effect that want?" I think he was that well, as far all a in really hawed. were majors the the so ten don't you was And five he I to said teach times that felt what and guessed made he something hemmed he fiifty at but this Five when conversation, little they said was take--you Those a is verbatim, majors come And, concerned the few departments. went, aback "had meeting was sort you class. ‘we who theater. determined. Margetts, it said, was if Christensen, couldn't but if academic Lees, who particular There Lowell as our Ralph theater. just that Lowell a the Willam anything I have Wilson, there. WM: WM: Hyde ESEREHE ClyeSmajor'sic that else. right have and didn't dance. Robert five He anywhere wouldn't were supposed in nothing himself. anything forte. right. decision see, not to a I to can't bring share the requirement WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS [First WM: This is Oral History tape tape Marriott is i1 number to theater department, of one tape theater go to March about that a the 6, and theater of the the just who was of on made the the of My Thomas last the is doing a and section speech were name the speech the faculty department. of Clayton in said Cooley Room Wanda experience we Everett Eccles 1985. division department begins] A, in her and tape side We're on me second two, Project. Library talking ends, and chosen to Winnifred Margetts. Wanda, WT: you by this interpretation. What Well, about it was division--that retired. Mr. The Louise at got in question there. Babcock I guess how to and fall has never make down it o interpretation an newly oral regarded Feounidation people. where it as the aecting., If you didn't entrance and time--the it Catmull the of this because Howe--that Joe stand and up 40 lot in oral to--? into interpretation emphasis were happened Hill Mallonie--and oral an I time was and It time Lila before were considered was what was interp. belonged been really ‘you and had much to take lie a Department. of was the plenty more the considered always resolved. foundation how married I Speech the Brimhall she organized need of Miss theater, of oral training down scene, and and than sit how down to WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS #1 give-and-take one quarter in came soon Louise WM: Yes, WT: He Joe, them Joe Shakespearian without WT: Tremendously would we own a taught six or question, Lowell only seven of course, wanted me and actors. department who great B about that were his Miss taught So Catmull, second actresses was of of actor. the theater. course And I a say great 'great' But was hired by Lowell wanted as and divide an he associate But the taken in peculiar as than way I I to with time don't know who's were and all--Louise I were He I the They original the an they of had to H.E.D. group, wishes So for number H.E.D., mention That's was University the thing. hired definitely well. see, it. best one in that the at we as against students. of ability. you remember 41 So critical neglected was was director us. was I Joe directed had almost but had wanted staff, came, one not all who combined hired--no, acting I a actress. our Oh, in is of them. Redford, teachers we they best Lowell because Louise produced. all before And students state were years Theater. And Utah's we us, eleven that. fine. the introduced hired So reservation. And best. on. division. in actor, WM: I the because wanted so She interp. after wanted and acting. oral and he scene in courses up a of had was the more exaggeration, WANDA WM: CLAYTON but still But that if WT: THOMAS had word had this? theater cut by not The major. There to take a Interpretation, like this people think not keep because And the who kind of we We are. as the thin of we a move Joe in load argued, this or the Whoever markedly reads." And as 42 I we think do now school Department. Oral and One, Speech certification. Department. keep us Speech Miss To majors. of serves was I Department some majors. And there. education whether It were Education least interpreters, there many the English require good interpretation serve and want something the at not I it's to and do but Speech practical how toward had budget. secondary Speech on wouldn't and did major credit the and Now Diction, facts in experience. distinguish very That regulations itself. and Oral serve We they my us. speech in teaching true. theater. ministers. a that, it's "Well, or the a Anyway Louise of besides of just and taken especially classes was me was given least. taking it Department certification Voice were sure at have class and think I'm Speech education people, Now, the established requirements, I many. university certain those too couldn't allowed theater to had have they been The they taken-- but have all would they Well, a in #1 us said, more We than serve they're lawyers public address Babcock didn't a between disciplines. WANDA CLAYTON Oral It THOMAS interpretation was one a public time, you Address. And you it did words, Joe know, Catmull shall to we WM: be had served was close it require WT: fresh Energy, because great he act. And 'til three o'clock at the beck and was top getting a knew had He in that just way. He knew very trying 43 was, late, late to go his=--<he And he want to to. which would to-- that Especially he he not department, felt morning no Theater put did want at the in' service. plain didn't so morning had his said Because those he be in the act. the would a into take he was have So that, Louise to own of sixties--and done energy your top not go Public address. On at whether with and call the public, may to felt He that class. the me up thing. called public his growing of And in couldn't hassle. deal he had in He meant was ‘to want He of kind He not the also "1t He skill. or go. did retirement. in and to teach. practical background. he public. to a want of a words engaging tired. to the involved author's age--he on and addressed hietsialiid be say, and And not an rehearsals, you philosophical terms, reached art department still biuit Department had this the did tomEloiwie SIS fine performance whenever that uncertain a address were was is with you there be i#1 the beck he was thing to do, to get up and have if things were and to to erratic call, hired to stay up an and eight you WANDA CLAYTON didn't THOMAS have enough was the not wanting not come one about had who go with or so established could come half time me. us to the want to. was He one to who put Shortly fifty-fifty. had enough the half But to make on more that us, Joe to the Speech agreed still did not I felt "hiavie beien married got so always to/ i kel and And change. it. he give comfortable Louise that after was Department to the wiofublidi It Louise was "kabosh™ S of ideal. He did gotten time put. This students three that. the had he about split. Theater and so down the the was want eva e mbitsitraikiei W als time and stay not did foot major us, do his And of thought to wanted the ChtalE I on. the they ask so Department. after Theater wanted really just he and put and Theater theater which We at thought to Department, with the later, a Lowell times, really immediately year students. he rehearsal really, to out a #1 and left. WM: And WT: Oh WM: And Joe Catmull to did he yes, an would took take retirement. retirement. early was who Greaves sort that of arrangement Halbert Dr. early been have head of the agreeable Speech Department? WT: Yes, I although that he think we it never didn't want have would him, approached to. And 4y been we agreeable Joe because wanted to be to him, just felt together. We WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS #1 dfifdinSIRCINWESInSCRN G ol interpretation. At in reader's wonderful hiatve that theater, work. NiuEsEEREmolvieldBIREInENsE as WM: And WT: Yes. WM: Because Louise WT: Louise had was WM: a good to led that very had a and yet some now had by us by then. period in my the to it? we're oral back went who Some of just they liked and oral the say, the new=--shall had more we graduate department. We had back very then? doing were we But things. It career. up ask and to lively splitting among it. handling were then requirement active, dissension handling by left left like I'd Well, were of two the And the who in-- you of three the of aspect other had they as many we do department would in to thie department. our defiartment--that any than students llolved well so blossomed interest students people I oral opportunity many our 1968, By the growing interpretation oral the speech new=old say an many into in a were and theater had interpretation was us getting activity. creative this gave theater the liked they because there Falcit i viitiyeanid from changed them splits There were We between forth and time which creative interpretation. ainly your where. 45 it a split question. this faculty and there members was department? speech/theater up What of it You department, is who probably will go WANDA WT: CLAYTON THOMAS Yes. Oh, was the yes. It the Under WT: Under the growth of on. explosion And and mushrooming, G.I. Bill, the what the literal caused it growth and mushrooming of And there were her remember I getting things. .shall . stutterers, and hearing disabilities Wallace Goates, for He got to be in while his Ph.D. theater Smith 46 was set here. from taught auditorium. all lots they kinds from and Yale a was it '50, and 1930, in shifted instance, actually theater, Joseph in and first who doing were They country. say we the into theater. Theater 19. And very that about excitement I exams, pathology the the in hall Kingsbury aphasiacs help to things this in movement by And '32. probably in campus this on into students. Webster, Mary from pathology speech in course took I years. the over strides great took a that straight Speech knowledge. in breakthroughs very before After of burgeoning a just was there so mean. a university school high general requirements--entrance entrance without college the think changes. forced of I the to went out came this--just populations. G. 1.5 number substantial under people of RGOTITBINGSITHe EShie and university percentage small here coming Bill? G.I. the WM: big years departments. the And was population development; it #1 of were of the came up the University He got so deeply WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS interested time in There WM: was your was dean too chairman? By one chairman of the science things. and television push from people they got were But full anyway, shows the had a class arts. to On come from be so We that. much should to dealing they had vice you how grants. handicapped as they the all were Every in and into the top. Let's had 47 We away from had the say And have Speech One. anything was there was the very Edward that to or there like people. began and diction Then on medicine even hand being. But and major taking other managed requirements resented the that pathology getting speech voice be theater. with the felt to in much resented speech. have able of commentators, They president be head speech-trained like science. became government enrollment major. outside who people have the in and And want with also majors speech didn't do was anything, a certain to were department was Pathology They and that helping maybe burst which as for a who big audiology, were But there in over pathology. it? And and large one arts. and isn't interest by top audiology pulling. great switched country. that this WT: was the So and he sidetracking, field over pathology hearing that's that in #1 R. radio, a big first Murrow, Eric Severied, saying, "Oh, we shouldn't should have had political more history. We should have WANDA CLAYTON had THOMAS #1 journalism. We should background." So they another of training. for kind granted, whole wing basic class the began in And and more things more a year a repertory company? WT: Have a repertory company bones about WM: And that And he of WT: No, the he schools. wish didn't did The there, going show a required rest fact the over open have would They take want to was plan was requiring sets--I keep to building was the show a keep to receipts enough get take leaning planned His the something building he that to theater, and could event, Lowell when he for training wanted around that Have theater didn't he Theater. so any And things. WM: no design need the want years. of speech in They kind theater. the for But professional technical all feel didn't the this their classes. costume time the all pay toward Memorial Pioneer going over open theater the did. pathology. grew to took they acting like the all mean, it they saying the had beginning They me speech so more to believe theater, else. were have of the not. a great to and all. But that he hoped Pioneer Memorial, every single day time and of relinquish any of that the of the got he when the deal made wanted--he he he week. energy. the chairmanship department? Also, teachers. we were Education 48 having majors problems gave us with the the bulk WANDA CLAYTON of THOMAS our enrollment. students, And but the requirement butter of that the were reason teaching a things support a WM: WT: did his to he using theater those tiger by He he wanted In fact he could the he if theater. In And And he that the theater. In extent to is one lose thing control wouldn't fact. a was to do some so doing a education. the to as graduates and want that and he--this not did is on act to these going their T.A.'s of the students of around T.A.'s them most to sense, Now, all way and have had He tail. wanted to done students. the in help for people a The graduate finance And He in Lowell. over only the plans. feared. graduate be bread jobs, by that enough the surrender enough to to was to the means education assistants. mean was have our control get undergraduates. were all want needed really he Yeah. him not graduate general appointed have the the these us were to would words, enough in degree--a that of teaching financed--I Lowell that gave assistantship getting of and and were--not bulk One, graduate enabled T.A.'s other that wanted departments the Speech coming he control were they university-wide courses including And they then, then #1 support from his faculty to second what do? leaned bring in on a it, T.A. yes. who 49 That's could right. teach a But class, you pick see, up WANDA CLAYTON a THOMAS little money back stage, him from to time fill to all fields. of them. had in with the forces did. problems in the them up deep sense of him. crushed could he think the because happen, one I held have want not did really forces were together it these all these see what their have that basic all together. I had a He people that he kept that he think there so long want it think I And it. part not did He had it But No strongly. as a had all were they over. as of deny all hurt to and I divorce. a like was really He divorce. that to It have sympathetic felt time the where problem figured he I could us probably actor student everybody. few a same the and family, of family. the at But nights. did loved he they And in away keep to wanted department, nights. But altogether he use controlling heart--he So think I So exams break an graduate tradition his also as factor. wasn't to a load. his say. also he And up so could him was the took he we he him from wanting think kept critical And shall philosophy. a And common. parentage, class himself use also the came Lowell also T.A. was He they few load, survive. could This Lowell All really he time. one. to and students that were there Lowell's graduate admit #1 I Lowell, think. WM: Now heard say you felt others say this you it was 50 almost a tragic crushed thing him, for and Lowell I've to WANDA CLAYTON have to years you WT: THOMAS have after think Well, made that this I and He they he had speak, to going the beginning beginning Lila And load to he to wear to he his Now They they time. and addition WT: In addition. WM: And one in had In along to can devoted to do your to all that regular the of it must say along in And so already It was a a for And they to keep it were I Qas years. of wearing direct. but so some carry credit come. that to that, to and having the out. terrible terrible directing. later didn't on at the that extracurricular. teaching. the number productions. 31 control. theater years. think kept chew, well were I could I more feelings want universities. to he Do hurt faculty teaching came conceive to so getting other was were trying he little of and Joe. in on lot with Louise depended Theater WM: be well this. new like co-directors did You no out. weren't University out, this? in than And to rooted a two Utah. a didn't brand did. wear was a led or of is he more start way teaching load. to off that sooner, and one left with off only University he it's break bitten that then to was causes people coming, Brimhall people of it try the think It the reason I lot see left of the wanted break. he one but a could And that think were that was complicated, there i1 of I hours think that they're had a WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS hundred run i1 thousand a hundred dollars a thousand show. deollar And of course business you just as don't a side line. WT: No. It it wasn't was a maybe terrible beginning to from him. under he came WM: T U3, WT: In in '43. quite lot. feel He And that was it was real he came was it '43? all of in those days, but beginning--Lowell was support when or inherited much he the Because 'U44 that was here Miss in going the Babcock's out 1940's-- talented people. They All ready But say, they'd get their else. But someplace And then company. And kept began they That's the what they that's tugging at his he had lost this wonderful only have way 52 he the see. last a hang could you now, And arm. having pot a and away go about scenery, of faded "But in. coming then talking for replacements. few and degree hilt, had students graduate these had he I as into years, a were there Sure, away. dropped brought twenty after people, the anybody fell he And to pay we home, from props amateur didn't He Everything. those And eager, dime. a everything. did honey. And, Young, brought We anything. away, go. demanded never we to go. to ready were Yes. teach support. professional on to them. I Lowell," conversation I had WANDA CLAYTON with of THOMAS him his you in the Pioneer reception were when right. theater."™ was #1 kept wearing his just the We WM: meant stayed for WM: This WT: It right. Wanda, and amateur You see, couldn't from to stay to get up New up in he pay his York, but longer. And the morning. event-- not paid. there were they so a had musicals And actor union professional the paying of them situation. all the But let me profits from you they abroad been He had devotion to the a lot had He the No of us otherwise a had. 53 He could one of lot had He caring. theater. seen have to enough a He brought daring. utter absolute, deny breath him that of He best the of some opportunity was Lowell the imagination, the And right. was he when time tell theater. community of a at up imagination. have took situation. years glorious gave Abravanel Yes. difficult a was things. not he day "Well on. had too, a not difficult a was headed he And have people but early stars any said, the festivals. summer were had out. In was professional that, amateurs didn't he (it free. That's the him jealousy, orchestra union in his other and mix bring around. that was There people, WT: did professionals Jjust can't amateurs He Theater retired), telling professionals. that he You I Memorial that. we fresh And would air, WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS really. that But Miss staff. was worn do I was more WT: mean and Lowell he was He wanted He to do and he And wanted could to do be by the time--you he got a Ford WM: Either WT: Rockefeller, that also, for time; own hifssitiafi f crumbling WM: Oh, WT: And there on. But I'm sure he by who to do prodding. to do more--you above And all anybody out wanted us pulled. this worn the who and see, was and wanted for, you He people that could had didn't or his the not gone he? do so Was far it ambition think and students. going he other. a Anyway, Department--he endurance were I out. pulling liked and see, State 'his' and loved one See, his be But people us to more in know, he took I it things. asked him to it. as Ford And I think to--I think grant? Rockefeller. the overseas. the trained responsible worn pulled, to of it. grant, or was everything not been wanted pulled, pool entirely. People who seriously. wanted her criticized People a had and education. audiology. WM: don't being in such largely contention he mean, inherited out, the See, he Babcock her with #1 outran the And was to his own endurance I he think of he was to take take plays energy his felt and faculty, it was away. knew that. some--oh, they came 54 there out were of contentions the and situation, so and WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS perhaps he Lowell because at there one way WT: Oh, WM: And WM: I were some people know, and can I achieve I did. wanted were grouched They think They came I accepted this to come. against that den't anything. here frustrated. often of certainly because another Because his just And I will. I disappointed one way and were just frustrated. have greater through their still there, goals own another than they talent. absolutely. yet the when Can't my part anyone artists occurs WT: be held because--you personally focus. he and Well, to. university think the to wanted this think just anybody they don't WM: was compelled Job #1 goals you reach own can't them. you're activity I so and you in We to into want then, go for Theater, to our or that all the frustration them. myself right You brought listen might some now frustrated of that. had We tape would herself, 55 the by would If who theater director, University like regarding considerable advice prepare the activity: this up performer, of question to have active media theater actress--what she an the first any actress--you me. were plays an find like writing as reach and inadequacies. Gee, were are to the some Theater. young to woman be an recegnition you want and specifically tec you University aspired success, ask leave her so prepare WANDA CLAYTON THOMAS herself Wil for Well, know to part of how is You've is Wolul she in don't else in, for in got to--you be Lady to her see you eye-gouging the in gouge would start it laugh, and real such reduced to toughest thing in I to that. ever I motivate had 56 to yourself what imagining. do, u'sie before I could get with to the make a be to had scene, And Regan. played of eyes '‘real scenes few the always the when do 'her 'I's I I t hie her..You she here? Glouster. scene that I and couldn't bring myself to How could anyone be it. doings? horrible are? of time the you clothe in anyone beautiful, does than out I'd because lot to "If playing that "Whiat Lear. to expect of a ion? terrible were to feel What a King participates make had in Regan to stake scene we scene that I Now real. character got you're have faist character my with sympathy in you've ‘yiourisiel £, " other at to you takes You weill1) has believe environment. is What in? do she repeatedly, inside That Macbeth, with relationship know method. shieflisiNolfifisit-ajgielitias said don't to " Wil tihiint an in her put to Macbeth." Stanislavsky-Babcock have you think think You've--if going have I how if example? I Babcock yourself, ever hfalvieStioligior mean, Miss woman, audience for acting I you?" beautiful the to her. in believe Macbeth, into yourself. believe a say, goes that's believe it role before just you a #1 that And role. that the was Because I had WANDA CLAYTON to throw see I had to I THOMAS King play to as civil the a into from what If you're Sartre's play. preferable did. kingdom an I some of What And you yourself put physical violence yourself in Cut WT: Well, to WM: This stems WT: I'm sure from it that where situation beginning somebody who smokes hold Jean has Paul to is take traitors? the time when Put common. more much was to strength with into it's anarchy somebody back you a off they cut to think they the it was well within in get to ever could I way only cocaine, tune motivation. myself huh? a play with This the is principles. Babcock's back Well, find and echaracter thing. play really and part is I So do whether Hands, do view. that I'm event, any in of nose the off WM: Dirty always of duty You now. it do to ought war, thief. a catch they if hand And choices your you sort Mohammedan a do that of at order, father. peint believe responsibility. to is in the have that. Sometimes you kind own what enemy, played Unless to do Now, together. hands. My sympathetic she fighting dirty storm. never a your organization the could role ruler? requires WM: out justify or the Lear couldn't--Wanda had have #1 your Babcock but does, I don't know it would be Stanislavsky whether yours training and 5 that's it may the be then. discovered Method one way or the not. that-- same WANDA WT: CLAYTON THOMAS Well, I came from go as you wonder if it far you as they You something I in when it's get these made tell shared, it this when know I don't waves. live young it the Babcock didn't role an he;rd. shared EhiE and SIS Remember You are experience and Because audience and audience ‘yourself. works. know, Method student. ¥for a The the was yourself It's you Miss there hils S actiing like Method. just that communication. nothing But you knew would the guess. and yioussaresneitdoin gt with that always else involved I did, projected there's fits Stanislavsky, mumble. and #1 is you with it's know, you. an You absolute Chr il WM: I guess that's too would WT: Oh, absolutely. WM: To the prefer WT: Oh, WM: Then, a favorite WT: Well, of course WM: You played a WT: Y s/ WM: That's WT: Blithe does. It so many actresses or actors theater. really you camera the With get don't feeds you, doesn't about Lady Macbeth. though too. It that. need You reaction. loved live pictures. motion it reason that it? does. role? talked I've lot comedy of INddl a very Spirit it different was because just the kind a acting. circus laughter 58 of from for the me, just audience a ball. was just I WANDA CLAYTON like THOMAS champagne delightful WM: WT: Oh, did that was And then I was Jjust a SRS BUER it And being too wasn't WT: Oh, yes. WM: All musical wasn't it, Totally We'll keep Well, I Your Get a There oh, And, dressed. wives. end. to the in out Gun was hard. It no depth to was ‘tos I ‘wite- ghost it that Not the the be don't ot oif: know know that of acting Wanda? it, to style different a was it the style. end this of side going. don't such beginning from really. of biet Yexipan siiivier and" different we're right, was fun. was a It one Wi fie,, fun Annie role, tiot wasERfuin' had-=-it just easy very were festival. summer me. ghost. theldead in being loved over you fun, beautifully and the maybe fun, Jjust all played thought the in I eSS a s And doors WT: I wa s e TR prickling thing. you? stadium WM: #1 we 59 need to, do we? of the tape. I