William R. Gould, Salt Lake City, Utah: an interview by Gregory C. Thompson and Floyd A. O'Neil, part 1

Transcript (168 pages) of several interviews by Gregory C. Thompson and Floyd A. O'Neil with William R. Gould, in 1994 and 1995

In this series of interviews, Gould (1919-2006) discusses his childhood, early education, family and friends, years at the University of Utah, and his courtship of Erlyn Johnson. He also duscusses his naval training at MIT and Dartmouth, his service duty, and his employment with the Edison Company. Other topics covered include negotiating with utility unions, his thoughts on American corporations, California politicians, experiences as a CEO, the World Energy Conference, railroad history, Cold Fusion, architects, engineers, and artists. Interviewers: Gregory Thompson and Floyd O'Neil

WILLIAM PART R. GOULD T WILLIAM Salt An Lake Thompson Everett L. Cooley Interview No. Of and Oral A. History 9, O'Neil Project 1994 3, 1994 October 28, 1994 November 18, 1994 February 1, 1995 Marriott Lake 7, 1994 Interviews Library Collections University Salt June Floyd Octeber Eleven Special May By WN No. Utah Uk Interview City, R C. No. No. No. No. GOULD Interview Gregory Interview Interview Interview Interview R. of City, Department Utah Utah Table May 9, Education High School B8 Mentors in June 3, 1994 Utah Railway Choice of Mentors High Relocation from in and October 60 Lake to Salt Lake City 61 67 City School 76 Courtship of Erlyn Johnson. 78 1994 18, San Sl 7L at MIT 87 1994 Training at 43 Life Training November Duty 28, Utah 47 Provo Salt Social Dating of 2k Work 1994 Engineering Utah University 7, Campus of Curriculum Course Theaters 24 Friends Engineering October 18 Co. the and Other School University at Family Naval Contents 1994 Early Naval of at Pedro, Dartmouth California aLaL(o) 8186 February Duty at 1, Boston Resignation Work at 1995 of Naval Shipyard Commission, iL2i5 1947 i Clearfield Employment Negotiating with With Edison 141 Company, Utility Unions 1948 144 165 THE FOLLOWING LAKE CITY FLOYD A. HISTORY GE IS AN ON MAY O'NEIL. in done, you our other have childhood. your I early written thought schooling delving a into took you for FO: What WG: It it day school was city. for Tell us I bit. school was little writing earliest focusing some be worth a piece that what on unusual would written fact about by ORAL you've your it have the COOLEY has thought You and a which AND your that on sister was like Utah. The Bill? Franklin still exists. the the had Those so I yet was six were at a This the cutoff day remember we School Elementary School. went like not my was to the of to old. I was preschool when I and I or to was the over applied the Franklin me late was birthday on the school available situation because I years year, sixth part taken time Provo November. or my class. at schooling Provo, experience in the in southwestern that not entered in can day I person and the institutions late 31st October in school or my School was old years of I other years, youngest It's time no kindergarten. those Grade particular first I five it, the On five. most and L. start SALT THOMPSON about might AT you. school in it, C. the deal we GOULD EVERETT and good R. GREGORY experience little at there. a today about first WILLIAM interviews characteristics your WITH 9, 1994, CONDUCTED BY THIS IS PART OF THE INTERVIEW NO. 1. PROJECT. Bill, INTERVIEW was 1st on of Grade WILLIAM R. GOULD There basement grades NO. 1 was a and that were having name Cardell Provo city taught by I wound up the I weeks. say and class, fact, I I withdrawn I brought it was chance. So in the without believe also a almost that Who WG: A was Mes. the of not kind half second my older teacher by the legend in the of each to be happenstance to school I I my to for don't do you knew In the first with I talk to the would be given knowing first to would be the desk. in another I managed and name. year. people that I two me following remember? her school. that emotions my in home school, in youngest in note under hid even ease the week, from the this to that following day a started decided stuttering day sent and of at overcome succumbing I a brother young, ill they instructor, Caxrdell. oh, and ter] GT: 1994 and a little quite withdrawal one each by affliction part mother and survive of her much school with grades two on was that could my an very charge, threatened I cried from first became just I had remember if was, earlier wanted So that 9, class. was I were later because think that This also. her the taught (who because speech, There been in floor where schools), her Now, was housed. sister, of lower MAY was to crying. [Laugh- I WILLIAM GT: R. GOULD This was the talking WG: Xes E@: Did you WG: Yes, I this for one other time. affection small child all my My mother to go to and I Being the enough be fighter the myself, games, I would there enough, a or this direction. Do you each that what dressed have A 1994 you were at and He other on was other a the in I go the and less remembrances, to was out to be in on to the Curiously about my inclined in and commiser- dressed. Finally, the mother my: permitted of a big playing also had was wasn't class beautifully. Bill, I school pile. at Lord later of guess. n I I was I there were weeks, this went the in we way there happened class, mother I would But blouse, sand person level white instead the whose that for every "Little learned behind at 1like boys isn't affection Well, the recess, happening, somewhat me had of that another older, me immaculate. youngest out was I an it teachers. to dressed guess schools occurs lot I develop most fourr.or @ five, abouks observed go little age, with so to her. toward was overalls. to for school. community. school legend in that semirural atter the career feelings problem pants, protect GT: a warm Fauntleroy" ate became an Through very this who 9, woman? developed had knee MAY person like teachers. was 1 about? difficult I NO. to go to [Laughter] first grade? WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD Yes, there with is small paste, we it name to this desk on a to our the class, might the and what books much in would these interest literature trouble later. with That is, of the numbers in a and blob was I one won't up to quietly the and I so guess I been self- as remember your in these educational mother? in, I the the in know Not so years, he books. later particularly, the too much to come didn't years, to anxious was in was much of your your hadn't school to with but those you Do He course. supportive experience your what subjects permis- but held experience going you very himself the how his grades, primary aspect jar, involved and using was I paste paper white There was the supportive. was father my remember so mostly it was or experience, do experience. being and years and take paper. about of and walked that supportive being things paste, of educational educational of 1994 [Laughter] talk traditional a directed Well, you jar he life. my learning, of was to of 9, receiving alive--who because of all on paste I lot paste jar and name a with big piece be properly writings your still a room, whose model In early was up him father There did things walk as much of could resented as lot the in father a course, of gracefully WG: did of front him--he class GE: We We, the back fellow MAY scissors. in sion 1 one. crayons. and of NO. that mathematics have was and what not. WILLIAM R. I GOULD did the NO. fairly ¥Yesu WG: But university my time was (€2 Yes. As you the Provo found 1994 experience. that ten, years to more in do focused on I was In behind I that knew my those he first the are the he he felt I had did. I was a siblings. six grades, what people principal shaped that experiences the from that than older two my are almost schooling Who what and old was than mind? and you, me through your in interest, nine, tracked helped that in I an responsive out sticks take me he more little did for why those experience eight, ambitions think with 9, classmates. father I MAY well city-trained G 1 you? WG: I the which they thought usually won they six first Things had had with my of For changed. fists HsiteoneMoit along them grades enough about they could with school some unknown I of that, and when words would ithe the or out started not come MEhtincgsMwhtiichitstileks third I fourth to louk: grade my I my win I way That mouth. Also;, I that decided to the school. high junior reason years, following Immediately entered I fight a those in And, win. me. particu- pick to like always would who males larly shy. extremely classmates, my for target easy an was I feel again, was, mind being and speech with problem this having my in out sticks that thing the Well, thinik started to WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. attract some written word. in the that I felt I remember chosen that, two respond things that 1994 in the published was it for it playing aspect devoted looking intellect things, I back was to and he articulate words, school was always think it playing the was the time last because smallest, in to be member team and on me. and do other I and wanted I effect things guess I and he ways. father your to issues those you? are He and the was referring to of the see he that important focused me on it S in felt than that. the some Also, learning intellect. Of Sway » buEin thils that his things important more development and it about father my to "There was, more I as materialized, talking can I well wasnlEarticullating couEseMhcer far long ball not writing attractive other in ball." school of As a never with attitude general by depressing taking remember do I it games, for play to could Again, an a had them addressing for I clearly. and but recall you than or because not able compensated Yes, could section athletics, was this be to like WG: I one the participate. I and badly Do way had in quite youngest, class. chosen GT: I that the to the was the the compensated concerned, one recall newspaper often words I I to 9, reporting. I is MAY attention local school this 1 developing these of my father the other had WILLIAM R. GOULD been an about 1 amateur the with NO. me, time I boxer when I twelve was guess, around. He then nobody on MAY that taught me How old WG: Oh, about GT: So WG: fesHE & Was the one to six-- WG: One to six, seven to FO: In first six years you WG: you There I was can't was tell and not BEO I But Miss have form of Miss you time I he and along decided along stopped rudiments of being boxing pushed and from [Laughter] did that, Bill? high. where nine you and are attended ten there now why, to broken on the twelve. other Miss her I was she think standout was where don't very teachers helpful showed, that having Blaine, well, Cardell NE who but I to mertuntil a I vinsiunder I of have a speaking show she special Shilgh did, the other clear or me. some thighwand remember some guess, generally teacher to and so teachers favorable them. another more Blaine, affection. this remembered memory junior accustomed inh school. after old man, thirteen. district one, IHnEeresty I young years me. he a 1994 remember? interest I in school the when twelve, were the that you was was bothered GT: were it he 9, of question. their It is personalities often in said those six that people years than WILLIAM R. we GOULD realize Could NO. as you them WG: RS as made in thinlcF you thought side. a you I develop, on later the bad life. I the judgement by a of age and Of course, kind of don't the judgement believe to pleased NSt e Bill, observing hear hsinld ing my children, who to trust. 12(0)¢ Um hum. WG: In fact, E@:: Do you that remember you know the side on were think of us and they on do that went on that I bad things that there is as formed a result. adulthood so fwas the character when T people did of knewingt and ultimate to all, toniliyaSintmy: o Sin the of they the your says we're that adults. I I'm particularly Nown' case but " in and includ- answer. =haty sometimes comes at your children the arrogance only among judgement Sineot favorably between that 1994 maturity. did value think correlation person a unfolded I regarded in instance, put years activities that in 9, years? the little favorable For lives dideiintwitt itviely as adult Those were early later them could those were our watched and because their about character? N coulidtands it, into WG: think character doing FO: we MAY judge classmates their 1 age know they of my children, intuitively know bullies? it better or judgmatically than adults. WILLIAM WG: R. Oh, GOULD I bad do 1 indeed. guys, Marquis That's and of tendency FO: NO. teenage It may even I one those bullies at fists. by Queensbury to my one what the rules slate had MAY 9, to with reference my maybe was 1994 the learned In fact, carried too the that far in years. have been carried too far, but didn't it feel good? WG: Oh, GT: I it sure read in younger WG: In my in to his career So a Yes. on The street was and take see a advantage boxing Different type FO: Different necessities WG: Thatlshenrue. Gili Do junior you high of years, progressed least that now well. you were upward? was he taught his fact. who he was fought for reached the a tradition contender, there to of? as or is, boxing match thing, whether recall is in brother That at also well, younger strong thing father rather where GIl:: you a good curious to had your championship. wing. there that fight, father butshendidnlts build WG: memoirs lightweight point G- your [Laughter] brother fact, the did. it I wouldn't go across the to the today. isn't it? excited with some to pass on resentment that WILLIAM WG: R. Oh, GOULD NO. think I I guess days GT s I my it now. In began as it. of higher an engineer. GT: s ‘that WG: As early was I I way been el going was You experience, but did I had I and to thought in terms terms of being in think group to now engineer I as inter- quite something when you Were classify tend we an didn't me, fascinated ¥a had could. I to go. I and guess, I twelve, locomotives around concerned. people of age the as machinery It Eci I you? rilght? the had that education have for was was time the remember can't I do could writing? I that be to I would I what this years? mathematics, which better think out school I I wish later a as Mathematics going I 1994 step. were them. stand to history, was I knew I because to 9, next there life. remember I nine, to my years, school humanities. the to attracted the that middle those in take get math the about literature, in ested well that seven grades as subjects middle the may to feeling of particularly WG: the most little a eager over about what we feeling talked always had and there Were MAY was always ahead was 1 two For get The other more out reason 10 of was that one that my believe really where' specialifability can figured reasons: with lot a I a all that than that my ¥is machinery machine believing and father most with my WILLIAM R. GOULD speech make to NO. 1 impediment my way. talk this as an I school FO: to take for the as was world that learn how and I which my dad and younger go to is (this good I have had. back just a help an did occur started to Sinmthcwe ightheeor today in in toward those the whom I feel I years, aLaL it most of old make were of gquite would their in that then? you s sy gue high are still warmly who have the by bondings junior There speech a with especially to part ninthgtade. of speaking teacher start latter to well s seal ylsurvitved S Frilendshilpsasthat EOhERSEhel the in than child A bit. How friendships? remember [Laughter] isolated, you think I years two our pleading do would faster type very in "Well, took I school old somewhat When years. remained »but wash can I and boy that could I life my of usually is by fErue, Sl said, dad Consequently type." want have get course. typing grade my in live will secretarial I could could remember can I this take me let to most I offered being was and time, seventh to 1994 wouldn't N thatswasnllt It the the friends [Laughter], as over alive I turnedieut first he impediment WG: that typewriting. to and way) believed early talking Bill, in 9, story. mother my her profession cangrecaliliingsuntiorhighiischioeld anxious it SiER a I engineer another that's was Mistakenly, prefessilenalllfp with MAY been school ' people were my fourteen, WILLIAM R. GOULD fifteen high NO. years school I university I married, FO: five Now, my you were that WG: so only dence 1 MAY old, but only dated they dated none in total my girls that question four until I to intellectually girls. the In I girl I 1994 fact, began in at the eventually socially there were fact that dated. the follow-up. alone develop that few. When I met ever be very experience that's forced were 9, might Did in not the you have an indepen- grown without mevie feorwazd experience? ORETNEIMEs el NdHIdERSTRN TN cant talce Ehathand t 2 witEhSiERa | ikt lenbi B Do! WG: I would people with pattern life, almost I ever been I had youngest the held. the first And youngest worked harder in was in not school, than forward most L2 any college into my into of my navy I think people. a professional career because it out not was I was was that classification job uncomfortable but where work and That kind. It friends. my of clutches that years few person this three forward Carrying me. the after of things and or effort group any on depend the that school high in was little in together get homework their carried That me. on depended two and me of effort any or not did course any in success I when instance, for knew, I had because WILLIAM R. GOULD I was NO. 1 not MAY more classifications. in the navy colleagues For and who academically FO: And than WG: it carry that I was reason, starting I every function of West Academy New at contain "I foreclosed appointment to one I had classes as had I did learned people. that isolation. prisen of education), concern the last two the silence. level for lists, I those i8S the would mny In schools the go. years of high school, the service of and the and would It Guard catalogs the for and those if that try then that Coast these get reason schools. For lists study I for to Connecticut, year not" ecould money Annapolis, Every IV economically. catalogs recommended of well most university my economically to my having London, study those as I wasn'!t @ sure ™ Ehat but obtain the their because job engineering in do Ymy acollege Point, exams. competitive as my fEunction. off went year academies: through than aF with not was in 1994 elsewhere, higher did writings primarily and it enething, problem would my a people practicing harder scholastically, days would work dnl lEeor who most in much think butistEhas! sueceessftullys the did I partly deess concern and was @fElcounrsery EEr I and that instance, stood alone referttol WG: @) work than corporations had professionally, to brilliant 9, to never I get go were an happened WILLIAM R. GOULD because my FO: When you in to hang on economically by 9, the 1994 skin of junior school at high that school, was there a gymnasi- time? e SE How did WG: Not very not do you well Yeoulwere The respond well point WG: MAY able entered the FO: E@:: was 1 teeth. um WG: I NO. at my thing junior that that were the boxing I that was activity “Thak . I the about fact and pursued. just pecking most padded, former bit the a group persen. remember school somebody--a what was and I did activities. greupl somewhat a that group al sports? ‘of course dsathe question. high around because noEl of to the that in a tormenter--in settle order was it I would Once to old in gymnasium go in there I the rooms and do would take knock him him know to or newly two there while scores the had at let revised system. [Laughter] EE):- Not WG: That's a bad method of thing that the teaching. I remember most about gymnasi- that um. 12(0)2 WG: you involve besides boxing? Did NelllW e wasnilit bileyellessin yourself Wa £act 0 in individual other sports then, nbut I loved tol mide stillde, and T built up my sperts & any 14 a own WILLIAM R. GOULD bicycle NO. from junior would parts school. e wind MAY spare high ErdeNandi 1 And moamt up when I that didn't roaming I the was, gave know world. oh, me it on early freedom the a 1994 guess great at Not I 9, time, to but bicycle I though. [Laughter] FO: WG: Yes. Those every dark think that Oh do. I earlier FO: Tell WG: No, And was I in am. She such early than I help me. was, that was three I was depend I not to there was not the home. I I really very common years seek out Do you world. career? of it your probably it me, but the a I often I I might nor had at an years older brother years found had was to him real a who defend younger age married older me and with my between us siding bond than in She him any older difference four the be? interaction. only the I in because then, seven expected i85 not is had than as She much siblings heavily siblings. ancestry. younger was my living. unkind with them I to Consequently, of to your acceptable did. close and in the conscious on socially Instead, tormentors. was as left of pattern relationship you still that and your life, was corner love people. believe is children obscure think Did my as consistent I not who lonely and most don't sister was a years. time I is about school are corner than me those that sister somewhat who depended WILLIAM R. on GOULD me, NO. and she any of FO: Does she still WG: No, FO: I So WG: Yesi: FO: How WG: I mystified was quite a find I olld yearsh a period The invelved of MiswashEi in individual thel situatieon FO: Oh. WG: Years this later, because down ik when I was knew in I teol bring bishop, agonized 16 church was seven or my church a to was the to I close. did and eight inactive for years. over Nliedimer population the became" T those In it. the been I've going I time church was how only was I and was Church inactivity came I the time, the where Provo four or and Ehink, ever Nobody I child? a understand ftcenySwhen at fight a the from this for reason are active, was Mormon the as At never like three about the maker. going sister affairs satisfaction of deal il who town a older childhood. could I in remember can than family. family my homogeneous great your church in early this. by together 1979. the you of living years, and of from member only you were active was closer 1994 children. about away members active became other that surviving I 9, live? passed see. MAY and the with she 1 I that had I speech. leaders, Eheldoor became knocked misjudging ashal troubile= back. me I couldn't over every understand child that WILLIAM R. may GOULD have that FO: I had was the only Did you enjoy the that it Even in your WG: Even in my FO: But by then WG: By then it E@: Rather WG: Yes. Jsgcl, And Tl somebody @k L was I'm when in Salt accepting I show would that except the recognized left me. met the fifth girl that only five girls in I and Lake I I my "Well, there's done nothing have I So went back. church. different a said I because repair." to re-activated became I back City. et ©n I where situation situation more Provo. chelE and often fact, representing gt a never has dated I come in not down, In that was the in than difficult Provo it was years? years. nothing have I wrong. very fighting for This shouldn't I why reason no was child, a as church. to me urged She life. was [Laughter], same even mentioned I I situation church. it ejected the nineteen of age the and the in because was I inactive inactive child family intuitively, the But 1994 school? the about of hurt. young church that was FO: dated. a my of than value the feelings as the fact somehow at MAY:9F, their member Well, great 1 active atmosphere WG: NO. if would that have ==, a7/ ran hadn't gone the Provo pbiglhls cEE out of have on Ward and words cl Ellicise WEE and knocked happened, on. being as why, the WILLIAM WG: R. One GOULD other early teens the ready I 1 thing scouting. but NO. that was I think very broke become kept I close up an Eagle in was to just me becoming about Scout. the The And that would have been about 1929°? WG: No, that would have been about 1935. Gl Those have be second year of I can't who--and HgEeping f for that by me the front I would earlier dndebadie they having on person while little by my wal getting apart go and attempt fifth teewerked junior high row to front would recite. grade Vintene 18 to me help hold This my one they was--but learn to recite the class and hand had by also Well, this Ewolcases, but teacher. or of was EhingiiandWthey: Eelthish sellutien why. you there it who how going? tell school remember the yourself I'll Was out figure to keep speech your with keep to to Bill? school, able been and to struggle high easier, would a school high enough it and the you had then a was decided class were years the in you around maneuver were you about What by or situation, teacher when Depression for harder the been going. everything About was I fifteen. would it in Scout, fourteen? GT: Well, time my Eagle about Fourteen, WG: an fell WG : to in interested troop Would it 1994 church very Gl that the 9, succeed. quite didn't I scouting. came troop to MAY in some the wrist been tried was dint good other WILLIAM R. GOULD cases it NO. in entered of She taught my ing what other, shall the She was Now, teaching. later at department and in immensely the may you down went university work who Clark, Jean when that of had kind, and having as myself a became It done. was that saying she guess Scholarship. thiings lady's This professor at started they the librarian stacks. that In horizon 1LE) was She County. as she and far as she of the the in both arranged the I of because branch the precess year second Floyd, her, known have her name whose school high about in was Carbon increased was diEalllsingiEFoSmeNakb o the at colleague a had who time expanded. BYU the when BYU system I and reinforcfirst did. later She Tanner. B. Orea not mine the represent Rhodes the as distant when school. of friend testing S shelisikEaite alhitghEeRbuE the For things and don't I then. crude fairly on was high university, the father my aptitude say, we who the good school the tests I.Q. the to 415094 later, there in doing. been that things year lady very about had in a a taught a me to talk acutely SO, department. was who more about was she English teacher access was there but father a same name Then, son to my was as speech. the a had started even attention school in she was my teachers, She the my high one here MAN focused deficiency I 1 had books English for me just to an available WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. 1 were concerned. into areas where two people these MAY She would, after I should be did a hours, reading, kind of which I great deal to I a science make 9, 1994 guide did. me And schooling a BeEtertexperience. In addition name of Reese Bench, what I thought my teacher at the His by the Y, drawing and' started ‘Eo almost FO: Had WG: Yese FO: Did WG: Mesi E@: SolEhatnk WG: Yes. I had you enjoy was machine good here at that kind. aleng or te by the preparation for There who was University he taught These also later a taught of Utah. mechanical people bringtmetiout about any be. the teacher the Collett, of 'of really it Tican it. physical things in junior high? it? adult my catharsis the shop that I hand life as had well I as 20 found my of what adult being an of area I was engineer. my therapy. fairly a was life. with working that great a and remnant in you? prepare i tihelped home lathe Farrell things me! in would but my in me art, great a helped was shop in had field inha s ways, Later have of sentimental you hands who possibly thelp get this, profession name and primary to a fine fairly WILLIAM E@% R. GOULD Surely. WG: homes do. MeShm part age of model I of my eleven, did tables some fact in flock of my to my from the sort life of all house your to from lathe at build lathe--again group ' Tnsmy; the that what a age would things over of was this was their use of built on that most of lathe activities--I neighborhood build to fyou ' thiist. know thing 1994 working ability even and 9, personality? railroad the us ‘tell a the banquets that adult with of the should didn't that for of buying but isolation with part people locomotives display a about most those identify still write Now the in And S iiNguessE I eleven. instinct still that ERNRiSiS MAY an to Is writings at 1 There's class and NO. their kind my and life. children science In would projects. [chuckle] FO: Seems GT: Are WG: likely. there Bill, im some that additional the one tutelage I Reese, WG: He was deal. school, I think, a fine a in man man superintendent, by a the man I know out that for you there are there. regarding name, person's that and stand the special geometry. solid the because name by the 21 of a me helped he about came in mentioned I was that years? about that had This scheoel write you There's GT: high teachers Mower, name of Rudolph very, Dixon, great very principal and Reese. of the the school had repre- WILLIAM R. GOULD sented NO. to both Provo High could enter pretty large that individual i SN falc i of Utah, And WG: I was when example, individual almost me that-- vie sty NUnd division of more than fifteen or design class, had six men tutoring. It was NeoniliySlbeNse now: here had They upper machine advanced My people. sixteen of class a having engineering Provo at the in remember ever don't I Utah the abeout sav NI I lloneSthitng of powerful. pretty is instruction have where is this and tutors individual by a didn't taught word. their as good as were they School University weren't they at that's Now I 1994 body High that the enter to Provo land. the 9, student learned I that and the from in When statement. School and graduates university the FO: community requirements School taught the any Engineering High MAY School subject the 1 Oxford the almost was that And it. in for system. Al WG: And really this from in rather I lecture. it have than know of done on a the problems group things that individual mentor taught I left the formal of acre a are me education 22 or one, an those But on one basis precious things too. one this, but not than were and that situa- few, a on taught being people in learning education; true focus I where is another one tion to Neouilld Vil st E@©- better it's done those went by all. at where on an after WILLIAM GOULD NO. 1 MAY 9, 1994 e S GT: WG: R. I have very warm feelings about people question. Because who were my mentors. FO: Bill, a I want member to of mentoring ask our you a National under-used Advisory and you Board have and under-valued in so been on, is our current have a mentor system? WG: I think so. I think or an advisor even one, even fifty, I had was don't I man by the name but e E Einagt approach to WS Ha s silien We have am it fact, things, I think here. out he of Off was you the can't of here Mervin record very a impossible several I helpful B. will to to instruct instruct is had possible me. class to at have a class of a school. Hogan who mention one Not only life. Another to back was those a in tape. We will END OF INTERVIEW 23 end man by another here. NO. 1 the name of forty, mentor. There was or a two helpful EhireoughttheMcurri cullum S but S hel DRl get to still must in professor FO: you one, a S is though though I it of interview Smy; Howard because THE LAKE AND FOLLOWING AN INTERVIEW CITY ON JUNE 3, 1994, FLOYD A. O'NEIL. THIS ORAL HISTORY FO: Bill, WG: In 1937. in the PROJECT. what K@) And WG: Provo FO: And WG: They FO: All was WITH did WILLIAM CONDUCTED IS PART INTERVIEW year I you BY OF NO. GOULD GREGORY C. THE EVERETT from high AT SALT THOMPSON L. COOLEY 2. graduate seventeen R. years old, the school? youngest person class. that was High were from Provo? School. your parents still living in Provo at that time? were. And right. at the WG: Bhat FO: Which WG: The FO: I s txruel one? Utah Railway. right. is Rio Grande, FO: Did you WG: Many go times, years It Carbon to owning whefi the with and it. of portions Denver often? County starting track joint a used railway each to often? very County him taken have would Railway Utah the Now, see. This railroad the for working was father your time? Carbon WG: IS T WA ©ld, clooue ©@ @ilele EEm old. continue FO: Did that WG: Yes it the university did, and I even made when several also. 24 you were trips in there high school? after I was at WILLIAM E@& R. Is GOULD that The 2 right? Route, WG: NO. Utah Now FO: Yes, GT: Do the Railway, operating offices JUNE was center were here headquarters at at Salt 1994 Coal of the Utah and the corporate Martin. was in 3, Martin Lake City. right. you recall where they were located in Salt Lake City, 1223 110 WG: I think they were in the Judge Building, if I'm not mistaken. E@ Did WG: Yes, the of the coal was, at deep into the WG: Deep in GT: And implied you've WG: for going No, he Was st to made because Depression. Depression. the positions. when the that he MsEaEtineg, bettered enabled himself him, school, high from graduated you to contrast in Grande Rio excite- Railway. Utah the time the This GIE: on haulage the at trains fast the ment the missed he think I on engineer an been formerly had Grande, Rio and Denver he since although job? that like father your the Rio Depression the SNlEs wasin1 the Grande, Rio 917, on I the Depression, 25 that fortuitous was It immensely during change Grande? earlier. left of change the for cause the a had father your that Railway was ~or 1 1916. He Utah the ‘believe, seniority to be did, he able list to which hold a WILLIAM (EHES R. GOULD job, where if been laid off. So by the twenty WG: NO. time to made such that in very easy. he you In on the Rio graduated years sure the they could the stayed twenty-one This and JUNE he Yes. slow 2 that winter the in the from high with Utah? traffic time pay go to Carbon helpers in order part then very the the main main much. County to a So to work improve the he 1994 would have school, on holding summertime, didn't Grande 3, he had railway was line line job jobs with his the mine was were seniority runs families and economic situation. G WG: That's 1in County came Yes, was was. oh, not Because the that best friend time he with him, Eoolsl mMENEoNEarbon would for WG: Yes. GT: Did WG : Well, they getting kind of I of best. have Obviously your experience in Carbon from? it GT: where go a speech Children an had. my impediment are affliction, For down that and reason, would go more at a time, and was the down who the summer to live that's what tCounty.. ride down with ever raise cain with him to people during I would ready childhood father or you curiously my to there, or week unkind my I enough, leave and 26 him having remember the one in engines. the you along? night superintendent we was were going WILLIAM R. to GOULD ride said, the I and out built use an I window have at this as a things standing that with I've of in "Tell In other wood, the So the and caboose Bill, I hope words, they the rules. railroad their I 1994 window all the for kind. had would retirement something in superintendent. picked becoming ride infraction, out that the said, centerpiece of out you (Laughter) locomotives about leaned 3, up in your involved in the writings model where building early. that WG: the think talk just superintendent trip." informal you dad rather the and don't My would them banquets JUNE the model often GE: I enjoys looked 2 engine. "Dick, tonight," he NO. There is one that makes GT: Yes, it FO: Badltly piece that to reference entitled "We Buy a Lathe" and it. does. SSasslcid » xraisedwidn) you did County, Carbon is Prove, Utah, place that find when you went to some exotic in For regard? WG: Oh, town head Martin end. Alaska, were they that comment into reputation. a with one He Helper day made is County, Carbon in Helper, thing, exciting quite it found I and I some ways. had been something my remember down coming they a comment the wildest 257 in had a through boomer about, town father in next the brakeman to west. of making the one a the tunnel on the Fairbanks, Allegedly WILLIAM R. the GOULD night don't NO. 2 JUNE marshall know there whether they 2ddi'ttentethat,» they a it They WG: There was which they to into the back kind. Helper Those things those years; part was As dances. street a little Provo, to compared a of more I persuasion. operating there. There were I Helper in but sure, I'm think openly. the business and being an by exciting 28 exist I on of trying to father one and walked saw these green them and place. And these that he them." there shot understand evil, be to My store. or to you want I'm joint. back the in there business gambling surprised craps in were consider I be you and he there a I "Bill, want tables of name which things, Cassidy years, of operated said, night in known. place one the remember but Prohibition more little a better were GT: I think I and religious in and everywhere, surfaced not, hold there down were that bootleggers bootleggers gun. Buteh town was there and the during remember and street nationality in his or Helper. at once population heterogeneous both fide Gate, interesting an those watched I boy in eorrectly, Castle in the off rope would bona recall (jail) quite was Helper all notches 1994 color. the to added T office slammer the in was nine were 1 £ mine the up held had 3, things I me don't back covered of that WILLIAM GRS WG: R. GOULD Were you find friends Yes, probably there, were JUNE in and Helper a so than children, who in more with the friendly there? Provo. There whom to I became me history of 3, manner? setting in friendly knew a congenial more probably 1994 Did were you people acquainted than the this speech ones I who left in impediment had. I that 2 received even Provo, K@ NO. Helper has changed undoubtedly 1930s, its noticed. the largest character In those single a great years, minority deal if as you've you're would talking have been the Italians. true. is WG: That EOL And you WG: Yes, I fond and applied impediment speech overcoming WG: I had class in Now Interesting. made in I could I was I wrote a short done was it playing when "wop" of in tender kind very become fact, appellation story was that I memory, else. anything than more think, but them, to them; stories, the and I In people. short writing Italians about for affinity Italian the of around FO: an developed of that I and met few a quite were There did. families? those of number a met high your pronounced as still years school oOr was your Yyou were it? some high progress school. It but was 2/9 I did either not recite because of openly the in speech WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. impediment my Ehink and Now time that had been were of Utah, there about the on was twelve learn. No out I thing didn't choice of Many school went to that dated high in kind, four I girls my social school. Univer- the at started you school college. My I that was should I to have was do speak, and the with il is most what that felt profession a pick I can speech my of I life my including and him with riding conscious this in INthinlelthat machines to me people, I was of enamored the through all thatMareal nevertheless, entertained fascinated been most knowledge, instilled was a developed my to that was One had even had I than machines I I that think I old, father that years and guess. or learning. my I family, my high the of years in one from But impediment. I people occurrences; reasons, specialiMapiilityisin# more I of 1994 accentuated most things school, school I from engineers. the when good locomotives, HadWal get nil extend machinery high two to desire and Where spasmodic high attending of left impediment shy. date just were graduated idea speech 3, why? time to desire I left you Well, to almost when the extremely started the sity had was by skills WG: I school JUNE because shyness. high FO: or 2 where dictated my profession. of my encouraged in teachers me to write 30 grade because school I did and win in a high story WILLIAM R. GOULD contest. could write felt to a me, prepared reported me, this to the of the the historic you solid written word because the Depression put in reason who solid at I on the entered the on thought education I the name his was Yes, that E@®: Another WG: Absolutely. E@: They keep showing WG: Yes, they do. FO: And did he do it don't well? 2l they staff University of Utah. was who Reese. they? (Chuckle) school school, I University that when so the the and school Welshman. up high high high in Eor requirement the the available geometry, teacher Rudolph process, Utah. found of table. engineering ‘of of I wanted the was geometry? WG: that beans that principal school remember the entrance faculty especially engineering to there. the I idea University entrance speak, this electrical Ehes to rejected would and ability 1994 I engineering for the an 3, But through me one in that \Utah, ' ‘wasi hadn't Do an sought have well. gone where I not child mechanical dof tutor FO: having in caused a profession reason I did pertaining being place sEate I reasonably that Now, to JUNE anything have only 2 Although studying I NO. could of coached to go to That is Utah. you in WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD Well, his "Well, have learn table 2 we to not it and because JUNE comment I will NO. me at taken I never When you He through had time solid together." poured the began geometry and I texts, trouble we with 1994 it was, myself, sat and 3, down but across apparently it in we my the he did, subsequent studies. FO: I see. the fall WG: That FO: And WG: es FO: Because of is it the the WG: That the FO: Did student Depression at the Administration is university, that would be in body was 4,200 people. big. population Youth the 19372 right, was entered funding had university come and because of it expanded the National money. true. you receive National Youth Administration money and help? WG: No, I the railroad on and that I didn't did job Oh, is a have to that The summer prior a section hand, and for of expenses as to had relocated FO: not. pay little a left board Salt right? all Lake That my over. and City was 312 entering, I room about I lived I had made fortuitous. time on money first year, home situation. the job enough the at a and My I so parents entered. I WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. 2 Or at least the household WG: Carbon ence GT: Did WG: My County between they think I wanted was an but to been I see. you WG: I until was scared tutorage, ments who City I as had was playing catch the were young in stay te there. In faet , | L she Lake City. I didn't This have at T than live wanted that is where the she dormitory Dartmouth. University because, able to and in I boy class life and because the ball little school differ- City), it entering far a my in Lake rather in meet in of Utah, did in all a years during 318 Students in of two fears but that was literally freshman the me, situation. the special concerned. new I my require- for the of entrance ahead mathematics experience. afleoat the regimen away had spite were mathematics being through little experience prerequisites school. my working fears? engineering shy Salt live later only up to years death, as taken schools some any to far child. about with Salt a was 1994 Cilyas in her have to father 3, you? live for didn't as enter to my there Lake dormitory reared me that Salt badly back Tell With accommodate come experience FO: and the I did. felt excuse have home, had to wanted to excuse was Provo move mother at it JUNE Salt and years that I the I was in the go with was quite case fought year. Lake for all my WILLIAM GT: R. Is GOULD that I you took JUNE What came classes in, the engineering engineering thinking took 2 right? quarter WG: NO. first be chemistry. We which engineers. I take had a started took Curiously you 1994 the first term? drawing. orientation to did 3, class to prepare freshman enough, I called our English led my and class I in chemistry. GT: And WG: A by man his knew the name son at with analytic of , Wagain, FO: Did No, ROTC the that WG: until not that I Salt Lake Oh, as did work who I see. the last two years, went with the upper a freshman couldn't for drafting drawings FO: because me '‘physiecal tuition a was did. I which was war it that felt I and pay to help Program out because courses, program, ROTC the take started licusof ‘ins Alse, Europe in the destroyed almost it took I of things and variety? stipend did to hedge good which military the threaten to engineering, prepardtien. took I there. and geometry mys education, starting for required mathematics was I when Tech Cal later I Bonner. E. James Bonner, of recall? you do Bill, that, of professor the was who together Do you him for at with afford a 34 to get his small full-time in times odd remember a ROTC. a name? order building small a was there division was him then The only contractor in draftsman. to get enough permit. I WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD RSdeniie NO. JUNE N caniiticalllNht S telmind Ehinkpehabed GT: 2 B0 T dwelki oniit a ‘rilght little Yat bits Ehilsl T 3, 1994 mements ‘would I pull " it memory. out of Who taught you English that first go around, Bill, do you remember? WG: I It second don't theme she belong in GT: the So she WG: I I'm not class. chronology, FO: Tell me, attitude school you beans not to words That quarter or on paper, as aside, Mulder--U. Bill was know, you just know, You it, enjoyed I that say arranging certain. easiest English. Professor whom and had, the quarter Eirst class. think English, of I'm But be answer put others the that enjoyed I but certain, professor should to like would I "You said, same the her gave have English her enjoyed and you probably would I always have I because U. and right, dis This school, Ehat din was had you that class and talent suspeet "I ebviousily:, class that else, same the saw after my (Chuckle) table. on I I writing." everyone gave I that After engineering the in turned Horst. up me called creative studying of name the by lady a was fondness. with remember I something is that indeed, do that in of same be about the right two here, what was your Now, when you're in high would too. after toward a faculty? the develop an attitude 35 and a posture toward the WILLIAM R. GOULD faculty. posture NO. I 2 want toward JUNE you the to give faculty, me that your first attitude 3, 1994 and that impressions at the university. WG: Well, I let's had a great English, the start naturally, oD quiz at but that a which hel impression fine But an age to Going remember lady who you be was married GE through There a engineer. civil have is a feminine was T he of the only the in the top had a was remember a that very fine, I was It It it. taught who trying a was they but James, son, to Bonner's ot llifel thatr sisitheyiseparateds She knew that me. Eirst lady I'm Dr. Ehat eof mathematics, teacher helped. kind that I In impres- not thought to wrote. "headh perseonally. in she and ENsurvived I the course. have teaching favorable taught I mentioned. was what iwas also and you to helpful ball catchup him the of name very He who very Isthink list, didSnetrremaintmarricd She a quiz know, the later liked just impressionable. down the she Eaught of you lady had time. favorable at hwhe so-called eourses man. I which this because Beonner) department for department EN lecture English, fondness chemistry sTHen with don't I know was playing I deserved that but year; first and quarter' I help. by was person a the name little in 36 of who Lattimer unique engineering. in those She was years taught a to the WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. 2 JUNE engineering drawing remember two or drawing and she because of three the which and times artistic the extremely came if I around was te interface that alise to look an crept the at I my engineer out. consider between 1994 helpful. really indications mightSwant' was was she wondered suggestedsthat o ture, class 3, She architee= engineering and art. and I class, she was helped me immensely, distance me helped to go a lot. I respected I was FO: Did WG: Only that glad one, people year that and maybe the name that and sophomore to of with difficulties have you taught the Frank just was when I think she years and Nevertheless, she was that faculty and competent were there. was I they that thought I them, time. toward attitude General scheduled light ability. speaking in a had still I and extra on just it doing not was This her. to went also speech my with help for people several to went I department. speech the of Webster, Mary times, of number a thanked and acknowledged publicly have I whom lady a met I that time that at also was It contribution. large a made think I who people fine were these speaking, Generally I temporary. Gibson, to school. and 317, them? I calculus. took calculus entire of any engineers One the of other was think it There were those in them was was a a man my two days, man by by the WILLIAM R. GOULD naMENOE NO. Gibson, School relative was a of of of was take in in else. the but somehow he by We was that on my used and to to me That of he 1994 call him me. into he also a may be family would be guy, by of would the been of figment There Smith that out a we have go a of times take know of cognizance loveable would would a take three even dean grandfather. was It the something "Steamboat" didn't could my or (Gibson) that was didn't Smith irritate time married Two when he He had side. he at sister "Steamboat" Maybe me. a class would seemed he family when imagination. embarrass Smith. Sciences. that the calculus somewhere it and mine relatives way, S. think, established his but I Arts schism the S. 3, Smith. Frank that JUNE SamiSmith, "Steamboat" the 2 I class just my existed, his way to my imagina- having noticed il I I and GT: that treated I to us setting of Talk go woen't a in a over minute, the the from was in at the soldiers, horse about I wrote how you that document it Right minded broad or enthusiastic all at transfer to wanted department. science military the who colonel, the with except anything remember don't I that than Other the in charge of when end, was not thing. But he my journal here. Bill, university 318 about in that first saw the year. social Did you WILLIAM R. GOULD partake in NO. 2 that which was available to you? JUNE 3, 1994 Did you have time? WG: Well, time life. Bat respect. was T'll My nil; non slit of premium tell you social a lectual appeal the this was always theatrical I university. the had that intel- an one attended I think of sort that on strong my narrow the every events in have I But, for gender from it at I bag female view never was fighting mixed attended I special I but game, football a with approach. or of presented the of lot attended kind was (Chuckle) and was that I almost cell. theater, performance it's could I menastie '‘a because interaction existent. the loved at thing. was It those years EQ: Those were WG: Well, I opera first that a on here up had on carried number really of ever through things strange a was what I For them. enjoyed in years good do would I and and like summer's into It 819 see to a developed that I remember can I night later that, wonderful. here? theater instance, seen. in again. it the me myself university the at to opened avail to hard opportunity intellectual every with tried I area. intellectual the in had world new a though as almost life. I cannot thought say too the Aida, taste There coming for me were just were just many good WILLIAM R. GOULD things Bill, a most my experience world about your Well, the culty I in staying with a I browse on the it was paper look next to belew university that it was is a I a a collection would life never 40 of sell have I remember my has general in I was world the when treat a was had I as here came forward. In books. many of there sold, person books." as a used I years, those books of the was a litho- reading a book almost book true !A Carlisle, frem just bookstores the into Renaissance quetatien diffi- others. it my cover the most teacher, but though and the also I as the at bookstore showing imprint resolve and university the that go from sticks reasons some with was would I year was But faculty, leap coming remember the for and It giant a most most. forward, leaps you mathematics my think I was around end graph and 1994 thought first do the remember on. remember can to that 3, university? and Webster later of it freshman the remember I the What afloat, Mary opening. series at engineering them met suddenly a I particularly world, helped, the met I what association been because process. year at who I that that people when larger thing That's yet a freshman had recited. not here experiences, to enormously the JUNE people's smaller out WG: about 2 outstanding. just GT: NO. any made of a the WILLIAM R. GOULD texts that that GT: WG: At NO. I loomed the 2 used same community te experience and Yes, were there the in tion system well as which weekly pass whole who e pick thakE if you pick Then I still had would NN out would to of that it and was public cars I a transportaoperating the trolley years you could ride these car a buy you pass this have would I as let which $1.25, a used larger use time writing this, in me that system. try a spare in had, which wasn't lines and become I stories and my would suggest to me and' would character surmise 41 go who what halllucimate, and then Uil SN d o RS E SN oniS be might character M-y I short theltrolley S ey aRalb cu some your city. dabbling what and substantially bicycle trolley pass. afcharaecterion on had those in what was a frequently now, you a because it like the things impressions had something I 1994 coin? city Also, in transportation would the encouraged will, i-c EoE I out with father, few. that acquainted I of is Any the on and were university, which of week go Also, a would I much, very side we for would I and and the Provo. swim. remember I a than to to Lake, quite buses. system. ride Salt that Those 3, perceptions. came streets pond curriculum. my you larger my in time moved ride in large family to JUNE in sit the seat fellow was a his life would try e and passenger. be like. I WILLIAM R. GOULD Then I NO. would individual from GT: the One of of trying areas was earlier youth, Provo. I missed that to of ber. lived her, had psychology and was it that go would This was done it And did my up name the taken doing a out quite a of did never for physical three fine in this on seek some type Did you? Was is, of the a remember side about in do, to was tennis for week me that I I rememand degree in He he play I he played before. because as me, and in speech. he that and in West help coordination a I 8th to me student as program trying my However, graduate Parry, in: behind undergraduate times thing boxing Bill played had or two (Chuckle) focused outlet. graduate trying good diversion we I had his were was that a partners an west Webster I around math. little here. she the a was he me. by. boxing that with tennis 1994 mentioned that deme one on also in setting had things the Mary year that down He and left by up survive Webster, South. of I have Mary was 3, that? I because for One of It story haven't of help it. and didn't working 2nd kind the catch first this part part to you the outlet mentioned GT: in exercise. that around riding He fabricate tedium the bicycle and an people That home as physical WG: go JUNE just experience most 2 felt and tennis. had never your life? before. you continue to play 42 tennis throughout I WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD Qhgwlater girl I NO. 2 JUNE enwidn courted Aifey and T did later not; primarily married could 3, 1994 because beat me in the tennis. (Laughter) G She was a student WG: He didn't didn't, third school with about Lake Salt with we the her, for and played I played the third or fourth and she graduate her. this the came and second later she date or in was tennis. my quite (Laughter) we went out to ability my by impressed quite was the about tennis way Sisnot were 25,000 buses, and the quality, nurturing with one, automobiles, in of Did¥yeou assuredly. I've but with our 27,000 a sort streng Hit censilder We commuter coming of to the everyday, that and become remote. little bicycles mentoring istrengr as out, It's a being of a being not in. students the reach to you, this like campus us mind hard, of reputation the had accused we're that large try thing, wyou when here? most went out teacher of her that I way to 43 as even had, try the to referred teachers several with mathematics and had ready remember nurturing--bringing of place had could university the Bill, Oh, I you Maybe swim. to WG: I player. get experience, However, so quite that disgusted BE: tennis because date Great superb this to a freshman. The most kind was lady help I relationship me because she WILLIAM R. GOULD knew that her, "Do a NO. I I was think, was in my the out of ing situation W. division same way upper ask "You fight. have The Bill rela- Parry, I subjects for my mentioned to talk to life. me We who a as a a fine mentor. that Mervin not man taught when Hogan. only the me in man and Also, by were He went engineer- the upper was really there B. here I were profession, about had very work, name of engineering very friendly. T George Carter, if pronouncing the thing. We had a Professor Bugoslauski, Eha e Eilghtssnshydrauilbiics SR relationship, of name later became succeeded dean these when I people dean a the of entered. did for School of name of the by man electrical taught who Taylor I great have me. 44 I am and student There emerged. this where I'm rememberlve ny S fondiiySesxtna normal the just beyond spent time he 1994 would said, and division have him me Webster I subjects; picture Mary basis Hassell, She I 3, mentor. the but remember helped engineering form can chance?" she with on, people. Howard had a to his and of into several would I I fighting that Later starting a chance," that getting JUNE struggling. have fighting tionship 2 was a the by man and engineering Engineering. Ketchum fond teacher who memories hard-pressed to think I the was of what find a WILLIAM R. GOULD negative when I a to the I think short WG: No, S later was a discipline today. say FO: Do WG: No. But I now, but go architecture in various from I have don't time frame known then that think I as word. was the used, okay. Not many of don't may in other two things too, you least at sthe have the have a in been school any open some that firsthand I collars. don't think knowledge the In tie. and shirt of There exists it definitely. you at the of crities Tech" you the of received had were us gave number a frame. We navy They I in sample, "Trolley dressed all there years time the IElyou | licokiatiithenipileturesy; sycarsae were students that with to the join things. or one was cally EoR the people training 1994 school? there but it what was to cars drove in by from 3, random country. cannot I a naval in exempt the of Utah. of selected the was of kind selected favorable Tech" "Trolley in was university, car street here. school program I least report only to had and of experience around knowledge personal I because at university, FO: when schools MIT negative proven navy University can going was tests, at a graduate The placement a was post MIT courses or sample, engineering the JUNE this 1942. late 2 comment faculty or NO. that discipline No. 45 exists in many schools? to WILLIAM GT 2 WG: R. GOULD NO. (Laughing) With of At the the 2 JUNE the I 1994 academies. experience world 3, I've don't had think with it several is and in maybe other it parts should not be. FO: BuENs sl WG: Welilses RadNE ENceulids Clemenceau one year one he bep who old son should FO: made Yes. was WG: to the don't, I'm I know this) the BEOF Does that WG: No, South walked I WG: Oh see, ary yes, each eut. But, report that his twenty- at twenty- and said, forty-one along "Well he that should line. wasH be Maybe it ultra students mold. generation tuition, do puts you own stamp. What But somewhere. record with year £freshman my started I its recall? of matter a it's that rule, and was over. That your pay I walked. be back and To see. oh yes, spending on was there a memory tells me. too? 10th on down my what is left $20.00 about had still transportation lived if would I I slide year when FO: a and I at it patid S forrmytuit lonitortthreeNquant exsandSmy: SIS0 books the the radical and sure I a something of isorted receiving be and cost dhavenlt was fit Well, I was conservative," are simaybeiit ¥ shouild. East near South 10th where there, 10th and forth. save money! my part the There that 46 car nickel was very first fare. little year. discretion- I WILLIAM GT: R. GOULD Bill, NO. talk to at some talked supportive WG: Yes, she was for My just related to my Efdae WG: Oh, EO: Yes. Was here in you Yes, it your to father mother your Salt was she a piece and I your father, the and mother, was you've your mother university? the driving was very on but helpful. my comment force, ethnic about she Curiously origins that. I as don't yet. mother's Lake? family there were But third and going about 1994 family, Did her was family her for extended family, instance, too, live here so that you many relatives on both sides and were your surround- relatives? Lake. when about wrote have bit 3, do? father's by little father I FO: a you was. you JUNE length supporting think WG: us enough, ed 2 of the as there four not children, family such was lived there a closeness for first children the in was Salt not here two Lake. the I was closeness me, I born in in the was were in Salt the born Provo, extended family. BEO: iNseelifor WG: Yes. E@E Did WG: I you think ther who you. have there were relatives were who were relatives attending here. 47 of going a to sister the of university? my grandfa- WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. FO: That would WG: Yes, a were attending who no, were there see. In Yes, WG: How not Many them WG: of that I 1994 I had remember student progeny that there body associated at was that with, and a think Robert time. But, accepted me-- friendship the patterns, engineering exclusively the as highly became you develop students? there, engineering friends did because had little school. became successful successful I successful as engineers? yourself. practicing engineering. I thinking-- in addition If there say, number a know don't or nationally who entered leaders of injustice {clnlalinl< not I'm were, them of of practicing solid being to any corporate corporations. because there Now, may (GBS 48 engineers? I and world I have started I As engineers, prominence to rose internationally, the entrepreneurship practicing good who them. of aware were of level a to rose that any there Were I 3, none. those Perhaps grandfather the your of JUNE relative. knew, outside many am GT: I almost contact FO: in among and my here. was whom I distant of relatives friends WG: a brother Gould E@ s be 2 to don't been know don't become want some to to but either anyone prominent do them an EhaENINcaniiE WILLIAM G R. Were at WG: GOULD there the Most I NO. time of I that were JUNE that that them guess them any 2 stuck you out were thought the brilliant in your moving were answers in mind as 3, 1994 exceptional along? better endowed than question. Yes, quite engineering, but I I was. So few of think of a can't them. GT: What did years, WG: I you Bill, in fretted and the worst job was pick up a the fall I was parents to subsequent GT: do And your between that for market odd and job. The I ever encountered. jobs, and largely summers, but sophomore the was means to the That true of school on education. it summer when dependent my had a that continue family freshman summer? looked few your in keep 1938 All was I did started largess was not in of my true of 1938. you going for that saecrifice for year? WG: Barcllyiitliwas will I which alt be sacrd filceMiFormtthem. of some you are themselves deprive other caused It grateful. etermally A order in things them to for me Eeolgo.: GT: You mentioned was there in WG: the No, mind of my of aspiration older there that was the college third child indicated in in the any family, interest two? not younger and not I'm sister. 49 The sure two that older there was children in the didn't WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. finish high beyond that. My the LDS attended for to that he WG: WelsIsESTaN hiinle dismayed and too not nearly have Business some as Not G- So WG: Yes. GT: Did to high did quite you the see somewhat of the had go to 1994 aspirations high that only school was one and primarily who had the professional or your two your at were of bethl. WIS he the of the did, the or thimnlc in Bhel use \was felt those population to did times? probably aspirations father and norm mind that days; as you the vernacu- hellchiliidMthat hadisthe desire. much older college, going How off? marching sister? younger years. grade levels? at a time influence her going of influence having LDS those my father's also Yehipseontt they that but percentage drive university, school any either your what the three least at for in a think than you were WG: see you the amiiE EllaMbi i e £ high inclination, Did was but dismay ifamEwa sl tolbetihiis GT: I have finished College, college people as I sister disappointed, many now. didn't 3, gain. that not they younger to cause accept and reasons. go intellectual Did JUNE school vocational desire Gil's 2 on appointed 50 to she when her and time? the was the a junior fact that in she WILLIAM WG: R. It GOULD NO. have an did that she was it was that sophomore engineering experience WG: types Well, that the GT: Tell WG: Well, on back it taking tactical "go, no calculus well in you that that professors In fact because and two older I to it, focus and focused the the whole for you. Any for that year out stick on above took physics, or rest the stand experiences? the and far on a man by I also taking I by in as I would give the other could and Sl but my should have I didn't done a the be to attention prime subjects. was made had I going was well and sophomore a looking quite was I of kind was calculus, calculus Since Bill. teaching, and became time hurdle, as offended never was physics I'm by He him. enjoyed as approach get think taught Tugman, Professor about thoroughly I was it and Tugman. Orin his was Physics on. I which calculus, took I that I that year the decision. and 1994 life the beginning experiences physics go" are more By impressed. life later whereas bit of in one. later her a had I brusque year little a me in becomes or of oriented influence, commenting name her entering was of record into not year the favorable if Any those also over a major, remembrances you? and 3, were. never your for carried intellectually children In JUNE influence influence think GT: 2 do to as because WILLIAM I R. GOULD think less, I I NO. have 2 JUNE some enjoyed natural physics ability and I'm there. pleased But to 3, 1994 neverthe- have it in my which he history. G Tugman's expertise graduated, Purdue. I field from WG: I was I do as that him? Did sense I remember I had that time far as that? would know his was B itiowas the Huygens (if theory The approach it et Blin I was little a that roSpee of aware not he what by evident But think I courses his of is concerned, is in but was ether. clearly specialty." the light. was it that big physics this called substance the took that to transmission was from background, or clearly of 1907 it time. the What of theory or you IntEredicedBiEopithi sisSo) "Yes, say, It I but e sy taught. it's when introduced disciplines modern could as hypothetical a WaSE right) in Optics show very been it 1904 specialty his this, ditEfferently, about graduate I a know that WG: it was optics Purdue. Did get you of about from that through GT: came time. area in aware light, at the recall, he pronouncing I'm in not first M I think at was had called lecture the lab situation physics, for have you did students? graduate "quiz series courses." three the in students In times 52 those a lab days week, and the some of pattern interspersed the so was a with a WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. 2 quiz session and then the in I did lab enjoy In of myself, a man me group afternoon. was time Rhodes and two I a did times take first teacher for the course it graduate a 1994 week, those and labs and who was with the he Well, I examination was several talking I can about me should introduced student. and student acquainted Scholarship. graduate about one who school of maybe to that standing Scholar was, the high was smaller there at subject a 3, them. fact teaching JUNE me correct to to it. be a years older remember him the eventual This Rhodes than I talking examina- e That widened was the the Oxford stands door first system out of time of Yes, several people were intellectual GT: In WG: s Yie of the i physics hach remember, became her in my vein, hsmbasiia I experience. the and from it whom was from I them, learned again, I think nature this but other it that of the graduate there were things that value. you did to wife also took tell a and 53 The solid from him. science fortunately, time? any at Parmley jokes. physics needed requirement, have st ructortoncel tauiiziin loved She because understood physics from he physics. graduation that learned here vividly, intellectual teaching, student. I rather FASET ortwiicel. who girl I was course the later tutoring for her quarters WILLIAM (EHER R. GOULD that she the ones NO. JUNE elected to take in which principles and other some at notes her interpret As I she the were taking his hand at this place. The over time a Parmley and 1920s, years! forty for So role. you have English No, English I would in had that to help class. on the campus about was years--by becoming have that an old stood out interviews, from it the a in even: after continued and Talk known. the did year, sophomore that about the in here area physics the feature hear you and Parmley recruited main background, outstanding training, a play tol that classes other you of history the in continue to classes? was almost the curriculum, The physics years. was well he's try have physics he academic He Tugman. about lot in and industry in both to still her time an with comes and institution the were in hear I as critical a at comes Tugman her people two physics Parmley. and Tugman are so 1994 I you--fourteen class, least at think, been time you for 3, motor-generator phenomenon. hearing had in with wrote was time I dealt I Parmley by courses electrical that what years those they home recall, thirteen WG: 2 was Calculus all have over to I but refer do a strong 54 the the end of to the record know strong the was by that solid solid it freshman to reconstruct included subject subject year. physics. through those through those WILLIAM R. GOULD quarters, the NO. and first that machine I In the to curriculum I'm the that I inNit, would to sophomore it, my year, with foundry I but me direct to had the to refer to have the stood they I had from here, because when we blanks. being of task the Was recall? your in else anything So and experiences major the where mind, your in out sticks what in a easier? finish was another was I they which remember, after would the you I that disappeared years were. although it, I knew grade but the point from upward. 55 attention that "Eithimk that I average was the lowest on it was all then star wouldn't I them. successfulintboth'ef and iwasiidete rmimed (i fthisycalienlus sEor calculus of because devote [ amd for making combined them had I obviously Swas)except Mol that in becoming student WG: £ill year sophomore was later my exposures major courses, shop quarters, I that think that's because the pattern shortly interested mostly 1994 science year subjects those I force. work military sophomore of that remaining in the quarter, think standing good take some one grateful always in to curriculum engineering to 3, requirement. was me Now, shop. forge GTE- it shop and practice. in continued education think quarter, was JUNE introduced were a I physical I 2 had in to my moving WILLIAM R. The GOULD only more was a GT: I was that there time, the stage. think WG: We G Yes. I to won't. That were just Did ellubs), freshman performing a year later know put that was I an my play As I In that ‘play didn't met her and was some important sophowas mentioned I I 1994 that that what into in 3, ‘there know at eventual- looking relevance event. I at on but I (Laughter) footnoted. you *Ehe a out Misbehaves. didn't starting I was sticks *such®things . was about her. that Bishop who but married was know fleokinen"all ly I The freshman that JUNE that called, Exiedite 2 thing year given NO. get involved ‘engineering in that year clubs;Yeor ‘any with ©f any those of the ‘typesof activities? WG: From was the the Club, that sophomore and I was Society member that of that I members What less mean did of the you was member of a of the all I year than was eligible, and I member the Engineers' a between my was among for the then? 56 I think section Engineers. life; hundred, of student Mechanical society do first I society centennial the I year, a American In Gl - time am I still of were made the stayed a a member. few, comparatively that it by honorary life. sophomore and junior years WILLIAM WG: I R. did 4th GOULD NO. get job. (Chuckle) just across a South, 2 JUNE Building, called principal function lots up FO: Were WG: No, I but the person The of being it's used who car would wash them in doing that. It meant more to employed than it summer job. County and the and cars, job for the year? it was supplemented and work my whe thel i contractors for wEndildis wiiEh & Ehe s work was money enough continuing was Garage, on itapreduced:. save to able you the all the a of for the was north 1994 located cars I self-respect inceme Ehel ditelpfeor wash I worked it but garage Service Street. and of area the in to a street deliver load was Standard Main much very wasn't the was cars, peak of times down the up pick me and the There 3, " meeded drawings. FO: I see. WG: I was with some I and buck the for help I folks, my was way. that continued from I and skillful more little a able was together that, By bang more getting to survive again. entered FO: So you WG: In February of quarters was recognize for other a B.S. the 1942. Now that the credit of the degree was parts the reason the military the quarter 57 and I that engineering school, 183 1937, in university graduation hours. In two took school science in? graduated extra would not In most work. requirement the school for of WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. engineering the it the something full that For 1941 when class remember, easily I had equal degree in to other Ehici=ts S veryin middle of 256 the almost I had was I When I the parts of that took from geraMEEEle of the class be the with end graduated, which would requirement the also graduated of hours, who part would quarter RPN to which 1942. 1994 proscribed February, twice year almost 3, EophofMEhait EERE university, Eere St ing the on engineer was He load amount although entered quarter you chiahet v, & an reason, in if would years. 1942 winter which program four I of Then, over military extra. the 206. credits in the JUNE was graduating of FO: it military was 2 as have for a of I been masters university. Wit way, yeonrNegraduat tont did they hold a dntthe ceremony or not? WG: No. It the graduation navy my was as a wife, GT: time, time. both had Looking girl the accelerated same I She I was automatically immediately and who last her was was officer, the of and because naval or afternoon had war I went became test program week so on my of she also absent from those years, any Eoadd toft those swept could the up active wife the excused on from by the duty. the winter Now Friday quarter, graduate graduation at the but we diplomas. back over yeoumweulidMcarc 58 overview you 've comments 'madefSor that any: WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. observations WG: about that the intellectual mentioned that Bill? Well, just to I go to could you have ence, that school, only tionship talk with the in or two one that I the fact that for provided least I went career I law. But, in I minor to open my mind. the necessity Her and by opened to art say or ways at glad that as your class accounting in university, were you great a just many vehicle took her by this so in help would for that the to was in times in difficulty again, was, I rela- was in art I forward? remember can Yes, a it here Depression. the her up accounting mind and over ventured took of growth the little of world and She student fondness many experi- with my were there suspect you the your 1994 accelerated. opened it 3, Provo elective activity. great a have summary a and took with intellectual of explosion over whole going started I When having an She the her it married. exigencies arts. from and business a the with association me. as the in was heart I was business again, of came conjunction went only I whom she of JUNE awakening then in I was She because it classes. of school continued and portion when student business that came about of through. WG: it school the Gl - 2 think engineering I also that a and 59 I in course required, was economics took think and that I engineering took was a course required. WILLIAM R. GOULD Both were in elective deing one to a At course my ever the speaking WG: No. GT: Still WG: Yes, a "Tn We FO: Thanks WG: ER Rl engineer writing. level. your I did of was or and my this electives order to say that not try in write." determined could every remembered someone speak engineer good pretty heard I tenure and one 1994 filled quarter--in I but I ever As cannot this But surmise, grammar--one that my I was no one write. at the university had level of confidence in you your struggling? progress Matter of it. very oIy in that one the of Speaking." Should we quit? much. O A END EEim e OF came improvement toward treat I have GT: in speaking later. years ne years. 3, ability? were and that "Engineers of a developed might skill say end division you in trouble would upper interest years, having JUNE as my sharpen student GT: the thing to took 2 slet relates I NO. INTERVIEW 60 NO. 2 a couple memoirs of called, THE FOLLOWING LAKE CITY AND FLOYD NO.< ON IS AN OCTOBER A. 1994, WAYNE WITH WILLIAM CONDUCTED GOULD IS R. GOULD AT SALT GREGORY C. THOMPSON PRESENT. INTERVIEW BY ALSO 3. Mr. NG EeEisEneERhelit EQ: Billy Gould-- jwhen your naval City now Salt Lake ic, that No, it felt hats we career, and talk City. was not Provo and I a was i structure may moment of all, not already. into go to Lake back move it myself or sehere of in Salt from any Provo way that, T in almost like drawing board. It was move FO: Did WG: Well, actually here. My was father Provo home to came home to moved to a of noet my parent's my to traumat- rented 61 in on place? had sheet a kind as was the of a past coming into I of and. But clean always where part.of; and it had fields City, to city paper though on the flower. moved? younger and City a I speech. a like working Lake Salt Provo was Lake weekends on better exciting, mother, my the finding was your when Salt opening suddenly exciting. perform. here was was one university you weaswere; the was it because you to about been world .time want have itself, And last traumatic, seeciall the off First express the (Taughten) move? that it formall s left, could of FO: 7, O'NEIL. FO: WG: INTERVIEW Carbon this sister, County just weekends. and and meant I moved coming that he WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. WG: Yes, we moved FO: Now, do you WG: I don't, it a rented was but I I know but FO: What about WG: Yes, we young people at to socialize. the my were not welcome generally or one on 10th of move into? there. What compatible, of lot in people two for friends a have didn't I found I neighborhood ward a to easy it was The ward. the of which wards. east street the started say was There in I adjoining name the were There better first years? inactive that 1994 East. those later it. to the was university the that neighborhood the 7, 10th in was I of adjacent in were being some think, I were, I well, South was years neighborhood, that but few remember can't I East that 997 years a which Street McCelland ward think, was Ward at those until active. house which in wasn't Park Garden to remember It become ward OCTOBER because church. to 3 years many time the thereaf- ter. E@: been Caxr WG: Yes, was it and 1937, year the time, that At you that still what here moved was called have would "Street the Campus". as earlier, mentioned I we called it "Trolley Tech." (Laughter) E@): A lovely what we name are for now university. the is a great creliey? 62 From distance. "Trolley Did you Tech" ride to the WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD Well, I pass did on where we family, to the evenings, did on the transit 10th also that just Did WG: I did since what Provo, and, as I to Eirst opera performed EhaE on s awi i that the e other said, the Park But in and had I no a for was transit the ride I ride and any have like. was like a whole planetarium the Building e s bilay M Hell 63 for that--well, entire my steps. IS bigger world new had we as it related not were that a wasn't much so seen have it large; was in saw I that it university plays I is, a mother pass. hand, it library, the engineering, my entertainment my very not is Lake at an Mostly That cities to compared the events still evenings, to was us deal. pass and city the take saw? you on the of weekly of the take destined see public the 1994 spending family in would I weekend But, then, time a Salt The the on life, opening. use pass well, was because entertainment. metropolis. than to a would great campus part because, in the good what pass a 7, buy gasoline car a so to like you to wasn't I and weekly the free for system years, of had family, discretionary drive need a years the East I The primarily, weekends as those in had if girlfriends FO: In didn't from sister system would, system. go. we and take We commodity and couple OCTOBER transit had walked to 3 some. the expensive I NO. example, the life was Aida of the plays Some thoseNyearsiwe re ey, WILLIAM R. GOULD well done, ture to Did you WG: Yes I It was did, pretty The area. I WG: was time a minutes five to these were the movie some time they the system only the it some they but had thirty- for books the reading a was spent I there the was There clothing, hour you? malls; of and stand favorite time that at not attracted center. twenty-five Now, museum not your what had theaters on there 64 Temple at that for cents and I and I and admission. would Square time. cents ten was inexpensive most up little an to transit were remember, could time. way development buying to remarkably, changed the of range spent and system. What I the observe downtown I would I litera- exciting time the downtown; as they those. of (Chuckle) the theaters, The knew mercantile and them. buying without all and has before upwards or me from transit that department. book good I it the necessarily not there; vista for walk where it Auerbachs, called store to better. city was downtown me places commercial the on remember the new 1994 downtown? ride now or stores of downtown to the for must we Well, to liked area, necessarily or for people downtown go walked got whole itself to also I the but haunts pass I a 7, be. to uncommon well. city, city place that not opened the and downtown E@ s But use OCTOBER they good a FO: 3 and me. was it NO. look in spent at the some WILLIAM R. time GOULD in Memory Memory ‘like a the E@®: Well, then WG: With an pass down watching time are in the I only twenty and seen know what atmosphere I did go there up the new to me, old, so the major railway and and I people. the would I bicycle a a spend also a had lot still that stations that on rode I had, I see who people the of physically more little bicycle around GliEee good weather? FO: In WG: Yiesr FO: Did WG: NbrEeOUghtNE FO: And WG: Ye'shs you you have had the N E oM used bicycle that you brought from high school, I Provo? B EOVIOR it in there 65 to in were years perhaps many to rode haven't Provo. in trains, and They that trains 1994 don't galleries railroads two 7, park-like exhibits. were I I history. the current they the nice little the there. time. a a that passenger that at to at nearly than long around murals interest operated time walk around was and like the appealing now. it looked more them long, but nothing was art a and and had walking monuments capitol we OCTOBER for now, few rotunda 3 Grove Grove it's with NO. suppose. the WILLIAM Wayne R. G: I You feet was screened I could WG: Oh, yes, G Didn't WG: No, door Having WG: Well, covers if I quickly ont house the the for 1994 house. snow a and nickel. L0EhEast =it my parents a in and summer Provo to house, the into moved I So also where the from apart the was basement accustomed had and There had privacy. winter. warm screen, outside and it faced did myself, that the of out of it warm the was all to bed under the and 66 going in and house right. I remember one me a view of the gave course, east, find you nights? some on enough, The through house. popped thing. bound would I bed of out frost the you? did long bedroom your with I when right. all was covered be would mornings Some that. for I'd but wintertime, the in cold experience had in sister. there slept in milk by been the it but like slept difficult of structure get bounded that into the had blanket in linger I school younger blankets the breath when slept 7, cold? enough my from my I I would awaken would to occupied by and it he bucket Although pretty on pile was enjoyed I porch, that a unheated an because Was a one slept, in where walking that, porch. sleeping FO: to him s lepEinaEhateheolse have screen ask occupied a just to and bedrooms, other OCTOBER gets whereliN two FO: 3 wish this bare et NO. may mean, the WG: GOULD those days of primitive WILLIAM R. air GOULD travel, about often came over last things GT: So WG: Yes. it course to Oh, the in In on come over that I when and it observe girl who in would that was plane one before of I at the drifted we answer west became my Steleis, wife she don't probably il know. llelgEr to Of didn't wrote used fly Gl to me when mention our you then as there, not well hear could You now. as nearly smaller a was it is the closely; very listened it yards? the in trains the if hear noisy from as you could and you were shows in Salt Lake on State town tracks. the to I plane summer, hearing because Provo the dlehicieidc, the could as plane. over. flying you mail weather the whistles don't a that wasn't 1937, been e yes, the to 1994 night? wels remember you The watching or 7, remember airport see ole evieNgo? There yes. is side remember vaudeville some had still EiiEyeDild Sy eul WG: at have apart closer FO: would Bl were city I can and municipal that scheduled I awake inclement airplane WG: plane east. be flying in letters Do a the the could glll. we from still was It g was OCTOBER sleep. to off 3 there 12:30 very G- NO. of the the was a theater street of name 67 the just below theater, Street, 1st South. but most I of WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. vaudeville 3 was there and I did go on the and OCTOBER 7, 1994 enjoyed it very side of State. statue on top I much. FO: Was WG: It could B@ It was just below 1st South? WG: It was just below 1st South R @) That's that the have the Lyric Theater, SRIENGENEhae ™S e s Promised Playhouse. Valley No, Do I you don't. seated. didn't I was have a always the of ever (Chuckle) There was a did WG: Yes, in ones that that we built a the we fact came had. I crystal to the now was the a and .called the beautiful vaudeville remember be in Times old companies remember 68 was of I always because don't that recall I carried vaudeville and that like, things no I of one that would changed. in those Provo, some radio in remember also But know humor a I Where do I balcony player," have out. set. the sayings radios had I of have where elsewhere. banjo vein family your I earthy whole today. understand Bill and Lyric of vaudeville; follow kind. GT: The seated funds the few "Don't the there, any Although specifically away with | stilil remember west saw? you that E@): Lyric? been. old building. WG: old the that I got battery while the days? first the of radios powered still at earphones Provo I don't I WILLIAM R. my listening head I As I did WG: That is GT: Did did there or Carr? I go WG: Yes, I guess I ten the earphones through the crystal thing major up here radio my Fox memory in on set, Salt Lake. stations in 1937, or any people that liked to find movie on a a just Auerbachs the that I as and, cents, for theater I had nine cents and down that them were but my walked street the another find my penny. I That home. then. the Broadway Theater? 69 built, was cents. ten when looking was I in find the I got instead pocket didn't was State of west remember inexpensive it remember, and in can I most the cents fifteen or weekend. Theater Center downtown, Depression met ten that mentioned home to the have managed my up of to from that also. wide. I from into get subsequently Wasn't with that to go before was walked hoping same have I though. was walking found music two Sid that across could sleep 1994 movies? to week night That the wasn't to you South the would circle theater to that's meet Did one to were ever FO: every go 7, KSL. not, social to with correct, you OCTOBER used that involved I I recall and GT: 3 but KDYL WG: NO. recall, and GT: GOULD the it depths 3rd on Street. you but remember I there of ten. gutter and of so the I WILLIAM WG: GT: R. It GOULD could NO. have way, I think, When I first where Yes, FO: And an WG: It saved it OCTOBER been, in because those came you're WG: 3 called 3rd South, 1994 Broad- years. into the city there was still a theater describing. was the Broadway. interesting my we 7, old evening place. a number of times when friends, Bill, in those immediate I did have ten cents. E®- Surely. GT: Who were we're your talking neighborhood WG: No. GT: Did WG: I you went go by Provo. o The [Ewe they 10th other lived friends in two in that East. with friendships you because Provo, and of went to these the from your events? I BYU. and I came to person that came dropped FEEheM Erilendsh school parts of remember from that were two 70 girl at the that most think that diverse There friends course, to engineering in the students Nyedrs, t Lethinlk primarily gain go mostly Provo of you that yourself? were in Did would myself, remained one that by previously only here. days the I had of that them I was university out that the after VI one had "wexre university city. They neighborhood students, from and and were down I on didn't WILLIAM R. date GOULD NO. 3 either one of dating. FO: Now But the they OCTOBER them were university years. ever, because friendly worked Do you remember The first one that not been to hard any of I did 7, very 1994 little me. at the that field plays that in you those attend- ed? WG: introduced surrounded out a of a New country. I the play of was a she at a was the Do you that I but looking was one. I a great were remember mentioned number a there that the sophomore and looking at, So wife. I the of of was that had I do seen here. in those things. of starred who people the of any Aida sector sister future my almost interview fact I what at sector as play know didn't I freshman. a the of grew a only the and that was earlier an part it had that Fromme not to in the saw I that alse I literature to me Fromme. Ethan know Misbehaves play. that I think, playing the area. but I Ethan to introduced it student is way setting. Bishop The mind any literature, that there to in mentioned, time, remember Oh, England because girl in in theater theatrical bishop FO: the landmark, of comes plays? WG: remember ly there was of Hayes Gurey became quite very well. campus at (Laughter) one I a person who was prominent on active in il the in I If time that the world recall plays, of by and correctthe he name later periodicals. I WILLIAM R. GOULD think I'm he 3 worked sure time, NO. for there but I WG: Kingsbury Hall, out by those Kingsbury WG: Yes, I plays Ehat, ' T the very spent a on seats because my floor. GT: Oh;; ne.. WG: Oh, yes. those FO: Of WG: This of brand my were them Aida \goed that known is to 1994 familiar. me at that Hall? which the name 7, forward. Kingsbury was Park done on the Plaza Building. new. impressed later, the at steps was years on held So that carried except Hall was others haven't Were there Time-Life. were GT: E@: OCTOBER with part of hands girlfriend Kingsbury one Hall. evening, and knees had dropped two looking my Not or only three under the fraternity pin (Laughter) Didiyeousfind You know it? how important those things the military were in days. course. Now was Scabbard which fraternity? and Blade; it was frater- ndEye. FO: Did you like WG: Oh, yes. It you outgrow life and that they being was are fraternity fun, those men's for and in that but organization? it things. clubs I've are little was an boys therefore also long 72 believed outgrowth who worked life. plebeian, didn't it off of get in in that my is, adult fraternities pledged to their later a WILLIAM RE R. It GOULD NO. certainly 3 OCTOBER appears that way as you look at 7, it, 1994 does it not? WG: It FO: Some does. people never grow out of being fraternity members either. WG: BRI SSErue Tt 's¥ the iSive SR EL S everything, and when the I left school. Now, and I was think Clld to was that I G- What year WG: Oh, a my With name?" that the enter was name a smash was that would have time, were fling of one "ghoulish and being too. doing or Gould. Hall, group But like had somebody "Did I (Laughter) N Und on and it I line a but that At the that. line, the I wvarious skits Somebody but in the little laughter." say, production, something them. me graduate sure " N ihe remember can't stage e for behind started smaller SNeant6 their ‘pllace situation Kingsbury a in Wal theatrical in to S that I and and a was Miput in in thing ime® Utah this spring phrase, the it now, well, involved I say part big great of being at a aE fraternity university been went, that to new the have a remember performed was in the impertant SIS University Buititding, Building had we the rel left about N uUnT et could I I that schools EhinlcS Wmost it point call my remember hit. Bill? probably sophomore. 73 been when I was a junior or WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. EE) Abgut 19339 WG: Somewhere in GT: That have must given ar where Oh, it got through Gl And how WG: Oh, it GT: In the WG: WG: 1L GT: About WG: I been a had have Hall come one times current major why that must 7, 1994 for you, there. That's many the OCTOBER 1940" you was. Gardner on 3 step with I say I line. did been is half President's the the speech was a perform a nomenclature, which effort pattern. smash hit because I (Laughter) you a forward dozen smash or you're most Cirecle the hit? so. talking west, about northwest, the building today. SEE. to go noticed part of through that campus, a renovation there and is I a as chain guessed is the link they're Kingsbury. fence going around to that rebuild or something. GIE- They're redoing FO: Remodeling, it. updating. Do you a remember man named Joseph Ballif? WG: Oh, do I indeed. He of dean was think. Am himgensanumber of I students, men IcightleonSthatipant? FO: Yes, WG: @l you il kdiid occasions. very are haye I Did right. know you anginterfacepwith wouldn't say 74 that I knew him? him to the point WILLIAM R. GOULD where he NO. 3 would OCTOBER call me by name if he 7, walked 1994 into the man; oh, room. FO: Tell WG: Oh, I me your rather think and he heat FO: Was WG: Oh, pompous. he was would than he a get my (Chuckle) on the in subject, things considered on good. the Now, but was was portly create a fun more guy. affairs? maybe about using do. So president an 85%. WatEadlzs, ™ onel to was He and say WstidenE tall was. he been campus a about would have Thomas I student I might not rush handling he was than and perspective term, He shorter EhaestalNhbiigh S marEk S for hardest him? flustered effective from of little light engineer's FO: impression 85% of of the would the be univer- sity? WG: Yes. FO: How WG: Distantly. a FO: WG: had I him. interesting, would have Well, I been think body the under the was him me from my vantage didn't You Olympian. of who differently life, my in performer point. had He reach but was him. others interface more none. It's student by kind perceived have with least meaningful a wasn't may At figure, distant He perceived? he was year 4,200. 3,000 that The 7/ when I you entered, reason the at body student I were here. Floyd, say university that the is total that I WILLIAM R. GOULD carry the a NO. 3 memory school 2,200. I of to engineering OCTOBER the fact which I school, carried were all the was a 159 in my by at the at the GT: A eertain WG: I think that another one. better GT: matter That was the three he was right, sure acecuracy, that In the You had by the quite principle calculus what. the pass? 76 and you going not was right. today? courses certain student the out I wsellection), for grim which was weed out, certain calculus was school few, a the of end he natural didn't because left are you thin engineering out weeded time, look a the were situation, dean good enough there actually to financial at get Greg, the had his your of We introduced take at te.that wasiamproce gsiv o the did. course no of years, Nt students courses out Ehat and least at two designed What most you or those in Pepuiliatien guess. year, ameunt.of were that the recall: Hall on about Utah time. He no of that man the had time Lade "Gentlemen saying, they at Ketchum. 1994 hometown, that 4 1200, of by my University name and And here." be to the Kingsbury right year, sophomore at engineers your of end was at in because in the on man go that S that BYU gather speech orientation not mind freshman freshman man did at enrollment WasSEvemasnearinrsEwilce there that 7, thermodynamics inculcated better get in by you a was that thermos WILLIAM R. WG: Yes . FO: The GOULD sine NO. 3 OCTOBER gua non. Did you have classes off the 7, 1994 horseshoe circle? WG: Yes, I that is had wrong. a now, But that hydraulics I there street on hydraulics up what the laboratory we was the for laboratory that time, guess would westerly lab was FO: about all. Where was Swas those where the right down of that the a South and the street slope, were was I and il on I general it the cleoser to off took such shop, that were hydraulics was campus what think the the building that of remember area was called I had was, pattern the fall and the at runs on water doing circle at I the hydraulics from and the certain MtheNcirecleNNATHNSRoE o offered library? a faced 1little of there that area music I be courses tip wworkhdewnithere courses EElle the because we shop, horseshoe. could really but on the I same it were about 1st that work building campus InWthat down be the a1 thellcitrelle 8 shop, ROTC, What was down military lab. there side faberdtony in the there of Also there, campus heat geometry, there. was, in maybe thermodynamics, machine descriptive for here building gD eixeclel butenotiiont offered the up boundary There called as old north Elengineessing courses used an there. was hea think, class the that's WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD The NO. 3 was where library OCTOBER the Museum of Natural 7, 1994 Hi¥SEomy il today. FO: So WG: And GT - EESgpenecd’ WG: It it had opened was the earlier, quite at the engineering library, didn't a two years when She would go and mind GIE: Where WG: She So WG: Yes, and I have the the too day, was 1933 called basement was time there. some library girl who and where city, Bill? until the the I last became my wife. went, my heart she away. ways the to I The Park. Nibley of East. 5th far if side buses walk. had my because it would ride She father's car, was, the I as buses, would longests byMthies you show route Find: car a in"1936" the b raryStoftakeMherShomel which was in westerly ride ¥ could This time the would EhaE WG: spent the she e And I in a upNaENE FO: In and South 2816 good ‘opened time. study, quite a came? followed. on down It dating to live surmise, on was lived and might of there was she GT: I she lived address lot usually did you T'“think:" new spend time new. quite was it by this? Plymouth. every car We I have (Chuckle) 78 called owned the car ever Hortense, since and Hortense. WILLIAM E@a I R. GOULD see, you NO. just Oh, I did not did this Saltair early out on WG: No, I never in of WG: talk (tes about thes weather dance hall State and ever go came here for called Main the Street interest in we went to times in the the after going to out as Saltair Rainbow on about 79 you was That hamburgers. my student body I could dance I and other the a buy could twenty dance. jof to theycity. might open, surmise, but BiYE! dance. to Saltair there Rendezvous. It was South, as I 6th Center the to and car, the in use car, gallons two put could remem- can I car. lucky was I when couldiuse: city | tothecore when T swim. university my il experience, Saltair the to tickets to a in gasoline Eiftyacents;sand you two cent five to Bill, or gallon two for more hamburgers I per cents go of you, times dollar one and gallons to father's my of enough or I the Rock were Those card, \gojdewn 1994 Railroad? fifteen me Black activity the better to were for Yes, go One I cents You bit. If for you developed described a for two had date. corsage GT: I a two put after use the leave constituted card, years that. for and Theater two have days those would that first Garfield have gasoline Did would rode to name. quite we the Go ber, I dancing GT - the after that autumn enough The but girl with 7, Saltair? later. go, OCTOBER stuck to recreation WG: 3 dance? was in was a between remember. WILLIAM R. We GOULD would go jitterbug down age proceed tame, but than down at it the a the dance for a and is a now and Ballroom or accurate, I think that Wasn't I they Yes, GT: Terrace FO: The great think it was the tore In just his I I that. the below west the to I as it just across a last those the of dinner party night, in the to remember, that structure Ambassador if Main Street They 01d There know Newhouse Lagoon? in at Covey's side that is and Hotel. tore that down mEloyd. building down about Ballroom. Terrace was summertime. don't old danced where it might also trying of was We gave was called forerunner the the was called 80 later. go We it you danced family north like on in too. Building we fact, of just that the and standards offbeat, Union good we was more days, room. hall notiEoeonliengrage FO: were something but it Student dining today's 1994 of lady went, University. the was young friends Religion hall. dance By 7, beginning this bit of the our the several America was at weather another friend of little Institute was take number dances was there would a these when This jitterbug. £from Oh, Little I was street Mill there. to the years. OCTOBER and and would say, 3 down there, the GT: NO. ten years ago. WILLIAM WG: R. I GOULD think NO. in my Ambassador, I think FO: It was but WG: Now would of later years dance slow on and turn a carpet the was Here (Laughter) distinguished way. But old Cal fine guy whom I Bill, Park in was the a in graveyard the days focal this in was liked that peint the a native son and was I shift they would that it native son about still and we're I who am 81 park cars on the us wear is and in he speech was here evenly." supposed his was work a to be that fine, do. talking told. to bring off it used when would starting good to used I said, I before. place I speak to up stood and speaker, a as in garage, the Cal me introducing the so in fact friend, good my Hotel people that, than more I When In can I business how telling was shift graveyard the of group a been But here. It Blade the but, dance. to was He and. Utah. Hotel Newhouse, embarrassed have thing. of I've know, "You the selective. Scabbard the in there times to like the in governor. he and sort and like point. Ehat dance time was speaker that tricky units a hold may I luncheon all something 1994 before. social several who Utah named is ‘en that one Rampton, Hotel G- the went I been 7, ballroom. frequently Utah, had memory heard remember only the large some it S Timtwreng I've a OCTOBER day caultddheNthat GT' 3 about here, Liberty WILLIAM R. GOULD FO: Especially WG: Yes, it that time. FO: ¥es. WG: Pioneer there NO. for would But Liberty is but I WG: There was it only that it was had the as a the place. side, of a reputation; I say can big who was dancing would about locomotive There at Pioneer? people fine remember reputation night good has ever good good were thing a west have who The pavilion the water. no. heaven's only accosted That was realize that looking for Later a it at there. pavilion there. Did they going That is, there I indignant, and believe I did. I remember But kind fine of aviary in it came I generally anywhere speaking where 82 hit to I felt the but town unsafe was me to highly being him, was world the in remember mood the to shock predators can I solicitor. male a as city? anywhere. a Eown i @ity the in by was male males. was very walk would I were other a that Saltalake anywhere and time there one was Was that and first small park. of once, the a shaEheavilanry:,. fear had there, the in et you don't didn't people built was EENSEIN Oh, on don't a overlooked 1994 there? dances Ie.deni . know. WG: park Park GT: that the that. moment there, EO) and some the that been It 7, neighborhood. have Now were OCTOBER your Park. populate hold 3 I don't safe. walking. WILLIAM GT: R. GOULD Bill NO. you've Auerbachs. WG: 3 OCTOBER mentioned Were one there other that time that you visited? Yes, there was one by on the north used-book State of side that of stores. the They theater were recall cents, GT: What was the best used-book WG: I know that I one on don't GiE- of books of number South several them and, for I wanted. that east a city? I judge, to I patronized. may I that books also at South, that South 2nd East 3rd competent now city 2nd the in of have still library. my in bookstore new best the was What a buying remember in was there but to or then was on going store on were 1994 part the was There number a buying few in that clustered very being bookstores street. can I Street. bookstore 7, you do city, the recall? WG: of Utah. Building. There University the at bookstere the Probably (Chuckle) GT: And that WG: No, it was a in was the in was "I'11l meet alongside you the basement popular a was It at Building? Union the on fountain pump. the the of basement place pump." pump. 83 Park the that we called meeting. We would floor for The bookstore was the say, just WILLIAM FO: R. GOULD I've were When In 3 forgotten There WG: NO. so all about many that things bookstore crowded you were there was the part, but they had moved street that runs just little about the FO: Across WG: Yes, second from they there by Building took a building the Stewart had moved the time the was there large Busisldiingy s and heart For and the school some of on basement. Park Building. there? it down the then that 1994 the still of east over was part of here. to that library, street. the But and the of art followed. I school in in My art down the Park The art future wife offices. gallery. classes eofS law still administrative senaturalily’ mind into law good number in 7, School? a I were department in the Park counse;,mwhereishewa siimy; would go up there to meet her Jdunchy. was would mother because my eat lunch of for one did not contain weather good did. In Park Building. prominently in Again the in and would I she because hers with sandwiches would we the campus. 84 Park eat on my me sandwiches. We of my one trade loved lettuce. lettuce the Building the married ever girl this lettuce put together sandwiches lunch that reason only The record. on this have to like would I but digression, a be this now lunch, about thing interesting an is There may OCTOBER and steps figured of Her mine the very WILLIAM R. GTs What WG: Her GOULD did NO. her natural He was a he He in year, and G- First child WG: No, of the structure the flu epidemic But born 1994 in the it of she steel people, as the before human being 1918, in following born. construction the was was flies, erected. December But of that February. family? the in months those on later on she had a I and Smelter, Midvale the two foreman one was 7, do? died was she third. at father construction walked died OCTOBER father industry. that 3 step-father worked he what just know don't that ditd’ FO: remarkable, it find I in especially WG: FO: e S as (Laughter) lettuce. of faces You FO: of lot a girl. Not just a play items disbelief words, there to get then, you comes across were of wave situations My printed by a in was lettuce attracted on "lettuce." (money) greenbacks a A luxury the everyone. know, called that what to the from reading about now students to this say We Depression, WG: was. lettuce luxury a what off-season, remembered, we how back, thinking girl. the the world the There where lettuce that time a was no were lettuce grew when doubt attracted as a plant (Laughter) treasury, 85 right? That's we remarkable. WILLIAM G R. When GOULD you you and WG: had you were dorm Practically which by Beta I the name residence. I disappointing to get you did Did campus. on dorm a to 1994 moved with think you that you, spend you those know to than I was I think people which one Harold it Link, fraternity one was, but I I was and House. END OF INTERVIEW 86 NO. to the at lived They 3 had that friends of pledged were who in number a quite had I houses. had of bit family 7, residents? none. remember your family a was dorms; affluent more the move the that can't it to hoped university in earlier in houses. the stayed time ties OCTOBER to much were 3 came mentioned you NO. fraterni- fraternity house, a with good him I and friend in the THE FOLLOWING LAKE CITY THOMPSON COOLEY FO: IS ON FLOYD ORAL when about we Salt 28, A. HISTORY Bill, I want to IS the OF NO. 4. time talk you we were today in about SALT C. EVERETT last were AT GREGORY THE before detail, when GOULD BY PART INTERVIEW more R. CONDUCTED THIS interrupted in WILLIAM 1994, PROJECT. experiences region. WITH O'NEIL. Lake naval Bay INTERVIEW OCTOBER AND your AN L. and talked talking about the San your Francisco first time at sea. WG: Well, my Helena. We first not yet into the Mare Island Navy overhaul during which were aircraft made. greater to The primarily of one »Is of training title of assistant on assistant various ship had, ships a number was on the because ship that superintendent year had but we The the of ship was of the that the going on war in power of was aircraft of a antiin the because of alter- and that before. .navy the nevertheless learned had purpose believed at,, 1941. Helena decks, threat U.S.S. was placement the time there, training, kind for the we the Yard clearly and cruiser formally. that very the and something was than warships, wposiltion war which at greater, was the topside, navy on cruiser, of indicated had aircraft work One This our throughout the heavy batteries superstructure. best was a general Europe sea was in ations at This were been time it syard was was the I doing. by and superintendent I were in. Now, on the Helena, was we had would not however the the WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. 4 superintendent of of ship building, commander--his name was remember fondly, some experience that I would such things with the trials. as the I a that lot it 1994 who the rank of my be navy went he career occasion out that (Chuckile) ™ "Now, I her went *dol youl had ever that if nor later he for man well Neither Nevertheless, she had fine would run. runs. the man 28, Anderson--a trial when was Seime ™ Well, a trial Helena continue E®: on spend This Eirst thought a OCTOBER to ‘wish® I I had I knew on just sent me post repair sea out for me" the to just narrative? want to know boat in if you been out Bay. (Laughter) to sea before? WG: On the GT: It wasn't was it? ferry exactly E@): If WG: AllthoughM N memory but that was of at professional tor Califeornia™ traveled go by aboard having open peacetime. the sea is They experience take to prepare you for When with I I guess, to en''a the things one U.S.S. battleship which carried of most me 88 of aboard i the phase I old they did vessels They U.S.S. was which did New of went vacatien. New Mexico, the have S ne this years two was "my ¥ parents” and this, that. precursor, career. house, Francisco saysithatMseone Ehiing ™ that a train the San we'll should® my the often to was in Mexico. WILLIAM R. So I GOULD had WG: Tell me you had Oh, it i Fas your that than the other I about it all journal before, at sea, so 1994 but was all Bridge and under the was not it I my and of what at is sea, total more. time career, went the in leads near were it bay written man in the Oakland Bay proceeded out the and Bridge we the my I in because down it than hours--probably recorded Gate Golden trip and We in anticipation expected navy passed things bigger few seeing then We I of greater, hours--the Gate that. and first all in lot This exciting. experience a The those time and Golden the in are ildife..+ It indeed other chains sea. oh, several are called known to the mariners the off water h-o-s--of result hundred was the sea that off miles as the Golden floor the sea We Islands. Falleron "potato Gate was was 89 shallow passed what traversed It patch." where very, and coast the went, we trial, the of scope the you give to Just of around. eighteen new the There than more to any so more. was learned than toward to vessel experience realizatien. way sixteen out, naval illesser because think a first and fthat s are the was aboard 28, expected? was life, OCTOBER it. of about greater was 4 been eonsecieus RE): NO. is a what is stretch the benthos--b-e-n-t- and flat, very, and rough. the Then net we WILLIAM R. GOULD proceeded We then of the and NO. turned trial, tional security but on out radio it calls in anti-aircraft above adequate that kind. drunken I inte what in the lavatory, to give fellow in means that the stall up was a Bridge rules of seasick I was of ship. rolled momentarily. the !head," 90 doing the 1like was or which I same been hadn't remember breakfast. the things It seasick called me There ship is deal, had the can out placing and I to great ballast but my a on mariner weight badly, of the In real some observing in ever doing proceeded what s aw Code of were rolled the T Morse means we lot sliiifel the waters. of that that next scope interna- the a We it patch made was mavy the entered of tender, buoyancy I became sick. means could. very topside, life 1994 trials. Gate iiniimy, because we guns feeling was as potato my in soon There those sailor. time only by done very, result Golden filestll tilimes compensation net her was carefully light. center of That the very ships much all 28, communication. hel which the been under we or being was "tender," The went ship back. observed Sforsst as the came sea, We was ship especially to search silence the we between a give and signaling to and added as eremember applied to around communication and out waters. B OCTOBER further proceeded this 4 of a the motion going is noticed thing. the a He WILLIAM R. had GOULD four looked me the exciting. of FO: It ship taking And, going ballast? WG: No, on a was fun the of as did I was I was OFENcounse” WG: There not on waters. went and of us of the the But ship it was I was learning about the business sea. the along the addition is we at of the leg sweeping curve in was that out the previous trial he was the fellow who also aboard was tutored also me saw before trips, the of San southerly I Gate, when in in to minute to she it that went out out how On the find I 91 to Bay sitting course a but help on a the made we Francisco couldn't was trip. that when journey, middle generally Golden out stands the of summer but but who only superintendent sea. that thing ome day ballasted made or guest, not properly why a that wrong was assistant as was bound the we All because learning. 1994 turned badly. weight supervise what outward go you he behaved FO: to to He was rough how and That's ship course it was mine, to Helena again. I and superintendent friend the and vessel back, feel And very sea iron trip. detail don't noncompensated very, at (Chuckle) 28, (Laughter) that the "Son, the remember, was the did an sleeve. (Laughter) of and his said, same." topside a OCTOBER on and combination what 4 stripes at feel NO. from a westerly think of as an horse WILLIAM R. GOULD artillery NO. cadet miles to great life the it -especially GT s BaNSSSSE at Fort south. I was be the life to there accept and move think it Oh, I was because main reason I out to the near the along landlocked very blood about it sea, sea sea for mountain reflect a than 1994 hundred what the a army- differently Even I'm state, life doing I salt that on later it compatible was That when ride though afraid who we it my went Gould Bill heaven. I teday. that or walk frequently exercise. on to people made union a was it you the and sea large the day that the liked really the that felt I establish. to think I for left not is with rather easy my ever I wanted it. was of all sea I that a liked I and reason the be immediately, only much I but to that it spent other; and only interfacing had one have left each too feel don'"t the intuitively for made were liked following I There I The the was rather your embrace? life sea Yabeut and family 28, soldiers. into the with navy it could happy. being was the help was was. I which you, liked sea. and What in culture. for I and to went I Ord, couldn't horse and change ships Gl OCTOBER i e tetusRa Nt B lle military WG: 4 live bicycle was born water is a in in my firmly. the pretty and discipline easy for you 92 to that move side into of the that military, regimen? WILLIAM WG: R. Well a GOULD yes, four NO. and year where the 4 maybe ROTC it discipline a was for graduate efNalealilecqueis demanded OCTOBER degree in was sort of cemplex was crop under ease at think, in same was is), type there and Sitrembilldin in the gieoE WiEhe riding a carrying at quite was I day that army token e military in But the toiE relationship quarters admiral's the more ' ships Espealkit the campus in sitting Island Mare others. the by But arm. his and this soldiers, certainly, War! colleague or around walked who colonel I been That n o !"Star having navy that, Wi 1994 horse the St andkin W E cartand disEoli SESe Raveya I forces land collegiate a of more rigid, S Now, discipline, more was there ' our today, is army, professionalism point machine reason, teof | rellationship. e what the quite herselicsolldiiersidildEn 'ef this 28, sk ISilsEensnoMtomnimstailllsabeutNsemeefShbiisexperiicnce say don't and indN s b R eI I Now, ships saw later martinet and the discipline was not the usual that there. closeness well and writes I'll one thing, the st reyeiEs) shtiipsistEhcide I little scene a in and Wouk bit where his to hero, it about the a was captures tell large smaller the submarines--there little 93 by but especially Herman think blaspheme rigid, was a was captain the where on alS R thing. a of kind questions," ask Do Ee ciliin gt hanMtheNallcoE o R to got you've and us of one are "You of more was There very it. He captain, WILLIAM R. GOULD walks by sailor NO. the is 4 gun in bet the here Yare your ass, army, is tub getting binelieSsantllon, "You OCTOBER a ready." that saw too. I the guns iwe ready is, at ready in that Wouk the for them?" Now, that the the this The would army the it, I the He says, sailor says, never happen that kind 1994 as I knew. colloguialism, is captured sailor action. for least saying think Herman addresses Captain." sailor I'm and 28, of "Captain navy think, But that very, I very well. FO: The WG: I Captain was of suggesting person remember on the It's WG: I that the tip the my your WG: Well, I could remember here at army and Station this that were more created, hero. But, Oh, they were rare than and I'm rare? the kind ERyEnGRES geemwhizimiiEUsRrsiiglit anyone who's read the book Island Mare to into the the navy, same that there university, the for thing one sea to was far more captured kind who who of 94 happened? what continued I and Wouk Queegs. journey back went Herman Captain first After went of suggesting Wouk tongue. the FO: I they Herman kind than common you awhile. been think that name of are this. of knows E@i= Queegs, to work really were had went duty at When me. impressed I yard. the of my colleagues followed me out two the down to that summer of the Alameda Air that I had, WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. which was duty me the Mare at oh, in forty-five the who people on I WG: Flusser, who had at the fianee see me. business old and that time I said, "You I'm existed from is I with I to about, a down seaman are in whatever see was was was ladder some coveralls was and I in the can even Elusser. at can know, down the lcrew, that there in IElisisute then. 95 I the guts all Ehey watch down and had I am middle better don't in know to my there to home been this about something is the they writing they Here and wwhereas around at while there was remember great. Shack." little a looked they and them service their in stood there and deck on up stand to was right saidy Radio me. there I U.S.S. visited that really already I you." 1994 day them There colleagues saying at that went we I station. air neeringewerk: bought do to given been find Gould with the looked I weork deodingy of W Ehership see Utah believe couldn't just to one took destroyer. to I of and coveralls, it "Ensign was up 28, again? uniforms. blue and companionway it University in a came hour, covered the was it of want ship, of an said, and up to F-l-u-s-s-e-r. two dress me, deck the name The space and They shipyard minutes went remember my Island dirty I FO: training. down was bilge. OCTOBER in machinery came and 4 twenty-one years major engi- of than if a Heath Radio kit Shack WILLIAM R. GOULD GT: Heath FO: The at WG: I kits idea That &g WG: And of did in was war my summer I two career was be primary the Surely, WG: Yes, FO: That!'s go on with work temporary training. You yet. of anxious to see graduated. to So quarters here at I worked on the I on, on by submarines I them. It on an But at and I never on ships that we Train." They were armed while I brief called and time regret engineering it I destroyers only my the sort lot those fleet days, were that serviced tenders a vehicle too. wright. 96 not exist not they were could to but They of in and sea. a.crucial I that marvel fell in end which this the were the But was was Island. ships. us who school, there worked just us university. submarines, was of our Mare combatant because finish after worked at those released well, on submarine the they submarines. worked taken that the Helena. work also fleet E@): started and the around "Ships you for back really I this they? did go little because weeks was there a eight hadn't navy experience did Bill, for graduation the same. 1994 sright: the near didn't 28, Island? the FO: OCTOBER though, the there see, 4 did is Mare was NO. without them. WILLIAM WG: R. But GOULD I had about the the I nia built. cruiser for that incident. You only make just a battleship that Mare into it ran better not anymore, but they Califor- across the those risk I the on mud the They Island. battleship stern channel to year. worked on down. on you navy; the in command senior (Laughter) get don't a chance. Now, understand. It the it, mistake one on working following launched perturbed a was 1994 channel history that 28, of on the the figured They from there up it's everything We work they in September in it, WG: When bank. bet didn't Island's rammed and second FO: Mare ships I'll summer experience draft deep WG: that I that battleships in opposite GT- gamut. had Earlier channel OCTOBER experience bring was 4 whole summer; didn't NO. really was it October, almost the to back come to from returned you that take summer, I last week U. the was in September. then and E@:: Sure, WG: e sE BE@: Where were WG: Well, I for one when where you my was it my graduated classes. announced parents It was walking were. happened? at room my in here. Harbor Pearl when sitting was of you We Ok a home Sunday out all and into looked a writing I the at can paper remember living each room other WILLIAM R. GOULD because we NO. 4 knew OCTOBER that EhatEl Hieiteaulids but, nevertheless, branch to of had, because the Navy going mean the determine if follow a engineering WG: This FO: After I made a plan wait degree that change I plans prompt "Stay where two than knew also my in almost in we in was very that rather change inquiry I.got:a We 1994 plans, the immediately that reply you the navy back from are. We had." That is, in months and see you to just best are other with jump the gun about the navy. and now. you Surely. a would felt saying, the hostilities. drastic still was thisg.. we FO: I there of meant very service. words, grab a Department to full this 28, was what you had question arEaolsh pleased so completed that tol me is very your obvious golsandis ge e viinid much degree here--well before that it S rathert there one. Ehany is Were you tEinkssh s the degree? WG: Oh, yes. could my There see the was good red Everybody with intellect overruled be date to happen, great be too. for married For of that, sense. I think said, blood stay to me when of I my "Let and and finished, the 98 on the years other intellect to wanted emotion, the most but everybody because emotions would some me I that I overruled get in it. the at 'em." But could see where finish. and hand I Also, I wanted the war a had that was it to going WILLIAM R. on, GOULD NO. there was specialized that was doing wanted of of branch job. that, but go a of I pull, you know. I the fleet with supplying was part of a nevertheless, cadre of every to sea and fire attitude. But the intellect the 28, guns, you would was people once 1994 in in ships, who a a were while, know that usually I kind overrule emotion. the E®: OCTOBER kind my to an 4 When you graduated, did you marry before you left for the navy? WG: I Now, you days you years, and in school because of I was I what knew this on those do, to going we got married moment too soon. So, prospect. on future my had I economics. had and I the Friday three and married get a week. (Laughter) almost for campus didn't test of that. than closer any courting been afternoon Friday the it cut can't had we But on married was Yes, go to me. before paycheck in afternoon of week. test FO: c e IS WG: And not FO: How long WG: That a the was we didn't of the could before set, they navy the marriage. be You problem. want and called were you before (Chuckle) we set that date because grab me and then miss the to set the then the navy grabbed navy? the know, we So by me. 919 date just waited as two tightly or three as day EIlE weeks WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. FO: You WG: Yes, fretting. life is @) spent those when navy called The FO: In WG: Again, two or what you were you I was about where Naval a I a officers programs. be short, in the at guess .. at the in do Salt Lake? least best university your So, who first in and the assignment? in navy be an at Mare New Jersey. fitting There were ship this theixr building was going to which South Daketa, ratherm Sttt Eingieoute been I and least York Ship brought down New of had at for superintendent hull Yard She out, to at architecture Island the Camden the orders maintained assigned on arrived 'L . Eo . Etrain buitlding,Neors at superintendent. had assistant primarily for naval War me yard the \World would I further navy made Camden, to When had The stay built been MIT. my yard, navy go since they they to since e shiptthent WasHambat hull I situation. that hence, course engineer the thing was training month LI to here 1994 Yard. learned eouErse, Building The finished back, in postgraduate had weeks 28, capacity? Philadelphia She three (Chuckle) Philadelphia me, OCTOBER wait. Bill, WG: 4 was two an assistant or three of us. EQ:: An assistant? WG: Hull, h-u-1-1, ship experience superintendent. I had, even 100 That though gave it me was what brief; battle- I was WILLIAM R. i GOULD NO. 4 OCTOBER oerNehatlchuip high intensity R UE, Nence learning. I aisehiandisheMvasigeoing detached from had o Philadelphia, just like All through my life casccathaiEINENle axn e I what in experienced period bride in time Cambridge of Salt [ to menth, things go and in my T was to was professional lot a professional, it well in gratitude but SSnocompliaiinit extremely me served the to I that years and wait, and sSEEENhave was was complaints. of up hurry but it whether experience; hear i pe opilie o E hMAlIot meon seven the a Ehe' that experience nothing have I life. later ot it and course cram a was dlkinSE military My whatsoever. new at to conplidint e thci c o VoINS used nothing was it hear You'll I you'll else, anything or navy go fEor military their about complain my was 1994 ship. that on left to SeERwa shalilNalloneNEhere sponge 1t s ointme MRS a again), 28, was navy a for naval of Eilcer:. FO: you So little and FO: By over the definitely WG: Yes. FO: Yet, the that only much a week your took 101 oh, there in May feet on place. have could it month. learning month? a Well, arrived I last got you time menth. a month. a about left Philadelphia in only lonly Y there Nwas WG: were I e in been¥a mid-April, guess. greounc)tEhaiEiES WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD Yes, and ence in I what set adrift was 4 OCTOBER think--well, anything and I NO. is the in going meraES el that this learning two attitude of getting navy WG: Yes, that FO: What is WG: Postgraduate. FO: The WG: In E@: Which after that was the to month when have was I postgraduate Dakota, is Now, when I "I was the best the great to it. experi- what Philadelphia 'me. over went course architecture was things, South itf%to learning and offered I told was was that there! eager and I ingredient desire 1994 to Let think in the learn. you were reassigned the P.G. course again? at MIT. P.G.? the naval on in probably process, And yard Histgive was FO: the on work Fhat believe, depends the to I 28, stressed, at MIT. and marine naval engineering. architecture or marine engi- neering? WG: I would the treats long say The naval the hull was the navy were that was who designated their career is architecture usually into were concerned primarily of EDO the The (Engineering specialty. 102 ship. The other people Duty a areas. two specialty constructors. for and constructed, that naval part naval hull divided called machinery see the architects were that You how hull, the time both. who Only), with phase did and WILLIAM R. GOULD Now, and 4 both both often NO. groups groups succeed shipyard or an By there with nationally I think it and a it FO: Were WG: Well, it the you bit to classes went guaranteed, trouble, deep fit by because trouble. naval that kind. to ship done, have in qualified EDO. That concerned was who in credit, the machinery, my judgement, had We in known who their field who this course and have maintained compressed just they were people maintained They ealchatng Filloniit salsiilof it it. into babies attended; were they crowded? assignment and your attendance you if So and: hull and war heavily there a combat just became not i dilsEinetdlon were 13-J. Course we of a that ‘thel years, for of us officer had navy The called was funded little was us. teaching were did succeed should internationally and They did, they kind. that of things or officer of as soinasthits it cachin g BheyaNdhldnitB fellows few command everlasting navy's the to and a 1994 line command something 28, ship. beth studied command. then Only whole the we MIT At of It Duty the W bilurred B thiati they machinery. ship, the or the lot of the and mean a Engineering an base, Non were and to machinery, and because is, I ERllaEcis star except could, command, hull hull command, they between the succeed advanced afilleatSBu both wore could to Nevertheless, command. OCTOBER we 103 didn't had about attend eighty were in people in you WILLIAM R. GOULD my class all over It was record FO: when The obvious the Well, your Did may sound experience I had in comes, do how was to isolated you let schools from like the feel you a MIT. broken navy, but your enter it training into those there were placement test excused from that was take to to my few say that in good me of group that a and stood Utah of because have I So in high very placed I I of University the at and included. were that a Thermodynamics courses. those in us had others although gave course, the classes case, They there. of colleague also Utah He did well he was exempt the well in FO: Were you WG: Yes, a at I an beginning of set undergraduates 1994 eighty entered. we when engineering too. Utah Utah because stead, of as from training the WG: me like classes from 28, MET? us standing 12(0)5 question ‘at several people including praise University the at were experience, I take of two OCTOBER country, great good. 4 they the a ceourses WG: and was at NO. do in ease the University well? from he course; bit, fairly of some the classes finished by the or course not. in whether now But good he did order. MIT? primarily early, know don't I but course, the intimidated little from you with was who the because 104 name. here However at the I was soon University WILLIAM R. of a GOULD Utah, I had standard Tables, and tions that These men 4 OCTOBER used a textbook throughout that Kennon was I was had my one for by by two my called people by of Lewis. now classmates name at who MIT. was as undergraduate and your instructors." He They taught graduate courses were taught primarily by took the them teach. doing now. That We kind Surely. of It's very months, and have edge of the by school be names man "It standing the Steam vibra- said, an the was in graduate--I here It textbook a must 1994 another instructors of 28, thermodynamics. profession, used written were to the compiled Keys. remarking FO: NO. off interesting. been remember MIT wonderful have people "We awe long was go of to this never like for under- to teaching my How an said, of I saw they're fellows." MIT. the course at MIT? WG: Four FO: Everybody WG: Yes, of was it so to a a cram or university put into thin archive, academic cram the At a institute many wartime credits got were a course. in courses I end War II. was the equivalent it think course the of World degree, but they credit for the letter accrued 105 they people. on from to my did they just record. Fisle us It wasn't tried to in my Somewhere them a issued give classes. where courses skill of veneer I've cram a course, than rather diploma like was semesters. two was it stating what WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. 4 OCTOBER FO: Did your wife move WG: She sure did. I FO: So WG: Yes, for of FO: the Was it three blocks into this can if and you he wrote at my name train in just our in have took I other side. difficult to get we don't name on a started to go something." it, apartment that, meant which by showed He nightfall two university. 106 and a we half us went an I you "Well, He door. the just to and paper of a minute an apart- arrived having were or anything." piece Gould, Mr. "Oh, I about said, out have two us house. have He name?" my said, and ask off took must fellow a to our We apartment an stashed sent they because what and MIT. to on York station system upstairs somebody We my then midafternoon, own it afternoon. "No, said, I looked we Was New house want." him. and the from to river leave to ment on in housing I it might the railroad the can handed I in the up "Well, said, on but Thursday a apartment apartment Boston. supply, came We me. about there inquired side in is a place? transportation public the Cambridge her. is Boston short locker a in lived which and in was been have luggage you finding after looking must River without times? housing was months difficult those Well, go Cambridge, Charles in on in 1994 Boston? wouldn't four really by WG: that to 28, bedded blocks from by down the WILLIAM R. FO: Wow! WG: But he GOULD I learned looked Jewish and WG: No. He FO: Oh, I WG: That 4 the a I that persuasion. Well, The a plant in Sure. WG: I a had lot experience hull design that I made "as' I was years experience at Mare Island. to me. designs. I still We were preliminary some of the destroyer that we conceived 107 have as an a power propeliler: of that architecture and at home and a lot tracings asked layouts ourselves. side, shipboard than naval But of more earlier of Design. dose a toNdEiveNa shiph been mechanical because nothing was then out? Hull and the Since have who generous university, the at from stands the on a boy community. courses given been 'little friends engineering those ship a Architecture that of that as German? Jewish Naval had new thought and interesting. the of and lines is of was he wonderful sEatiion¥placedfontboard E@): were the and here undergraduate power I that of lot with marine in courses Rotteburg, 1994 tribe." That was it guess I was 28, Jewish. which months, four the 'contact fine many name Gould, you was Utah had WG: of "was " my " first of his of (Laughter) I've The name thought thought mountains FO: that "member He see. OCTOBER later at (Laughter) FO: NO. to for develop a the typical WILLIAM R. E@i: That's WG: Oh, GOULD quite when I I was four an going to months as reatE courses ranged primarily a of as I in a This four MERERSHNT an overview from it, of or those from your He I was guess, had a had on who the by the name a the us were hull. were is to of the then But, strong reigning of in guru Manning, professional naval little a on the to their primary dealt water. 108 It a instructor with was a the because in in years of his theoretical passage highly did taught of number faculty He Clyde," the of MIT had that fellow "Banks ship. the of auxiliaries propulsion marine the of imported fluid-- many was much which through was been which shipbuilding. EDO of hull, since people man had the the problem, Lewis, through part of emphasis we of architecture, through design the he we HinWmy swritt tent hilstory s lhe steel had was who reputation. hull the man, area Then be naval those us away Ehils mechanical to earlier in give plant. We us the Scotland, 1994 wonderment. to (©fF architecture naval in before, the job. fine did walked Manning, and plant you power took He ask engineers, in officer head from vibrations. C. my we structural fields. George what you mentioned their of aldiet the mechanical 28, now. e lMVESREE design OCTOBER assignment. shake perspective WG: 4 think sometimes GT: NO. of the specialized WILLIAM R. GOULD form of and fluid we most designing G&T: Tell me WG: this in that was did just bit of part and you outstanding time of in the that's a 1994 in this area. course general it, was in overview about interacting with that paid some skills developed there. learn road? that camaraderie that a wasn't there came that of Most course. the in content but course, that in day this of lot A friendships developed I later. come to to learn you Did time? people heavy little laboratory what the persist was 28, did. the Only a He destroyer, this at down off the Bill, people OCTOBER quite of we what 4 mechanics. spent Then, of NO. later. FO: WG: was It sounds the I'm maybe and great doubt G I E@:: Very wash. This thank you much for of that. would fruitful. sees that on it I But of course, back everything as wonderful. very that much. immensely "Pollyanna" a just looking But been. fruitful, word concentrated hectic. have could too and absolutely it Well, use crowded too It We've is very much. seen end the your of critical our interview much. END OF INTERVIEW 110/9 side, NO. 4 for that today won't and THE LAKE FOLLOWING CITY, THOMPSON FO: ON AND Bill, AN INTERVIEW NOVEMBER FLOYD this you, A. is number the last training at MIT, and so on. How leave; how did that Well, the wrap-up they post graduate take by And of done with up your finishing on the quality things by the at fact of MIT and that the the to their in the of end, of apprais- of round usual a in round usual the dispersal as an to came that people it study to engineers was s, Department Navy when That end. its the There was There have place? te of group general a was there then wrap-up ‘come’ end. we just dictated standing relative the were you had an series commenting process examinations. final ing did was at the were atmosphere. was course the you this wanted what one structured carefully was in "course’ "BUG. sehedulled five we WILLIAM R. GOULD, AT SALT 1994, CONDUCTED BY GREGORY C. INTERVIEW NO. 5. O'NEIL. in and WITH 18, and it WG: IS class, and to new group assignments. mentioned I period brief a was dalsEric Havall that effect the duty to sent he needed one. it some when EmpuEREn S Eron any course, indoctrination be written my who or I'm not," whether the sure but officer staff in that there the first MoRS heSadmitalliNanSorde ritEe change of had he undergoing not been needed order anyway 110 this about word officer naval district that in in it didn't that was to or say, the formal a not, would "whether effect of WILLIAM R. it. GOULD We NO. were because had a but we amdftbundled® designed for feeling among my we dence arrangement those So everything were know don't if FO: It does. Tell WG: In those days, There one was there were infrastructure limits had devoted the by been hundred several mentioned I around. a influx primarily undergraduate in little this of little sleepy to those was With course. I because o ot ook I Now, village college the years. i 1S of town. excellence They had was sudden all most of the stressed to its people, because it had been Hedechingi the Dartmouth of® a cascaded because shop number of all officers naval wvillage. little and town the barber the that in in shop barber of which adventure. a was Hanover least, at resi- Hanover. about me new a our question. your answers that a for and Hampshire, New of that. packed part, my lot wvicinity the enyeyedMillivEng S initheMBosttoniWazcaiwell Hanover, a for Hampshire, on sadness personal zealily sought indoctrination the general was we us, back- was dislike in of that and 1994 naval there married New Hanover, for in up, wives our and general 18, number coursel'that a who a up wonders." us in going of degree swept to..al for College were we of this, military were off closed and where of classmates, books, Dartmouth with bit "ninety-day Nevertheless some incensed quite already, erder® NOVEMBER highly we ground 5 a minimal graduate WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. and they school was rather from es, FO: WG: except that (Chuckle) I and enjoyed FO: Did Erlyn WG: She did, of of New a that led picturesque England villag- college so there. indoctri- military the times. because fascinating phase, learning the of a year four several it atmosphere rural a importantly, More immensely. the been Utah, in still was of had was tradition I part through been had I the and she was I enjoyed small New a farm was across the Connecticut occupied by an upstairs week. come home these husbands we If seven elderly So vacant. and or we to didn't the 1Lz farm River from oh, been, have would six the would other of completely wives navy two all was the you? and This maybe Hanover, we good University and it with Vermont. during a I where go that house many enrollment roads was 1994 town. England house It elementary. hat. in liwving just the distinguished because the at area an was this unlike history naval The not me, old was content was this school lined village. had The 18, there? to graduate ROTC it. the fretted was, of of it do I proud Dormitories It you did nation were center place. What NOVEMBER small. the little 5 and navy three the the state center This of farm the upstairs wives occupied inStheNdeornitonrics lived have in away. miles couple found duty house and on the from weekend, there we WILLIAM R. GOULD would NO. scatter sights. F@': Did you have WG: No, but several whose a So these places. Was WG: Yes, we gas of Of minimal mileage to more. have a gas grey corners my roommates were living at club up would was. four of the 18, 1994 compass to see car? just rationing it those the wives cars. E@ = NOVEMBER to the those 5 a problem course, to There coupons. market was I and we the typical that an it to out have to of lot black scrape have of a gave reason traffic market. them see there? rationing didn't a did together gas awful call managed go getting that just won't be including farmhouses, and know owners classmates, the to you car and in It was together. (Laughter) FO: It sounds WG: Oh yes, “ehe matter. that reduce could pay were to them such to access of G Just WG: Yes. the playing as army the budget army; the only and or there war, military the things it the During service. move officers, maval you'd (Laughter) around. 1S don't cards only navy the enlisted‘“men “for proposal a was at of ingenuity the least by the navy pay and have me. to experience American underestimate ever don't “and Havy like dice to and pay that we if we half issue but give one them branch WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. 5 NOVEMBER G 2 Ealicieaiiifediithelredilstreibutilon Y system: WG: That's FO: It also shows a hell why a line, side I ship never ship that because say I leave the ship it, even if long were you into reported in been just a little training there WG: Officers only. FO: Officers training WG: Yest FO: What did they end the in ego about that navy call we the of were dock its Just alongside the and as outfitting outfitting and hold, them. jeep a of a period, may just you would never over sixty days. parts. Dartmouth? was it Dartmouth the The on I little a "ninety-day expression with FO: when crane were at and September November a down it the heard You've we of underestimate jeep the remember I as a had find Well, lot later nearing disappear WG: a ever learned to was don't suddenly How of (Laughter) That's FO: 1994 right. bunch. WG: 18, the about detached was course being then over sixty days. was first the over. I know second week wonder." or week third So it must in have officers. school. that officers recall? 114 training school, do you WILLIAM WG: R. Ah, GOULD the NO. United 5 NOVEMBER States (Indoctrination), So WG: Yes, think Training that is School as of close 1994 Dartmouth as I can come s te FO: I Naval 18, it was really one of principal ¥es i E@) = Do in jest--one assure that naval combat the pulling into who had, indoctrination that states swim. to learned the reflection or were we but of all a not is That landlocked from that for was me, Tell evaluation? overall an there, partiofMEheNcourser iEhatf evaluation an have on went to vessels, wa sk exempt it reom you this seaworthiness the never program? swim? could WG: was people enough, curiously say (Laughter) naval of lot it in the of a navy You of confidence worthiness FO: principal--I swim. could the the indoctrination purposes officers of the an it necessary? WG: We BT donl EE ik previous military was. you Now, active duty at I had training. vard in the to have Island stay brief outfitting of aLals the it was as and afloat ships there were who people that gun necessary a naval service a full summer's in addition to at the know remember Mare a to had they think I thing. on think I ships merchant on crews assignments general at looking the For training. SoENthie 'easeNbecause Smys SwalsEFiin e what that the I had my ROTC Philadelphia Navy South Dakota, and I felt WILLIAM R. GOULD that this several an NO. areas that if I communication would gone FO: Do to that No, University of at the time--was they places they Following WG: I was in ordered Pedro, San saw with fit the to the a I of had navy folkways building than who of there its is me I it think fondness with in profes- were who the know So twilight. looked at tradition the didn't we people generally Here trained in steeped The equal. if plus. folkway. soldiers enter officer, the navy which--although to and service? different well learned amount conscious the As Signaling and was enjoy one. experience there, in for have certain that horse fields, at been. had your a 1994 did engineer my more of were about those in a the about were sional FO: is service, mounted is system artillery the was and there it Utah, of that me an from transmitted branches But drawn horse There not Dartmouth. Being omitted that other would 18, I me--navigation to another. knowledge don't. to gone been superfluous. probably interested the I new I was suppose within WG: was that folk little were Dartmouth. always you a hadn't have tradition have was officer navigation not NOVEMBER course engineer those 5 to to report training I me. I the for California, assign Dartmouth, at experience think had S8 of supervisor duty such the general received at did where as go? shipbuilding supervisor the belief MIT you I was would that be WILLIAM R. GOULD assigned NO. to a 5 NOVEMBER billet involving construction 18, or 1994 repair of ships. The supervisor office. areas to They of the had the country vessels and the function the one ready ever you WG: Only briefly. took a much experience. my first ride California look a Bl FO: Were the Los to EalEEie you San a* Pedro railroad Angeles half was almost like by train Al 7 in Ord pass and office and programs me with horse a as permitted just to iSeo give spent I area. really somewhere days? me Salinas, to €ime. going parents leave thence those was my and EainEe transported That before? Fort that at properly Diego. metropolitan there were they those trained, be to naval combat. to and Angeles going was I a¥dayand allv'gE" going at Los through where a me got father to went I When building didn't That there. vacation family naval were old years six was I When for building San to several oversight that California southern in been Had for unique in had they ship Barbara Santa navy oversight gave Pedro FO: soldier supervisor the of roughly, oh from, and sea a giving assure to not were shipyards wanted for of the that San in that was offices purpose specifications: ready operational, the these programs navy the navy to built me for private of lot A shipbuilding established construction vessels. to of for WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD Yes, if gas you an 5 had rationing have NOVEMBER an I coupons wrote in Often when at the a called memoir they allow to would do time, it by and so car. we "Great Diagonal." military personnel, what they called the did not traveled the little 1994 you I in a 18, give journey transferred would they order that piece that the delay by en I Navy route. isuright.. WG: ThaEsy E@ = Did WG: Something FO: They WG: NoSActEmallliyswhats never were a little country see those eastern because never that FO: Would WG: Fhatd! FO: Your WG: ese E@: So then to the be seright, awful was it took fairly Washington that may he I (Chuckle) So coincided with well. 19422 here lived the that know I the West Coast. as nonexistent. 118 as well through down train Now, almost out worked that here s topaan 1942. area. in days Thanksgiving, family wife's you so and Thanksgiving metropolises. three about had probably felt Utah from boy t o in day extra an and York it sed i tha s Tadbid New in day (Chuckle) generous. terribly City? think. I days, five like Lake Salt in stop to route en delay a get you extra It in describe Department WG: automobile, automobile train. FO: NO. in '42 yours? Las housing Vegas was and on bloody WILLIAM R. GOULD FO: What did WG: Well, we my you 5 the and ette and bath from San Pedro, the little night in Long but with Beach. there two apartment found was an 18, 1994 ten holed spent relative a to up kitchen- twelve car first miles that first our of miserable bed, interurban we and a fold-down It So with we a was places. room or thereafter apartment two one first shortly one-room between NOVEMBER do? spent wife, little NO. ran in that Christmas there. Then maybe home my wife one She along was night, was room, and house that for almest FO: Oh, my WG: Which March, and she She we had had found were we occupy. And ‘a half years: I was and immensely WG: MesE FO: I've WG: It time the FO: Yes, took never you heard unheard was I a house a I to house but occupied or came rent. in Long dining it was that house of ship- goodness. was that So because small with the supervisor building. GT: lucky, kitchen, house, rooms The room. tour that bedroom two could we were resourceful, said right. a was living we immensely absolutely which Beach about never through the war. case like of-- of. heard of a A8[8C) that. a WILLIAM WG: R. My GOULD fellow and NO. naval whatnot (Chuckle) at how 5 NOVEMBER officers referred If I small drive it GiE: When you look me that But you that you were WG: sea. on place on that I felt a shore or Two stead. for tor, or go In fact who who to a your head people it should period that there remained you ask o year half all of of every the captain tricks) shipbuilding encouragement? 15210 he to and of knew get go at ought an to go advanced engineer-construc- same the for trick ship an as trade, a was really combat a to ship repair I thought I my stand good in me not one in time of period ships the loved I because a having of prospect would officer. With married my siigh lengthy a either there pulled knew supervisor Gilti shake probably that navy times three plying the base man I gentry." Btop edtchit the at station professionally ships today, a and fact the in career permanent and "landed newly wan four looking was I yes. Oh amazement, concern? you cause two TS the did there, the period--I that over look as 1994 luxury. EhsHamSii=Eilleila FeisillouE When disbelief, house for ef over their to by is. wasprealtiliysthellillap in 18, me with purpose. one of (and he the was dislodged him as his repair academy from the repair WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD Yes. NO. However, captain who NOVEMBER the supervisor outranked fteld" me discharged this station, from e Wl compliment an The the captain taking G- EilloydMSE St hinle FO: NG, job Wl NG was "In and was, from you building before I am is, also put back could that advanced an at better. little a was that looking thing you came out for my wife and to me was this HaEiE SAoulE if happened ever it But life day thbdis S walsh but affection my the SyelilEes games and fun that o F e JL BRIl slelaie . WERIEEE, JIneN] B there. down of Manner e pilcce Speaking." But just a job called It was kind given Officer." effort the main might say, by to of getting oversee individual a2l the ship the and the "Progress, of ships to wrote answer to progress Il SthaEth IntEhbisMfitc was I Contracts programs ship vour et directly, question aside a day best repair With aS crnibethat called, the position. that eull am had. years be thing T there those in the before doing the of a day that have was commander SuntEslE s may I 1994 VThe or probably whole. best family, first been could ship hide (clhEEs had The miserable. your net because the whatever; Fand’ was it me combat Trials I or 18, shipbuilding ‘flatly,’" ambitions any to was with what life my happen base to to end over detached, de Ealehftyeou of (Laughter) repair®shipifiHe transferred, WG: 5 of set being built. the report It ship their WILLIAM R. GOULD status to called the the "RFS" the and keep its completion where and contracts under trials what ly might way I had at used to time period that was three, like to to was to to we That oversee respect to handle the were and any individual built, largely a go to twenty-four, compressing ten in almost trial. to part part for was we that a very For kind of to be was there short and compressed we had a week every every saw that plant The systems. and I you what be to the when because bound every be to out me, mechanisms primari- was almost turned That fifteen L2 dominant sea at was who someone twenty-five or the I was it saw things? and I and of assignment career power marine sea contracts their it to the there out, in because became went and tub. a you kind progress naval my we that on trials. phrase a mean my of ships "bugs" sea, Sea." with 1994 what for also made hands from sea in new with I stood was ships it The kind call trouble I ultimately It with thing those took the of doing. some with greatest were with did. concerned week "Ready ship that stripped later were each trials. part was I forecast assignment. sea trials the of also meant the which We 18, job. pushing ultimately "RFS" of changes It Ships. of records the of part contract Did NOVEMBER date. central attended WG: 5 Bureau was paper FO: NO. years years old into new was it those ship twentywas just years. WILLIAM R. GOULD When the NO. war engineering FO: I WG: Curiously ST EcdEomEE but they of set of companies there? Kaiser commer- several California example, like sponsors several building were They others. were merchant ships. the war. eNnows, other ship distinct from as vessels naval S oM tizang were There in monument national shilpEEENllo olds included later Building Dry and L.A. Ship over by Todd Shipyards, Western Pipe and taken others. and Steel, Bethlehem building These were who during a as has built they ships the of aside vile oy great were who shipyards? FO: What WG: Todd, T-o-d-d. which was steel any ahead the but se, per conglomerate one civilian years Was there. For enough, HsHa builders a light contracting, the several the 1994 age. same and into just companies. recently been Dock, went 18, ships. merchant just a Bechtel, Kaiser, was Kaiser, Not was Building Ship I ships the building ship cial I about you there. was Kaiser and the of building were that over market peers ask to want NOVEMBER was job my of most 5 a smaller builder hastily in supplier number of ships. also formed Los smaller Bethlehem They were 5298 a corporation, central other crafts. of was There Angeles. yards subsidiary of the there And parent of were building were however, Steel, part ithat Steel, was a large company OF WILLIAM R. GOULD Bethlehem NO. in ing. They peace of it at FO: EhelSreputathiiontle to build Pedro to had ashal physicals the to time somewhat different who were that and they destroyers; and argument that would a of the ship given built would make the original forth and the executing 124 So program contract This beginning. between contracts them. class. This and bela accumulated the was back to building ship the sent be thexenhadgte fand that. in alter- ship "alts", ships because fault, navy's accommodate administering were the be was a or seilldomiSsiisvatye i inisiEs hewship)l it that? vessel naval the than just were They would to in Some Eiime sl Ehe there follow-on changelin amendments of ship factored contract lot build- experience you a for was that them amendment by So ship coast SIS th ot Did contract experience the be they contract did cockamamie. up. came of Part building people manufacturer contracts? the with were called we ations, yards east original what combat on based also the AEBHIlNT SN to form. original nel on HeEnavailisve ssellisiweiilidi greup a war, Nt individual The as steel 1994 it. of job the in inappropriate to San primary 18, yes. Oh (Chuckle) Yes. most yard WG: WG: a well difficulty have contracts was as good a did you Did a which time, did established EH@ NOVEMBER Steel, which they 5 look led navy person- the civilian would sometimes WILLIAM R. GOULD reach Los NO. NOVEMBER confrontation Angeles point of larger and conflict. Shipbuilding a ultimately the 5 and congressional seized role the than wvirtue of I Dry one case, Dock, it investigation. yard. should the In In that have, faet that had been I that of the government process my 1994 reached The given 18, I age, played because the a of contracts efficemnr, ihierelisiancchciaNlbiictilleMofEFshootN bit of paid humor progress tracts were There of and it. The because most mutation of cost be progress in payments a would adventure progress and full the of these would wartime contract made upon hatNnas contractor plus payments payment ot at the e be con- system. various points completion of the when the ship. One of such payments would be due a push always was There trials. sea its completed ship progress on thelpartNot s theNeciviiltaniicontractoritolge th thelshilpialE as trials for sea contract payment. pressure on I can cutter; it remember the in the trial the early Sometimes naval the was class. earlier Owasco individual In any than it Class ship. event, involved cutter it. PlERSERE e AnihE ships thirteen of them was been in Guard were have unusual Coast of There one should 5245 class one was that get and strange were that personnel there recall put they could he so possible as brought because to the WILLIAM R. GOULD contractor deitit. NO. 5 put 1" NOVEMBER pressure happened machinery plant, te day for 'but this I enveloped debate to to in out, a us but the point ‘heard ‘you point came, the going to the decision We we take had tested no the telegraph open area fog. dock as ship to was not as goingi beyond the never Gt grateful the of 126 little it try should persuaded our went. that roadstead we had respond to kind. and We got the little a proceeds Eo right, "All that When "We're said, with agree didn't we roadstead some as had us less that harbor this." us ship about should says, do to Moreover, working. at question the of the down the Noth the we had lot A sea." things the out. among officer senior was ready eventually butiwe 're of was thelmilitary in a'debate ability I to things eharge whether debated and somebody but the found There ship to of morning I the radar and out, take nicely went ship that contractor it all officer. the where officers charge Swastint somehow there in and [ yard dense the knew 'you bit), plant, the the the to stood We T've on officer senior person senior 1994 (Laughter) in very But the the seniocr on. take because been. the' arrived among go have later o'clock of foniFalitniailis wasn't fact When seven T be one propulsion thatreal liyiceunted that on 18, morning, but never really the bridge to out dnitoMERe anti-submarine WILLIAM R. GOULD nets NO. were 5 NOVEMBER opened for us. Spacepdiandithenfinst from the bridge Well, to what collection of go of those that I had been bell happened going in up looming ships of gates were we a merchant What specdMeame dMEor N fuilN b cilllistha W cailllilc a the of night. merchant got mostly sudden a machinery there but the 1994 astern. outside of all the that full navy during fog in was was some nets ScolthElis the N Eoai down knew accumulated one toward straight I happened had that in that was was immediately shipping, anti-submarine the thing had that shipping, I 18, down. ship electric-drive properly functioning What a lot of relays in sequence. But promptly we in the heavy fog. go to bell a got and it tried we in the full ahead Then took it. went astern might surmise more, but the position, got we and she again we next got bell a one bell to was 24, to them. like were the ship put miracle of miracles go it. go full astern much. again Thereafter, ahead. We a We we took too just Well, see. and were the in ourselves between forth couldn't We we and ships and back going found had we that merchant these ball billiard was on was happened all of nest It ahead. speed full it. depended Then an take and worked. it miraculously could ship the sure wasn't I and as did she we you once WILLIAM R. GOULD We got an dropped out and and put a through. in When I the in the the she up I that cutter as out of grew senior FO: These WG: Oh and deck on this TWR lead into deep stupid, the to stupid officer who had the only left topside to of the bow the the in and topside. in bend me basis went I deck. it tanker. But can remember I glad "I'm not I'm (Laughter) investigations. at you ordered day. that all go to stupid, was it that say fully wasn't that again out there out be to gone saying, can I radar. had and operating had cutter (Chuckle) mandatory today." ship a took never guard was situation. contract a a hole this as well on nice a put We'd coast secured engine the officer we truck there Everybody the always a knocked and there on yes, Did stay there standing drive pirouette. was around space. damage. little all to I relay could and space a tanker her a somewhere 1994 a little did 18, rammed that end NOVEMBER We process got the it. you looked assess take that had we and it machinery When again wouldn't in on bell machinery got crew astern the stood Down 5 hole In almost E@: NO. out receive a reprimand? WG: I have didn't certain and his he did. rank direct In were fact, I have immediately were. 128 it, but I'm quite feeling that his career of knowledge a frozen right where they WILLIAM R. GOULD FO: Did the WG: No, because hit the NO. 5 tanker the bow The WG: pesk FO: So that WG: We hit of a merchant as I remember so the the you it Bukhithe that in on GT: Was it a WG: es B How WG: I it had line. they a rake Also, would not to all it, we ships sink on are just a it's water integrity was could that hole, one seal heavy we the water is loaded. But destroyed the it had particular it off that iwalsh one line compartment. cllosedtolirepasis compartment and was tanker? the water FO: How lucky can WG: San Pedro at receiving lost was there think were the how see that. oil in on You Wsink SRRl sef i commercial much at of didnt e it it? line. depends looking and saved where...? ship Vshilp' get don't hit above facilities They cutter water compartmentalization watertight GT: 1994 rupture. FO: a of above compartmented, high 18, sink? tanker single NOVEMBER and the into much very not laden. you get? that time was a to get ©nllE: in LS because the tanker Because you see- loading point. coming sea? point for oil, not WILLIAM WG: FO: WG: R. GOULD NO. Right. In became receiving later primarily a Bill, did your your later very tor Again, a by here WG: I I I been .of E@: Yes, WG: It and was there was have that was harbor pilot a naval Even those areas days it help you was on was in I am and buyer a lot them was the ships about the business that the many inquiry I in very, a they contracI built. end of not the the have business occupation. that about think don't are you Were moment. a for being would years the is that civilian one other I of for to called. both It case routine an director. this in in a I in just a morning collision? really needed a witnesses. it should contiguous contracts this many, testify not as been to lot those firm The had called was in construction back I but components and go No. oil, which learned me Let of another until had its with recently firm engineering if and for dealing supplied learned Pedro 1994 point. companies. that San points As out old years 18, career? with bought NOVEMBER loading Absolutely. phone FO: 5 you. before the blown the to get In pilot. the down usually 1310 that on those The years and harbor who experience, little roadstead did. person other one is There whistle harbor vessel forward. straight pretty we out pilot used to a sea. should WILLIAM R. have to GOULD NO. said, blow "Look the GT: BuedadnE . WG: We see 5 NOVEMBER boys, whistle here the I'm on power not not going." taking of the He the had the ship contract 18, 1994 ability out. and the not in progress payment. FO: Of course and everybody created from a in great War the shipyard WG: Los Angeles FO: Was the WG: I amount and before they did that have have given don't they done he at could During coal the for war, the prime thing example. of all have been a which higher given have know What I'm warnings and echelons. But warnings to this contractor, bad as some of was as the my steel father mill was in s because I When I others. corporate entity. in Angeles frying, that could they the involved Los because impression it. a just contractor the stern little been have with an is the gayeihe, "SI iniseterringito FO: a first could there didn't I and may it this But it. stern think as Dry-dock. dropping" shoe happened that may a and deadline that given war justified? maybe think I "first they know shipyard, however, think, I so. is we just and takeover more saying a a conceivable waste, Shipbuilding federal of every you've of you're it? little most of takeover handed. high against II, was think things--when running World Now, those cooking built the WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. victory ships, quality of 5 NOVEMBER and the we kept victory hearing ships. stories Were 18, about those 1994 the rumors low justi- fied? WG: Well, I I didn't FO: There WG: In later years, as program troubles in naval personnel there was FO: Citvii lNiftan WG: Yes. Okay. WG: When have mark people who trials but were in that they impression "ready their meeting think because the even though observe here, show, the ran I fact, In supervised. did sea" navy the in had we that for problems. quality have been by saying that million, currency was, in the reason. This is as that Cheops building old as 1532 of the pyramid one brick out from of Egyptian ancient the piling done we wanted far be not probably was when sea at contractor would I whatever of several the because think I were we clearly there, to like would T trailaili tanker, the I thing thiat payment. progress the on management. another is rammed shouldn't a sea contracEreherer There we to war." the about just lletistigotbaeck it o FO: out heavily was civilian a to than more had program navy the the did they meant probably they won got I This dates. them talking civilians, their have of that. of doubt no is any "They this, say will take for on the top same of WILLIAM R. GOULD another. done NO. You in can history aqueduetsh FO: Ehils! the one lengtime,: bUE magnitude. They take on 'had had been And lack made ships II, using to able that it's not sea we or on did that apology. we were littie for doing in companies or capital the jobs or required to point of effort we material to repair little Ethis of anything a for business in been Dry-deck), and Building handling I've were near of lack of money. in the war now, never had Gould. Bill Gould we did we ran mentioned. 15318 it's and before, that the providing who as a they people well as were were they what of we trial surprising difficulties an minuscule deme never Remember Bill including before, a without had because simply war the fight Roman behavior. what Ship: that meant War World in I've jobs. personnel. of reading systems. their magnitude probably human 1994 alse not' using over, they construction sheer is 18, building were that Angelles taken was on and run little contractors overnight huge Los what This Bill, creating Exue. that the Roman behavioeoxr. really to from Sehe | lilke' partly, non-performance WG: the became is Yes, see observation was suddenly Oh,: an II War little FO: their it management WG: easily that just isn't World who dn| it's Well NOVEMBER wallisiand nefaxdous, it, 5 in the into had done this never taken remark- really aggregate. some of But these WILLIAM FO: R. GOULD Bill, I NO. want intense to and dedicated. 5 ask Did running around Most of the into any you get it I wish that I time when kind of that flow now and the were that in I lived in big as that believe could nation it so many and I fired we also it Harbor ours as there would again would come show we ago years last thought at only true. sailed our job to was meet the done, but to fight the war again, we're back again, This time is win the war that wasn't won. last time. were its York New but Pearl after such. thought who well, that as immediately fights people run donel" (Laughter) This time we will not say we ring it down in their We didn't cohesion. Not if a remember impression the "Let's was, Oh, the I I weeks the well so people cohesive so was so fast? glad and war. too I'm isolationists away carried that street the simply identify had when of was were can we in be to I 1994 deliberately ineptness. that remember I and were much country the who of progeny war case too errors my when war the the do sabotage objective. between to a 18, Everybody the people this were to time preceding into trying question. winning was errors a national ought run deliberate through special on or commented have I a intent obstructionist, WG: NOVEMBER with that. 134 'till "curtain" own hometown! a that WILLIAM FO: Oh R. yes, good GOULD I NO. 5 remember stopping NOVEMBER it place. END OF so well. Thank you INTERVIEW 1125 think Bill, I for this NO. 5 18, this interview. 1994 is a THE FOLLOWING IS AN INTERVIEW LAKE FEBRUARY A. THE GT 2 CITY, ON O'NEIL ARE Bill, an when during All stopped of that yourself WG: 1, 1995. INTERVIEWERS. we overview your the and that summer of M.I.T. for and navy 'return I 1946, a Marine can I full year was course my continued to be I that for where you went the navy for myself had I we you felt in was officer in the navy best educational background you can the return taken you're to going should have this and the This essential you get to Architecture if engineering In wartime. because--well, had minute it. to quite an a 1942, during you there. just Naval with separated from from earlier, given ended that scheduled in AT SALT AND FLOYD 6. career how was career NO. the course something naval THOMPSON us ‘to Engineering. full and GOULD believe tentatively two course I separate was abbreviated the years Describe from so time R. C. INTERVIEW last war WILLIAM GREGORY period. right " Let"s then, WITH was iLiEe scheduled to going proved to under for use preempt be the icebreaker, area. Angeles Los the in tion Pole an finishing about the the by it detachment my which was This icebreaker command of the to go construc- had navy to make expedition to the Byrd. this concerned order in Admiral 136 under but guard coast surface was Ships temporarily last to of Bureau the approached, school for time the as However, been was what South WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. Since I was asked S ERMSIESI I S on earlier defer N thilist the eniE did just agreed to this, were the people including me, had a show significantly that important. not the case. those who were to of new sailed for to commitments moved a onto long I me not have attend the course. time, that in was not like or fact Well, on it. two weeks, 1837 retired. year I the they can dEMsjusE then made had year had a lot were boat about I I and me who the list the to There found I on thought (Chuckle) for to ordered me that was Shipyard previous the was 1947 there people the that @ 18Vl S upsetting Washington simple The time, did assignments other faces. and by But it. appealed They that entered of S Decause’ back quite on something the in got course, of was, This nothing notation I when was worked being IUTC oML all Naval later that schooling unfortunately E e WA P 7NN I'm I the summer Boston type, then done the NI "Well Well, was that the so f over river. the to Shipyard Naval across go thought, "transterme JuSE’ the to naturally I Boston of orders ol the 1995 go who had Then of There proper they peontNy st n M allongiabelER duty. oral. 1, this and but and to of starting that record received ships N lcebrealcer, agreements g their was I and icebreaker, in would i nalsh arrangements We worked year. EnwET Bl FEBRUARY had if Eollowing 6 had this decided WILLIAM R. GOULD Ehat, i went out NO. would 6 FEBRUARY have into better civilian life. FO: Do you remember when WG: It was probably mid-June. RO - HE@E 1946 WG: No, 1947. into This the resigning in commission who the the was my I commission. to immediately talk navy the previous reserve navy, resign that about was not it, because James Secretary who of had the like accept and honor E. trans- not did they if would he brought easy. officers that on later officer any each on different dant as he seven I was I knew on a to tried seniority cinch lead-pipe that persuade was a list to me the at of make persuasion 15818 did this did they to were they and while for a was to and transfer reserve. stay to my rank. the next stay in. I was There in. I was higher There hour comman- the by and time, an about of interviewed was I effect sessions several sitting board the days in naval the to for event, In What didn't. they resigning selection They commitment. his honoring still was policy position. that left had Forestall James the However the been I the regular to resigned if resignations. Well, then had promised chose their 1947. a into and it now I career-wise 1995 resigned? office had ferred you So commandant's Forestall, Navy, is oppertunity 1, was a number tolldBEheaE rank, were and even WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. mutterings course party more I The to and curious I stay have personal I could was my going advice. Get out. engineer's Get star is yeuscantdotbetternnEettiout I said, "Well, there I'm for up make selection rank of on the selection "Right now we do have any excuse over for that for the iRt oaepant sef interest at was you heart. you the the third said, or "All persuade you bit you can! the outside they He but and can 45319 for I'm He of You're was he find and really said, also and going "I told me." admirals than paused and to then - 18 satiid,Rste quite Sisuze a He using I to have they're He my me not has and THm He said, olyouEoon ! submitted accepted. change?" captains interviews I to outside. little sitting promotion." §thelh a on know?" board, advice." So rising admiral SatldMRIEh Rt imemwi i comeMt thank it the to while why more and use you "How about captain you out been the tried give had about was have board rear said, can pass a I thought after 1995 youlintesthe But on 1, It Captain, I classmate we is the it." said, "Well, I who to I'm fit better that I can year." do duty, Now the we longer commandant, done in. the thing the maybe following that session right, the before thought right, "Well, M.I.T. that FEBRUARY about, at forth 6 fatherly “hiesthad resignation and Smy, it WILLIAM R. GOULD I NO. then arrived of So west in anniversary was time the while accepted in July 24th. WG: By July 24th. GT: K947 . WG: HgAESSChrileusliy S FO: and life that it. But Did you with Mormon my be the idle doing the June, it civilian in didn't I do it. left the Depression and you as trepidation upimy; doggone so do didn't I 100th civilian--- long. too that a I became was lie in I in of " picking but 1995 remember of as Hntent 1, pioneers here I or fear I resignation to regretted any have the what papers never I've of me City. observation reserve, naval the let the for fascinated I for Lake hadWevery the in commission Salt submitted time By to arrival I FO: busy FEBRUARY came here valley. 6 navy? WG: were jobs toddlers, just for send to commission that T to hard and Here I was my wife and Salt knew here in them to come west headed a job. the of Lake City to Boston. without any I the one of it in the navy it was family children, waiting shred was It small very two my and Boston in for resigned of me my certainty boldest things (chuekle) leveriidid. quite get. was get I would I child of consisted which a was I Remember, yes. Oh I familiar make could to me and 140 old hat. because I knew that that was my WILLIAM R. only FO: GOULD NO. 6 obstacles al. But not know. Well, FEBRUARY would make it in So it was and we naturally and with institutional civilian a life? worse I times therefore it. and not did Tell us how World was you know, I did time. after there 1995 profession- not stomach-wrenching expected came associated be 1, a went War lot II of about than trauma finding a job? WG: el the beFegre first that an I Wi llefeithe” week was that assigned assistant design navy, I was as an Wint in fact Vithwas), Boston--And assistant superintendent planning there--I JiNNduE S Bu s duringaEhat i EinsEwe el PapeEsetEof thclis A whose gave side while Steel was Power, I I had product they Utah that firm a me of one I collater- diithie had known learned used, the for my assignment, a job major contacted of of them. the of Utah. navy and presence here and on the which of their in the in several employers both 141 at year became I state was I when were who the in not did area time the at wouldn't twenty-seven to people to think consulting looked I was engineer professional youngest and had that license a it I above. or officer probably in record gave Mostly engineers. thirties say submiiEt e it that told was track they that indicate old I the because come should tateNofMiEahfforNamlicenselaslalpreo e ss engineer. sional I INguess) I did places. Geneva engineers. Also, They were mulling WILLIAM R. GOULD over my field NO. Supply The captain's the captain. said, "Mr. you're going in After yjelthexe accepting a be to have are civilian?" I all and some a badly ship, been to sea at Clearfield July I could Steel had offered after the things experience see me me I'd during until six months. a he's was but job, This done. the of end job the war in now that I'll look wind up and anyone here Pacific them. Some his 142 was was my that knows worked an thirties Staideme big there from During that Geneva of a job problem. I had much engineer of and job a nowhere. not a have don't would December. it them of and I going we who's accepted I and somebody ship, a parts spare the need I basis the that and staying by "Well, over" for out to have on said, I So until see going andmehatNecentainiys "tide worked of of I on end in not. Ehinglteordeo, do consider are at." looking came "Well, inundated being inventory a into (Laughter) and on jacket said, don't Clearout. to Iimi 1995 mustered going you catalog been and 1, the captain think "Would are "We says, I bases he's usually I ship." a So time you Clearfield? over." the are at seen off the advanced actually Better moments Utah,sbut into qualifications the labeled what paid said, from back coming a reported be He job he And few I my what in ever has to took a Gould, to when Depot yeoman California." who FEBRUARY qualifications Naval Bgrwa 6 doesn't forties. Same WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. way with Utah not much of I though Utah I in the work history was just a were time One or that for a It was oh, 2:30 in I and would had about I was it guess that, there no problem. Bountiful, before A.M. they a in Bill Since along little At G.I. of Even bankers that bit house night, a the loan it I a was knock WandittRwasitheNnk glit itwent®toMtheNdeoonr, theldeor- 1995 house. the street. little maybe house. a the a Bill, ignoring made a qualified. buying G.I. off buy thing. in the this to over 1, offered. almost Utah, tiny was trouble under trying down they anybody in I requirements of Thanksgiving Light. having same required o that days have bedded job qualified applying was & also those I FEBRUARY Power a was 6 marshall. I no had in install telegram a have you that you to it occur to you didn't think of that." did So I out got new six inches of was really the telegram. said that It Edison to marshall, tell me, you?" I "No, (Laughter) and bed a friend Company 143 of I There station. mine was in going shoes station, the to up some on pulled walked snow from slow with down it bring interurban was the of "Well, said, I days. those station." were telephones because telephone railroad the at up tell to here down came "I says, marshall night The and in which up the California who picked threuglh W thils WILLIAM R. GOULD frequency Was a I 6 FEBRUARY change. They interested in hold I did. the I Ehat, job a .k A job it went, someone in with my California? I would there to gloves and I people in often had thought of make this to charge of 1995 experience. If so, send walked to and in and lunch I shoulder." the from sight. By he I said, that said He I off before now doctor me, to time, he can read Hels HEveuSwanErS In those had the 144 days blood I had said he the mind." had. I to go over my second "The the in get ready said, I who and his sign that you when He ever I about He hat fellow Let's changes just "Read line." "I bottom "No." was and minions medical quickest because years spot. his he in president medical. to up him the the of guess. preparation vice on December suit later event me one to a no the I "We'll us." unique in In any hired said, job to of them. and was talk little card. in "Which said, the on But the the found bottom." print kidding." was that Well, right done a dress turned take better exam medical for a said, sixth to been and and or talk decision He down calling that. mine. "You said, to scruffy back fifth have engineering. was job the get apply a right the there carrying hired can about down in came you was society walked letter until think today's ers needed 1, letter. So I NO. manufactur- atitdiliVeoulise very pressure good cuff on eye me WILLIAM R. and was have He GOULD NO. taking your a I an regular." the navy said, as kid, FO: I for the I still want hired WG: to stop in current and of hemisphere, eastern hemisphere started out Gradually Fastmlarge program was an cycle they underway an been be much 1995 did you months gl "I was being enlisted man?" reserve?" little of "No, I was discharged before, wrong January and for from because with you, the is In or something on sixty convert sto at the 145 of at But we country to - he the years career. you were current most of the most of the industry from everything Edison was the and that hired. Most cycles was fifty. of excess I the times of the when cycles. that good number and (o . sixty time to Emeritus Bill, least had in went electricity. cycle, fifty. I their pretty certain a sixty on as alternating world, on is phase cycle will a 1948, forty-seven moment. in yes. now was one change in there thought settled uealbity you had office I this in six said, a Company, here western twenty-five day frequency, Most second. "When I a 1, (Laughter) what voltage you can't fifth implement "Were "Were there Edison had to occasion?" officer have said, "About apparently over." the I Change a is on Chairman. man He said, navy." medical So, later I officer." a "Hell pressure. the the This examination work was from was blood physical?" "What discharged FEBRUARY my last said, "No, 6 WILLIAM R. of GOULD the NO. work system been motors, to stations were cycle. It or at E©: A what? WG: Steam I in the station. It estimated eighteen Southern my liking. ahead of Eora thessjob, (Ears You were WG: I was vice to be generating were had only still 1ZaLic e a steam few generations I find a as was the steam scene job I offered assistant I was an eighteen over, they stations. in permanent month the the industrial more and experi- lasting that the budget at job, figured around generating to was me a superinten- quite young took M can called where supervise company I change to But under and steam twenty-nine. me seventeenth the DUt hired temporary and by department, the steam look twenty-nine frequency But the a months. the in president frequency of turbine probably When all the equipment ; because they the California job permanent dent in schedule of But navy was could in we of was they that 1995 that cycles. matter, end customer else sixty units. change I customer 1, time. frequency months the modifying fortuitous that had at another generating ence to on anything operate was units done amounted sensitive few FEBRUARY had which clocks, 6 Bill? remember still me in to being was I then was hired, 146 talk done but to by the it. The me about the operating k=Rl engineering operating vice WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. president he old I FO: I want of WG: we we wash wasn't as might able to about my S FtRty moment the ciga- both the his desk this one on on the think served we that of one had differently. highly a to frequency would mean. The other the of subject Southern why everything, wander reason two o't iSouthiNAmeniical it Nof for 147 that thing world. the in systems most In three cycles that we from on me had conEBel! to apparatus was let time of period and industry highly--wait very band. that factor big a was picture that or thought ey cilieisy sttemiisiincerailil developed narrow We and cycle fifty a predecessors. sophisticated very system large as exist motion For very a unknown were it was there developed cycle said, stuck. doing at were We be talking I'm We frequency it head I he explain usually first why. we though this. this We to a to 1995 job. when up his going just new dropped put anyway, for the being He titEy®eyclefandipart Then say lighter he I But YexistWasial might because am change. you Now Bureope in cigarette the and you tell thought system. a this 1, last? I'll Well, how with as they were lighter frequency California about "Twenty-nine." the stay talk had (Laughter) to the He "Jesus, upstairs." to lighting you?" and said, in just ‘said,” cigarette and me was are rette FEBRUARY called remember "How 6 the the tele sixty motion WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. 6 picture customer perfect in FEBRUARY end, order the to frequency had synchronize the to 1, be voice 1995 almost and the the old picture. As motion was I understood picture, not in reason world upside G that the large all the Do foolish was But systems maybe end we could the and coming was think I of all island. an as to have would they customers. interconnecting of day the turn to because exist that coming could. that the because For equipment our for today, were we possibly we is track. going was but us it be frequency. same your in think you to up as here it for in sensitive Now, as long track visual very and only cycle fifty the them. cycles right hope was Europe some as voice digitalized be Not just it was there was as to down. delayed it frame sixty to to the synchronize go along We same had to developed before the there it, company the did mind, too wait long orNdiidethey ——72 WG: the a were the too, of we They war. and waited they Los municipal problem customer before city The war. They were, clearly very Well, so it had been had system. Rliev and they much, much got by cycles. tihaveRche their smaller easy. caught fifty dildni made had relatively 148 and long Angeles were was too change than we WILLIAM R. GOULD We it, had but made was been earlier. WG: Well, got it a of in thinle about There machine just net I back of wouldn't did an the The so many, task would have it for the engineering the with and Electric General T T sigh’ when| that they hadn't (Sigh)s nature. The larger collaboration in do Bill? by done been to wus. engineering equipment, ‘that than II 1995 Production much you Company the caught a war respect. \of that was a quite as little want million to resident bit This go for dollars through 149 it the was The the job on the that again at almost a were cracks. engineer design, of sometimes. envelope a the There again. through dropped out industrial our get once motion in that things to trying were postwar come just We engineers. was it thing one for of lot country this things many well, a we and take wouldn't became to had War available. assignment Edison of it World and not after units have of result So it because, war lot a site I were of, in just to 1, it. didn't the of came this the of companies! we along to those ether and II was around manufacturers thought prior available. was department the decision challenging it changes the War not we Was FEBRUARY equipment when GT: 6 World required space NO. I challenge. experience, either. but WILLIAM HE R. GOULD Was the NO. 6 FEBRUARY greatest challenge in changing the 1, 1995 generation plants? WG: Well, I and don't naturally largest part sticky of because would the in the sensitive problems, they Was scale maybe the been accustomed A ent except land-based ship. in today on those days turbine on board larger. spread was it around with the out. the same But out. to and I a different steam propulsion and You power had see they had those were you more plant's components, hired. L5 mostly of I space and structure. which almost is board unknown diesel. But in boilers, and equipment, ashore it shore On compact. more on had had differ- plant went you what little You pertinent When was are steam. the all propulsion are mostly it who than very plants which smaller. ship others real Well, is were some Ehe mastodon. plant a Swas it. terribly from was Usually rebuild plants it didn't generating was board there career? condensers On think industry worked ships it Certainily naval they ship generation your steam modern movie in size Now, I described to the that. but trying engineering No. a I've saw equipment. were than I think job, frequency guess WG: I problems smaller FO: know, was it you could scatter But I was dealing probably why I was WILLIAM R. GOULD Our had was up the sudden Surely. WG: I build. Those of that kind, want to out company, their who own of now ends on up with the while of and hydro that with of want we evielsyEhaine people many and steam little tag didn't them that steam in the nasty job change. were who worst But who isn't I didn't you thing may have do it, they any a are schedule would and interested know in have can time and we to qualified budget the although that, job a The always you are, worst and enemy. and better, an how they find? 151 impression act. kind of that's to goes one When have What thing another to history. business they few a premium reaction your get for 1995 I great. was it thought system, there where elsewhere. be rather used the on very someone is a had But weren't for it. do to a We 1, hydro, hydro. steam put people five for had were hired want critical, We primarily company. be there was coming frequency or four to who the really was are, was This and time backup that didn't a a nuclear. doing left hydro some E@:: I a going company. EO): that as growth experience, job at as war could had FEBRUARY clearly later of 6 company grown until we NO. Many a of work what often for they companies are did you company WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD Well, to I the that of found for the they the rigor half end of the I They to job for the you didn't you were another division company who that period You to order it expect exclude &t Did WG: It did me because the for they I could anything end with them, and I time of the my clasp to go anywhere. few a for But institutions. these a the that saw I 1950s. the was in head Now, a was there think Order. had and hand until there division in They young company that that to But culture superintendent don't I think was I that In in career. corporate mentioned a first They that operation things other in you? experience. say In came Masonic case. the was hydro. best overnight almost have to had the of not was at the assistant or existed among Masons. head almost were addition In of the 1995 they assistant forty. fraternity had superintendent. an be 1, ways, primarily and folkways, I its company the rigid. to get I during assistant of dissolve that the was almost strong just be The in century, before well company the a set business think were continued was mortis. a personnel, of that over business world. FEBRUARY company of technical the 6 a point time the NO. because part badly just rant, there of needed hadn't roar, were 552 the people them. developed il very ©m had who clhe few excluded It experience. I EleoiE, people steam the used to and do in the WILLIAM R. GOULD company only that been 6 knew used history. I have didn't a The to So tion was that the corporate GT: iEhatlsh WG: It ol grade he two are have a the after me and favored a qualifica- 1950s out we acquired His name stand by his bit for was that determina- company. for He changed the better. expensive together qualifications milieu. Did and if you in that people they have L53 Masonic the I think know that qualifi- 1950s. it, the I a Mason, been like But structure. beneath houses determined. was the make ruthless; not was He corporations engineers the didn't who heard mid in corporate a he never structures included social I But was. immediately fraternized their our most foolish little have could probably mentioned companies built of would change. but man, kind very successor that he people of lot couldn't them had 1995 Feughtthingitordos they a a they before. wiped quite because that the operate because cation of to a actually There going culture think just were was his was in about don't There is. he he talked 1, during other that FEBRUARY was thing these was I it one all I've plant service was thing and foolishness. steam standby meet that Quinton, a That other chairman Harold what for previous tions. FO: NO. there didn't didn't that a All the car structure social. They all district. They all was same was with that. rise fit in problem? regardless of kind of that WILLIAM WG: R. GOULD There was' call NO. 6 a''ldttle Alhambra management Beach. (Chuckle) I might largely of of them living in at the the Long and lived president of in that washiHedd Martin right the Sons or Beach Area. lived in Hancock ture, but the was broke into Tech. A the lot of something was So there kind of another Pasadena people But that was that, thought I 154 the case, of the us Los One was Bank. me. The Douglas architect *Ehinls of being lived Los i tisI lived all social who A Sy in of the them struc- it. nest FCal = Tech' not in practically by true still four from that times was or who was Long was McDonnell of ;" T little culture Fasseciatientwith of ignored in there. prominent like that, down the West I group corner PElrmi from Park. I a of Interstate division There Aside somehow Pasadena Library. around western area. First ofWEheNarehi Eeetural & ofmy now most to Angeles--most three lived used toward executive who we this company were 1995 several Los out the there community me of 1, lived group--and of chief I to Park CEO is because community Hancock what example, Alhambra. executive Beach, of For suggested became business He Long The in I chairman lived was executive, Angeles in executive When it. Village, lived move. the of Edison It 1lived Angeles. bit the middle that FEBRUARY in and' I a executives. trustee Pasadena the lived of I Cal because Huntingten out on the WILLIAM GOULD NO. beach. But it then. a FO: R. was part that of the an Angeles those you FEBRUARY isn't There That's do 6 nearly were as the important folkways in that 1, this 1995 era as definitely were S“theseistill84n Los job. interesting areas still have Ehing. where those ‘85 the corporate ghettos? executives What we call going to say live, mink-1lined ghettos? And WG: they will are ghettos. perhaps offend was a Now curiously, have center in rather blow live down the as traffic. threw needed E@k: He WG: Yes. I In didn't who the in coast where to those really fact take. In 1965, because I I telldt me, the of later to what guess I form didn't always 155 in in terms succumbed, Park. shape know even ready my to pack far same thick CEOs of of and living of Eixst gave in, (Laughter) California Southern or that too, structure we breezes the meaning Hancock social with years in vourthatWilsithead moved and know was right would sea is also. areas I the will--"they" near part early both Park Now Park companies--think lived be are they {Ehatiil towel, Hancock it. that Pasadena smoggiest the They Ehere" S ThisNman the to Pasadena. of of Hancock cling blue. executives thing, one things Californians. they near today of is is Even Interstate sort But sky I'm Southern Pasadena basin. category some this the and senior of Now, huh? Edison career would until about it up and go to WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. something else first two was to the the things didn't or three months on a grand old my immediate job job site was looking said, job? at or "Well, blow up to I take While we Is shall if I you you're me to don't at "chils to be been on to to I see Scompany: of him, worth else?" your president how afiter anything lose my down asked somewhere or be came and be the senior to he 1995 in the enough lunch look quit of lunch 1, But remember bin’ to one old can going start going was were there out. job, who Nepportunitties the this man work the boss. once going. UNhaESarxes finish FEBRUARY if engineers, dad, 6 temper this He and company someday." railroads." like of engineering me how Chad, and your were you you you and just temper the other told him. Then, doing hired or blow I and successor. your me." up He and 156 said, quit He "But, you'll president vice our to He asked said, "Well day. I didn't said, not." or compliment a I mold." the fit construction believe don't institutionalized are talking was "I says, He (Laughter) that's of s uE Mttt ilesiNani ot "You said, whether know don't "I he And N o SRR TRlim He I s gl TR EIRU that companies other for worked formal whavenworkeds [ Seriouse o months three or two job the o= e o me cHlcdEITAL RS aRd only had I Now, believe unless succeed you him me lose and WILLIAM R. GOULD someday was NO. 6 you'll FEBRUARY be president." years man old could me for the him do. to whenever Bill, him years hearing get to Okay, I corporate very He ists cibimp Yes, WG: Ornid enough he in in tof Hollywood a it. he When MM me my would what thanking had gone all boss, say, hell, "Oh, president say:, business. show of immediate you're weulid to I at point note that was mostly special gave fact that president MM you thiinedfe & What's tomorrow (Laughter) appreciate from the man about like." many very discouraged that culture I made courteous a ninety-four niceties, back the input which the we on have s ioust subject culture thing of the describe, but itself. MESEhinkit as it cast to like the novelists corporate v ouNcnowsmiltitsialc heSneovelt= a tooth but I claw and EheSEop:. ruthless. there remember somebody trip be ago now he This worry about going FO: is opportunity wenttSevenSthsinkEalbotuEm WG: about exchange right CEO. would don't the wrote the I few for He talking still A proving way was we time. thanking I he and Christmas not curiously 1995 right. The EO:- Well, 1, you, dre!l these getting would but try too to usually Maspectsk offvif, scarred up. their put it was L5 Oh, foot someone out once in who den'tiever a in the while aisle didn't and matter WILLIAM R. GOULD anyway. there That 6 tried that to do seeing FEBRUARY is, themselves confess in NO. they but they maybe it. in When to non-fruitful end, huh? A WG: That's probably saying avoid to that I number were a Freom getking of president and be the "“shyouryambi tion2i what ten yards. If first downs and make of like never to just thought thought and enjoy that the you would I I might hurt took of to move move challenges problems. 158 up of Hel like you looking the larger two wanted because end I don't There keep to [ Very or Company me had to and s anid|, SRtWe sy you football, get at. a new I set would I honestly, chairman, corporate and going was he Edison the along." in I remember, that president become but try to can I must pleasure retribution. done I'm all or there. get yards ten make a bad "It'Ys said, I to IS swell veou IRwishS one get (Laughter) it, or me told who to I some say them 1995 you. career come up. step that's continue to were that chairman S cememberdsayng e L to I rancor of me for fellow way them next working a that helped things Ehe tol best I that try ability non-fruition. saw guilty being remember the infer might that not did a the corporate they come have might my them FO: I didn't 1, more but structure diverse WILLIAM FO: R. GOULD After you the were that. WG: Oh, the I they FEBRUARY permitted was last not them you went area in only did it reduce sixty United loved create their equipment to the manufacturers to carry made major suppose did, to 6 change So have NO. States the and to do change. a market was 1995 cycle, but inventories. that 1, it also EheySastcdmniie related EoN Ehelsfilfty cycle. 12(2) The cost doing savings that, turers, General small system was were had been with Motors, immense. one of the Westinghouse? you Now WG: To meet in load. service of 1948 While you major manufac- Did you were work Well see, needs rate. utility a of for a with on, the territory:. 18519 is bought G.E. of I well, I on our machine that worked with what? rate I required customers our first years should or quite say that emerged-- change growth one generators number were struggling By we of Allis-Chalmers frequency the yourself growth an them later exception turbine had of with when service most after the We the them. found You all until in but with the because, machine. been immediately FO: Electric GE smaller closely the work machines, Westinghouse that you General Mostly two did have producers? those WG: must in mean by its the law growth to meet franchised WILLIAM R. GOULD We in found Southern that the where we WG: kind it No, it But in coal FO: Mainly WG: No, Now, in we number of years that, percent I remember as 6 between struggling were meant which rate, in, those something So compounded. moving by years was burgeoning demand like those nation were we that the challenge did you almost service in unit thermal to after thermal unit? went I that and gas plants our have would We smog. the Colorado now, What is city because-- we Laughlin, built 160 in in River Nevada. coal built in We our in emergency. in unthinkable been was an particularly successful on in coal burn later were one to earlier had We oil. California, and first your for use coal? River over the energy Southern of standpoint Colorado was mainly basin Angeles a something new a put designed history were 9.4, the people 1995 change. of was of 1, statiomns. This mainly Was industries electrical There growth this would in a percent 7 frequency Which or of a number high. across year. every 9.2 thermal We and compounded. meet building a number growth very a and to hard with of was had percent the that average the FEBRUARY California rate growth 6 rate customers FO: NO. Los the the from units operating the on them. California? South almost Point, Nevada. created that WILLIAM R. BE: It's WG: Yes, GOULD a NO. gambling but we people moved worked on sesuites the the plant of WG: BElsErealllyins a area and to take I'm the southern and while has South they become Peint, the matter, a the in i the geographic the a in That production. Then, in of course, commercial and operation. Then that's we in the first our unique built-- 1it? al(5at coal River. And, for We don't own ook arat-N ol 1950s we experience. of the plant to part nuclear in two Swelt Eian d We or one envirenmentally an such latter service. electric experience was the service was shared INEhat i welisheuilld@ioe fidildinetfee plant Four the we of Page. at Nevadar at and output Colorado built that's i becausen building to on County:, Service the in plant Clark Public Seus it lveldrear i BlutENeE hersiNdaldMt Where there housing additions as shared plants coal-fired anyspastrefNit FO: at partiof Arizona We output. their put up describing units two of Station Corners their station Nevada, ystatien 1995 it? steam Laughlin, Nevada. built also we party isn't 1, now. Sure:. other now, building into FO: that center were point feature in FEBRUARY NewbuilElthat south Then 6 went itself. This provide through is a that nuclear WILLIAM WG: It R. GOULD NO. 6 FEBRUARY was an experimental wanted to build business. build a liquid came part heat venture could We It but it do interconnected two Ehere the of from almest exact black the by date, Edison dropped just Then to We the needs it again did that and in nuclear first subsidies government intended the to as a system we this source dropped build were going the to installation-a "peanut-size" continuing trick there the commercial that we systems California, Company we nucifear tpewer in So \carried domestic just because Park, plianessiihcniwe serve was little fitself. connected demonstrate nuclear a to they Rockwell getNiinteolthe us a as again Moore momentarily. lines It done neat and as this. it asked to 1995 did; are too served by now. city lines a and plant American hoping station never was North were us the did was never The to of that they producing metal. operation. we because They generating plant 1, thel ene and in 1957, T the city and let it little experimental load up of next The then in the 1960s anything That of that oh; we we built any and was number one kind unit on could without built was those morning system. go nuclear plant nuclear was of it te), the or 162 just on that forget littleticity night' a plant resource. one up it and on ‘this the that picked 1957, ShiEtTngieout night electricity. of was picked through world, it was WILLIAM R. at San the FO: GOULD building Let's go of several to when when you man was gave he was quiet About both the directly a pay cycle. it of the and in title What me. But any was of assistant. stations at that was having a year old of all the realm work out, got that went that with again was 11613 because he it which it around to people the title that I But upset. giving be me Bl working were had. and eventually jelo. Ehe with they still and down lie to the on When rather was he they title in title screwball this to they president superintendent. assistant So available me making of idea vice about hell raised time assistant. the mentor, in hard wonder. boy my The president later, title with position my would the it steam in man lords year used administrative responsibility, that for your second went the by that and used be and same told did. never the on out the me Now, sixty administrative enough I would chickened shared the of title sold that basis and 1995 later. jobs. to never young engineering, of been had [ twenty-nine a Curiously charge moving was vice My the on agreed It a want as me selling built years changed superintendent division. his you Insfaet that. didn't time we 1, title? job after who Then others finished Terribledtitle . people FEBRUARY California. back new your 6 Onofre, changed WG: NO. I became I WILLIAM R. GOULD NO. assistant 6 superintendent, superintendent FO: Did WG: Yes. the so anger been engineering by the This not immediate did happen, promised FO: There WG: Oh E@: Yes, no WG: What did E@®: Yes, is at one it what I having to the in was a doing meaningful superintendency. a sequence that was beginning. interesting better say? in pecking we bleed?" orders. Well, it from the more more was and now job personnel the best that thing for built were apprehensive the a new interesting? us became this an engineer. for me again. 164 of the engineering one of operation, For because of first by management. about away me took Well, and be less in into briefly. maintenance, to or moved engineering units was you change it my self-image then a although So my was us? department. little There interesting, creative operating and interesting for job you. us indeed. changed, it that than "Prick yes cycle Was Describe a from of happened very knows Shylock the area. all, general (Chuckle) (Laughter) work, away prospect the something yes. lured succession but me superintendent, 1995 you? had and 1, on. I title WG: and title Because in FEBRUARY my a I while education However, 1t was and preved WILLIAM R. GOULD I title can change I the It's anything an abominable Why, WG: Because giving mentor me what leaving his who you domain. I going into absolute worst personnel in this If had you the can company." NG can part of the ele him that that, was il company situation he the remember survive Well, 1995 protested milgheNc you're we you can it was right, situation. first into at of play. the employee. This there is power a He the people. the instruments him, and they were just all work schedules. looking back on So it, it World in the War steam the reflection on management of the up, there had this in was that the employee. He neither right was to man 165 many just a plethora was not care capable to at and get schedules grievances had taken out work we be left gauges the were The him. get and they so this, walk would or he personnel. the to would to to attention more but charge, man look and how that deserved to to knew fouled prior to sensitivity he knew starting no pay than just been for would were unions We the plant personnel detail had had name The trative a sensitivity no unions Company. I won't division. the hadn't Edison because through all, We division had my 1, Bill? come IT when abominable! do GT: FEBRUARY was "Bill, has have. was as saying, 6 remember interview that NO. of ©NE, of on adminis@uool doing ALl it; WILLIAM R. he was or so GOULD NO. 6 over his head. as assistant aside. I moved on. I that took learned to and the a with all their demands this thing." in then because because menial fat "You it understand to me cats don't the table across look that come would people I jobs, of things and I've because occurred labor. have not in Bill, people. second contest at all because a strike, The best over it to get terms of negotiating rule them It's that like amazing you the as the with of out (Chuckle) number 166 quickly of as you that Treat people can. what unions, nor either to is had into management do to thing pulled people. neither we anybody beat we saying or it cardinal treat it. wins Nobody The not wins Nobody corner. lot. I'm do. to what learned a hardly was that one a learned I that. from learned the wa S IR Ehe S b s E RN e R RN c omd LT h sl s tresiceoni:c Ul & iy longest the was one strikes, two had we career my In To school to had unions interesting say, don't and him there." been the to union I I think say,""Den't was and years moved years with helper, professional 1995 five finally two contracts roundhouse the for was, 1, there. going Now it they it That was kind. and think lot job. I laborer, I held negotiate while understand WG: job learned with worked track GT: I After, superintendent, the But went had FEBRUARY was experience? them who work like in WILLIAM R. GOULD that field That is, them like union you handling mueh ash committee negotiating might GT: That WG: Before could In WG: and treat professional the man who is tools professional union have they union union need a people, like people in burden to a was thing the keep to believe WililcefSEolbreakEhiemNor wanted less kowtow. the and the 1995 to handling The to weorker t e less and able to deal s members o fthe be the with profes- you tell rule is the right; snakes, of which There were some things no example of somebody is there did that rule you one that I know very 167 who ditEEafenitEn very they're cardinal the same I that indicate to better. done negotiations I'11 wish (Laughter) right. everything stop. to place don't I stop have union did good a be we everything FO: the 1, members. sional I have than is weoulid just I just constituency that I kind. don't professional coulldSwitth I who the felt ot et You that trouble the keep You work. treat can that of to foment never I man constituency his effect, kowtow. objective The to that. Recognize wants you anything ast and icven RN mert a tools. place. their to different If in you, have has that him. for recognize beings. wants so alive don't human job organizer FEBRUARY don't the a 6 who man wants NO. in should that. observe little, or The in of cardinal charming seducing WILLIAM R. GOULD women, of NO. 6 which I FEBRUARY know nothing; advice. What you make no 1, fast 1995 moves. (Laughter) @ That's very Electrical WG: In one Workers of the Brotherhood of Electrical Workers FO: Yes. WG: The FO: QfElcaunrse, WG: Yes. Which You take more had the Workers. union? IBEW, In UWUA, Was it the International another which difficult can almost of we was the had the CIO. two? I see, have to wish the discuss I IBEW John L. rumored is not do The now END OF in some Lewis the Welsh that is any a good NO. (Laugh- more. place 6 UWUZ, openly not him, to connection INTERVIEW 168 but family, it the established relationship denigrate professional. more was completely a immediately detect Uncle that won't it. NEeTONtraditiont it since I N the attitude. discussed, You we America, the since, However, ter) the UWUA. different and company of was was Union? part Utility FO: good in that to regard stop. I