Loveland, Jim Interview

Jim Loveland Interview--Jim Loveland is the president and CEO of Xactware Solutions which provides estimating systems for property insurance, remodeling, and restoration industries. He has served in a variety of positions throughout Xactware as well as CEO of XactNet. He holds a B.S. degree from BYU and an MBA from the University of Utah.

JIM LOVELAND Orem, Utah An Interview by Cal Boardman 11 September 2009 UTAH BUSINESS HISTORY PROJECT David Eccles School of Business University of Utah THIS IS AN INTERVIEW WITH JIM LOVELAND ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2009. THE INTERVIEWER IS CAL BOARDMAN FROM THE DAVID ECCLES SCHOOL OF BUSINESS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH. THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING VIDEOTAPED FOR THE UTAH BUSINESS HISTORY PROJECT. CB: So introduce yourself and say where you were born. JL: Okay, sure, I'd be happy to. My name is Jim Loveland. I was actually born in Rexburg, Idaho, while my parents were going to Ricks College, back on May 15th of 1971. CB: Now I didn't know that! Rexburg! JL: Rexburg! Absolutely! CB: How long did you live there? JL: Ah, not long. My parents were high school sweethearts and got married very, very young. Got married when they were nineteen; had me when they were twenty; had my brother when they were twenty- one. So they were starving students, as you can imagine, going to Ricks College, and by the time they were twenty- one had two little boys. Those are obviously the very, very early years. They moved from Idaho back to this area, Orem, Utah, when I was about five years old, so no memories or no recollections at all of Idaho. CB: Well, by the time that you were five, how many more siblings did you have? JL: I actually have two sisters and one brother. I did have one brother that passed away when he was three years old and I was eight. Today, my youngest sister is exactly ten years younger than I am, and my oldest sister is roughly nine years younger than I am, so almost two separate families, if you will. I mean, certainly there's a lot of 1 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 interaction, especially today, but growing up, you know, they really didn't enter into my life until I was a little bit older, ' til right around eight or nine years old. CB: What's your first memory of Utah? JL: Wow, first memory of Utah. We lived in south Orem at the time. My dad was in construction. It's really odd, because it's one of those very vivid memories. I guess everybody has those at early ages, but I just remember he had an old table saw that he kept out right next to the house. We had just a basic carport where he would park his trucks for doing construction work, and we had this table saw that had just this drop cloth covering that went over it. And my brother and I, as you can imagine being only a year apart, just loved to play together and in the rain. During rainy days, we'd love to just crawl underneath this table saw and have this own little camping and covering, and kind of like our own little hideout- type place. I guess, it was a very, very early year version of a fort, if you will, but that's probably one of my earliest memories is playing with my brother and hiding underneath that table saw, and just enjoying the rain coming down. CB: Now your dad is a contractor? JL: He was. Yeah, he was. He did a lot of different things over the course of his life. Really, if I were to define my dad, I would say an entrepreneur, but at this point in time in his life, he was a struggling student, going through Brigham Young University at the time, pursuing a broadcast journalism career, which is kind of odd considering where he ended up. But he started a construction company at the time. You know, back then probably this memory of when I was five years old, I'm sure he was just working mostly in framing. He started construction work on a framing crew. 2 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 Had some good life- long friends that are still friends today that used to be framing right along side with him, and then that quickly evolved from framing into his own reconstruction business, one of which he had a tremendous amount of success with, and grew into the largest reconstruction company, at the time doing, working in Utah and Idaho and in Wyoming. In fact, it was funny, he would oftentimes talk about our Xactware business today, and how we still hadn't grown to be quite as large as the construction company. He had a tremendous amount of success in the construction busi. In fact, so much success that once he started approaching his senior year in college and looking at broadcast journalism careers, he realized he would actually take a tremendous pay cut if he were to pursue that career, so he decided not to pursue his senior year and continued with his business in construction. It was called Loveland Construction back in the day, specializing in insurance work and reconstruction work. CB: Did you go to the work sites with him? JL: I did. I've got some great, great memories of doing that. CB: My friend's dad was a contractor, and I lived with my grandparents and my mother when I was very young, and I have some wonderful memories of the job site. Tell one of those memories that you have about going to your dad's- JL: I've got all kinds of fond memories on a number of them, especially when he was first starting the reconstruction company, Loveland Construction. Oftentimes, it was just him, you know, him and a tool belt getting out there and getting it done. Yeah, it was pretty easy to grab his sons. At this point in time, we did this often, from about age eight through the early teen years. We've got a lot of fond, fond memories, and especially at 3 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 that point. You always idolize your dad, right? And you go out there, especially a dad who works construction. He's this big tough guy. And one of the greatest memories I've got is going out on- I didn't know it at the time, but it was a demolition job, and it was basically a job where he needed to go in and just tear out a lot of damage that had been done. It was some sort of fire loss or water loss, or something along those lines. I really don't remember and didn't know, but I remember seeing my dad just basically tearing through sheetrock and drywall, you know, tearing through the drywall in the wall, showing off a little bit for us kid. Punching, you know, taking a nice punch right through the drywall, knowing there was nothing behind it, and then tearing it out. It was just one of those hero- like moments. Here my dad was this big tough construction guy just ripping down walls. I mean, how cool is that? It was just awesome, so that was one of the fond memories I had growing up. CB: I'm curious, did he ever give you a chance to take a hammer and just do that same thing to the walls? JL: Oh yeah! Right alongside him. Absolutely! That's what was so much fun for us is we would just get right next to him and just have fun. I mean, from a little boy's standpoint, it doesn't get any better than that. Just go into something and just start tearing it away and tearing it out. It was a lot of fun. A lot of great memories working alongside with him. CB: Yeah. My granddad built apartment complexes and bakeries. He specialized, for some reason, in bakeries. JL: Bakeries, huh? [ Laughs] CB: Then he built housing developments and hotels, and all kinds of stuff. 4 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 JL: Ah, that's fun. CB: He was my hero. JL: Yeah. CB: He was my hero. JL: That's great. CB: Are we back on? Okay. Well then, so you were on these jobs sites. When was the first time he ever gave you a paycheck for working? JL: [ Laughs] I don't think we ever received a paycheck from my dad, at least not until I became officially employed for Xactware in the later years. No, that was part of the hard work, part of the growing up. We oftentimes would tease my younger sisters, because they grew up in a whole different environment then we did, and frankly like my kids today. When Eric and I grew up with my dad and mom, it was more the lean and mean years. There were some years of prosperity later on, you know, towards our late teen years, but, no, we were just part of the crew. That was expected. That was part of the lessons of life and learning the value of hard work, which certainly is something we carried with us and still do today. We enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun. I'm sure there was some things that were given out as incentives. Frankly, I don't remember, but I would imagine it would involve ice cream or lunch or something, but I never recall officially receiving a paycheck. CB: A bike or [ inaudible]- JL: Oh yeah, oh absolutely, yeah. I know that came. 5 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 CB: Yeah. Let's go back to those lessons that you remember learning from him on the job. One you just mentioned was hard work. Really, I mean, you saw him in action as a businessman, too. JL: Mm- hmm. CB: If he was anything like my dad, he would just, in the course of the day, give you little business tips, at least with my grandfather that stuck with me. Do you remember any of those conversations about the lessons that he taught you, other than hard work or including hard work that you'd like to share? JL: In the early years? I mean, I had the great fortune of working with him for a number of years throughout my career, but especially in the early years. I mean, in addition to hard work, which was a huge lesson and a very important one for me, without question there was a lot of lessons learned about integrity. My dad was the kind of- especially back in the construction years, old school business person, if you will. He was someone that would just simply- you know, if you did a deal on a hang shake, you never had to worry about it going south with my dad. A very, very high integrity individual, and everybody who came across or worked with him in any sort of capacity would always say that about him. If my dad gave you his word, it was golden, and you didn't have to worry about anything. So certainly in addition to hard work and the value of hard work, and appreciating, you know, just the fulfillment that comes from that, without question just the integrity and being able to do and handle business with utmost integrity was absolutely something that he taught us from the very, very early years in working in construction. 6 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 CB: How did he handle diversity? JL: Diversity in which form? CB: I don't know, like a sub that wouldn't work or, you know, I don't know. I mean, you learn from the positive, but you also learn from the challenges. Do you remember those? JL: Oh, there's no question. Oh, yeah. [ Laughs] Too many stories to tell, but we've had so many forms of diversity over the years it's not even funny, you know, how he would handle diversity. I mean, he was the kind of person that was very straight forward, which I think a lot of people valued and appreciated, and so you always knew exactly where you stood with my dad. There was no question. There was no wondering if you were doing a good job, like a subcontractor like you mentioned, but he would handle it straight forward and in a very open fashion and then deal with the situation. If things really went south, frankly, he would jump in and get it done himself. He was that kind of person where, you know, the old mantra that if you want it done right, you got to do itself yourself. He had no problem getting his hands dirty. In fact, he used to always talk about construction, even later on in life, and when he was a general contractor working in reconstruction. He would always tell me, he said, " If you ever want to know who the general contractor is on a job, go look for the guy with the broom, because that's typically him." Just no fear of jumping in and getting his hands dirty, and doing whatever he needed to do to get the job done right. CB: That's a great story. I come from a family where business was talked about around the table. I still want to focus around the early years. JL: Okay, absolutely. 7 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 CB: We'll come to the exact years where you were in college and all that stuff later, but I still want to focus on those formative, early years. Was your mom involved, and I don't mean on the side, but how was your mom involved in this whole character formation that became you? JL: My mom was always very closely involved with all my dad's businesses, whether it's the early years with Loveland Construction or even when he began Xactware, the data, analytic, and software company of today, she was right there by his side. They were very much a team in terms of conducting business, you know, in addition to obviously the marriage and everything else, but handling business. I mean, she would always run the accounting, for example, and kind of the back office- type functionality. When it was the early years with Loveland Construction, he would be out on the jobs getting the jobs done, and especially during the lean and mean times when he was first starting, she would be helping out with the finances, doing the bookkeeping, you know, even taking some calls if she needed to. She was very much right by his side, and very much part of all the businesses that he began, in a true partnership- type fashion. CB: Did you find yourself talking about business around the dinner table? JL: Oh, absolutely! CB: You and your brother were on the side lots where you see all that stuff, and I would imagine your other siblings would on occasion come by. Describe kind of a typical dinner where you were, say, about twelve years old, sixth grade, seventh grade. What was it like being in your family? JL: Well, it was something. I think this is true of most entrepreneurs. It was something where there was no clocking in and clocking out. Business was a 7/ 24 type of activity, 8 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 especially where it's a family business. When I say family business, even in the construction years, my dad was working alongside his brothers, and his brothers were part of the business. My mom was part of the business. You know, we'd go out and help on occasion as well, so it was always centered around family. So, yeah, even though the traditional Sunday dinners, always a lot of fun, and a lot of conversation, conversation about everything that we loved and were passionate about, but, you know, you would end up talking about business. There was no, you know, office hours, no " it's eight to five and business is done." We would constantly be discussing the different aspects of the business and where the business needs to go, and some of the challenges and the things that were being faced at that time; and that was a culture that whether I was twelve or thirteen or in my twenties and thirties, that didn't change. That was always just a way of life. That's a way of life for the Loveland family. CB: You know, and this I'll just say is based on tuition about you, and you know, I've known you for awhile. I never knew your father or your mother. I know Eric, of course. I want you to take this- there's a specialness about you that- JL: Okay. [ Laughs] CB: - and I don't know how to describe it. I want to say a softness, but that's not- I don't want to you to misinterpret that. JL: Sure. CB: There's an understanding of people that you seem to bring to the table. I'm curious where that comes from. I mean, your father's this tough big guy. Maybe I'm stretching a bit, but my intuition is that you have this insight into people. Where did that come from? 9 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 JL: Yeah that's, you know, I have to pause and think about that, I guess, in terms of- because you're right. I mean, when you look at business and when you boil business down, it really is just about people, whether it's about your employees and taking care of your employees, like we do around here, and basically they're family. They are a part of the Xactware family. That's why it's been such a blessing for us to have a family- centered business, whether it was the early years with Loveland Construction or even Xactware today, it's always been centered around people, or even the customers that we have. We talk about them in terms of being true valued business partners, and it just really boils down to relationships, even though we're a high tech company, and we provide data analytics and software and business services and tools, it really is just about the people. So, you know, I have to pause and think about this a little bit, and go, " Okay, when did I begin to really understand and value people and look at the interaction with people?" Really the best thing I would look at in the formative years, in the early years, would be my mom. I mean, my mom is just an amazing woman, and a very, very openly friendly, outgoing- compassionate would be the best word to describe her- type individual. You know, like most families, if you wanted something, you didn't go to dad. Dad was the big tough guy, and especially if you're a son, right? You go to mom, because that's where the compassion lies, and that's where you can really play that angle and get things done. So perhaps it was, you know, whether I was working some of those angles or looking to her and some of the personality and wonderful traits that she has, there's no question that I got a blend from both my dad and mom in the early years in terms of defining who I am and interacting with people. Certainly from a compassion standpoint, 10 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 definitely my mom was a major, major part of that in my life and major role model for me without question. CB: Perfect, thank you. Do you play sports? JL: Absolutely! Love sports! I absolutely love ' em. CB: What did you play? JL: Well, growing up I played basketball. It's really kind of ironic, because my son plays football today, and I love football, and my in- laws were all football players for Orem High School where I went to high school. I'm a big passionate BYU football fan, University of Utah football fan, and never played it. It wasn't until later on in my twenties, actually, I turned to my mom and said, " Mom, how come I never played football?" Perhaps it's that compassionate side of her, but her response was, " I didn't want you to get hurt. I didn't want to see you get hurt," which is kind of ironic because my dad was a big high school football player, kind of one of the stars of his high school team, and yet I never did play football. But my passions for sports are really- it's going to be a different direction than you expect, but I love volleyball. There was no organized volleyball in my high school when I was growing up, but I grew up right above the old WordPerfect campus, and they put in a couple of sand volleyballs courts. They were literally just blocks away from my home, so I ended up spending a lot of time over there learning how to play volleyball, meeting a whole different group of people, learning to connect with people that also have a love for the game; and I still to this day play volleyball once or twice a week when I'm in town, because I just have a huge passion for it, love to play it. Mostly outdoor two- man 11 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 type volleyball where it's a little more challenging. I love playing any form of it, but mostly two- man outdoor sand/ grass, you name it. CB: What did sports teach you? JL: Sports is a wonderful avenue. In fact, you can go into one of the rooms here in our office and you'll see trophies, just tons and tons of different trophies, from all the different sports team that we've sponsored. Sports really teaches you just, you know, the value of teamwork. Any successful sports team is going to be a team that is able to come together and understand the value of working together as a team, and not necessarily as an individual and performing as an individual, but performing as a team and a well- oiled machine. There's a ton of lessons to be learned there. I had a lot of people that I interacted with through Xactware- sponsored softball teams or other basketball teams, or other types of sporting events that I learned a lot about their personality, and in some cases I actually later on put them in positions that I thought were best tailored to their personalities; one example that comes to mind I'm thinking about is a sales person. I saw this personality out there on the ball diamond playing softball that was just tough, gritty, competitive, would not lose- perfect type of sales person- and he has done great in his sales role today. CB: See, it's that sense that you've got about people. JL: [ Laughs] CB: That's cool. I mean, these are great stories to tell. It's wonderful. What I want to do now is move a little later. You graduate from high school and then what? JL: I graduate from high school. I went to BYU for a year and thought I could do it all. At the time, you know, I got very, very good grades in high school. Graduated with a 3.8 12 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 GPA. Got a scholarship, went to BYU, and decided that I was going to be able to do it all. I could take, I think that first semester I took something like twenty credit hours, was working about thirty to forty hours a week at Xactware, and had a little bit of a harsh reality that first semester in terms of learning what it was about, trying to go to school full- time, and also doing a job thirty to forty hours a week, but managed to plow through it and get okay to decent marks, but it was definitely a rough introduction into the university life. So that's how I spent my first year out of high school. Then in 1990, I went on an LDS mission to Bahía Blanca, Argentina, which is a place- the mission actually covers the southern part of the province of Buenos Aires. Had some great experiences there for the next couple of years learning to love the culture and the people, and you know, picking up, of course, on the language and just some of the incredible experiences just interacting with the people, and serving the people, and loving that culture and those people that were down there. CB: You mentioned, and I want to come back to that, but you mentioned something that triggered a thought in my mind, so I want to back up just a little bit. JL: Okay, yeah, absolutely. CB: You graduated in 1989, and Xactware was formed three years earlier. JL: That's right, 1986. CB: So it was formed in ' 86, and I don't want to miss that genesis, because I think that's an important part of the story, and then we'll come back to your mission. So let's just back up. Can you talk about how Xactware was born? JL: Yeah, no question it's a great story. This is one that still to this day we tell this story repeatedly to customers, whether it's new markets that we're opening out in Europe today 13 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 and have over the last couple of years, or new customers. It's a fantastic story. So my dad ends up creating this construction company, Loveland Construction, that has a tremendous amount of success. Becomes a multimillion dollar business that's doing very, very well. Through this process, he actually would go about creating- so this was late ' 70s, early ' 80s. A core part of his business that was needed to create scopes and estimates to be able to get potential jobs from insurance personnel, so basically claims adjusters who had some sort of loss to reported to them. And they would farm that out and have competitive bids come back. Well, at that time, everything was done with pen and paper. My dad had, you know, it was really well- known that he had horrible handwriting, and so he would create these handwritten scope notes and try to give them back to the office personnel, or he would try to pass these handwritten estimates on to potential customers or claims adjusters, and people just couldn't read them. In fact, one famous story that he told quite often was that they couldn't make out a number. They actually couldn't see where the decimal point was. Well, as you know, in the construction business, you live and die by that stuff, and so what he decided- this was early ' 80s, early 1980. PCs were just starting to boom, and just starting to come out, and starting to go mainstream in terms of business use and business application. So he got some PCs and was just starting to improve his business processes. Again, he's an entrepreneur. He's always looking for ways to improve and do things better, so he got a PC and actually found a developer. Paid this person fifteen hundred dollars to write, in a basic language platform, the first version of what we call our Xactimate Estimation Software. So he sat down with the developer and had it written 14 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 to his specifications to run Loveland Construction and create these new computerized scopes, through which he had a tremendous amount of success. So now, instead of going to these claims adjusters and giving them handwritten pieces of papers with his scribbling and notes on it that they had a hard time deciphering, he was handing out these beautifully formatted, printed versions of the computerized software output, the actual print and the report, and it was a huge hit! He had a good friend that was a Farmer's claims adjuster that convinced him that he was onto something, and he needed to sell the construction business and start a new software company. So he looked at that very, very hard. It involved a lot of fasting, a lot of prayer on his part to figure out if that was the right thing to do, and he decided that he was going to give a go at it. Even though he was very successful at that time with the construction business, didn't know anything about software. Remember, his background's in broadcast and journalism. Did three years at BYU; been doing construction for quite some time. Didn't know anything about the software business. Sold the company off, and actually sold it to a brother of his, which is my uncle, and then began this new software company in 1986 out of the basement of our home, which literally was him, this software application, and one sales person, and tried to make a go out of it. It was quite the experience. He had no idea how this industry worked, how software companies ran. Thought it would be successful a lot sooner than it was. In those early years of Xactware, it was very difficult, very tough, very lean and mean times, because it just took a lot longer to achieve success with that business than he initially planned on or thought. 15 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 But ultimately he did, and he talked a lot about the fact that it was actually a great blessing in his life and the life of our family to have the reconstruction business basically go belly- up about a year after he sold it, and so he had no fall- back plan. He had to make this work with this new Xactware company in order to become successful himself, because he couldn't go back to the old construction business. In fact, he talked about how often he wanted to, and it was a great blessing in our lives to not do that, because there was nothing around. Nothing to go back to, and he had to make this work, and ultimately he definitely did. CB: The recession at that time was nearer its end, I believe. JL: Right, 1986. CB: What caused the company to- I mean, a multimillion dollar construction business, what caused it to turn so quickly? JL: Well, it's- you know, unfortunately, I don't know if I ever got into those deep- type conversations. I know that at a high level what it was- basically there was a big difference from having it run by my dad the way it was run, and the new owners that frankly came in. I think they probably got in a little over their head and didn't know what they were doing. Actually, within a twelve month period of time managed to run the company out of business. Now, in the construction world, you live and die by your cash flow management. Not to get too technical, but as you know, there's a lot of float involved. There's a lot of subs. If you can't pay your subs in a timely fashion- so it is pretty easy to take a successful company like that and run it into the ground. And I'm just speculating, but I would assume that that was probably one of the number one problems that they had, was just making sure to manage that cash flow and do so appropriately. 16 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 CB: There's a great story that I've read about the potential customer ( I presume this is a potential big customer) - JL: Mmm- hmm. CB: - who gets into debt, is talking about trying to sell this new program. This guy made a comment about, " Well, you're not running your business out of the basement of your home." JL: [ Laughs] CB: I mean, would you tell that story? That is just a cool, cool story. JL: It is a great story. CB: So start from the beginning. Just pretend that I didn't ask. JL: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, so if you go back to the early years of the business, you know, 1986, it's the lean and mean years again in starting up this new software company. It's when my dad began this business. Again, he had a friend that was a Farmer's adjuster. You know the reason he started the software company was because this Farmer's adjuster took this software to the home office in L. A. and showed it to them, and came back and told my dad, " They love this stuff! They want this stuff! They want to buy it!" And so that is really what helped prompt him to begin the new software company. Unfortunately, what my dad didn't realize is insurance companies, they take a very, very long time to make a decision. And so Farmer's Insurance did ultimately become a customer, but it took about six years for that to happen. So in the meantime, we're struggling. We're trying to make things work. He's working out of the basement of our house with one sales guy. Eventually that grew into about two or three guys, and 17 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 started, obviously, to hit the road. My dad, again, he did everything. He had no problem in rolling up his sleeves and just digging in and getting stuff done. There's some great stories of the early years, and how he would grab, you know, everything he needed, and hop in the van, and head down to California, Texas, you name it, and just be there with the sales guy in trying to make the sales of the software to the contractors to achieve some sort of success, and that's really where the success of the business began. It was a grassroots movement, if you will, in terms of achieving success with the service providers, is what we call them, side of our industry. The contractors doing the restoration work. Really my dad's background. Something he could completely relate to in selling to these reconstruction contractors, because he lived that life for so long. But as he began to have more and more success, we started to obviously sell to all the insurance companies; and the largest insurance company in our industry is State Farm Insurance, and they are larger than number two and three combined, so it's a very big deal to be able to actually have a customer of that kind of magnitude. Right around four years after the company was founded, right around 1990, my dad began to have a lot of success with State Farm Insurance. They were very impressed by him, by the level of integrity that he had, of course the software that he produced; and it's very rare that a company like State Farm, the size of State Farm, takes what really was a risk and a gamble and goes with a small company like the one my dad had at the time. As they began to seriously look at the software and decide to go with our software, one of the executives that my dad worked with at the time at State Farm made the comment of, " Well, I just need to come out. Before we absolutely pull the trigger on 18 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 this deal, I've just got to come out and see your operations. We have to make sure you're not operating out of your basement." And, unfortunately at that time, he was! [ Laughs] So that was all he needed to make sure and change the operations and move the operations. He had a lot of success, but, fortunately, had a great friend that lived across the street that had some office buildings, and very quickly, in a very short time frame, he managed to move the business operations out of his basement into an office, and by the time State Farm came out to actually check our company out, get a chance to meet the great people that we had within the company at that time, especially in those early years that made it happen, we were definitely a full fledged, legitimate business operating out of an actual office space and conducting business. It was a tremendous opportunity for us, and without question we had a great benefit in having a fantastic customer, who's still a great customer today, take a gamble on us on the early years and go with a very young and up- and- coming software company, and partner with us. A partnership that's still very, very strong to this day. CB: Aw, that's wonderful, but thank you. That is the part of the story I didn't want to miss. JL: Yeah. No, it is a great story. CB: I value that a lot. Let's go back to your experience on your mission. How did that impact who you are as a person or maybe even as a businessman? JL: A tremendous impact! I mean, any time you take two years out of your life and you just focus on service, focus on what was preaching the gospel at that point in time, and interacting with people, and getting to know people, and discussing really more important 19 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 things with individuals such as God, and the gospel, and the overall plan for all of us here on this earth, you get a tremendous opportunity to develop as a person, and so it had a tremendous impact. Those are really two of the most important years of my life. I had a chance to go into a foreign culture and really step out of the old Jim Loveland entirely and figure out who this new one was going to be, because there, during those years, in addition to learning how to very much interact with people, and, of course, speak a different language as I would have that interaction, I also got a chance to really think about myself in terms of what I wanted to do. I've got journal entries where I just talk about all I wanted to do was work with my dad in the business and continue to be part of a business. That was something, you know, I figured out at that time. That's who I wanted to be. If you think about it, not many people have that blessing when they're basically nineteen, twenty, twenty- one years old of figuring out who they want to be for the rest of their life, but I remember vividly laying that out and talking about it, and writing about it in a journal, and figuring out that there's no question that that's what I wanted to do. As I mentioned earlier, my dad was one of my idols, one of my heroes, and taught me so much, and there was just this strong, deep passion of wanting to work with him side by side, and work with the business, and continue to take the business to new levels. So it was a great time for me. It was a time of just growth and development, whether interacting with people on a personal level and learning how to interact with people, and understanding people; or my own personal spiritual development and understanding more of my values, what my core values and principles were. It was a fantastic time of my life. 20 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 CB: So, you come back from that experience with a much greater focus then you left with. I mean, you come back with this, " I know now what I want to do with my life." JL: Right. CB: And you re- enroll in BYU- JL: That's right. CB: - and you take a very specific track academically. JL: Right. CB: Talk about that. JL: Yeah, those were great times. In fact, I started working for the company back in 1988. So two years after the company's officially formed, and, of course, you have to remember those first two years are out of my basement, so I was living it anyway, but officially starting working in 1988. Back then, you know, I was actually hired by uncle who still works for me to this day, to basically do a lot of different things. I did everything from marketing and shipping, and just kind of those low level jobs in those early years. But, yeah, after I came back from the mission I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I started again working for Xactware. At that point in time, I was working in customer support, interacting with people over the phone, and doing a little bit of software quality assurance, software testing. You know, you had to wear multiple hats back in those early years, so when I came back and started working for the company again, there was probably only about, I would say maybe, fifteen to twenty employees working for the business at that time. Now I knew exactly what I wanted to do from an education standpoint. Definitely wanted to get educated in something that would greatly benefit me in my career at 21 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 Xactware, and so I looked at a lot of different things. I looked at degrees that focused on- my dad, frankly, wanted to push me towards the construction route, construction management or, you know, some sort of pricing research. What I've found is I've always been a very logical thinker, and in high school I loved to do debate and loved math. That's just the way my brain is built, and so I landed on computer science and figured that that would be something that would be very useful. I was into software testing at the time. Thought it would a lot of fun to develop. I learned later on that that wasn't a lot of fun, at least not for me, not for Jim Loveland. There's a lot of people that do a great job with that, but that was not something that I wanted to do with my entire career. So I landed on computer science as a degree and fortunately had some great friends. I've got two outstanding friends that have been close friends of mine since the third grade in elementary school. At this point in time, they both came back from their missions, and we all came back together; and in conjunction with these two friends and also a cousin, all landed on computer science as our degrees of choice, and thank heavens for those friends and my cousin, because they helped me get through that degree. I mean, I'll never forget the sleepless, endless nights of Mountain Dew and coding. You know, in one particular instance, while we were doing this program that we were trying to create for a class where, you know, I spent probably ten hours of work trying to figure out what was wrong with program, all because I had one semicolon that was out of place. Those were the old days of coding, but definitely that probably is about the point in time I learned I wasn't going to be a coder the rest of my life either, but certainly knew exactly which direction I wanted to head in terms of my educational pursuit at that time. 22 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 CB: Well, that gave you really all the raw materials you needed. It's really a question not a statement. Were there other raw materials at the time; I mean, raw materials that helped develop Jim Loveland his- I'm wondering, were there other events that occurred? I'm still talking about up to that time frame. JL: Up to just after the mission or- CB: Yeah, when you started. I mean, let's say you're through BYU, you're graduated, now you're full time with Xactware working on your career path, there may have been other people ( you mentioned your friends and your cousin) or other events besides your mission, sports. I don't want to miss them, if there were any other people who helped shape who you became or events that helped shape who you became. JL: Sure. CB: I don't know. Maybe we've covered them, but if there are any others I don't want to miss them. JL: Well, the only other thing I can think of is obviously when I came back from my mission that's what point in time I met my wife. So that's kind of looking forward. In terms of looking back, I think we've covered it fairly well. You know, I look at the formative years. I mentioned a little bit about debate. I actually played the violin and still do to this day. Not well. I don't pull it out enough to play it well to this day, but that was a big part of my life growing up. And as I look at my kids, and my oldest is now twelve, you know, one of the important things for me is that, no matter what it is, that they figure out exactly what they have a passion for and that they pursue that passion. For me in high school, I wish it were sports, but it wasn't, even though I'm extremely passionate about playing volleyball. I 23 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 discovered that later on in life. At that point in time it was frankly debate and the logic that comes with it, and the speaking skills, and everything that surrounds just the whole debate culture that I just loved and thrived on, as well as playing the violin in orchestra and having an opportunity, actually, in my senior year, to play in Carnegie Hall with an orchestra that was put together through- it was kind of a youth philharmonic. It was the Summerhay's Youth Philharmonic Orchestra and pursued it well enough to become very, very good at that time and be able to make those type of orchestras and just love it. Had a strong passion for it. In fact, when I came back from my mission and- well excuse me, no, it was actually earlier than that- when I graduated from high school and went to BYU that first year, I was taking that huge course load, I was working thirty hours a week, I still wanted to pursue playing the violin. I went and tried out for BYU's orchestra. Actually did well. I made it, not only into the orchestra but made first chair or second violin, which is a pretty good accomplishment. The problem was, is that I had to come to the harsh reality in terms of what was I going to do with the instrument down the road. Was it going to be part of my future development or my career? You know, when you look at that piece of paper and you realize orchestra is like, I think it was like one or one- and- a- half credit hours, and it had all these demands and time constraints and just things that you had to do from a practicing standpoint performing, I finally had to look at it, and after about a month I just said, " You know what? I can't do this any longer." So it went from that point in time being something I was very, very passionate about, to just a hobby and something that I didn't pursue. Outside of that, I think that kind of brings us up to where we were. 24 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 CB: Good. Now Xactware is a very unique product, and what I'd like for you to do is jump forward, not to today, but to about four or five years ago, before your dad passed away, and let's talk about, let's start by talking about where exactly Xactware is in the industry. So let's talk about that, and make a few comments about where it is today, and then let's go back, and then, you know, a little story, not a long one, talk about it's growth in those early days that you were an integral part of, to those days just prior to your father getting sick. JL: Okay, sure, absolutely. Yeah, Xactware, as you mentioned, it was definitely one of the earliest companies to come up with this type of solution, to basically create a software for this what's really a niche industry, this property insurance industry, that had a need for software solutions to be able to create computerized estimates. So we had the great benefit of being in the right place, at the right time, in creating the right solution for this niche industry, and so had tremendous success. If you fast forward to today, we are the leader in that in that market, without question, in terms of providing software and data analytics. We have exclusively on the claims side of the business eighteen out of the top twenty- five insurance carriers using our tools. So when the big major events happen, like the ones that you hear about on the news like a Hurricane Katrina several years ago, or even last year like a Hurricane Ike or a Gustav, you know, a majority of those claims that are settled are actually settled and adjusted using our software and our tools and data analytics, which allow the customers, the insurance carriers, to actually distribute out in real time these claims assignments out to the hands of these service professionals, whether they're claims adjusters or contractors, to be able to quickly reconstruct the homes that have been damaged through 25 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 those type of events, or just simply cut out the checks to the policy holders, to be able to allow them to go on their own and actually reconstruct their homes in a fashion that they would like. So, if you look at the success that we've had over the years and kind of map out that success, you know, one of the things my dad was brilliant at was really becoming a study of business and management. He was a natural born entrepreneur without question, but if you look again at his training it was in broadcast journalism; and although he used that for some products that we've created to do some voice overs and some other voice work for some training products, he really didn't have a background or an education in the computer software business or data analytics; but what he was brilliant at doing was being a self- made man. I mean, he would constantly study the latest and greatest business books, and theorizing kick around with his top level management personnel different tactics and different ways to conduct the business, and really did some exceptional things through those practices. Back in 2000, one of the things he did was really an absolute pure play of empowerment for the people within the company. If you look at 2000, my brother is working with him in the company and having great success, after getting his degree. I'm now with the business. We have a lot of other outstanding individuals that have been with the business for a long period of time, since the business was founded in 1986; and so what he did, is he actually created different subsidiaries within the organization and allowed the senior people of our business to actually nominate who would be a general manager of each one of those subsidiaries. 26 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 He realized that our business had achieved a lot of growth during the first fourteen years of its existence and needed to basically take it to the next level. Realized that he could no longer be a one- man show any more and roll up his sleeves and get everything done himself, which he had done really for the most part of that first fourteen years. And at the same time, he had a tremendous amount of talent there within the organization, so he came up with this process where the senior level people would actually nominate these general managers of these different divisions, these subsidiaries. I was fortunate enough to be nominated for one. Eric, my brother, was fortunate enough to be nominated for another, and we have some other outstanding people nominated, but we created our business, we created divisions in our business with about four to five different subsidiaries, at the time. That really allowed him, then, to entrust these different general managers as really mini- CEOs within the organization to continue to take these products within their side of the business to the next level and achieve tremendous amounts of success and development, and that's when things really started to take off and really do well from 2000. In fact, we've got those divisions- I no longer call them subsidiaries today, because that's kind of a confusing term in terms of being independently owned and acquisitions and others- but, we do still have today these same type of individuals who are an outstanding caliber of individuals that act as almost mini- CEOs within our organization that run each division, each profit center, and are in charge of managing these profit centers and achieving tremendous amounts of success. CB: That was a brilliant move on his part. JL: It was. It was absolutely brilliant, and especially back, if you think about 2000, how you're getting right into the dot- com hayday, and so you've got a lot of people being 27 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 wowed by- you know, we're in technology; we're in development, you know. These stories, these Silicon Valley companies that are giving developers cars if they come to work for them. It was a challenging time to be here in Orem, Utah, and to continue to operate a technology company that was privately held and continue to take that to the next level. So that was one of the many brilliant moves that he did at that point of time, to continue to achieve success, and allow the company really to go to the next level. CB: I don't know if you're at liberty to say, but what were the revenues in sales in 2000? If you'd rather not answer- JL: [ Laughs] No, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. I'm just trying to peel back the onion and realize specifically in 2000. I know precisely where we were right before I took over the business. So, I took over the business, well, we haven't really gotten into that whole personal side, and so I don't know if I should get into that right now or not. CB: I was going to ask you if you felt comfortable talking about that. JL: Yeah, I'm fine talking about that. That's not a problem. CB: Let's talk about the transition. JL: Okay, absolutely. Well, maybe before we get there, one of the things I do want to kind of talk about a little bit is just, if you round up kind of a subsidiary structure, one of the things that, again, we talked about what a brilliant move that this was, my brother had a lot of passion for his side of the business which he created, which was the underwriting side of the business. So in other words, when you pick up the phone and you try to figure out " what insurance company do I want to insure my new home with," they go through a process where they have to figure out a replacement cost value of your home to write the insurance policy. It's not at market value, because that's not important. What's important 28 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 is what's it going to cost to replace your home if it were to be completely destroyed by some type of event. There's tools that are used in order to do those calculations, and my brother had the great advantage of developing and creating that side of the business through the subsidiary structure and did a great job with that. Myself, I graduated from BYU in computer science back in 1996; and during that time, I had the great advantage- there was one professor, in particular, that had a tremendous impact on me and going through that program. It was Dr. Evan Ivy. In fact, I don't even know if he's still around today, but he taught a computer networking class, and you have to remember this is the early nineties. Most people haven't heard about the Internet yet, at this point in time. He had the advantage of teaching not only a computer networking class, but introducing us to the Internet and everything that it had to do with. Talking about networking technologies and protocols, and not to get too technical, but what to me was very intriguing and interesting and fun stuff, at that point in time. In fact, he talked a lot about his experience in teaching the founders of Novell, and working with those founders, and actually creating a business plan to create Novell as a company, and that was probably the one course that had the most impact on me, because I loved the technology that he was talking about. So going through that class and then working in the business, I had the great advantage of being able to run as a project manager, create a new side of the business that was the business- to- business networking side, the data analytic side that really began in 1995, all based on internet protocols, which in again in 1995, the Internet is just now starting to come out; but again, be in the right place, at the right time, in creating the right tool for our industry was tremendous! 29 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 It was really much like XactNet was really innovative, revolutionary. We've gotten numerous patents on that technology, because we were the first of its kind in our industry to introduce that kind of solution, but creating this business- to- business process of data analytics that would propel our business forward, much like the underwriting side of the business to where we are today, and tremendous amounts of success. So here we are. Eric has a chance. He's running a great side of the business. I'm creating a great side of the business. We had this really ( I shouldn't say technology) an environment of entrepreneurship within the company, because we're all these empowered now mini- CEOs, which was a brilliant move by my dad, and fortunately one that would propel our business forward in the future. In 2004, in about spring of 2004, my dad was diagnosed with leukemia. Now there are two strains of leukemia. There's AML and ALL, and one is much more serious than the other. It's the AML that's the serious one. The ALL is the less serious one. And unfortunately with AML there's only about a ten percent cure rate, and he was diagnosed with that form of leukemia, so it was really just a tremendous shock. Here he is a successful businessman. He'd been healthy his entire life. Really had no significant health challenges throughout the course of his life, and then all of a sudden, BAM, at age fifty-three, out of the blue, we find out he has leukemia. A very, very difficult time in our life. Eric and I were just about to head into the University of Utah's Executive MBA program, much at the urging of my dad. Again, he was always propelling us forward in terms of developing us through either the business or even in being a huge proponent of education, as my dad always was. We had just enrolled; just been accepted. In fact, our knee jerk reaction was, " We've got to quit! 30 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 We've got to drop out! We've got to help you battle this and help you move forward!" It was a very difficult time of our lives to try to figure out what was going to happen. My dad, of course, was adamant that he was going to beat it, and frankly all of us were. We thought for sure he was going to beat this. We had some miraculous experiences even along the way of fighting this through multiple treatments of chemotherapy and bone marrow transplants, etcetera. But unfortunately, ultimately, it ended up taking his life in June of 2005. CB: We've got about five minutes left on this tape. JL: Okay. CB: I'm going to ask Jim some personal reflections, and I think I'd rather not have those interrupted. Could we switch the tape now? [ Break in recording.] CB: So, Jim, your dad passes away. Before he passes away, he sets in motion the continuation of his company. JL: Right. CB: You want to talk about that and the experience that you had with him at this time? JL: Sure. CB: And the result of that experience? JL: Sure. Yeah, this is going to sound really strange, but actually having my dad have that- how can I put this? We were so blessed and fortunate that he ended up passing away of leukemia. Now that sounds really odd and really strange to say that, but I look at this in my life and think, " I had some of the most special times with my dad that I still cherish to this day during that last year of his life, when we were all battling this horrible 31 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 disease together." You know, my dad was an entrepreneur that was a workaholic that was just extremely focused and extremely dedicated, and frankly, if he probably would have had it his way, would have been at the helm at this Xactware business until the long ripe age of, you know, eighty or ninety years old. That's just the kind of person he was. So we had this opportunity that was really a tremendous wakeup call, because before that point in time, before he actually ended up getting diagnosed with leukemia back in 2004, there was not talk about succession plans. I mean, he's young. He's fifty-three years old. Everything was implicit in terms of the development of myself, and my brother, and a lot of other great people within this organization, and family members; but there was never sitting across the table at a Sunday dinner and saying, " Okay, here's how the baton is going to be passed between one generation to the next." We never had those kinds of conversations. So during that year of battling for his life, in the spring of 2004 until he passed away in June of 2005, we had some of the most amazing spiritual experiences with my dad in terms of talking about his life, in talking about our love for each other; which, honestly, my dad was an old farm boy from Wyoming, from Burlington, Wyoming, and those kinds of conversations were just not had on a regular basis, and so it was a tremendous blessing for us to have that time with him, and to have him go in that fashion, instead of any other fashion where he just may have been gone from one day to the next. So something that I value a tremendous amount, and ultimately when we did realize and when he realized that this would indeed take his life back in June of 2005, he made the change. Really, our business was in limbo for a full year, where we had some great people at some very, very senior levels working as a COO or a senior vice 32 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 president, executive vice president, doing a great job with the business, but no one really at the helm for that year. Once he finally realized that there was no chance of recovery, he passed the baton to me and appointed me the new president and CEO of the business, and appointed my brother a senior vice president over sales and marketing, to really propel the business forward and take it to the next level. So very, very difficult time in all of our lives, and at that same point in time I'm halfway through my education at the University of Utah doing the Executive MBA program, as is my brother. It was a tremendous struggle and battle for all of us to deal with the emotions of what we were, you know, undergoing as a family and losing my dad, somebody that was such a principle part of my life, and my brother's life, and of course, my entire family's life to coming to the grips and the reality of being thirty- four years old and running a business that at that point in time had about two hundred employees, was doing about just a little over thirty million dollars in gross revenues, and was very, very successful. So there was a very heavy mantle that was passed on to me, in terms of continuing to move this business forward and being able to take it to the next level. CB: But he had prepared you well. JL: He was brilliant at the way he was able to prepare me. There's no question. I mean, it's something that, as I look back, you know, hindsight being what it is, and realizing what he did over the course of his life, whether it was through pushing for my education at BYU and getting a computer science degree, or pushing for my brother and I to go back to school and get our Executive MBAs through the U of U, or even the development that we had through the business, and empowering us, and letting us have different sides 33 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 of the business to be able to independently run and operate. He did a brilliant job at empowering us, and really preparing us for the future, and the ability to take the business on into the future. CB: He allowed you to have fun, too, didn't he? JL: Oh, yeah! [ Laughs] CB: I mean, the stories you said about knocking your fist through the wall. I mean, that's fun! JL: Oh yeah, it was fun. CB: So you grow up with this notion that this business world is fun! JL: Absolutely. CB: Want to talk about that? JL: No, there's no question. I mean, anybody that knew my dad knew that there was very few hobbies that he had, but the few that he did have we enjoyed very, very well. One of his tremendous loves and hobbies was Lake Powell. So like my dad would oftentimes do, especially being a family business, he would always look for ways to combine both business and pleasure, and we did that. We did that through Lake Powell. In fact, I'm sitting here about two weeks away from continuing on that tradition of a strategic retreat every fall, where we will take our senior most level people down to Lake Powell and spend time with each other, talking about the needs of the business, talking about the direction of the business, laying out the future plans of the business strategically, and just pulling ourselves out the woods, if you will, for a moment and just looking at the landscape and looking at where the business lays. My dad started that tradition years and years ago, and I am privileged and thrilled to continue that one today. 34 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 So we would go down, and we would enjoy time out on the lake, enjoy time boating on the lake, getting to know each other and having fun, and at the same time strategically talking about the business and where the business needs to go, how to get the business to the next level. CB: You know, it was in the midst of all of this difficult time when I first met you and got to know you- JL: Right. CB: - and respect who you are. And I must confess, I had very little idea of the challenges you were facing, and you just worked. And I'm not saying that it was a stoic part of you, but it was a part of you that you didn't feel sorry for yourself. You just worked very hard. JL: [ Laughs] Right. CB: Talk about that. I am so amazed at what you've accomplished, and Eric, during that period of time. JL: You know, it helped tremendously to know that that's something that he wanted to have happen. That he was the one that really helped kind of nudge us, if you will. It was a little stronger than a nudge. Probably a nice gentle push down that road of education and pursing a higher level education; so fortunately, because we started about the same time he was diagnosed, we knew how important that was to him. Yeah, there was definitely a sense of work, and a need to achieve this, and to basically plow through this, even though it was the most difficult time of my life in terms of trying to balance my family, my four young kids, you know, this new work mantle that has just been placed on me in terms of the business and continuing the business forward, and at the same time getting this 35 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 education. But, fortunately, we were extremely passionate about this, because I felt like I was carrying this forward. [ Pauses] ( I was really hoping we wouldn't get to anything that would touch on emotions. I didn't bring a handkerchief or anything. I am not an emotional person, so this surprising.) CB: It's okay. It shows who you are. It shows you're caring; your love, your concern, your worth. JL: It was something that was just- oh wow! CB: Talk about it. JL: - something that I wouldn't just achieve for us. You know, the business, moving the business forward, accomplishing that degree, getting that education, you know, it was for him. And it's something that, even since he's been gone for the last four years, you know, he's still with us, and we feel his presence often, whether it's personal decisions and important times of our life, or even business decisions, he's there. You know, he's been a factor in my life, whether he's still here. In the early years alive and with me and working side by side with me, or even from the other side, there's a strong presence there. It's been a blessing. It's an odd blessing, and anyone who loses their father at a young age, really for me at fifty- four is a young age to lose your dad, it's still a blessing, because he's there, and we feel his presence, and it's tremendous. CB: I want to shift gears. JL: Me too! [ Laughing] CB: Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for, I don't know, giving us the honor. JL: No problem. M: Do you want a Kleenex? 36 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 JL: Um, sure, yeah. You know, actually, I'm okay. M: Are you okay? JL: Yeah, I'm all right. It's just the eyes. M: You look good. Okay. JL: As long as the eyes look okay. M: He looks good. CB: He looks great! JL: [ Laughs] CB: Okay, what I want to do now- take a deep breath- JL: All right. CB: - is, I want to talk about this last stage in your life- JL: Okay. CB: - and Xactware. So about that same time, when he passed away, you've got the mantle, you're running this company. It's your baby now. JL: Yeah. CB: Things start happening. You shared with me at the beginning in your office, things start happening in the universe surrounding Xactware. JL: Right. CB: You want to talk about that for the next five minutes or so that leads us up to the ISO acquisition where you are today? JL: Sure, okay. CB: And that will wind us up. 37 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 JL: Okay, that's great. Yeah, no about, well, I mean, that was one of the things my dad was brilliant at as a true entrepreneur and business owner. He was always brilliant at strategy. Over the course of the years of the business he would constantly get approached by larger organizations that operate within this space, the space being the property insurance industry; and he would always entertain those conversations and always enjoy those conversations, because he'd come back and he would tell us, " It's amazing what they'll share with you." You know, it was the competition, which is a very large organization would come and constantly knock on our door, and " Hey, any chance you'd be open to an acquisition?" And, of course, he would listen. We weren't openly, actively looking for any type of opportunity that way. That was never his goal. In fact, he would talk a lot at different entrepreneurial forums, whether it was down at UVU or BYU, and that question would always come up, " What's your harvest strategy? What are you looking to do with the business?" and he'd always respond and say, " I have none. I created this business for my family and for my way of life. This is what I love. This is what I enjoy doing. This is my passion." He never had any sort of strategy in that regard. Now during the course of the last year of his life, as we talked about succession plans and strategies moving forward, that was something that we did talk about in terms of, " Well, should we sell the business?" Ironically, we all came back, myself, my brother, and my dad, and said, " Absolutely not! We love it too much. We definitely shouldn't!" And it's really quite ironic, because right about that same point in time the word starts getting out that the founder of Xactware and the current CEO is dealing with leukemia, and there's some changes that are in the air for Xactware. So those knocks on the door 38 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 started happening again. Many of those same organizations started approaching us, and my dad gave us the same advice that he always lived by, and that is, " Absolutely listen!" you know. " Definitely sit down and talk with them and listen." So what amounted to some casual conversations grew and involved, after my dad passed away in 2005, and some changes were happening to where essentially we ended up having some conversations with a great organization called ISO. ISO is our industry's longest living organization, if you will, in terms of the number of years they've been operating within this space, and most respected and most prestigious. They had actually approached my dad earlier, about probably six years previous, six to eight years previous, and had numerous conversations about potentially acquiring the business. They didn't go anywhere, but the reason I bring that up is because I had the great fortune of having him discuss those conversations, even being a part of those conversations, to a small extent, and knowing that he had a tremendous amount of respect for that organization and more importantly for the people within the organization and the culture. And so, as we began to be approached by these different organizations, a long story short, there was a nice fit with ISO. More importantly, the culture was a tremendous fit for our organization in becoming an ISO company, and then continuing to enable and allow myself to run the business like I do today, just like I did back in 2005, and continue to take it to the next level, and continue to achieve great things for the business. So in August of 2006, Xactware did become part of the ISO family of companies. We're now one of approximately thirteen different companies that are independently owned by ISO and operate under the ISO family of companies and operate collectively, 39 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 and it's enabled us to do some great things. They, much like myself, have a tremendous appetite for some extremely intriguing things to me personally, which are things like international growth, continued growth and development of our products and services outside of just the insurance vertical, but potentially into some other verticals, which we are now evaluating very seriously such as mortgage and lending, where they have businesses that operate within that space, which makes it very easy for us to partner up with those businesses and provide new capabilities and new services to a corollary industry that operates very close to us. So it just enabled us to do some additional great things and propel the business onward and upward. It's been a tremendous relationship, tremendous marriage, since it's occurred back in August of 2006. And most importantly, the culture has been a great fit. They have the same values that we do as a business, in terms of the importance of the employee, and taking care of the families of the employees, and creating a family- like environment for employees here at Xactware and at ISO. So it's been something that's been very, very good, and we continue to enjoy that relationship to this day. CB: Sounds like you're having fun again. JL: Yeah, I'm definitely having fun, no question about it. CB: Yeah, yeah. And where I want to shift one last time is to something that is a question that we ask, have asked, every individual, and that is, what advice or what message or what values- and you've mentioned, you've touched on this off and on, now's an opportunity for you to bring those together- what lessons in life, what values you hold dear about being an individual, being a businessman, in particular, that you could share with us sort of in a wrap- up sort of way. They might come across as advice, or they 40 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 might just come across as these are the things you hold dear, in terms of just being a person. JL: Sure. CB: Do you want to share those with us? JL: There's so much to talk about, so I'll try to keep this brief. In terms of advice and, you know, ways to conduct yourself, ways to propel yourself forward and have success in business, without question, as you can tell from just my story, there's been a huge emphasis on education, from getting a computer science degree to going forward and getting a higher education and getting an MBA through the University of Utah. That's always been an emphasis in my life and also the life of all my employees. We've actually helped fund over half a dozen different MBAs just in the last couple of years alone for great employees working for the organization. So in terms of looking at ways of achieving success, if you will, from a business standpoint or even from a family standpoint, it's important to find your passion and to continue to go on that path of where you're passionate about. Obviously, as you can tell today, I have a tremendous passion for this business. That's why I'm still here today working for this business. You know, I'm very much in a position where I could go off and live the retired life. I'm not even forty yet, but I could do that. There's no need to do that, and there's no desire to do that. This is what I'm passionate about. I love this business. I love the people within this business. So, as I look at the core values of that, it's just, you know, we've created a family- centered business here where the employees themselves are part of the Xactware family, where we value their families. You know, we hold events twice a year that are centered around the employees through our business. 41 Jim Loveland 11 September 2009 42 From a value standpoint, definitely find something you're passionate about. Conduct yourself at the highest level of integrity every step of the way. Work hard at it, with a balance. Make sure you balance your business life with your family life. Work just as hard at your family life as you do your business life, and you definitely will achieve success, without question! CB: Thank you. JL: Thank, Cal. CB: Thank you so much. JL: I appreciate it. CB: Wonderful story, interview, message. JL: Well I appreciate it, thanks. END OF INTERVIEW