Freed, Peter Q, Dave, and Kristen Interview

Peter Q. Freed, Dave Freed, and Kristen Freed Interview--Peter Freed along with his brothers Robert, Dave and Dan, bought Lagoon Amusement park in 1946, turning it into a commercially viable amusement park, by adding elements of live entertainment and involving history as a means of improving customer experience.

PETER Q. FREED DAVE FREED KRISTEN FREED O'BAGY Salt Lake City, Utah An Interview by Cal Boardman 24 June 2008 UTAH BUSINESS HISTORY PROJECT David Eccles School of Business University of Utah THIS IS A SERIES OF INTERVIEWS WITH PETER Q. FREED, DAVE FREED, AND KRISTEN FREED O'BAGY ON JUNE 24, 2008. THE INTERVIEWER IS CAL BOARDMAN FROM THE DAVID ECCLES SCHOOL OF BUSINESS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH. THIS INTERVIEW IS BEING VIDEOTAPED FOR THE UTAH BUSINESS HISTORY PROJECT. PETER FREED INTERVIEW: CB: But he was a good-looking guy, too. I mean, I've got pictures of him when he was a young guy, and he had a body that I certainly never had, and still don't. PF: Well, you're a good-looking guy. You're a credit to the family. CB: Sheesh. PF: [Laughing] You are! CB: But it's amazing. Mike, could you pan over to the geese at some point? Mike: Yeah, we'll get some shots of that, yeah. CB: When they come back by. Mike: Sure. CB: Or shew 'em by or something. So we rolling? Mike: Yep. CB: Okay. Peter, what I'd like to do is just ask you in your recollection to talk about the beginnings of this park. You know, how did it start? Who started it? Who had the idea? PF: Well, it depends on how far you want to go back. Originally it was out on a lake. It was called Lakeside, and Ernest Bamberger, who was governor of the state, started it; and the reason he started it, he had a railroad that went from Salt Lake, I think it went all the way up to Logan at one time, and he wanted to increase the ridership of the railroad, so he started this amusement park. As I say, it was out on the lake, and it was there for not two or three years is all, and the lake dried up. So they decided they had to do something, so they moved it here where there was a natural lake, and that's how Lagoon started. That was 1886 that they moved it here. CB: And they ran it. It was pretty small, though, wasn't it? PF: It started out very small. One of the first rides they had, they had a Merry-Go-Round that was pulled by a mule. They had a waterslide. There's pictures of it with women with all their hats, you know, the old fashioned hats, the big clothes. There's also a picture of a Mormon stake outing here in which all the people are dressed in vest suits, ties, and hats. Formally dressed, a hundred of them, and we've got a picture of that. It's so amazing, well, what it's come to. But, yeah, it was very small. It gradually got bigger, and during the war they stopped. The Bamberger did very well during the war hauling things between Hill Field and Salt Lake. Did really well. So Lagoon was closed all those four years. After the war there was question what would happen to it, and my older brother-the three of us came home from the war, and my older brother was kind of wondering what we would do. Somehow he got the idea of Lagoon, and he mentioned it to us. He says, "Why don't we go to Bamberger and see if they're interested in leasing it," which we did. Actually Julian Bamberger had absolutely no interest in this, absolutely none! Could care less what happened to it. We came out here and looked at it, and honestly, as I say, it had been closed for four years. It looked like a ghost town. It's hard to imagine. The Old Rollercoaster was there. It looked terrible. The Merry-Go-Round was there. It was all covered up. It was not exciting to see in the least. But, we thought, you know, this is a chance for the four brothers to do something. So we talked to Bamberger and asked him if he would lease it. We didn't have enough money to do anything else. He was delighted to lease it. That's actually how it all started. CB: And the names of the three? PF: David was the oldest, Dan was next, Robert was next to that, and myself. My brother, Bob, he loved the theater. He absolutely adored it, and really wanted to go into it. When he came out here, it kind of was the same idea of the theater, and he absolutely fell in love with it. The early part of Lagoon really belongs all to him. I mean, he came out here and worked day and night on it. As I say, the start of Lagoon really was him. CB: How old were you when you first started? PF: I was twenty-five. CB: What was your first job? PF: My first job out here was-Bamberger had started getting organizations to come to Lagoon, and, of course, they hadn't done it for four years. That was my job, to try and activate these companies to come to Lagoon for a picnic during the summer. So I went around to all of these. Most of them were not very interested in it, but we gradually got a few of them to come out. And as we got some to come out, more came out. CB: So your strategy for getting these companies to come out for the picnics- PF: For picnics. We would offer them lots of things. Originally we had about three picnic boweries, very old, old decrepit picnic boweries. We would say, you can have this bowery for yourself. We'd reserve it. We'll have a welcome sign for you saying ‘Welcome whatever-the-name-of-the-company-is to Lagoon.' And then if they wanted drinks, we would bring drinks to them. It started very small, like everything else, started small. Actually, the picnic business at Lagoon is absolutely paramount to it now. That's one of the major reasons that we've done as well is because of the picnics. Also, I started with the schools, asking them, even before the schools, East, West, and South High came to Lagoon before the war, so, of course, I went to them first and asked them if they'd come back. South High was the first one to come out. Then I went down to Jordan High School and asked them to come. They came. That was the start of it. Now we have schools from all over; not only all over Utah, but we have them from Montana, we have some from Oregon, of course lots from Idaho, Arizona, and Nevada. We have literally hundreds of schools coming out in the spring before they graduate, and that's a major part of our business. But also, as I started to say, the picnics are really the backbone of our business here at Lagoon. CB: You allow people to bring food in, didn't you? PF: Yes, we did. Of course, when we started, you know everything was so different. People have been bringing picnics to Lagoon for years and years anyway. We didn't change it, and we never have, but we are the only amusement park in the country that let people come bring in their own food and drink. CB: That's wonderful. Did you visit Lagoon before the war? PF: Yes. CB: Did you visit it as a kid? PF: Yes! Well I came out here with East High School. We'd come out here on dates. CB: So how old were you when you first visited this place? PF: Oh, we came out a little bit before that because of the swimming pool. Swimming water fit to drink, and there was hardly any place in Utah to swim in water that you felt comfortable in, and we'd come out on the Bamberger. Before we could drive we'd come out on the Bamberger, spend the day here in the swimming pool, and go back. That would probably be thirteen, fourteen years old. CB: What would that cost you? PF: Fifty cents. Bamberger was probably thirty-five cents, maybe not even that much, but it was fifty cents to swim. CB: Who do you remember back in those days that influenced you? PF: Well, of course in those days we did have a lot to do with Bamberger himself, and his wife, Edith, was very much involved. But the people that we worked so much with were people that came back to Lagoon from the old days. Dean ---?--- had been at Lagoon for several years. He went to the war. Afterwards he had no place to go, so he came back here. He knew Lagoon better than we did. So, of course, we hired him to come here, and he was very much an influence. His brother, Carl(sp), had been a gardener all his life. During the war he did some gardening up at Hill Field. When we opened, we asked him if he'd come back, and he started our gardens here at Lagoon. It was really Carl that made us realize how important the gardens were to Lagoon, you know. So they were very much involved with it. And then right now one of the most important employees that we hired in those early days was a man called Boyd Jensen, and we wanted him to take over the picnic business; you know, one of those lucky things. He's such an outstanding guy. This was back, be about 1952, he came to work at Lagoon. He was in the law department getting his law degree. He stayed here all the time he was getting his law degree. He did pass his law, worked there a couple of years. My brother called him one day and said, "Would you come back to Lagoon? We'd really like to have you." He said, "I will," and he came back and has been with us ever since. Right now, except for me, he's the oldest employee out here. You know, one of those great, wonderful things that happens to you. He's such an outstanding guy in every way! What he's brought to Lagoon is just priceless. CB: When you were a child, who was the influence in your life? Your father, your mother, your grandparents? PF: I was born too late for my grandparents. My mother was very much involved with us, and my father was too. I think he was very typical of fathers in those days. They weren't as involved with their kids as we are now, but he was. But it was my mother that would think of fun things for us to do, like going out to Saltaire, which in those days we went to Saltaire rather than Lagoon. Loved it, absolutely loved it. I would say that my mother was probably the dominant one in the family, although my father was a very strong man. CB: Well, they raised some wonderful sons. They were all boys, right? PF: All boys, yeah. CB: When you started back up at Lagoon, the brothers leased it. You each had your own responsibilities. PF: Sort of, yeah, we did, because my oldest brother was kind of the one that we went to for advice. He never actually worked out here. My brother Bob and I spent all of our time out here to begin with, but as I say, I give Bob all the credit in the world for getting us started to where we are today. Dan probably had less to do than the rest of us, because we wanted to go into the ranching business and we bought two or three ranches before we finally settled on one, but he was more involved with that than he was out here. CB: In those days you also were instrumental in bringing some very large acts, well-known entertainers-- PF: We were. CB: --to Lagoon. Among those entertainers, who do you remember the most as having the greatest impact? Who do you remember? PF: Well, Duke Ellington, Ella Fitzgerald, you name it. I don't think you could name anybody in that period of time that was prominent that didn't come to Lagoon. Johnny Cash. I can give you a list of them. Louis Armstrong came several times. Les Brown. You name 'em. They all came out here at Lagoon. Even the later ones like The Doors and Mick Jagger came out to Lagoon. Can you imagine? Later on they would only play in stadiums. They came to Lagoon! One place here on the park we've got a list of all of them that came to Lagoon. It's really incredible the ones that came to Lagoon. CB: And they started coming when, the fifties? PF: The fifties; started in the fifties. CB: What was the challenge that you felt? You know, you and I chatted beforehand about one. Do you want to talk about that? PF: I think you're kind of referring to the problem we had as far as allowing the blacks into- CB: Give us a little historical perspective, to put it in the times. PF: Well, when we took Lagoon, leased Lagoon, it was in our lease that we couldn't allow the blacks either on the dance floor or in the swimming pool; and if we did, we'd lose the lease. None of us felt good about it, and as the time went on, it was absolutely terribly embarrassing to go up to a black family that came up here-and they always looked every bit as good, maybe better, than anybody else--with their kids. They were wonderful, wonderful guests at Lagoon, and they'd want to go to the swimming pool, and we'd have to say, "We're sorry, we can't let you do that," or on the dance floor. As I say, many of our entertainers were black. These wonderful black entertainers were entertaining our guests, but the blacks couldn't go in there and listen to them. It was just horribly embarrassing, and again, I give the credit to my brother, Bob. He was more involved with it than either of my other brothers. It got to the point where he said, "We've just got to do something about this." And he talked to Julian many times; and one time he said to Julian, "How in the world can we have these black entertainers out entertaining all our guests and the blacks themselves can't come on the dance floor?" And he said, "Well, I admit I don't think that's fair." Finally he said, "Well, if you really want to do it, we'll go along with you." So we changed right there, both the blacks and the swimming pool. I think it's so interesting. Everybody was saying, "You let the blacks in the swimming pool?" you know, in those days. We did that. We have never received one single complaint, ever, since that time. And this was long before it happened around the country, long before it. In fact, one of the papers did a story on us being far ahead of our time because we allowed it out here where they weren't any place else. So I feel good about that. But, again, I give my credit to Bob. CB: Let's take just a little water break, just real quick, because I don't know about you, but I'd like a little water. [Break in interview.] CB: Let's talk about sort of the middle years, the sixties, the seventies. PF: The sixties and early seventies were the years that we had all the big entertainers out here. By that time the picnic business was a major part of Lagoon. We were expanding as much as we could, but we didn't have the money. The thing about the amusement business is we open in the spring, and everybody said, "What's new?" What's new, of course, is the major things which are the rides. It used to be in the early days that you could buy a ride for maybe seventy-five, eighty thousand dollars. And of course, they weren't anywhere near as complicated as they are nowadays, but even then we couldn't do very much as far as that was concerned. We would do it as much as we possibly could, but still the biggest ride in those days was still the Old Rollercoaster. Incidentally, that Rollercoaster was built in 1921, and it is one of the last wooden coasters still operating. In all fairness, there isn't a single board on there that was original because every single year-the wooden coaster is a year around project. Whoever is in charge of the coaster does that year round--summer, winter, fall, and spring. That's the oldest coaster ---?---. There's an organization called Coaster Enthusiasts. I don't know if you've heard of them. They're worldwide, and they had their convention out here about five years ago. The one that they loved was the old wooden coaster. CB: The Merry-Go-Round, too, is old- PF: And the Merry-Go-Round. Again, we got the Merry-Go-Round in about 1922. As I say, before that it was drawn by a mule, and they bought it used, which was typical in those days. I mean, you just didn't spend much money, and I bet they didn't pay five hundred dollars for that Merry-Go-Round. But there it is, a hand-carved Merry-Go-Round, and now it's well over a hundred years old. It's one of the prize things in the park. CB: Your family has always been so important in running this business. Could you comment about how important it is to you? How did you manage this park with all these brothers that were raised-you know, brothers are competitive aren't they? PF: Competitive, but we were lucky in our family that we did get along so well with each other. I think that we all had a lot of respect for each other. I think my older brother was wonderful in every way. Actually he kind of started the idea that no matter what we did, we would all share equally. What a wonderful thing for him to do. Of course, when I was still in school, when my brothers were still in school, he was out working, and yet whatever he did he shared with all of us. So I have to say that there was a wonderful feeling in the family. I don't think we ever resented what one was doing over the other. We seldom did anything without consulting each other on what we did. I'm the last one. I have to tell you, I sure miss them. I really miss them. CB: You lost Bob earlier. PF: Yeah, we lost Bob early, 1974. It was a terrible blow, but, again, Bob had a wonderful organization out here, and his passing didn't hurt the park. We went on. The organization was strong. We had wonderful people here, and they were loyal to us, and we went on from there. It's funny. A lot of the expansion has happened since Bob left us, but that was just because the park itself was growing, and we could afford to do some of these things that we never could before. He died in 1974. That was the year that we started Pioneer Village, which at that time was a real big thing for us, and opened it in 1976. At that time we bought the Jet Star, and that was the big ride that we had bought up to that time. So it just kind of went from there. CB: Peter, you've had a wonderful life and career. PF: Yes I have. CB: As you look back at it, what are you most proud of? PF: Well, of course I'm also proud of my family. My family is everything, everything to me. And I've been very fortunate. You can talk to my son David about this, and again, it was my older brother that did this. Gradually there came a time when he said, "I think I should buy out of Lagoon," which he did. At that time my brother Dan did, too. There came another time when my brother Bob's family said it should be one or the other. Especially my oldest son David really wanted to keep this up. John, who was working out here at the time, he like it, but he didn't particularly care whether he kept it or not. So eventually we bought everybody out so that now it's my family. Principally in my family now it's David and Kristen who are running it. I am extremely proud of both of them, and I would say that they both are extremely important to this park. CB: Thank you. You are a delight, you know that? PF: Well, thank you. CB: I look forward to you, and crossing paths again when maybe we see Doug together. PF: I hope we do. Yeah, that would be neat. CB: This is such a delight. PF: Well, thank you. I appreciate it. END OF INTERVIEW DAVID FREED INTERVIEW: CB: David--and sometimes it helps to kind of repeat the question because I'm going to [inaudible]-What's your earliest recollection of Lagoon? DF: My earliest memory is just coming here just like any other kid, except there was one difference-everything was free! So I could do anything as often as I wanted. As kids we would just run around to the front of the line and go again and again. I also, you know, had the privilege--I would bring all the kids from the neighborhood, so it didn't hurt with my popularity. But that's my earliest memory. Lagoon was so small then. We just don't realize how small it was, and we do still have a few of those rides today that were here then. There's the Terror Ride and the Merry-Go-Round. But the big thing back then was the Fun House. As kids we loved the Fun House, but the days of Fun Houses are past. That's my memory. My Uncle Bob, he was the general manager of the park, and so sometimes we'd, you know, we'd get a call at three or four in the afternoon on a Sunday just to come out to Lagoon. Bob was a flashy guy. Always drove a convertible, and so we'd pile in the convertible and come out here. It was just great. Really enjoyed it. But I never did think then I'd work here. That was never part of the plan. CB: You know, the brothers, you father and uncles, who first took the lease from the Bambergers, they each were unique individuals. DF: Oh, for sure. CB: Would you care to comment about your recollections of the brothers? DF: Well, David L. Freed, my Uncle Dave, he was at that time the patriarch of the family. His father, my grandfather, died when I was very young, and David L. honestly, you know, he was the kind of big brother everybody wants. He took care of his brothers. He brought them into the business if they wanted to come into the business, or if they wanted to do something else, he would help them. He was a financial guy. He was good at making money. He had financial connections, but the interesting thing is he shared everything equally with the others. It didn't matter who earned it. He shared it equally. So he was fantastic. You know the other thing about him, when I first started working at Lagoon, we never had a bank loan. If we needed money to finance anything, we went to David L. I'm not so sure that was any easier than getting a bank loan, because he was tough. He had good connections, and he could make it happen. Then my Uncle Bob, as I said, Bob was a flashy guy. During the fifties, sixties, seventies we had a lot of famous people out here, and Bob got to know them all. When I would come out he'd ask me if I wanted to meet them. Of course! You know, who wouldn't want to meet these guys. He enjoyed being with them. He used to take Mary Travers from Peter, Paul, & Mary riding horses over here in west Farmington. The Beach Boys, after they would do their two shows here, they would go to their house and have a party until late, late at night. But also Bob was a good manager. [Break in interview.] CB: You've already talked to me a little bit about Bob. Try to pick it up about where you were. [Pause for airplane.] DF: We're actually in the flight path for both Hill and north Salt Lake, so we get quite a bit of that. When I first started to work here, Bob was the general manger, and I had only known him as my Uncle Bob. You know, he'd been such a great uncle. When my parents went out of town I stayed with Bob and Jo Anne(sp?). When I was just a little kid he took me driving, and I'd sit on his lap, and we'd drive the car. You know, I couldn't have been more than eight or nine years old. Then I came to Lagoon. I had no idea. Bob was a manager that was relentless in follow through. He knew everything about the park. If he would ask me to do something, I learned the hard way that if I didn't do it, he would know, and then he'd come get me. We'd go out and look. I think I've tried to adopt that myself, because in this business you have to be relentless in follow through, and so I got that from Bob. Then Dan Freed was another brother, and he really wasn't involved in Lagoon. Our family's in ranching, too, and Dan did a lot with the ranch. Then my dad, Peter Freed, he's been here on and off since the late forties. I think he and Bob really started Lagoon after World War II. Lagoon had been closed during World War II, and they were the ones who operated it for a while. My dad left to go work in other family business until about the seventies, maybe late sixties. Then he came back and started working here. He's the one person at Lagoon that everybody loves, you know. He's the kind of person that can ask you to do something and people want to do it because they love him! It's not that he can't make a decision, he can. It's not that he can't be tough if he needs to be. He can. Even when he's tough, he's a nice guy, you know. So people really like Dad, and we're all lucky he's still here at eighty-seven years old. He comes to work four days a week at eighty-seven years old, which is amazing. You know the one nice thing about Lagoon, too, is that we enjoy the privilege of having a lot of long-time employees. It's not unusual to have a fifty-year employee. And we have generations of employees. That's something that makes Lagoon what it is. CB: It's a family business, not just owned, but the people who work here. DF: Lagoon is a family owned business. I'm fond of saying the bank owns it better than we ever will; they just let us use it, you know. But it is a family owned business, and if you think about it, it's run by generations of families that have been here a long time. Kids start working here at a very young age. The former general manager who had been here about forty years (he left to go on an LDS mission), his first job here at Lagoon was when he was eleven years old, and he took care of the live monkeys that were on top of the entrance to the Fun House. That was his first job. He worked here for I'm sure it's over forty years. His older brother worked here, maintained the Rollercoaster, did a lot of jobs that way for a number of years. His father worked here, and his sister, Jo Anne Robinson married my Uncle Bob, so she and their family have been involved with Lagoon. CB: Let's talk about the female influence just for a second. The history is full of the stories of the brothers, as well as yourself. To what degree were the wives and daughters and sisters an influence on this place? DF: Well, as I said, Lagoon is a family business, but it's also very demanding with long hours. In the old days, I say the old days which were really the seventies, I remember coming to start the season about mid-March, and we would work easily ten, twelve hours a day, sometimes more, and I wouldn't take a day off until the end of July, so I'd be here everyday. You have to have good support, good family support. Also there are times when we'll have a really big day. Back in the old days we'd have what was called "Kennecott Day," and everybody came to work on that day. Now, like in the spring, when a lot of employees-we hire about three thousand seasonal employees during the summer, but in May a lot of them are still in school, and so we draw upon that resource. We draw upon, you know, our wives and our friends' wives to come and help us. They run rides, they do everything. They work in the food stands. I think really it was kind of an old boys club at Lagoon until the seventies. That is one change for which I will at least take partial credit; because one of the first things I did when I was here, I managed the ride division. I had a real good ride operator that was a woman, so I said, "Well, what's our toughest ride?" and our toughest ride was the wooden rollercoaster. Back then it was operated with big levers that you had to pull back and forth. You know, you had to be quick. We ran three trains back then, and so you would be dispatching a train about every thirty seconds. This woman, she was good, so I put her up there, and there was an uproar. A lot of the old timers, they couldn't believe it, you know. Some of them wouldn't even talk to me. They were so angry, but she did really well. More and more I started thinking, these female ride operators are great, and one of the reasons they're great is sometimes, not always, but sometimes if you have a male operator, they'll be running a ride, they'll hear a funny noise and they'll say, "Oh, I know what that is," and they'll blow it off. Back then the female operators we had trained, you know, to tell us if there's anything; and if they hear a tick, tick, tick, and they'll call you. It's something we want to know. We want to know if there's something going on. It's sort of turned to the point in the late seventies I think we had more female ride operators than we did male ride operators. Female managers. We started to move them up, particularly in Kiddie Land because they like working with the little kids. They really enjoyed it, and so we would appoint them as managers there. Some of the rides back then did have some strenuous physical work, but they didn't shy away from it. They were great. As these women worked here, they moved up, and then they came into management. Now we have a lot of women in management. I don't think, I've never counted, but it's no longer the old boys club. I think, you know, it definitely is an equal opportunity business. CB: The business has had, from what I can tell, different segments of lives. I mean if you take a look at the pre-war years, it was a small, very local place. After the war, the focus was growth, but it was also like in the fifties and sixties you said, entertainment. And then Bob passes away tragically early, and it enters another segment, it seems, where the rides now-there's this explosive growth (maybe that's not the right word) in rides. Can you comment about what brought that about? DF: Sure. As I said, in the fifties, sixties, and the early seventies we did have a lot of entertainers here. It was a great time. One thing, Lagoon has to draw from a smaller population base than most parks around the country, and so we're always more frugal. We didn't have a lot of investment capital to use. You know, the nice thing about entertainers is we would bring them in, and they would immediately at least generate what they cost, which is a good thing. So, we would do that; but in the late 1960s and early 1970s, if you remember, in the country it was a time of free spirits and flower children, you know, a lot of experimentation, a little bit of rebellion, whatever. We started noticing that the crowds that were coming to the entertainment were less and less of a family-oriented crowd. Lagoon is a family park. Lagoon cannot survive on just the teen market, or, you know, one segment. We have to appeal to everyone. I do remember my Uncle Bob one time we had had in succession some entertainers that really did draw a different crowd-Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and some of those, and he said, "We just have to make a change. We can't do that anymore." It's not that we just cut off entertainment; not at all! We kept entertainment. We did do more country western. And at the same time, groups were getting more expensive. I remember hearing that, you know, we could get a good act for three, four thousand dollars a weekend. Everyone knows the Beetles. They were willing to come to Lagoon, and we talked about do we want to bring the Beetles, but the Beetles wanted twenty thousand dollars! We just couldn't even imagine paying that kind of money when we were getting the Rolling Stones for four or five, you know, who did come to Lagoon. The only way to do that is if you have a venue that's large enough to generate enough people to pay it back, and Lagoon didn't have that, so we had to make a change. Also, when Bob died in 1974, he was the connection. He had done some self-promoting, but he knew all the promoters, and so we did start getting away from that for the reasons that I've said. We had to start slow. It wasn't explosive growth, because we just couldn't afford it, but we did start seeing the need to increase ride capacity. People in Utah do not like to wait in line, and so if we're going to have more people come to Lagoon, we had to increase ride capacity, and we had to get rides that were attractive to them. We started out by buying used rides, and then slowly we moved up until we could purchase new rides, which we do now. There was nothing wrong with used rides. We just had to work on them a little more. We had to refurbish them before we put them into operation, and they were new to everyone here. They were new to us. In 1975 I was just coming on the scene. I did find an opportunity to buy the first steel rollercoaster for Lagoon. That was a huge deal. Steel rollercoasters had been coming on the amusement park scene since the sixties. Everybody said, "When's Lagoon going to get a steel rollercoaster?" So I was at the convention. There was a steel rollercoaster that had been used a short period of time at the Spokane World's Fair. It was for sale, and we bought it. I remember we set it up. We loaded a car with sandbags, we let it go, and we all started laughing because we could not believe that that vehicle could go through those tight turns that fast. It was just astonishing, and we're in the business! We had never seen anything like that. That ride's still here today, the Jet Star II. With that ride then you have to do something a little better. You're always trying to do a little more. We're not just a ride park. We do have entertainment. We do have Pioneer Village. We do have picnic grounds. To my knowledge we are the only amusement park in the country that allows guests to bring their own food into the park, and because of that our per caps in food are lower than anybody's; but that's the culture here, so we try to be well rounded. CB: Hey, you took over when? What year was that? DF: Well, when you say I took over, that's why we're all talking to you and not just me is because as a family business we all have our own responsibilities, we all have things we do, we all make our own contributions. Growing up I always felt I didn't necessarily own Lagoon, I was just the keeper of the asset, and my job was to make sure we didn't blow it, to take good care of it, and then pass it to the next generation. We work together, we really do. We don't make a big decision unless my father, my sister, and I, who are generally the management group, unless we all agree. Sometimes each of us will push a little bit, but, you know, that's fair. But we all contribute. Just like my Uncle Dave, it's pretty equal. Honestly, I think, well, to answer your question, I did become president of Lagoon probably about 1994 is my memory, right in that area. CB: Has the park entered another phase? DF: When you say, "Has it entered another phase…"? CB: Well, there was sort of the entertainment phase, and then there was the ride phase. Is there another phase, or is it sort of brining it all together? Or is it- DF: Well, Lagoon is a traditional amusement park as opposed to say a theme park. Theme parks really are centered around one theme. Lagoon being as old as it is, for example, it's built on a grid system which is not the most efficient in terms of revenue generation. If you go to a theme park you kind of make a loop, and you pass every revenue center, and you have an opportunity to spend your money at every revenue center. Whereas Lagoon is not that way. Lagoon is a ride park, but at the same time we do have themed areas. I think if you're asking have we entered a different phase, I would say, again, our mission is really to be the number one choice for family entertainment in this area. That's what we're about, so we try to do that. Sometimes it's with rides. In 1989 it was with Lagoona Beach. We didn't try to install the biggest water park in the world. We just wanted to make that an element of the mix. One thing about amusement parks--amusement parks, if you think about it, they are cutting edge technology. If it was old mundane stuff, nobody'd come. Amusement parks are cutting edge technology, and so that has to be part of what we do now. Two years ago (this is actually the second year), we installed the Wicked Rollercoaster. The technology there is mind boggling. In fact, we were so fearful of the safety system with its five computers and five different languages that we hired a software firm to come in and learn the software, learn how to program that, just in case something happened. We never called them; we never called them! But if you look at that coaster, it's magnetic drive. It's magnetic brakes. I mean, it's cutting edge technology. The American Coaster Enthusiasts, which are the premier rollercoaster association actually in the world, they rated Wicked the number one new rollercoaster in the world, and said it was likely to be that for several years to come! And it's right here in Farmington, Utah. CB: Wow, that sound byte was fabulous. DF: Oh good, okay. CB: Lagoon has quite a reputation in the amusement park industry. It's not only been a trendsetter for reasons that your dad spoke about and that you have spoken about, but it's also been of interest as an acquisition target. Could you just comment about Lagoon's place in the amusement park industry, and any more that you'd like to say about that? DF: It is true. My opinion, my observation, Lagoon is well respected in the amusement industry. It's always been a well-managed park, because as I told you, we don't have as large a demographic from which to draw guests, and so we have to do a little bit better. We do have to manage money better. In addition to that, safety is the number one priority at Lagoon. Everything is about safety, and we do it well. Lagoon has a better safety record as far as I know than any other amusement park in the country! We do it for a number of reasons-survival. You know, safety's good business. And at the same time, we do not want to go through an incident, you know, any kind of an incident. Many people in the industry look to Lagoon as far as safety is concerned. Lagoon has been able to hire the internationally recognized, number one safety official in the world! He's also seventy-eight years old or so right now, but he works here at Lagoon. Lagoon has if not the number one amusement ride engineer in the world, he's in the top five. Very well known, very well respected. Also we've had good creative people. Lagoon is a nice park. It's in a nice area. It's a family park, so we do get contacted frequently about wanting to know--the saying is, "Would you like to become liquid?" or, you know, "Would you consider a merger?" We have looked at that over the years. Premier Parks started out in Oklahoma, and they bought Frontier Village in Oklahoma, and then they went to the East Coast and they started buying family parks, and they just moved west, all across the country. Bought most of the family owned parks. Came to Lagoon. Made us a phenomenal offer. Even our bankers were surprised at this offer, and then they went to buy Six Flags. So now Premier Parks is Six Flags that everyone knows. But we talked about it long and hard. First of all, if you do get liquid, then you have to figure out what you're going to do with that money, and where would we rather put it than right here? The other thing is, all of us, it's sort of in our blood--we don't retire! We run the amusement park, and so we all thought, "What would we do?" If we sold Lagoon, what would we do? In the end, we all decided that we wanted to stay here and do this at least a while longer. But we do have to have good management people coming up in order to keep this going, and so as a family business we do try and get family to come in. Lagoon has been very fortunate in being able to have good long-term employees that we bring up in management, so if anything does happen to one of us, life goes on, the park goes on, and hopefully it remains great. CB: Thank you. Okay, I've got three questions left. The first may take us five minutes to eight minutes, then we'll do a change tape. And this one is, while we're still talking about the rides, what's your ride of the future? I mean, you going to levitate people from place to place? [Laughing] What do you think the ride of the future is? DF: Lagoon is looking for new rides all of the time. As I said, it has to be cutting edge technology, but still the cutting edge technology is rollercoasters. Amusement parks around the country and in the industry, we all think you can't have too many rollercoasters. Having said that, you know the new ride is doing something different with that rollercoaster. So at Lagoon right now we are actively looking long term for another fantastic rollercoaster that has to be just a little bit better than the one we put in. We've been talking to manufacturers. Most of the good equipment is built in Europe, so there is a huge barrier to entry right now because the Euro is so strong, and we're dealing with that. But we have one on the drawing board. It's been designed, and it is fantastic, it really is! That is the new technology. There's some direction towards simulators, and they can do some great simulators now. It's amazing. You can honestly feel like you are there. You can become motion sick. You can, you know, they create smells. They create different temperatures. It really is fantastic. The one thing about that that has always had us take a step back is most the time they're simulating things that we can create here, and it costs more to simulate them then it does to just do it! And so we bring in whatever it is, and we try to do it. CB: That's wonderful. Thank you. I can't wait. [Tape change.] CB: You mentioned in the course of the questions about particularly your uncles and your dad and the influence they've had on this park; and the things that you watched them do, you tried to incorporate in your life. But I wanted to come back and give you an opportunity to comment about anyone else, including them, but if there's anyone else-your mother, or an associate of the family, or friend of the family, and it could be somebody we've already talked about, that person who really had an influence on you, to mention who it might be and why. DF: Because we are a family business, because my whole life I've been associated with the family businesses, whatever they are, I think the real role models in my life have been my family. My uncle, David L. Freed, never let me down, you know. He was a great role model. In our family we all want to be able to do it as good as David L. We all want to have people respect us the way people respected him. He died when he was ninety-three, but he worked until he was ninety-three, and he was a gruff old guy. Sometimes it was embarrassing to listen to him talk to people because he was so rough with them, but they loved him! They really loved him. My uncle, Robert E. Freed, honestly, was a great influence. I could always look to him and say, hey, if I'm in that same position, I want to do it just like him. My father, Peter Freed, I got to tell you, in our family we all want to be like our father. My mother was a great lady, but we all wanted to be like our father. He's an amazing man. He is impeccably honest and genuine. He's insightful. People, as I've said before, people just love it. In business I have admired a number of people. I have a friend, Bill Wirthlin. Bill can say it better than anyone. When I've got a problem I often call Bill. He is so quick with a great answer. Sometimes you wonder, why didn't I think of that? He is a wonderful confidant. I've been impressed with Bill my whole life. Bill and I were on the swim team together in high school, but we really didn't become friends until college and after college. We haven't done a lot of business deals together. We've sort of been associated, but Bill Wirthlin, he's also been a great role model. In all honesty, there's a lot of great role models. I think people spend their lives looking at how other great people do it. In my life I don't necessarily read about them, but when I meet them I think I'm pretty good identifying, hey, that is someone to whom I should pay attention, and see if I can learn something, so I try to do that. CB: Thank you, thank you. I'll mention it to Bill. DF: [Laughing] You better not. CB: No, he's such a great guy. I really respect him as well, plus I learn a lot from him. DF: He's a good man. CB: Whenever we get together I learn. He's got me signed up for the Leakey Foundation [inaudible]. DF: Good. I think we're going to that, too. CB: So, the last deal is, so a student comes up, hits the button, and in the course of listening, I'd like for you to share with them a value that you most cherish in business people, or advice you'd like to give them. What message would you like the student who looks to you as a role model? DF: I would say to any young person, the first thing is honesty and integrity. You have to have that. People will find out if you don't. You will trip yourself up if you don't. You have to be honest. You have to have integrity, and you have to, as much as you possibly can, do things the right way. The second thing I would say, and we see this now so much in young people, we talk about it. There's a real dearth of young people that have a fantastic work ethic. I don't know what happened. Maybe back in the old days when you worked on the farm you learned early all about work and hard work, and, you know, you had to do it right the first time and every time. We hire three thousand young people here a year, and so many of them come with no work ethic. They don't necessarily know how to work, they don't necessarily feel it's important to show up to work everyday, or to show up on time. They don't think it's important to look professional. Again, people pay attention. We pick out the kids with a good work ethic immediately, and those are the young people that progress through the company. They can go into management if they want to. A number of people say they want to work in marketing, and we look at the work ethic. We say, "Hey, has this person been successful? Do they have a good work ethic where they are?" And if they are, they can go anywhere. Okay? Thank you. CB: Thank you! END OF INTERVIEW KRISTEN FREED O'BAGY INTERVIEW: KO: My earliest memory of this place? Driving out with my family, visiting the Robinsons in Farmington, and taking a hayride down to Lagoon, and coming to the park that way. CB: How old were you? KO: Four or five, with my twin sister, Ann. That's my earliest memory. CB: Did you bring your boyfriends on dates here? KO: Never. [Laughing] Never! CB: Why? KO: As kids we were a little bit embarrassed to have this as our business, and so we did not bring our boyfriends out here. Not 'til later on did we bring our boyfriends out here. So in high school we did not come to Lagoon that often. So we came one time with the school, and then after that we kind of stayed away. CB: Where did you go to high school? KO: I went to East High School. CB: Good. I live close by. That's great. So what was your first job here? KO: My first job was ticket taker at the old Fun House. I was in ninth grade, so I was fourteen years old, and I lasted half of the summer. Then I decided I didn't want to work out here, so I didn't come back until after college. CB: What brought you back? KO: My brother, Dave, brought me back to Lagoon. He wanted me in the business, and so I came to work for him in the ride office. I came out-it was somewhat difficult coming out at first being a family member, because other people are watching, and he wanted me to be a ride manager. So he brought me out, and he trained me on every single one of the rides so that I could train on the rides, and be over all the ride operators, and work for him with a woman. Her name was Tibby(?), and she helped train me, and then she moved on, and I stayed in rides in her position. CB: What was your favorite ride back in those days? KO: Rollercoaster. It was always my favorite ride. The White Rollercoaster, which is no longer the White Rollercoaster because we've decided that we're not painting it any longer, and it will be natural, natural in color. So as you watch through the years, the old white boards will be replaced with new boards in a natural color. CB: What does natural mean, rusted? KO: No [laughing]. Natural color is more of a brown wood color, cedar color. CB: How many times have you ridden that? KO: How many times have I ridden the Rollercoaster? Hundreds and hundreds of times I've ridden the Rollercoaster. I love the White Rollercoaster. CB: You are now in management, right? KO: I am in management. CB: And you've got a lot of things that you do. KO: I do. CB: What are those departments and areas? KO: Well, I like to think that in my position I do all things in the park with my brother and my father, but my areas of expertise is the Front Gate, so when you come into the park and buy a ticket, auto park and the park, that's my area. My area is also entertainment. I'm over the entertainment. I'm over the campground. Then I have small rides on the park like the Sky Coaster, Double Thunder, and the Catapult. Those are my main areas of expertise. CB: One of the notes I have said that you also handled complaints. KO: I personally don't handle very many complaints. I'm over the Guest Service Office, and I have very good people who are excellent at handling complaints, so I let them do it. It becomes a little personal for me when someone comes in with a complaint, so I feel it's better that I'm behind the scene, and if they need help, then I'll come help them. But most often I have people who are very good at that. CB: Is it true there's a legend, and if this legend is true, if you wouldn't mind repeating it, because I didn't ask your dad about it, but there's a legend that somebody came to him and said that Peter Freed was a close friend of his- KO: Oh, you're heard this? CB: --and I've got a complaint, but it was to Peter? KO: It's true. There is a story about my father where a woman was very irate, and he was helping her with the complaint, and she wasn't satisfied with his answer, and finally she said to him, "I know Peter Freed personally, and I know when I contact him he will help me." And my father, he's a very gentle person, he didn't embarrass her, and he just said, "You go ahead and write a letter to Peter Freed," and that is the legend. He's very good. He's very gentle, and he'll never embarrass anybody. CB: I'd like for you to talk about, because this is a family business, family owned business now- KO: Family owned business. CB: I mean the family leased it, but then became owners of it. What's unique about working in a family owned business to you? KO: What's unique about working in a family owned business, it's actually a lovely experience to be with your family. But it's also difficult because people outside the family-you need to work harder than everybody else. They expect more from you than from everybody else. I think you personally expect more from yourself than everybody else, but the wonderful part is every day I see my father, my father Peter, who is now eighty-seven years old; and every day I work with my brother, Dave. I think the unique thing is that we work together, we play together, we live life together, we enjoy being with each other, and I feel like we're very fortunate to be able to have this business so all of us can be together as a family. CB: That's wonderful. If you chose a characteristic of your father that you most admired- KO: A characteristic of my father that I most admire? He has so many things that I admire. He's very patient. He is very loving. He is very honest. I don't think my father has a bad characteristic. I think he's wonderful. My father is my hero. CB: I'm going to have a hard time asking [inaudible]. I think that is so cool. What are your memories of your uncles? KO: My memories of my uncles. My Uncle Bob died when I was just going into high school, so my earliest memories are not here at Lagoon, they're up at our cabin, and riding horses with my uncle. He was so full of life and so much fun, and he made it fun for all the kids. He and his wife, Jo Anne Freed, they were a wonderful couple to watch. I remember the two of them riding horses holding hands. Those are probably the earliest ones for me because I didn't work with my uncles. When I came out here it was my cousins and my immediate family. And then my Uncle (we called him Dew) David. He was what we call the patriarch of the family. His relationship with my dad was very close. There were four brothers, and they always had business together. They all got along. They all shared equally no matter who did what job. My Uncle Dew, he was also a tennis player. He was instrumental in Utah Tennis, and he was a wonderful businessman and a wonderful uncle, but he was gruff but very gentle at the same time. If you could see through his gruffness, you know. I was very shy as a child, and he would bring me out by teasing me and using that gruffness, and it worked. I guess those are my two earliest memories of my uncles. CB: Why was he called Dew? KO: When he was, I believe, while growing up my father had a hard time saying his name, and he called him Dew. CB: I'll be darned. KO: But I could be wrong on that [laughing] so you may not want that question. CB: I was just curious. KO: Okay. CB: I hear things, and I'm going, "Ooh, that's [inaudible]. I'm interested about that." KO: But it might have been Davey, so that's why I'm not sure I've got that story right. CB: I called my grandmother "Mother G." KO: Oh, I like that. CB: You were hearing me tell your dad about it, that when I lived on the farm I had my mom, but I had this other mom- KO: Right. CB: And then had this dad that was next to my granddad I called dad. I was a little kid. I didn't know anything, but I had two moms. KO: Right. CB: How was I going to tell the difference between this mom and this mom? Well this mom's name is Grace. This was mom, and this was Mother G. KO: I like that. CB: And then from then on the family always called her Mother G. KO: That's great. CB: Departed from us for a long time, but, I mean, those are the stories that are kind of fun sometimes. KO: They're nice. CB: He couldn't say David, and yet that was his own name? KO: Well, and I could be wrong in that. Yeah, but he was called Dew all my life. CB: That's great. Daddy Dew. KO: Yeah [laughing], and he was Dew to everybody. CB: Another thing that strikes me about this park is not just that your family has worked here and run it and owned it, but it's also a place where other families worked. Do you want to comment about the other families that have worked here? You know, they're grandfathers and fathers and kids-I mean, this is an amazing thing that I don't know that you would see at other amusement parks in this country. Would you comment about the families who work here? KO: I think we're unique where we do have many families, generation after generation, come work at Lagoon, and I think the reason behind that is we try to treat it not like a corporation, but that everyone is family. So many times they start when they're fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years old, and they work here through their college years, and then their children after that come back and work here as well, because they hopefully had a good experience working here. They want their children to work here, and they learn good values--honesty, hard work, responsibility-we hope that, because we create a family atmosphere for them, they want their families to work here. And we have had several generations that have worked out at the park, so it's very nice for us as well. CB: How many of your family have lived in Farmington and around? Does everybody live in Salt Lake and just commute out? KO: My immediate family? My immediate family always lived in Salt Lake City, and we commuted from Salt Lake to Farmington. CB: Why is that? KO: Well, we love to be in the city, and back then we just loved it. My mother wanted to live in the city. She was from Bountiful, my mother Christy(sp?). She went to the University. My father grew up on South Temple, and I think they never wanted to leave Salt Lake, and as much as we love Farmington, we love Salt Lake City. It's a fairly easy commute now, and that's why we live in Salt Lake but work out in Farmington. CB: There is now a train stop not far from here, right? KO: Correct. CB: How far is it? KO: The train stop is across the freeway, and we do have a Lagoon shuttle everyday but Sunday, that for free will take you over to the Front Runner, and that way people can come both from Ogden and from Salt Lake, and hopefully further later on, and ride up here with just the fee of the train, and then they're picked up for free and brought into the park. CB: Have you found that very many people are yet starting to use it? KO: Not yet. Not yet. We don't feel people are using it. They're still taking the buses. I think right now they feel that the Front Runner is a little expensive, and so they have not picked up on that yet. We hope they will, and we hope more than anything that our employees will pick up on it, and so we might get employees from long distance. As you know, it's a tight market. It's harder and harder to get employees in the surrounding area, so we're hoping that if they have a youth pass that they will come to Lagoon using the train. CB: It's probably a good business opportunity, a marketing tool. KO: Very good business opportunity. CB: I would imagine. KO: Very good. CB: Where, you know, you have a Front Runner ticket, we'll give you fifty cents off your Lagoon ticket or something. I don't know. KO: Right. CB: I don't know what. KO: We haven't. Because it's so new we haven't put any promotions with the train, but we hope to in the future. And right now there is a youth pass for kids sixteen and under. Eighty-five dollars for June, July, and August, so that's good. CB: You've talked about your dad, and maybe this is going to be your answer, too. Who do you think has been the greatest influence in your life? KO: The greatest influence in my life? I do feel my father is the greatest influence in my life. There wasn't anything he didn't think I could accomplish. He never held me back from doing anything. He's always been very confident in anything I wanted to do. I feel that he's the one that influenced me the most. I hope that I can be the person that he is. CB: What business lesson did you learn from him that sticks out in your mind? KO: The business lesson from my father is that he worked hard, that work was very, very important, but so was family. But he taught me that you must accept responsibility. That follow through is very important-like someone raking leaves and just leaving piles. My father said you just don't leave the pile; you pick up everything and finish! And I think just that. Follow through was one of the most important things that he taught me. CB: I understand that he, and well, your brother, in many ways helped Lagoon be a trend setter in issues of diversity. For example, early on when the issues about the blacks in the swimming pool and stuff got resolved because of your father and your uncle, and then later your father and your brother having an influence of increasing the number of female employees. KO: I think, for my father and my brother, it never occurred to them not to have female employees, and I think they embraced differences. I feel both of them think women can do everything a man can do. I don't think it even occurred to them otherwise. CB: So when a female student comes up and touches the screen and sees you there, and you have an opportunity to say, "You know, as a woman business owner, this is important," what would you say to them? KO: As a woman business owner I think it's important to be fair to everyone. I think it's important to be honest and accepting of people. I think it's important not to compete so much with others that it distorts your views in business, and just to do the best you can do, and not try to be someone else. I guess that's what I would say to anyone trying to come into business. CB: I like that. Thank you. I think this has been a wonderful interview. I don't know what you were nervous about. KO: I think I'm not very good [laughing], so are we- CB: You've been fabulous! KO: Well, thank you. CB: And we've managed to use up more than the twenty minutes I thought, so- KO: Well, you're great. Thank you. You have a little spider right there. [Laughing] CB: Thank you. KO: May I get it? It's this one right here. Oh, I don't kill spiders. CB: Good, I don't either. KO: There it is. I'll let you get it off. I don't kill anything. [Laughing] CB: Thank you for being so willing to do this. END OF INTERVIEW END OF FREED FAMILY INTERVIEWS