Oral History Interview with Dr. Clay Christiansen, November 21, 2024

Dr. Clay Christiansen, a renowned Organist and Choir Master, recounts his musical journey from growing up in Emery County, Utah, to his nearly 36-year tenure as a Tabernacle Organist. He details his early musical influences, including his grandmother and various teachers like Janis Siggard and J.J. Keeler, and his advanced studies at BYU and the University of Utah, including Master's and Ph.D. work. The interview covers his time at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral, his professional career with the Tabernacle Choir, including tours to Europe and Israel, and his belief in the spiritual and community-building power of music. The conversation also touches on his family's musical heritage and his ongoing connections to Emery County and the Price/Carbon County area.

TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Dr. Clay Christiansen Place of Interview for Interviewee: Christiansen Residence in Bountiful, UT Date of Interview: November 21, 2024 Interviewer: Liz Bryner Place of Interview for Interviewer: Christiansen Residence in Bountiful, UT Recordist: Liz Bryner Recording Equipment: Samsung S24 phone, Voice Recorder app Transcription Equipment: Otter.ai software Transcribed by: Liz Bryner Transcript Proofed by: Liz Bryner Brief Description of Contents: Dr. Clay Christiansen, a renowned Organist and Choir Master, shared his musical journey from Emery County to his career at the Tabernacle. He discussed his early musical influences, including his grandmother and various teachers, and his extensive education at BYU and the University of Utah. Christiansen highlighted his 36-year tenure as a Tabernacle Organist and his contributions to the Tabernacle Choir. He also recounted significant performances, such as in Israel and Europe, and emphasized the spiritual and community-building power of music. The conversation also touched on his family's musical heritage and his ongoing connections to Emery County. 1 BRYNER: Well, it's Thursday, November 21 and I'm here with Dr. Clay Christiansen in his home. It's such a pleasure to meet with you. And could you… just introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself? CHRISTIANSEN: Well, I grew up in the town of Emery, in Emery County, the southernmost town, and lived there until I was 13. And when my dad died, then my mother took me and my younger four sisters, and we moved to Provo for a year when she went to BYU, which was when I started the serious organ study. And then eventually I was married before I completed my work at BYU. In fact, we were only 19 [when Diane and I married. After a year in Provo we] lived in Payson for several years. I started to raise a family. Our first two children were born in Payson. Then we moved to the Avenues in Salt Lake, where we lived for about a dozen years, and many of our 13 children were born. And most of that time, I was Organist at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral, now called The Cathedral Church of St. Mark, and was Organist Choir Master. And [I] supported myself with that part-time income and teaching many organ and piano students until I was hired as a Tabernacle organist in September of 1982. And then I served there almost 36 years, retiring in 2018 at the end of April. That's it, in a nutshell. BRYNER: Wonderful. Thank you. Do you remember what your first musical memories are? CHRISTIANSEN: Well, surely they would be the playing of the old Story & Clark, beautiful, huge, parquet wood, upright grand piano that we had in our home. It belonged to my grandmother Christiansen, my father's mother, who lived with us until I was five or six, and then she moved into her own home in Emery. But she played that piano a little bit. She and grandpa had purchased it many years before, and some of the children–I don't think my dad was ever one of them–took some piano lessons on it. There were a few books, I remember John Thompson books in the organ bench. But grandma played a bit. She played We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet, and maybe a very few other things. But I was drawn to that piano, and I started to pick up things by ear. I soon learned how to play We Thank you, O God, for a Prophet and some other hymns. BRYNER: Wonderful. CHRISTIANSEN: So,... that would be one of my first memories. You know, we didn't have television until I was 10 years old. Of course, we had radio. We listened to–we could bring KSVC in from Richfield, which I noticed is (still) down there earlier this week (when) we (went to) visit with my daughter who lives there, that KSVC is still going. But, for as long as I can remember, I was aware of the Tabernacle Choir. I suppose that I had heard it at least at General 2 Conference time on the radio. I don't know if we listened to the weekly broadcast on radio back then, maybe we did, but I was very drawn to the sound of the choir and the organ, and especially enamored with the organ. So, those would be the earliest memories. BRYNER: Wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. So when you learned We Thank Thee, Oh God, for a Prophet, were you… reading the notes or were you…? CHRISTIANSEN: No, it was all by ear. And our family was asked to do a Sacrament Meeting program in Emery Ward when I was six, and my contribution was playing We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet. BRYNER: That's a great memory. So, you said you were drawn to the sound of the choir and the organ. Can you tell me, with your training, has most of it been on the organ, or have you done choral studies as well? CHRISTIANSEN: Well, not official choral studies. My studies have been in piano, first. I studied, starting when I was eight years old with my Aunt Jean Christiansen in Emery. I went with her for a year or so, I suppose, and then she sent me to Anna Larson in Ferron, with whom I studied for a couple of years until I was 11. And then, Parley Belnap, who later became Head of the Organ Department at BYU. But this was... a number of years before that, he came through Emery stake, teaching the Twelve-Lesson Organ and Conducting Course that the General Music Committee then sent field representatives out to teach to various stakes. And it was at that time that… he counseled my mother that I might consider taking piano lessons from a lady who had just moved into Price, and that was Janis Siggard and her…. You may know of Janis and Derral Siggard. BRYNER: I got to interview Janis about a month ago. CHRISTIANSEN: Did you? Oh, wonderful, wonderful. Well, that was a very happy thing, and so I began to study with her, a lesson every other week. I would ride up with our neighbor, Dale Peacock, who had a chicken farm to raise eggs, and he took his eggs every two weeks to Price, put them in vendors, vending machines, and that sort of thing. And I rolled up with him on a Saturday, would take my lesson with Mrs. Siggard, and then ride back when Dale was through with his runs. And then that's how I was able to study with her for a year or two, and it was less than two years, during which time she had me memorize a full-length piano recital, which I performed in Emery Ward, and also over in Green River, where one of my mother's college chums lived with her husband, who was a watermelon farmer. And so that brought me up to the time that–those last few years before I … was 13, my dad was struggling with a brain tumor and… his second operation, he didn't come out of. And so mom sold the farm to my dad's youngest brother, Merlin Christiansen, who lived in Emery all of 3 his life. Aunt Jean was his wife. She was the Ward Organist. She was the piano teacher, angel of a lady, and they lived next door when I … in the early years, when I was growing up. And Merlin's family are scattered all throughout Emery County now, including in the town of Emery. And at any rate, I moved to Provo and then began organ study [with Professor J. J. Keeler, Head of the Organ Department at BYU.]. But I continued with piano study. J. J. Keeler said, “You've got to study the piano. It's essential to getting the technique that you need if you want to be a good organist, if you decide to be an organist.” At that point, I, you know, I hadn't committed. He said, “you know, you can decide if you want to go piano or eventually, or want to go organ.” So I studied piano with him, … from that time… and organ–both weekly lessons–all through junior high, the remainder of junior high, and all through high school. Though I lived in Provo for a year, and I lived in Salt Lake for a couple of years, through the 10th grade, and I would commute. Then we moved to Morgan, where my mother landed with the library job in the elementary school in Morgan until she retired. And I'd commute from Morgan down every Saturday to Provo and have a lesson on the piano and on the organ with J.J. Keeler. Piano study continued… as I started my undergraduate college work. So for a year and a half, I studied piano also with J.J. Keeler, as well as organ, and then dropped the piano,...having sufficient piano technique to become a fine, polished organist. BRYNER: Wonderful! CHRISTIANSEN: Though I did play the trumpet one year at South Emery Junior High with Miss Hatch, who was a wonderful clarinetist, who came in that year. It …seems like it was even after school had started…. The previous man… died suddenly, as I recall it…. I don't know the name, …but Miss Hatch was an influence, taught band. And I did play the trumpet for that one year. But other than that, I'm just an organ and piano man. BRYNER: That's great. Do you remember how old you were when you … felt like you wanted to pursue music? CHRISTIANSEN: Well, as long as I can remember, I could think of nothing but being a musician. It's just one of those things. I was nuts about it. BRYNER: So, this question is (already) answered somewhat. But who are your main musical influences during your childhood? Were either of your parents musical? CHRISTIANSEN: You know, not really, but they were very supportive. My dad couldn't carry a tune, I don't think. And my mother played the piano a little bit. She had some piano lessons, I would say that… it didn't come naturally to her, particularly, but she could play some. And I suppose maybe she … played that piano that we had in our home, occasionally. But, mostly, I remember my… grandmother. And when I was six and grandma moved down to another place, 4 [she] took the piano with her. And it came time for me to study piano lessons with… Aunt Jean. When I was eight, she made a keyboard replica on cardboard, you know, that I would kind of use. But soon my parents,...[were] able to have come under their possession an old pump organ that was stashed away somewhere in the old Emery School. It's long since been taken down, but… I had that pump organ that I played on. I loved that thing. It wasn't long, though, before my parents took advantage of a piano salesman who came through town. They'd bring truckloads of pianos and stop and try to sell them. And while I was at school one day in the second grade, they traded this pump organ in towards this Baldwin spinet piano. And when I came home, Mom says my first question was, “where's the organ?” BRYNER: Well, they must have seen a lot of the talent and a lot of potential… CHRISTIANSEN: They were very, very supportive. Yes, my mother paid for part of the–well, Janis Siggard,... for part of the lesson payment, [we paid with] eggs we had. We didn't have a lot of chickens, but we had more eggs than we could use, and so Mom supplied her with eggs. BRYNER: Oh, that's wonderful. Well, when I got to talk to Janis about a month ago, she just,... she was especially grateful … for all the students that she got to work with. CHRISTIANSEN: Well, she worked with Mack Wilberg, of course. BRYNER: Yes! CHRISTIANSEN: He did the same thing, BRYNER: … And she felt so privileged to be able to work with so many people and accompany them also. CHRISTIANSEN: At my wife's–just as a sideline on that–at my wife's funeral before it, when Mack Wilberg came, and while we were looking over the mementos, he said he recalled the first time that he had ever laid eyes on me. See, I think there may be five years, four or five years, something like that, that separate us. And so after we moved away, I began to hear, …get letters from Aunt Jean that would talk about this Wonder Boy, ….Mack Wilberg. And so by the time Mack was studying with Janis, I was living in Payson (with) my wife and we had our youngest son, and I was supporting myself teaching piano lessons. And every–I don't know if it was weekly or maybe it was every other week (well, not (just) piano, but organ lessons too)-- Janis had lined up several people who wanted to study organ. And I would go to Price for the day on Saturday, take Diane with me and Clay, Jr. They'd hang out at Janis’s while I taught, you know, from one chapel to the other. 5 And Janis had a big picture window in the living room where the piano was. And so apparently one– Mack told me– one of these Saturdays, he'd come for his lesson, and was sitting there in front of that window, waiting for Janis while she said goodbye to us. And (he) watched me walk out with Diane and our little Clay, Jr., and drive off. He said, “That's the first time I ever saw you.” BRYNER: Wow! And this was at a chapel in Price, somewhere? CHRISTIANSEN: No, this was at Janis Siggard’s house [in Price] where they’d come for piano lessons…where Diane was hanging out while I'd been teaching at the chapel. Anyway, so… BRYNER: That's wonderful. Just to back up a little bit. Did you get any music instruction in the Emery County schools, other than the year with Miss Hatch? CHRISTIANSEN: Yeah. Well, let's see…. I'm trying to think if I sang in a choir. Did we have a choir in junior high? But yes, the answer is yeah. It's definitely yes. Eve Jensen, who was my First-Second, my First and Second Grade Teacher. (See, there were …two grades in a classroom, or three teachers for the six grades). Eve was very musical, and taught us music, including they would have a Christmas pageant, and I remember participating in that, and that would have been singing. And then Mr. Soderquist, who was my teacher for third, fourth, fifth and sixth grades, if you can imagine it! (He taught third and fourth, and then he moved to fifth and sixth–that would be when I moved in the fifth grade). But I remember we would dance. There was a lot of dancing. That elementary school had a gym on the second floor and a stage. It was … quite a building. It wasn't all being used at that time, but we certainly did use the gym for dancing and the stage up there for the musical productions. And then, of course, Aunt Jean was an influence, because I would hear her play the piano, and I would sit at the piano and fiddle around–probably drove her crazy– just visiting her place. And then,... when I was eight, the new Emery Chapel was built. I don't know if you've been down there, but there's a historical building that they're restoring now, which was our church building. And come to think of musical influences, of course, not only was there the playing of the piano at that chapel for Sacrament Meeting, but they would hold town, family,... town gettogethers there, things like a new cakewalk, I remember, and hold dances. And there were a couple of ladies in the town that would play for those, and that was an influence. And I picked up some of those tunes that I liked and played by memory, things like, I Love You Truly, and, …you know, stuff like that– folk songs–things that they played. So those were... the earliest musical influences and people who were influential to me. Of course, Anna Larsen [of Ferron] was a…great influence too, and she had her piano recitals that I participated in. And I think it was while I was still studying with her that I entered 6 in the ‘Farm Bureau Talent Find,’ I think they called it, the competition, and was chosen to go to the State Fair. And I remember they picked a half hour/hour full of performers to perform on television on Channel Four. I remember that, and that was my first time on TV. And TV was very fascinating to me. And continued to be through the eventual years professionally when I was involved regularly. BRYNER: Yeah, that's true. Wow, so you started performing on TV when you were, was it age eight or nine…? CHRISTIANSEN: I think I was ten. BRYNER: Age ten, wow! CHRISTIANSEN: If I remember correctly when that took place. BRYNER: Well, that's a real honor. That’s neat! Let's see, a lot of these questions [on the question list] you've… you've covered pretty well. I'm just curious, are you familiar with the name Edgar Williams? He went by E. M. Williams. He taught at Carbon High School… CHRISTIANSEN: Did he? BRYNER: And he was 50 years before you, but he was apparently the first person born in Emery. And then he later learned/he was trained at BYU (BYA at the time). But he came back to Carbon, and he led the [Marching Band] .I've just been reading up on this, but there were only nine band members [when he came to Carbon], and they expanded and got the big marching band, and they were winning awards, and they… even were invited to the Chicago World's Fair. So Price, Carbon High School in the middle of the Depression, took a whole train full of kids to Chicago to perform in this national band competition, and they got a superior rating. But he is also from Emery, and so I was just curious, if you knew any Williamses? CHRISTIANSEN: I don’t know that name. There were Williamses in the town, probably descendants. BRYNER: Yeah, it could be. And his mother emigrated from England, and she had had some musical training. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, had she? BRYNER: And then they had, I think, seven children, and she had them all learn instruments. And so it just feels like Emery is this magical place. 7 CHRISTIANSEN: What a story! I didn’t hear about that one! BRYNER: Anyway, I was just curious if you knew any Williamses in your generation that were there. But okay, let's see, can you tell me a little bit more of your music study at the college and university level and who you trained with there? CHRISTIANSEN: Yes. Okay, so I,... went to summer music camps two or three summers at BYU and participated in those. Of course, I was studying with J.J. Keeler, but I entered my freshman year after graduating from Morgan High School. In fact, along with two or three buddies from Morgan, we started right at the beginning of the summer at BYU, and I entered as an organ major, Organ Performance Major. And so I had the requisite classes Keeler had. I'd had enough theory with Keeler that I started in second year theory with Quentin Nordgren, who was one of the theory professors who had written the text book we used [that was also published] nationally…. I remember those students said to him, “Oh, do you make a lot of money off of that?” “No.” he says, “It's peanuts, but, … I like peanuts!” he said. [chuckle] And John R. Halliday–my mother had cleaned for the Hallidays and knew of Brother and Sister Halliday–he was conductor of the Oratorio Choir at BYU, and I played the organ parts when they did oratorios like the Elijah (Mendelsohn) and Hodie (Vaughan Williams) and that sort of thing. So that was a great influence. And so,... those were some primary influences. I was greatly also inspired and influenced by Reid Nibley whenever he played the piano. Such a musical performer! I was mesmerized. And the composition person, he was the BYU composer in residence, you might say, Merrill Bradford. I loved his compositions. His things were very fresh and exciting to me. I was also influenced by the writing of Robert Cundick, who was beginning to publish and write some things then. And not only that, I had an 18th Century Counterpoint class from Bob, which was one of my favorite classes in my whole time at BYU, writing counterpoint. And he was great, you know. He (would) just stand up at the board and write as a composer. I got to know him then, and that eventually led to my being introduced to Alexander Schreiner, who I then studied with for my Master's in Organ Performance from the University of Utah. I decided that–although I had been offered an assistantship and had accepted and then changed my mind–I decided not to go to BYU for my Master’s. I'd been there nine years in effect, you know, from the time I was 13, and had been so blessed by the wonderful study I'd had with J.J. Keeler. But my wife and I decided it was time for a change, and so we decided to lay out for a year and then look at a school, maybe Southern California, or who knows where, and ended up with Alexander Schreiner at the University of Utah. He…was officially Emeritus, and decided he wasn't going to [teach through the U of U] anymore, but I met him. Bob introduced me to him one day, and he offered to take me through [the U’s masters program.] And… Newell Weight, who was then Chair of the department–a great musician and choral man, great person– 8 agreed to have Alexander Schreiner [even though he was officially retired from the U of U] be the one I worked with for my Masters. And so, …that… took care of the Master’s part of my study. And then it was at that time that I got the job at St. Mark's Cathedral. We moved [from Payson to] The Avenues [in Salt Lake City]. After a year and a half of that, I finished my Master's degree and the work with Schreiner, but [we] continued to be good friends. I played some substitute recitals, the noon recitals of the Tabernacle on several occasions when the [regular Tabernacle Organists] needed to be spelled off…. This was before the Guest Recital Program was instigated, of which they [eventually] formally [adopted]. Actually, it was right after Schreiner retired that Bob and John instigated the Guest Organist Program, which continues still today. But I,... didn't go on and pursue PhD work until later, till when I was hired at the Tabernacle. I was at St. Mark's for 10 years, you know, from ‘72 to ‘82, finishing my Master's probably in about ‘73 or something like that. But one of the understandings for my hiring at the Tabernacle was that I would get a PhD. There was not a DMA offered–still isn't in Utah–but the PhD in composition I pursued at the U of U, which was what Bob's PhD was in. And so I had a wonderful experience there, studying and coaching privately with composition, with Vladimir Ussachevsky and with Bruce Reich, who ended up taking over from Ramiro Cortes, who suddenly died of a heart attack after the first year that I worked with him. So I worked with… three [composers], and completed my… PhD studies. So that's kind of my college work, in a nutshell. I also did postgraduate work with Dr. Robert Noehren, who was Organist Emeritus from the University of Michigan. He'd retired to San Diego, and I had eight extended coaching sessions with him. He was…a world renowned organist and also a builder of organs, which was interesting–interesting fellow–and he became a good friend until he passed away. Of course, everybody I ever studied with has passed away by now1 BRYNER: Janis is still alive. CHRISTIANSEN: Well, that's true, …of course, she is. Yeah, …and hopefully her health is well. I haven't had any contact with them for a while. And she has a sister, Vivian Blanchard, with whom I came in contact with in Tremonton, who's also a marvelous pianist. I taught a summer of these Organ and Conducting Courses right after our Clay, Jr. was born. In fact, he was only a couple of weeks old, and the first part of that was up in the Tremonton area where we got to know Vivian. And she lined up a bunch of students too, and I would go up to Tremonton and then do that same sort of thing that I did down in Price. Anyway, two wonderful sisters and musicians! I think they both live in Cache Valley now. BRYNER: Well, I know that's where Janis lives. Incredible! So this question,... I know you've mentioned that your Uncle Merlin's family still lives in Emery County, but in what ways have 9 you stayed connected to musical mentors or people in Carbon and Emery County. Do you have other family that's still there? CHRISTIANSEN: Well, not really. Of course, none… of my kids are there. Obviously, we moved away before they were born. I've not been able to get back to the Christiansen Reunion, though they hold it every year over Memorial Day weekend. I was tied up for my career at the Tabernacle invariably on those weekends. Once or twice, we’d go down for a day before Sunday [Tabernacle duties],… and then I was [eventually] tied up with my wife for about a decade [as she suffered] ill health. But I'm eager to get back down to Emery and pay a visit. I did have two aunts. My father's two oldest sisters both lived in Ferron. Irma Box was the oldest and Delma Leslie, who was three years older than my dad, to the day. So they celebrated their birthdays on the same day. They both lived and died in Ferron. And I know they have some posterity down there in Emery County. Well, two of my oldest cousins, Aunt Irma’s daughters, settled in Emery County [ Jo Ann Behling and Joyce Allen]. JoAnn Behling is still alive and living in Ferron, I think. So… those are the connections. But I've been kind of the family member who never got back to Emery for many years, I'm afraid. Mack would… go. Of course, his mother used to live down there in Castle Dale for years. And after we were working together at the Tabernacle, why, he’d say “Well, I was down there for Memorial Day and went down to the cemetery in Emery,” where he has some relatives “and… you know, I remembered you at your… dad's grave and your grandparents.” BRYNER: Yes, you both lost your dads young. CHRISTIANSEN: We did. Yeah, that's right, BRYNER: Is your father buried there? CHRISTIANSEN: He is and… my mother, who passed away several years ago. And in fact, my sister–my youngest sister, who died of cancer– is buried down there too. She… never married. And so I have those connections, in addition to grandparents in the [Emery City] Cemetery. BRYNER: Wow. So, I have one final question, and I guess it's kind of… CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, and I should say one thing about an influence, and it has to do with Price. I… remember very clearly traveling with my mother and some others to the then-new Geary Theater to hear the Utah Symphony perform, which was a seminal experience for me. BRYNER: Yeah, I bet. Wow! I know that has such an impact when they do… CHRISTIANSEN: Do they sometimes…do they still go down there? 10 BRYNER: About two years ago, they came and performed in Helper, and it was, …it wasn't the full symphony, but,... CHRISTIANSEN: Oh. BRYNER: But, yeah, it was fantastic. CHRISTIANSEN: Yeah. BRYNER: In what ways have your musical experiences helped you feel connected or united to others, or fostered a strong sense of community? Can you think of a specific experience in which music helped bridge divides or create sublime or rapturous shared experiences? CHRISTIANSEN: Well, for me, you know, playing for Sacrament Meetings and playing for General Conference were mountaintop experiences, community experiences of great spiritual influence when people are bound together. Nothing can bind quite like music. And for that matter, all... performances, whatever I perform,…. there is, sometimes more than others, a sense of community and bonding with the people who are present and the music lifts their soul, hopefully. I mean, that's the purpose for the whole thing! And so,... I think music is one of the greatest agents for building community bridges between people on all levels, for that matter. And I think we musicians are especially blessed to be able to practice in what I call ‘the divine art.’ BRYNER: I agree. I can't imagine all the layers of memories you have with so many sacred, spiritual and musical events… CHRISTIANSEN: They were mountaintop experiences. One of them was going to the National Convention of the… American… ‘ACDA’ what does that stand for? The American Choral Directors Association, I think. And the Choir was invited down to Los Angeles to perform at their closing day of their national convention. And we, Craig Jessop and Mack Wilberg, were the conductors at that time. We performed in Walt Disney Hall, then walked up the street and performed it again at the new Catholic Cathedral, and then back as the very final event of the… of the convention concert in Disney Hall again. And the outpouring there for–those Choral Directors, you know, the top people—the respect they had, why you… you'd have thought that they’d climbed the mountain and the Great Zeus himself had come out when Mack Wilberg came out! You know, he's a rock star for these people, because they're all performing his music, you know. It was just, it was an incredible experience there in Disney Hall. The standing ovation just wouldn't go away because of the respect that those wonderful choral professionals had for the Choir and… and for Craig and… and, you know, especially for Mack, because they knew his work. 11 BRYNER: That's amazing! You've probably gone on tour with the choir quite a bit. CHRISTIANSEN: Yes, … BRYNER: …and had some other experiences. CHRISTIANSEN: Well, one of the highlights was going to Israel. We performed over there in several different places, of course, in Jerusalem and in Tel Aviv and in Haifa and… performed a concert in the Jerusalem Center for the Arab population. And that [concert] was accompanied by us Tabernacle Organists on the organ that’s there and on the piano. And the concert,... my wife was with me too, and she… always commented on how emotional it was in Tel Aviv at the concert. The Choir also performed with the Jerusalem Symphony, the Berlioz Requiem, which we organists weren’t directly involved in. But they performed that a couple of times in the concert hall there in Jerusalem, but that… was a magnificent experience to be able to perform over there in the Holy Land BRYNER: It seems to me, you know–choir members bring their voice with them, but as an organist, you have to be accommodating to whatever instrument is there. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh boy, you do! BRYNER: I can’t imagine the challenges with that. CHRISTIANSEN: When we went to Europe, the European trip–I went twice with the Choir to Europe– just a year or two before I retired, which was after many years of not going out of the country. We had a wonderful three-week tour over there. But twenty-some years before, we had gone to Europe, and only one of the venues was the same, and that was in Brussels. But, on that trip, we did the broadcast from wherever we were, you know, three different places in the course of those three weeks. The three organists [were] myself and John Longhurst and Rick Elliott– and my lot fell to play the broadcast that we recorded as part of the concert at Royal Albert Hall in London. And so John and I went over early to rehearse on that instrument. You know, we could only get in [at] a certain time, and it was a couple of days before the choir arrived. And at a certain time you appear at the door, and then you have your set hours, and then, you know, the hall’s tied up with other things. I had to get the organ all registered and prepared for… the Sunday a couple days later. But that… was an interesting and a great experience, and always is a challenge for the organist when the choir uses organs in other places [and the organists] need to go beforehand [to prepare the organ registrations and that can be a blessing. For example, on my first European tour], John and I got a couple of days in London by ourselves, you know. We got to go to the 12 Globe Theater and things like that. And on this last tour, it meant that Andy and I, (chuckle) instead of traveling with the choir after the concert in Nuremberg back to Munich, which was home base, and then riding from Munich all the way down to Vienna on one Sunday and performing in the evening, and then coming back, why Andy and I went from Nuremberg and traveled in a minivan with some of the technical people down to Vienna. We got there the day before the choir because on Saturday night, late again, in the middle of the night, really, after the [Saturday] concert was over at the Musikverein, it was our turn to go in and set the organ up for our Sunday concert in the Musikverein. But it meant that we–I'd never been to Vienna, Andy had–but we got to spend time there. We got to go to the Sunday morning service at Stephansdom and hear the wonderful bells and such. But you have to [prepare the organ]. You can't just, obviously, sit down at an organ [and play]. BRYNER: Yeah, I can't imagine every organ, especially these big pipe organs, are all completely unique. CHRISTIANSEN: Yeah, they're all different. And in Europe, you know, we performed in several different countries, and we’d find different styles of instruments in different countries. The organ that Rick did the broadcast on at Victoria Hall and in Switzerland, in Geneva, was a whole different style than the instrument in Royal Albert Hall in England. And then when we performed in Spain at El Escorial we needed to get there early. And so instead of riding on the hot bus from Barcelona across to Madrid, why, we three organists went early and got on the plane and got to fly to Madrid. They took us in El Escorial, where we spent the day preparing on the organ, and then our wives told us the tale of crossing the hot, desert of Spain, on the bus. BRYNER: Wow. Speaking of ‘we three organists’, it reminded me of being in the Tabernacle, I believe, for an All-State Choir concert. And I think there were three–or maybe it was a different event–but three organists that were rotating on and off of the organ. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh. BRYNER: And I wondered if you were involved with that or not. CHRISTIANSEN: I don't know. I played years and years ago. I played for several All State events and sang in a couple of them myself. BRYNER: Oh, wow. CHRISTIANSEN: Yeah, I remember [when I was singing in a high school All State Choir} Bob Cundick played, and I got to sit down next to the organ console. That was a thrill! 13 BRYNER: Wow. It's amazing how some of those early experiences can be so exhilarating and formative. CHRISTIANSEN: Yes, they are, absolutely. BRYNER: For me, it seems that when I'm involved with music, it brings back so many memories when I hear music, or when I'm playing and I think of the instruction I've received, or individuals that have taught me. Do you find as you're playing that it just fills your heart and mind with memories? CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, it does, absolutely. Yeah, so many memories of feelings. I recall teachers and bonds–and yeah, it's a wonderful thing. Tell me a little bit about your musical experience. I don't know anything about you. BRYNER: Well,... music's just really a hobby for me, but I grew up in Eastern Canada, and… CHRISTIANSEN: Oh really? Where? BRYNER: In Kingston, Ontario. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh? BRYNER: So, it's three hours from Toronto, two hours from Ottawa. CHRISTIANSEN: Well, that can't be far from… BRYNER: Three hours from Montreal… CHRISTIANSEN: From where my daughter Michelle and her husband, Terry lived. He was from Nova Scotia, and they lived in Halifax for the first year ‘til he graduated. And then they lived for a number of years where he began his law practice in… it’s named after one of the towns in England. It's... it's over the New York border, and it's almost equidistant from Ottawa and Montreal, so it can't be far from where you grew up. BRYNER: Do they still live there? CHRISTIANSEN: No, no. Eventually they moved to Western Canada. They're up in… in Calgary now. BRYNER: Okay, so your daughter… 14 CHRISTIANSEN: Well, except that for their oldest son, who stayed, and… Terry's parents still … live in… [Cornwall, Ontario]. BRYNER: …anyway, so I've always loved music, but I don’t consider myself a musician CHRISTIANSEN: So, how old were you when you moved from Eastern Canada? BRYNER: When I was 17, I came to BYU. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, I see. Okay. BRYNER: I studied History and English. But, starting in seventh grade, my teacher was Pat Asplund, the mother of Christian Asplund, who's at BYU,... in the composition department. And … she was a Royal Conservatory designated teacher. So she… had the credentials to teach through the Royal Conservatory of Music of Canada. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, I see. BRYNER: So, even though I only started at, in seventh grade, I started taking piano exams. And I got up to 10th grade, and I passed the exam, but barely. I spent two years getting ready for that one. And then, when I came to BYU (and I also sang in choirs through high school), I was in the Early Music Ensemble with Dr. Doug Bush. CHRISTIANSEN: Were you? Oh! BRYNER: And we got to sing at the Cathedral of the Madeleine. We performed the St. John Passion, and we sang some hymn Chorales that Bach wrote. So,... we would sing the original Chorale, and then he would play that organ part. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, yes, okay, sure. BRYNER: So I love the organ. I love Early Music. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, wonderful. BRYNER: And anyway, so I then… CHRISTIANSEN: Doug was a contemporary of mine at BYU. He was a year older or a year younger, I forget. 15 BRYNER: Yeah, sadly, he died too young. CHRISTIANSEN: Yes, yes. BRYNER: And then, more recently, in the last eight years, I've been taking lessons from Elise Tuttle who's the [Piano] Faculty member at USU Eastern in Price. [I’ve also sung in the USU Eastern Concert Choir and/or Chamber Choir for the last five years or so]. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, good for you. BRYNER: I've been revisiting piano and learning so much from [Elise Tuttle]. And my husband and I have seven children, and so… they've all learned piano or are still learning, and some of them have learned other instruments, too. CHRISTIANSEN: Wonderful. BRYNER: In fact, I have twin boys on missions right now, and one's coming back next week, and the other in three weeks, and at least …one of them wants to pursue music. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh! Well how exciting! Do you think he will go to BYU? BRYNER: So, before they left, they [both] did one semester of school. Garrett wants to study music. He went to Snow. CHRISTIANSEN: Okay. BRYNER: Pierce went to BYU. CHRISTIANSEN: Wonderful! BRYNER: It's fun. CHRISTIANSEN: You know, I think it's Cornwall, I think is the town. BRYNER: Oh, Cornwall, yeah. It used to be in our mission when we were part of the Montreal Mission, and then we switched to [Toronto, then] Trenton. But I remember my mom going to Primary Training meetings in Cornwall when I was a kid, but I haven't been there for a long time. So anyway, our family loves music. You know, Price has the tradition of performing Handel's Messiah each year. 16 CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, good. BRYNER: And this is the 74th year we're doing that. CHRISTIANSEN: Wow! BRYNER: I've been able to do that the last 21 years in Price. CHRISTIANSEN: Wonderful! Where do you perform that, at the College? BRYNER: At the Geary Theater, well, actually we're mostly in the high school, but for quite a long time we were there. Now the orchestra is so big that we… only fit on the high school stage. CHRISTIANSEN: I see. BRYNER: So that's fun. CHRISTIANSEN: Wonderful! BRYNER: My husband and I lived in Las Vegas for five years, and while we were there, I sang in the Southern Nevada Musical Arts Society with Dr. Doug Peterson? I believe…was his first name. He was at UNLV. But I got to audition for that and sing then, so that was a lot of fun. CHRISTIANSEN: You’ve had some wonderful experiences. BRYNER: Yes, but mostly music is just a hobby and a thrill, but not something I've been able to… spend too much time on. CHRISTIANSEN: Well, raising seven kids, you’ve been kind of busy. Still are. BRYNER: Well, I'm impressed that they all like music. CHRISTIANSEN: Yeah, that's a credit to you. Is your husband musical at all? BRYNER: He took saxophone lessons from Derral Sigurd for 10 or 12 years. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, really! Oh, okay. 17 BRYNER: So he did that, but he hasn't played much. He's been busy too, but I'm hoping one of these years he’ll pick up his saxophone again. CHRISTIANSEN: What does he do for work? BRYNER: He’s the Carbon County Attorney. So between that and… CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, I see. Okay. Tell me about this Castle Valley Music Association. BRYNER: Yes, so we just formed this last year because we were starting to run into… more expenses to put on Handel's Messiah, [having] to do with trying to get a facility and needing insurance for the event and so forth. And anyway, the Carbon School District was gracious enough to give us a fee waiver to use the auditorium, which in previous years had been free of charge,… but they said in order to do that, we needed to become a nonprofit organization. So we did that. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh. BRYNER: And then my background’s in History, and I got an email saying they're looking for people to do oral histories, and there's a small grant involved. And I thought we,... our musicians, never get enough… attention or enough credit, and we have such a musical heritage in Carbon and Emery Counties. So I thought it would be exciting to to learn more about people who have taught in Carbon or Emery County, or come from thereto pursue music and… be able to learn from them. CHRISTIANSEN: Wonderful! BRYNER: So that's how this opportunity came about. CHRISTIANSEN: So you're having quite an experience interviewing all those people, aren’t you. Have you gotten to Mack yet? BRYNER: No, but he,... CHRISTIANSEN: He’s probably hard to pin down. BRYNER: He was the first one to send back his letter that he wanted to participate. CHRISTIANSEN: Yeah. 18 BRYNER: And he said he wanted to do the interview in October or November, but I… didn't have enough time back in October, so by the time I asked in November, you know, I was asked to maybe do it after Christmas with all he has going on. So I look forward to that. CHRISTIANSEN: Uh huh, yes, it’s a pretty busy time of year for him. BRYNER: Yes, but you know, some of the themes have been emerging are just the… gratitude and the joy of music and teaching. And the effect that it has on the students and the effect that the teachers have on the pupils, are just beyond estimation. CHRISTIANSEN: Yes, that’s true. BRYNER: I think there's really no way to quantify or… CHRISTIANSEN: There is a great satisfaction in teaching. BRYNER: Yes. CHRISTIANSEN: That’s why I teach a few students since I retired. Is Derral Siggard still alive? BRYNER: No, sadly, he died about three and a half years ago, sometime in 2021. Did you ever study with him? CHRISTIANSEN: I just was with Janis. BRYNER: Yeah, I’ve heard she's an incredible teacher. CHRISTIANSEN: Oh yeah, for sure, yeah. What a musician! What a lady! BRYNER: Is there anything else you'd like to share before we wrap things up? CHRISTIANSEN: No, no, it's been fun. I think you've covered it. BRYNER: I appreciate you so much. Thanks for making time to do this. CHRISTIANSEN: You're most welcome. BRYNER: It’s been a pleasure to meet with you. CHRISTIANSEN: It's been my pleasure. 19 20