An Oral History with Howard Balsley and Cecil Thompson, September 18, 1980

The oral history transcript features an interview with Howard Balsley and Cecil Thompson, primarily focusing on the early history of Valley City, Utah, and Balsley's personal experiences. Balsley recounts his arrival in 1908 to inspect an irrigation project in which he and his twin sister invested, only to find the earthen dam had washed out due to the company's secretary and treasurer squandering funds. The interview covers details about Valley City's transformation from a farming venture (intended for crops like corn, alfalfa, peaches, plums, and apples) to primarily a cattle-raising area after the dam's failure, and the eventual disappearance of its few buildings, with only a cellar remaining. Thompson joins the conversation, adding insights into freighting routes, the area's use for duck hunting, and a humorous anecdote about a surveyor's error that led the original homesteaders to mistakenly claim land six miles from Valley City. Both men also share stories about early Moab, including Balsley's work for a territorial judge and his 40 years on the school board, as well as the 1917-1919 flu epidemic and the early uranium business.

OH-00,799 UTAH STATE HISTORICAL SOCIETY Oral History Program INTERVIEWEES: Howard Balsley and Cecil Thompson INTERVIEWER: Cynthia Sturgis SUBJECT: DATE OF INTERVIEW: September 18, 1980 TRANSCRIBER:. Jeanne Meyer DATE: September 26, 1980 CS: Your name is Howard Balsley. HB: Yes, my name is Howard Balsley. I was born in Collinsville, Pennsylvania on the 7th day of December 1886, and I carne west when I was 22 years old just to look over the country a little. Was it you that was asking me about Valley City? CS: Yes. HB: Oh. Well, we lived in Indianapolis, Indiana, and we knew the president of a big baking company there real well, and he was also president of an irrigation company in the west. CS: Was his name Frank F there? HB: Hitz. ? Was it any of those names These are all officers · of the original company. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 2 CS: ~eorqe Hitz. HB: He hada big baking cornpany, and then they offered us -- Oh, all right. we knew thern real well, and this was when they had this irrigation project about six miles this side of Crescent Junction and Uintah Valley City Land and Irrigation Cornpany. I'rn pretty sure of the title. So rny sister and I, we saved three or four hundred dollars. In those days, that was quite a lot of money. So we invested it with this irrigation project. So I'd just finished business college, and I hada job with the Departrnent of the State Cornrnittee during the carnpaign of 1908, and so I finished that job, and I just decided I'd always wanted to come west anyhow, and with this investment in this irrigation outfit -- It used to be three or four hundred dollars was quite a bit of money, so we thought we had quite an investment, you know, so I decided I'd come out and look the proposition over, and when we got out here, I just liked the country so well, I didn't go back for quite a few years. And I've lived here ever since and been quite well pleased with the surroundings. CS: You said you carne out with your sister. How old was she when she carne out with you? HB: Well, let's see. CS: Oh, so she was your age. HB: Yes. Well, she was rny twin sister. I was a twin. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 3 CS: What was her name? HB: Hedy. CS: Did she stay in this area,or did she go back east? HB: She s.tayed here for awhile and then went back. Howard and Hedy. All the family eventually carne out, but most of them wound up in Californiae I'm the only one that stayed on. I never regretted a minute having come here, because I've fallen in love with the country. CS: Well, now the original plan, it was to iriigate the land and raise crops and make money that way. HB: That's right. That's right. And it developed, we found out, that the secretary and treasurer of the company had been squandering the money on horse races instead of building a concrete dam, and they just built an earthen dam out here at Valley City, and the first big flood carne along, and there went the dam, and we were out of business. CS: So the dam had already been built when you arrived here. HB: It was an earthen dam, yes. Yes. I don't know what to tell you about it. CS: Did you actually stay out in Valley City for any period of time? 4 HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON HB: No. No. No, I carne on through to . _________ figured on staying here a day or two, and I . just fell in leve with the country, and I just stayed~ I didn't go back for several years CS: I understand that you carne out by train to Thornpson? HB: That's right. CS: And then you took a buggy frorn Thompson to Valley City? HB: Yes. They hada stage line, but when I got here, it was in the winter time. It was on rny birthday on the 7th day of December, 1908, when I arrived in Thornpson. Now there was so rnuch snow on the ground and the river was frozen over, and so the stage didn't come through for two or three days. Just only a man from Moab brought his wife out. See, he'd married her, when he was a missionary for the Mormon Church, back in Cincinnati, Ohio. So he had brought her out to Thompson to the railroad. She was going back to visit her fclks, so I gota ride into Moab with him, after I'd waited out there for a couple of days to catch my stage. CS: Now when you first saw Valley City, the dam was already built, but were there any other buildings there at that time? HB: Yes. There was one big two-story house and several srnaller houses. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 5 CS: Were those private homes? HB: Yes. CS: Or were any of thern public buildings like a hotel ora store? HB: No. CS: They were all private. No. HB: CS: What kind of crops were they trying to raise out at Valley City? HB: Well, mostly corn and alfalfa, and they did have a pretty nice little fruit orchard started with several acres. CS: What kind of trees, do you rernernber? HB: Well, they hada peach and plum and apple. Of course, when the darn went out, why that kind of rut us out of business. Valley City never did irnprove very much after that. Of course, sorne folks lived there more or less ever since. There's one cellar left · there . is all that rernains of the buildings. CS: I imagine that was a pretty long ride frorn Thornpson to Moab. Did the stage usually stop at Valley City or somewhere in HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 6 between? HB: Yes, they'd stop anywhere alonq the way. CS: Did they have sorne kind of a stage ·stop overnight? HB: Not at Thornpson. Let's see, I don 1 t believe there was any other stop between Thornpson and Moab, except Valley City, and of course, I say, after the darn went out, Valley City was faded away pretty rnuch. CS: Was i t a one <lay trip between Thornpson and Moab? HB: Yes. CS: You left - one end the rnorning and got in in the evening? HB: That's right. CS: Urn hum. It was an all day trip though. Did you come out in a large party or just your sisterr and you carne alone? HB: We carne alone. CS: Do you know if anyone else carne out at the sarne time with you, co~ing to Valley City? HB: No. No. Eventually, though, all rny folks carne out, and they HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 7 stayed awhile and most of them drifted on .to California. I'm the only one that stayed on in Moab. CS: Was there any attempt to recruit people in Indiana to come out .to Valley City? Did they have promotional flyers or ads in the newspaper or anything like that? HB: Well, it was publicized somewhat, and there were people that bought stock in it. CS: Did a lot of people buy stock, but then intend to stay back in Indiana? HB: Well, a lot of them did. They just thought it would be romantic to have sorne land in the west orto be interested out here. CS: Now 1 ·have the narne of a man who was apparently a land agent in Thompson for the company in 1911. Have you ever heard of him? HB: What's his name? CS: R. B. Marks. HB: M-a-r-k? CS: M-a-r-k-s. Mart? His name was R. B. Marks. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON HB: Marks. Marks. Thompson. CS: 8 Why I think he was the railroad agent at Marks. You don't remember him having a connection with buying land at Valley City or selling lots? HB: No. No, I don't remember the name Marks. Maybe they was on the fade out when I carne and . the dam had all washed out. CS: So really the main people had · come out earlier then. You carne out in 1908, but I understand the dam was built in 1905? HB: I guess. CS: So, it was in those first three years that people did come Yes, that's true. out and begin to farm; HB: Yes. CS: Did anyone stay on with the project. That's right. That's right. Were there people still there in 1908, farming when you arrived? HB: Yes. CS: Do you remember any of their names? HB: There was a gentleman who had the two dauqhters, anó they hada big two-story house out there. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CS: 9 Did perhaps any of them stay in the area around here later on? HB: - - - - " - - - - - - - - - ~ - - - -- - - - - - - I don't remember anybody, besides myself. CS: Now you said that a flood washed out the dam. Were there - several floods overa period of time or one big flood that really hurt the dam? HB: Well, . this was the biggest flood that they had had, and the dam held fer several years and worked fairly well, but there carne the flood along and it just washed it out in a _hurry and through her out of business~ CS: Was Valley City ever really a community or was it justa collection of houses of the people who .farmed there. HB: That's all. CS: Justa collection of the homes of the farmers. HB: Yes. CS: There weren't ever any stores or hotels. HB: Well, eventually they hada schoolhouse out there. Yes. I was on the schoolboard for 40 years, and we hada schoolhouse HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON there. 10 Several farnilies stayed on, and sorne of thern did sorne farrning, and it turned out that there was sorne very good land out there, but it hasn't been farrned in recent years. CS: Now I talked to the Burdicks, and they said tha.t they had lived out there frorn 1919 on . -- HB: That's right. CS: with relatives, the Braces, and the Olivers. HB: Yes. CS: And they said that that is when the school was established. HB: That's right. CS: Mainly for the children of those farnilies. HB: Yes, 1 was trying to think of the Burdicks. farnilies narne. CS: That was that They lived there for a nurnber of years. Do you rernember any ghost stories about the buildings? I understand the old two-story building was reputed to be haunted by sorne people. HB: Oh, they had sorne kind of a story, but I never did know just where it originated, but sorne folks used to be a little leery 11 HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON about staying out there, but I don't think there's anything to that. CS: Do you remember any of the stories that people used to tell about I don't recall. HB: I don•t· believe Ido. CS: You - had said the secretary and the treasurer · gambled away the money on horses, and that's why an earthen dam was . búilt. That's right. HB: Yes. CS: How did you find this out? Did you know the Secretary and treasurer , or was this the story that went around? HB: Well, he was from Indianapo lis too, and I got acquainte d with the secretary and treasurer through the president of the company, the president of this baking company, whom we knew very well, and he was a very fine citizen, so he got taken too along with the rest of us. CS: Would you see if any of these names are familiar, thinking of the secretary and the treasurer -- Charles C. Brown, does that name ringa bell? HB: I wouldn't believe so. come in door) How ya do? (Sounds as though someone HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 12 CT: Hi. CS: Mr. George Wyson? HB: Mr. CS: Mr. C. F. Thompson from Moab. CTt Right. CS: And I was asking you Mr. Balsley about names of the secretary and tresurer just to see if any of these are familiar. J. H. Tribbe? Dbes that name ringa bell? HB: Tribbe? CS: Tribbe. HB: I never heard that name. CS: These men were the officers when it was originally incorporated, Did you? and ~o they were probably not the officers in the period you were involved with the company. HB: Well, the company was organized, see, back in Indianapolis.· That was where it originated. CT: Well, you remember the name of the man who was in charge here, don't you? HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON HB: . I think you mentioned it awhile ago, didn't you CS: Mr. Hitz, George Hitz? HB: No. CS: Mr. Marks? CT: Well, I'm not that familiar with it, but Howard does know, 13 ? because he's told me before. HB: Well, Marks, wasn't he the railroad agent or something at Thompson? CT: No. HB: Marks. CT: But the man that handled the finances out here, you know, and I rernernber that narne, but I don't remember -- spent the money · illegally -- CS: Charles Brown? CT: gambled, and didn't finish the project the way it was supposed to be. HB: Yes. He was the secretary and treasurer of the company. CT: What was his narne? HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 14 HB: Gosh, I don't know. CS: The names I have are George Hitz, Charles Brown, Louis Renkert. HB: Louis who? CS: Renkert, R-e-n-k-e -r-t. You don't have that, do you? · Frank Foe, James Foley, J. H. Tribbe, F. S. Rhodes, George Wyson, James Brill, J. J. Valdena r, and James Shook. CT: Are these all part of the corporate people? CS: These are people who, yes, who incorpora ted the company, and I'm not sure how many of them were ever actually in Utah. HB: This thing originated in Indianapo lis, and most of those folks I'm sure are from back there. CS: Do you know most of the farmers who were here when you got here? Had they come out from Indiana or were they local people who had b e en recruited by the company? HB: Well, I think most of them were foreigner s, were foreign to this country. CS: Oh. HB: They weren't natives. 15 HOWARD BALSLEY ANO CECIL THOMPSON CS: Do you remember where they were from? Scandinavia? HB: Germany? Northern Europe? Italy? Well, no. There weren't any foreigners especially that I remember. Several of them were from back in Indiana. CS: Oh you mean out of state? HB: Yes. CS: Not native to this area. HB: No. CT: Who was the man who had the manufacturing company, the company back in Indianapolis who organized the thing? HB: George Hitz. CT: Well, yes, that's the one I was trying to find out. HB: He was the president of a big baking company back there. CT: That's what I thought. HB: Because we knew him back there, you see. CT: But he wasn't the management man here, was he? HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON HB: No. CS: He never carne out to Utah? HB: Oh, the old gentlemen? '1 6 No, his daughter, one of his daughters -C/71t:ll"ried He had two daughters, and one of theml\ mailed the railroad agent lJ out at Thompson, and that family stayed on there. There was a big two-story, white frame house out there. CT: Yes, I remember that. HB: They lived there for several years after I carne out. CS: Lived in Valley City? HB: Yes. CS: And this was the daughter of Mr. Hitz and her husband who lived out there? HB: No. It was -- I can't think of the name of the family that lived there. There were two daughters. Well, the railroad agent at Thompson married one of the daughters. have the name of that family that was -- ? CS: The Burdicks lived out there after 1919. HB: Yes. Didn't you HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 17 CS: I don't have any names of families who lived there earlier. _HB: Don't you? CS: No. HB: Well, if any of my folks were living, they'd know about it. They could CT: Do you have any informa tion on - a man by the name of who lived there after Burdick s? CS: Not much, just th~t he was the farmer who lived there later. CT: Now he lives here in Moab, Utah. CS: Yes. CT: And he could probably tell you. CS: Did he go out there right after the Burdick s left? CT: Well, I think probably within a few years anyway, and I know I' m going to talk with him. he did sorne farming there and had sorne livestoc k, and he and his father run sorne cattle forme at ·one time. reason I'm familiar with it. HB: Who is this Cecil? That's the HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 18 CT: Newell Dalton. HB: He lived in Moab. CS: Now did that area mainly become a cattle raising area less the farming area? CT: Well, when I was a kid, I used to go out on freight wagons . back and forth, and there was farming there, and of course, with a kid's imagination, rnaybe ten acres looked like a big farro, you know, but I can remember the reservoir and ·. people living there and things of that sort. I know they grew a lot of melons, and I can remernber that real well, because I liked melons, but other than that I don't know the extent. But after Burdick took over there, why it was just kind of a headquarters . He didn't do too much farming, and of course, the reservoir had washed out. You'd have- sorne high water there in the spring, you know, that you could water something, but other than that, why it was justa headquarters for a __ livestock outfit. CS: After the reservoir washed out, there really wasn't enough water for farming. Just for watering cattle. CT: That's right. That's right. CS: Did they freight much out of Valley City, either farm goods or later on, other things? HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: 19 Well, there was freight wagons going between here and Thompson all the time, you know, and San Juan County, hauling supplies. Of course, they bought sorne of their products, but I don't believe they ever shipped anything out by rail or anything like that. CS: People just bought it right there. Apparently there is a Denver and Rio Grande spur that goes down into that area? Do you know anything? CT: Well, there is now, but there wasn't then. CS: That's fairly recent? CT: That's been in the last twenty years. See, it was built to come down to the pot ash plant here at Moab. And it goes down the Colorado River about 20 miles, and they're still using it. They ship pot ash out of there every day or probably a couple of times a week for the railroad to haul it out, but they're producing pot ash there all the time. CS: Do either of you remember when the buildings began to disappear out there? CT: Well, when I was in the transportation business, of course, we were going by there every day, and I'd say probably in the '40's or something like that. Now I don't know exactly when Burdick left there, but for a long time the houses were there, and nobody Dothered them. And one particular story I remember 20 HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON there was an old name of Dubeque Anderson -- I don't know whether there's a place out here named Dubeque. brother stayed in that old house. He and his They used to camp in there, you know, if the weather looked like it was bad or something like that. There was a woman that was supposed to have been looking for her husband that left her,. and she carne here and worked for the Cattle Company, and she got ínto a room upstairs, . and they were sleeping downstairs, and she heard these roen, you know, and she wanted to get out of there, so she packed up her stuff and was running down the stairs, and one of them woke up and they saw her, this white and stuff in the moonlight, and oh boy, one of them ran to Thompson and the other one run out to what they call Dubuque. (laughter) They didn't even put on their shoes. (laughter) So there was a kind of ghost thing connected with the building, and actually I can't remember when that thing disappeared. HB: I don't either. CT: I don't know whether it was burned down. there? Have you stopped Do you know where it is? CS: I've gene by it, and I'm going out later. CT: Well, there's an old cellar that is still left there. HB: That's what I told her. CT: That's the only thing that I know that's left. That's all that's left of it. There might HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 21 · be sorne evidence of a foundation of the old building, but it was a large house. HB: And old big, two-story house. CT: That's right. CS: That house wasn't ever used as a hotel. It was always a private home? CT: I don't recall. Now there might have been. See, ther~ was a lot of Feople with freight wagons, and they may have sold supplies or meals or· something like that. CS: But it wasn't officially a ? CT: I don't think so. HB: No . • CT: I know I camped there several times when my father used to go back and forth to get supplies, and I'd camp there sometimes. It would take four days to go from Moab to Thompson and back with teams. CS: Oh My~ CT: So, it was quite a trip for a kid. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CS: I have the name of a Mr. Packston who apparently lived there after the Burdicks. CT: 22 Do you remember anythirig about him? Well, he was a sheépman. Yes, I knew him real well, and sorne of his family, they live down at let~s see -- HB: CT: No, it's on Highway 89. HB: Louie F CT: Packston. HB: Packston CT: And I think his son · was state senator for a long time for one of the counties down there. You could check it out if you wanted to get more, but he was in the sheep business for years. CS: Did he live in any of those buildings or just run sheep on that ranch? CT: Well, he just ran sheep there, and I imagine he probably used sorne of the store supplies and might even have lived there part of the time. HB: Well, he probably camp e d there. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CS: Um hum. 23 Mr. Balsley, I was told that the old school building out there was brought into Moab after they stopped using it. Do you remember anything about that from when you were on the schoolboard? HB: No, I really don't. CS: They said that it was a one room, small, peat -- HB: Yes, it was a one room schoolhouse. I don't remember what ever did become of it. CS: I was also told that sorne of the · other buildings, the two smaller houses out there were also moved. One was moved apparently into Moab, and another was moved up, I believe, to T·homps on. CT: I don't remember that. Do you know anything about Oliver or one of his son-in-laws that lived there? CS: Not much. HB: I don't know, but I don't believe any of those moved into Moab. No. I don't know how they would have gotten across the bridge. CT: I don't think so either. HB: The old bridge, you know. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: They'd have totear them down anyway. • They wouldn't be able to move them. And the bridge at that time was justa one way bridge, you know. CS: 24 It was narrow and not too high either. Did it have a roof over it? Covered? CT: • Oh yes. · CS: Was it about as wide as -- CT: Well, there was one way traffic, so it wasn't over say probably 12 feet. Something like that. CS: That would make it hard. CT: And it was just .wide enough for a wagon anda team. CS: I understood that when the Burdicks were out there, they built a barn out of railroad ties anda corral CT: Right. HB: Oh, I think that's right. CS: Do you remember any traces of that? CT: Well, people -- it would be just like they do on the railroad. They'd steal those ties and take them and use them, you know. So after things are abandoned, why they just finally disappear. HOWARD BALSLEY. AND CECIL THOMPSON CS: 25 I understood that that's a good area for duck fishing out there / or duck hunting out there. CT: Well, it is at times, but see the old reservoir finally filled up with silt too, besides being washed out, so the water is real shallow, and at times, why there _' s qui te a few ducks out there, but most of the time, there isn't any water in it, and what little is there just filters into the qround, and that's the end of it. CS: So did many people.go out there to hunt? CT: Oh yes. I've hunted out there a lot of times. Yes. But gradually there was floods just keep coming, and that silt jus t fi n ally fills it up, and it just runs over until it's gone. HB: The reservoir didn't reservoir much anymore. ALL: ( laughter) CS: Anything else that you can remember about what the buildings looked like when they stood or what their relationship to each other was? The big two-story building, was that painted, do you remernber when you first saw it? HB: Yes, it was a white house, and I always figured it was a pretty well built house. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: Well, I think so. 26 Back in those days anyway, of course, most of the houses were well built, but there was no insulation and things like that, you know. And I remember it hada staircase in it going up into the second story. Then the corrals were on the north side of the main building, and that cellar, well, they were fairly close to the corrals. And ·y ou might see sorne rernains of that old railroad tie corral there too, because ther~ may be sorne evidence of that. CS: The other buildings that were out there when you first saw it, Mr. Balsley, they were all frame buildings as well? HB: Yes, I believe so. CS: And the rest of thern must have been one story. I'rn sure they were. There was only the ene two-story building? HB: Yes. CS: Were ihere five of thern? That's right. Ten of them? I'm wondering how big this community actually was in the beginning. HB: Well, I didn't think there ever were but more than four or five houses there, were they? CT: Well, I can't remember that rnany. HB: I think there might have been three besides the big one. I think about three. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 27 Seerned to me, it wasn't a very populo us place though . What was this ghost story they used to tell about the buildin g · out there? Do you know anythin g about that? CT: Well, I just told her about Dubuqu e Anders on. HB: Oh, did you? CT: Do you rernernb er hirn? HB: Yes. CT: And bis brothe r, they were staying there one night, and of course , there was other storie s, you know, the sarne thing. That sornebo dy saw ghost, you know. CS: And L~ose storie s about the buildin g being haunte d, have they been going around for quite awhile ? CT: Well, they had in those days. Of course , people now don't know anythin g about them CS: I unders tood that the buildin gs had been empty awhile befare the Burdic ks moved in, and I wonder ed if that's when the ghost storie s started . CT: Yes. That would have been prior to 1919. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON HB: Many different people stopped there. CT: Yes. HB: They just used to well, I don't know, just on the public properties. CT: When did the people move away from there, you know, in 1908? When you carne here, they were active. (END OF SIDE ONE OF TAPE) 28 HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON HB: (SIDE TWO) 29 1908, and I believe he was from Indiana, and he had two daughters. One of them married a railroad agent out of Thompson, and can't remember their name now. I You don't have that in there? CS: No, I don't have that. CT: Well, I -' d say maybe three or four or fi ve yéars anyway. CS: Around then 1912, 1916? CT: I don't know when they just finally abandoned it out there. HB: But anybody just ~- It was just kind of a public stopping placie. CT: Well, when they were running wagons and horses, you know. HB: Yes. CT: A lot of people would stop there, and of course, if _it was So it was probably empty around -- Yes. stormy or anything, they'd go in the buildings and use them. Then the cars started to operate about 1914 or -'15, and then the wagon trade just finally quit, you know. And the company that I was connected with started in 1918, and then the mail contracts started to come into exístence then and out this way into Moab and Monticello, and it was one of the Burton/Wilso n/Allred had the first mail contract that was operated by the horses and stages. HB: Yes. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL .THOMPSON 30 HB: But there was a nice orchard there ·when I carne. CT: Yes, I can remernber the orchard and the melonpatch. HB: Yes. CS: Uro hum.· .Most ._ of .the people who raised fruit around· here at that period, _did they raise it to . sell or did they raise it for their own use? CT: Well, most of the f2.milies raised i.t for their own use, but there was a few commercial operators here, and they hauled it out with wagons and shipped it. CS: Did they ship it fresh or did they dry it? HB: No, they shipped it _fresh. CT: Fresh. Then they finally started a canning factory here: and 1 · worked in there when I was about 12 years old. CS: Do you remember about when that was? CT: That would be about 1912. HB: You was how old? CT: About 12 ·years old. I was the sodder, you know. - - - --· They used to HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 31 They had the cans up in a kind of a sealing place, and they hada kind of a tube that you run these cans down, and then I hada machine there that you just kept pushing the cans under, you know, and filling them up, but they hauled all these cans in with wagons, you know, and the wagons always had hay, you know, to feed the horse~ and sometimes they hauled coal, and these cans were about half full ·___-'--- coal dust, and so they didn't stay in business too long. (laughter) They didn't wash them, but I know I used to sodder the tops on those cans. CS: Those would have been tin cans, wouldn't they? CT: Tin cans, right. CS: (laughter) But there was just no sanitation. Well, now when the freighting was going on, and you said it took about four days between Moab and Thompson. CT: Yes. CS: Did they camp out overnight when they stayed overnight? CT: Well, the courthouse station out here was about 17 miles, and that was the first night's stop. Then if they were hauling, and they did haul wool out of here, that was one of the things that they hauled out, and if they had heavy loads and the weather was bad, maybe they'd stop a second night at Valley City and then go into Thornpson and it would take thern a little longer, but in ideal conditions, why it took HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 32 four days to go out and back, but if it was muddy, why sometimes it would take a week. CS: Anything else that you can remerober about the buildings or about people who lived out there? CT: Well, these Olivers lived now Oliver was the. son-in-law of Burdicks. CS: That's Paul Oliver, that they call Charley? CT: I believe so. I don't think the father's name. one of the· boy's, r ·believe. That was And there was two boys, and they used to live over at Green River, and they were in the f arrrr.w"'l g business. They raised a lot of melons and things like tha t , and they were real nice people. HB: What was their name? CT: Oliver. HB: Oliver. CT: One of them lived with Howard when he went to school here Yes. Yes. years ago. HB: Yes. CT: On e of the boy s lived h e re and we n t to school. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON HB: 33 We used to, when these outsiders would come in and go to school, you know, and they'd stay with families, and we had, oh I don't know, four or fjve during the years. But this Oliver hoy, he was the hest one we ever had. He'd get up in the morning and rnilk the cows and everything. He was the hest kid we ever had. CT: Well, they were always polite and nice, you know. HB: Yes. CT: It was just kind of unusual to see it. CS: They carne in to go to high school? CT: Yes. HB: Yes. CT: Now, I think they maybe moved to Provo, hut they were in Green River for a long time, hut I helieve they're up around Provo now. HB: Well, the hoy that used to live with us lives in Provo, and his folks lived at, on this town west side of there. died here awhile hack. CT: Pleasant Grove? Orem? His mother HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 34 HB: Hum? CT: Pleasant Grave? HB: I believe it was Orem, because it was clase to the park in Pravo, anyhow. Orem? Yes, he was the finest kid we ever had here. CS: Did you know the Braces who lived out there? CT: Yes. Yes. They were family too, you know. I forget what they -- I think probably another daughter married a Brace. HB: What was their name? CT .: Brace. HB: Brace? CT: Um hum. CS: Burdicks? CT: Burdicks. HB: Well, they were all famJly. CT: They were all family. CS: Was that the largest group that ever lived out in Valley City? Brace and Olivers and Um hum. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 35 That Burdick family? CT: That I recall, anyway. I don't remember too much about the people who built the reservoir , only that I knew they were there, you know, and I just didn't have any general kriowledge about thern. I'd just see them and that's all. HB: Yes. CT: And then when Burdick moved there, he hada good cattle operation , and -it was the familj's deal. And Hugh Burdick, . he finally moved from there, but I think he was the last one tha~ operated it. HB: Then he moved over to Colorado. The o t her side of Grand Junction. I don't know where. I've forgo tt en just where it was. CT: Well, there is a daughter -- Well, there's Burdicks that lives in Salt Lake. Do you know her? CS: Mrs. Kirby. CT: Kirby? CS: I'm going to talk to her. CT: Yes. CS: I'm going to talk to her. You say you have talked to her? HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: 36 Well, I don't know whether she's old enough -- Well, I guess she's old enough to remernber sorne of the things, but she should have pretty good information. CS: Now this whole Valley City project, this idea of building a dam for irrigation. Is that something unusual or were there a lot of little irrigation companies, speculative companies during that period? CT: Well, I think it's happened a lot of times, but usually they're failures for the reason that they don't provide for the silt. They'll get an idea that you gota big stream of water that comes down in a fl .ood, you can contrbl it; and then for a few years, it's fine, and then all at once, you don't have a reser voir, so it takes sorne real planning. You've got to di vert t hat water and drop the silt and stuff out and stuff out of it before you put in a reservoir. cattle, and I had that same problem. And I used to run I run into that making reservoirs fer cattle, you know, and so I thought L got smart enough, and I'd run this water out and dump the shell into brush and stuff like that, and then catch the fresh waterr and put it into the reservoir, and that worked pretty good. CS: Now when they originally set up the company, Mr. Balsley, did you only hear about this idea of irrigation, because in the charter, they put everything. petroleum. They put mineral exploration, Did you hear about anything like that? Or was it mainly supposed to be a fa r ming venture? Pot ash? HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 37 HB: That's what it was was just fa.rming , yes. CS: Just for farming. HB: Yes. CT: I think most of these corpora tions do the same thing. Yes. we had one. I know We had about everyth ing in it. es: (laughte r) CT: We were truckers and bus drivers . CS: CT: It was just put in there for expansio n if you wanted to. CS: Anything else about the building s or people or events connecte d with Valley City that you can think of? HB: No. CS: If not, we've gota little tape left, and if you'd like to talk about sorne other early history of Moab -- CT: Well, Howards been you knew that or not. CS: Yes. Um hum. I understa nd he was. I don't know whether HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: 38 And he could probably tell you sorne stuff about Madam Curie and a few things and sorne of the early development here. He's been in the uranium business since about 1915. CS: Yes, I think we did an interview. They decided to do an interview with him on that, but if there's anything else you'd like to add, we can talk about that. CT: I don't know whether he's told you the story about working on a ranch when he first carne here? CS: - No. CT: Well, he worked far an old .man named Judge Bartlett. He was a territorial judge here befare Utah became a state, and he hada ranch down here, and Howard worked there, and Howard gota dallar a day and had to board himself, and every once in awhile, the old man would invite him into dinner, you know. They hada lag cabin, and they hada stovepipe that went straight up through the ceiling, you know, and it was one of those roofs with willows, you know, and then like a foot of dirt on it, so they hada pretty good hale around the stovepipe, and when the old man would start to cook, why they hada lot of cats around there, and they'd get up there around that chimney, and all smell this food, and of course, they'd knock this dirt and stuff down. es: (laughter) HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: 39 And this old man would scramble eggs, you know, and this dirt would all come down, and when old Bart wasn't looking, why Howard would throw the . eggs out in the yard for the cats. CS: {laughter) CT: And this old man, he used to catch them, and he'd say hum God, hoy, I'd sure like to have sorne more. CS: {laughter) {laughter) .Well, now when you worked for him, you worked as a cowboy for this judge? HB: No. CT: Farrner. CS: You worked as a farmer. HB: No, I was never much of a cowboy, but he'd come uptown and get drunk pretty near· every night, and you'd go down there in the morning, and he'd just take the bridle off of the horse~ he'd never take the saddle off, and he'd say Um God. the way he'd swear. That's Um, God, hoy, go down and get old Pressie, and I'd go down in the field. He'd be eating down there and bring him up, and we'd take that saddle off, and he hada sore back, two sores on his back, and so he'd say, Um, God, hoy, take off the saddle, grease him up and put sorne axel grease on those sores, and put the saddle back on again. {laughter) And he'd be there down on the field the next morning. (la.ughter) HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 40 Th e ol d ma n wo ul d co me in at ni gh t an d ju st ta ke hi s br id le of f. CS : Now •d id yo u gr ow up on a bo y? HB: a fa rm ? .W ere yo u a fa.rm er wh en yo u we re Oh , I'd liv ed on a fa rm , ye s. We us ed to ha ve a fa rm ba ck in In di an a. Ye s. Bu t he pu t me to wo rk bu ild in g a di tc h ou t of th is m ilc re ek ov er he re on to th e fa rm do wn th ér e, a ne w ap pr oa ch , me an in g we we re go in g to br in g it in at a di ff er en t an gl e __ __ __ __ An d so he to ld me , he sa id ,. no w wh en th e su n go es do wn , th at w ill be th e tim e to qu it an d br in g me th e tea m ba ck . I ha d to co me ba ck ar ou nd th ro ug h tow n he re an d go do wn be yo nd th at ra nc h M r. Th om ps on ev en tu al ly ow ne d, do wn wh er e th e ho sp ita l is . Yo u kn ow wh er e th e ho sp ita l is ? CS : HB: W el l, th at 's pa rt of th e ou tf it . wh en I fi rs t carne to th e co un tr y. Th at 's wh er e I us ed to wo rk CS : You ha d to br in g th e tea m ba ck th ro ug h tow n? HB: Ye s. So an yh ow , th e su n we nt do wn . Se e, th er e wa s sor ne bi g cl if fs ov er he re , yo u kn ow , an d th e su n we nt do wn an d so I un ho ok ed th e tea m, an d I wa s wo rk in g on th e sc ra pp er bu ild in g th is di tc h, an d ho ok ed the m up to th is bi g wa go n, an d I ha d to co me ba ck ar ou nd th ro ug h tow n to ge t do wn to th e ra nc h, so I me t hi m co mi ng do wn as I wa s co mi ng ou t, an d he sa id , . HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 41 um, God boy, what's the rnatter? And I said, well you told me to quit when the sun went down. And he said, um God boy, I meant the second time the sun went down. CS: (laughter) HB: So went back, hitched up the team and worked about another hour. CT: Now these cliffs here, see _ _ _ _ , then where _the Colorado River goes in there, then it comes into that opening again, and then it starts shining on that ranch again. es: (laughter) CT: So, they have peculiar things. HB: Yes, he fcrgot to tell me he meant the second time. CS: Now how long did you work far him? HB: No. CT: When he was back in Indianapolis, why he'd had sorne experience It still does it. (laughter) A couple of years? with shorthand and things like that, so he's been able to record a meeting and things like that, so he took an examination when he started working for the Forest Service as a clerk. He was there about nine years, and then he's been county clerk here and county treasurer and on the school board. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 42 HB: I was on the school' board ~xactJy 40 _years. CT: He made a lot of enemies anda lot of friends. CS: (laughter) HB: Hum? CT: I .say you made a lot of enemies anda lot of . friends. · HB: Oh yes. CS: What was it like during the early years of the Forest Service? HB: Well, to start with, I hated it. Yes. That's true. any restraint befare. See, they hadn't known They'd just go where they wanted to when they wanted to, and of course, we just had certain months in the year, and I think it was about nine months in the year when they used the forest the rest of the time, they're supposed to put their cattle on winter range, and I don't know what I started to tell you. CS: About the problems with the cattlernen and the forest service? HB: Yes. Well, they'd always come and gane whenever they wanted to, you know, and they didn't like this idea of regulatio ns. You had certain months when you could go in, and HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: 43 Well, I think in those days, that was right and sometimes April, but they did rather what they wanted to. There wasn't enough forest people to control them, and sayas an example, if you hada permit for 50 head, why you'd run two or three hundred head. CS: (laughter) CT: And if you hada permit for a hundred, why you'd run 500, you know. Now they tag the cattle and put them on so that you've actually got the numbers on them, and in those days; they ·were running anywhere from three to five times as many cattle as they were supposed to. HB: We used to have the main trouble with the sheepmen from Colorado. They'd come out here and feed on this desert with their herds, you know, and they'd just go wherever they wanted to. Of course, they'd always had free use of the mountain ~ange too, and when we put restrictions on that, why we were really unpopular in those days. CT: Well, these federal people are still unpopular. HB: Well, yes. (laughter) That's true. CS: (laughter) So basically the Forest Service was in charge of managing all the public lands around this area? HB: Well, the mountain land, yes. Eventually, why they got HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 44 what do they call this outfit? CT: Bureau of Land Management. HB: Yes. CT: There w·a s one other thing I was going to tell you about that All the land now is handled by the government. Valley City. While I was on the land board, the locators, the first homesteaders out there, I suppose, were the people from Indianapolis . Are you familiar with the way that these states are laid out in townships and sections and all that stuff? CS: Yes. CT: Well, they had it surveyed, but the surveyor gave them the wrong description. They've gota township south of where the Valley City is. They've got the same sections all right, and that went on for years and years, and then they finally discovered they didn't own the land that Valley City was on. They owned land six miles farther south. es: (laugh ter) CT: And so they finally got the deal made with the government to take it over, and then after that, why I think it was when -well, after Burdicks left there anyway, why sornebody traded that land with the federal governrnent. CS: I think that may have been Mr. Packston. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 45 CT: Yes, it's back to federal land again. CS: s6, it is now federal land. CT: Well, I'm not really sure. It might been, see the state made sorne rather large selections in that area, and it may be state land CS: But it is public land of sorne kind. CT; Public land _again, yes. But it was kind of unusual to get that location six miles away from where it was supposed to be. CS: (laughter) CT: Oh, I t.t~ink it was probably fifteen years or something like that. How late· did they discover that? Sorne surveyor carne around, you know, and he said, you just don't have this land. HB: CS: bit of tragedy. Anything else that you would like to add about Valley City or about early Moab? CT: Well, I could add a lot about Moab, but I've already told them about all I know about Moab. CS: I was wondering about the flu eDidemic. Do you remernber much about the f]u epidemic around 1917, 1918, 1919? HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: Yes. I was in the army then. was a lot of people died. and the schools here. I can remember that. And there I remember they used the churches They put in cots and things - for people. Of course, we had one doctor. you know. 46 Sorne people just lived or died, It was one of those things. But I know whén I was in the army, I was up at Fort Douglas during the flu time, and we were barracksed in the adrninistration building there at the University of Utah- in the basement, and if you were sick, you had to walk up to Fort Douglas to find out whether you were sick or not. CS: CT: That's a long · walk up hill. __...:_--- - ·- ____ _ there that died. -·---------- ( laughter) · and I had two or three friends They'd go up there and get pneumonia, and the first thing you know, they were gane. HB: Well, several of them died here too. CT: But they didn't have idea what they were doing. CS: They didn't have any way to treat it. CT: Well, it wasn't that, but the fact, instead of having somebody come and move you in a ·vehicle or something like that to kee~ you war-m. why they' d just put you out there in the rnud and snow and let you wallow up there in the fort~ you know. Fellow just dying like flies, and the same thing occurred here. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 47 And the Indians, are you familiar with these little sweat boxes that they built for themselv es? · CS: I think so, but maybe you should describe one. CT: Well, they make them small, . somethin g like a hagan. Then they put hot rocks in there, and then they throw a little water on these hot rocks and make steam, and they make -- I fcrget what they call it, but whateve r their medicine man told them to, and take those sweatba ths and then jump in the San Juan River, ·and that was their last swirn. (laughte r) I know there were hundred s of other people died. CS: Well, anything else that you'd like to add~ either one of you? Wel l , thank you very much. This has been very, very helpful . I real l y appreci ate it. HB: Somethi ng's in the back of my mind. I can't think of what it is. CT: Well, they probably got all the informa tion you had about the uranium things. HB: Yes. CT: But he was shipped over back to sorne of the first manufac turers, and he even made pads here -- I don't know whether you've ever heard about that, you know, people that had arthrit is or rheumati sm h a da little pad of ura nium, and you'd strap that HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON 48 on there, and it was supposed to cure y e, ;1. HB: CT: Anda lot of people claimed it did, you know. HB: It worked for a lot of them. A lot of them -- I don't know whether it was in their mind or not, but I sure sold ·· a lot of those. CT: And another thing, before we had electricity here, you know, we had these coolers, you know, they used to call them. You hada frarne, and then you put burlap over them, artd then a five gallon can of water would drip on there, and it would kind of keep your milk and things cool. HB: ~he evaporation would keep them cool. CT: But we hadan old man here that hada said things were pretty equally divided in this old world between the rich and the poor and all those things. He said the rich gotta have ice in the summer, and the poor could have it in the winter. es: (laughter) CT: (laughter) CS: That's true. He hada lot of stories like that. HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON CT: 49 And after I gota l~ttle older, he was a great guy to talk to kids, you know, and there should be sorne more meaning to that. Well, he said there is. He said wood and coal was available . All it took was ambition. You . could go get it. If you wanted to be warm in the winter, why you went and got coal or you went and got wood, and he said if .you wanted to build a storehous e for ice, why all you had to do was build it. It was just your own labor. Put up the ice in the winter, and have it in the summer. So he had it figurea out pretty well. It's all how much ambition you .have. And it's still that way. But the thing that I rernember rnost about Moab is that everybody had a garden and everybody hada rnilk cow and they had pigs and they had chickens, and they had fruit and vegetable s. You didn't need any money. You was just self sufficien t. HB: CT: And it just depended on how arnbitious you were as to how much you had of it, so it was a pretty good systern, and it's a lot better than it is today. You've got to go to the supermark et or else you're out of business. HB: Well, I carne here to stay all night, and by dog, I've been here ever since over 70 years ago. CS: I've heard that you hada round trip ticket, and that you still have the other half of it, is that true? HB: HOWARD BALSLEY AND CECIL THOMPSON es: 50 (laugh ter HB: round trip ticke t CS: Yes. CT: The only proble m with that is that the railro ads that he had the ticke t on· are about gone out of busin ess. es: (laugh ter) HB: four differ ent railro ads. Three of them are out of :busin ess. CT: (laugh ter) CS: I g uess you can't go back then. CT: He'll have to HB: I'll have to thumb a ride on the - ~ - -- CS: Well, thank you so much. helpf ul. HB: - Right . · ( laugh ter) This has really been very, very Very inform ative. After so many years , you forge t a lot of ---- -·- -· detai ls, you know. - - - - - - , . - -.. (END OF INTE RVI EW ) - -- - ---~ - -