Atalie Van Dam Oral History Interview

Atalie Cook Van Dam discusses her experiences growing up in Price, Utah, and her observations since moving back after many years. She highlights the positive community support and opportunities provided by USU Eastern's growth, but expresses sadness over the decline of downtown Price and the impact of the coal mining industry's slowdown. Van Dam also shares the challenges of rural life, such as limited job opportunities and the pervasive "talk of the town," contrasting it with a surprising feeling of less safety in Price compared to urban areas. Despite these concerns, she values the strong community connections and hopes for sustainable economic development and a renewed sense of civic pride in Price's future.

Crossroads: Change In Rural America Change in Rural Utah TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Atalie Cook Van Dam Others present: Place of interview: Date of interview: Utah State University Eastern Library & Learning Commons January 27, 2024 Interviewer(s): Mia Shumway Recordist: Photographer: Recording equipment: Transcription equipment: NCH Express Scribe Transcription Software with Power Player foot pedal. Transcribed by/date: Susan Gross/01 March 2024 Transcript proofed by/date: Brief description of interview: Ms. Atalie Cook Van Dam talks about what it was like growing up in Price, Utah, versus what the town is like today. She grew up in Price, left for many years of her adulthood, and has recently moved back to take care of her mother. She talks about things she values about growing up in a rural place, and having her high school aged children here now. She discusses her hope that Price will continue to be a healthy community in the future. References: MS: AV: Mia Shumway Atalie Cook Van Dam NOTE: Interjections during pauses, transitions in dialogue (such as “umm”), and false starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript noted with brackets. TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] MS: So, very first – what is your name? AV: It’s Atalie Cook. MS: How do you spell that? AV: A-T-A-L-I-E Cook Van Dam. MS: Can you spell Van Dam? AV: V-A-N, space, capital D-A-M. MS: D-A-M? AV: M, um-hmm. MS: And no apostrophe – no dash [laughing], yeah. CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 1 AV: No hyphen, nope. MS: I put two in there, so – AV: Yeah; and I usually don’t even use Cook, so – MS: That’s your maiden name, right? AV: Yeah, that’s my maiden name. MS: And Atalie, where are you from? AV: I’m from Price. MS: Are you from Price, or from Wellington? AV: I’m from Price. MS: [Chuckling] Okay. AV: I grew up on Fourth East, and I was born right over there at the business center [laughs]. MS: Nice [laughs]. And have you lived other places besides Price? AV: Yes, I have lived a lot of places. MS: Um-hmm? AV: After college, I moved up north – lived in Orem; and then from there I went to California. And then from California – where did I go? To New York; from New York, went back to California, and then to Reno, Nevada. And then to Arizona, and then I lived back east in northern Virginia; I still do that – my husband is back there right now. So, I just – I moved Mom home, to be closer to more family. MS: Yeah. And so, you just moved her back here to Price? AV: Um-hmm, two years ago. During Covid and stuff I just thought, “You know what, things are weird. I think this will be just as weird as what weird is.” [Laughs] So, that’s what we did. MS: Yeah, so you live with your mother, here, in Price? AV: Um-hmm, yep. MS: Yeah. And have for two years? AV: Yep. MS: Great. I guess I’ll start with that. What’s the biggest change you’ve seen in this community since being gone for so long? Or not living here in so long? [01:58] AV: The college, for one. It’s been kind of cool to see the growth, you know, linking arms with USU; and I think the opportunities that it’s allowed this small community. CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 2 It’s sad to see the commercial side – downtown especially, be just a nothing-ville. Exciting to see what’s happening up in Helper, you know – I think a big push has been done up there; hopefully it’s sustainable. Yeah [laughs]. I think that’s the – you know, with all the growth over in Spanish Fork – because that was a dying community when I was here, where Price has always been a huge commerce place, it’s just really gone down. And I just hope something comes in to sustain this place. Anyway, that’s hard to watch, you know? Especially now that the coal mines are just not as productive and going as they were. MS: Yeah, yeah. What were some of the best things about growing up here? AV: I felt like I knew a lot of people, you know – I had a lot of people in my corner, a lot of people that had my back, kind of interested in me developing as a human being, you know? It was more than just my family’s job – I really felt like it was a community effort. MS: Yeah. Has that feeling changed, now that you’re back? AV: I don’t recognize people as much, you know, because there’s been a lot of years that I’ve been gone. And so, but it’s fun to reconnect with a lot of these people that have maintained friendships over the years. But yeah, I think that was kind of the biggest thing since I’ve been back is the amount of funerals I’ve been to. And I thought of all of the funerals I’ve been to since living in all those different places, and I just wasn’t as connected, because there just wasn’t as many funerals. I’ve been to more funerals in the last two years than I did before then. So, it’s kind of interesting. [04:20] MS: Yeah; and also, just the community here – it’s an older community – AV: Uh-huh. MS: The population seems to be similar to what, you know – you grow up, you graduate, you go out and work, and live all over. And young people don’t always come back. AV: Yep, they don’t. Yep. MS: Did you see a lot of opportunities here? AV: Back then? MS: Back then, yeah? AV: No, not really. I think I always had it in my sights to get out of here. And it was talked about, you know, joked a lot about, “Oh, I can’t wait to leave Price.” But I never really felt that way as much as I knew that I wanted to do more, you know, than what was offered here. I don’t know that I did. I think [laughs], you know? But there just wasn’t jobs to be had. So, opportunities were definitely open elsewhere; for my spouse, particularly. I was a stay-at-home mom for many years. MS: Um-hmm. What kind of industry does he work in? CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 3 AV: Well, my first husband – he did everything, but he ended up joining the military; and so, that took us a lot of places. But my second husband is a mechanical engineer, so. MS: Keeps him busy, I’m sure. AV: Yeah, yeah. MS: [Chuckles] Yeah, so not something that’s super prominent in Price. AV: No. My second husband, when I met him he was working for Orbital, down in Chandler, Arizona. And so, his little stamp in on, you know, the nose of – I forget the name of the – we tease him all the time about his rockets that he’s built. Gosh, I can’t even remember the name of it. But it’s in the Smithsonian, you know – his name is on a plaque, because he helped build that – I’ll remember it, but I can’t remember it right now. It’s one of the – [Laughter] Goodness gracious. MS: [Inaudible] [06:28] AV: Like we talk about it all the time and it’s just – it’s funny. MS: [Laughs] AV: I can’t remember the name of it. MS: Well yeah, not something super conducive to moving back to Price. AV: Exactly: something you wouldn’t find here. Exactly. When he was laid off there, he went up to, you know – oh, gosh (I’m forgetting all these names) – but he worked on the space shuttle replacement program. And those just aren’t opportunities here, you know? And now he works back with DLA in Virginia, for the government. MS: Yeah? [Laughter] AV: Another thing you won’t find here. [Laughter] MS: Yeah. And as far as something – as far as raising your kids, was it ever something you wished you could bring them here, to raise them here? AV: So, yeah – you know, it’s funny, but my daughter’s the one that actually wanted to come back here. She’s like, “Let’s just do it,” you know, because she wasn’t loving her experience out in – she would have been a junior in high school when we moved here. And she did; she finished up her junior and senior year here. And then my son’s currently enrolled at the high school. So, but CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 4 my baby son is still back east with Dad. So, he might be coming out – I think he’s been here a couple of times, but he’s just like, “Oh, I don’t know if it’s for me, Mom.” But we’ll see. [Chuckles] MS: Yeah, do you see different opportunities for your kids than maybe you had, around the same age? Or more? Or less? AV: You know, I don’t really know; I think it’s been a lot the same, you know? I think once again, you have that community involvement. Not growing up here and my daughter playing basketball, you know, she had to kind of prove herself a little more than somebody coming in, I felt. But you know, she did fine. The coaches were great and accepting. So, I think she did fine. [08:31] MS: Yeah. How is the care of your mother going? Is it easy to get her the care she needs here in Price? Or is it something – AV: Yeah; that I do think is by far better. Yeah, the time they take with her in the doctor’s office, and sit and talk with her – and you know, she likes to talk [laughs]. But the one girl called her right out, it was totally awesome how she just – Mom made mention of how her eyes were hurting her, and she’s like, “Well, do we need to get you another appointment? Like what do we need to do?” And she just immediately was helping make the solution. And just, like I said, the amount of time that she was willing to spend and get to the bottom of Mom’s issues with, it was awesome. MS: Yeah. And that’s something – yeah, maybe unique to a rural place. AV: Yeah, truly; yeah. Especially being back east, you know, you’re just – I like my doctor back there, and I feel like he’s very good with me. And so, I don’t know. I’ve kind of thought about those two things, but I think with Mom she definitely got some – I mean, the girl came in, sat down and really spent time with her. MS: Yeah, which is more of that community. AV: Yeah, yeah; for real. MS: Yeah. AV: And she grew up with my niece, and you know, they used to be best friends. You know, so it’s cool. MS: A lot of good connections. AV: Yeah. MS: Yeah. AV: A lot of great connections. MS: Yeah. What were some of the hardest things about (or challenges) growing up here? Or also, looking back? AV: I think the one thing with here is, you know, if you do anything wrong, your mom is going to know about it before you even get home. I just felt like there’s – yeah, it can be kind of merciless CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 5 when it comes to the judgment that the community can place on you for actions. So, yeah – keep your nose clean [laughs]. [10:35] MS: [Inaudible] AV: Yeah, it’s – that’s probably one of the hardest things here, I think, is just the talk of the town, and stuff like that. And getting beyond that, and even forgiveness, and stuff like that. It’s not like it doesn’t happen, but it’s – you know, I feel like you just really feel it a lot more. MS: Yeah; and when you say “forgiveness” like the holding grudges thing? AV: Um-hmm. Or letting go of, you know, when somebody does something wrong or whatever, that – yeah – MS: That’s not let go of? AV: Yeah, that you can move past it and yeah; so, once again, it may become because there are so many people that are, you know, kind of rooting for you and kind of pulling your load for you and helping you. Then you do something stupid and you’re like, “Oh, man.” [Laughs] It’s like, “I let everybody down.” And you feel it. And I don’t know if that’s part of the suicide, you know, the count that’s been so high around here. I don’t know. MS: Yeah. AV: It’s rough. It’s really rough. MS: Yeah, has it been in recent years? Or has that been pretty steady? AV: I don’t really know before I got here; but I know that it’s been an issue: it’s definitely something that’s talked about. So, it’s kind of – and it could be, you know – I feel like in a bigger town it’s a lot easier to find a job if you need one. Here, you’re kind of limited, people know you, and sometimes your reputation can preclude you, right? And it’s like, “Oh, man.” So, I don’t know. I don’t know. MS: But it is a factor then? AV: It’s definitely a factor, yeah. MS: That’s unique to a rural community. AV: It is, yep. MS: Yeah. Have you seen those things of, you know, if you do something wrong your mom’s going to know – AV: Oh, yeah. MS: Have you seen that change over time? Better? Worse? Stayed pretty steady? [12:37] AV: It’s pretty steady; still see it, still feel it, still all of it. Yeah. CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 6 MS: Yeah? That’s probably a universal truth [laughing] in this little town. AV: Yeah, it is; I think so. MS: Yeah. [Mumbling quietly] I need to wipe these off evidently [laughs]. What did you – yeah, what did you miss the most when you left? AV: I missed people. I really missed the people. There were a lot of people here that – and I would come back and visit them, and you know. But yeah, definitely the connections of people. MS: Um-hmm. Is there anything, you know, looking back to soon after you moved away, that you realized, “Oh, I didn’t think I missed that, but I do,” is there anything like that, that surprised you that you missed? AV: Mainly just that same thing: when it came to going to school – I wanted those things for my kids, you know; and being in bigger cities and stuff: I could see the difference for sure. Like it was a lot different. And I made great connections; I think that I was fortunate that way. But yeah, I think with going to school (for my kids) that was probably the biggest one is I just really felt connected. And now, I’m the baby of seven, so I had all of my siblings ahead of me, so people knew me. They knew me because of my mom, because of my dad, because of aunts and uncles, and cousins, and everything, right? And so, yeah – it was – And I didn’t learn this until I moved back, but my grandmother (my Grandmother Cook) was a Tuttle, and they’re that cabin that sits on – you know, down there on Main Street and Wellington was her dad’s. And I was like, “Oh, my gosh!” Like stuff like that, that I just never even realized. [14:37] MS: Yeah. AV: And that’s – I’m able to say that because like my dad had me when he was almost 50 years old. So, that’s why there’s like that big gap. So, I kind of identify more of that older generation than, you know, this younger one. So, having older parents. MS: Yes. [Laughter] Your mom did mention how young she was when she got married, but – AV: Yeah, yep. My niece is a year younger than me; she and I grew up more like sisters. MS: Hmm, that [inaudible]. AV: Yeah. MS: Was there anything you expected to find in an urban area that maybe you didn’t? Were there any surprises like the other way, right? If that makes sense? AV: I’m not sure I understand the question, yeah. CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 7 [Laughter] MS: Just when you left the rural place and you had some expectations of what, you know, the city might be, or what getting out of your hometown might look like – were there any surprises there? AV: You know what’s funny – and this is like so bizarre that I would even go this direction with this question. I was really quite afraid of city living. And mainly, my mom moved down to Arizona, and when I’d call and talk to her on the phone she would tell me all of these crime statistics and everything, right? And I don’t know if it was constantly fed to her on the news, or what – but it was something that she talked about all the time. And I remember when I was moving out to northern Virginia, you know, just being right outside of Washington D.C., they were like, “Oh, my gosh – that’s such a scary place. Like it’s got to be so scary.” And I was like, “I’ve never felt safer in my life.” And I made that comment to my sister (who still lives here), and she’s, you know, born and raised here, and she’s raised her kids here, she’s still here. And she’s just like, “I can’t believe you said that, and that you feel that way.” [16:39] And it’s kind of funny, but coming back here I felt scared [laughs]. I was like, it’s just kind of funny that I feel a little more scared here than I did back there, in the big city. And I don’t know why that is. I really laugh at myself because of it, because I have no idea. I don’t know what makes me feel that way. MS: Maybe it’s just everybody’s in your business [laughs]. AV: It may be so, yeah. But even you know, like locking the house up at night, or whatever – and I’m just like, I’ll look out the window. And like this house came with a security system, with cameras and stuff, so I’m like looking at the cameras. And I’ll sit there and just like waiting to see something. And it’s just bizarre; like how stupid is that, you know? I don’t even have any of that stuff back east on my house [laughing]. It’ just funny. MS: That is funny [laughs]. AV: And so that – yeah, like I said: I can’t believe I took that question that direction, but it’s true: it’s like a legit thing, and I don’t know why I feel that way here. Like I think more people are off their rocker here? No, I don’t; I don’t think that. But maybe – I don’t know; it’s so weird. MS: It’s definitely – yeah, like but you know, you were saying your mom bringing up crime all the time – AV: Right. MS: Like that’s definitely something growing up in a small place a lot of people just fear – AV: Yeah. MS: Or, “Oh, I couldn’t handle the traffic,” or, “I couldn’t handle,” and just kind of write it off, right? AV: Well you know what? I’ll share this story because it’s something that happened to me when I was here. We had a peeping Tom that would come to our bedroom window. And my mom – her CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 8 boyfriend actually tackled him and he was arrested. And I’m just like – all these years later, like some of those things – and I always felt like someone was watching me, you know what I mean? It’s like always – One time I was getting ready to go to a church function (like a church dance, or something, I don’t know) and I was ironing my skirt. And where our iron sat was just back from the front door, back in the back room. And so, I’m standing there ironing, and I could see the front door, and somebody walks in my front door: I don’t know who this guy is. And he like looks at me, and I look at him, and I’m like – I have my slip on, but I don’t have my skirt on. And I’m just like, “Okay, I am not leaving this space because if he comes at me I’m totally going to like attack him with this iron,” right? And he just gave me this creepiest smile and walked out. And I just ran to the front door and locked it and looked out. And he was standing on the sidewalk, right? And I asked Mom – because Mom came home shortly after that, and I was just like, “Hey, there was this guy,” and I was like, “I don’t know where he’s at Mom.” And I went and I looked out the windows, and he was standing on the corner now (of our house). And I was just like – and I said, “That’s him.” And she goes, “Oh, I know him, I know him.” And, “You’re okay; it’s just fine,” you know, like chocked off like no big deal. Like, “It was kind of a big deal to me.” [19:34] But even when I was in college my teammates used to laugh at me because I would drive my car to practice (because I played basketball here), but I had violin students afterwards. And I had to take the tape off from getting my ankles wrapped, because it like literally [laughing] cut the circulation off if I had it on forever. And so, I would drive so that I could have time to get that tape off before I taught my first lesson. Well I had some cancellations this one day, so I was like, “Well, I’m just going to walk up,” you know, “to the BDAC” – because I live two blocks down the street. And so, I’m walking up, and I’m not kidding – it used to be the old IGA, but it was a bunch of office buildings, it’s now like Tolley’s Preschool place – I was right in front of that building and this truck pulls up ahead of me in front of that little apartment complex that’s there. And the guy gets out, walks around the front of his vehicle and drops his pants: like totally flashed me. And I didn’t see anything because I like – I felt something was going to happen, I was like on alert as it was. And I just walked like I was going to that office building. And he jumped in his truck and took off. And I looked out at the building – like I didn’t go in the building, I just kind of – and I looked out, and then I just ran the rest of the way. And I’m like – I get there, and just as I’m walking into the BDAC, out walks Tiny, who’s like the cop in charge of investigations (he was this huge cop that they called “Tiny”). And I was like, “Oh, my gosh. I have to talk to you.” [Laughs] Like, “You would not believe what just happened to me.” And so, he was like, “Yeah, after practice come down and give your statement.” And they ended up catching him because he flashed a bunch of women coming out of the Board of Education building (when it was, you know, right there by the junior high school). Anyway, it was like yeah – CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 9 MS: Maybe some residual – AV: There might be a reason why I think this place isn’t as safe as the city – because I’ve never had that happen there. [Laughter] MS: And it’s surprising you didn’t know the guy too. AV: I know, yeah; yeah. So bizarre. MS: [Inaudible] AV: Well, and you know what? Here, like – and it’s true, you notice people, you’re looking them in the eyes, and you’re, “Hello!” And, “How are you today?” And blah, blah, blah. And in the city, you just don’t – like they said, it’s like the quiet awareness, or – I forget; they’ve got an actual term for it where you just like, you know they’re there, but you don’t acknowledge. Like you’re just [snaps] eyes down, don’t meet, just yeah. [22:01] MS: Um-hmm. AV: So, it’s very different. [Laughter] MS: Yeah, it’s just a different way of living. AV: Yep. MS: Yeah. Thinking about (maybe) the future of this area (and we talked about it a little bit) – what do you see Price looking like in ten years? And maybe there can be two of those, like in reality, or maybe if it’s not what you hoped it to be, what you hope it to be. AV: So, doing real estate here in town, that’s – me and my broker were talking about this just yesterday, you know, just what the next six months will look like, and you know, a good projection for ten years. I feel like we have like a lot of investors that have come in and, you know, are doing things. I hope it’s sustainable – that’s my biggest thing. I get, and you know, I’ve heard this my whole growing up life, you know, “We’re the best-kept secret,” you know? And there’s a lot to do around here, and I think it’s a wonderful place, but I don’t think that’s the very best for keeping that community healthy, you know? In all elements of a good community. And you know, welcoming people in with open arms should be important – and I think they do a great job there, to a point, you know? Just don’t raise my taxes, and don’t – you know [laughs]? All these things that come with higher prices and stuff. But yeah, it will be interesting to watch. I was kind of shocked when I got out of college and moved on, I was like, “I don’t know,” because there was a really bad downgrade – I don’t even know the exact years that that would have been – it would have been (probably) the late nineties, early 2000s where I was just like – I felt like this place was on life support as it was. CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 10 But now I come and I’m like, “No, it’s really on life support.” And I was like, “But I don’t know that that is true either.” I just wish I could see more of what keeps it afloat (besides education) at this point. [24:05] MS: Yeah, the college, right? AV: Yeah. MS: Because yeah – definitely with the mining leaving (basically) – AV: Yeah. MS: There’s I think one operating mine left – AV: Um-hm. MS: And then the power plants are transitioning and/or closing [laughs]. AV: Yeah. MS: That leaves a void, right? AV: It does leave a void. You’ve got to do something to keep, you know, people needing to come here, you know? What jobs are going to bring them here? MS: Yeah. And when you’re thinking from your perspective as a real estate – are you a broker? Or agent? AV: I’m an agent, yeah. MS: Agent, yeah. What kinds of people do you see that are coming to Price? AV: That’s what’s crazy is you have a lot of people – I’ve met people from all different – I was going to say California, but it’s like it’s more than California that are moving here for, you know, to be closer to their kids that have moved here, you know, and be closer to grandkids. So, there’s a lot of that generation that: they’re retired, and you know, have the money to buy a nice home and you know. But yeah, other than that it’s just – I haven’t seen a lot of the others. Like, it’s mainly just locals and their kids. MS: Which is a healthy amount to start with. AV: It is. You know, I’m shocked. That is a question my broker asked me yesterday, because I just completed my first year with her, and she was just like, “So, what did you think about this?” And I hadn’t really thought too much about it, but I was shocked with the amount of real estate deals that are done here, really was. There’s a lot of moving and shaking that goes on with real estate. MS: And do you do only like homes – AV: Residential. MS: Residential, yeah. AV: Yep. CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 11 MS: I was trying to remember; not commercial [laughs]. AV: I do some commercial. I mean, I think when you’re in a rural community, you have to like kind of be willing to do it all. MS: Um-hmm. Yeah. I’ve talked to a few people about the downtown area, and you’ve mentioned too, how it’s kind of dead and quiet. And your mother also mentioned that it’s just quiet. Do you see a lot of opportunity for commercial business here? Or are there things that need to change to help it grow? AV: Yeah. [26:30] MS: [Laughs] AV: You know, the thing is, is whereas the commerce is taken up to Spanish Fork, you know, (which is the mouth of the canyon; it only takes you an hour to get up there) – and I know I’m as guilty as the next person, because I make my trip around my shopping up there. And it’s hard on the community, you know. But when you can save a few dollars and whatnot there, then yeah – t That’s what’s killing us too, is that (I don’t know) we used to be that commerce place here, where all these other smaller communities would come here and shop. And we’re not anymore, you know? And downtown is pretty much dead. Like what they have available. There was one Saturday right after I got here, I took my kids down. I was like, “I’m going to show you; like this has got some great stuff.” And all the businesses were close. I think Lee’s Music was the only one that was open. And I was like, you know, and therein lies another issue, right? You’ve got Saturdays when people can shop (that work during the work week), and there’s nothing down here, or you’re closed for business. So, yeah. And there’s really just nothing that brings you down there, too. It’s really sad. That part just makes me sad. MS: Yeah. AV: Because it’s just such a beautiful downtown area (in my opinion). But you’ve got to be selective on the businesses you bring in there, and what you allow them to do to the storefronts, too, that you’re still maintaining that, you know – if you want that vibe of the old. Because those are great buildings; they really are. They’re beautiful, they were well done. But – MS: Yeah. AV: You’ve got to do some upkeep. Have got to keep them looking good. MS: Yeah. We talked about looking into ten years. This is another future hypothetical question: if you were the mayor (or even the county commissioner) what would you do differently here? [28:36] AV: You know, hopefully they have the data that they need to make good, sound decisions. But I trust that they – and if I was the mayor and that, I would hopefully have that in hand, that I could make good, sound decisions for the community. But you know, what of it is when you drive around, the CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 12 community feels tired, it feels worn down. And I know that people are out there, working hard, renovating houses – I see them. And I’ve been fortunate to sell them, you know. But I just think the community needs that too. Like the roads need attention; the weeds. Just kind of that pride in home ownership that used to be a huge part of this coal mining industry, you know? They were very competitive with one another, and not to be outdone by their neighbor – they were out there keeping their yards. And it’s talked about: people know that was the way it was, they took really good care of their place. I just don’t see that the same. I don’t know how you bring that, you know, pride of your community back. MS: Yeah; it’s not just something you can drop in and say, “Here you go.” AV: Right; yeah, no – you can’t. It has to be – yeah, that’s instilled somehow, some way. Not just one person can go around and clean everybody’s yard for them, sorry. It’s the homeowner taking it upon themselves to keep it up. [30:15] MS: Um-hmm, yeah. And when it comes to home sales, have you seen them be pretty steady since you moved here? Or have they fluctuated significantly? AV: Yeah, they’ve been pretty steady. I think they were – the market really turned right before I bought, unfortunately, and it’s pretty much been on that same uptick, you know? Even with the higher interest rates, and with what they’ve done it has dipped some, but you know – and it always does during the winter months. But now that we’re getting into spring, it will probably shoot back up again and we’ll see. We’ll see. We’ve got that mine that just recently closed, and we’ll see. MS: See a lot go up for sale? [Laughs] AV: Um-hmm. See what people do. MS: Yeah. Well I think we’ve hit all the questions I need to ask. AV: Sweet. MS: Is there anything you want to bring up that we didn’t talk about? Or anything you want to clarify or end with? AV: I don’t think so. I think we’re good. MS: Okay, well thank you so much. AV: Yeah, thank you. [End recording – 31:17] CROSSROADS: CHANGE IN RURAL AMERICA: ATALIE COOK VAN DAM 13