Albert Nickel Oral History Interview

Oral History Interview by Ken Verdoia with Albert Nickel. Mr. Nickel worked with his father in the Delta mortuary during World War II, and, as a result, had an unusual but ongoing involvement with Topaz. Mr. Nickel continued to serve the Delta area as a mortician.

• TOPAZ INTERVIEWS Albert Nickle Ken Okay, Mr. Nickle, let's begin with that opening question and thinking back to January of 1942 just after the turn of the new year. Can you recall where you were or what you were doing, or where you were located, your general situation back then. Mr . Nickle Well, I was located, uh, in Delta on,d uh, uh, I had just returned from mortuary school just a short time, well in June of '41, and, uh, my father had a farm and, uh, mortuary. • the in both capacities. I was working on I was working on the farm when, uh, the, uh, most of the time, and when he needed help in the mortuary, then of course I'd take off time to help him. And, uh, I'm living in the same homes I was living when I got back from school. Ken Let me ask you to those, uh, first months of of 1942, uh, it became clear that the government felt it was necessary to move the Japanese American citizens off of the west coast and look for a place in the interior where they'd be safer for a number of reasons. And for a lot of people, perhaps they were surprised but Millard County and the location very close to Delta was considered. What was the Albert Nickle / Page 2 • reaction of the people in the area to, uh, to the the talk of relocating the Japanese to Delta? Mr . Nickle Well, there didn't seem to be in a, from experience, a-and and recollection there didn't seem to be any objections to it. They, uh, knew it had to c-, if they were going to do it they were going to do it, uh, put 'em some place and, uh, they, uh, accepted it as just part of the war efforts. Ken Interesting point we talked about a little bit earlier is that, uh, they needed land and they needed water for, uh, for this camp to work, and, uh, apparently • some people in the area--I'm not going to ask you to name names and all--but it seems like some people in the area thought this might be a a good time to, uh, to sell some of their land and their water. Do you recall that? Mr . Nickle Well, it, uh, those in the area where the, uh, where they had decided to locate the camp, uh, of course did sell their land and their water. There was some that sort of didn't want to sell it, and some that sold it because, uh, they were trying to sell and and liquida- liquidate the their holdings. Ken Since your your background, uh, includes farming, Albert Nickle/Page 3 • and you've been out to that area, uh, tell me about that area as as farmland. Is it good farmland? Hard hard to work--what's what's your opinion of it? Mr. Nickle Well, as far as the the area itself, it's, uh, it's a little harder to work than some of the areas, l.S that it's my opinion that it's been a little harder to work than some of the other areas. Uh, it's, uh , there have been a lot of good good crops produced in those areas and still is. Ken • And, uh, Obviously, uh, you and your father had a unique contact with, uh, the camp at Topaz because you rendered some necessary services for funeral arrangements and, uh, taking care of the needs of families of the deceased. Uh, simply stated, uh, and how do I simply state this? Let let me put it this way--nobody was ever buried in a Topaz cemetary, and since you were and your father were funeral directors and and morticians that included this area, that might seem surprising. Mr. Nickle Well, I think most of 'em are or Why? a a big part of 'em, uh, due to, uh, the Japanese customs of cremation, uh, and then also the fact that a lot of the people, particularly the older folks wanted to go back to Japan for their final resting place. And it was a means for them to be able to trans, uh, fer to Japan Albert Nickle/Page 4 • with minimum cost to them afte.r the war was over. Ken What was your responsibility, say the the camp would would call you up and, or you and your father up and say, uh, Mr. Nickel, um, we've had, uh, we've had a death out here. Could you basically outline for me what what your standard procedure was? Mr. Nickle Well at that point we would, uh, go on out, and most of 'em, well they were all at the hospital when, uh, when we would, uh, get there and we'd go to the hospital and, uh, pick up the body, bring it back to the mortu- • ary and make preparations for services. Uh, they had a very complete hospital there compared to for what we had as far as the caucasian group aro- uh in the area. And, uh, they had a good staff of doctors and, uh, it was it was a very modern type hospital for the facilities. Ken You mentioned that, uh, the funeral services were a number of different religions were included out there in the funeral services, but, uh, you you did mention the flower arrangements particularly were memorable just from their intricacy. Tell me a little bit about why you remember, you recall those floral arrangements. • Albert Nickle/Page 5 Mr. Nickle Well, the floral arrangements that that they had there was very few, uh, live flowers. artificial. All the flowers were They were made, uh, mainly with crepe paper and , uh, uh, when you'd stand back, uh, from a distance to see them, uh, there was very, uh, uh, you you could hardly tell them from the real flowers. And they made the Japanese people are very artistic type people and they, uh, they did put a lot of work and, and, uh, beautiful flowers arrangements. Ken The biggest funeral that that we can find any record of at Topaz was the funeral for a a man by the name • of Wikasa who was a a Japanese citizen who was who was shot out there. And you were involved in some of the events that that revolved around that. What are your- your recollections of that period because apparently out at the camp for a time tensions were high, but what do you recall? Mr. Nickle Well there was, uh, there was, uh, emotions running high as far as the camp was concerned, and they felt like that that possibly, uh, the, uh, incident shouldn't have happened. But the, uh, the individual himself reports were that he was very hard of hearing and, uh, didn't he was climbing through the fence and, uh, uh, area. to go on the outside of the of the, Uh, no one knows whether he was had Albert Nickle/Page 6 • intentions of leaving or just what it was but, uh, they, uh, uh, did feel that there was, uh, the the Japanese people did feel that, uh, there was, uh, probably uncalled for. And yet, uh, the servicemen they they had a job to do and they done what they what they seen that their job was instructed them to do. Ken You indicated, by the way, that the , uh, Japanese citizen was dressed that it looked like he knew what he was doing, that he he may have had being outside on his mind . • Mr . Nickle Well, he was dressed, he had, uh, uh, extra clothes on. He had a heavy, uh, jack- a heavy coat, and he had, uh, even dressed so that he, uh, he had used sweaters to pull over his legs to to give warmth to the legs and and his body, even to that extent. Ken Can you recall, uh, we' we've talked a little bit a-about th-the outlook and the attitude of the people in the area. We've talked with some people who were quite angry, uh, with the Japanese because we were at war. And, uh, even one woman had a, uh, uncle in a prisoner of war camp and she was very, very angry with the Japanese at the time. Can you recall when the Japanese first started arriving, to actually Albert Nickle/Page 7 • go out there in camp, was there any special feeling. I mean, did the people of Delta have any ill-will, or particularly, good will towards them? Mr. Nickle Well, I don't recall of any, uh, any, uh, outward display of ill-will when they came in. they knew when they were coming. They, uh, They had, had, uh, had built a camp and, uh, they they knew they were coming, and that was, uh, people accepted it as a part of the war efforts to, uh, whatever come, the people were all trying to do what they could to to further the, uh, efforts of the war, of the war for • the country. And they figured that was probably one of the one of the things that, uh, was needed for the efforts. Ken You and your father obviously, uh, met some camp residents in particularly difficult times when they had lost a loved one, uh, ·which is never easy, but in terms of your recollections of the people, do you have any broad images or or or recollections of what the people were like, and if someone said, "Well, Geez, why- --what were the people at Topaz like?" What would you tell 'em? Mr. Nickle Well, if you run into, uh, occasions we had, we did go into their homes to talk with 'em, to get, uh, Albert Nickle/Page 8 • information that we needed for for filling out the death certificates and and, uh, other things in their homes, j-just treat ya' just like ya' might have been one of them and there wasn't all that much difference between one of their homes and and, uh, our homes except the fact, of course, they were in, uh, in a camp that was where they had limited, uh, room, and, uh, but I I found 'em very congenial-type people. We did have, uh, uh, some of the, uh, boys that did work worked for us on the farm. They did, uh, release some of the the the, uh, members there that to go out and work in, you know, in the farms and, uh, there • was some of 'em that worked in the, uh, cleaning establishments and other places, and, uh, they did go out. And, uh, they were good, we found they were good good people. Ken Were they good workers? Mr. Nickle They were good workers. Ken Um, one thing that comes to mind is, um, the area out there has pretty much gone back to the way it was before the camp ever existed, and, one thing we've asked a a number of the people we've interviewed is is a concept like Topaz better off forgotten? Is is it better left in the past, or is it worth remembering Albert Nickle/Page 9 • for any reason? Mr. Nickle Oh, I can see no reason to remember it outside of the, uh, the, uh, oh, I think we've got toke- keep it in our memories but, uh, to try to build it up and and make a big thing out of it, I I can see no advantage to it. Uh, it's, uh, it's something that's part of our of our heritage of this area that's happened to us, so I think we need to to know about it and and to, uh, keep up on it. thing out of it But to try to make a big I, uh, I personally don't feel like, uh, we need to worry about it . • Ken Okay. That primarily does it from my standpoint. Colleen--~ny questions? Mr. Nickle We started talking about the flowers, uh, now you're not, that's not on Ken Well, (Background taik) Ken Uh, do you mind me asking you on camera? Mr. Nickle No, go ahead and, Ken Okay, well, uh, the ------------ , at first Albert Nickle/Page 10 • I thought you weren't there, but what do you recall from that? Mr. Nickle Well, uh, as I recall they, uh, as we went to the serv- or to the funeral, why it was all they had a, uh, large platform built that, uh, where all the speakers were and the flowers and, uh, it was, uh, a .large, a very large crowd at the services, and, uh, the part that was outstanding was some of the floral pieces, the arrangements that they had that the people themselves had made . to at the funeral. And they had, uh, not only they had the ministers from the Buddhist, they • had from, uh, the Christians; they had all of 'em, uh, took part on the program. Uh, and it was a very large large, uh, service generally. Ken That's that's what we've, uh, gotten from from some of the records. We we actually have some photographs o-of that funeral. What was the was there any specific attitude, do you recall anything unique about that funeral service outside of the fact that thousands of people were there? Mr. Nickle Well, they was just out, it was different than than the rest of 'em in that it was outside and and and held held on the outside because they didn't they had no building that was large enough to hold the • Albert Nickle/Page 11 the numbers of people that was, uh, was there. Ken ,Yi ; BE p Jar: for a sec narth@ e ....uf; a tid@f • i!LCL t icu e Wb@ J 'h@IIC ICClt' 9 g hack tl t1 at Im tl • g , JG I )lP .. been 00:l!th , Hi. Rltitlc, is ltial qacs dOit, alt , spa i flea lly J € d&.tk Sp&Lt • t t ).