Oral history with EdTrujillo; 2023-05-24 [Transcript]

Oral history of Ed Trujillo, dated 2023-05-24. Topics include basic demographics such as birthdate, place of birth, race and/or ethnicity, as well as childhood, education and work background, family history and traditions, food, culture, historical events, and the challenges of living in Utah.

Trujillo_Ed Audio Wed, May 24, 2023 6:25PM • 1:24:59 SUMMARY KEYWORDS Millcreek, UT; Los Angeles, CA; American Mexican; San Sebastian, Jalisco; Mining; Mexican Civil War; Bisbee, AZ; Miami, AZ; Kansas; Prohibition; Tequila Distillery; Single Mother; GED; WWII; Rosie the Riveter; PTSD; XRay Technician; Home Ownership; Cinco de Mayo; September 16; Día de los Muertos; Segregated Schooling; College Preparatory; Inspiration Consolidated Copper Company; University of Arizona; Dow Chemical; Vietnam War; Predominately White Institution; Racial/Ethnic Discrimination; NASA Moon Landing; Political Assassinations; Cal Tech; University of Utah, Ph.D.; Mathematics, Engineering, and Science Achievement—MESA; Minority Engineering Program—MEP; La Morena Café; Kimberly Clark; Marathon Oil; Incentivized Retirement; Religious Discrimination SPEAKERS Ed Munoz, Ed Trujillo Ed Munoz 00:02 Okay, did you get the message? All right, today's date is May 24 2023. This oral history is for the Peoples of Utah Revisited project. This oral history is with Ed Trujillo and is being conducted via zoom. You live in Salt Lake City? Ed Trujillo 00:26 Actually Millcreek Ed Munoz 00:27 Millcreek. Okay, thank you for that. So, we'll start off with just kind of some basic demographics, as you know, as you reviewed this interview guide, so tell me a little bit about yourself, your birthday, where you were born. What you identify as race and, or ethnicity and if you're bilingual. Ed Trujillo 00:51 My Birthday is April 14 1947. I was born in Los Angeles, California, at the Queen of Angels hospital. My race and ethnicity as you know, there's a number of terms we can use, Like about 1000 different terms, Mexican American and Chicano LatinX, Latino. All those terms. I grew up with all those terms. So when I was in school, it was kind of interesting. You know, going to grammar school and high school. The typical term that was Mexican American, and so I assumed that one, but then when I got to college, then, you know, they got the term Hispanic, because all the forms came out with Hispanic, right? Okay, so that was in the 60s? Kind of 60s or 70s. And then, when I got to graduate schools, then Chicano came to be in and so I identified with the Chicano and now, recently, I guess, LatinX is the current term that they're using. So it doesn't matter to me, you know, I am who I am. And you want to call me any of -1- Transcribed by https://otter.ai those. It's fine. But I think, to me, there should be a term called American Mexican because I was born in the States. So I am a US citizen, but I have Mexican heritage. So to me, I think American Mexican would probably be more appropriate. Ed Munoz 02:34 Okay. Interesting. I find it interesting your comments, because, you know, you probably have a good understanding of each one of those labels. And so yeah, you probably Ed Trujillo 02:47 Yeah and the reason why they came about. Ed Munoz 02:49 Yeah, so that's cool. Yeah, a lot of people don't know about that. I'm kind of the same way. I don't, I could use all of them or whatever. But I do have like a preferred one. And I think I mentioned to y'all before, I'm a Nebrasqueno, you know, so? Alright. Okay, so tell me a little bit about your family history. And let's start with like your parents and your grandparents, like where they are from, and you know, how they ended up either here in Utah, or wherever they ended up and all that. Ed Trujillo 03:23 Well, they didn't end up in Utah. Okay, I think I told you, I, you know, I don't quite understand well, my background is in Arizona, but I've been in Utah for 30 years or so. But it's interesting. My parents, on my father's side, came from a town in Mexico called San Sebastian. I've been doing some genealogy a little bit. It's interesting that they were in that town for generations and generations and generations. Going back, I've got going back to at least, the late 1700s. And so I looked up that town, and actually, it's still there today. And it looks pretty much almost what it did for the last 100 or so years. So this is a town in Jalisco. It's outside of Puerto Vallarta on your way to Guadalajara. So, it's kind of in the mountains area. And historically, it was founded as a mining town. They've been mining in that region for hundreds and hundreds of years. My grandfather, Refugio Trujillo, and of course, nobody knows how to pronounce Refugio so they called him Cuco. His father was a miner and his father's father was a miner and so he was a miner too. But you know, mining in those days, in the early 1900s or so, or even before then was pretty tough work. All you had was a pick and a shovel. And you went into this mine, which was more like a little cave. And you went in there and you're hauling out ore on your back. And so it was rough work, but that was how they survived all those years. So he married my grandmother and my grandmother, Agapita Bernal was also from that town. Their first child was my father, Manuel, well we called him Manuel. Then they had their second about two years later Salvador, my uncle Sal. That was around early 1900s. Well, my father was born around 1913. Then my uncle Sal was born about a year or two after that. But that, as you know, was the time of the Mexican Revolution. And that had a big effect on the family. Because during that time, the mines closed down. Ed Munoz 06:30 yeah, the violence Ed Trujillo 06:34 -2- Transcribed by https://otter.ai The violence and the instability of the government and that sort of thing. And so my grandfather actually worked for a while at odd jobs, he was at one time, he would carry the mail from one town to next and that sort of thing. But then, you know, that didn't go so well and and then they had two more children. But then he had to decide, you know, he couldn't support his family completely. Although there was a lot of support there, as you know, with the generations of Trujillos, they had, you know, so many primos and primas, big supportive family. So he heard about this mining job in Arizona, in a town called Bisbee, Arizona. And so he decided to go for that and so he left by himself and he went to work in Bisbee, Arizona. Then my grandmother, of course, she was with the boys and she had her mother and his mother, you know, so she supported herself to she would make food and that sort of thing. So that went on for about two years and then he came back, and he saved enough money that he could bring the family over. But by then, something happened and his job at the mine in Bisbee wasn't there. So he found another job opportunity in a town, a new town called Miami, Arizona. He moved his family, well, he went there first to check it out and he started work there and he kind of saved some more money and then he brought the family up to Miami. By then they had lost two of their boys to sicknesses and that sort of thing. So it was just kind of the four of them. But that's how they got to Miami, Arizona, and so my father grew up in that town. Ed Munoz 08:59 When did they get to Miami? Ed Trujillo 09:01 It was around the 20s. So he was probably eight or nine. He started school in Miami, went to high school, but as he got older, still in his teens, he got a job at the mine.. So my father worked. My grandfather also worked in the mines. Now on my mother's side. Her family lived primarily in a town called Mexticacan which is close Teocaltiche which again is still in Jalisco, but it's, you know, further east of where my father grew up. Ed Munoz 09:41 Those are indigenous names, right. Ed Trujillo 09:44 Some of them are, yeah. It's kind of interesting, the indigenous people that are involved there. But my grandmother, Diega Mascota had my mother when she was only 15 or 16 And, so my mother was born in Teocaltiche, but the rest of the family lived in Mexticacan. Then my mother started to raise my mother. But my mother's grandmother told her that she needed to get some more support and so somehow she got involved with a man that was coming to the states and again, they got to Miami, but that was by way of Kansas. So the next child my grandma had was my uncle, Joe, around 1920. He was born in Kansas. But then they moved to Miami. So after that, so you're, but my grandmother didn’t bring my mother to the states right away. My mother stayed with my grandmother in Mexico for a while. When they got to Miami, then they got established. And my grandma’s husband, He was kind of, I don't know, there's a lot of stories about him. He was involved with all kinds of things to support the family, so to speak. One of them was of course, you know that the 20s was prohibition. So he got involved in that. You know, Jalisco is known for tequila. So, they knew how to make that. So he had this illegal distillery going and my grandma was part of, it she would sell it., She wouldn't tell them how many bottles she -3- Transcribed by https://otter.ai took but she would take several bottles or so to support the family. He did some other jobs too. So that's how, they finally brought my mother over. So my mother was brought over, and she must have been, again, probably 11 or 12 when she came over, because then my grandma started to have more kids and my mother was the one to help her raise kids, right, because my grandma was trying to get money and trying to survive and that sort of thing. My grandma had, I think five or six more kids. But then, after the last one was born, my Aunt Melito, who was the youngest, something happened to my grandma’s husband and nobody knows the real story. But they tell me that, well he's not my real grandfather. So my mother was born with another father and all the rest of them were kind of her half brothers and sisters. But their father, which was the guy I was talking about, that was doing the distillery and that sort of thing. Somehow, he got into some kind of argument or something. But they said, he did something pretty bad and there was a gun involved and he was run out of town, or he left town. He left his family there so my grandmother was now a single mother, trying to raise all these kids and so she did a number of things. By then my uncles were starting to get old enough that they were able to work. Sometimes they didn't go to school in order to make some money. Eventually they went to work full tme. I think that they might have worked for the mine a little bit. You know, this is in the late 20s or so. With their help she was able to survive. She would raise and sell canaries and, she had chickens so I remember growing up as a young kid, I would like to go visit her because she had all these animals around. So my mother was there and her grandmother, well, my mother's grandmother brought my mother over and so there was a whole family there to support my grandmother. It was my grandmother that really encouraged my mother to go to school and be educated. Because my grandma wanted to pull her out every time she had a kid, she would put her out of school, and she would lose three or four months of school. My mother didn't graduate from high school until she was around 21 or 22 because she would miss several years of school, but it was my great grandmother that encouraged her to stick with it. My mother always loved to read and loved to go to school and she was pro education all the way. She instilled that in in us. , That's my grandparents and my grandmother on my mother’s side Ed Munoz 15:26 Is your mother the only one of your parents and grandparents that was educated then? Ed Trujillo 15:33 I guess you’re right as far as the grandparents are concerned. I don't think they were educated. And my mom told me these stories about her grandmother, and I'm not sure about this, but she used to be fairly well off so she was well schooled. She was homeschooled, she said, and there's a story that said that she was taught by a tutor, and she was taught how to read. And she was taught about science and you know, all that stuff, but they wouldn't teach her how to write. And my mom said, the reason why was that they didn't want her to write notes to boys. Ed Munoz 16:23 Another control mechanism, right, Ed Trujillo 16:24 Right, another control mechanism. So she couldn't write very well, but she was well versed. She would, read medical books and that sort of thing. She would operate on, you know, these little birds that would eat something that made their stomachs explode, and she would operate on them and saved them. So -4- Transcribed by https://otter.ai my great grandmother, was pretty well educated, and I think that's what she wanted to instill in my mother as well. On my father's side, of course, they wanted all the males to work in the mines to support the family. A lot of them didn't go on to college. They were lucky to go to high school, my dad had to go to work before he finished high school. So he got his GED later on. That was as far as his education went. But, my other uncles and aunts on my father's side most all had post-high school experiences My grandparents made sure that they finished high school and I think almost all of them went on to college. Ed Munoz 16:30 Wow. That's pretty. That's pretty good. In that era. Yeah. Ed Trujillo 16:50 Because education was the priority on both sides was good once they got enough money to support themselves. Ed Munoz 17:41 So, and the men mostly did mine work and the females, your family, mostly housewives and stuff? Ed Trujillo 17:49 Females, it's kind of interesting, they really were on their own. The Trujillo family knew the owners of one of the downtown supermarkets and so they got close with that family. A lot of the family worked for them, you know, sales clerks, doing the stocking, packing groceries and that sort of thing so, that helped a lot with the finances. Then they also knew a family that owned the movie house. And so the family would, you know, do the cleaning of the movie house and that sort of thing. But my mother, interesting enough, she had a number of jobs. She was a hard worker. She worked during the war. My parents got married about 1940 just as the war was starting. They had my older brother at the time., There's only three of us, my older brother, David, my sister Katie and me. So David was born in Arizona, around 1940. Then, in 1941, my father enlisted into the army so they've only been married one year when my father enlisted and so my mom she decided because she had some family support there to go to Los Angeles. She went there and she lived with, I can't remember it was a relative of my father's or somebody else's. But she had somebody that was able to watch or take care of my brother while she worked because she was able to find good paying jobs in Los Angeles. One of her jobs was Rosie the Riveter. So she was one Yeah, Rosie the Riveter. Ed Munoz 19:58 Rosita, cool! Ed Trujillo 20:02 She would do some other odd jobs, then my father would come and furloughs to Los Angeles. As it turned out his other brother, Sal, also had roots in Los Angeles. So a lot of the Trujillos were in Los Angeles, as well as my mother. There was a support system there. So my father would visit and then on one of his visits, my sister was conceived. She was born around 1944 and then, of course, the war ended around 45. Then my father came back and they were able to get housing, you know, the government housing projects, that were built, primarily for the war veterans. We lived in the projects -5- Transcribed by https://otter.ai there for a couple of years. I think what happened in retrospect, and I'm not confident, but I think what happened with my father, was that he was sent overseas and he was in several battles of the big WWII battles over there, and he was one of the medical assistants, I think. I think that really affected him, so I think when he came back, he was having some issues, and he had started o drinking. He became dependent on alcohol a little bit and I think it was probably because he had some PTSD, or something. They didn't call it that in those days. They didn't know about it that much. But in retrospect, he would never talk about the war at all. He just wouldn't talk about it. But he had received several medals. He got a bronze medal, he got so many medals, heroic medals., He was in that battle of the invasion. So, the drinking led to a lot of grief between my mother and my father, because my mother was trying to raise two kids and then I was born in 47 so now there was three of us there. When he was sober, he was a wonderful dad having to do everything but he would go out and, he wouldn't come home for two or three days and then we didn't know where he was, and that sort of thing. That eventually led to a divorce, they got divorced around 1949, I guess it was more between 1949-1950 or so. Just before the divorce, our family returned to Miami, Arizona. So when they divorced, my mother was with three kids in Miami. And, we were able to get housing there, I think, through my dad. So we lived in another housing projects in Miami. But it was mostly just my mother and the three of us. And then she took up jobs and she was a receptionist at an eyeglass store and she did work in the supermarket as a cashier for several different supermarkets. And then finally she got a job as a technician for the hospital doing X rays. So she was moving up all this time and she always worked really hard. She saved her money and she was able to buy some houses as we grew older. That was where I grew up. So I was about two or three years old when i moved to Miami. That's where I grew up in Miami, Arizona. Ed Munoz 24:07 So you said she bought houses. So she had a number of properties then? Ed Trujillo 24:12 As it turned out, she started really small, right? Because she bought this little house where I grew up with my sister. It was only one bedroom and one bath and the living room and a kitchen and a dining room. By this time my brother he had already graduated and started a family in Tempe Arizona. It was just me and my sister and so my sister and my mom would sleep in the bedroom and I had a little cot in the dining room. That's where I would sleep. When we had to use the dining room, I had to fold up my bed. So, but it was small, but then, she saved her money, and she was able to buy a house next door that was bigger that came on sale. And she had enough money since the current house gained value. She was able to sell the old house and get the new house. Then the house next to that was even bigger and she bought that one later. So she was moving up, so to speak. Ed Munoz 25:24 Okay, but each time she sold and then bought? Okay, yeah, my parents bought houses and had several houses and we're renting them out to my sister's and stuff like that. So yeah, but then they got, well, when they got older, it got harder to keep the houses up and all that. So they got rid of all of them now. So do you remember and this kind of segues into your childhood as well? Do you remember any family traditions that really stick out in your mind for you? Ed Trujillo 26:05 -6- Transcribed by https://otter.ai We had the usual traditions, you know that we would celebrate the Cinco de mayo, and the 16 de September and all that stuff. But we didn't do the traditional traditions. My sister didn't have a Quinceanera. We couldn't afford it for one thing, but even the ones that could, I don't remember going to a Quinceanera in Miami that I can think of. With all the Mexicans that were there, probably maybe because they were too poor. Those traditions we didn't have. But you know, our favorite holiday, one of them was Halloween, Dia de los Muertos. And so we would celebrate those, so that traditional ones are the only ones I can think of as far as the holidays go, but we do the traditional American holidays. Fourth of July,, Thanksgiving and Christmas, New Years, all that stuff. Ed Munoz 27:01 Okay. All righty. So, do you have some particular memories about your neighborhood, school, church, sports, organizations, dating, any or or all of those? Ed Trujillo 27:14 Well, growing up in Miami was really different. Now that I look back on it And a lot of us are grown up now, most of us have left Miami. We look back at it, realize it was a unique situation. I think what happened was the town originally was a mining camp, in the early 1900s and so they were all working in the mines, but they were camping in this area. Then a land developer came and bought all the land. Then he started to sell properties, so it turns out that a lot of the miners were able to buy properties and build houses and that sort of thing. So once they started doing that, that drew in merchants and so the town started to bring in grocery stores and such. There was a company store that was there. They built the YMCA. But the important thing was the schools. Initially, they had segregated pre-secondary schools. So the grammar schools and the elementary schools were originally segregated, as my mother told me. So they had schools for the Hispanics and the American Indians and then the other schools were for the white children. Ed Munoz 28:41 Okay, so you went to school with indigenous folks. Ed Trujillo 28:46 Not me, it was my mother’s generation. But the high school, they only had one high school. So it was kind of interesting. So the high school was not segregated and so even though all these kids came from the segregated schools, when they got to high school, they had to work together. Whoever made that decision should be congratulated, because that's when they learned how to, you know, live together. I didn't see a lot of discrimination. So, when I grew up, and it turns out that during the 40s, late 40s, early 50s through a number of issues, one of them was the high school basketball team,, they got rid of all the segregation. By the time I went through school, went to the elementary school. I didn't see the segregation, when I was growing up., I didn't, I didn't even know that I was a minority. I was a happy go lucky little kid, thanks to my mom. She was able to raise me like that and we never saw it. At least I didn't see any direct discrimination. She told me that there was a lot when she was growing up. She could see it when she was trying to get jobs and that sort of thing. But for some reason, by the time I got older there, I didn't see it. I had a lot of friends, a lot of them were Hispanic friends from around the projects, and we would go out and, you know, we would play in the tailings in the mines, go into creeks and that sort of thing. And, when I grew up, the projects were interesting. One of our neighbors was an -7- Transcribed by https://otter.ai artist who actually drew some paintings for the church, and they would hang them in the church, and he'd redo sculptures. He had a number of classical records that I for some reason, liked to listen to the classical records, I had a pretty broad education when I was growing up. But the best thing was when I got to high school, and well as I was growing up too of course I was doing odd jobs, so I sold newspapers to make money and I also worked in that grocery store, you know where the Trujillos were. I had a job of sorting the glass bottles so they could resell them. When I got to high school, I got this real nice job as a projectionist in the movie theater. So I was able to see all the movies for free. But, I was the only technician there so if there was a break in the film, I had to splice it and put it back together. But, that was a nice job, and it paid pretty well, too. That's how I got through high school and paid for my way. But I was, I don't know, I hate to say this, but it was that I had a lot of friends in high school, and so I was class president. Ed Munoz 32:22 Why would you hate to say that? Ed Trujillo 32:24 Well, sounds like I’m bragging.. Ed Munoz 32:29 That's okay. Ed Trujillo 32:30 I don't want to do that. But I was I was class president our freshman, sophomore, junior years, and then I was student body president my last year. Ed Munoz 32:43 Can I ask you about like, how big was Miami then? Ed Trujillo 32:50 I think about 8,000 to10,000 and our high school, my graduating class had about 165. So times four, that meant the high school had about 800 kids. Ed Munoz 33:05 And the demographics and racial ethnic demographics, what were they? Ed Trujillo 33:10 Well, I don't know. It's hard to say I would say 60% Mexican American and the rest white, but the white were split. You know, we had a lot of Slavic students and then, of course, a lot of the Americans from the European states were there, too. So we were pretty well mixed. We had a few American Indians that were there too. I only remember a few black people there. There were very, very few African Americans there. Ed Munoz 33:53 But people of color outnumbered whites then? -8- Transcribed by https://otter.ai Ed Trujillo 33:56 Yes, by a large margin but the whites were in charge of the town Ed Munoz 34:06 Yeah, they had the power, right. Ed Trujillo 34:08 Yeah they were the owners of the businesses and city council and all that stuff. Of course, the mine administrators were all white. Their families lived there. So, I think the reason why we had such good schools was because, you know, Miami was 80 miles east of Phoenix. All the mining supervisors and administrators, they had to raise their family there, they didn't want to do the commute every day. So they had to raise their families in Miami. So they made sure that you know, that all the schools were able to bring in the top teachers from all over the country to teach and they would pay them very well so that everybody at the high school was taught a college level education so that they could go to college. So I mean, their courses and the high school teachers were so good that if you graduated from Miami, you could easily go on to college if you had the means. Of course, we didn't have the means, but I was lucky enough to get a scholarship. When my brother, this is kind of a sad story. My brother was also before me, He's seven years older than me, so when he went to high school, he was also pretty popular. He did pretty well in school and so he was expecting to get some kind of scholarship, you know, when he graduated. As it turns out, during the graduation ceremonies, he didn't get anything, and so he said well, I wonder why and then he found out that you had to apply in order to get scholarships. Ed Munoz 36:03 First generation right? Ed Trujillo 36:06 Nobody told him that he had to apply, the poor guy. So when I went through, he said you better apply for everything, so I did. I applied for everything and I was lucky to get one of the top scholarships from the mining company. It was one of the best scholarships from Inspiration Consolidated Copper Company. Which was a full ride to the University of Arizona. Ed Munoz 36:32 Wow, nice. Ed Trujillo 36:33 And they would pay room and board as well as the tuition stuff. Ed Munoz 36:38 So that was to University Arizona in Tucson? Ed Trujillo 36:41 -9- Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yes, Tucson. For summer employment, the company gave you a job and you could make a couple of thousand dollars during the summer, coming back to Miami and working in the mines, while doing odd jobs. So the first two years in my college career I worked in the mines during the summers. Then my third year, I think, what did I do my third year? No, I can't remember. I think I did stay in Tucson. Oh, yeah, no, that was when I got the job in Texas, because I got a job with Dow Chemical. That's another story. You know how you look for summer jobs when you're in college, trying to find the best paying job so they come to your college recruiting, all these companies? Well, you know, this was during the Vietnam War, right? And so there were a lot of protests going on and one of the protests was protesting Dow Chemical. I think because they were involved with napalm. Dow was recruiting for some summer assignments, so I had to make a decision. They came to the university center recruiting, I signed up for a time to recruit with them, but during that day, there was a sit-in protest at the recruiting center, and so I had to gingerly walk around the protesters. I went to the interview. I feel bad about it. But, I needed the money. Ed Munoz 38:55 Those are the kinds of decisions you're faced with when you're young. Ed Trujillo 38:58 Yeah, it was hard. So I think I got the job because I did that. Because a recruiter said, Well, you know, we were impressed that you were able to go through the protesters just to get the job and so I got a job there and went to work for Dow for that summer in Freeport, Texas, which is close to Houston. Ed Munoz 39:24 Okay, so is there anything you miss about living in Miami? Ed Trujillo 39:33 The thing I miss is, you know, this was a small town so everybody knew everybody. So yeah, I didn't see a lot of crime. Our doors were left unlocked because we knew our neighbors. If anybody did something wrong, you know, everybody would know almost before the police would know. So it was a nice town to grow up in, like I said, I didn't see any discrimination. The only discrimination as saw was when I went to college. Well, when I went to college, that's when I learned I was a member of a minority group. I said, What? Ed Munoz 40:18 Predominantly White institution? Ed Trujillo 40:20 Yeah. You're Mexican American or Hispanic and so you're one of the minority groups. So. but again, in the school, I didn't see any. This was Arizona, you know, predominantly Hispanic environment, that sort of thing. But when I did see discrimination was during the summer that I worked in Texas. So I flew my mom over to meet me, in Houston Texas and the end of summer. It was the first time she was on an airplane. I was able to send her a first-class ticket. She liked that. She said “Oh, I love going flying. Let's do it again.” We were going to drive back together. So we're gonna drive back from Houston to Miami, Arizona. On our drive back and in small town, in West Texas, we stopped to get lunch, and fill - 10 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai up the car with gas. So we went into this little town and in a cafe and we sat down. We're waiting for the menu and that sort of thing. We waited and waited and waited and other people came in, and they gave them menus. They didn't give a menu to us. Then I was starting to get angry so I said, I'm gonna go talk to somebody. Something's going on. And then my mother said, no, no, no, no, mijo, let's just leave. Ed Munoz 42:12 Yeah, she knew. Ed Trujillo 42:15 She knew what was going on. Ed Munoz 42:16 That was in west Texas you said? Ed Trujillo 42:18 Yeah that was in West Texas. Ed Munoz 42:20 What year was that? Do you remember? Ed Trujillo 42:22 1960? Would've been, let's see. 69 or so. Ed Munoz 42:27 Okay. All right. So there was already like the civil rights laws in place. They were still segregating or not serving people. Ed Trujillo 42:40 That was during that time, right. That was the only time that I saw discrimination directly. Ed Munoz 42:48 So do you go back to Miami at all? And do you have any relatives? Ed Trujillo 42:52 Oh yeah, I still had my aunt, the youngest on my mom's side. She stayed there and she actually lived with my grandma for a long time. When my grandma passed away, she inherited the house. She stayed there for a long time and then she raised her one child, my cousin Valerie who also went to Miami High School. So she was there and then, of course, the Trujillos, so many of them and they stayed there for a while before moving towards Phoenix. So we would go back and visit with my dad's relatives as well as my mom's relatives quite frequently. Well, like I said, my mom lived there, till I went to college and then she moved to San Manuel, once I got to Tucson. Then finally, she went to live with my brother in California. Near my brother. Ed Munoz 43:58 - 11 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai Okay. All right. Ed Trujillo 44:00 We would visit, but now Miami is a ghost town. Ed Munoz 44:04 Oh, really? Ed Trujillo 44:05 Yeah, it's kind of unfortunate. The mines, they closed the underground mine around the 1950s or so and people moved away but fortunately, there's a sister town Globe, Arizona, which is about seven miles away. They also have mines there too. So a lot of them could go there. But Miami now is just almost like a ghost town. There's still a few people there and a couple of stores but it's kind of sad. They tore down the beautiful High School. The high school was, you know, had pillars. It looked like the Smithsonian, it was just a beautiful structure, they tore that down and they built a new high school further away. But that high school now is pretty small. They actually had to combine it with another school. So they have the Junior High and High school together. The town is still there. But, we just go to visit my cousin and some of my aunts that still live in that area. Ed Munoz 45:11 When you say we? Rose and you? Ed Trujillo 45:13 Yeah, Rose and my sister sometimes, she hasn't visited in a long time and my brother hasn't visited in a long time, too. But yeah. Ed Munoz 45:24 Okay, cool. All right. So you mentioned Vietnam War and you mentioned well, you know, kind of piecing together things in the civil rights. What, do you remember most about historical events, and it doesn't have to be limited yourself to, you know, like that era or whatever. What do you think probably made the most impact on you? Over the years, historically. Ed Trujillo 45:49 You mean, national historic event? Ed Munoz 45:51 Yeah. You know, whichever. Ed Trujillo 45:53 Probably one that I remember was because, you know, I am a technical guy, an engineer. One of my summer jobs after I graduated from college, was in 1969. I was accepted into graduate school, Cal Tech for a master's degree. So that summer before Cal Tech, I got a job with NASA. Ed Munoz 46:23 - 12 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai I was just watching the Right Stuff last night. Ed Trujillo 46:30 Oh, good. Yes. so you know how NASA works. I was really glad to get that job because well, I was originally going to be an aeronautical engineer so I could be an astronaut. I changed after my chemistry course. Because I loved chemistry so much I changed my major to chemical engineering. But, that job was when as you know, was when the first men landed on the moon. So I was working for NASA in their Houston center when that happened. That was quite an event to me because, you know, I had a little TV, black and white when it happened. But to be involved with that, agency, at that time, that made an impression on me, because for NASA at that time, safety was the number one priority. It's amazing all the engineering feats that they go through, and all these top and very bright people that are working on this, you know, trying to make things work. That impressed me but landing on the Moon was a very historical event to me. But then, before that, of course, the assassination of JFK, you know, I was in high school, I think, and I remember, we didn't have a cafeteria for speak of, but there was a little Mexican restaurant, not even a restaurant. It's more like a cafe right across the street. So I was there when the word got out. When we went back into class, of course, they made the announcement and that was very sad. My mother was very affected too, because she was a campaign volunteer when he was running for president. As a matter of fact, she was fired from her job because she was campaigning for JFK. She had to get another job. But yeah, his assassination was another one. Then of course, there was a whole series of assassinations, Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King. So those were I guess, the most historical events that kind of influenced me. I couldn't understand why someone would assassinate someone. I couldn't understand at that time. You know, that there are some people with different opinions that would get violent and I guess, we're still dealing with that today. Ed Munoz 49:25 Right. Right. Exactly. So anything more contemporary that's kind of left an imprint on you.? Ed Trujillo 49:37 Like historic events? Ed Munoz 49:41 If not, that's okay. We can move on. Ed Trujillo 49:44 Like I said, not as much as those did. Ed Munoz 49:48 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Child of the 60s. Okay, so let's move on to like college and work experience and all that. So you mentioned a little bit about college. What else can you tell me about your college experience? Ed Trujillo 50:07 It was tough, the curriculum was tough. I really enjoyed school, like the chemical engineering department was pretty small. And so you know, our class was maybe 20-30 students. Of course, you - 13 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai kept the same people as you moved up. So you got to know these people pretty well. It was a fun time. I enjoyed college a lot, then after I graduated from there, I went to Cal Tech. And of course, that was a big change. Because I was very competitive. Ed Munoz 50:46 Cal Tech is where? Ed Trujillo 50:56 In Pasadena, California, Ed Munoz 51:00 Is It still called Cal Tech? Ed Trujillo 51:02 Oh, yeah. Cal Tech is one of the major engineering colleges in the country, likeMIT. Ed Munoz 51:10 Okay. Wow, you're awesome, man. Ed Trujillo 51:18 Yeah, well, Caltech, JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory. They have a number of Nobel Prize faculty. That's what influenced me too, I could always go to seminars with Nobel Prize speakers, like Linus Pauling who won a Nobel Prize in Chemistry. He was a professor there. Ed Munoz 51:39 What was his name? Ed Trujillo 51:41 Linus Pauling. Cal Tech is noted for a high number of Nobel Prize winners on their faculty. That environment was very stimulating to me. I mean, I could see, these were the top people in the country. I was able to actually have lunch with some of them if I wanted to. So that was a neat environment. But then, I got my MS degree, and I was thinking of going to pursue my PhD, but I wanted to take a break. So I went to work for a paper company called Kimberly Clark, you probably heard of it. So here I was with a MS in chemical engineering from Caltech and I was making toilet paper, right. And, paper towels, and all kinds of stuff. Which I found actually interesting, you wouldn't believe the science that goes into making those things. Like getting the colors right, and it was really an interesting process and I enjoyed working there for a while and I was working in Southern California. I'm making good money. So yeah, here I was, a single guy, you know, making good money. I was able to buy my first new car and that sort of thing. After a year, I decided to go back to graduate school. So I was applying to Cal Tech and other schools, then I got this letter from a Professor Christiansen, from the University of Utah. And I said to myself, Where's Utah? Somehow, he got my name from my advisor at the University of Arizona. He was looking for somebody to come in as an instructor, as well as pursue a PhD, so you would be paid a higher salary than a graduate student. Sort of a member of the faculty, right. But you were able to pursue your own PhD at the same time, that was appealing to me. So I came up here and - 14 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai interviewed and got to meet the people, then I said, let's give it a try. So that's my first introduction to Utah Ed Munoz 54:22 When was this? Ed Trujillo 54:23 It was 1971 So I came here as a graduate student/instructor. So I was teaching like two or three courses, obviously undergraduate courses, as well as taking graduate courses at the same time. Ed Munoz 54:43 Two - three courses a semester? Ed Trujillo 54:45 No, no a year! That would have killed me. And this was during the quarter system. Ed Munoz 54:53 So basically, a TA then right? Ed Trujillo 54:57 Basically, but I was in charge of the whole course as an instructor, I actually had some TAS working for me. I got to choose my own PhD dissertation. My advisor was Dr. Boyd, in the department. He's actually a physical polymer chemist. My dissertation was encapsulated enzymes for enzyme therapy. So this was one of the first bio dissertations I think that the department had. So I was kind of on my own but through his help, and his connections, I got to work with a medical doctor at the University Hospital, and we were doing some things with enzymes, trying to see how enzymes could work within the body and I did some mathematical modeling and that sort of thing. That was my dissertation. So that's what I was doing here, from 1971 to 1975. But at the same time, that's when I got introduced to the Hispanic community in Salt Lake City. During that time, I don't know if you know, the history, you know, SOCIO started around 1960s. Ed Munoz 56:29 Do you remember what SOCIO stands for? Ed Trujillo 56:33 Not exactly, society? Ed Munoz 56:36 I'll find out, I'll look it up. I know I've seen it a couple of times, but I can't remember it. But I know a little bit about it. Ed Trujillo 56:45 That's where you know, Archie Archuleta and all those guys. Orlando Rivera, Bill Gonzalez, all these people here, you know, the Utah figures, they started all that. I don't know if you heard about the - 15 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai Guadalupe center. During that time, there was a Guadalupe Center, which was run by a Catholic priest, Father Merrill. It was for the Hispanic community, mostly the poor people, on the west side. He established this, what they call the Guadalupe center. What he did was they opened up a restaurant that was called La Morena Cafe, to help support the center, right, and, they would help the poor people. If they needed food and stuff, they would do that, but the cafe, it was very good Mexican food so I would, I would eat there. But they also had education courses there. I volunteered to teach English. I was there doing that, during that time, as I was a graduate student, and I got to know you know, a lot of the people there. A lot of them were, you know, migrant workers sometimes, but a lot of people wanted to stay at that time. I then I got also involved with social workers, they were, you know, they were trying to promote, you know, getting more things for Hispanic people. That was my volunteer work a lot there. So that was my first introduction to Salt Lake City. I got my degree in 1975, then I was looking for a job with my PhD in Chemical Engineering and I wanted to stay in the bio field, but there were no jobs in the bio field. There were a lot of jobs in the oil industry. So I decided to go and interview for Marathon Oil Company in Littleton, Colorado doing research on enhanced oil recovery. I said, what does that have to do with my dissertation in bio enzymes and it turns out that flows in oil reservoirs that is flow through porous media is very much like membranes in your body and so you know, mathematically they're almost identical to equations you use. So, so that was the connection, but it was an entirely different area --enhanced oil recovery. You know, when you drill a well, you get this gusher coming out. Once you remove enough oil the oil pressure isn't enough for the oil to come up to the top. But there is still 60% to 70% of the oil in the ground, so if you can come up with a way to bring up the rest of that oil, you can bring a lot more oil out of that oil well. We were trying to do that chemically. So we would pump chemicals around the well, making it simple. Talking about a single oil well. But basically you pump chemicals around it and push the oil towards the producing well. So that was what we were trying to do, a very interesting mark, and I was working with very bright people as well. We would go on field trips, and you would try to test this chemical (a polymer) in the field and see if it worked and that sort of thing. So, I really enjoyed it and enjoyed Colorado. Ed Munoz 1:01:08 You said Littleton right? Ed Trujillo 1:01:09 Yeah, Littleton, you know where that is? Ed Munoz 1:01:11 That's where my girlfriend teaches. Ed Trujillo 1:01:14 No way. Ed Munoz 1:01:15 Yeah, she'll be here tomorrow. She's finished with school. Ed Trujillo 1:01:23 Did she grow up there? - 16 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai Ed Munoz 1:01:24 No, she grew up in western Nebraska where I grew up. It's a long story, but I'll tell you later, okay. But yeah, she teaches in Littleton. Ed Trujillo 1:01:36 How long has she been teaching there? Ed Munoz 1:01:38 20 some years probably. Yeah, she's looking to retire. We graduated in 77. I graduated in 77. She graduated in 79. We were in a swing choir together in school. Yeah. But like I said, we'll talk about that some other time. Ed Trujillo 1:02:03 Yeah I'll have to talk to her about Littleton. I had friends there, really close friends that I still keep in touch with them now. We would do a lot of hiking and skiing and that sort of thing in the Colorado mountains. One of our goals was to climb, you know, there's about 53 mountain peaks over 14,000 ft ft in Colorado. So one of the goals was to climb all of them. And one of my friends made that goal. I would go on climbs with him, but I came in a little late. I only climbed about 19 of them I think, but that was what I really enjoyed. I was still single. Right so. Ed Munoz 1:03:03 I've been wondering about that. Ed Trujillo 1:03:09 I really enjoyed living in Littleton, but then, you know, after about nine years, things started to get a little routine, I wanted to go back to teaching. And I wanted to get back into the biofield area. I decided after nine years, I started looking for an academic position. That's when I interviewed several schools and I got a couple of offers. One was from Ohio State, but then I got this one from Utah and of course, you know, I was an alumnus, so they knew me. I knew the area so I decided to come here. So that was in 1984. So I left Marathon, a real high paying job. And I came here and taught at a lower paying job, but you know, that's what I wanted to do. And so I came here in 84 as an assistant professor in the department. Ed Munoz 1:04:22 You got tenure and all that. Ed Trujillo 1:04:26 Well, eventually but it wasn't an easy path. Ed Munoz 1:04:31 None of us really have an easy path Ed Trujillo 1:04:35 - 17 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yeah, but when I was hired. It was one of these. As I learned later, you know how they do at universities. They try to get money from all sources. So part of my salary was coming from the administration building so they wanted to increase diversity right? So that's how I got hired, it was through that program. They were telling me, you don't have to do anything, but it was kind of inferred, you know, that I would help with diversity issues, which I wanted to do anyway. So my service part, you know, research, teaching and service. I probably did more in service than I should have. Ed Munoz 1:05:36 That's what they always make us do. Ed Trujillo 1:05:39 Yeah and that happens to all of us. Right? You can get caught up in that and then you don't spend as much time in your research. Ed Munoz 1:05:51 Right. Ed Trujillo 1:05:54 But that's what I wanted to do anyway. So, when I interviewed with the Vice President of Academic Affairs and the Associate Vice President for Academic Affairs, they said, why don't you help us, you know, establish something here in Salt Lake City, to get more underrepresented students at the university. I said, okay, because I had some experience in that area in Colorado. I was part of the Colorado Minority Engineering Association. They had programs that involve, you know, grammar school and high school students. And their goal, again, was to get them to enroll into STEM careers after they graduated from high school and go on to college. I had some experience there. Working with the Associate VP for Academic Affairs, we started making calls. We got the State Office of Education involved, and we got some school districts and we started talking. And that's when we established the Utah MESA MEP Organization, which was a nonprofit organization, and I actually helped write the bylaws and that sort of thing. That was the beginning of the Utah MESA program, if you're familiar with that at all. So this was a an organization based on California's MESA MEP organization, which was proven to be very successful in California. What they do is they work with the schools and they actually work within the school with the teachers in the school, and they form these clubs, MESA clubs. Ed Munoz 1:07:54 That's spelled MESA? Ed Trujillo 1:07:56 Right? Stands for mathematics, engineering and science achievement. Ed Munoz 1:08:00 Okay. All right. Ed Trujillo 1:08:03 - 18 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai They work with teachers in the schools and with the junior highs and in the high schools, and they formed these clubs, science clubs, and then they work with universities, and they bring these clubs, to the universities for tours and universities go into schools and talk to them, you know. So, remember, this is in the 1980s. It's very successful in California so we wanted to establish the same thing in Utah. So that's what we did. Our first school was with the Granite School District. So I was working with Richard Gomez from the State Office of Education, and at the Granite School District with Tony Gonzalez and his team and we had our first program started there with about, I can't remember maybe around 100 students. Ed Munoz 1:08:59 Wow, impressive. Okay. All right. So let me ask a quick question. So you say MESA MEP, and what's the MEP stand for? Ed Trujillo 1:09:01 MEP stands for Minority Engineering Program. It proved pretty successful. And so, the MESA MEP organization was a consortium. It was a consortium of public schools, universities and colleges in Utah, obviously and then industry, Right. Then the community, So there were these four pillars of the organization and we would meet as a board of directors, and we would have representatives from each of those groups involved. The whole idea was, let's have these successful programs so we can increase the number of minorities and it was for all minorities, right? Not just Hispanics. It was for African Americans, American Indians and women as well. As I mentioned, MEP is the college level and it stands for a minority engineering program. So once these kids graduate from MESA from the high schools, they go into MEP programs in the various colleges or universities. They could go to Utah State or whatever. We're hoping they would go to the U of U. Anyway, so that's what that stands for. So these four pillars, and so it was a unique organization that was proven to be very successful. We would get people from industry that were involved at the high level. So they would, you know, we could get funding from them as well. And actually, we got national grants and that so that we would write grants and get some funding from the national organization associated with MESA MEP, and they would give us a startup fund. But on a community level, we had on our first board of directors, Alberta Henry. I don't know if you heard of her? From NAACP. Ed Munoz 1:11:04 I think, yeah. Ed Trujillo 1:11:06 Gretta Peterson, who was the wife of the current, at that time, President of the University, was also on our board. We had people from Martin Thiokol, and all these professional people on our board. We had the state office, as I mentioned, the Granite School District and, then we started to expand. I was the first president of the board and I was president for I think the first three or four years or so and then I gave it to somebody else and then I came back. So I was involved with this group for about, nine years or so. Okay. Then what happened towards the end was it got so successful, we were in several school districts, not only granite, but Salt Lake and even up in Ogden. We would drive up to Ogden, for meetings several times. So it expanded, pretty much statewide and then we got involved with the state legislature, and we were able to get a line funding from the state legislature for this program. They were - 19 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai funding obviously, the public schools, right. So we got some funding from them, then it got so big that the public schools eventually took over the MESA program. And then they let the other universities control the MEP programs, there was still a board. But you know, we weren’t as powerful as before because they took the funding and gave it to the State Office of Education who distributed to the district. But it still exists today, there’s a Utah MESA program today and from our 100 students the first year, I heard they had over 5000 kids enrolled in their program recently. That's where I spent a lot of time as a professor. As you can see, I probably shouldn't have but I enjoyed doing it. Ed Munoz 1:13:21 Yeah, I know what you mean, I got colleagues that have some similar career paths as well. Now you're retired, right? Ed Trujillo 1:13:33 Yep, now I’m retired. Ed Munoz 1:13:34 How's retirement? Ed Trujillo 1:13:38 I enjoy it. Well, you know, I got married along the way. Ed Munoz 1:13:47 I was gonna ask you about that as well. Where did that happen? Ed Trujillo 1:13:53 Well, with all the committee work that I was doing. I met Rose on one of the those committee's I can't remember which one. She was at the time working for EEO at the university. Ed Munoz 1:14:07 Okay. Ed Trujillo 1:14:08 University Affirmative Action and that sort of thing. So, we got married in 1988. Then we had our son, Miguel, in 1989. Ed Munoz 1:14:26 Okay, yeah, for some reason, I lost you there a little bit. So you got married in 1988. Okay. Ed Trujillo 1:14:35 We had Miguel in 1989. Okay. Ed Munoz 1:14:42 Late bloomers then right! - 20 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai Ed Trujillo 1:14:44 Yeah. Late for me, Rose not so much. It was late for me, But yeah, of course, that was a big change. That was my family. Ed Munoz 1:15:00 And then I, I think I was 42 when my oldest came along. Ed Trujillo 1:15:06 Okay, so yeah you know. It's hard to keep up. Ed Munoz 1:15:15 Yeah it is, Anything else? Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. Ed Trujillo 1:15:21 Then we got our daughter Marissa in 1999. I retired in 2017, so it's been almost about six years, Ed Munoz 1:15:36 Six years? Okay, So, about how old were you then, if you don't mind me asking when you retired? Ed Trujillo 1:15:43 Well, it was kind of a weird thing. I wanted to retire at 70, but they had this retirement program. You know, I couldn't get my Social Security until April, when I turned 70. So I had retire in January, when I was 69. That's a long story but they were trying to promote retirement and they were giving you incentives. So I had to retire at the beginning of 2017. In January but I couldn't claim Social Security until April. Ed Munoz 1:16:24 Okay. I see. Okay. All righty. Ed Trujillo 1:16:29 I was 70. When I retired in April. Ed Munoz 1:16:31 Okay. Yeah, that’s where I think I'm headed. Ed Trujillo 1:16:35 Really? Are you gonna stick around through 70? Ed Munoz 1:16:37 Yeah, I'm pretty close to that. 63. I'll be 64 this year. After you've been working 30 years. Ed Trujillo 1:16:49 That’s 6 years, the last years though are the hardest? - 21 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai Ed Munoz 1:16:53 Yeah, well, I still kind of pretty much like it. And, it's a little bit easier now too I'm not administrating anymore. The other part of it is, is that now we can work from home really easy. It's very easy. Ed Trujillo 1:17:10 Makes a big difference. Well, one thing after I retired about two or three years after that they call me back, because they needed help during the pandemic, A professor wanted to take paternity leave and he was teaching one of the courses that I always taught, Biochemical Engineering, and they couldn't find any other professor to teach it. I guess they didn't have the background, or they didn't want to or whatever. So they call me back and told me, would you be willing to teach your class again for that semester? And I said, I guess, I'm not doing anything else. Yeah, I didn't realize I would have to revise all my slides. It was all online with Zoom, so I had to tape/record all my classes and learn how to do that. Ed Munoz 1:18:07 Right! Ed Trujillo 1:18:09 So that was a lot of work but you know, it was fun. But boy, it took a lot of time preparing an online course like that. Ed Munoz 1:18:19 I'm teaching my first fully online course, this summer. Ed Trujillo 1:18:23 Oh your first, What did you do during the pandemic? Ed Munoz 1:18:26 I did hybrid? I've been doing hybrid courses, which is we meet like, once a week in class, and then I have a bunch of stuff online. I never had taught a fully online course until this summer. Ed Trujillo 1:18:40 Yeah, I had to do it fully online. Obviously because of covid. Ed Munoz 1:18:47 It was actually pretty easy because the hybrid courses that I've been teaching. I've already have like, videos, and PowerPoint lectures. Probably the biggest thing I've done this time around to get prepared is to make kind of like overview videos. So my students, you know, I don't have to answer so many emails all at once and stuff. Yeah, it's alright. This is the first time I taught in the summer in along in a long time, and I was doing that so I could help pay tuition. But my daughter decided not to go back to school this spring semester. So now. Now I use the check to pay the Quinceanera. Ed Trujillo 1:19:39 Exactly. - 22 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai Ed Munoz 1:19:41 So have you had any other challenges living here in Utah? You know, you mentioned a little bit, you personally haven't experienced, like any racial ethnic discrimination and maybe because of you know, educational background and all that. But are there any other kinds of challenges that you have had to face or not? Ed Trujillo 1:20:07 Not me personally, but as you know, raising a family here, if you're not a member of the predominant religion, that can create a bit of problems. I noticed that at the university because, you know, I was involved with trying to recruit professors to the U and that sort of thing, and it was very difficult to recruit people here because, you know, they have this image of Utah, which is partly true. They said, Well, what's it like to raise a family in this environment? It is different as you probably know, right? It’s somewhat hard on your kids. If they go to public school, which most of them do, I mean, you can go to private school, but that doesn't help. That helps a little bit. But if you go to public school, I mean, it's, as you know, they're involved with their church so much that they don't associate with kids that are not. So you're trying to raise your kids. If they can find other kids, you know, if they can find a support group, then it works out and, and that helped with our son. We were fortunate to live in a neighborhood that was kind of a mix so he grew up with our neighborhood kids who were about the same age as he was. So we would have, you know, block parties and that sort of thing. So he was fortunate that he was able to grow up in that environment. But still, you know, he says, when he went to high school, he could still see that there was a difference. You know, he would never be able to be class president, like I was Because of the environment, right? Ed Munoz 1:22:04 Yeah. Different. It's kind of contextual discrimination that a person can experience or whatever. Ed Trujillo 1:22:12 It's not overt discrimination, per se. It's just the way it is. Right? And the numbers right, if you’re gonna vote for president and you’re gonna vote for somebody that you go to Sunday school with and that sort of stuff? So that was the thing that I noticed with our daughter, it was a lot different. She had a lot more problems than our son did. Ed Munoz 1:22:49 Yeah my daughter has been up and down with their mental health, and then she graduated, right when the pandemic hit. And so she didn't get to do the graduation. It's kind of she's doing a lot better right now. School stresses her out, and I told her, you go to school when you're ready. You don't have to do it right now. Ed Trujillo 1:23:18 The pressure. Ed Munoz 1:23:19 - 23 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai Yeah, exactly. That's what I learned over the past couple, five years. Well, about five years since she's been struggling with that. I just said, just don't make it more stressful for yourself. So just you know, you'll go to school when you're ready. Well, Ed, is there anything else you want to add? It's been great talking to you. Ed Trujillo 1:23:44 Great talking to you, too. Appreciate that. Ed Munoz 1:23:48 Wait till Gayla finds out that you are from Littleton? Ed Trujillo 1:23:53 Oh, yeah. Was she there when they have that school shooting? Ed Munoz 1:23:57 Yes. Yes. She was. Yeah. Ed Trujillo 1:23:59 Wasn’t her school though was it? Ed Munoz 1:24:00 No. It was Columbine High School, I believe. She teaches elementary school. She teaches at a I think it's called Centennial School of the Arts or whatever and she is a coordinator of Arts program. It's visual and performing arts as well. So yeah, but you'll get to know her more and, and all that kind of stuff already. Ed Trujillo 1:24:28 You know, as I said, we're gonna go to the quinceanera, might see her there or see you there. Ed Munoz 1:24:34 Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, if there's nothing else you'd like to add, I, think that's it. Ed Trujillo 1:24:42 So can I get a copy of this recording? Ed Munoz 1:24:45 Sure. I'll get you the recording and here's, let me stop this. Okay. The recording and then we can chat a little bit more about. - 24 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai