Oral history interview of Jacinda Hunter, conducted by Tallie Casucci (audio and transcript)

Jacinda "JC" Hunter (b. 1978) grew up in Wenatchee, Washington, before moving the Utah. JC spent her childhood backpacking in the Cascades with her father and did track and field in high school. After graduating from high school, she started climbing at the Rock Garden in Provo, Utah, and climbing outside. JC worked as a nurse and recounts returning to climbing after several years of being pregnant and barefoot with her four children, getting the first ascent on Fantasy Island, and first female ascent on Breaking the Law. JC talks about being a female sponsored athlete and love of deep water soloing. JC currently lives in Boise, Idaho.

JACINDA "JC" HUNTER Salt Lake City, UT An interview by Tallie Casucci November 23, 2022 Rock Climbers Oral History Project 1 Tallie Casucci 00:01 Good morning. It's November 23, 2022. I'm Tallie Casucci and I'm talking with Jacinda Hunter in Salt Lake City about rock climbing. So to get started, Jacinda will you introduce yourself and tell me about where you were born and what it was like growing up? Jacinda Hunter 00:18 Awesome. I'm Jacinda Hunter. I go by JC, like the initials. I grew up in Wenatchee, Washington until I was about 10 and then moved here to Utah. When I was younger, I was really into backpacking. I grew up backpacking in the Cascades of Washington at a really young age. My dad wasn't into rock climbing or anything like that, but years later he told me a funny story. One time back when he was young, y, backpacking in the Cascades he thought he was kind of trailblazing. They’re weren’t a lot of people out there doing that. He thought he was kind of a badass, so to speak. Early one morning, up in the middle of the Cascade’s somewhere, he heard voices. He thought, "What? Who else is up here? What?". He gets out of his tent and looks across the lake. On the other side, there's a tower, and he sees people climbing this tower. He realized, "Oh, they're the real bad asses!" [laughs] It's kind of a funny story that I eventually got into rock climbing, he never did. But I started climbing when I was 18. I had a friend that was into it. I just graduated high school, and they asked, "Hey, you want to come to the gym?" It was this little tiny gym with the old Teva rubber in Provo, Utah, called the Rock Garden. That's kind of where I started, and then went outside. I learned how to clean my first route, at the top of the route with my belayer yelling instructions up and never having seen or done it before. I feel like things are a little safer now. People learn in gyms that are a little bit more structured. I was kind of just thrown into it, "Here's how you clip, go lead!" "Here's how you clean a route. Alright, I'll yell up how to do it!" I'll never forget, I was at the Chuckawalla Wall in St. George, and I thought, "Am I going to die?" I got married pretty young at 19 and had my first son within that year, right before I turned 20, when I was still 19. I took a break from climbing when I was pregnant, right at the end. I got back into it after he was born. Claimed my first 5.13 shortly after, or no was it before? Sorry, that was before he was born, and then again after he was born. But then I got pregnant again. At that point, I took a six year hiatus because I ended up having three more kids. I had four total. I couldn't really fit climbing into my life with being pregnant. I did take a break, and I was going to nursing school as well. When I was graduating from nursing school, and I had my last kid, I was just excited to get fit again, get working out. My now ex husband built a little training system wall in our basement. I started training on that and we started coordinating our schedules. We could take turns getting back into the climbing gym, bouldering and getting back into shape. Once we were back into it, there was no looking back. We just made it work with the kids, like dragging them to the crag. Their life was spent a lot outside with Chinese Stars and throwing knives and whatever else can entertain a kid that's fun in the desert. That's how I got back into it. Tallie Casucci 04:31 What was the Rock Garden like when you first started going to that gym? 1 Jacinda Hunter 04:36 Such a tight knit little group of people! I don't think the gym made very much money. You'd have your occasional BYU students or college students that would pay to climb for the day, but there was more of the group of climbers that we were hanging out with, and climbing with on a regular basis. Jeff Pedersen's little shop was connected to it. It was a pretty close group of 2 friends. Everybody would meet up Saturday morning at 8:30 at the coffee shop and we'd all go climbing together. It was a really close knit community, which was fun. When you’d meet a new climber, at a crag somewhere, some random climber from some other state, or maybe from Utah, you'd actually be interested in getting to know them, because there weren’t very many climbers. And now you pull up to the crag and "Oh, there's so many cars! There's so many people." You want to find somewhere away, but we actually used to like meeting other rock climbers and now we're like, "Oh, so many!" Tallie Casucci 05:50 Who were some of those friends that you were climbing with when you first started? Jacinda Hunter 05:55 Funny enough, my partner now, we met 20 plus years ago, he was one of my good, good climbing partners for years before my divorce and before we started dating, Aaron Bollschweiler, Andy Knight, Jim Knight, and Jeremy Brown. He was actually the owner of Rock Garden back in the day. Yvette Young, who I think is one of the people you've interviewed. Matt Nielsen. There's quite a few. There's a few that don't climb anymore at all, you know, don't live in Utah, wandered off. But yeah, just just a good group of people that we spent a lot of time with, climbed a lot with. Tallie Casucci 06:46 Where did you go climbing for your first outdoor experience? Jacinda Hunter 06:53 So funny enough, my very first outdoor experience was when I lived in Layton and I was 16. I had a friend whose dad and brother would go climbing and they took me out and they set up some 5.10 top rope and we're like, "oh, I wonder if she could climb this?" And I did. They were shocked! I mean, I top-roped it, but I didn't know what climbing was. That was the only time I really went out. I think I went out one or two more times with them, but I was in high school. I was an athlete. I was a sprinter and a hurdler. I was really into that in high school. When I graduated, I just reconnected with a friend that had gotten into it and I thought, "Oh, I've done this a couple times. So that would be fun." I met up with her and we went to Southern Utah to climb in the VRG. We were on a 5.9. I started climbing down there and then also the Sun Wall when they had the Tyrolean to cross. Did they put that back up? I don't know, to get the other side of the river? So that's where I started climbing outside. And then Chuckawalla Wall was the first time I actually tried to clean a route. And then American Fork Canyon, Rock Canyon. So just kind of all the classic spots. Tallie Casucci 08:18 What was it like getting back into climbing after having your four children? What was that process like? Jacinda Hunter 08:29 Pretty much, I started with pull ups, just doing pull ups and I got obsessed. I had one of those little hangboards, with the different levels of crimps and slopers. I got the hangboard and just started doing pull ups and adding weight to the pull ups. I also started climbing the system wall my ex-husband built in the basement. I would just go up and down, up and down, up and down, as many times as I could until I got pumped out. Once I started going back into the gym, and started fitting that back in the schedule, bouldering made sense because it was obviously the 3 quickest. I didn't have to find a partner, I could just fit it in between class or going home. It was really good because It helped to get my strength back. I was really into bouldering in the beginning, and then got back into routes. Once I got back into routes, I was just kind of like, that's my true passion. I like bouldering and I'll enjoy bouldering trips, but I love climbing routes. And now that I'm older I definitely prefer routes. I feel like every time I boulder I'm, "Oh I'm injured! Oh shoot, that hurt!" My body can't take landing on my feet, even in the gym. If I drop from the top I'm worried about back issues. I have those aches and pains now. So yeah, pretty much bouldering got me back into it. Tallie Casucci 10:09 What about route climbing is so appealing to you? Jacinda Hunter 10:15 Well, when I work a hard boulder problem, and I get it, it was a great feeling. But most of the time, it was kind of anticlimactic almost, because it just happens so fast. Like one day, you just stick the move, "Oh, I did it." But somehow doing a hard route is blood, sweat, and tears. It's your whole heart and soul, it takes so much more energy. And you may get through like the crux or the hard part and then still have, however far to go. I've fallen on the easier sections of climbs before many times just because I’m pumped. And so I feel like clipping the chains of a route, you've really had to keep your shit together. You really had to stay focused, and it just took everything I had, every ounce of energy, every ounce of focus. It all had to come together perfectly to send that route. And so at the end, at the end of a hard route, that's a good feeling. Tallie Casucci 11:21 Are there any climbs that you remember really fondly? That entire process that you're really proud of today? Jacinda Hunter 11:29 Yeah, I would say my two hardest climbs, which were Fantasy Island and Breakin’ the Law. Fantasy Island was a couple seasons, and I kept falling at the top. I fell at the very last hard move, multiple times. It was a route that no one had ever done before. It was fun to get to name it and rate it. And yeah, just kind of be the first one to show up and really give it an effort. So that was pretty cool. I think that was probably my most memorable because I spent the most time on that route. I had worked on it in the fall, and then it got really cold in the winter. I tried to go up a few times in the winter, but it was just ice. I went in the spring a bit, and then had a surgery. I came back after the surgery and did it in July, which is crazy. It’s the worst time to climb in that canyon, but I had a really good climbing partner. We'd show up at 5am when it was still pitch blackout. At 5am in the canyon it's still really really chilly. We’d have on our puffies, and we'd use our headlamps, and start warming up with our headlamps on. We would work on my route for a bit but it wasn't his project, so once I gave my route some solid burns, then we'd head over to Hell. We were done by 10 or 11am in the morning. It was awesome too, because I hated climbing being 100% of my focus. It never was. I didn't want to drag my kids to the crag all the time. That was mostly when we were out on road trips and whatnot. I wanted to get back home, because I wanted to hang out with my family and see my kids. So a 5am start was perfect. And that's actually when I sent the route. It's one of those early, early mornings in American Fork Canyon in the middle of summer. Got home by 10 or 11 and I played with my kids. Tallie Casucci 13:36 4 That's neat! Did you have other people who were trying it with you? Or was it mostly just people on support duty? Jacinda Hunter 13:46 I had some friends that were doing the route next to it, Loveboat. It's one those '80s shows. That's why I named it Fantasy Island, because that's the' 80s show that was around during the Love Boat era. I don't know if you know that? But there's this old '80s show called The Love Boat and Fantasy Island. So it's named after a television show. I had a couple of friends that were working Loveboat that were getting on it with me, working moves and stuff, but I don't think it was their primary focus by any means. Issac Caldiero is the person that introduced me to the route. I went to belay him on it, and he was working on it until he decided he was taking a trip to Europe. I asked, "Well, if you're taking off to Europe, you're gonna be gone. Do you care if I give it a go?" And he said, "Yeah, totally." So he's the one that introduced me to it, and then Issac never went back to it, at least as far as I know. Tallie Casucci 14:54 What did you really like about Fantasy Island that made you want to stick and put in the time to do it? Jacinda Hunter 15:05 I love bouldering on a rope, so to speak, and it gave me that. It was definitely the style I like too. Like in Hell cave. I like the shorter routes that are not real long, but they're real bouldery. I enjoyed that. I really liked the movement. I will say when I clipped the chains on that route, in my mind, “If this had 30 or 40 more feet of really stellar climbing, this would be amazing. A world class route. super rad." So it always kind of disappointed me when it ended. I wish it went on a little bit further. American Fork is a little chossy, and I just wanted to do the hardest thing I could do, so I was motivated. Tallie Casucci 16:00 What did you do to prepare for Fantasy Island? Jacinda Hunter 16:04 I had done quite a few other hard climbs in the canyon already. I didn't really prepare. That's the other thing people have asked me, "Well, how do you train?" Other than the series of pull ups that I started with when I was getting back into shape, I've never really trained for climbing. I would just go to the gym when I had time and I would climb. And that was it. I didn't do any other preparation. I was so busy being a mom and raising kids. I got my nursing degree and started working. Climbing was an amazing escape, like this peace. Time for myself. It was something I could do that I enjoyed that was active and fun. I joke because I hate cardio. I used to be a runner. [laughs] And now I hate doing it. Even back then I didn’t want to run. Climbing is awesome because I don't have to do cardio that much. I didn't really train, I didn't really do anything other than just climb. I climbed in the gym when I had time, and I climbed outside when I had time. I didn't really prepare for it. I just saw the route when Isaac was on it, and it looked really fun. When I tried It I thought "Oh, this was really cool." So I just made that my focus. And then funny enough, after I finished the route, I took a new job two weeks later. It was a really typical eight to five administrative job. It wasn't a nursing position at all. It made really good money and it supported my family really well, but it was the last hard thing that I did outside. I did that job for seven years. I either would have to have spent my weekends away from my kids, focusing on my own things or spending as much time as I could with my kids. So at that point I 5 started climbing in the gym. I just didn't have as much time to be outside and to go outside and focus on a project. Now my youngest is graduating high school and I'm feeling like, "Oh, this is awesome. I'm finally getting my time back." Climbing has become a focus again. I’m coming back to it. I never really left it, I think I only left it for two years. During COVID I started lifting. Now I love lifting as much as I love climbing. It's a nice soreness. When you get sore lifting, you're sore, but all of your joints, everything was supposed to move in whatever direction you were working out. It's all very good, healthy ways of moving your body. Now, I'll go climbing or I’ll go bouldering and have a hard workout and think, "oh!" When you're sore from climbing, it's because you're throwing yourself in wild directions, or catching a hold that puts you in the most awkward, unnatural positions. Soreness from climbing is way worse. I realize, "oh, I don't think my shoulder was supposed to do that" [laughs] Tallie Casucci 18:39 There's some photos of you being, I think the guidebooks called it a contortionist. [laughs] Jacinda Hunter 19:40 Yeah. Breakin’ the Law was like that. There was this high, high, high, right, drop knee. Every time I would have to hike my foot up and then drop into this really tight, tight position, I thought, "Is my knee going to explode? Am I going to get through this?". I'm on the precipice of pushing my body to some point where it's not supposed to go? Tallie Casucci 20:07 Well I think it was also the toe. Jacinda Hunter 20:12 Ohh! Tallie Casucci 20:13 In that photo your toe is by your head! Jacinda Hunter 20:17 So true. I do also have very double jointed elbows. So sometimes in photos like that, you'll see that and it's like, "What is her arm doing?" It's just just bending backwards on the undercling hyperextending. Tallie Casucci 20:33 Yeah, how did you find those positions that seem to be kind of unique to your style of climbing? Jacinda Hunter 20:41 I do like to climb with my feet in my face. I typically will hike my feet up really high. If it feels awkward in the moment, I know it's going to be where I want my foot to be when I hit the hold. Does that make sense? It feels weird now, but I know when I hit that hold, that's where I'm gonna want to be. I've always had that kind of weird style of climbing, but I still do it. I like it. I use my knees, I don't know. 6 Tallie Casucci 21:13 Tell me about Breakin’ the Law. Jacinda Hunter 21:16 Breakin’ the Law was the first 14 that I did. That was an amazing winter where my ex-husband and I were working the same job where we worked seven days on and then we had seven days off. The seven days on weeks, we swapped, so one of us will work three one will work four. So every other week, we’d take off down to St. George. We just spent the whole winter down there climbing every other week for seven days. The very first night, we went down there, we set up camp and it was so cold. I remember it was the night of the election. I got in the car and turned on the radio. I was listening and wondering "Did Obama win? Who won?" And that was it. After that, I was like, "No, we're not camping. This sucks. I can't, I can't do this." We got a hotel for the rest of the week. And then every other week, we went back to the Hampton Inn in St. George, right off of St. George Boulevard. We just lived there every other week with our kids. It was pretty fun because the staff got to know us and got to know our kids because we were there all the time. Years later, I went back and they asked, "how are you?" excited to see me because we had spent so much time in that hotel. It was a really fun period in my kids lives because I homeschool them so they didn't have to go to school. I didn’t do a very good job, and I didn’t think I was very regimented about what they were studying or how often or what they were doing. So when they started school again, the next year, I thought, "Ah, they're gonna be so far behind." We really just had a fun year, did a lot of climbing, and played in the desert. And actually, when they went back, they were miles ahead. It was crazy. In math, and their reading was great! So I don't know, maybe kids just need to spend more time outside because they were fine. They did really well. That was a good year. We spent a lot of time at the Black and Tan. I didn't go there with the intention to do that route. I'd done a bunch of the other routes, so it was that or Old World Lullaby." I got on Old World Lullaby and it just didn't inspire me as much, so I decided to work a harder route and get on Breakin’ the Law. I just worked and worked and worked on it. It was funny though, after I sent it, Mike Call and Tim Kemple came out and made a little video. Mike Call at the time had, I forget what it was called. I mean the internet was still fairly budding, right? So they had an online video thing that they did for climbing specifically. They posted it to the online site and the very next week we showed up and I swear all of Colorado was at the crag. We had been going to this crag all winter long, and nobody was ever there. Maybe one other climber, you know what I mean, just empty. And then all of a sudden, we pull up and there's just cars. It was wild. I don't know. I think a bunch of them had just come from the Red Rock Rendezvous or something but a lot of strong guys were there to get on Breakin’ the Law. I just think if a girl climbs a 14 and they're thinking "Well let's go get on that one! It must be doable!" I don't know. But it was fun. There was a lot of people at the crag after that, and then the winter was over. And we just went back to bouldering and climbing in AF [American Fork Canyon] when we got back. Tallie Casucci 25:14 Yeah, tell me about being a top level female climber. Jacinda Hunter 25:22 I wouldn't say I'm top level, I don't think I ever really was. I think I just had a unique story. You know, like, "Who is this girl with these four kids running around?" We'd set a tent up at the bottom of the crag and stick the Barbie Castle inside of the tent. Some days it was too cold, and they all just wanted to climb in the car and watch a movie. Sometimes they climbed, but I never really pushed my kids to climb. I just wanted them to do what they liked. So yeah, I 7 wouldn't say that I was ever a top climber. But it was an interesting time period. Especially then when I did Breakin’ the Law, because I do think at the time Tallie Casucci 26:09 What year? Jacinda Hunter 26:10 I'm trying to remember what year that was - '07, '09, '10? I can't remember '10, '09. 2009 maybe? Maybe 2007? I don't know, I'm too old now though. But I think I was the third woman to climb that grade in the United States, not in the world, but in the United States. I think at that moment, it appeared to be an achievable event of some kind. But it was also right as these kids that had grown up in climbing, like the Sasha DiGiulian's and Alex Johnson's of the world were breaking into the scene. They had been crushing in the comp world as kids growing up and then all of a sudden they're becoming adults and going outside. So if I was at the top, it was very short lived. Alex Puccio came on the scene very quickly after. Anything that seemed pretty cool in the moment, got shattered. Those ceilings, those glass ceilings got shattered pretty quick, but it was awesome. To see these kids just coming out and demolishing, you know, just crushing. So it was fun. Tallie Casucci 27:35 What are your thoughts on first female accents? Jacinda Hunter 27:41 Oh, that's so funny. That was a big question back then, too. Because when I did Breakin’ the Law, it was the first female ascent. And so people were like, "Do FFAs matter?" Is that still? Do people still say that stuff? I don't know. I don't feel like I'm in the scene enough to even know if that's a topic or not? Do people still put FFAs on? [Tallie nods] Personally, I still think it's cool. If you're the first female to climb something, I think that's fine to differentiate that you were the first female to climb something. Why is that a bad thing? I don't know. That's my thought on it. I don't care either way. I don't see why someone would be upset or offended by that. I don't know, our bodies are physically different from men's, we're not built the same, and I don't see anything wrong in celebrating our successes. Simple as that. But, when I did Fantasy Island, that was an FA. That was a first ascent. And there were so many, there was quite a few different, I'm not gonna say I can't remember exactly, but media, things that were posted, media outlets or whatever, in the climbing community that were saying, first female ascent. So when they read FA, they assumed it was wrong. And they thought, "Oh, they meant to put FFA." So that was interesting to kind of see on the other side of the spectrum, like, "Oh, no, it wasn't a first ascent, it was the first female ascent." And then I was like, "Well, no, it was the first ascent!" So that was interesting. And then yeah, just kind of the fallout of that I guess a little bit, not fallout, that's the wrong word. Just people's responses, or reactions to that and assuming that it was printed wrong. Like really? It was kind of funny. Tallie Casucci 29:57 For when they would change it to FFA, were you or friends reaching out to be like, "No, you got wrong"? Jacinda Hunter 30:06 8 No, it was just a couple of things. It wasn't completely, and it would just be people that would maybe say things to me to, "Oh, did you get the FFA? or was that the FA." So it wasn't a big deal. And I didn't care. I'm not gonna reach out and be like, "You printed that wrong." That's a funny thing for me, I never really was super into the scene, so to speak, like other professional climbers or what was going on in that world. I truly was caught up enough in just raising kids and doing what I could do on a day to day basis to stay consistent and climb and complete my own goals. I didn't even have a subscription to Climbing Magazine, which was super big at the time. I didn't read forums, I wasn't online, or any of that. In fact, someone made me a Facebook page at one point because they thought, "You need Facebook." I was like, "oh." I got really disenchanted with the whole professional climbing later, because that was breaking onto the scene, the whole social media thing. When I was first an ambassador for different climbing companies, they were saying, "Oh, hey, we like what you do. This is awesome. We'll support you in this way." And that was great. And then I started getting, as time went on, "we need you to post at least three whatever posts, a month." And I thought, "I don't post three a year. There's no way!" It very much became about your brand and how you represent yourself on social media and how many followers you have. And honestly, I despised social media since the get go and I could never jump on board. I just couldn't. So that was definitely a stepping off point for me. I can't chase this rat race. I don't want to. Tallie Casucci 32:21 Well, you didn't have time to. Jacinda Hunter 32:24 Yeah, it just wasn't in my wheelhouse. Tallie Casucci 32:31 What were those earlier sponsorships and partnerships? How did they get established? Jacinda Hunter 32:39 The very first one was prAna climbing clothing company. They would pay me a monthly amount and then pay for certain trips and things to go on, certain climbing trips. From there was La Sportiva. Well actually, I take that back, I guess the very first one was Five Ten. Just a very like small thing when I had my first son. When I started climbing again, prAna picked me and then La Sportiva and Maxim ropes. I went to Mammut and there was also Organic for bouldering pads. I forget. It was nice to get stuff, because obviously climbing gear is expensive and if you're getting a little bit here and there, or money to take a trip that was nice. So that helped out but I didn't take big trips. I've still never climbed in Europe. Yeah, I mean, I had to work, it definitely didn't pay the bills and I had cello lessons to pay for, and a normal life to live. Climbing was really my hobby that I loved and I was pretty decent at it. And I enjoyed doing it. Tallie Casucci 34:09 What were some of the trips that you got to go on from sponsorships? Jacinda Hunter 34:18 I would say the funniest trip was to what's it called? It's in Arizona, Clear Creek. It's this crappy little river. It's out on route 64 In the middle of nowhere, and it looks like there's nothing and then all of a sudden you drive up and there's a ravine with water in the bottom. It's not very deep. There's this thought that would go through my head like, "What if I hit a pipe or 9 something?" You know, garbage, that's down at the bottom of this. "Is there gonna be a refrigerator or random piece of trash that I'm gonna land on?" But the climb was amazing. It was just for deep water soloing over this creek. There were some cool petroglyphs and we made a little video for prAna. Before I went down, we were looking at some of the climbs and my ex-husband thought, "Oh, definitely don't do this one. And definitely don't do this one." Because they were pretty high over the water. One was 11b and 12a, but they had no fall zones. I thought, "Oh, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. Like, that's, that's crazy. I don't want to die or anything." But then as soon as I got there, I was having so much fun. My buddy asked, "you want to get on this one?" I said, "Yeah, totally!" So both the routes that I said I wouldn't get on, I did both of them. And it was awesome. I loved it. It was amazing. I got to the top of one of the climbs, and I think I almost started crying. It was this existential moment where I thought, "Oh, my gosh, what did I just do?" And it was a really, really cool experience to be out in the desert. I had to hike down because it was too far to jump even from the top. So I had to hike all the way to a ravine where I could get back down to the water, and get picked up again by the boat. I was kind of cruising around the top of this plateau, thinking "What the hell was that? What did I do?" It was a really cool moment for me, so that's probably my most memorable trip. Tallie Casucci 36:33 Then who are you with for that one? Jacinda Hunter 36:36 I was actually with Mike Call and Carrie Cooper. Carrie is also a climber with prAna. It was it was a lot of fun. Tallie Casucci 36:49 That's neat. Did you Carrie climb together before that trip? Or was it kind of just prAna organizing it? Jacinda Hunter 36:57 Yeah, like I said, I wasn't really that connected with any other climbers because I was busy. So we pretty much met and became friends on that trip together. And then we've climbed a few times after that, but she's busy too. She has kids, and she's a lot more into bouldering than she was sport climbing. So I kind of stuck to the sport climbing, and she focused on bouldering. Tallie Casucci 37:24 Deep water soloing was a good meeting ground. Jacinda Hunter 37:27 Yeah, it was a good middle ground, I guess. Tallie Casucci 37:29 Totally. That's neat. You mentioned before we started recording about having to go to events and things like that. What was that experience like? Not just the getting the free gear, but sometimes be asked, "Oh, can you go to this event?" Jacinda Hunter 38:00 10 I did some events sometimes, but not very often, to be honest. I was pretty clear with the sponsorships, "I appreciate your support and this is what I'm capable of." And it was not being their shoe demo girl. I couldn't. I was pretty upfront about what I was able to provide and that worked out fine. Yeah, it worked out fine. So I didn't have to go put on too many events. I was telling you earlier I went to one of the Red Rock Rendezvous and helped out. But anytime I did stuff like that, or even just traveled for the deep water soloing trip, it's like a whole thing to make sure everything that's going on with my kids is set. Making sure they have rides to ballet and all that stuff. So it was not that easy to just up and travel or do things. I have a really memorable trip to Rocky Mountain National Park. I was also very wary about leaving my kids with babysitters. I don't know, I'm just a protective mom. I wasn't a helicopter mom by any means, because my kids were obviously running around the desert with Chinese Stars having fun, but I didn't have a lot of family in Utah or anything. I didn't have a large resource of people I could rely on or count on or help watch the kids. So climbing was always taking turns with my ex husband. And unless we took all the kids out with us, we never really did it together which was actually fine by me. I really enjoyed the time away and just having my own space my own time alone or with a friend. Sorry, what was I trying to tell you? We can delete that! Oh, so one of the more memorable trips is a trip to Rocky Mountain National Park where Aaron, my partner now, was watching my kids. So it's pretty funny that we're together now and he still has pictures of my kids from, 18, 20 years ago where we'd all be climbing together. He's got a sketchbook with my son's drawings in it from that trip where he was watching my kids. It's pretty funny that we have this old friendship and history together, but Rocky Mountain was really fun because it was beautiful. I liked the intensity of getting up really early. We'd hike all the way up to the crag, and then I’d want to pass out at 12,000 feet or 11,000 feet. I felt like,, "Oh, I can't breathe," and then we’d climb all day and then hike back down. We did four days in a row and then jumped on the flight home. Tallie Casucci 41:03 Where you climbing at The Monastery [outside of Estes Park] or somewhere else? Jacinda Hunter 41:05 I can't remember. I don't remember the names. I was terrible that like. That's the one thing my ex-husband was good for was at least he would like read the guidebooks and know where we were going. And I was like, "oh, I don't know." Or years later I’d ask, "What was the name of that climb?" He shocked saying, "You did it!" I’d say, "I don't remember." Just never really kept track. So I'm going to be able to give you beta on probably even some of my harder climbs. It just came and went, you know. Tallie Casucci 41:42 Can you tell me about PsicoBloc [Master Series competition]? Jacinda Hunter 41:44 Oh, PsicoBloc was so fun! When that came out it was so fun. The first year it was put on it was so new. No one had really seen that. It was actually the same summer [right before PsicoBloc], when I went deep water soloing [in Arizona]. It was kind of a practice almost. It was a good way to get my head in the game with deep water soloing. That first year event was so much fun, because no one had ever seen anything like it. There was a huge crowd. It was a good time. The first year, I drank too much. Way too much! I think I was giving an interview or something after the climb and I was definitely not your stand up mom. Don't you have kids? Where are 11 they? You aren't driving them home are you? We just had such a good time. You know, people were just having a lot of fun. And it is scary. I mean, I think the wall is like 50 feet. It's always so scary to me. I feel like I know that I'm good enough to get pretty high on this, but I don't know if I'm good enough to get to the top. Every year I thought, "Oh, I'm gonna take a long fall. This is gonna be terrifying." They do it two days in a row. The first day is the prelims and you get to climb the route and then the second day is the finals. One of the years I fell real weird. I came down and landed on my back, and it knocked the wind out of me and sprained my neck (Csomething). I can’t remember. I had to get pulled out by the lifeguard and I felt like I was drowning when I got to the surface. The lifeguard looked at me, and I'm just mouthing help because I couldn't speak or breathe. I thought I was going to drown. So he jumps in, pulls me out and gives me oxygen. I went straight to the emergency room. They told me I sprained my neck and to wear a C collar and take all these drugs, and relax. But I didn’t want to miss climbing the next day. I still climbed in the finals. I just took muscle relaxants and any drugs I could take to numb the pain. Right before I was about to climb, someone was talking to me and my speech kind of slurred. They said, "Should you be climbing right now?" I said "It'll be fine. I climb better when I'm relaxed." [laughs] I did. I did okay. But I definitely don’t like competing in your standard competition. I would get so nervous and freeze up. I hated it. I did one of the comps on top of the Shiloh Inn, where they held the bouldering comp on the top of the roof. It's funny I took last place but then I was on the OR cover the next day. Because again they thought "mom with four kids climbs in this comp!" "Yeah, but I took last place!" Whatever, it's a cool story. So yeah, I didn't really like competing, but the PsicoBloc didn't feel as much like a competition. It was more of just a really good time. I think it's more entertaining too for people to watch. Climbing is boring. I can't stand watching it, honestly. I think it's pretty boring. But PsicoBloc adds that element of fear and falling and fun. I wonder, do they still have a wall up in Park City? Did you ever climb on it when they had it? Tallie Casucci 45:51 Yeah Jacinda Hunter 45:51 Did you like it? Tallie Casucci 45:52 Yeah Jacinda Hunter 45:53 I'm asking you question now! [laughs] I took my daughter up there. She thought "this is terrifying!" It definitely feels that way when you're climbing. When you look at it doesn't look too bad, and then once you're on it, and you look down, you realize "Oh, crap, this is a long ways!" Tallie Casucci 46:13 Oh, yeah. When it was open to the public, they didn't have the holds going all the way to the top. Probably for that reason! Jacinda Hunter 46:22 Probably for good reasons! Probably smart. You can sprain your neck. 12 Tallie Casucci 46:28 How many years did you complete? Jacinda Hunter 46:31 I think I did PsicoBloc four or five times, I can't remember. One year I had a sprained ankle pretty bad. I was injured, and didn't do it. I know I did it four years. I can't remember if I did it five. It was fun, though. It was definitely a good time. I like doing the PsicoBloc. I am kind of an adrenaline junkie, I guess in that sense, like to do scary things. I think that's also why I was drawn to climbing initially. Deep water soloing is a little more thrilling, a little more exciting. I do like deep water soloing. I got to do the competition in Summersville Lake in West Virginia too. That was probably one of the most fun. Now that I look back, I think that it was actually one of the most fun climbing trips I've ever been on. There was a flotilla of all these boats, and we were going to all these different areas in the lake. That was a blast! It was super fun. The lake is gorgeous, the rock is amazing, and the climbing is fantastic. Tallie Casucci 46:35 What do you love about the deep water soloing? Jacinda Hunter 47:59 I think it's the fear I could get really hurt, but I'm probably not going to die. So it's not like you're going to die. I think something really crazy would have to happen for you to die. You're going to be okay, but it could also really hurt when I hit the water. After I sprained my neck I realized "Okay, I know that I can get hurt, but it's not gonna be that bad." So it's just enough, it's just enough fear to make it fun. You're really high off the water, and it makes you focus. You have to zone in and everything else falls away. It's one of those moments where you feel a silence. This sounds so cheesy, but I feel inner peace or something. I feel completely in the moment with the rock, and climbing what I’m doing with my body. It’s like meditation. I do think climbing is like meditation in a lot of ways. Whenever you're really pumped on a route, and I think this is why I tend to like route climbing more, is because when you're super pumped, and physically your body is saying you're done, but mentally you can just zone in and focus. You might go two, three, four, or five more moves. You might get to the chains just because you're able to find that moment where you're Zen. You're just completely connected, and that's where I find the real love of climbing. It is in those moments, and it could be on an 11a or it could be on the 14 and that's why I think climbing is so universally great for people. Because regardless of what level you're at, you can get that same experience. You can have the exact same feeling, and you can do it at the same place. You can't go surfing and everybody in the water is like that. They're fighting for the best wave, right? But at the crag, you can have the 10a next to the 13. You can be hanging out with your buddies and it doesn't really matter how hard you climb. Tallie Casucci 50:13 Who have been your mentors over the years, or maybe people that you've admired and have learned from? Jacinda Hunter 50:21 I don't really have any that I can say, honestly. I know that's so terrible. I thought about that previously, when you sent me the questions, and I was like, "gosh, I really can't say that I've had a mentor, or anybody that's guided me." Honestly too, one of the things I found interesting when I got into climbing is I was always very much thinking, "Oh, that looks fun. I want to try it." And it would be something way harder than I'd ever done. And I kind of feel like the climbing 13 community at the time, with as small as it was, felt like, "Oh, you can't get on that. You haven't done this, this, this, this and this." There's that whole pyramid thinking. And not that it's bad, but there was a lot of opposition when I was trying to get on hard climbs. People literally telling me, "You shouldn't. You have no business being on that route." And it's like, "Really?" The best part is, every time that happened to me, I would send the route. I mean, that just motivated me more to try hard to do something. So I don't feel like there was a lot of support to be honest in the beginning when I was climbing. I almost had to prove myself, and then people realized, "Oh, okay, you know, I guess that's fine." I had someone tell me once when I was trying this 5.13a in American Fork Canyon. And at the time, I had only climbed 12a which was my hardest route. So 12a was my hardest redpoint. And I wanted to get on this 5.13. Tallie Casucci 52:07 Which one? Jacinda Hunter 52:11 It's over in? Oh, X. I think it's been downgraded since to 12d. At the time, it wasn't. So now I think it's like 12d in the guidebook or something. X? I think that's the one. It's in Red Corners. Tallie Casucci 52:24 Yeah! Jacinda Hunter 52:25 Okay, yeah. It's a classic. And I started working on it, and I ended up sending it the second day I got on it. Seven tries total. So pretty fast for a new climber. And this person had told me "you know, you shouldn't be on this route. What are you doing?" This person was there when I sent the route. And when I got to the top, and clipped the chains I was saying "Oh, my gosh, I'm so pumped!" That's all I could say. I kept saying "Oh my gosh, I'm so pumped." All these guys who were so strong thought, "What is she doing?" Breaking boundaries, I guess. I had never felt a pump that intense before. As my climbing partner was lowering me to the ground, this person says to me, "You want to know why you're so pumped?", I said "Why?" And he's said, "because you don't have a base." And that was their negative response to me sending the route. It was as if we don't care that you sent it, you still don't have a base, because I jumped the grades. I think I said something like, "Well, apparently I don't need one." [laughs] So I didn't really have a mentor, and there wasn't very many female climbers around, even in the social groups that I was climbing in. Like I said, I wasn't really tapped into reading all about Lynn Hill, or climbers that had come before, because I was just pretty narrowly focused in my life. Being a mom and raising kids so I just kind of did whatever I wanted to do and everybody else could "F off! If you don't like it," I do tell kids nowadays, like all these kids that are coming up in the gym world, “if you want to get on something, go get on it. Who cares? What's the worst that's going to happen? You don't send the route? You know, you don't do the problem?" I think that's changed a lot over the years too, just when I was first starting out they thought, "Oh, you're a girl and you're not, you know, you're not ready for this!" Tallie Casucci 53:51 Yeah. When you climb now do you find the community is more supportive? Jacinda Hunter 54:01 14 Yeah, I think Tallie Casucci 54:03 Or are you still getting comments? Jacinda Hunter 54:57 No, I think that's changed a lot, and honestly the climbing community is so big now, it's just so big. I think that's the shock for me is just how many people I don't know, or have never met, or how many people are at a crag. It's kind of wild to see how much it's grown. I do think that it's way more supportive, especially of the youth, and what's happening with the youth and how strong they get and how quickly they shoot up the grades. It's exciting to see how the sport has grown, and I think the hardest part is going to be access issues and making sure that we take good care of our crags and those kinds of things. Tallie Casucci 55:57 Yeah, definitely. That kind of leads me to kind one the wrap up questions, which is, what is the biggest challenge you see facing the climbing community? And it can be Intermountain West or just in general? Jacinda Hunter 56:16 Yeah, I mean, I moved away a year and a half ago from Utah. And I do miss it so much. I want to come back. I love the mountains here. Crowding though is a huge problem. And just like we were talking about with access issues and people respecting the crags. Also recognizing that nothing's ever going to change too. You know, as climbers as a community, we have to accept that maybe sometimes our area isn't going to be available for one reason or another. I mean, hopefully not, but I think as long as we do our best to respect the environment and pay close attention to those issues, so that we're not tracking all over the desert flora and just things that makes sense obviously. All the work that's been done in Joe's Valley has been amazing over the years and I think the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance has done a phenomenal job rallying people and keeping those issues forefront and creating a climbing community that's really aware of stuff like that. Other than that, I just see climbing really growing because these gyms are going up everywhere, right? You're gonna get people in cities that have no access to outside climbing now taking their vacations to go outside climbing. So we just see such an influx and a lot more traffic. I think that's really the biggest problem or will be the biggest problem is the climbing areas. I mean, I still feel like there's too much rock and not enough life, and there's way more rock out there than I'll ever have enough life to climb, but Utah is getting pretty crowded. Tallie Casucci 56:28 Yeah, what is it like now being in Boise, Idaho? Jacinda Hunter 58:37 Oh, it's funny. Boise as far as people that have moved there from California or somewhere where they think "Oh it's so amazing!" I'm gonna diss on Boise right now! [laughs] It's an awesome city. It's actually got kind of a miniature Salt Lake and it's got a really cool downtown. But as far as access they have a lot of mountain biking trails which is nice, but there's no tree coverage. It’s not like going to Park City and the beautiful Wasatch Mountains. Boise has foothills and then all the really good mountain stuff is two hours away. The Sawtooths and you 15 have McCall and you have Sun Valley but it's a drive. So I think it definitely took leaving Utah to recognize how nice we have it here, how quick the access is to great skiing, great climbing, good biking, all the outdoor things that we all like to do. I didn't fully appreciate it when I was here. I'm in Boise for I don't know how long. I love my job so that's why I moved to Boise. My job took me there and so for now that's where I'll be but hopefully I’ll make it back here at some point. Tallie Casucci 59:54 Have you been able to find other climbers up in the Boise area? Are you still just climbing with your partner? Jacinda Hunter 1:00:02 Yeah, there's a little bit more of a bouldering community in the Boise area, because route climbing access is not very good. There's a little spot right outside of Boise, that’s kind of terrible. So there's not any great route climbing in the area. There's a community of boulderers, and I found a few close friends that are really into sport climbing. There's a new gym which opened up that's got some longer 70 foot walls, which is nice. So good training, there's good setters, there's definitely a good indoor facility which I've been enjoying. I definitely don't have the outside access like I used to, and it's a very small community compared to the climbing community here is much different. But it's fine. I like it, for now. Tallie Casucci 1:01:04 How are you balancing your work, your family, climbing, and other activities? Jacinda Hunter 1:01:12 The last four years were a little bit tricky. When I divorced my ex-husband, he really didn't. Like we have a custody agreement. But basically, my two girls have spent the last four years with me. They see him maybe once every six months, maybe. So it was interesting, and my kids were getting older, but then suddenly, I didn't have a person there with them all the time. And so in a way, it kind of tied me back down, to just wanting to be home more and being around them. But that's fine. I just kind of see life as phases, and I'm super grateful that I have the time with them. And now that my youngest is graduating, I'm excited, to have a lot more freedom and flexibility in my time and schedule. I'm excited for them to be going off and starting their lives, becoming adults and moving on. It's kind of a nice time to reflect back. I don't regret anything. I don't regret taking the job after Fantasy Island and deciding that outside climbing wasn't really in my timeframe. And I don't regret having, my kids and raising my kids and even my marriage that ended in divorce. I think everything happens as a way to learn and move on and go forward in life. It's not like there's any right or wrong, it's just is what it is. I'm excited to be at a place where I actually get to come back to climbing. And because I had them so young, I still feel pretty spry. I don't feel like I'm too old, aside from the bouldering and my back issue, I still got a few good years left in me, so it's good. Tallie Casucci 1:03:31 It'll be exciting. Jacinda Hunter 1:03:32 Yeah, yeah, we'll see where it goes. 16 Tallie Casucci 1:03:35 What impact do you hope to have in the climbing community? Jacinda Hunter 1:03:39 Honestly, I would hope to just inspire women to go after what they want. And I think it's a great place for women to find great friendships, great camaraderie. I think it's a place where we can really hold each other up and have just a nice, safe haven. I love climbing with other women. Like, no matter how strong they climb, or don't climb, it's just nice to have those friendships. I think it's a great outlet for that. I think that's the good part about the gyms coming around and getting more people involved in climbing. And if I can inspire someone to try really hard and go for something, I'm happy. Tallie Casucci 1:04:37 What makes climbing with other women so special and different for you? Jacinda Hunter 1:04:44 If you have a close group of female friends, I think it's kind of indescribable. We share a kinship almost., I think women's groups, whether it's climbing or whatever it is, you're doing academics or sports, I somehow find that I get a lot of energy from other women. I hope I give that energy back. I somehow feel rejuvenated. I feel just an extreme amount of gratitude and joy when I'm with other women climbing, and that camaraderie building each other up and just being supportive. Life's hard, you know. There's challenges, whether it's school, work, money, whatever it is, it's difficult. I think surrounding yourself with people that love what you love and support you in what you do, and somehow when it's a bunch of women hanging out, there's just a good vibe. There is a good energy. I love the women's groups. I'm trying to remember the name of one of them. It's been a while, but when they put on events specifically for women, I think it's a great opportunity to meet other people and experience that if you haven't. If you don't have that, find it. Seek it out. I think it's really healthy and beneficial. It has been in my life. Tallie Casucci 1:06:37 Neat. Is there anything else that you'd like to share that we haven't had a chance to talk about? Jacinda Hunter 1:06:45 I don't think so. It's been really a pleasure speaking with you and thank you so much. Tallie Casucci 1:06:52 Thank you. 17