Oral history interview of Julia Geisler, conducted by Tallie Casucci (audio and transcript)

Julia Geisler (b. 1981) grew up in Deep Creek Lake, Maryland. She discusses an early connection to nature and outdoor activities like night skiing, camping, snowboarding, and backpacking. After graduating from Dickinson College, in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, with a degree in Environmental Science, Julia traveled, through-hiked the Appalachian Trail and John Muir Trail, taught English in Japan, and guided outdoor trips for youth in California for the Adventures Cross-country and in Utah for the Oakley School. In 2003 Julia moved to Park City, Utah, for snowboarding and found work waitressing/bar-tending and being a climbing guide for White Pine Touring under Charlie Sturgis' mentorship. In 2012, Julia became the Executive Director of the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance (SLCA) and started her own guiding business Park City Yoga Adventures. Julia talks about several SLCA accomplishments including signing a MOU with the Uinta Wasatch Cache National Forest, signing the Gate Buttress lease with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Little Cottonwood Canyon, creating the Alpenbock Loop Trail with the Forest Service and other partners at the bottom of Little Cottonwood Canyon, rerouting the Jacob's Ladder Trail to Lone Peak Cirque, collecting data and advocating for permanent pit toilets at Joe's Valley bouldering areas in Orangeville, Utah, and helping to establish the first professional anchor maintenance crew in the country.

JULIA GEISLER Salt Lake City, UT An interview by Tallie Casucci September 8, 2022 Rock Climbers Oral History Project -1- Tallie Casucci 00:01 Okay, good morning. It's September 8, 2022. I'm Tallie Casucci and I'm here talking with Julia Geisler at the Marriott Library in Salt Lake City about rock climbing and her experiences as the Executive Director of the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance. So to get started, Julia, do you mind telling me a little bit about your like childhood where you were born? What was important to you? Julia Geisler 00:27 Well, good morning Tallie. Thanks for having me. Thanks to our listeners for tuning in. My name is Julia Geisler and I am originally from Western Maryland on the border of West Virginia. But it came to Utah about 18 years ago. So I guess I'm here now. And that's I grew up in a little town called Deep Creek Lake that had a little ski resort called Wisp. So from a tourism kind of recreation, hometown, pretty rural. Tallie Casucci 00:56 Nice, how long were you in Maryland? Julia Geisler 01:00 Well, my whole life until I went to college in Central PA, Dickinson College for environmental science and then kind of traveled the world hiked the Appalachian Trail, taught English in Japan, that kind of stuff. And then, you know, the classic story landed in Utah to ski saw there was a climbing program at White Pine touring, it was like, that looks like a fun, like summer job. I don't know how to rock climb, I can carry gear. And there it starts. So I'll tell you about my climbing mentor a little later in the interview. Tallie Casucci 01:29 Okay, so what else was important to you? Sounds like getting outside? Growing up, did you do a lot of family trips together? Julia Geisler 01:38 I was super lucky because my family is really into the outdoors, really into recreation. Growing up basically, at a ski resort. My father managed the ski resort growing up. So it was like on the hill was where we spent our time. And you know, on the east coast, there's this thing called night skiing. So as a kid, you get to go there. And usually it's raining. So you're kind of in full GoreTex, but you're skiing under the lights on pretty icy slopes, you know, maybe doing NASCAR races and things like that growing up so that I was super lucky to have a family that's really active in the outdoors and had that introduction of you know, camping and mountain biking and kind of skiing at a really young age that that definitely stuck with me through my professional career. Tallie Casucci 02:20 Definitely. Appalachians are so beautiful, too. What do you remember, back then of like, who were you just going family friends? organized? Just? Julia Geisler 02:32 Yeah. So yeah, the Appalachian Mountains having hiked 2000 miles through them are quite gorgeous. They are you know, really rocky, really old feeling lots of green? And yet to, to answer your question. I -2- think I grew up mostly, you know, with the family, the friends in the outdoors. But yeah, that sense of just being in nature and connecting with nature and seeing the communities around kind of recreation centric places, engaged in those places was was definitely had an impact on me and what I wanted to do with my time. Tallie Casucci 03:07 And then for college, you did environmental science? Julia Geisler 03:10 Yep. I studied environmental sciences and undergrad at Dickinson College in Central PA. And I think, you know, I'll talk about this a little bit later. But I think the I remember the college president saying, you know, if you get anything out of going to school here, I want you to be a global citizen. And I want you to be, you know, knowledgeable about the world that you're in. If I say anything stuck with me in college was probably that. Tallie Casucci 03:34 That's a good thing. Yeah, how have you seen that education play into like what you're doing today? Julia Geisler 03:45 Sure. So I think, you know, one of the things that I try to get into people's head promote, would be kind of this idea of crag citizenship as a climber, just knowing, you know, whose land you're on what goes into that, that property being open for public access, what's happening with the trails and the anchors, and then, you know, deeper layer of the Indigenous cultures that maybe use that land still today and down that road. That's being more informed. And yeah, so you can be better connected to these places that we love to be in. Tallie Casucci 04:24 Was there a defining experience when you look back in those early years that you think still you still carry with you today that's really impactful? Julia Geisler 04:35 Yeah, just that connection with nature and knowing that that was a huge part of, you know, what makes me happy and what it seems like makes other people happy around me and when you can get out and recreate in those places, you really form that just deeper bond to that, that nature and that community that's out there. So I think that stuck with me and carries into the work for the [Salt Lake] Climbers Alliance for sure. Tallie Casucci 05:00 Yeah, definitely. So, how did you first start climbing? Julia Geisler 05:04 Alright, so back to when I landed in Park City about 18 years ago, you know, showed up with my snowboard and my suitcase didn't know anybody. I was gonna just ski for the winter and then walked into White Pine Touring, which is a you know, a guide, outfitter slash climbing shop, outdoor shop in -3- Park City, walked into White Pine Touring, and I was like, Oh, you guys have a summer rock climbing program. I'd like a summer job, I don't have to climb, I can carry ropes. It just sounds like you know, fun. And I've done other kinds of like outdoor guiding, you know, growing up on the east coast, the big thing is backpacking, and hiking is kind of the most extreme thing you can do, but at least growing up. And so I was like, I've guided before the outdoors and the person kind of directing the program. And he used to own White Pine Touring is named Charlie Sturgis. And he was like, Yeah, sure, you know, we would love to have you guide. We need more women on the team. This is 18 years ago, of guiding and he basically took me under his wing and, you know, taught me how to set up top ropes and how to guide climbing and how to belay people. And so I got it for White Pine, there's a climbing guide for oh, man, it was it was probably like, eight years ish. You know, when I first came to town and working restaurants and guiding. And then yeah, so I'd say he was one of my first climbing mentors, for sure. He probably taught me a lot of wrong ways to do things. You learn slowly as you go about, but we never had an accident. And we're still climbing today. He's about to turn 70, so... Tallie Casucci 06:36 What was maybe wrong? Julia Geisler 06:41 Oh, man, I remember being on Outside Corner. So one of the you know, the first drag climbs I lead and he was freezing on the ledge, because I'm taking forever to lead, you know, the pitch right out of the roof on. And, you know, we get to the top and he's like, Oh, I think the way down is over here. And we instead of walking off tried to rappel, and I just remember that being a rope stretcher and being at the end of the rope, and he's on the anchor, kind of like give me your hand and I'm just like, dangling, you know, terrified to get onto the onto the anchor. And at that time, you know, I didn't know about extending your rappel and having you know, the third hand, the prusik you know, the backup, so that if you let go of the rope, you aren't going to fall to your death, you know, and tying the knots in the end of the rope, which I'm sure he did. But at the time, I just remember being like, oh, this looks dangerous. It probably is. Now that I know more, it's like, oh, yeah, you should have been on the, you know, the extended backup rappel, so. Tallie Casucci 07:37 Yeah, the ropes were also kind of shorter back then, yeah? Julia Geisler 07:41 We weren't climbing on 70 meter ropes all the time. Yeah, or even 80s 50 meters was kind of, you know, sometimes you went out with, so. Tallie Casucci 07:51 That's very cool that they hired you without Julia Geisler 07:54 Any experience. [laughs] I think Charlie wanted to belay partner to be honest, if he saw somebody that was, you know, really psyched. And, you know, being able to have that mentor today, I think is harder and harder to find. So some of the work with the [Salt Lake] Climbers Alliance we do is trying to put on -4- the climbing festival, you know, as part of filling that gap in the community a little bit and introducing folks to hopefully mentors and guide outfitter services and educational people to get some skills for the outdoors. Because, you know, I had that I know what that looks like. And it takes a lot of time and you know, kind of dedication of having that climbing partner to get into the outdoors. So, yeah. Tallie Casucci 08:32 Yeah, definitely. So what type of guiding were you doing before on the east coast before you kind of move to Park City to start climbing guiding? Julia Geisler 08:41 Yes. You know, I think one of my first jobs out of college after hiking the Appalachian Trail was in California and Mill Valley, I still have a 415 area code number because I got my phone, then. But the company was called Adventures Cross Country. And I remember taking kids on like multiple week. You know, we had a passenger van of 10 kids with a trailer that we're hauling. I was barely older than they were but we're taking you know, older teens on these two week three week long, hiking, backpacking, like drive through Yosemite through Bodies Ghost Town through kind of like outdoor adventure camp for kids kind of thing, drive it through the West. So that was the start of the guiding and then I worked at the Oakley School for a year doing like therapeutic kind of outdoor basically taking the kids climbing, doing yoga and that kind of hiking and things like that. So that kind of guiding and then for White Pine. Tallie Casucci 09:38 What was it like being a woman guide at that time? Sounds like the White Pine didn't have one. Julia Geisler 09:45 Well, they might have no actually, they definitely did. I started guiding at the same time as my good friend Shuan Raskin, who now has a guide outfitter service herself up in the Unintas called Inspired Summit Adventures. So there definitely were other other women. I just think Charlie was like psyched to have a belay partner who was willing to go out and do anything, and climb anything. Yeah. Tallie Casucci 10:07 So how old were you then when you first started that? Julia Geisler 10:10 Well, if I'm 41 now and I came to town about 18 years ago, so late 20s. 20s, yeah. Tallie Casucci 10:18 So you graduated, spent time kind of traveling, hiking the Appalachian Trail, doing therapy camps, wilderness camps, basically? Julia Geisler 10:28 Teaching English in Japan, hiking the John Muir Trail. Yeah, just had the travel bug going through Central America. And then, landed in Park City for for the winter. And then yeah, met Charlie got that job guiding for White Pine, and kind of stayed stuck around. -5- Tallie Casucci 10:43 Sure. "Stay for the one ski season." Julia Geisler 10:45 Yep. And fell in love with climbing, which you can do all year round, as we all know. Tallie Casucci 10:51 That's so cool. So what drew you to climbing was it just "I need a job? And sure, I'll figure out this climbing thing?" Julia Geisler 10:58 Yeah, I just looked, you know, I took like modern dance in college and growing up and, and I think that connection of being able to move on the rock felt very much like, kind of dancing, you know, in the vertical world, or, you know, moving so being in tune with your body and that, you know, the balance and the, it was pretty comparable. And it just looked amazing and cool. I had had maybe one or two climbing experiences on the east coast. In Garrett County where I grew up, they have Garrett Community College, and they actually had an outdoor adventure program or kids got, you know, certified, and adventure sports which growing up, you know, 30 years ago, that was like, what you can get a degree in adventure sports? Now, being in the recreation field, I'm like, wow, that was pretty valid degree of like, kind of what I'm in today. Public access and sustainability and stewardship of resources that we use to recreate in that big part of our economy. So I did get to experience rock climbing a few times and kinda ,yeah, I was like, this is rad. This is something that I can definitely get into and, and then guiding for White Pine, you know, it's like setting top ropes in the Uintas does taking families, kind of the, you know, the non experienced climber for sure, for their first experience into the Uintas is and climbing up at those lakes at 10,000 feet. And just, you know, sharing and seeing what came out on the rock with the families and just having that, you know, there's no cell phone service up there. And people were very just engaged in the activity and being in that space together. That was pretty, pretty impactful and pretty cool to be part of, for a number of years to be like this is my office, sitting up here belaying people at Cliff Lake, you know, that's pretty fun. Tallie Casucci 12:40 Yeah, it sounds that your love of nature and growing up doing all the nature stuff, and then now with the dance background, it seems that climbing is like a really good fit for those body self-awareness in space. Julia Geisler 12:58 Yep, absolutely. I think so. Tallie Casucci 13:00 Because you also do a lot of yoga. Julia Geisler 13:02 -6- Yeah. Which was the same thing. It's like yeah, I think this is a Charlie ism. Charlie Sturgis is quote of like, you know, climbing is like yoga and the vertical world or, you know, so it's definitely, very mind [and] body. Tallie Casucci 13:14 Mind, body, and nature. Julia Geisler 13:16 Yeah, centric. Tallie Casucci 13:19 So what motivated you when you first started climbing? And is that the same thing that motivates you to get out climbing today? Julia Geisler 13:27 You know, I think it was I think it was going to these incredible landscapes that we have to climb all around Utah. And just I remember my first West desert trip being out in Ibex, you know, and out there on the Salt Flat and there's pretty much nobody out there about myself and my climbing partner and up drives James Garrett. He's like, in Fraziska, his wife, he's like, "Do you need a guide book?" And it's like, he's like, "I put up that route yesterday and tell me what you think of it." And I was like, "Sure, we need a guide book." And you know, he he wrote that Ibex West Desert guidebook and then we got to travel around with him and Francisca for a week going through like Marjem Canyon and the West Desert and so you know, you meet people like that out there and then you get to go to these incredible places and that was definitely yeah hooked me and then that they're right outside our backyard here with Little and Big Cottonwood and definitely the Uintas. Like, why would you want to be anywhere else? Tallie Casucci 14:23 It's why you've stayed? Julia Geisler 14:24 That's why I stayed. Tallie Casucci 14:26 Yeah, of those kind of early experiences are there some that like really stand out as like, "oh, I I'm going to do this as long as I physically able to do it." Julia Geisler 14:39 Yeah, sure. And you know, as you look back through your photos year after year, which Facebook is really good at showing you you're like, now every year I go to City of Rocks these months I every year I'm going back to the you know, Indian Creek and it just becomes part of your, you know, your cycle of your life and your, the seasons. And I think I really look forward to go into those places different times of the year. And yeah, it's just become part part of my lifestyle and what you look forward to doing. So I think yeah, the first time we went to Indian Creek and I was like, I don't think I can climb anything here, -7- nor do I have enough cams, you know, and then you go another year, another 18 years later, you're like, Okay, I know I can climb these things. And you know, every time you go back, you're finding new places and even going back to visit I like going back to the same climbs again and again, to be like, Oh, this is like an old friend. I kind of remember this or I'm still scared at this spot. Never gets any easier, so. Tallie Casucci 14:43 What was Indian Creek like 18 years ago? Julia Geisler 15:46 Well, you could you couldn't still camp down in the basin there but there are a lot less people for sure. Yeah, just a lot less people. I think more than anything. Tallie Casucci 15:56 Well, yeah, just thinking of you kind of need a crew with enough cams to do a lot of this climb. If it was just like you and like your partner, how did how did that work? Julia Geisler 16:09 That work? Yeah, having a job that a guide outfitter service definitely helps you to start to build your rack. And then, you know, I have friends that I'd be like driving through Moab. Andy Biermann has been another mentor of mine, he, you know, he has a longtime climber in his place in Moab. And I'd be like, Andy, can I pick up some cams from your garage? I need three number twos, you know, add to this, this to, you know, double rack that I have and he let us borrow stuff and then drop it back off on the way home. And so yeah, I think yours that piling it and piecing it together. Tallie Casucci 16:47 That's neat. So, are there any memorable climbs or trips that have really kind of made a significant impact on you? Julia Geisler 17:01 Yeah, yeah. I mean, Indian Creek, for sure. And just that connection with the desert landscape, and then through the years watching it change, you know, the more people now you have to wait for like two hours just to drive through Moab to get down there a lot of times because you're stuck in traffic, you know, and it's, it's just really increased. And so we probably go there a little less now that it gets busier, or you really have to be more picky with when you go and avoiding busy times and finding other crags that aren't so, so congested and busy, and, but also, it's fun to go and hang out with friends too. So be part of the crowd sometimes. Tallie Casucci 17:38 Sometimes you have to just change your mindset. Julia Geisler 17:41 Change your mindset, yes. And I think every year you know, we started going to City Rocks really early on and every year it gets a little harder to find camping and, and that kind of stuff. But then you also see -8- the town you know, embracing embracing recreation and camping and seeing more of those private landowners start to offer camping on their land that used to just be grazing cattle. So it's, it's kind of cool to see that transition in the towns to. You have to plan it out a little bit more probably. Tallie Casucci 18:10 Those campsites are booked all season. Julia Geisler 18:13 Absolutely. Tallie Casucci 18:13 Even in the heat of the summer. Julia Geisler 18:16 Yeah, and sometimes people don't show up which there's got to be a better better system out there for that. Tallie Casucci 18:21 Yeah, what makes City of Rocks so special to you? Julia Geisler 18:25 Well, I think the climbing obviously I can you know, going back to those old friends I think I could climb Wheat Thin and Rye Crisp every time I go there and never be sad about I just love them you know, and just man that landscape up there is so gorgeous, the light the community. I mean, he doesn't love the pizza and the hotspring as part of you know, going to visit that area but going out there and camping and just being in that that that landscape is pretty gorgeous and like I don't know, it's like time off. You know, soul, soul replenishment Tallie Casucci 18:59 Definitely, it's such a playground. An adult playground totally up there too. The first time I saw it, I was blown away. Julia Geisler 19:07 Totally. Yeah, it's very striking. Tallie Casucci 19:10 How about Ibex? Julia Geisler 19:14 Yeah, that that pretty much blew my mind to like oh, you can just be out here in the middle of nowhere. And there are these crags and still adventure to be had for sure. Especially in the desert in the West Desert. Yeah. And then the Uintas just felt like home now you know it's like right out the back door from Park City. So going up there for a full day there's just yeah, very replenishing for the soul. -9- Tallie Casucci 19:38 And it feels nice up there. Julia Geisler 19:40 Yes the temps for sure. Yeah. Tallie Casucci 19:43 So you mentioned one of your mentors, who have been other mentors that throughout your climbing? Julia Geisler 19:50 Climbing or just in climbing in general? Tallie Casucci 19:52 Climbing and then maybe also with Climbers Alliance. You can talk about Climbers Alliance next. Julia Geisler 19:57 Yeah. Man, all those people I met when I first started climbing, I think were definitely mentors. And I think we can all think of like the first couple of partners you had and you know Kim Hall, Jewell Lund, I remember the first time I went to Lone Peak Cirque was with those two girls and just being like, not knowing at all what I was getting into, I probably mentioned never walked on snow using crampons, you know? Like, am I just gonna, you know, sink straight through, how deep is this? I think that was the first time I used a wag bag was in on Lone Peak Cirque, not really understanding that you don't just poop on the ground and pick it up with the bag, like a doggy bag. That doesn't work, you have to poop into the bag things like that, that were like, Oh, this is how you do this. You know, this is how you camp up here in this environment and, and getting on those climbs definitely seem like a big adventure to me, learning, you know, systems of how people, everybody does something different, you know, especially when you're multi pitch climb with them. So that that was definitely impactful. And just that sense of like friendship and adventure in the outdoors. Probably many of those after that. Tallie Casucci 21:10 Yeah, so those two for sure. Julia Geisler 21:12 Those two James Gibb, Charlie Sturgis. More recently, Ted Wilson, I've gotten to meet and hang out with him and hear more about the stories of you know, climbing in the 60s and 70s around Salt Lake. So that's been pretty impactful. To me and that, yeah, he's still interested in the climbing community. Even not climbing and yeah, yeah, definitely being in his 80s. Tallie Casucci 21:37 Yeah, good to reflect back. Julia Geisler 21:39 I think, you know, climbing is a big part of my, my relationship as well with my partner, Blake Summers, you know, and it's just a really great time to be able to connect and do something that you both love, - 10 - and I can't imagine not being with a climber. It'd be hard. Because you'd be like, that's what you want to go and do. And it takes a lot of time. Tallie Casucci 22:01 Yeah, it's nice to have an automatic partner. Julia Geisler 22:03 Yeah, in crime. Tallie Casucci 22:04 And you do more than just climbing? Julia Geisler 22:06 Climbing backcountry, splitboarding, and skiing and mountain biking. So I'm very fortunate to have had a partnership to I think but keeping some friends in the mix too. You can't just rely on that one person sometimes your relationship getting get on the way on rock so you want to have those other partners to go out and do stuff with. Tallie Casucci 22:27 Yeah, what do you mean by that? Julia Geisler 22:29 No, you know, if you're angry at each other it's not a good time to go climbing on a multipitch adventure day. It'll it's probably going to come out and probably my my hangar you know, comes out a little bit more with with Blake than it does with other friends. I've reached the point. I need a snack now. I can, I can usually handle myself a little bit better with friends. Tallie Casucci 22:56 Yeah, you can show all sides to your partner. Julia Geisler 22:59 Yes. Tallie Casucci 23:01 And you know they'll still love you. Julia Geisler 23:02 Yes. Just probably not the best sometimes. But it's also the most solid person I climb with and trust, you know, with my life and know like kinda of almost guess what they're gonna do, you know, in a situation which happens and you're like, I wonder what's happening up there. You know, he's out of sight. Should I start climbing? You know what's going on? You know? So you're gonna learn each other's ways in the mountains. Tallie Casucci 23:28 - 11 - So when did you get together with Blake, how long have you been partners? Julia Geisler 23:34 Since I moved to Park City? Well, my first jobs was bartending on Main Street in Park City. I just walked in to get a restaurant job. And the manager at the time was like, Have you ever bartended and I was like, No, but I can probably learn. You know, I've been working in restaurants my whole life. And she introduced me to Blake. And Blake's like, I'll teach you how to bartend I didn't know the difference between like whiskey and Scotch gin and vodka. And I was very confused. At first I quickly learned and that was a good time for bartending and Park City at that time, people paid cash. Sundance was huge. Kind of a different different scene. And just really fun in your 20s to be up there. Guiding and bartending, guiding and bartending. Yeah. I don't like anybody to stay in a ski town. Tallie Casucci 24:19 Yeah. What was the have you seen kind of a change in Park City since you've moved here? I'm trying to think, was that pre-Olympics right at the start? Julia Geisler 24:32 It was after the Olympics for sure. I mean, definitely been a change. I've changed, you know, late 20s to early 40s is definitely you know, you don't want to be bartending anymore. And hanging out in that kind of the setting. But man development is just rampant up where I am and I live at the Mayflower exit there, the Jordanelle and it's just constant development of, you know, ski resort is going in there and just the housing. It's just popping up everywhere. It's pretty crazy to see it, the traffic has definitely increased because of that. I worry about water. That's my number one. Water and wildfires. We'll get to that probably the doom and gloom of the climate crisis. Tallie Casucci 25:14 Alright. So let's maybe switch gears. So let's talk about the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance. Maybe, how did you first get involved? Julia Geisler 25:25 So a decade ago, I'm down here climbing and stuff in at IME with Charlie Sturgis. And we are at IME and there's Shingo, and he's saying, Hey, Charlie. Salt Lake Climbers Alliance is looking for an Executive Director. Are you interested in doing this? Like, I know you have nonprofit experience, because Charlie had just started directing Mountain Trails Foundation, which is a nonprofit up in Park City. And Charlie is like, No, I don't have time I'm directing, you know, Mountain Trails. And he's like, Julia, you should try. You should apply for this. Because, like, I don't know what the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance is, or anything about climbing advocacy and stewardship work, like, but okay. I applied and I, you know, it wasn't really a paid. I mean, it was kind of paid. But the money wasn't in the bank to pay somebody it was, it was a very on bare bones position, I would say. And, supposedly, part time for an Executive Director is never really part time for an Executive Director, but jumped in. My dad was like, are you sure you want to do this? It's gonna be a lot of work. But applied, and yeah, and became their first paid employee, basically, Executive Director of the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance, and I think the funding for that originally came from like, you know, five outdoor companies, outdoor industry companies, you know, the Front and Momentum and Black Diamond, and Liberty Mountain, Petzl, kind - 12 - of all pitching in saying, you know, yeah, this is needed Backcountry.com, probably at that time to have have somebody paid because the Climbers Alliance had been around since 2002. So it was all volunteer, and I think things are ramping up with climbing becoming more popular and more people getting out into the outdoors. Tallie Casucci 27:13 So what's the goal for Salt Lake Climbers? What's the vision for the group? Julia Geisler 27:19 I think the vision is that, you know, climbers will continue to have access, meaning they can go out and climb on public lands and private lands, hopefully, if we're doing our job well. And also, you know, that they're, they're using areas that are sustainable and set up for them to go and climb there. And whether that's there's adequate parking, or restrooms or trails to get there are fixed anchors that are sustainable. So I think the future is that climbers will have access to sustainable climbing areas. Tallie Casucci 27:53 So as the Executive Director, what was your role like when you first started versus now? Julia Geisler 28:04 It's definitely grown. I think when I first started, the volunteers were doing an amazing job that had started this organization. And I think we have those documents in the Marriott Library Archives. Those first board members were, but you know, folks like Merrill Bitter, who just passed and Cynthia and Steve Levinthal and Steve Downes, and there's there's a whole list of folks that had started the Climbers Alliance, they had been doing an amazing job at doing like adopt-a-crags and cleanups and some trail work at climbing areas. We originally formed because Storm Mountain picnic area, was trying to charge climbers to walk through there to go climbing at Storm Mountain. So the Forest Service was like, hey, you guys need an advocacy groups that we can understand, you know, climbers needs and interests in the canyon. And so that was one of our first access, I think issues was dealing with how do we access the public lands at Storm Mountain to climb on without paying the camp fee to go through there? You know, so now you can park on the road and walk in there for free and climb was one of the first things that the Climbers Alliance worked on before my time, but that's why it started and then since then, I think it's those kinds of things that we've been working consistently on. Adopt-a-crags have turned into more larger infrastructure, kind of stewardship projects and advocacy and access has turned into more larger relationships with land agencies and private entities like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Tallie Casucci 29:37 So who were your initial mentors? When you started the ED position, because you said you had no experience in the nonprofit? Julia Geisler 29:45 Absolutely. And I think some of those folks are still mentoring me to this day. You know, Jonathan Knight, huge, Alan Sanderson has, you know, still with us today, Cynthia Levinthal was on the board at the time. are a couple of the, Paul Tusting, just every board member that has come along. And those - 13 - early days were really, really huge mentors, Mason Baker, Rick Vance, and today and today's board and you just get to meet really amazing, passionate, knowledgeable people about about climbing and about the issues surrounding climbing. So they've all been huge mentors. Tallie Casucci 30:25 What are some of the things that you always go back to them for help on? Julia Geisler 30:31 Where things are. Directionally challenged, for sure. I mean, Jonathan Knight, I can't tell you how many times we've bush-crashed around through the Little Cottonwood Canyon, you know, him showing me different crags, especially when we were looking at doing the Alpenbock Loop and the Gate Buttress property, just people that know the resource, the climbing resource better than I ever could that have spent a ton of time down there. Yeah. Tallie Casucci 30:58 So what are maybe a few accomplishments in the past 10 years that you're most proud of for SLCA? Julia Geisler 31:08 I think one of the biggest things I thought at the start, and you know, it still stands for a relationship today was kind of signing a formal memorandum of understanding with the Forest Service, because the Forest Service does have, you know, the land ownership of the majority of the property where we climb here in the Wasatch Front. And I thought that was a really big event. You know, we have a fundraiser in June at the BD parking lot, the Forest Supervisor Dave Whittekiend was there and you know, some board members are like, are gonna sign this document, I think Peter Metcalf was there. And we kind of like, we're like, climbers are gonna really care about this. We signed this document kind of make the announcement to the parking lot, nobody's really paying attention. And it's kind of like, oh, well, that felt like a big deal. Probably just to, you know, this small group of people that really understand what this thing is. But I think in the greater context, that was, that was a great start to partnership that then allowed for us to do, what I like to say is like climbing infrastructure projects, these larger, hopefully impactful to keep the landscapes as sustainable as we can for our use and limit our impacts these projects like the Alpenbock Loop, and the Gate Buttress project, and Jacob's Ladder trail that we're still working on almost there. So those three, I think, really standout as big wins and projects for the climbers lands that are built upon. I think that MOU with the Forest Service and then later, signing the lease with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that we could climb on their property with legitimacy. And it wasn't this elephant in the room of "Oh, what if the church wants to close the Gate Buttress?" You know, that's 140 acres of the best climbing in lower Little Cottonwood let's not knock on their door kind of feeling because they might say no. But having something you know, more formalized allowed us then to, to do work and to steward, steward that property and advocate for it to to be open for climbers to use. Tallie Casucci 33:04 Yeah, so tell me about that process for the Gate Buttress. Let's start with that one. Because you had to actually approach the Church and talk about the elephant. How did that all come about? - 14 - Julia Geisler 33:17 You know, and I wasn't the first person in the climbing community to approach the church, you know, the Gate Buttress was shut down for quarrying, kind of during Ted Wilson's reign, in that that time as Mayor. And so and many of our first board members had been through that of having it shut down for for quarrying for the granite that the church did. So there had been connections in the past and, but when I came on, it was, it was kind of like, let's, let's try to have some kind of mutual beneficial arrangement with them. So that, you know, we were helping them with security of their property and security of the vaults and keeping climbers away from the vaults by doing trails that kind of directs them away from the vault and accessing that and helping, you know, just kind of keep an eye on stewardship of that property, as opposed to just all no holds bar and no communication and, and kind of run ins that would happen with people walking up the vault road and things like that. So I think when we came to the table, it was like, you know, what, what can we help you with, with, with, you know, managing the general public on your property so that you'll, you'll let us continue to climb here. We're very appreciative that we can climb here it's got deep roots in our history, and having Mason Baker and and Ted Wilson, Allen Sanderson you know, these players at the table really helped, especially Ted in the room, give us some legitimacy with with the Church to say oh, the Climbers Alliance is a legitimate group. We also had the Alpenbock Loop project kind of going and under our belts on the Forest Service property down canyon to show like, look, we we do not we're doing we can you know, you can be responsible group here. Tallie Casucci 35:05 So the Alpenbock and the Gate almost happening simultaneously then or did Alpenbock Loop start first? Julia Geisler 35:14 Alpenbock was first and then and then the Gate Buttress came next. The planning for it happens kind of at the same time and the advocacy work that happens, happened at the same time. Tallie Casucci 35:25 So, what's the, tell me about Alpenbock Loop? Julia Geisler 35:30 Yeah. So, yeah that name, in particular comes back to and I'm so excited that this is kept in the Marriott Library records that, you know, the Alpenbock Loop was this climbing club that existed, you could probably speak to this more at the University of Utah and you know, the 70s, 60s, 70s. And there were some of our first essentialist in the canyon and in Little Cottonwood, and they started, you know, keeping record of what they were climbing and, and so some of those climbs in lower Little Cottonwood there had been documented by by those first ascensionsits that were in that club. So we named the loop, the Alpenbock Loop after that club and those those folks. I think when they started climbing, nobody was climbing. It was like five people up there. And now, you know, it's it's thousands, from our trail counters that we have up there that we're clocking not only climbers, but hikers are also now able to use this loop. And the the impetus behind the loop was that, you know, we established this loop, we there were many partners involved in this project, not just the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance, but established this loop and then off of the loop our spurs to the climbing access areas. And that's why - 15 - you'll see you know, this way the Crescent Crack or that way to the Egg or this way to the Coffin, as spurs off of the main hiking loop and kind of interconnected all these climbing areas, back to the central location, the parking lot. The Little Cottonwood park and ride and then later where the Grit Mill used to be, which is a turkey grit stone factory that was really derelict and an eyesore partnered with mostly Snowbird and the resorts on getting that thing out of there and the Forest Service, removing that that derelict building called the Grit Mill, and now there's a parking lot there that that Alpenbock Loop trail connects to and connects bouldering to and so that infrastructure project of those trails, tons of rock work tons of volunteer hours, hundreds, you know, lots of money that was raised. And then and then we moved on to the Gate Buttress after we had that project pretty much done. Tallie Casucci 37:44 So for the loop, how did you get funds and resources and know how to do all that work? Julia Geisler 37:52 Trial and error. Having that relationship with the Forest Service in the beginning was huge, because you know, you have to go through the National Environmental Protection Act process of anytime you're going to build anything on Forest Service property land, you have to go through to make sure that your project is for the public. So it had to be something that is hiking and climbing and snowshoeing and can't just be climbing specific. We learned that kind of early on and then kind of upping our professionalism with with the actual work of going from fully volunteers to starting to hire professional trail builders, which really makes a big difference in the quality of work and the longevity of the work. And still, you know, using volunteers to get the work done, there's a lot of rock that was carried around out there to to mapping where climbers are going so that they they use the loop and use the things that you're you know, the trails in the staging areas that you're working so hard to build. So yeah, the general education of the public. So where did funds come from has always been pretty diverse pool of events that we have. But really largely grants from the state of Utah, you know, the Utah Office of Outdoor Recreation, which is now the Division of Outdoor Recreation, you know, kind of got its own division. They're big enough now. The recreational trails program grant which comes from like federal gas and oil tax money to I think it's oil I know it's gas tax for sure. And then yeah, other other partners that have been at the table, Wasatch Legacy Project which was before Mountain Accord before Central Wasatch Commission helped to fund this thing, you know, there and then and then partners like other nonprofits that came to the table like Trails Utah and Cottonwood Canyons Foundation and Access Fund, there were a lot of folks involved. We were I think spearheading, you know, what the vision was and where the trail would go and kind of the name and all that stuff and, but it was definitely a communal effort. Tallie Casucci 39:56 Yeah, I know you've spent some volunteer days moving the big rocks. Can you describe how hard that is? Julia Geisler 40:06 Yeah well, I don't do it as much anymore because now we are hiring more professional trail crews because it is like CrossFit with a purpose of building something. And if you don't do that work every day it is it is really labor intensive. And you can honestly, you know, you just have to be really careful doing - 16 - it because you're not, that's not your day job, you know, you're not doing you're not building trails every day. So I was definitely sore every time we had volunteer work. And I was always amazed trail crews can do that work 40 hours a week, you know, consistently. Like the trail crew, we have a up at Jacob's Ladder right now building to Lone Peak Circ is a professional trail crew and they are up there, you know, eight days on kind of thing camping, and then a couple days off, and then back at it. And it's it's definitely labor intensive, but it's pretty rewarding also to go back, you know, years later and be like, I think I helped build this stair, it took me all day to move and set that rock with a group of people. I remember being in the spot, and it's still there. And you know, look the vegetation is growing back around it. And you can see the result of what you did. Hopefully helping, you know, these landscapes replenish and and be more sustainable for for our use. Tallie Casucci 41:19 Yeah, no, definitely. And that hillsides kind of steep. Julia Geisler 41:23 Kind of steep. I did not do the brunt of the work building those trails. I was doing most of the admin work behind the scenes. There are so many people involved. Tallie Casucci 41:34 Yeah. How many volunteers do you think contributed to? Julia Geisler 41:37 Hundreds. Hundreds. Yes. For sure. Tallie Casucci 41:42 That's awesome. So Jacob's Ladder is the current kind of big accomplishment. Tell me about that. Julia Geisler 41:49 And it's not done yet. But we are close. There is a reason why nobody tried to fix this trail because it is way up there. And so where it is it's located on the approach to Lone Peak Cirque and kind of outside of Draper. And you go from this peak view trailhead, and Draper which is somewhat new that Draper city put in which is great because it has bathrooms and parking and restrooms, you know, kind of trail connectivity into the Draper city trails. This upper Jacob's Ladder is, is through the Draper city trails about three miles in is where we started doing this reroute. And this reroute is of about a mile and a half of a six to 10 foot eroded gully that just went straight up because climbers would just be like, I want to get to the Cirque, go, straight up. And over the years since the 60s, so many other people have gone up there climbers, hikers, horse packers like and trail got really bad because it was never really set to, you know, a sustainable switch backed alignment. And so we were like, alright, this is the worst trail in the Wasatch, we're gonna fix this thing and went through the environmental, you know, process with the Forest Service, it is on Forest Service property on the Salt Lake Ranger District, that took a lot of time because you have to, you know, map it and show the need for this trail to get replaced. And then they have to go through the process of making sure there's no invasive or, you know, sensitive plant or animal species in the area, so you can reroute the trail. So we did all that. Lindsay Anderson has been at this for probably five years with me, if not longer designing where that trail is gonna go. Going - 17 - through the NEPA process, she now works for the Forest Service, she used to work with us and the Access Fund building trails. She's also been a huge mentor in this space of trail work, I learned a ton from her of what is sustainable, what isn't what grade. So you get all that planning done, find the funding, you know, this trail is costing us about $200,000. So that's quite a bit of money that you have to source mostly from, you know, Division of Outdoor Rec and in other sources and other donors out there. And then hire the professional trail crew to go out there and start building and we did this one, pretty much with professional trail crew and not not volunteers just because it takes at least an hour plus just to hike to the base. Now probably two hours because they've worked up the mountain just to get to the start of the project. So volunteer management in also hiring a crew that's a professional and this is what they do day in and day out was a little hard to manage. So they've been moving along and building for about maybe 2000 feet from the end of the trail where it reaches the First Hamongong and then you go into the into the Cirque and it's gone from 1.5 miles to about three miles, but from a 35% grade average to about 18 ish percent grades you can imagine the experience is going to be a lot more a lot less brutal, are going up there with heavy climbing packs and most people spend the night up there and runners are using it. I see a lot of older older folks using because the views are incredible. then it's just, yeah, a better sustainable access to the Cirque people are gonna go to the Cirque regardless of what trail they're walking on. So we want to try our best to, to protect the landscape that it's in and also just provide a better experience for going up there. Search and rescue included. Tallie Casucci 45:17 So it sounds that Forest Service's obviously been a huge partner in all three or two of the projects. How do you kind of build relationships with the Forest Service, all these other partners, whether those partners are actually donating time or financials? How do you do all of that? Julia Geisler 45:40 It's a lot of yeah, just checking in communication. For the Jacob's Ladder project, for instance, you know, we have a weekly call with the Forest Service and the trail contractor that we're checking in, it's constant communication, you deal with a lot of things that come up during projects like wildfires, or like last year there, tons of bees, because of the drought or just whatever, it's going to be snow, heat. Everything changes weekly. So that constant communication is really important, I think, to see these projects through. And then, you know, I think Brady Robinson that used to direct the Access Fund was definitely a, you know, somebody I looked up to in this in this job. And I remember him saying, you know, celebrate your successes. So making sure that we're making, you know, videos and, and promoting the work that we do to the broader community to continue to, to get buy in for for this kind of work for stewardship work. Tallie Casucci 46:35 So a lot of the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance work has mostly been kind of the Parleys Canyon through American Fork, but I know you've also done work in Joe's Valley, which is in Emery County. Can you kind of explain why the reasoning. And then also, what's some I know, there's some now legitimate... Julia Geisler 47:03 Organizations up there? Yeah. Yeah, and I guess I should have mentioned Joe's Valley as being one of the successes of the Climbers Alliance, because I do think it is a success story. And that even predated - 18 - Alpenbock Loop kind of, kind of happening at the same time with planning. But when I first came on board, to direct the Climbers Alliance, we were paying to put these port-a-pots at Joe's Valley, like two port-a-pots, just you know, we hire a wastewater collection company and put these port-a-pots there. And they, you know, at first, they were like 500 bucks a year. And then there are 1000. And then there were 3500. And I'm like, Whoa, what is going on with these port-a-pots. And we started to seeing, you know, so many more people going to Joe's and tracking it through human waste, basically. We knew there is no human waste receptacle out there at the time for motors, and it's the Emory county culinary watershed. We knew, you know, people were like that there's toilet paper everywhere, you know, gotta have these, these toilets. There's so many fundraisers were like raising money for those porta potties at the beginning. And then we, we took that to, to Emory County, and, you know, the town of Castledale on the county commissioners, the Access Fund, and, you know, he said, look like, there's kind of a need for a pit toilet out here. Can you guys put this in, and it's BLM and Forest Service. So we came to the table, and they were kinda like, ya know, we have so many other places that need need facilities and so much on our docket, we're not interested. But there was one BLM employee at the time Matt Blocker, I think it was who it was, I could be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure who said, you know, hey, on the side, to us, you know, if you guys really show the need for this, I think we could, you know, get behind it. So do a needs assessment, you know, and we had done this in small ways with the Adopt-a-crags in the past and kind of learn this from, you know, a little bit from the Access Fund, and it's kind of what goes into the NEPA process if you have to show the need, and some like, recommendations for how to manage this property, and before the forest will look at it and see it as a priority, or the BLM the agency. So we we basically conducted a needs assessment that was we hired professionals, Jeff Porucznik, Jonathan Knight, I think Justin Woods to write this and it was done at a level that was just like very high level, extensive mapping and tracking of conditions and showing all the social trails and showing the impacts from fire rings and human waste and just a really good picture of what was going on on the ground and how climbers use the ground and then made a recommendation to the land agencies of like, here's where we think trails should go, here's everything parking should go. Restrooms, got a coalition together, presented it to them again, and I think they were pretty blown away, like the level of professionalism and data in this needs assessment that we provided them and it It helped do a lot of the work for them that they would have had to do in the NEPA process. So they were able to use a lot of our data in the NEPA process to then come to the table as the land agencies and now there are pit toilets and now there are trails and other entities have started to pick up that work out there because it is pretty far from Salt Lake City in terms of the Access Fund and and also now the Joe's Valley Festival and the coalition that has formed up there so it's gotten picked up and now the Climbers Alliance is no longer pays for pit the portable toilet. But that was that was a great success story. And now we have locals more on you know, eyes on on the ground. Tallie Casucci 50:39 Yeah, so now there's three pit toilets. Julia Geisler 50:44 Oh, that's right. Tallie Casucci 50:44 - 19 - Yeah, just because there's the one at New Joe's and then Left Fork and Right Fork, and an actual campground. Julia Geisler 50:52 Yep. And, you know, the Joe's Valley Festival is definitely is a model for how to have recreation in a town and in how the town bought in and you know, there's friendly relations there. Things like that could happen more out at like Maple or, you know, Ibex in places. So I think that's a model for for other areas that they've started up there. Tallie Casucci 51:16 Has you done anything in Maple [Canyon] or Ibex for the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance? Julia Geisler 51:20 We've worked in Maple. Yeah, so kind of our geographic scope right now, at least for the next five years is, you know, the Uintas like the Mirror Lake Highway into Parleys. American Fork, well, Ferguson, Big, Little, American Fork, Maple has kind of been our brunt of the work. And there's more than enough, a lot of focus has gone into Little and Big. Mostly a little bit the trail work. But also up in the Unitas, you know, Ruth Lake is a big project we've worked on for years up there. And then the anchor maintenance, has it spans all that. So we've definitely done anchor maintenance work and Maple and some trail work and Maple. Tallie Casucci 51:21 Yeah, tell me about anchor maintenance. Julia Geisler 52:06 Rebolting and anchor maintenance. Yes. So this has been done. Since before my time, you know, climbers have been replacing bolts on a volunteer basis through the Climber's Alliance. And you know, even before that, anyway, we had a very strong and robust and knowledgeable volunteer group called WARI - Wasatch Anchor Replacement Initiative that we started within the Alliance. And for years, you know, going out replacing replacing bolts on a volunteer with the Climbers Alliance would fund, you know, the, the hardware. And then eventually the the we wanted it to be more recognized as stewardship that we were doing on Forest Service property, kind of like the trail work, you know, never really went through NEPA climbing routes or just put up. And now we're in this position of okay, how do we, how do we maintain this? How do we steward this is a public resource now it needs maintained, just like trails do? How do we do that in a legitimate way? And also, maybe get some help from the land agencies to do this work? So how do we make this legitimate? And so we, we hired the nation's first professional, anchor maintenance crew, meaning they're paid employees did work at height, best practices, to keep the worker safe, and, you know, really got insurance and went deep into that in order to make it a more legitimate activity. So we can pay people to do this work as professionals. And so now we have a crew. That's out doing anchor maintenance work, and a field coordinator. And it's still a really big task. Because there's 1000s of bolts, there's wilderness issues. Yeah, it's tracking where to where to replace bolts, which ones need replaced and the ethics of different areas and yeah, paying for it all. But it's fun to see a job that's been created, you know, in this space, because I think you'll see it more and more across the country. - 20 - Tallie Casucci 54:04 So there was the first professional, paid professional crew of people. Julia Geisler 54:10 Yeah, but people are doing it, you know, volunteer adhoc, but other local climbing organizations for sure. So we're hoping that at least you know, we we hired, Jesse Williams is another influential person for sure in the Climbers Alliance, for which we hired him in order to write these like basically manuals that kind of like the Climbing Wall Association established with best practices for, for work in height and for quality control, hired him to write these manuals so that we had something to like train people with and be like, this is the work and this is how we're keeping our workers safe. And we're hoping that those kinds of handbooks will be used by other coalition's across the country, whether it's volunteer or not just just to keep the worker safe and to make sure that we're, we're doing quality work so that there's longevity to this and one accident over here doesn't impact all of us trying to do this work. And I think we've seen this with trail work. But the more legitimate and professional you can be in this space, the more the land agency will will partner with you on it, which we've seen with the infrastructure, the trails. So now we have basically a special use permit to allow for anchor maintenance on non wilderness areas in the winter, Wasatch cache. Tallie Casucci 55:22 What type of ethical hurdles have you run up against with kind of the rebolting? Any ways you've tried to skirt those historical dilemmas? Julia Geisler 55:38 Definitely, I think it was smart to establish the mission of anchor maintenance program as we are replacing already established routes in the same fashion that they went up. So pretty much hole for hole. Where that starts to get a little bit tricky is maybe that route was not engineered, the best in the first place. And it was an 18 year old out with a drill that's never put up a route and forevermore, this route is going to be engineered this way. And it could have really bad ground fault. The first of all, so that's a challenge that trying to work with first acsensionists to be like, should we re engineer this? Should we add a bolt? What do you think trying to do that for every route is not really reasonable, but trying to keep the integrity of these historical routes at the same time. Like looking to the future of the masses using these routes that maybe somebody never thought would be climbed again and are being climbed is is an interesting space to work in. And then I think also the the pitons, in the canyons are people love the pitons, they love it's like historical, you know, it's really cool when you come up to a pitons and get to clip it and know that somebody put that into long ago. But at the same time, those pitons were never intended to be clipped as bolts, they're, you know, for the first person that use them. And then they're not meant to be fixed protection. And so I think we've been using them across the Wasatch as such. And there's a few pretty contentious dangerous ones out there that for the most part, we've tried to remove a piton and if you can place gear, not put a bolt in, but if you can place gear then don't put a bolt in kind of thing. But there's places like like Perhaps at that climb that five seven that traverses across and there's a piton, like, what do you do with that one that you know, or? Oh, what's it called? Anyway? There's there's other areas like that the Coffin has a piton right off the bat. And can you get gear in there? Can you not? Is this a 5.7 climb? Is that piton going to rip, because somebody's - 21 - gonna take a fall on it and swing and hit the deck? So that's kind of contentious. Yeah. The other part is probably I think what people would call comfort anchors, have you will but you know, especially on like, the West Face. School Room, like trying to get off the School Room and putting anchors for people to rappel that aren't on route that have not traditionally been there. That's kind of coming up of like, how are people moving on these routes to get through, you know, you go to Red Rocks, and people are always rappelling through you. And so they started to put more descent routes in. And that's kind of an ethical thing of like, what do we want to do here? Permadraws, the Pipe Dream cave, that that comes up of what is the Climbers Alliance around? And what is should be on the community? Because it's soft gear. And it's pretty much like a quick draw, you know? Tallie Casucci 58:45 What are you avoiding replacing? The permadraws? Julia Geisler 58:49 Yeah, yeah, right now, right now, kind of leave it to the community just because it's, you know, it's soft gear. And that stuff really does need to be maintained and replaced by the community that's using it? Tallie Casucci 59:01 Definitely. No, no, it's so many. Is that something that the field coordinator and you kind of talk through certain climbs and try to reach out to the first ascentionsits? Or is it? Julia Geisler 59:14 Yeah, and kind of the old WARI volunteer group of like, "hey, what do people think here?" Yeah, but trying to stay in your lane of replacing already established routes. We're not out there to develop new climbing areas. I think the other kind of challenge with anchor maintenance is bringing those first ascentionists to the table as well to be like, are you using stainless hardware? Are you thinking about where you're putting up routes or what other routes might be in the area kind of like a things to consider for new routers symposium, but I think every new router is like very entitled to this is my route and this is how I'm going to do it and there is a freedom in that and a great expression out there still happening but at the same time we are, you know, finding routes that aren't, the bolts aren't even correctly installed and like people really being more knowledgeable about the hardware and how long it's going to last. And what is this crap going to look like and 50 years, like these other crags we're seeing that have really unsustainable trails and approaches no parking, or, yeah. Tallie Casucci 1:00:21 So something that I was talking about yesterday, all of our guidebooks for the most part, are very, very dated. So how, how is the crew keeping up with? You know, there's definitely seems to be some crags that are, "hush, hush" - we're not going to tell you where the location is, you have to find it yourself. Like how do you balance the lack of documentation for some things, because the guidebook is from the '90s? And then also this like, some secretive of spots? Julia Geisler 1:01:00 Sure. Well, I think we kind of have like a checklist of how to figure out where to go. The first being like, whose land are we on? Do we have permission to do this work, you know, the Gate Buttress the things - 22 - that we have in place with the land agencies, because if a climber if, if one of our employees gets hurt, especially on land that we're not permitted to be on, that's not okay. So we start kind of there. And then we kind of go down the list of like, well, how popular is this? We have an anchor observation form that the climbers can report back to that's not super used, but that I think there's a future to working with apps, like Rock Project is a new app in the area that's like super powerful that we can start to, to partner with them 3D mapping of, of climbing areas where you can even see down to the bolt, and people could report on the bolt. And that can feed our database, things like that, or just, you know, observation, our anchor maintenance crew are all climbers in the area, which I think is really important. And, you know, climbing these spaces and see see what's needed. But I'm definitely started with the, you know, where can we work as the land agency and land manager to what, how often these places are used? What we're seeing with the hardware is kind of community collective knowledge down down the list? No, it's always more to do. Tallie Casucci 1:02:20 Yeah. There's so much climbing in the area. But prioritizing? Julia Geisler 1:02:26 Yeah. And the secret routes are, are part of that, like, fine, you know, if you're gonna go out and develop routes. Great, but let's have a conversation about what that looks like on the landscape in 50 years and your approach and because nobody thinks it's going to be told to the masses, but takes one Mountain Project posts, and then it is and then we're dealing with a trail that goes straight up like Lone Peak. Yeah, no, there's some, some things to consider. Tallie Casucci 1:02:52 Yes, definitely. So what are you currently working on with Salt Lake Climbers Alliance. Julia Geisler 1:03:00 So is coming back around to the Alpenbock Loop area. You know, you spent a decade and so much work putting in this, this trail and this connectivity to this amazing climbing landscape. And, you know, the bouldering bouldering problems and all this and then now there's, it's kind of on a little bit of the chopping block in terms of transportation proposals by UDOT coming at us for you know, for years now, they've had traffic problems in the canyons with the red snake in the winter. UDOT wants to fix that. And so they're looking at either putting in a, they're probably going to, they've chosen to put in a gondola as their as their recommendation. But that's yet to be funded and decided by the Utah legislature. So right now, basically, we're advocating that, you know, a gondola would be very impactful to that climbing resource and the experience and Little Cottonwood of like putting in towers and cables and the amount of construction that would go in in that in that zone, because the gondola would go on right through the Alpenbock Loop area and all the climbing resources around it from the bouldering project bouldering problems to you know, just the forest through there, which is a pretty small sliver in the canyon. So trying to advocate for, you know, climbing areas to stay open during that process. And so people can go climbing on their lunch break, even if the gondola goes in, to, you know, our boulder problems gonna be completely removed and taken out to just the overall experience of what that would do to the canyon that massive, massive infrastructure. So it's kind of a bummer to be spending so much time on, but that is the point of having a Climbers Alliance is to advocate you know, for climbers - 23 - interests at the table and we're in it for the long run. And no matter what happens in the canyons will stay at the table to try to, you know, keep climbing areas open and sustainable. Tallie Casucci 1:04:59 Yeah, yeah, focus on those successes too. Julia Geisler 1:05:04 Ya know, we're in it for a while. And you know that the stakeholders in the canyon all care about that canyon. So keeping that at the forefront of your mind, and there are real people that you're dealing with at the other end of the UDOT line. They care and so, yeah. Tallie Casucci 1:05:22 What do you why do you think people just love Little Cottonwood Canyon? Or why do you love Little Cottonwood Canyon? Julia Geisler 1:05:28 I think you love it more than I do, Tallie. Yeah, it's just striking. And the granite is like world class, there's nothing else like that. Maybe Yosemite is comparable from from what people say. But it's just super accessible. You're in nature really quickly. It's a great training ground. There's all different grades and levels and adventures that you can have like within minutes of Salt Lake City, year round, from ice climbing to bouldering to trad climbing to sport climbing, like we are just so lucky. So I think people move here live here work here because of that. And I think people care to protect it. Protect that experience. Tallie Casucci 1:06:10 Yeah, definitely. Since you've been at this for 10 years, what would you tell, if you or someone else was starting in a role similar to yours, how would you mentor them? What lessons would you share? Julia Geisler 1:06:31 Good question. There are other there are more local climbing organizations now hiring staff, which is great, because there's a lot of work to be done. And managing, like what you can actually get done versus expectations of what you think the alliance can do, is a constant balance, like what resources do we actually have to work with versus you know, the long term, we're in this for the long term? And there's a lot to do and a lot of relationships to keep going. But yeah, probably starting back, you know, at getting those relationships with the land agencies and landowners, first and foremost, so that you can start to do your work. And going from there. Tallie Casucci 1:07:18 Yeah, building those partnerships as soon as possible. Julia Geisler 1:07:22 Absolutely. Getting your skill set. And then yeah, fundraising, keep people keep people employed and get people jobs. You know, now we have a communications and sponsorship coordinator, that's part time. We have the field anchor maintenance coordinator, we have the anchor maintenance techs, we - 24 - have communications coordinator, and myself. So how do we keep now we have this small staff, you know, how to keep them and, and keep the knowledge and succession of, of board members and volunteers going through organization, I think, does take some some planning around. Tallie Casucci 1:07:56 How are you attempting to balance the paid staff versus all of the volunteers? Julia Geisler 1:08:05 Yeah, in the Climbers Alliance has forever been super strong in volunteers and, and passion and in skill sets that people want to contribute, and Utah is just known for volunteers, and when people want to engage in their community and give back and so I think that there is that symbiotic relationship of you know, this is a full time job to do social media posting and communications, you know, so knowing that somebody's at the end of the line going to get that work done, and having volunteers expertise and recommendations and, and manpower and woman power to get that, that amount of work done that then staff can at the end of the line execute on, I think is a great is a great relationship and a lot gets done because of that. But having, you know, term limits and clear expectations on on board members and volunteers I think has helped helped that as well. Tallie Casucci 1:09:05 Yeah, I mean, it's grown from you being air quote, part time... Julia Geisler 1:09:10 To full time to having a small staff to still board and committees. Yeah. That's a lot. Tallie Casucci 1:09:17 So in addition to being the Executive Director, you also have your own business right? Can you tell me about it? Julia Geisler 1:09:26 Park City Yoga Adventures is a an outfitter business up in Park City and we do hiking, snowshoeing, paddleboard, and aerial silks combined with yoga mostly outside. And so I started that business at the same time as I took this job with Climbers Alliance a decade ago. And it was kind of born out of yoga and outdoor adventure and combining those things and I actually had taken those Oakley School kids out on like hikes and then we do yoga outside and those kids loved it. I'm like, Oh, they love it. Other people all pay to do this and kind of just started that that business and we we landed a contract with the the Homestead Crater which is that 95 foot deep, or sorry, 65 foot deep hotspring and Midway, it's in this cave. And so we have, you know, we rent that space to do paddleboard yoga year-around when it's close to the public. So that's been kind of something you can not find anywhere else in the world is super unique experience, you know, build that relationship with the homestead is our outfitter business. And so we've been doing that for a decade, and that that's really the brunt of the company and then adding yoga hikes and other outdoor adventure yoga centric things. Silk hammocks and things like that. And that's really been a really a family, like Mom and Pop outfit or business amongst myself. And now my partner Blake has taken it over and is running it and guides and - 25 - Tallie Casucci 1:10:56 Is it just the two of you? Julia Geisler 1:10:58 Yep. Yeah, well, no, there's other guides. Okay. Handful of guides on the roster that, you know, come and go and work with us. But it has, yeah, people still love doing it. And it's been fun to grow, you know, a small business and a small nonprofit. A lot of things I learned in the nonprofit, I've been able to apply it the business that's been fun, and vice versa. Tallie Casucci 1:11:21 So how, how do you balance your like own outdoor pursuits, SLCA work, the small business, plus other life stuff? Julia Geisler 1:11:31 Like I, the small businesses, mostly gone to Blake. So that's been really helpful with Park City Yoga Adventures is both things have grown. And then you know, I think I do this work because of the lifestyle it provides, you know, I don't have an office that I have to go to nine to five. So if it's a powder day, and you can go and get some runs in in the morning, you know, then you have that ability to do that. And I think that's what keeps me keeps me motivated is that lifestyle that that affords working in the nonprofit world. And it's just it's constantly changing constantly a challenge. Tallie Casucci 1:12:05 Constantly learning. Julia Geisler 1:12:08 The landscape is always different of what you're going to do with your day. So I kind of like that. Tallie Casucci 1:12:14 What's the biggest challenge that you see facing the climbing community, whether that's Utah, specifically Wasatch, or just in general? Julia Geisler 1:12:24 Well hands down the climate crisis, in general, especially in Salt Lake with the Great Salt Lake and the air quality and the toxic dust and wildfires and just the Yeah, the climate is definitely of top concern to me. And I think, for our world, and that just trickles down into your, into your recreation pursuits, you know, like last summer, the wildfires are so bad, I don't think many of us got out and climbed in July and August because like, it was so bad, it was so smoky, I spent a lot of time indoors by the air filter. So when that stuff starts to really impact, you know, your outdoor pursuits in your climbing, I think we start to pay attention. So being at the table with with that change, and transportation and carpooling transit, that's, that's one place where we can do as climbers just be more mindful. But it's, that's I think, our number one high level catastrophe coming at us. And then, you know, you can you can filter that down to more the crag citizenship kind of idea of the more climbing grows, how do you continue to inform people? So they can make, you know, less impactful choices on the landscape or be kinder at the crag? Or how do we manage for the increase in people that areas to to incur maintenance? What's the - 26 - future of that? How are you going to keep maintaining this hardware that's out there, especially in wilderness and I think that's one of our main access threats is that the Forest Service right now doesn't recognize climbing exists and needs maintenance, especially in wilderness. So using a power drill and wilderness is is not allowed for us to send our anchor maintenance techs out. A we're not allowed under a permit with the Forest Service right now to go to those areas. But B you know, using a hand drill through places anchors, it's just unfeasible especially in places like American Fork Canyon, where there's 1000s of bolts that need replaced that are in wilderness. So that's, that's the main issue, I think, for our climbing community nationwide to bolts and wilderness, bolts and wilderness, maintenance of them and if they're going to be there in the future and working with the land agencies to educate and inform on, you know, climbing in general. Tallie Casucci 1:14:45 Yes, I realized we talked a lot about kind of access and advocacy, but you also mentioned the education side of things for Salt Lake Climbers Alliance. Is that kind of the main goal for the Salt Lake Climbers Festival? Julia Geisler 1:14:58 Yeah, and I think that's just a way, to you know, highlight our local outfitters guide outfitters that are in the climbing world, because they're so small a lot of times, and they are, they're really knowledgeable about taking people climbing. So trying to filter people to those people, as mentors is, is one of our big efforts. But also, you know, filtering up to introducing folks to the Salt Lake Climbers Alliance so that they can tune into the advocacy stewardship work and become better crag citizens and be informed and be part of the public planning and planning processes of Salt Lake and, and things like that. Talk to the representatives about what they want to see on on public lands. Tallie Casucci 1:15:43 That's great. So what type of impact do you hope to have or think you have had so far on the climbing community? Julia Geisler 1:15:55 Well hopefully I've been fun to work with. And productive kind person at the table would be my hope. And that impacted this community. And, yeah, that I've just been able to be a part of so many great, like projects and communal efforts has been, has been profound and very honored to be able to be a part of that. Tallie Casucci 1:16:19 No, that's great. Is there anything else that I forgot to ask you that you want to share about your climbing or? Julia Geisler 1:16:28 I feel like I've over talked my time and if anybody's listened to the end, I'm amazed. Tallie Casucci 1:16:36 All right. Well, thank you so much for your time and coming up here. - 27 - Julia Geisler 1:16:40 Thanks, Tallie. - 28 -