Oral history interview of Andrea Ramos Campos, conducted by Tallie Casucci (audio and transcript)

Andrea Ramos Campos (b. 1995) moved to south Florida from Peru when she was 6 years old. Her family moved due to racial challenges for her Black and White parents in Peru and for more opportunities for Andrea and her sibling. Andrea recounts growing up with a very loving family, a vibrant community, and a love for nature. Andrea enjoyed dance, including salsa, Afro-Peruvian music - festejo, color guard in high school, and eventually fire bending with a staff. Andrea discusses her first visit to the mountains and first climbing experience in Big Cottonwood Canyon. In 2016, Andrea moved to Salt Lake City and started climbing more with her roommates and overcoming financial barriers of the sport. Andrea then discusses her community organizing and leadership with Color the Wasatch, Salt Lake Area Queer Climbers, and Salt Lake Climbers Alliance. Andrea owns her own business, Lovin' Coven, a trauma-informed yoga practice and podcast.

ANDREA RAMOS CAMPOS Salt Lake City, UT An interview by Tallie Casucci October 18, 2022 Rock Climbers Oral History Project Tallie Casucci 00:02 Good afternoon. It's October 18, 2022. I'm Tallie Casucci and I'm talking with Andrea Ramos Campos at the Marriott Library in Salt Lake City about rock climbing, Color the Wasatch, Salt Lake Area Queer Climbers (SLAQC), and Salt Lake Climbers Alliance. So to get us started, can you introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about what it was like growing up? Andrea Ramos Campos 00:25 Yeah. Hello, I'm Andrea Ramos Campos. And I was born in Lima, Peru. So growing up, I was surrounded by a lot of family and a lot of music. My family wouldn't say this particularly, but I was definitely born to a family of artists. My mom was a dancer, most of her life, my dad plays several instruments. And my brother and my dad both draw incredibly well and paint. So growing up, I feel like I had a lot of freedom of expression through various different forms, whether it was through dance, through music, or through art, and maintained like, pretty active in Peru always going out and about with the family. And we came here in 2001, when I was six years old, we came to South Florida, because of the ongoing racism in Peru, I have a black mother and a white father. So it was really rough for them to be in a biracial relationship in Peru. And they came over here to give us more opportunities, which I'm really grateful for. So we ended up in South Florida, in the Palm Beach area, and that's where I was most of my life up until age 23 when I moved here. Tallie Casucci 02:10 Oh, wow. What was it like? Do you remember living in Peru other than those - music and family? Andrea Ramos Campos 02:20 Yeah, honestly, my memories of Peru are very faint. Which is why I kind of kept it broad, like I remember music. I remember family, we would have a lot of gatherings. We just love to be surrounded by community, and always playing fun, celebratory music, dancing, we mostly dance to salsa and Afro-Peruvian music called festejo which translates literally to celebrate. And that's what the Afro-Peruvian slaves used when they were enslaved to get through those hard times. So it's a really special piece of my history. Tallie Casucci 03:00 Definitely. What was it like being in South Florida? Andrea Ramos Campos 03:03 Yeah, so definitely grew up a little bit of like a beach baby sun worshiper, I was always out in the sun in the beach for most of my life, and growing up in South Florida was kind of cool now that I realized that because I had so much diversity all around me. And it really is a melting pot of cultures. You have the Caribbean I had a lot of Dominican, Puerto Rican friends, Jamaican friend, Haitian friends. And then also you have like Central America and South America. There's just like such a huge melting pot of communities. So my friends are anywhere from like Nicaraguan and Mexican, Guatemalan, which was really interesting for me growing up because as a biracial Latina, it feels like I can fit in anywhere but also nowhere at the same time. So I feel like it's been a process of coming home to myself and finding my labels and identities and not you know, trying to fit in to what wants to be placed on me or what society might try to say that I am so yeah, it's been like a process of coming home to self I call it. Tallie Casucci 04:39 Oh, yeah. Do you feel like your family was able to flourish in South Florida compared to what they were experiencing in Peru? Andrea Ramos Campos 04:52 Yeah, that's a hard one to say because the cultures here versus Peru are so different. And so in Peru, you more so grew up in a multi-generational home with a lot of family. And usually, well, if you're lucky enough, a lot of times, you know, the home was paid for, for by like your grandparents, and everyone gets to, you know, just live there and contribute a little here and there. And then here, we are so much more of an independently minded society. So it's definitely much more like hustle, grind. And I wouldn't say that my parents exactly flourished at the beginning. Because to be honest, we were very low income at the beginning. And when we first came here, my mom went from, for example, for like, from not working at all, because my dad was able to support us on one salary to both having to work a lot. And I feel like that kind of put them, not kind of, definitely put them in fight or flight mode, most of the time. And I feel like that's how I grew up. I was in fight or flight mode, and realizing how much finances really make it or break it for you here in this society and in this country, because any problems that my parents would ever face were always financial based. So I feel like I'm still working through those blockages of, of yeah, these like limiting beliefs around finances. So I feel like thankfully, my parents are definitely in a better position now. And I think that will mean my brother and I are so much better off here. Because we have so much more opportunities to pursue the things you want, versus in Peru. But yeah, I wouldn't say we are exactly flourishing at the beginning. Besides that, we've always been very wealthy in love. And that's something that I am very grateful for. Always an abundance of love in my household, even if, you know, emotional needs may not have always been met, because of that fight or flight mode, there was always a lot of love. Tallie Casucci 07:35 That's great. How was it growing up going from a really close knit multi-generational setting to then kind of just your family, in terms of kind of losing that element when you came here? Andrea Ramos Campos 07:55 So to be completely honest, since I was six, I feel like that transition really didn't feel as hard for me. I remember being really excited about coming here. And thinking I was going to be a secretary. And I don't know what little kid dreams of being a secretary but apparently I did. And I did become an admin assistant. So I was a secretary. So I accomplished that dream. But I feel that yeah, that transition wasn't really huge for me, because I was so little. And also because in South Florida, we still maintained a really wonderful community, of friends and family. So here we had my cousin and his wife, and then their two little boys. And then we had family friends that I've been in close contact with for most of my life now. So thankfully, we still had that sense of community, and like continuing being in our culture, because they're mostly Peruvian as well. So it still felt very at home. Tallie Casucci 09:07 That's neat. Was there anything that you were really drawn to as a kid growing up? Were you artistic? Andrea Ramos Campos 09:17 Yeah, so I'd say the thing I've mostly been drawn to that I keep coming back to is movement and it started off as dancing, both salsa and festejo, Afro-Peruvian music, and it has evolved throughout my time. In high school, I did Color Guard, which was flag spinning. So I danced that way with props. And then I started getting into the dance music scene and saw people with hula hoops and was just kind of entranced by it. So I started dancing with hula hoops as a prop. And now I have a staff, which is basically this big long stick and mine is a fire staff so you can light it on both ends. And I dance with that and I play with fire. Fire bend is what I like to call it. So I feel like body movement has been a huge portion of my life. And now even though yoga to me isn't mainly movement based, because I like to practice most of the other limbs of the practice. Definitely Yoga is a huge part of my life as well as, as a teacher and student. Tallie Casucci So Neat. Can you tell me more about dancing with fire? Yeah, totally! So what's cool about it is that I had friends that did this, so it didn't seem too impossible to me. But I figured that the staff would be the best thing for me, because I used to do Color Guard. So spinning a stick really just correlated very well. Um, and you know what, now that I'm thinking about it, there is an element of Fire spinning that reminds me of climbing, because you have to have a certain level of like mindfulness, you know, to not burn yourself and safety, and there's also the puzzle aspect of it, like weaving it forward and backwards on your body, and how the stick is moving in relationship to your body. So I feel like that feels really cool to me. And now that I think about it, I just really love the idea of puzzle solving and moving the body and figuring out body movement in relation to other things, whether on your body, the earth, etc. That kind of fascinates me. So, yeah, I got started through, through watching other friends and just thinking it was cool. And then someone was selling one online, a friend of mine at the time, and I was like, I'm just gonna go for it. And I grabbed my friend that spins fire as well. And I was like, "Could you help me? I want to light this thing and play around with it". She was like, "let's do it!" [laughs] Tallie Casucci 12:37 It's so neat. Andrea Ramos Campos 12:40 Thanks, I appreciate that. Tallie Casucci 12:42 So then, are there any other impactful experiences from childhood or youth or those early years that really stand out? Andrea Ramos Campos 12:54 Yeah, I would say some other experiences would be my connection to nature. I've always felt really drawn to it and I didn't notice until recently, how much growing up in Florida really lend it to that because even though it's mainly kind of hot and swampy, some of my favorite memories are at the park by the beach, by the water, or like riding bikes with my dad along the inner coastal area, and going with my family, walking to the beach or walking myself to the beach, just going to the beach after work because I worked at a beachside resort, seeing the sunset, or sunrise on the beach. And I took a liking to kayaking, I found kayaking while I was there, and I bought myself a kayak and would go out on the mangroves on my own and just connect with the water and the nature and I didn't really I didn't realize how much of an impact it has because I do it a lot more intentionally now as a mindfulness practice, but that's always something that's really helped me ground and connect. Tallie Casucci 14:19 Definitely, were you aware at the time of that mindful connection? Andrea Ramos Campos 14:26 You know what not so much. I feel like I'm realizing it now and maybe like recently, but I wasn't really thinking about it at the time being and I will say one more kind of cool growing up aspect is that I always drew mountains and hills, which is specifically funny to me because Florida is flat and Lima is flat. So I grew up in very flat areas, but I was always drawing hills and mountains. So I feel like it was like my heart calling me to them. In some way or another, I always felt really drawn to them. Tallie Casucci 15:05 That was going to be my next question! What brought you from the beach life to Salt Lake City and the arid Mountain West? Andrea Ramos Campos 15:15 Right? Very, very different climates. Yeah, so I took a trip out West in 2015. I was in California and Oregon. And I fell in love with the mountains there, more specifically on the Columbia River Gorge side of Oregon, which if you've ever been there, highly recommend still to this day, one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. And I know it was closed for a few years. So it's now open again, due to fires. But you, we drove through with the windows down, and you would just hear waterfall after waterfall after waterfall. And coming from sea level, never having really experienced mountains before in my life and doing like two or three super small accessible hikes and seeing three or four different waterfalls at one time, I was just so mesmerized. And the friend that I was with at the time, I kept saying, like, I need to move to the mountains, I want to move to the mountains. And my friend, Janel actually got a job at Huntsman [Cancer Institute] as a nurse. So she came out here first and was like, "I know you want to move to the mountains, California and Oregon are so expensive, you should check out Utah." I was like "Utah? What the heck is out there?" like, "okay, I guess, your pictures look pretty, let's check it out," you know, and I was at a time in Florida, where I just felt really stagnant. I was kind of in the cycle of working and partying, that didn't seem very healthy for me. And thankfully, I was able to acknowledge that and have some awareness around it, and some or a lot of willingness to change it. So I completely uprooted my life and went from living with my parents my whole life, to moving across the country, a 42 hour drive away, which is a pretty stark change. And it was not easy in the beginning, I did not have my support system. And I had to do a I got to do a lot of internal work very deep work of realizing how much I was suppressing my emotions with like, partying and drinking and weed, because I had always been a very emotional human, I just would suppress things because my family didn't have the resources to know how to deal with, with emotions and with, you know, different feelings just because they were always in fight or flight mode, you know, and not at all blaming it on them, they just didn't have the resources or means. But I think it was honestly the best thing I did for myself because I was able to gain so much awareness around my emotions and gain practices to learn how to work through them, and how to help others work through them. So I'm very passionate about that now. So yeah, that was the transition from Florida to Utah just kind of I need to change and packed up and left. Tallie Casucci 18:43 Oh, wow. Andrea Ramos Campos 18:44 Yeah. Tallie Casucci 18:48 At what point did you get interested in climbing? Andrea Ramos Campos 18:52 Yeah, so funny enough, I climbed for my first time before I moved out here. It was when I first came to visit in 2017. And I had quite an incredible first time experience, depending on what you like, and what seems incredible or not for you because it might not be incredible for other people but for me it is. My friend that had moved here and her partner at the time took me to the Slips up Big Cottonwood Canyon. And that was my first time climbing ever was right next to this gorgeous river crag in the shade. Like I can't imagine a better setup for my first time climbing. And yeah, they set it up for me to get on toprope. And thankfully I've not been someone who is too fearful of heights. Bouldering actually scares me more because I don't know how to, it feels like I don't know how to control my fall at times. And that scares me. But yeah, it felt so empowering. I remember getting up to the top and just being in awe that my body could quite literally hoist me up a mountain. That was my first experience rock climbing. I thought it was really cool. And honestly, I wouldn't say I was, you know, just immediately hooked. But I definitely found it so interesting and empowering. So when I moved over here, I had three roommates who were all rock climbers. And at the beginning, I was just using their guest passes as I was, you know, getting settled in and gym passes are expensive. So I really like worked my way up to it. Because it was not something that was super accessible for me at the time. So just started with friends' guest passes, going outside with them here and there, following on toprope. And then one of my roommates gave me a harness that I've used up until like last year. So I had a used harness, I got some shoes on sale. And I was literally using chalk out of just this regular plastic bag. I didn't even have a chalk bag yet when I first signed up for the gym. And this is the part of the beauty of the climbing community I feel like, it seems like they're just so generous and encouraging. And a girl there saw me like grabbing chalk out of my little plastic bag and gifted me a chalk bag, which I still find to be so sweet to this day. And I wish I knew her name. But it was so nice to just see a stranger be willing to, you know, gift something or do something for you. It was really special. And I feel like I've had a lot of moments like that within climbing where there was someone there to encourage you or uplift you in this sport that can also feel intimidating and competitive at times there is definitely a huge element of support and community. Tallie Casucci 22:14 That's so neat. For you that first experience going to Big Cottonwood Canyon to the Slips, did your previous experiences with movement? How did the movement of climbing feel to you? Andrea Ramos Campos 22:35 Yeah, that's such an interesting and good question to pose because I don't know if I was being as mindful or like thinking as much about my movement at the time, and of course, like, I definitely was because you have to to get up the wall, right. I feel like, even though I've had so much experience with movement, it's definitely unlike anything I had ever experienced. Because none of my other practices, and I wasn't practicing yoga at that time. So none of my other practices really kind of incorporate the puzzle element and problem solving aspect that climbing does. Right? And at that time, I wasn't fire spinning. Tallie Casucci 23:44 Oh! Andrea Ramos Campos 23:45 Yeah, I didn't have that in the back of my mind. So it was just such a puzzle piece to me of how to get my body up the mountain. So I think that's what I was thinking, just like the problem solving. I remember feeling around a lot to kind of like see where I'm placing my hand next placing my weight next. But yeah, it wasn't like anything I had ever experienced before. Honestly, I had nothing to really relate it to at that time. Yeah. Tallie Casucci 24:25 Interesting. I would just assume that everyone who dances naturally Andrea Ramos Campos 24:31 Like dances up to wall? [laughs] Tallie Casucci 24:33 Exactly! You basically do. [laughs] Andrea Ramos Campos 24:37 Yeah, I definitely can relate to it more. I don't think I related those at the time. Tallie Casucci 24:44 Yeah, maybe that connection develops a little bit later after you figure out a little bit more body position? Andrea Ramos Campos 24:54 Right and once you have a little bit more technique on the wall. Yeah, to me dancing and climbing are very, very different. You know, there's just very different movements. But depending on who you are, it could be like you are dancing when you are climbing up a wall. So yeah, those are very, like cool intersections to think of. Tallie Casucci 25:23 What do you think initially drew you to climbing and then what continues to draw you to climbing? Andrea Ramos Campos 25:30 Yeah, you're forced to be in the present moment. Yeah, what initially drew me to climbing is that, so I haven't always, and I still am not too much of a gym person. So when I think of exercising my body and building strength, I feel like a lot of the things I primarily think of like weight training just seem very, a little boring to me. Just one, two, like repetitive motion kind of thing. And climbing is never repetitive, it's always something new. And it's not something that you can do mindlessly, you know, you don't just like do-do-do your way up a wall, you have to be really intentional about it and really use both your mind you're like it your muscle on mental aspects, a lot of, of course, physical aspects. And that's just not something I experience a lot with other sports and movement type activities. And I think with the way my brain works, and how it can, and I think maybe others can relate to this a lot as well. But it is just always going, always moving. And I feel like climbing is that one thing besides now, you know, my meditation practices and yoga that can snap me out. And it's a one mind track, you know, it's me in the wall, and my body and the wall. So that's what I love about climbing and what keeps me coming back to it. Yeah, exactly. Tallie Casucci 27:23 Neat. What are some memorable, maybe climbing trips or experiences in the mountains that have had a big impact on you, other than that first, first time at the Slips? Andrea Ramos Campos 27:36 Yeah. Other than that first time at the Slips, I feel like I've been very lucky to have some really awesome memorable times in the mountains. I think one of the more memorable ones was recently when I went out with some friends. And what I loved about this group is that we were just all in the same headspace and wavelength that day, because a lot of times I feel like some of my friends are such hard climbers that they want to get there. And they want to be like four hours on the wall giving it their all. Sometimes I'm like, I just want to be outside with you and snack, you know, and we were all in that headspace of yeah, let's just be outside and snack and frolic around. And, and climb together. And you know, and also, of course, have that awesome aspect of problem solving and getting up a route. But it just seems so laid back. And so like pressures off. Competitions off. We did have a little bit of a scary encounter. So what happened and what made me very thankful to be with this group too, is I went to grab what I thought was a steady hold and it was a boulder that was loose, so it started coming down. And so I had some time I like grabbed it with my chest, I was like "rock!" So I yell down to them. So my belayer has time to move and the rock comes down onto the rope and causes fracture points. Thankfully, my friends knew how to look out and check for these so that we can get someone else up the other side or on top rope. And then they could leave the rope for me to tie back into so I didn't have to come down on that fractured rope. So I kind of like just chilled there on the side of the mountain until my friend finished the route next to me, and it was definitely a little scary at the time but I was also just so grateful that I had friends there that were so knowledgeable and that weren't going to let me come back down on a fractured rope. So, yeah, that experience was so many emotions wrapped into one. And just a lot of gratitude for the people I was with. Tallie Casucci 30:22 Oh, definitely. Where was this? Andrea Ramos Campos 30:24 This was at Chief Wall in the Uintas. Tallie Casucci 30:27 Ok, ohh. Andrea Ramos Campos 30:29 Yeah. Really beautiful crag. Tallie Casucci 30:31 Yeah. Interesting. During that experience and maybe afterwards, what have you done to educate yourself? So if the reverse happened, you could help one of your friends get out of this situation? Andrea Ramos Campos 30:49 Yeah. So immediately after I came down, I had my friends show me what a fractured rope might look like and how to spot it. So I know that now, which is really good knowledge to know. And I learned how to set up so that we can have someone that can basically like save someone else, if that was to ever happen again. I also have relearned recently how to rappel and just safety of almost always trying to have at least two ropes on you. When you're where you're going out climbing, definitely something I learned. And I always wear my helmet. And I'm really safety cautious. So I feel like those are the two main things that I learned from that experience. Tallie Casucci 31:46 No, definitely. I think we sometimes forget the hazards of climbing. Andrea Ramos Campos 31:56 Yeah, definitely. That was for sure a little wakeup call there because I had never, you know, in four plus years of climbing indoors and outdoors, nothing like that had ever happened to me. So it's good to kind of have a little, you know, wake up call, okay, make sure that you're still sticking to all your safety protocols. And, you know, I see people out there without helmets and stuff. I'm like, No, this is, yes, it's fun sport. And it can be very safe, especially out here with places like the SLCA, rerouting and rebolting all the time. But you're also out in mother nature, you never know what's going to happen. So definitely keep going with your safety measures at all times, double, triple checking everything you need. Tallie Casucci 32:48 Oh, yeah. Who are your mentors? From a climbing perspective and then maybe also community organizing? We'll get into that in a little bit. Andrea Ramos Campos 33:01 Yeah, yeah. So my mentors for a climbing perspective, I would say have evolved a little bit. And thankfully, I'm still good friends with all these people, which makes me happy. I'd say at the beginning, it was definitely my roommates. My roommates had been climbing for years when I got introduced to it. So I was really thankful to have their leadership have them quite literally show me the ropes. Bad pun, but yes. And yeah, they're just people that I really looked up to, and, and had a lot of patience with me when I was first learning, which I'm really grateful for. I think that now my mentors would most likely be my partner and my climbing buddies from Color the Wasatch and SLAQC who are the people that I climb with the most. I feel like my friends that I climb with the most, I'm always getting a chance to learn from them. Tallie Casucci 34:14 Can you tell me a little bit about Color the Wasatch and kind of your role in that organization? Andrea Ramos Campos 34:21 Yeah, definitely. So Color the Wasatch was started by Priyam Patel, who's a professor at the U [University of Utah], and Priyam is an incredible individual who just realized that as we all know, because Salt Lake City is a predominantly White area, that climbing was predominantly a White sport and not just only White, but White and male dominated mainly. And so we wanted to, or Priyam at the time wanted to seek out friends that weren't all within that dominant space that she could climb with and build community with. So that's where Color the Wasatch came up. And at the beginning, it was BIPOC at the Front. But we wanted to extend it to the bigger Wasatch community. So we're now Color the Wasatch. And it's really cool because my friend, Rosie [Garibay] had put together a climbing, climbing get together for folks of color. And folks of culture, I've been leaning more towards that, but everyone has their own culture anyways. So she had started that a while back before BIPOC at the Front. And it was really cool. We had maybe like, six, seven people show up. And it was just nice to be like, "Oh, wow, there's more than just me out there." And because usually you get to the gym, and you are a lot of times the only Brown person. And I still experienced that. And, that's just something that I have gotten a lot more used to. But also, it's not something that I have to have to deal with all the time now that we have this community, right. And that's, this isn't meant to be like, a thing to exclude anyone, but it's meant to make space for those that have been historically underrepresented. And if you are a person that is Brown, Black, Asian, or Indigenous or other person of color, you are not really, you're not seeing yourself in this sport as much, right. And as we've heard a lot, representation really matters. So being able to have people that look like you, that can show you how to do things. And that, you know, you don't have to educate or explain things, some things to because you have shared backgrounds. It just gives you a little extra sense of comfort when you're out doing a sport that can be intimidating. So yeah, we've really found an incredible sense of community through this group. We also do combined meetups with Salt Lake Area Queer Climbers, realizing you know that queer folks and people of color both have been historically underrepresented, and just kind of meeting at that intersection, so that we can all come together once in a while. And it has just been really refreshing and heartwarming and kind of like cup filling to have that as well. Yeah, it's been really great. Tallie Casucci 38:11 Yeah. Is it something that you, I guess your friend Rosie had to kind of start organizing something was that pretty soon after you moved here? Or was it kind of had been a while? And how was that transition going from a more diverse South Florida setting with friends to very White Salt Lake City? Or perceived White? Andrea Ramos Campos 38:39 Yeah. So I met my friend, Rosie, maybe like, a year after I moved here. And that's about when that happened, where she created that group. And then she moved away. So when Priyam started BIPOC at the Front or Color the Wasatch, that was not an ongoing thing, right at the time. And the cool part is that Rosie was able to make it from Wyoming to our first meetup. And let me just talk about the first meetup for a moment because I was like, "Okay, we might get like 5-10 people and awesome, like, I'll feel really good about it." And we show up and there's like, 25 of us. It's like, "what?! where have you all been?" It was just such an exciting moment. But you asked about the transition. So for me, the transition started a little rocky, honestly, just because a lot of emotions came up. And not being near my family was definitely a little rougher than I thought, because I realized that I had this whole like perception of I'm so independent, but I'm away from my family, and I'm like, "I can really use my Mama." So it definitely took a bit of adjusting to. But I will also say that because I had such a love and reverence for nature that I feel so at home here now, because I just feel a lot more in tune with my surroundings, especially with the seasons, I love having seasons. Fall is one of my favorites. So I've just been like, laying out in my hammock watching the tree, the leaves fall off the tree, and it's just such a happy place to be in. I get so many new experiences that I didn't get growing up, because the seasons were like, wet or warm. [laughs] So I will say, sometimes it can still be hard to be in a place, or lots of places and be the only Brown girl around. But I also will claim that title and wear it proudly. And yeah, I really enjoy it here. And I have this theory that being surrounded by mountains in the valley makes you feel like you're getting a little hug. It just feels so cozy and homey in Salt Lake. Tallie Casucci 41:25 Oh, I like that visual. So what's your role with Color the Wasatch? Andrea Ramos Campos 41:32 Yeah, so the cool part is we don't have specific assigned roles. So we're all kind of coorganizers. But a lot of what I do is help out with our social media. So I will make a lot of our posts, I repost things for our community members to kind of look at and have opportunities around. And and yeah, I feel like everything else, we kind of split amongst one another. But some of the other things I do within Color the Wasatch is table at events and kind of just spread the word about us. And of course, help organize our climb nights, so that we can bring community together and community is definitely one of my like, main core values. So it just feels really aligned to be helping out in that space. Tallie Casucci 42:35 What are some accomplishments these past few years? Two years? How many years has Color the Wasatch? Andrea Ramos Campos 42:43 It's been about two years. Tallie Casucci 42:45 What are some major accomplishments that you're particularly excited about? Andrea Ramos Campos 42:50 Yeah, definitely. So we recently had our first two clinics, which is super exciting. Our first one was with Caleb Robinson, who's a professional climber. And he got to teach a bouldering clinic to almost 60 something people in our group, which was, I'm still like, amazed by that turnout. It was super incredible to see. So since then, we've had that clinic. Another one of my really exciting achievements for us is that a lot of really big places have decided to sponsor us so that we can give back to the community and do raffles around things like our climb nights and meetups. So for example, Black Diamond has donated a lot of gear, I mean, yeah, almost all brand new gear for us to give away as raffles to folks that otherwise wouldn't, a lot of times wouldn't be able to afford it. We have also partnered with Gnarly Nutrition, we've gotten a lot of things from them and discount codes for all of our members and the Front Climbing Club sponsors us which has been a really awesome ongoing sponsorship. So we get a stipend to use at the Front every month that we can use towards guest passes, towards food at Rumsy's, or towards the store so we grab things like ropes, quickdraws for people to raffle off. And then recently I started working with Lululemon and Lululemon has also been gifting us things to raffle away. So those have been really awesome achievements of ours. There's been, there's been quite a few now thinking about them. So we also put together a clinic with two of the route setters within the Front that also identifies as people of color. So it was a really fun, intimate little clinic where they taught us how hard it is to be a route setter, because that is tough. And gave us some insight on how they set, why they do the things they do. And we got a chance to also give them some feedback, which is really great. And I know everyone wants to be in the spot to like, you know, be able to give some feedback to the route setter sometimes, so it was, it was cool to provide that space. And I will say our biggest two accomplishments. We have a an article out about us that came out through Melanin Base Camp, that our friends David [Robles] and [Caroline Hsu], I’m forgetting the name right now, but our friends at Melanin Base Camp in Salt Lake, wrote an article about us [https://www.melaninbasecamp.com/trip-reports/2022/9/4/colorthe-wasatch-climbing-is-your-community]. And then the last really big one is that we're recently signed on to by American Alpine Club as a fiduciary sponsor. So basically what that means is that we're able to use their 503 nonprofit status to accept donations. So now Color the Wasatch can accept donations that we will put towards guest passes, towards more gear for the community, and just making our events even better. Tallie Casucci 46:24 That's so fantastic. What are some personal goals that you have for Color the Wasatch? Andrea Ramos Campos 46:38 Yeah, so I am a big dreamer. I have this goal of wanting to host retreats in the future, mainly for yoga, as a yoga teacher. But I would love to have a retreat for Color the Wasatch specifically that incorporates not only yoga but like guided hiking, climbing clinics, that is something I would love to see in the near future. Tallie Casucci 47:15 So you're also involved with Salt Lake Area Queer Climbers, SLAQC, tell me a little bit about SLAQC. Andrea Ramos Campos 47:22 Yeah, so very much like Color the Wasatch, SLAQC is an affinity space for queer climbers. And SLAQC has been around just a little bit longer than us. And my role within SLAQC, I'm in the advisory committee. So basically, I help them, I help them with ensuring that they're staying true to their values and mission and vision, which they have very, like, amazingly put together. It just feels like their space has become so cohesive and so supported and loved by the community. And they've had oh, my gosh, SLAQC has had so much awesome recognition and, and really big accomplishments throughout their time as well. So it's so cool to see both of these spaces grow and also hold space for one another and come together. It's, it's been really beautiful. Tallie Casucci 48:28 I agree. What are a few accomplishments from the SLAQC perspective that you're really proud of? Andrea Ramos Campos 48:35 Yeah, so one of the co-organizers for SLAQC, Rue [Zheng] just recently made a website for SLAQC which looks amazing. And so it's so cool to see that come together. They have or we've since I am a part of it. We've reached our fundraising goal through selling merch with Bonfire and we were able to get several more pieces for marketing and have some money left over to better our events as well. We've also partnered with American Alpine Club to use their their nonprofit status as well to accept donations. And SLAQC has also been working with Black Diamond. They did a whole awesome photoshoot in the desert and had this amazing article come out for them. We had so many of our members be featured in Black Diamond's campaign and are still being featured on their website. So that I feel is so cool to just have so much more representation. And not only that, but they got to keep a lot of the things that they modeled. And so it's just really, really amazing to see all of the cool accessibility aspects that we brought together with SLAQC and Color the Wasatch. SLAQC has also had a lot more outdoor events, and recently put together a speed dating event, which is really fun and cool. So SLAQC has been doing some amazing things. And yeah, those are the main ones I can think of right now. Tallie Casucci 50:40 So you're also involved with Salt Lake Climbers Alliance, can you tell me a little bit about what you've been doing with SLCA? Andrea Ramos Campos 50:50 Yeah, so I was with SLCA for almost three years. I started off in the events committee. And then after I started working on the JEDI Committee, which the acronym stands for justice, equity, diversity and inclusion. And shortly after starting our work there, I was nominated as Chair for the committee. And about a year and a half to two years of being chair within the committee, I decided to also take on a chair position within the Board. So I was recently a board member with Salt Lake Climbers Alliance. And I say was because as you can tell, I'm involved in a lot of things. So I unfortunately had to, you know, really do some prioritizing and regroup and notice that I am not Superwoman. And I cannot do so many things at once. So unfortunately, SLCA was the one that I kind of cut ties with for the time being, though, I'm still very much admire their work and I'm friends with a lot of the people within the board and within the JEDI committee as well. That is just kind of what it came down to, after realizing all of the things I was taking on, and really trying to better manage my time and energy. So what I did with SLCA, like I said, at first I was in the events committee, so helping out with events and volunteering there. And then within the JEDI committee, while I was chairing it, I am very proud to say we accomplished a lot. And I have a list of those accomplishments that I won't read out all to you, but a lot of, but some of the big points that I'll make is that we made space for free tickets to the Climbing Fest and Party two years in a row for those in financial need. And many of those included gear as well. So we've made space for more people to attend. We've offered accessible ticket options, either by donation or pay what you can for a Reel Rock event. We assisted with new framework for committee applications. We created a blog post on how UDOT proposals perpetuate marginalization and the Wasatch. And we have David Carter to thank for that. We came up with a mission statement, goals and objectives based on each part of our acronym. And we hired an auditor to do an audit of all of our policies and documents and also give us training on JEDI principals. And from that audit, we have about like 27 to 28 action items to take with us to further improve our work in those areas. We also received two trauma informed trainings on DEI work by that auditor. Our board is now more diverse, which is really awesome to better represent our community as a whole. We've also created a proposal for fee structure for different events. We've led the first ever affinity group clinic at the Salt Lake Climbers Fest, we lead the first ever Adaptive Climbing clinic. And yeah, those are some of the main points of all that we've done but it has been such a pleasure to be able to chair our committee to get all of those things accomplished. So I definitely left you know a little sad, but also so grateful that I was able to take part in all that impact and change. So I'm hopeful that they'll just continue moving forward from there. And I feel like we've set up a good foundation for it. Tallie Casucci 55:15 Oh, yeah, under your leadership, so much happened! What is, from your perspective, what's the thing that you're most excited for besides laying this foundation? Maybe what was something that you found were your biggest wins that should be celebrated? Andrea Ramos Campos 55:48 So this is part of a huge ongoing conversation that I'm sure will probably take place for years to come. But being a climbing stewardship and advocacy group, I always came back to the original stewards of the land, which our state is literally named after Utah, which is the Ute and Paiute nations. And I will, I really wanted to see us involve those communities more in our work, because we are quite literally working with the land. And I feel like their voices really need to have a place at the table. So I feel like if anything, my biggest contribution was to get that conversation started. Our policy team did a great job. They have someone that is specifically doing Indigenous Studies here at the U, that was able to do a presentation for us on how we can work towards building relationships with these communities. But also, there's been so much harm done that, you know, we can't just go up to them and be like, "Hey, we'd love for you to check out what we're doing," you know, it doesn't work like that there really has to be trust built. So I think that would be one of them. And then the other one, I think the audit process was really amazing, amazing, and like a huge undertaking. So I feel like that really is setting up the work for their DEI movement going forward. Tallie Casucci 57:35 Yeah, that's awesome. So what draws you to be so involved in the community in these leadership positions and doing this community organizing? Andrea Ramos Campos 57:47 Yeah, so I come back to the word that is used often in these, but it really is all about community to me. I have found such a sense of safety in what can be a very dangerous sport, because of the people I'm surrounded by and, and the folks that I'm with, and I know how much of an impact it can make, to not only be in community with, with people that are like minded or shared similar experiences, but also to do so while communing with nature is something that's really special to me. And not to beat a dead horse with this, but I also just think that the representation is huge, because even though we have so many more climbers of color and queer climbers out there, there is not a huge amount of Brown and queer and immigrants and people with, you know, backgrounds like me out in climbing and I feel like just having that representation. If one person sees me and thinks, "oh, maybe I can do this too, if she can" then I feel like my mission is accomplished. Tallie Casucci 59:36 Oh, it's beautiful. What lessons would you share with other people who want to create similar groups? Andrea Ramos Campos 59:48 Yeah, I think that my biggest one would be to take care of yourself, because community organizing, community work, we tend to want to give and give and give, and kind of leave ourselves as an afterthought, you know, and community care can't be there without self care. So I would say, to have practices to really bring yourself back into your body, bring yourself to regulate your nervous system, and to learn how to manage your time and energy, because this work can be a lot, but it can also be so rewarding. So knowing that balance is important. Tallie Casucci 1:00:51 Yeah, how do you balance that personally? Andrea Ramos Campos 1:00:55 At the start, very rocky! [laughs] Tallie Casucci 1:00:58 Or attempting to balance? [laughs] Andrea Ramos Campos 1:01:01 Yeah right! It's an ongoing effort for sure. I, as I mentioned, I took a lot on, and I was trying to be everything for everyone. And that's not how, how it works. So I had to really sit with myself and think of my values, and what aligns most with them? And I think that this is an amazing exercise for everyone to come back to. Because it's good to know what we want to achieve what we're working towards what fills us up, right? And then take a look and say, okay, these parts of my life do they fit within this area or not? And if they don't, what can I do to either make them fit or not put in as much time or energy into them? And let's say you have a bunch of values, and you just enjoy so many things, then you have to see what fits in best where your time and energy is most valued, as well. And whenever you're not feeling like you're being valued or that you are not where your efforts aren't being appreciated, then that's when you can see about moving on, right? So yeah, it's definitely an ongoing thing for me. Because even though now I just have Color the Wasatch and Salt Lake Area Queer Climbers, I still am also trying to run a business and working part time and I have a partner, a social life, and a dog and a cat. It can it still feel like a lot sometimes. And when I know that they're all shaping and moving me towards what I want and what I value, it feels so much better and so much more aligned to be putting my time and energy into those things. Tallie Casucci 1:03:18 Yeah, can you tell me about your business? Andrea Ramos Campos 1:03:22 Yeah! So I have recently started my own business called Lovin' Coven. And so, some of my main core values are love and community. As I mentioned, I grew up in a family full of love. I grew up with a big vibrant community of people, dancers, musicians. And I feel like that is always the main thing I come back to and why I do so much of my community organizing. And so my business is called Lovin' Coven, combining love and community, and coven was used, or is still used for a group of witches. And I'm not calling my community witches per se, but I think it's kind of a play on words, because to me yoga is a form of magic, a form of mindful magic. And so having that element of magicality, I guess, is because yoga is a spiritual practice and it doesn't have to be a specific religion that you practice it with. It is very much nondenominational. So it's a universal practice that can be used for anyone. And there is also a spiritual element to it. So that's where the Lovin' Coven name came from. Also an ode to my close friends that I went through a lot with that used to call ourselves a coven. And my mission with Lovin' Coven is to help support my community with resources and tools to get back into their body and to regulate their nervous system, which is something that I struggled with a lot growing up. Tallie Casucci 1:05:14 So what do you do? You do yoga? Andrea Ramos Campos 1:05:17 Yeah, so part of that is storytelling. I have a podcast called Lovin' Coven, where I share tips and tools surrounding subjects like spirituality, leadership, community, and social impact. And then I teach yoga as well. So I have a workshop that I'm starting to run, the first one is tomorrow, which is really exciting, called Mindful Magic, which is, again, what yoga means to me, and yeah, I do yoga practices, really coming more from the angle of nervous system regulation and coming back into the body through breathwork, meditation and gentle movement. So I'm not focusing as much on the postures or alignment, I like to call it more of intuitive yoga for mindful living. I give you a lot of options, I give you a lot of liberties. So you feel like you have agency over your own body. Because I feel like in a lot of yoga classes, you're just being talked to and it's not a back and forth. So I'm really trying to build more of a back and forth with folks having more discussions and helping them listen to their bodies, because we are just so stuck in the mind and going 1000 miles per hour that it can be hard to connect back to ourselves. And our bodies are constantly giving us messages, we just never really stop enough to take a moment and listen. So that's been my mission with with Lovin' Coven, and what I'm trying to build there. Tallie Casucci 1:07:10 It's really neat. Andrea Ramos Campos 1:07:11 Thanks! Tallie Casucci 1:07:13 So what's the biggest challenge that you see facing the climbing community? And that can either be here locally or kind of bigger picture or both. Andrea Ramos Campos 1:07:27 That's a interesting one. Yeah. So I have I feel like there is two that I can think of right now. One is that, I think many climbers have been so used to climbing being a certain way, that as it's changing, it might be hard for them to let go of that, I think that there needs to be a little bit more open mindedness around change within the climbing community. And this isn't, you know, I'm not targeting a specific, like demographic or anything with that statement, just kind of like general overall climbing community. Just being open to, to the landscape changing, not the landscape, like the mountains, but the people climbing, gym climbers, I know, as the city continues to grow, it's going to continue to evolve. So I think that would be one. The second would be that that relationship with the original stewards of the land, I would say, will be an issue that we'll eventually face, because unfortunately there are already climbers that are being disrespectful of areas that are very sacred to Indigenous communities. And if climbers are going out and not having any regard for those spaces, I think that that can really start giving climbing a bad rap, if it's not already, within Indigenous communities. And I think that's something that we have to be aware of, because we have to learn how to coexist, you know, within, within our outdoor spaces, and I want them to be for all of us, right? So yeah, learning that balance of coexisting within so many spaces that can be very sacred to some and, you know, we're, or not we but some climbers can be out there with little regard to that idea. Tallie Casucci 1:10:08 What impact do you hope to have on the climbing community? Andrea Ramos Campos 1:10:14 Yeah. Like overall or just in Salt Lake? Tallie Casucci 1:10:20 Overall. Andrea Ramos Campos 1:10:20 Overall. Tallie Casucci 1:10:21 Dream big! [laughs] Andrea Ramos Campos 1:10:23 Ok! Yeah, I feel like I've mentioned this already. And I think that just if I get one person that maybe, you know can see themselves within climbing because of me, I think that's an achievement. But besides that, I would love to see I love to see us and us being affinity spaces and groups like Color the Wasatch and SLAQC continue to collaborate with other groups like I know what has come out now called All Bodies Climb for plus sized climbers. So I love to continue that collaboration going. And I hope that it makes more space for other gyms to create those spaces as well. And the overall impact of that is that we just see more people climbing and enjoying the outdoors. And hopefully also receiving education and around enjoying the outdoors mindfully. And doing it in a way that isn't. That isn't disrespectful to either nature or the communities that we coexist in these spaces with. That's really what I'd like to see. Tallie Casucci 1:11:58 Oh, that's awesome. Is there anything else that you'd like to share that we haven't covered already? Andrea Ramos Campos 1:12:05 No, I think that's it. Tallie Casucci 1:12:07 All right. Well, thank you so much for coming and talking. Andrea Ramos Campos 1:12:12 You're so welcome.