P. T. Reilly correspondence with George S. Tanner, 1985

Copies of typed letters from P. T. Reilly of Sun City Arizona, to George S. Tanner in Salt Lake City during 1985. Topics include a diary by Hezekiah Sumner Hatch and reviews of current historical writings, but were mainly focused on personal happenings and opinions on current events and politics. There is reference of the move of the LDS Genealogical Society to the new Family History Library.

Dear George, January 3., 1985 My letter of Dec.26 and yours of the 27th undoubredly crossed and I will reply to yours as you raised a couple of interesting points. Thank you for the reference to the Bitton article in Dialogue. I will certainly look it up and at least obtain a xerox copy. If it makes you weep, it will do something to me. I hope Davis does not get in trouble for exposing such things. The church needs men of the stature of both Davis Bitton and Leonard Arrington, and the fundamentali st witch doctors hurt the entire organization when they bring such drastic things about. I have run across several such dirty deals that I have soft-pedaled . The question of organized anti-LDS bias, in my opinion, does not exist in the non-Mormon population except among Blacks and their do-gooder sympathizers . Regardl ss of the Kimball Declaration, Blacks do not like llormons and they have become so powerful in certain areas and large cities that they think they can make it tough for the Saints. Blacks have screwed up every African country they control, every city in the US where they wield power. They simply are a corrupt race. They are abetted by White do-gooders who seem to undergo spiritual orgasms while flagelating all Whites for sins of past ages. T~is unholy coalition of Blacks and Do-gooders has to be recognized and put to flight, just as the last election indicated. It is a social cancer which the society w grew up in cannot tolerate. We have allowed the political position of Blacks to over-balance their general input, and this has to be reversed. Decent Blacks are persecuted by no-good Blacks. Look at the case of the hite man who shot those four Blacks who tried to mug him in the NY subway. They should give the guy a medal for having the guts to defend himself, but instead he is arrested as a criminal while the actual criminals draw sympathy. Public support for the man who defended himself is heart-warming and th~ backlash is being seen. Walt Hazzard was a Philadelphia Black who was recruited by John ooden in the 1960s. He was a radical SOB even then and Wooden had to suspend him a couple of times for disciplinary reasons. I think he joined the Black Muslims and took a new name but switched back to his natal name to help his career as a coach.after a short career as a pro due to his violent temper. He gathered a group of delinquent Blacks in Compton and formed a basketball team but the thugs he coached were unable to get into any athletic program even with Affirmative Action--a synonym for a scholastic double standard. Through a church connection (he uses all connections) he got a job coaching at my old school, Chapman College. Of course he brought his Compton Niggers in but the school could not afford what his 5th grade dropouts thought they were worth, and his program went nowhere. Neither Blacks nor hites were satisfied. They didn't want to learn anything, only play, be glorified, and paid. UCLA now is controlled by White do-gooders and Blacks. The liberal movement moved from the Berkeley campus and now is firmly entrench d at Westwood. The Black mayor of L.A. -Bradley- graduated from UCLA in the 1930s and uses his influence in conjunction with the liberal do-gooders to see that any Black can get into UCLA regardless of Affirmative Action quotas. Blacks there even have formed a club of Black athletes who used their~four years of eligibility, did not learn. attend classes or graduate and were nearly illiterate when their "careers" were over. They even got an ACLU lawyer and tried to sue the University for their condition but it never got o(ff the ground. Now they act as "advisors" to other Blacks who were illiterate when they came to UCLA, urging them to learn something . As you say, Blacks expect preferent ial treatment . They are trying to take over all athletics at UCLA, with Bfack coaches. The do-gooder s got a Black, Larry Farmer, in as basketbal l coach. Farmer was a graduate ,~ good player, and was a good coach but he wasn't militant enough and was called an "Uncle Tom." He played Whites and B1acks, which didn't please the militant Blacks. At the end of last season they proposed firing one of Farmer's assistant coaches and replacing him with Hazzard. Farmer would have none of that because he saw the handwritin g on the wall and knew what a double-cr ossing, back-stabb ing SOB Hazzard is. He seemed to have won out but suddenly resigned for reasons never made public and Hazzard became head coach. Now he is deliberate ly playing some inferior White players to make his point that Affirmativ e Action should be broadened so he can bring his entire Compton A.C. thugs to school. Hazzard is a no-good SOB and all the decent schools should boycott UCLA as long as he is coach. Somebody should kill the bastard. UCLA is always asking for money but we haven't given them a cent in years, and won't. Your letter of the 29th just came. We never heard a thing about the UCLABYU fracas but it seems to be par for the course. Things going on in So.Cal ~ would make your skin crawl. I enclose one article that Susie's brother sent me. Blacks go out in gangs, mug, rape, and rob in White areas. The LA ~olice Dept. is too thin to handle it and BRadley doesn't want vice controlled . It's a sad situation . our main hope is that dope will kill them off. Maybe you understand better why we moved to Arizona. I read the comments of Wm. Raspberry but I like Walter Williams much better. Now I've heard everythin g. I never expected to hear of a Mo~mon who did not know Ira Hatch. Next you'll tell me they don't know about Thales Haskell or Jacob Hamblin. The Hatch data you sent me was helpful as· it accounts for Sumner being the middle name of Hezekiah Sumner Hatch (not Eastman). I judge that the father of Hezekiah Sumner Hatch, whose name in not known to me, was a brother or cousin to Lorenzo Hill Hatch. The autobiogra phy written up by Davis Bitton definitely does not sound like the diary Al ~rown saw at Harvard. If you talk to Davis Bitton, ask him to send me a reprint of his article in Dialogue re Leonard A. We are looking for a Hatch who left the church and moved to So.Cal.,-t he father of Hezekiah Sumner Hatch. Don't push it. Besides winding up my second book and needling Susie to complete the final draft of the last chapter of my first book, trying to find time to buy a video recorder and a cassette tape recorder, I'll be lucky to arrange a meeting with Eva Shelley, but Dow Shumway has to get in line. I even work past my bedtime keeping up on my correspond ence. What do you need from Shumway? Well, BYU wound up No.1, whatever that means. ·I'm glad to see them get that honor. Hope Edwards has a good team next year as the better teams will be pointing for them--amon g them, Washingto n. I don't know whether they have any other top teams on their schedule but hope they do. We hope more improveme nt shows in your eye operation soon. Keep warm. It is cool here - 37 degrees at 6 AM. Keep me posted. Best regards, ~PJ F. T. Reilly Dear George, January 23 ,. 1985 I have been waiting to hear fromDavi s Bitton before answ~ring your letter of Jan.14. His reply came today and in case you haven't talked to him, I think he has identified the man about whom I inquired. The family had a man named Sorenson write a 122-page biography of the grandfithbr~ apparantl y using the journal in ~uestion but editing out the negative stuff, as I see it. I say -this because it doesn't sound like the one Brown saw at Harvard. This is not worth pursuing as far as I am concerned but it could be worthwhil e for HDC. I'll write Davis in a day or so as I want to ask him for a reprint of the Dialogue article. I was surprised to learn that the Phoenix Public Library has never heard of ialogue. Neither has any other in the area and I have just about co. luded it is pretty scarce in So. Arizona. ;. Do yo1 know whether Don Schmidt is still there or was he swept out with L. ? I have a few quotes from HDC material that I want to use and thought I'd write Don, •if he is still in the saddl• -unless you hav b ttar suggestio n. Th~ Raspberry article was good and I agree with it 100 percent, but that i. too logical for most Blacks. H~ve you ever read anything by author Thomas Sow 11 or columnist Walter Wllliams? Both .are black and pr ach the same line but few Blacks listen to them for the major"ity would rather bl me Whitey and racism for all of their• troubles. Condition s in the L.A. area are very bad as black gangs sally out of So. L.A. every night to rob, mug, and· rape in white areas. · ·When the LA Times prints the stories, Blacks break the boxes on street corners and destroy the paper.a. The Black mayor is giving them ·rr-tie·, ·rein as he emasculat es "the police ·.f orce in favor o:f,. socia.l worker,s . If I lived there now T wouldn't'· g·o anyplace .wlth0ut a .357 magnum,, and_ many whites, · except the d,o-gooder s. · feel .the · same -. way.. No, our papers 'did',.not carry the sto.ry ·of sour: grisley .m4~ders by the School of 'Prophets. . It, sounds gruesome.. If . the juror~ don't mandate , _. . .', ·de th sentences . something .. is terribly :Wrong. I liked your comparison that BYU .is more like N9tre Dame than Harvard or Stanford . So true. It is a pity that so :maY;ty big time schools compete for so many of Compton's and Watts' 5th grade drop-outs . But it i the alums who demand winners at any cost , ·o r they would change things fast. Your compariso n of Blacks and Mormons r~minds me of t)1.e ol-d days when t he Indians asked ·; "You -white man or:.: you ··Mormony?" Nr,w you say that Mormons rate ·higher than the average American. r ·t hbught Mormons were Americans . · No · doubt · sonte ·· Morrri'ons do · rate above average, but there are a great many wh·o -ra:te well below . average al~o.. Even the smarter ones are so warped by fundamen talist. dogma that they, lose the .b enefit of being smar;t. The main LDS strength is in holding the :family ·u nit together when· .it generally is deteriora ting in the non-Mormo n world. Are many young Mormon, couples living together without .benefit of ,marriag.e ? The custom is pandemic ·outside of Utah. What's bad i,s that conventio nal · · people· ac~ept the· practice as normal. I'm going out in a few days to buy a cassette recorder, and in time I'll get over to see Eva for you. Right now I'm operating close to the vest. I have only .30 pages to go on my final proofing, artd I have Susie is deep in making corrections. Polishing is infinite. used a reel-type recorder in the past but a cassette is so much handier and .3-inch reels have become a proble • Hope Chas P gets his three vols of F.G. Nielson. Elmis didn't have too many left when I got /,:m ine ·.·· They are mighty valuable for one interested in pioneer history. I am surprised that he didn't have a set. Incidentally, my book is going to reveal a little incident that Bro. Nielson failed to include in his journals, yet they confirm it. I combined them with another diary and the Johnson ferry records to show he was as human as Lot Smith. I'm certainly glad that the BYU and No.1 controversy has cooled off. It was rather childish when various parts of the ... bountry allowed themselves to be guided by regional pride. At least the Oklahoma coach got a sewage pond named for him. ·,c•. · · ·• What have you heard about the new Woodruff diary books? I'm thinking ·--a bout getting a set but ·don't ·have t ·oo much faith in the editing. · Do you have any opinion? ~~ep warm and dry. Best regards, P. T. ReillY,: ~ February 5, 1985 Dear George, I received your ·letter of the 28th on Feb.1 and was glad to hear that you are warm enough to write. Recent weather reports say that Utah recorded a new US low of 65.7 degrees below z ro at Peter Sinks- her ver that is. It reached JJ on our patio-balmy by your standards-but got to 25 at Chandler and Mesa. There are 29 inches of snow at Flagstaffo Davis Bitton ent me a reprint of his article in Dialogue in response to my request, and I read it with great interest. I can understand your reaction, and mine was almost the same. If the ETB faction r turns to the policies of Will Lund. ·HDC will lose some of the stature it attained under Arrington . How anyone could rad that impressive list of publications and not bow to Leonard is beyond comprehension. I t was gut·s y of Davi to hav that published and I wonder if it generated any flak? . They might tart treating him as they did Juanita . Davis told me about Glen Row replacing Don Schmidt and said I shouldn't have any trouble in obtaining th ir blessing for the quotes I want. When I am sure that I have th mall~ I ' ll ask them . r · had one contact :with Glen Rowe and found him very cooperative and sharp as well . Didn't I send you a list of the Lot Smith letters I have? I just counted my in x and it comes to 122~ . Speaking . of LS, I just received the .lat st di tion of the Lee family newsletter and t y ar·e sending a J-woman t am of r searchers east to -do .genealogical work pn the Le, Doyle, mith, and 1 t d lines . One of the three is Carmen R. Smith. The quarterly d vote ea ~ issue to one of ·Lee's wives. This on was .about Agatha Ann Wools y. A you know, Catmen descend- from both ,· John D. and Loto nc you elected to strain your cred'lity by reading D.W. Jones, I recommend you balance that .• ego-maniac by reading the A. W. Ivins journal of th 1875-76 mis ion. - Jones was so . authoritarian th t the party ref sed to ravel horn with him . Daniel Wells ch wed him out and h rode alon between the Little Color:ado and Kanab. Henry Boyle doesn':t help his image by relating the rooking ·~e gave the Indians in So . Arizona . I think you ill enjoy my remarks re ·-· Bro . Jones. I don't condemn Fr hoff G. Nielson but I do expose the fact that he was not the human_i tariat, he profe s d to be , 0 • ,• )< Apparantly I didn ' t ma ke myself clear . It seemed to me that your phr ing re successful LDS wast o much like comparing apple and orang s . Sin Mormons are Americans , • their peopl~ - of high . leader$hip sbould be rated with Jews, Catholics, Protestants , etc . I have never seen figures compiled on which faith has the highest percentage of leadership people or universit~-trained people, but doubt the LDS would exceed the Jews,or Ameri ansl\!\,~ Japanese . .These qualities. to me , are individual characteristics and unrelat d to faith . or politics . If I ever sa a rating of faith against faith , the first thing I would ask would be the faith of the compil r because it would have to be out-and-out propaganda. Proselyti like selling !aut mobiles -basic truth can be, and usually is , i stretched shamelessly in · the effort to convert~ . . I think the pendulum of publi opinion is beginning to swing aw y from the criminal toward the vi tim, and· Go tz personifies it . In tim this will carry over to the attitude of Jurors . Our court system b·a di'y needs to be modernized . Enjoyed you clips. Best regards , . P. T. Reilly Dear George., March 7., 1985 I received your letter Feb.19 and the following clipping three days later. They haven't been answered before this because I have been so miserable. I broke a rib behind my right pectoral muscle and can•t cough., sneeze, or take a deep breath. If I happen to roll on my right side in bed, I come awake in a hurry so my sleep is all screwed up. You might remember that I have sent you several clippings on the Spurlockso I wa s sure you knew them because they have been ranching there a long time and were in your country. I haven't heard from Carmen or Owen Smith for a long time. I got a letter or two and arranged an appointment. They breezed in., set up a tape recorder, and then began interviewing . I read mentions of them in the Lee Newsletter. I doubt they ever completed a book on Lot. I'll pass on anything I hear. It is quite simple why I don't buy your thesis of Mormons being superior to the rest of Americans. In the first place, no group of any nation should even think they a~e superior because that infers that their distinguishin g characterist ic is what makes them superior--and that is wishful thinking. In this case, you regard LDS as superior because they are LDS. I don't understand this. Any group that excludes blacks is going to look good compared to any group that does not exclude .them. It is the large numbers of blacks that pull American averages so low. By your reasoning., the KKK also is superior., ·and you can't sell that crap. If we exclude blacks, I doubt that Mormons could . be distinguished from any other part of the white population. If we look at figures on world education, we find that Americans rank near the bottom compared to Europeans, and I think this is true. The Dayhuff diatribe in the Feb.17 issue of the Tribune is so ridiculous that it is difficult to take it seriously. As you say. parts of it are downright stupid. I'd like to see him live for a month in Mexico and see how they treat gringos, and he'd change his tune. As far as I am concerned, these sanctuary people now on trial are guilty of treason and are in V}Olation of their country's laws. I hope they throw the book at them all. The labor unions got the minimum wage raised so high that few will pay it because marginal labor isn't worth it. Wetbacks take many of these jobs at less .money and we cry about having 35 percent black teenage unemployment . If they knocked a buck or _.;.· a buck~ fifty off the minimum wage. we'd see both problems . assume a better balance. Third Wor1a ·countries don't produce liberators such as Bolivar or Zapata any more because it is so much easier to enter the U.S. illegally and run away from the home problem instead of solving it. If the U.S. taxpayers will install bilingual education. voting instructions. , tests for gov't jobs, etc. why should education improve south of the border? I read where it cost California more than 20 million to print bilingual ballots in the last election. If a gringo can't speak Spanish in Mexico he is out of luck. Any way you look at it, Dayhuff is an idiot. Your mention of Will Lund stirs my m mories., and I well recall that day. It was in the old church office building and the offered facilities were in Marilyn Siefert•s orr·ce. At first I thought they put me there to keep an eye on me but I gradually realized they had no facilities for visiting researchers. later Michael Quinn and Ray -T aylor worked alongside of me and four of us made the place quite crowded. On the day you bring up., I was studying the journal s of Apostle Abraham H. Cannon and Lund peered over my shoulder and blew his topo His eyes blazed as he said, "You aren't supposed to be reading that!" I was amazed as I didn't consider anything in it to be sensitive. He really lit into me so I made no effort to argue. N~rilyn came over, took him by the arm, patted his shoulder and said, "It's all right, Brother Lund, it's all right." Previously he had required me to show him everything I hadcopied ,a nd h e kept the handfull of pages overnight. He was wierd. ¥ Several years prior to that I had become acquainted with Wes Williamson. a great grandson of John D. Lee who had married Will Lund's niece. Wes was desc nded from Lee via Polly Young, Lee's 14th wife. He found out on his weddin~ night that his wife was epileptic when she had a seizure. He never forgave her or her family for concealing tnis fact. Epilepsy was in the Lund family. Despite this they had several children but I think it led to hi becoming alcoholic. He treated his .wife like a dog. I have seen hi get drunk., hold a steak knife at hr throat, and tell her., "Shut up. woman., I am your president." The Greene family., who operated Cliff Dwellers at Marble Canyon., told me he di4 this a couple of times in t~eir~restau rant. He dressed western, wor.e ' two pearl handled six-shooters ', and would strut around Lee• s Ferry as if he owned the place o He got drunk, lost one o~ the guns between the ferry and the highway. Onee he sn:owep up in a pickup., made Sana ride in the back. She bounced out on that rbugh road and he didn't even know he had lost her until he got -t;;o Cli -, f Dwellers. He got so drunk once that he .pa~sed out on the floor of the NPS ranger's trailer and spent the night on the floor. He was a real character. He bragged to me about s~eeping in his car at Mountain Meadows. He ·said, "And nothing happened! .. . He thrust a number of his ptctures on Juanita which she used in her Mliti~I book. His car is pictured ~oppo ite p.BJ. One can tell from the captions that he didn't know much, ~f anfthing about either the ferry or NllvI . : We have the •weet aroma of citrus blossoms now. but still have plenty of oranges an; grapefruit on the trees. A few plants ' i~ our spring garden broke though today even tho it was cloudy. We .had a week of .nice weather -about 80- but it has been gr~~ all of thi~ week. I enclose a few clips but nothing exceptional. Benson is still in overdrive. 'Keep your eye on the L.A. mayoral election where a white ·s challenging Bradley, a black. Best regards, P . T. 11 Reilly P.S. I hope you don't misconstrue my remarks re education. Of course I realize your church admits blacks but how many black teenagers~are . LDS? Probably less than one tenth of one percent. SLC is re~atively free of black teenage problems so you have no idea what people in LA .• Pasadena, Seattle or dozens pf other large cities with black ghettos , face. Neither do I say th-ere are, no good Mr,rmon scholars because ther,e are and some of them are highly respected. I've been told that Leonard Arrington got a standing ovation at one of the last WHA annual meetings. The fact that I can't see Mormons as a group rating any higher in American educat~on doesn't mean that I rate them any lower than any other white group. Complete aasimulation into American society has cpme f~r since th@ 1840s and I'drl'ke sea ~R!ttrend continue, especial y while espousing tue impor~ance o ne rami~y • I doubt there are as many live-in situations among Mormon ·couples as , there are in non-Mormon. to March 22. 1985 Dear Georg• I enjoyed your letter and conten.ts which were received March 29. One thing you have not mentioned is hbw your live-in couple is making out so far as you are concern d. You asked about Sun City. The population is about 48,000 when everybody is here, ·and that means late Sept. to mid-May. We have a definite snowbird element. During -the hot summers the population is cut nearly in half. Size is about 9000 acres, or a strip J to 4 miles wide .by 1-0 miles long (N & S). There are 9 full size golf courses, 9 recreation outlets, ·33 churche ta synagogue, and about ' that many S&L or banks. Lots of money her. When we bought in 1971 we were told that 85 percent of purchasers write a, check to pay for · tl\eir homes. The rest go on terms. At that time the population was about 20,000 and t e area about half the size -it is now. After Sun City sold out, about 8 years ·ago, The Del Webb co. _op•ned Sun City West to. do it all over again • . ~rices "there run from $J8,000 to ' $127,QOO -last time I looked. but they had -' a few at ·~ $400,000. To get a :, ·BR,2 bath house today (what we have) would cost us $127,ooo ·at least~ Sun City is the cleanest town .we ev r saw, ie quiet, taxes are low because there is no city gov't or school district. Practically no crime and it's safe to walk anywhere. day or night. Maricopa County maintains streets, · We love it. police. and fire protection l I note yo~ had i no comment about the newly appointed Church Historian. At ,least ·h• ~is ~'. only., .57, out·:.. even so is . . lew man on. ·tfie . tC>tem pole for ·.-·· apostolic :_ st~rtiiing. , Is ·~ e a·•.'. ;rrBT-·;:m~n'h ,. o: -I~ : · I don't .have time to .read "- mags bu.t 1•11 tr~,.: to get· hold bf -t he Rosten • • · · : , .·'i .· 'for Feb. _; ... ';·, ln R.rl. article ' : = ,i. • ' 1 I t is fJ"esh ,. in , )' ;...,_ . my memory,; ho~ ·s'i1ocke,d ·:· I ·was . to ~.' learn- that Alcoholics Annoymous .had a ehapter ir1 Kanab and · had Jbeen op•ratihg for years. Dope is ttte same. .It is even rampan-t in Es·c,alarite and they - busted a couple . of pedd'lers -at Marble Canyon two years -ago\. Times have changed. I think movies and TV have a . high degre·e of responsibility. -.· Both · are · · · great level.e rs of society. i 1 What i~ y~ur -,o pinion of . :~he Sarftuary tnove~ent? A group of · Jesuit priests came -out for it. Trials"'are underway in Ariz., N.lVl. and Texas an(). these religious, moralistic nuts aren't a bit abashed about breaking their country's . laws to continue bringing in p ople _fro Mexico · and Central America. I hope they throw the _b ook at them. As ·', I .see it, tne best argument agains't ·BY' s clai ·t o .statesmanship 'Was whe{l · ~e tock his people ·. out - Qf Americam society ·' ins·t ·e ad , of remaining, backing off frem the adversarial stance, 11nd ·solv:ing _: his problems on the grQund. ~, If it ;: hadn't be'en• fo:r. the.··u.nd·ereove,r ·Mormon, Thomas •' L. Kane, BY probably . WOVlld ·: n.o t• ,h ave aeoepted . Cummings •·_a,nd ':-led his Saints into a blood b~th. The ' Mormons finally came back into tl)e -eoeiety t~ey walk~d oµt ot ·-nd ;today are almost part of the -u.s. • One of these years the Fourth .of J&ly ,will be ·accepted as well ~is ·the··24th in Utah. 1 ~ ·- ,~ •! - " J, f 'fh~ Blacks ar~ :inB;king . ~he same· mistake tp.e Moraons ~did 150 years before them~-,.\tmphasizing . their ... diffetrences wiih the'~ dominant social "'if r f :.•;• .· •~~:. • \o ,..:' ' 1, •[ • I ·~ .. \ . l' :,.. 3 :/ - elements instead of stressing how well t~ey have absorbed them. As long as the u.s. is strong. we have nothing to fear from the Soviets. Sure,- it is a waste of resources but there is no other way. They will crack (I hope) before we do. I look for Soviet moves against Pakistan and Iran 'before too long, but they are getting extended, It took Rome a thoasand years to fall, I see the Soviets beat the Saints in- solving the problem of geriatric leadership. Fate seems t -o muddle just about every good phase of history by having half~baked versioM appear on tne market before a definitive work appears, but don't worry about it. Best regards, P. T. Reilly April 19, 1985 Dear George, We certainly see the basketball situation from the same rock. Of course if the boobs who_patronize the games would find better ways to blow their money, the take would not be as great. TV has had a major impact on inflating salaries of all athletes. Several teams, however, are losing money and like the USFL, it is a question of how long they are willing to do so. I wish Steve Young had signed with the NFL instead of going for those theoretical millions. You asked about receipt of your letter. You wrote it and mailed it on April 12 and I received it Monday the 15th. How about doing me another favor? Please call the Geneal. Soc. and ask if the U.S. 1910 Census is available to the public. It should be, but everything connected with the Gov't slips its schedule. A look at this would be a main reason for my going to SLC. We have not refined any d.ates for the trip yet so I suggest you plan to get your other eye fixed for your own convenience and te disregard my visit. There are about 150 pages of TS that I would like you to read but I also want some discussion and your point of view. Susie should complete the chapter on the polygamous era this weekend. (Final typing of last draft). Then I have to get the thing xeroxed. which means shopping around for a decent price. A colleague gets good copy for J¢ a page in San Diego bat I'm not there. Right now a ballpark g·u ess might be mid-May for the trip. Recent catalogues from the Utah State u. have been soliciting manuscripts but I am a little leary of that press. What is your opinion of it? I imagine Chas Pis one of their readers~ Have you had a chance to look at Leonard A• s BY'? I would think it would be up to his usual standard and probably the best thing yet on the subject. It is getting so an author has to promote a book as well as write it. Have you picked up any opinions from the HDC brethren on it? It is amazing how this African relief thing is sweeping the western nations. Africa has the highest birth rate, the greatest corruption. and the least ability to feed themselves of any part of the w~rld. Look at how the Communists are seizing the supplies and using our aid to meld political opinions, and our suckers continue to pour their resources to them. The trouble is political, first, and economic. second. The do-gooders like to think they are doing good but I fear it is wasted. Of course the Blacks are in the forefront to help African Blacks, regardless of who the aid actually helps, We can be sure that little of the aid gets through to help those who need it. The Communist gov'ts don't need it but grab it off. I say to send the food with enough military force to take it through the Ethiopian troops to the people in the north who are anti-gov't. D ve Menkes finally did visit me. Said you recommended me to him. Also sai.cL I moved him forward about 4 years. He was here April,. Had a nice letter from Helen Warr. Let me know when you plan to have your eye worked on and it may help to refine our travel dates. Don't forget the 1910 Census -and thanks for the help. Best regards, P.~,~M'" T~~~-¼ Ji <..,A&~-~ ;~ t P. T. Reilly Dear George, May J, 1985 Thanks for your letter of April 26 which I received three days later. We were happy to hear that the 1910 Census is available, and we were all set to head your way until we found out that the month of May will be devoted to Susie's getting a root canal job on a molar. This throws my travel plans into limbo until the dental work is out of the way. Dove Menkes is a non-practicing orthodox Jew, a computer expert, and head of the department at Hughes. He doesn't know much about ~e~ons but is very interested in Mormon involvement with ~owell in the Grand Canyono He is sharp and a hell of a researcher. Really digs deep and I don't mind helping people of his quality. It is not all one-sided, either, as he just made me a present of nearly 1000 pages of xerox of Bleak's books A and Band the Caroline s. Addy thesis on Bleak, submitted at BYU in June 1953. He got these at Dixie College and it must have cost him plenty. They charged me ten cents a page in the past. How I have yearned to have my own copies of Bleak,and I have I ~have spent days hand-copying specific entries. His name is DOVE, pronounced as you would Cove except substituting D for c. He does a lot of lone hiking in the Grand Canyon. I was very impressed with Michael Quinn and think he would be a hell of an asset to the history department of any school. He is more honest than Dean May although I am surprised he wound up an objective article on polygamy by bearing his testimony. Maybe it will hold the dogs at bay for a while. What is your opinion of the latest Martin Harris letter? Seems to me it makes Fawn Brodie's interpretation look better and better. If they didn't print this in the Tribune, I'll get you a copy. The faithful will be mighty critical. May ushered in a heat wave about ten degrees above normal and the first three days have been 100 to 103 in Phoenix. If it continues it will knock hell out of our garden. A .ard wind removed most of the blossoms on our tangelo tree but didn't affect · the others. If your authorities traded McConkie for Oaks, I'd say the Mormons cheated the Lord but benefitted themselves. Maybe the trend will continue with the next elevatioQ. Your recommendation of the Quinn article on polygamy inspires me to subscribe to Di· logue if I can get that issue. ~hich one was it? It would be a real chore for me to read much more than I do now. but I'm tempted. As it is, I write text all day and · correspond in as much of the evening as I can stand. I still fall behind. As I get older, I find my amount of rewrite increasing, despite proof-reading by both of us. As I have said before, polishing is an infinite job but worth it in the end. I'm sending you some more Benson~ articles from England and LosAngeles. The situation :.n LA is grim with gangs of black hoodlums mugging and robbing on the city buses. They refuse to pay fares and do nothing but make trouble. Hope ~alt lake City never gets a black mayor. Best regar~s, F. T. Reilly • Dear George, July 28, 1985 If all went as scheduled, you had your right eye implant las t Thursday. We hope it went well . and that you wind up with 20-20-vision in b0th eyeso Yes, I was aware that a Tanner was among the escort BY provided fon Col. Kane but I have never read a journal of the trip. Have you ever made a typescriptJ2 This was a well planned and executed affair_. The: cave outside of Las Vegas is still known as "Dr. Osborn's Cave... Ray:, Taylor claims his grandfather was present when Kane baptised someone • . If you are on dead center with the Crandell couple, why don't you have your nephew Carl Tanner send me ·directions for finding them and I'll see what I can do when we go north. We may hold off until fall as I'm still up to my · neck. If I were 15 years younger I'd get a word. processor:. The one recommended runs about $17,000 and would save considerable time in the editing and polishing, etc. A point that I make in my work is that when the bridge was built: 4.5 miles below Lee's Ferry it brought a new place name- Marble Canyon- to the area and Lee's Ferry no longer was a link in the pioneer transportation system. The same thinm.-happened at the Tanner Crossing when the . bridge was built over the Little Colorado and Cameron came into beingo Of course the Hopi name for the Tanner Crossing was ignored by the Whites, and it had been used for centuries when the Hopi traded with the Supai. OK, I won't bother to gather the Tanner miningrrecord but if you need it, you know where to get it. He filed most of his claims in Prescott, later transcribed from Yavapai County to Coconino. I don't think the crackdown on the Emma .authors is puzzling at a~l. First, they are women and not supposed to venture beyond the Relief Soc• iety. Second, they tell too much truth and didn't clear it with churchmen before going ·to press. It must be very discouraging to be a brainY;., honest, objective LDS female researcher and writer under presentt policy. When we look at Arrington's case, one doesn't even have to be female. I don't mind getting the Lighthouse Ministry material as long as they don't expect me to join their crusade. It remains a wonder to me that people become so involved, they refute so vigorously. They have the negative zeal of the missionary, which to my way of thinking is building or tearing down. I'd rather see religious beliefs remain personal instead of being centereq. on the building of group power. Look whatt fanaticism has built in the Holy Lando I am enjoying Machael Quinn but am taking my time since you said no hurry to return. He has to be one of the best · LDS scholars. By the way, how did the Hafens rate among the faithful? They were very objective and didn't peddle the line. As of now we may go north, at Least to SLC, in Sept. or Oct. and I'll check the location of the Gen.Saco when I get there. I hope parking is no greater problem than in the past. If it wasn't such a problem at U of U I'd bring Ev Cooley some material,but it is simply too much of a hassle to do them a ·favor, so I'll probably put it elsewhere. I'm glad we traveled when we did as prices have advanced so steeply the last couple of year~. Decent motels run 45 to 60 bucks per night and food continues to go up. Hope you have a normal recovery and 8 ~ellent results fro operation. Best regards, C P. T. Re'illY\ Dear George, August 6, 1985 I received ¥our quickie August 3. It had been so long since I have hea~ Louetta's tape that I had to replay it before I could answer. Had to put in new batteries and finally ran it last night. The tape was most emphatic about how BY gave JSB the business re his property, the marriage of Rachel, Brown's dislike of Lot Smith, etc. The only thing about polygamy was that she mentioned her father's wives, and said people today aren't good enough to practice it. I doubt that Bro. Quinn would derive much from this tape. You asked about half or more of the questions , but neither of us brought up the subject in which you are now interested . We didn't distinguis h ourselves as interviewers. I can't do it today or tonight, but I seem to remember that Helen Sindar had something to say on that subject. I haven't made transcrip ts of either Louetta or Helen, but will when I get time. My tape recorder is a reel-type , runs at 1 7/8 inches per second. This Norelco was the latest thing when I bought it about 1960, but reel-type recorders have been replaced largely by cassette recorders . I should update my equipment but it's rather late in the game, and most of the oldtimers you and I are interested in are gone. Even so, I have some choice tapes. I later thought you and I were remiss in not taping a series of these old people when we had the chance. Louetta's tape runs about an hour. Susie and 1 could transcribe it in about a week if we could spend two hours an evening on the job. It is a two-person operation , with one to play, stop, rewind the tape, and advance, while the other writes. Then it has to be typed. Will get on it if you need it. Let me know. Had a letter from Gregory C. Thompson of the U of U Special Collectio ns. He said U parking is much better now and they will validate my ticket. Best regards, P. T. Reilly Dear George , August 29, 1985 Your letter of Aug. 26 was receive d the 29th. I'll reply at once I have an obitua ry that might explain part of your problem re the as crande lls. I was awaitin g your reply to my letter of August 6 as signal that you had recove red from your eye surger y. Howeve r, you a expres sed doubt that it was your turn to write, so my letter must be lost on your desk again. I say this becaus e I told you about Louett a's tape and you didn't mentio n it. Appara ntly the Crande lls no longer live where . you though t they did are in a Mesa rest home with no listing in their name. Do you thinkbut Mrs. Jay Crande ll could be Alice Hatch Crande ll of the obitua ry? This thing is so vague that we should obtain more detail from your nephew Carl Tanner . There is no Jay Crande ll or a John M. Crande ll listed in the Mesa phone book. It seems to me that Carl Tanner has to give data to make the Crande ll connec tion. Do you have Carl's addres s more in Taylor ? Thank you for the date of mid-Oc tober for the G.S. move to new quarte rs. I had heard October ., and had no idea how long the place would be cl.osed Maybe we will come up there beforde 1id-Oc t. but hate to stop my work at . this time. 1~m on the append ices, making charts , maps, plats, etc. 1 Glad that your eyes are those of a much younge r ~an and don't blame you for being thrille d. You are in remark able condit ion for your age or even 20 years younge r. Many people come unglued much sooner . I will settle on a publis her soon. I wasn't asking about USU as a prime candid ate, but they sent out a reques t for manusc ripts and I wonder about them. I would hesita te to have it turned loose in Utah and I edwould never give up the right to pass on any change s. My colleag ue John Hoffman couldn 't get such a clause for his Arches so he said to hell with them and set up his own company. He is in the second edition , and severa l somebo dies are kicking themse lves. I am not up on the variou s LDS confli cts except in a broad sense but can see so many strugg les going on betwee n the variou s elemen ts of most church es that it is only normal for the Saints to have them. at the Cathol ic opposi tion to the Papal policie s on birth contro l,Look abortio n, and marriag e A good friend in Boise just told me how disturb ed he and his son are becaus e the four grandc hildren are all live-in s. I can't figure how a gal could be dumb enough to be a live-in any more than a plural wife. This live-in situati on is pandem ic at presen t and affect s many good familie s who appara ntly provid e good homes for their young rebels I thinK. the Mormons might be ahead of the Jews in this as we have known of. Jewish live-in s. One did marry the gal (a Gentil e) later. Your report· of having a good supply of fresh vegeta bles makes We still have orange s and grapef ruit but both have been on the long and are good only for juice. We are having a heat wave. Had one in June but then it cooled but now it is back. It is 106 on our patio at J:JO PM, and us drool. trees too off nicely is 6 to 8 degrees hotter in Phoenix. I don't know why they take the official temp at Sky Harbor with several hundred acres of black, heat-holding asphalt around. Is Sunstone as liberal as the Dialogue people? I got ,another blast from the Lighthouse Ministry but must wonder why those Tanners bother to bring objectivity to their fundamentali st brethren. It is good to kn~w that the upper echelon brethren are aware that they are not answering all questions. The Pope has to face the same thing. We in the SW are facing the same thing the South Africans have been facing for 200 years -massive immigration by other non-native peopleso Now the intruders want to run the country! Hispanics now are the majority people in So. Calif. although SE Asians and Blacks are fighting them for control. So. Africa could have lived with the few natives that were there when the Dutch came, but they allowed unrestricted immigration and now Whites are a minority, even tho they have the best government on the continent. Best regards, P. T. Reilly Dear George, October Jl, 1985 Just when I was beginning to become worried about you, your letter and enclosures were received Oct.25. Then, five days later your envelope containing the clippings of the presidential news conference re the recent explosive events. Thank you for sending them to me. I read each account with interest, but don't have much idea of who is trying to do what to whom unless we conclude that Bro Hoffman might be a slippery, double-dealing SOB who thought his pigeons were about to get out of hand. ~erhaps the faithful will conclude the Lord detonated the last bomb to punish a sinner. Whatever, it seems to bring the 1870s up to date in the terrorist fashion. Maybe the PLO does not have a monopoly on terrorist activity The name of Don Schmidt came up. Davis Bitton told me he retired and another man holds his job. Perhaps he merely moved up to a more selective position. I thought he was too young to retire. . I was disappointed that you didn't comment on the clipping I sent you of the Tanner (who resembles you) who was led to an opening in some ruins by a guide and came out with some ancient writings. The paper sure gave him some ink. In my opinion men are more avid for hunting deer than those of any other state. I have flown to St.George on the day before the season opened and seen campers bumper to bumper from LA thru Las Vegas., to be dispersed in the Utah Mts. Your state really raised the out-of-state hunting fee but it didn't stop them. It's bad enough on Buckskin Mt. That was a good fate for your deer rifle-)ce.ep it in the family .• No doubt about it--the media people oierdo every t ~to~y that breaks. At that, tho, the boys were easier on Hinckley, O~ks, and Pinnock than the Wash. gang is on Reagan. They were more respectful., too. They even tried to make Reagan the villain in forcing the pirates to Italy. What a sorry lot are those degenerate Romans. They appear to be a bunch .of Mussolinis, and exist in varying degrees of wimphood, Think you might enjoy Steve Benson's views of recent events. He gets off some good ones. Hope the brethren don't conclude he is too disrespectful. Were you not due to have your other eye receive an implant about . this time? This is a very common operation and a chap I know said it is no harder to take than getting your teeth cleaned, despite being apprehensive at the beginning. It appears that the new 3enealogy Library did not get dedicated on Oct.2J but on a Sunday, Oct. 27. Anyway, it should be all set by now. T~anks for the clip. Hope they are organized and open for business. Did you ever make connection with the Heber couple about Seth B? I don't follow the football teams as I once did. When I played, the average weight was around 200 pounds and the largest AA linemen were about 220. Now they average aboui 280 and run 6 ft. 6 to 8 inches. No shortage and all schools have all the animals they need. The main problem seems to be that some can read and believe what the journalists say about their talents. Getting the players into an underdog frame of mind is the job of every coach. In time these semi-literates go to the pros and command salaries they aren't worth, and the sports-struck public pays the bill. Keep well. Hope you enjoyed the deer liver. Best regards., F .T. Reilly Dear George, December 3., 1985 Yours of the 14th was received four days later. I hoped to get the Tribune's account of the change in leadership but you sent the Kennedy-~onroe stuff insteado We have very low opinions of theentire Kennedy clan, and ~onroe appears to have been only a high-priced call girl, available to high rankers. I always considered Robert to be a very dangerous man and think Sirhan should have been given a medal and a bed chamber full of krugerrands for knocking him off. FDR lost a lot of prestige in my book by appointing old Joe to be Ambassador to Great Britain. It's a wonder the Brits accepted him. The whole damn clan is a bunch of cheap woman-chasing grafters, and old Tip is just about as bad. Well, old ETB sure missed his cue to greatness. All the old goat had to do was say he had a revelation that he should not take the job of president and break that awful cycle of one geriatric passing the baton to another. But he didn't have the guts. Had he been that courageous he would have carved a place for himself in church history. I agree; he is not in a position to be of much influenceo He reminds me of the booze that Bp. Wm.D. Johnson sold to Jesse N. Smith, who found it so diluted that it was "powerless for good or evilo" ETB is in the same position as the bishop's booze. Yes, our weather maps have indicated that your area has really been catching hell., with new records being set. The older I get., the more I appreciate warm climates. The big thing here (really of national interest) is the sanctuary trial in Tucson. I hope they convict those leusy do-gooders and throw the key away. What gives those bastards the right to obey what laws they like and disregard the ones they don't? What happened to the American custom of changing laws legally by a majority of voters? Of course they are a noisy, hypocritical minority which would get its butt kicked if it came to a vote. Now the Los Angeles City Council passes a resolution declaring ~Ato be a city of Refugefor Central American refugees. They only have 1 to 2 million there now, so who speaks for the poor taxpayers who support those seeking better economic conditions?I'd like to see the Gov't come down hard on them/ Don't be too critical of Reagan. Just be thankful we don't have a do-gooder such as Carter in there who would give away the store. Our system does not develop statesmen., only politicians, and the advent of TV has brought a certain type of politician to the fore. Remember it was the TV debates that enabled JFK to beat Nixon, usher in LBJ and the Great Societyo Wasn°t it awful?? I shudder at the dogfight we face in 1988. I doubt that a really good man would take the lousy job., powerful as it is. The dumb voters seem intent on insuring that no changes are made by electing members of the House and Senate from one party., the executive from the other. A parlimentary style of government isn't much better but at least a popular gov't can go in a single direction. Do you know much about Gary Topping of USHS? I let them copy a tape I have providing I got a transcript., and have developed a running correspondence with Gary. He appears to be a }hD from Oregon and rather smooth. I assume he is LDS or he couldn't get a job there. He seems to have a talent for working both ends against the middle. There is a rather nasty situation in LA whereby the teamsters and meat-cutters are on strike against the major super markets. 95percent of the stores are not affec~:d but Orange County has had serious trouble. Truckers packing guns., tire st~skings., etc. Keep warm. Best regards!.,_ q:? r h T. ieilly ·*. . Dear George., 9 December 1985 Although the holiday season primarily is a time for the renewing of family ties, it also is one of reaffirming the bonds of friendship that exist between colleagues who respect each other. You are one of the more fortunate people who are able to maintain an independent way of life, yet have family members close by. Your affection for them, and their respect for you, is outstanding despite your fundamental beliefs being somewhat apart from the ruts of the faithful. Any non-Mormon Caucasian who comes from the age-old background of a strong family or clan has to admire the Mormon attitude of solidifying the family unit while it seems to be falling apart in many sections of our society. I have often thought that if the B of M had been directed more at family relations, their preservation and strengthening, the appeal of the LDS religion would be many times what it is now. December usually is a bad month for us. The number of little diversions increases and very little constructive work is produced. This bothers a single-minded bloke like me who is forced into diffusion and in becoming, at least for a time, less single-minded. Prior to Thanksgiving I was starting the outline for my last chapter of my second book and I hope to wind it up early in 1986. While the work is being considered by publishers, we intend to get out of our literary ruts and take a trip, possibly to SLC, and I will bring a chapter or two for ·*. .~~~t9~t~lt:<:r~n~ =:' you have a VCR, but if you have access to one I will bring a copy of the tape that I Helped KfNX TV make last year. It runs 26 minutes. Gary Topping, believe it or not, had never heard of Frihoff G. Nielson and I suggested he write Lurana Nielson, the widow of Ellis, at their fhoenix home. I also suggested he telephone you for some firsthand information ~n the Little Colo. Mission. This all grew out of his edtting of the Maguire venture in the most recent issue of UHQ. If you can be patient with me a little longer, I'll return the issue of Dialogue you so kindly lent me for the Bitton article in January after the mail rush is over. It also will give me more time to complete ito I just read a review of Brigham Young and the Expanding American Frontier, by Newell Bringhurst, pubo by Little, Brown & Co. The book was distributed to college bookstores December 2 but not yet to book sellers. It sounds greato What do you hear about it? It should make a stir in LDC circles. The author teaches history at College of the Sequoious, 170 miles north of .A. The nightly weather charts indicate you are having more traditional Christmas weather than we areo Regardless, Susie joins me in wishing you a warm, family style Christmas and the kind of new year you most desire. May you reflect on past joys while maintaining future hopes. Our love and respect, P. T. Reilly 26 December 1985 Dear George, Your letter of Dec.11, mailed on the 12th, was not received until the 21st, due no doubt to the Christmas rush. My thanks for the fine clippings, especially that excellent review of the BYU book. I like Goodman's characterizing BYU as an academic Siberia, although it is their right to have it that way if they want it. You remember correctly1 I did research the Ben Cluff expedition. If you ever get a ohance, I urge you to listen to the tape they made of Roy Woolley, the son of Kanab Stake President B.D. Woolley. Roy told it like it was, which displeased the BYU staff. When I was there in 1966, a staff member showed me the Roy Woolley tape and a transcript, but recommended against them. later I interviewed Roy in an Ogden rest home and he told me how upset they were when he made the tape. It's a wonder they didn't destroy it. Roy related some very hard truths such as not having supplies except for the "hierarchy" of about six. The rest had to scrounge. Roy said they stole Sister Bmett's eggs, a chicken or two, and whatever else they could find. So what1 I enjoy working at BYU, tho not to attend school there. The McLellin papers, bembings, white salamanders, etc. have faded drom the Arizona scene. In general, the comment I get from out-of-state, except for Utah, is on the comio side and is not taken very seriously. You do very well about your choice of clips. I like the SLC views of new books about LDS, any changes in basic church policy, be it positive or negative. I am with you 100 percent re the NBA salaries. Only fools patronize those overpaid goens, and their salaries will become realistic only when people stop going to the games. Phoenix prices are $15 but it costs $35 to see the LA Lakers in LA. People ought to boycott them. I have never been to a NBA game. A colleague, John Hoffman, wrote a splendid little book on Arches N.P. He did good research, provided footnotes, etc. Now a paperback outfit, K.C. Publications of las Vegas has used his research to produce a book heavy on pictures but with minimum text. This is in keeping with the U.S. trend that more people read only on the 5th grade level, are spoiled by TV and will buy a cheapie in preference to a good book. K.C. pirated John's book and sells theirs for $3.50 or $4. His sales have fallen to 40 percent of what they were. I would be very upset if those bastards used my research to print a cheapie on Lee's Ferry. I think the only way to beat them would be to print a paperback heavy on pictures with minimum text along with the full version. What do you think? The public seems to reflect our general cultural level or8-society that depends on TV to tell them what to think. Real balmy here, 72 days, and clear, 44 Christmas Eve. e! Best, P .S. A nasty situation has developed in So.Cal, has spread as far as Seattle and N.M., and is certain to reach SLC. Three to,.. five young Blacks, directed by an experienced mind of So. L1A. enter a jewelry store, break the P. T. Reilly cases, grab the valuable stuff, fire a shot or two and leave. They have spent less than a minute inside. The loot is fenced in L.A. A gang of five tried it in Scottsdale but the storekeepers poured out with shotguns, pistols, rifles, and they were cap~ured, the jewelry recovered. Four males 16-20, a female in early 20s. Take time to read the clips.We have to make this too dangerous for them to prac~ice it, leave a few lying in gutters.