P. T. Reilly correspondence with George S. Tanner, 1979

Copies of typed letters from P. T. Reilly of Sun City Arizona, to George S. Tanner in Salt Lake City during 1979, continuing their conversation about Mormon pioneers in northern Arizona and related topics, including their efforts to locate information and historical documents. Topics include the journals of Emily B. Spencer, James S. Brown, Lot Smith, John W. Young's report of the southern route, the Johnson and Nelson families at Lee's Ferry, the diaries of James P. Andrus, and an 1881 journal of Josephine Wood, as well as comments on current events, including polygamous sects, Sonia Johnson, etc. Includes a copy of a letter to George S. Tanner from Karl Larson dated Sept. 27, 1979.

January 9, 1979 Dear George, Please excuse my long silence. This has been a dreary Christmas for us and we'll be some time catching up. Yours of Dec. 17 is at the top of the list. Last March my youngest brother was operated on for a brain tumor. It was found to be malignant and deeply imbedded. They got what they could and gave him six months to a year. He regained some speech but not full useo He started to go downhill rapidly after Thanksgiv ing and we finally were notified early in December. Of course we felt that we should do everything we could because his wife had to have physical help. Money was no problem as he held an excellent job and had plenty of insurance . However, he now is little more than a vegetable and is near the endo One can't tell if he knows one or not. He needs help to walk, etc. His wife's sister and her husband are there now and we are at home trying to catch up while waiting for a telephone call from Californi a. The Journal of Arizona History Came out in the meantime and I enclose a reprint of my article. I am sending one to Chas P. and Don Schmidt at HDC. If UHS doesn't get the JAH in exchange I will send them a copy, tooo Perhaps you could give them a call to find out. The text was cut considera bly to conform to requireme nts of space. Even so, it was the longest article in the issue. I regret that some uneveness results from the reducing. I'd be glad to hear any criticismo Re your letter. We had one item in our paper about the seminary dispute but this seemed to me to have been instigated by some hen house anti-LDS and I have little backgroun d to have much of an opinion. What was it BY said / of some critic? "Tell him to go eat soup with a fork." It sounds like a case of general harrassme nt by some hate-fille d idiot. Heck, the fundamen• talist brethren at Short Creek have been misusing Arizona and federal tax money to support their peculiar views for years but no one gets too concerned. It seems to annoy the loyal LDS more than the non-LDS. I'll say one thing, their young people aren't getting much fundament al education but they are getting educated fundamen tally. Some of the people in the Fredonia sawmill can't even add up their time worked and the LDS have to help them. I doubt that SWK plans to remove to Missouri . Wasn 't Jackson Co. supposed to be the place? Rather I'd give him credit for having foresight to purchase a large chunk of land when it was available . I imagine that it's farmland and bound to be limited in quantity. He can pay the taxes by getting federal payments for something that he probably wouldn't have grown· anyway. No matter what the Saints build elsewhere , I doubt they will ever desert SLCo When I write Don S. at HDC I'm going to give him my list of needs, also will ask if he has the Journal of Emily B. Spencer. Have you ever heard of this? I hadn't until recently but it could be a gem and a good acquisitio n. You might find out if UHS knows about ito OK, I'll ask about the Deseret B of Mas soon as I can, but there is so much piled up here that it will be several days. Mrs . Johnson had a Xmas card waiting when we got home. I enclose a couple of clips but probably there's more in the old papers which I'll scan. This is to let you know we are still alive, and to thank you for the greetings . Best regards, e:r P. T. Reilly LETTER TO CLARE MAXWELL FROM HIS COUSIN 11\i QUEENSTOWt-J, UPON THE RECEIPT OF A SMALL CHECQUE FOR CHRISTMAS. I IRELA t,O, Queens town, lrelond Dece~ er 28, 1939 Dear Cousin Clore: Your welcome letter wos receiv ed ond me ond Aunt Bridge t thonk you kindly for the money you sent. We hod seven mosses soid for your grondf other ond grondm other. God rest their souls. You hove 9one high ploces in Americ o. God bles s you. hope you hove not forsoke n your notive lond. Your cousin Highie I Doughe rty wos hung In London derry lost Fridoy for kil I ing o pol icemon. Moy God rest his soul, ond moy God's curse be on Jimmy Rodger s, the inform er. Mo1/ his soul burn in Hell. God forgiv e me. Times ore not os bod os they might be. The herrin g is bock, ond everyo ne, or neorly everyo ne, hos o boot or on intere st in one, ond the price of fish is good, thonks be to God. The Orangemen ~ore terrib le. They go through the countr y In their lorries ond shoo q5 the poor people down in the fields where they ore workin g. God'sf"'-17 curse on them. Your Uncle Donny took o shot ot one of them yesterd oy from the hedge, but he hod too much to drink ond missed them. God's curse on the drink. Wei I, I hope this letter finds you ond your fomi ly well ond hoppy, ond we oil join in sendin g our best wishes . Moy God bless you ol I. Am sorry you ore not with us. The Dohert ys ore o hundre d strong men now since the best of them stoppe d going to Americ o. They wil I soon c~ver the countr yside. · Fother O'Floh erty, who boptize d your diston t cousin , ond who is now feeble minded , sends his blessin g. Moy God rest you ond yours ond keep you from sickne ss ond su~den deoth. Your cousin , Honoro P.S. Things might be worse thon they ore. Every pol ice borroc k ond every Protes tont Church in the County hos been burned down. Thonks be to God. G'~ ~e------, c Fl~ P01- R ex-? ~~ 17-/ f:? -Ji7Tt TU D 6'S 1 f\J ,..f.F?E?LA"-1 b (J,j l C..ff ~(:~0 ~Hr A. Bo OT tH (? [>1< 5-s~( $ ( -( V A -c- l rJlv 7'tfIs { 3 TE:u E:" COp kJ ~f { <J ( 0 f) 'S ( I\J QA c'E'i' <N Cl'il- I\) Ir/) J<) ' • TTc N () <'.l N \ TH l $. rrr Janua ry 26, 1979 Dear Georg e, the clipp ings Thank you for your kind lette r of Jan. 20. And I found er and didn 't have most inter estin g - read them all. If I were youngbooks , I would buy 99 perce nt of the resea rch done for at least five for a book that would the Mormon Bibli ograp hy, but $150 is quite a bit y years ago it would not get much use. If it had been publi shed twent have helpe d me consi derab ly. secon d week in My broth er is still hangi ng on. Today is the end of r his rally thoug ht gene is an oxyge n tent in the inten sive care secti on. Cance and young s, youth to be a disea se of old age, yet it strik es infan ts,four he goes , When boys. middl e adult s. My broth er is 57, the young est of only the two older ones will be left. days and they even ran an The Singe r affai r made our paper s for about five teste d and found to be in edito rial on it. It said his child ren had been r to have been quali fied the botto m ten perce nt, so Singe r does n't appea I feel sorry tion. educa to offer them anyth ing close to the publi c schoo l could and might cope, n't for all of them. I think Singe r was mala djust ed,shoot him . Anyone stupi d have comm itted suici de by getti ng the polic e tosmart enoug h to know he is enoug h to point a gun at an offic er shoul d be r. likel y to be kille d. Singe r had paint ed hims elf into a corne n Bridg e in the Glad to hear you say that you cross ed the Marbl e Canyo ber 1928 and Novem in sprin g of 1930. The bridg e was opene d to traff icdedic on June 14-15 , ation hundr eds of cars cross ed it befor e the offic ial comment re Your 1929. The old road over the moun tain was a steepellone. area that d calle the Verm ilion Cliff s remin ds me that Thale s Hask "Nova Scoti a." able to locat e the Don Schm idt respo nded with 34 pp . of xerox but was notother were of what I the impo rtant items . Six items were those I sough t, xerox and sposta ge, along had alrea dy copie d. I sent him a check for the Brown treat y with Tuba with my thank s. I am rathe r sure that the J .S. items and proba bly offand his versi on of the early settle ment are vault W. Youn g's trip John on limit s, but I can see no reaso n for holdi ng up read the Br~wnto like I'd over the south ern route (Pear ce Ferry ). But quote d the erhof Brink Tuba treat y. Lot Smith blew his stack when Bp.India ns. Donf S. had no treat y to him when he was tryin g to shaft the ed short of sayin g he know ledge of the Emily B. Spenc er diary and he stopprathe r see it in HDC would would like me to round it up for them, but I about U of U and ing think begin than any other archi ve. Berha ps I shoul d do anyth ing ember non-m a g UHS inste ad. HDC does n't appea r to like havin for meo done have they s for them but I like to recip rocat e for the thing are who h churc the of ds frien It seems to me that they shoul d culti vate I when ago years few a ed not members of the churc h. I was reall y floor made with the funda men~ alists I offer ed them a trans cript of a 6½ hour tapin g I'm glad that they in Color ado City and they expre ssed no inter esto Now are LDS Churc h ren child didn 't! I don't know that Emily B. Spen cer's ter gr oup and splin a to members eithe r: they could be or might belon g unwr itten rule some be to possi bly Don knew what I didn 't. There seems you run into Have ence. about recog nizin g the fact of splin ter group exist this? Don sent me a xerox of a J. W. Young letter of June 2, 1878, even tho I speci fied that the record I wanted began with JWY depar ting SLC on December 8, 1877, going to St.Ge orge, crossi ng at Pearce , and arrivi ng at Sunse t Janua ry 18, 1878. I consid er this the Ferry best nt of the southe rn route . How could he mistak e a letter of June 2,accou 1878 for the one I wanted ? I think you would be very intere in this as well as the Brown items, but I doubt that either of sted us will see them. I could really kick my self for not copyin g the JWY accou nt when I had it in my hands in the Old Church Office Bldg. Rilla Hambl in Lee is gettin g rathe r feeble . She was born 4 May 1884. I hope she makes her next birthd ay but it is doubtf ulo I agree with you that Carte r is weak on foreig n affair s, but who in our countr y isn't? We don't develo p exper tise in this field as the Britis doo We don't even keep strong at home by not being able to curb abuseh in CIA and FBI witho ut emasc ulatin g them to the point of erform ance. The Kent State decisi on made me sick, too. Lairye rs seem non-p to have a strang lehold on our countr yo A few clips for you. May have some foreig n stamps next time. Best regard s, .e:r PTR February 27, 1979 Dear George: Enjoyed your recent letter and clips. Yes, it does seem that with all the talent and money expended on cancer research in the past two decades, we should be closer to a solution. They say cancer is a disease of old age, yet young and middle-aged people come down with it. I wouldn't be too surprised if they don't find a link between it and the great number of food additives used in the last forty years. My brother's wife is about the poorest cook I have ever known and they used many convenience foods. We won't have 99 percent of that crap in our house, and make just about everything from scratch. I think you are correct about Don but I would have felt a little better about it if he had expressed appreciation for my wanting to direct items to HDC. Even though they are reluctant to put appreciation on paper, I'm thick-skinned and still believe that certain material belongs in HDC over other archives. I will say, though, that I don't think the Huntington would ever have messed up the John W. Young file as HDC apparantly did. I also told Don that I am familiar with the Young item, simply did not copy it, and I saw nothing sensitive in it. I further said that I could understand the treaty between J.S. Brown could be a vault item and not available to the likes of meo Their inability to bring it from hiding is pertinent. Someone must feel guilty. I do wish you could see this for yourself. I know this is sensitive! Karl Larson just sent me a copy of his Autobiography. He wants me to review it for one of the Utah publications and I agreed to do so when they ask. Karl has done his best writing in this book, even improving over Erastus Snow. He must be in the last years of his life, which is a pity because he is a man of talent and has more in his system. Here is my plan for the Emily Spencer diary. I will make one trip to the Strip and southern Utah,if gas is available, when I can plant garden at Escalante. Right now there is a foot of snow on the ground up there, and signs of a gas squeeze are present here. Prices are up about a nickel but many pumps in the self serve island are marked "out" in unleaded and regular. Plenty in the full service island at 3¢ more per gallon. I don't know the married name of Emily's granddaughter who has the diary, so I have to do some detective work to find that out first. I have some good sources and think I can do this. Meanwhile another journal has turned up. I have had some interesting spinoff from my Buckskin Mt. article in JAH. One letter was from a Utah woman who has her grandmother's diary of a journey from Pima, Ariz. to Utah in the 188Os. The editor sent me three pages and it is terrific. Her name was Lucretia ____ • The diary was not printable in the form presented and Dr. Sonnichsen gave her my name and the name and address of Everett Cooley. You might give Ev a call and ask if he has heard from Audrey M. Godfrey. I haven't, even tho I wrote her about my willingness to advise her (letter of Feb.?). I'd hate to see a feather merchant such as Crampton get his hooks on a pioneer item of this nature. He probably would goof it up worse than Krinkle did Joseph Fish. Of course I know how those professiona historians hang together and somebody may be trying to booby trap this ole country boy. I have had some unbelieva ble contacts the last ten years. To answer your last question, I think China and Russia are fighting for the control of Asia's rice bowl - So. VietNam and Cambodia. - Russia got VietNam to invade Cambodia, China's ally, and has never given up her thrusts for warm-wate r seaports since the time of Peter the Great. I don't think our media is any smarter about what is going on than our governmen t. As for the mess in Iran, the Moslem East has been trying to overcome the Christian West since the fall of Jerusalem in 614. This lead to the Crusades and the advance of the Moors in Spain. Only the Jews stand with a handfull of Christian Lebanese to bar Islam in the Holy Land now. Well, you and I both think the same about fundamen talists of any religion, and the new rulers of Iran are fundamen talists. We could see a holy war. How about that fundamen talist woman in Pasco, Wash. who threw her two babies into the icy Columbia River? But she had to be crazy besides being fii.ndamentalist . Maybe all fundamen talists are on the far side of sanity. I asked you about Roscoe Tanner being in your clan several years agoo He is from So. Carolina; he's a clean living lad but I don't think he is LDS. You have a copy of my HDC needs. Why don't you discuss the first item (John W. Young report of the southern route to Sunset) with Helen Warr? She got it for me in the old Church Office Bldg . We should be careful not to involve her with present research personnel . Please let me know about Ev Cooley and Mrs. Godfrey, as I would like to gather all known data before the next move. Spring is here. Think we will have peach blossoms this week. the size of marbles and the citrus are all sprouting . Best regards, p. 'r . Reilly Have figs April .5, 1979 Dear Georges Not a great deal has occurred lately. We are waiting for winter to relax its grip on southern Utah and hoping that gas is available so we can do the work on the Strip and plant garden at Escalante in one trip, hopefully in mid-May. This could be cutting it too close on the gas as I expect a major ''shortage" to develop just before school lets out to discourage summer driving. The snow is mostly gone from the flats at Escalante but the ground is in no condition to work. We are very enthusiastic about Karl Larson's Autobiography. It should sell if it were publicized but, as in the case with most privately printed books, it will not get "the treatment" and people will rarely learn anything about it. Many people can identify their own experiences with his, especially those from rural America, and more especially those of rural Mormondom. Karl tells it like it was and many of the faithful will cluck-cluck, even while they know that he speaks truth. But it should appeal to non-LDS as well as the brethren. I recommend your looking at it even tho you don't buy it. My thanks to you for the clippings on the fundamentalist trial. The day after they arrived I heard over KFI in Los Angeles at 4 A.M. that the people charged had been acquitted. Strange to say, the Phoenix papers have carried nothing whatsoever on it, once it started. As I read your clips I thought the prosecution had a very weak case, which leads to the thought that no one, even in SLC, cared much one way or the other. It was similar to gangland rubouts; there are cases where we need more of them since legal execution has been made so difficult by the damn do-gooders. If you saved clippings on the last part of the trial and verdict, I would appreciate having them. We saw the first session of Conference on TV (that is all they showed here) and gave three cheers for the theme. Noted that Pres. Kimball said there are over four million LDS now, and saw a couple of black faces in the choir. It is almost unbelievable but my brother is still clinging to life. If he lasts to April 23 he will have completed 58 years. He has exceeded the maximum of a year when he was operated on in March 1978. The recent bruhaha which the media stirred up on the TMI mess reminds me that I remember some minister thundering from the pulpit, "If God intended man to fly, He would have given him wings." This in a Christian Church just prior to WW I. People have been killed in airplanes and automobiles but we are not going to stop using them. I would think that we should have solved the disposal problem before we built any nuclear plant, but we didn't. That is what worries me. We must have nuclear power and someone will get killed, so what else is "new .. ? I think inflation is the number one problem. I planted our garden yesterday. Still have grapefruit, oranges, and lemons, and a heavy blossoming on all trees. Have figs the size of a fifty cent piece. Grapes look good. Don't know when I'll be able to hand you figs and raisins again - but don't give up. Best regards, PTR - April 20, 1979 Dear Georg e: we still are aimin g You well could be right about the ice age in Utah but potat oes. We have done to be there by May 14 and at least plant peas andplant ing but befor e the this befor e and only twice have had frost after 1 afrai d the gas crunc h sprou ts appea re~. If we wait longe r than that I m will catch up. As it is, we are cutti ng it thin. up to March 17 and Yes, I got the envel ope of clips re the Allre d trial I heard via radio that after day The r. ackno wledg ed it in my next lette . The Phoen ix paper s from L.A. that the suspe cts had been turne d looseict, and you did not send never carri ed a word about the trial or the verd ve that LeBar on peopl e the verdi ct and after math . Do you actua lly belie s out ofthe balan ce to meo were parke d outsi de the juror s' homes? Sam sound polic e prote ction and Can anyon e produ ce proof that the juror s asked for you sent me were refus ed? I just can't belie ve this. Sam is nuts. Yes, a copy of the Taylo r-Cow ley trial . A rare docum ent. icity on Feb. 27 but I sent you the clip about a Mormon objec ting to publ ated the comp laint. I made no comment becau se I did not know whatas motiv thoro ughly as anyon e, also I still don't o I read the Arizo na Repu blic item about anyon e occas ional issue s of other paper s, and I never saw any from the 2-inc h item profe ssing to be a Mormon accus ed of a crime aside threw her baby into tellin g about the funda ment alist woman who alleg edly ment alist Mormon, and the icy Colum bia River . The paper calle d her a funda in the same mold. to me this is not an LDS. Enclo sed is anoth er item arly but I never heard to the edito r regul s. Gibbo ns Frost write s lette rsCerta inly there has been nothi ng in the of Wally Tope or his claim s. comp lainin g to Phoen ix Phoen ix paper to clari fy Fros t's beef. He may becare. about some thing in Show Low but Phoen ix doesn 't How would the repor ter The Mormon ballp layer for Atlan ta is anoth er case.him? I would objec t to have known Bonn ell is a Mormon if he didn 't tell ds, not relig ious reaso ns. women being in a man's dress ing room on moral groun in the men's dress ing For that matte r, I objec t to male repo rters being athle te's priva cy shoul d room s,too. If a Club can't have a press room, thehave been d too much not be invad ed by eithe r sex. The media peopl edo repor ters babie to get have becau se of a fanci ed need for publ icity . Why that hope They d up? their stori es while the athle tes are hot and workestori retir e can they so es some hothe ad will gener ate contr overs y for their me, Bonn ell tried to To Let them wait. to some bar and drink beer. use it for a scape goat. and ion relig his with lity ratio naliz e his mora on, a Cath olic, a Jew, or Nobody cares wheth er this guy or that one is a Morm to a story . Why is Carte r a Druid . Relig ion is merel y infus ed to give heat what he still is a habit ually refer red to as a Bapt ist? I don't care entia lheandis,I'm for deweak do-go oder presi dent. The media is too influ Islan d event . emph asizin g their roles . Look how they overb lew the Three Mile They made news in a dull week. too damned thin-s kinne dlo I think gene rally that the Mormons and Black s are .in effor ts to main tain Both have beat the old perse cutio n horse to death He injec ted his Mormonism inner cohes ivene ss. Look at poor Johnn y Mille r. sition posit ion, is-po ate-h into golf and it place d him in a must -win -to-v indic cons isten tly now r golfe and he could n't stand the press ure. A once- prom ising relig ion witho ut shoot s 5-15 strok es above par. A perso n can live any ion in the news carry ing it as a chip on his shoul der. But then keepi ng relig helps the media pot to boil. I am amazed that Preside nt Kimball would have been placed in a position of having to ingratia te himself with the members hip to survive . Do you mean that there are Mormons who would tear up the procedu re if they didn't like him? The Saints had better learn to recogniz e a good leader when they see one, and are fortunat e enough to have one. To me, he will go down as one of the better preside nts. He and W.W. stepped up to the problem s of their times instead of tiptoein g around them as did their predece ssors. If there is any justice in this world, at least for the LDS, Spencer W. Kimball will outlive Ezra Taft Benson. People like other people who solve problem s instead of passing them along. Truman and Kimball have this charact eristic in common. How about a favor? Can you find out if the Genealo gical Society Library in SLC has History of Clag Tearlaic h, by Col. Maclean of Woodsid e? No date or publish er is known. If they have it, could i ,t be loaned to the Mesa G.S.? more Enclosed are 15 foreign stamps for your collecto r grandson o I have some rily tempora someplac e which I've saved over a lengthy period but they are lost. I'll run across them sooner or later and will send them when I doo You ought to see our garden. Onions are about to go to seed but new carrots, It beets, peppers , zucchin i, lemon cucumbe rs, and cranshaw melons are up. have We any. plant gets too hot for tomatoes to do well here, so we don't a splendid set on grapes and all citrus, with blooms about over. We stripped our last orange tree but have nearly a gallon of juice in the refrig and 20 more for eating. Our grapefr uit should last another month. The Lord appears to be smiling on us even ii we have to pay 75-9¢ for gas. I sent my review of Karl Larson's book to Stan and I suppose it will appear in the next Quarter ly. Karl is a good story teller and his sense of humor is excelle nt. His language might offend some of the really pure, but he records the speech of several levels of society and I say more power to him. I see that Panama is threaten ing to take us to the court of world opinion if we reduce the amount of foreign aid to them. This canal deal becomes more unbeliev able as time goes on and I'll never understa nd it. Can you expafui/n why we have to pay to give it away? That's about it, except that my brother gave up the ghost on April 11- only ten days before his 58th birthday . Best regards, - Jj?T P. T. Reilly May 8, 1979 Dear George: Thank you for y our efforts in G.S. for us. We have a couple of antiquarian book dealers looking but fear we will have to go to Scotland to find the item. With the severe gas shortage in the U. S . coming up, we will consider this option seriously. If we can catch up with the History of Clan Tearlaich, we will see that G.S. gets a xerox copy. In fact, we might pursue this phase further. My own ancestry is quite ordinary with the only prominent fi gure named Old Rough and Ready, or Zachary Taylor. But Susie comes from quite a number of prominent ancestors. Her mother was Mary Alexia Cox MacLean and she belong ed to nine national organizations including Huguenot Society, Society of Mayflower Descendants, Alden Kindred, DAR, New England Women, Daughters of Amer. Colonists, etc. We have No's 1,2,3,4,15 of Cox Families of New England, but are missing No's 5-14 inclusive. Does G.S. have any of these missing numbers? No.1 was published 1899 by Rev. John H. Cox of West Harwich, Mass. No.15 was published in 1904, same man and place. I don't know whether copies of these would help G.S. but the Saints have strong roots in New England and copies of No's.5-14 would help uso We have just decided against risking a trip to the Strip and Escalante. As of today we can get plenty of gas in Sun City at 81.9¢/gal. but the tone of the Lundberg letter which came out yesterday indicated a rapidly worsening condition. We know things will be tight before the end of May, but how far f rom the end is anybody's guess. All of Arizona's gas comes from California. Our problem is not as acute as California's yet but I expect it to get there. The indistrialized world hqs simply produced too many autos in proportion to available fuel. We may be able to make a fall trip if conditions ease. Naturally the weekend joy rides for recreation should take a back seat to really necessary driving. I'm willing to be inconvenienced to keep the wheels turning even tho I'd rather go. Undoubtedly y ou have heard of y our nephew's death but you may not have seen his obituary. Don Carlos even resembles George Shepherd. OK, I'll keep the door open that Sam's assessment of the Al lred affair could be correct. I would say that if this is true, no one really cares if the fundamentalists kill each other off and should not be prosecuted for doing so. I think the main fundamentalist frustration is that no one appears to care whether they live in polygamy or not. Sooner or later there will be a court case regarding inheritance, on the order of the Marvin case. I'm afraid that had I been the judge I would have thrown that one out of court. It degenerated into a question of payment for extended prostitution. Stan Layton wrote me that USU is g oing to publish the Walker Diaries as edited by Karl Larson. This is a g ood one - as important to Dixie as the F. G. Nielson Diaries are to the Arizona Mission. Jay Redd spent a couple of days in St.George to visit his sister on his return to Monticello and reports g ood telephone visits with Juanita and Karl. He had never met Karl and really got his ear bent for 1½ hours. Karl may be g etting senile because he wasn't that way in the past. We all top out. Best regards, PTR June 9, 1979 Dear George, Not a great deal that is new except some clips that you may find interesting, and to thank you for the ones you sent meo Also, we will be going to Utah sometime this year but it may not be until after Labor Day. This will give me more time to unleash my good contacts in So. Utah. Your experienc e with the BYU oral interview reminds me of my taping of Juanita B. We made a very faithful transcrip tion--too faithful, and I am sure that Juanita expected me to clean it up. Editing a tape for a transcription can get sticky and the editor can wind up accused of all sorts of bad things. As Juanita once made a memorable speech and then had published, "Jest A'Copyin' Word For Word," I thought she would be broad minded enough to apply her own rules to herself, but it is apparant she expects two sets of rules to be used. I sent Karl Larson a copy of my review of his Autobiogra phy and he wanted me to soften the remarks about the indexing which was done for him by his lifelong friend, Dr. R. J. Snow of U of u. (Karl has cataracts and can't see the features of a person sitting five feet away). I couldn't do this because anyone with a doctorate should be smart enough to know whether he has expertise in a given field instead of charging ahead like a bull. I didn't mention Dro Snow by name. He could have had all kinds of help had he asked, and the amateuris h result shouldn't be glossed over. May not be politic but that's the way I see it. Now the editor of Jour . of Ariz . Hist . has asked me for a review, even gave me a choice of two. --I agreed to do one. The exposure doesn't hurt but it does slow me down. The Larson book had 781 pp. Don't fret about the poor communica tion in your family. Most families fall in this category. Letter-wr iters are a special breed and appear to be declining . I'm in a worse situation than you. The boys in the barber shop say that we can learn more about the true leaders of Phoenix by reading the society pages than from other sources. If this is so, your relative Wallace Tanner must be a community leadero Apart from the opinions of the thin-skinn ed Saints who get disturbed if the halos are out of level, I t hink the Phoenix papers are very complimen tary to Mormons. See enclosed clips. They seem to approve the good family life that the LDS promote-as well they should in an age which sees the family unit of the past being assaulted on all sides. You haven't mentioned the stamps I've been sending. Do you still want them or did the project die on the vine? It is no great job to steam them off but if you round-file them, I'm stupid to go even to that trcuble. My friend Morris Shirts was involved in a seminar at Page and managed to arrange an interview with the polygamis t Alex Joseph while he was there. He got all excited but I told him to simmer down, that Joseph didn't know anything of historica l value and that he (Morris) would wind up telling him about ten times more than he learned. Joseph had a group that included Price Johnson, in the Cottonwoo d Canyon project until the BLM cleared them out.. It turned out just as I said. ·~ Our garden is doing well and we still have grapefrui t on two trees. They are very sweet now. Have good crops pending for next season. Same for grapes . Starting to warm up. '-J ~"'-k £.., Best regards, -Iv: ~-- -~,...,..__,____. ..___.,,,r'-0.,..... , l (dDR • ..,. - ·~, ~~~w~ ~~fft; .:~J:,, , Dear George, July 6, 1979 Your clippings are unusually interesting and I thank you for thinking of me. I return a couple which may interest you, especially about the Brown family of Mesa. This is a noted LDS family that has made many friends for the Mormons. They have had the Chevy agency in Mesa for many years. Thinking people all over the country applaud the way the LDS Church stresses the family unit. If the rest of the country would do the same we would have fewer dropouts, runaways, and broken marriages. Agree with you 100 percent about this bilingual crap. Don't forget what I told you a couple of years ago about the Mexican plan to retake the cession by flooding it with their people. We should take the stand that they learn English or return to Mexicoo We have a friend who has taught in the L.A. area for 20-25 years and she has to pass a proficiency test in Spanish this fall or lose her job. She has been taking classes and private tutoring, and is about to leave for two months' intensive study in Spanish. She will live with a Mexican family in Cuernevaca. I wouldn't blame the teachers if they struck on this but there is no talk of it. They only strike to hold up the taxpayers. Your summary of writing activities surprised me by omitting mention of the family job. Have you completed this without telling me? All I have on Bushman are the xeroxed diaries for 1876-79 that you gave me • . Before our trails crossed I had gone through Life and L~bors and taken a few pages of quotes, also the same from his Journal in NAU Library. I have not seen Uohn Bushman, Utah-Arizon~ _~ioneer. Is it just out? Where is it available? It is very strange that Carmen Smith was curt with you. I have had no contact with her since that time they visited here and spent a day a few years agoo At that time they talked a very objective view but I would be a bit surprised if they dorlt'make old Lot to be a misunderstood man. By all means I urge you to complete the story of the u.o. settlement at Sunset. Stan Layton should eat this up. Have you discussed it with him? Between the documented statements from Nielson and Bushman, etc. you have the material. Does the Smith family (Lot's branch) still wield any power in the church? I just completed a review for JAH on the latest Bur.Rec. publication on federal funds. I told the editor that I was as easy on it as possible but how else do we weed out the stinkers? My review on the Larson autobiography will come out in the next UHQ and I swear that I shall do no more for a while. I am making fairly good progress on my own work but I get many interruptions and the polishing of any text seems endless. We just picked the last of our grapefruit but they will last into July 1520. Our figs are in the second crop and our grapes are the best we have raised. Still have a few carrots in the ground but cucumbers are zilch. Melons and peppers are coming. We will go to So. Utah - we think - in late July or early August if the gas situation remains as good as it is now. So far no trouble here but prices in high 80s. Best regards, P. T. Reilly August 2, 1979 Dear George, I enjoyed your excellent letter of July 18 and thank you for the suggestion to write Dr. Oliver R. Smith. I have done so and hope he atill has a spare copy of the Bushman book. Sure, you have a few bad apples but by and large we think the LDS have and promote the best family relations in the country. All people are weak in degree and seem able to practice only a limited amount of good advice. It is to the everlasting credit of the LDS Church that its policy continues to hammer away at improving poor family relationships. The family is the basic unit of our society and pp.s come under .such heavy attack in recent years that our society is becoming>'fdehumanized as that of a communist country. · For several months the LDS Church has run a series of tastefully done commercials on TV which stress the ideal vs the common mistakes parents make with children. Whoever is responsible for these has a delicate finggr on the pulse of our present-day familieso This reminds me that the Mormon economist, Howard Ruff has been speaking in our valley recently. Have you ever heard him? He advocates ggld and silver as a major way to neutralize inflation. I have been listening to this man for several years and was glad I took his advice, especially with g old breaking $JOO/oz. He is a g loomy prophet re inflation but I can remember the post-WW i German inflation. I was a kid in grade school and some of my schoolmates brought huge rolls of German marks to school. A U.S. penny would buy a huge stack. Our devalued money is going the same way and our government seems unable to cut spending. And now our president is letting the store mind itself while he campaigns for the next election! Isn't it pathetic? George, I am afraid that Gene Campbell has edited the Karl Larson quote. I have it in Karl's own handwriting in which he laments his and his wiftls poor health and their getting old, and attributes a little old pioneer lady, Mrs. Pymm, as saying "Getting old is a dirty son-of-a-bitch.:' Too many people like to picture our pioneers as nothing but perfect. Of course little old pioneer ladies aren't supposed to cuss but many of them did, just as their men drank wine and whiskey and chewed tobacco. John D. Lee's wife Rachel smoked a pipe. It is easy to take the words out of the true speaker's mouth and attribute them to an Indian. Incidentally, I hate to even think it but I would wager that my dear friend Karl Larson is near the end of the trail. Signs of senility have been present for some time. Last March Jay Redd went home to Monticello via St. George to visit his sister. I recommended that he call or visit Karl. He later told me that he called him and Karl bent his ear for two hours and now I feel indebted to Jay. I can't buy him a drink but we can blow them to a g ood dinner next winter. This brings to mind that I have a terrific correspondence file with Karl and I should be thinking about its final disposition. So. Utah College at Cedar City is showing some desire to build a good history archives ( according to Morris Shirts) 'but UHS is difficult to beat, with U of U next. Do you have any thoughts on this? Dixie College is out because of poor administration. It always will be a Junior College until they become serious about growth. The way their kids steal good books i s criminal. They have two sets of rules and the sons of some of the town's pillars are the worst offenders. I forgot to thank you for recommending that I read the article about the Max Florence attempted extortion for the church pictureso Strange to say I never had heard about this and was amazed at the gall of that creature. I thought the article was well written and am grateful to you for recommending it. Yes, those LeBarons are quite a tribe. I saw their lands in Baja a few years ago but would have liked a closer look. I have a fabulous picture of Grover Cleveland LeBaron, his two wives and their children during the polygamous phase of Lee's Ferry. One of his wives still lives in Hurricane. After Cleve died she married his brother, and now he is dead. One reason I want to visit Dixie again is to take Annie to dinner. She has some church letters that I'd like to photograph or xerox. Your remark about faith miracles, prophets, and superstition reminds me that some otherwise very intelligent people will rea l ly give me their attention if I tell them a Nephite story. I've heard plenty and have passed on a few just to see the reaction. This never fails to amaze me. I'm having a tough time getting a handle on that Strip diary but will get it located yet. I'm rather sure it is at Cane Beds. We have delayed our trip to Utah until September and think I will have it located by then. I see that Pres. Kimball was released from the hospital and I suppose many people (ETB not among them) breathed a sigh of relief. I join you in hoping that he remains healthy. I think he is one of the better presidents. Susie is avid for another go at G.S. and we are toying with the idea of going on to SLC in Sept. We had super crops of grapes and figs this year, in fact the figs almost depressed my wife, t h inking the supply would never end. If we go that far, should we carry our surplus? I have all I need in HDC but could always work in G. S. This is just in the talking stage, not definite. You know Carmen Smith better than I but I wouldn't say she is stopped by what she has encountered. She has only been gathering material for J or 4 years and might not have started her text. I had over 600 pages written on Lee's Ferry by 1968 and I've discarded nine-tenths. It is one thing to have a certain amount of material and decide to go with that regardless of incoming data, and another to keep the lines open to get the complete story. The tendency of the modern historian is to get into print quickly whether he has the full story or not. That is what our friend Crampton does and he rarely gets to the bottom of anything. Of course he has to pul;),;l.ish to keep his raise coming. What started out for me as t he simple story of Lee's Ferry is now five books and how glad I am that I didn't rush into print years ago. We are out before sunrise every morning except Sunday and do a fast 8 miles on our bikes. The evenings are too warm to walk but we swim two afternoons a week- and could swim every day if we wanted. No gas shortages here but it gets closer to 90¢/gal. every week. Many people have cut down but others go as much as ever. We see many RVs and few of them get more than 5-6 MPG. I don't know a better way to spend money than for good fresh produce. We just ride the warm weather out and September will be here before we know it. Best regards, ,~T PTR r 1,~f 1 JL' ~At, I Dear George, _,,,./ tf'7:7 1 · 9202 Raintree Drive Sun City, Ariz. 85351 August 21, 1979 rr 4- :r?<J l11evo f;lrr1 Enjoyed your letter of the 15th and found the clips interesting. Thanks for the opinion re the Larson-Reill y letter file. I agree with you that things should be kept as close to "home" as possible and that is why I direct things to SLC when I could rack up more points by placing them in San Marino. To the best of my knowledge Dixie has no papers, only bound books. The choice ones are locked in the John D. Lee room but th~ kids have stolen it blind. I have known the women at the library checkout desk for many years and have heard some hard tales that point to some of the best and oldest families in town. Next time I am there I will see if they have accumulated any papers or letter files. When Karl was in charge he sent the important items to HDC. All of my important corresponden ce is two-way. I keep carbons of nearly all letters and have originals and answering carbons filed, chronologically. I have about twenty files that would delight any librarian concerned with Western history - the Rilla Hamblin Lee, Edna Lee Brimhall, Johnsons, various academic people, etc. Sorry to report that my letter to Dr. Oliver R. Smith, History Dept,BYU was returned marked "unknown, .. "notdeli verable. '' Can you come up with a better address for -Dr. Smith? Do you suppose that Deseret Books would have the Bushman book? How about Derrifield Smith - might he not have extra copies? Do you recommend that I purchase the Mark Leone book? I haven't seen it advertised or reviewed yet. Do the HDC boys consider him "anti"? I am getting very close to paying $95.00 for a copy of History_and Qenealogy of the Bieber, BeaverJ Biever, Beeber Family, by Irvin Milton Beaver, Reading, Pa. 1937, 988 pp. I hesitate to plunk down this much for a book sight unseen but my mother's father was Houston Bevers (Beavers) and this is the only book I have ever seen on the family. I first pick them up in Giles County, Tenn. Would you do me a favor and see if the Gen. Soc. has this book in their extensive library? I won't order it until I hear from you • . My last letter to Katl Larson has gone unanswered for a couple of months which is very unl ike him. I fear he might have become incompetent. Please watch the obits in the SLC paper for his and if you see it, try to procure me a copy. We aim to get away after Labor Day, and SLC may be on our route. If so, we may spend a week in Gen. Soc. and we will bring some of our harvest. Please tell your dear wife that it isn't nerw at all to answer an'. honest question and I know of no one to whom I would rather divert surplus than GST. How is the reburbishing of the D & RG RR Station coming along for the new home of UHS? I haven't even been in the present temporary one. Hope they get some parking along with the building. It so happens that the letter Karl has not answered carried a main hope for locating the Emily B. Spencer diary. I now doubt that I will ever 1 hear from Karl again, so have contacte d another good source who happens to be one of the Johnson s at Moccasin who is brand inspecto r. I hope to have a reply this month. Inciden tallt, does your friend in Gen. Soc. know about Genealo gies and Family History put out by Univers ity Microfil ms? The 58-page catalogu e costs a buck and is well worth having. The address• Univers ity Microfil ms Interna tional, JOO No. Zeeb Road, Ann Arbor, Mich. 48106. They have one on Tanner, a genealog y of Thomas Tanner Sr. of Cornwal l, Conn. Author is Elias Fitch Tanner, Lansing , Mich. 1893, 130 pp. The price is $15.60. Your offer to will me your copy of the film of the Bushman diaries is most generous and I accept if you don't have an archives that would come ahead of me. I still want to get the Bushman book if possible . Weather here is unbeliev able. Our patio has been 91-92 at the hottest for two weeks, and it drops below 80 by bedtime . This enables us to open the house (love that fresh air). It was 63 when we set out on our bikes this AM at 5140 and has been below 70 for two weeks. We may have an early and cold winter. Think the Russians have screwed up our jet streams? Had another report from our old home area in Californ ia. The Mexican influx is astoundi ng and it is going\to pot fast. Mexican radio stations claim most of the populati on in So.-Oal . is Mexican and they sound awfully militan t about gaining politica l power. Sure glad we don't live there any more. What amazes me is the difusion of Mexican s to our northern cities. We expect them in the SW ·but not in SLC, Chicago , Seattle , etc. And are they reproduc ing fastl Vietnam ese and other orienta ls are taking over small business es and landlord s raising rents so high that old established business men are selling out and going out of busines s. Don't mean to sound gloomy. Enclose a coMple stamps and clips. Your story of the local authori ties indulgin g in gambling on the ponies reminds me that E.D. Woolley of Kanab was called on the carpet for staging horse races on Sunday and encourag ing the entire town to bet. He and Dan Seegmil ler raised pretty good horsefle sh and took on all comers. With a lot of non-Mormon cowboys on the Strip it was a good set-up. he also staged rodeos on Sunday. Best regards, P. T. heilly Sept emb er 14, 1979 Dear Geor ge, e trip and brou ght so much gard en We just retu rned from a rath er prod uctiv - a very tirin g orde al with prod uce that we had to make it in one day me a day to reco ver. Yest erda y four high way hold ups, heat , etc. It tookson obit , Lars on lett er, and clip s, your enve lope arriv ed with the W.E. John all of whic h were most inte rest ing. appe ars very fact ual. The Firs t the clip re the Mex ican s. The arti clewhen it firs t hit thre e year s case rece ived first -pag e noti ce in Ariz ona the bare back s and feet of the thre e ago. The Repu blic prin ted pict ures of e is litt le doub t that the Wetb acks show ing the ciga rette burn s and ther App aran tly thos e ~exi cans were thre e ranc hers tort ured them as alle ged. of thei r coun trym en. It was good work ers who paid for the sins of some en blin d by quic k Mex ican brou ght out that ranc hers in that area are stol ever ythi ng they can carr y, rob, and thru sts acro ss the bord er. They stea l They even stea l cars and farm equi prape . If peop le are away , they loot . oubt edly the Mex icans got a raw deal ment when the item s can be moved. Und ing bord er comm unity from Cali f. to in the tria l and the enti re Span ish-s peak ice. Bord er Mexic ans gene rally igno re Texa s was up in arms abou t Grin go just hers appe ar wea lthy to them who the 9th and 10th commandments and ranc o term I thin k the Hani gans had actu ally are bare ly hang ing on in Angl they s. jumped the gun this time , took suff ered in the past from thie very but puni shed by the Gringo jury . This inno cent Mex icans and shou ld have been s abou t bilin gua l ball ots, edureal ly is not rela ted to offi cial attit ude ral prob lem of Mex ican· povcati on, char ity, etc. , othe r than thru thea gene rela tive thin g •. Mexic ans toda y erty vs. Yank ee afflu ence --wh ich is only yest erda y, but by our are much bett er off than t heir gran dpar ents were stan dard of livin g they are poor . offi cial 's reje ctio n of the I was glad to get the clip re the Wil dlife ent in HouseRock Vall ey. This Hop i-Na vajo land swap and Nava jo rese ttlem woul d be a sham e. my face isn' t a bit red and Karl Lars on wrot e you quit e a lett er. Butwhy Karl does n't writ e - his your s shou ldn' t be eith er. I unde rstan d't expe ct answ ers but I do want to eyes ight - and have told him that I don e or dead . I sugg este d he get keep trac k of him, to know whe ther he iss aliv now and then to keep me up to some post card s and just send a few word fy me. Ther efor e I stil l date . If he died I know of no one who woul dhisnoti obit uary . Also , you must woul d appr ecia te it if you woul d watc h for than I am in Ariz . I did not ask, be more abre ast of our Utah coll eagu es writ camp aign but it is OK that and did not want you to star t a lett er from ing St. Geor ge, ask abou t Karl and you did. Anyt ime you talk to someone A frien d in Ceda r City told me he pass it on. Karl coul d go any time . er from Karl and his hear d he was dead . Tod ay's mail brou ght us a lett hand writ ing was firm . my old frien d Edward T. Lamb, It was only on this trip that I lear ned that , had died 27 March 1979 (98 yrs born in the Unit ed Orde r on 18 Sept . 1880 man that I have been inte r6 mos) . No one noti fied me. This was the ded with the HDC boys to send a view ing and tapi ng for 15 year s. I pleafive year s ago but all I got was coup le of merr to Mt. Carm el to tape Ed I don 't unde rstan d reac texcu ses why it was up to someone else to do it. ions such as this . No one told me of Elmer's death until this trip either. Now there are only two of Warren Johnson's sons lefts the "Prophet" LeRoy s. Johnson, born 12 June 1888, and his half-brother Price w. Johnson, born 2 Feb. 1886. At one time Price was a Short Creeker but quit when they slaughtered his steer and distributed it according to need, the former owner getting only a soup shank. Price is a polygamist and has his own religion--about halfway between the LDS and the Splinter Short Creekers. Price lives at Moccasin and several of his sons have become LDS bishops. He served a stretch at Florence for marrying his second wife Helen Hull on 27 March 1927 while his first wife Esther Heaton was still alive. Price is totally unreliable. He chooses to lie when the truth would do him better. He is very careless with fact and quite~ubjective in presenting any case. He once held a very interesting conversat'ion with Apostle Widtsoe, as recorded in the latter's Journal. I obtained the pertinent pages for Price. W.E. Johnson (Elmer) was quite a guy. He had animal magnetism when he was young, was clever and a bit of a rogue. No one really knows how many wives or children he had but I know of two more besides those listed. The number of children is about right except that the list does not include possibly four who were stillborn and buried in unmarked graves at Lee's Ferry. His first wife, Viola Spencer was a daughter of that hardy pioneer Howard Orson seencer. They were married 13 Sept. 19t3 at St. George and she bore hint 10 children that I count. His second wife was a Shumway who died at Kanab prior to WW 1. He and his half-brother Roy are said to have swapped wives at the Ferry - a 12 year old for a 14 year old. Elmer cooperated with me fully whereas Roy didn't. I have some good letters from Elmer and of course that 6½ hour tape that I made at Short Creek with Elmer (Short Creeker), Price (in between), and Josephs. Johnson (good LDS) on 16 May 1974. I offered this to HDC and they expressed no interest. Nuts? No word yet from the Gen.Soc. man about the Beaver book. It seemed strange that they couldn't have checked the index for you while you held the phone. I guess red tape exists in some places besides gov't. The Emily B. Spencer Diary is owned by her granddaughter, Dica Langston. My contact is Price's son Bp. Owen Johnson. Owen said he would go with me to see her as she is rather touchy. Unfortunately Owen is wagon master on the Honeymoon Wagon Trek, Pipe Springs to St. George, Sept. 11 to 15 and could not go when I was there. I think it might be wise to have Leonard A. write a letter and let me present it to her requesting her consideration of, 1) allowing deposit in HDC with copy to her; or 2) lending to HDC for copying with original to be returned. What think? Do you want me to write it or will you? I could return in a month or so. I have not seen this diary but I have seen excerpts and it is rather good. The trip was made right after Whitmore and McIntyre were killed at Pipe Spring 8 Jan. 1866, and the fearof-Indians flavor comes through. You might call Jay Haymond at UHS and tell him that Otis R. "Dock" Marston died in San Francisco JO Aug. 1979. His massive collection long has been willed to the Huntington. Crampton probably would like to know but I don't care if you don't call him or Rusho. Jay taped Dock for 37 hours over one weekend about 3-4 years ago. Friend Morris Shirts of Cedar City just returned from a 1250 mile odyssey to SW Colorado, NW New Mexico, and San Juan County, Utah in search of Peter Shirts. Peter was disfellowshipped and when he refused to confess in public, was given the boot. BY had dressed him down rather harshly for his mining II activiti eso Peter went to the Four Corners region accompa nied by his daughte r Elsie who married Reece Richard s. Public opinion forced Elsie and Reece Richard s from Farming ton, N.M. to Joseph City about 1877. Did you ever hear of these people? I know you are close to the Richards family there. I looked in your book on Joe City but found no mention . I enclose Karl's letter per your request. It is a good statemen t of his conditio n. I made a xerox. Thanks for letting me see it. Best regards , P. T. Reilly P.S. Since I am onto a third page I might as well add somethin gs that I neglecte d to say. Dica Langston lives at Cane Beds but there is no P.O. there and she receives mail at Fredoni a, Ariz. zip 86022. I really think it would be better for Owen Johnson to go with me to see her because there would be more chance of getting the diary and I can be there when I'm taking care of other business in 4 to 6 weeks. If HDC prefers to make the try without me, that is OK by me but I expect a copy of the diary. It may be written in faint pencil and not be possible to xerox or photo and must be transcri bed. If one of the modern girls does the job who is unfamil iar with old express ions, it could come out as garbled as other transcr ipts I have seen. Suggest you use your best judgemen t about the collecti ng, just see that your Arizona c:olleagu e doesn't get frozen outo There well ~ould be more nuggets in the hinterla nds. In fact, there are that I know and I'm c,o nstantly searchin g them out, but getting them is no easy matter. I do hope you have a line on Elsie and Reece Richards because she was on Peter's side when he was blackba lled, went with him to the new area, and knew of his death. Possibly you can suggest a certain Richard s to ~ontact. Best regards, K'A>J t\ B DELIC'lr; ~CH 7 ? ...__ . Arches National Park, Utah ~~ J :-r ~ 4~£./S . z.. ~60 E" 8-4 // 7 (JW, Delicate Arch September 20, 1979 Dear George, You really surprised me 19th. I was sure it was another cottontail with calling me too early as not on Daylight Savings in SLC. with that ear+Y morning telephone call on the my next door neighbor telling me he had drilled his air rifleo You never have to worry about I usually am up before 5. Of course Arizona is time and Utah is, so it was 6145 here and 7:45 I am grateful to you for pursuing the Beaver boo~ and obtaining its number and that of the microfilm. I'll probably ask the Mesa G.s. to obtain the film, but if we hit SLC later this year would prefer to see the book itself. I purchased a mint set of the New England Cox families and your friend expressed great interest in them. If he still wants to copy these I'll bring them along. There are 17 Vols with a total of 142 pp. and they take the line from the emigrant to present generations. This is the paternal line of Susie's mother and goes back to three Mayflower families. Enclosed is the rough draft for the letter as you suggested. Please feel free to give the special flavor·, modify, change, or round-file it entirely and write one closer to your heart's desire. I like to stress the safety factor·,nut the brethren on the letterhead might prefer another angle. Any way you want to handle this is OK by me. A couple of clips of interest to one with a Little Colorado background, and a couple of Scottish postmarks. Is Conference due on the weekend of Oct. 6-7? We don't want to get caught in this influx and would probably get to SLC after the faithful return home • . Best regards, -- P. T. Reilly October 8, 1979 Dear George, My thanks for passing on the response f rom Gen.Soc. I never did hear f rom them in a response to your letter of August 24 but it doesn't matter, as long as you dido Apparantly our mutual letters of Sept. 20 crossed in the mail and probably arrived on the same day. Leonard Arrington's office sent me the letter to Dica Lang ston a few days later. No other word, but then I guess I don't need anyo They do appear to dislike going on record as being friendly to a non-member. We listened to Conference and thought Elder Marvin J. Ashton made a rather unusual talk. He must be the most liberal of the Twelveo Hope the brethren take his words about change to heart. Also glad to hear that Pres. Ko is about and doing well. Rilla Hamblin Lee knows him and his wife quite well from their Arizona dayso Thanks for the Richards info. I passed it along to Morris Shirts. He is down in the dumps at present after receiving reactions from various people in SLC to the three chapters he did on Peter Shirts. He is a Ph.D. but no writer or historian, and it showso I told him that his concept was all wrong in casting Peter against pioneer history. He let the tail wag the dog and wrote of pioneer history, occasionally mentioning Peter. He wrote an entire chapter on Thompsonian doctors in order to say that there is no record of Peter's medical trainingl I told him that he has the talent to do the job if he uses a different technique. Suggested an article on Peter without detailing each historical phase. Melvin Smith of UHS sent letters to both Morris and me suggesting that we each contact the other re Peter. I f i gured that he must have heard we were interested thru either you or Jay Redd. Possibly y ou mentioned this to Jay Ha ymond and he passed it ono Both Morris and I made remarkably similar replieso We are aiming to see Sister Langston about Oct. 19 and will spend the week of Oct. 22-27 in SLC, providing the gas crunch doesn't hit sooner. I look for this next shortage to be severe and it could bring on rationing . I had a nice letter from Karl Larson which arrived t he day I returned his letter to youo He does sound perky on paper, almost 180 degrees f rom seeing him in person. Not a great deal to report this timeo Weather has cooled and the snowbirds are returning to town. Their presence is noticeable. For some reason the grapefruit crop is on the light side this year, although oranges, tangerines, etc. are n ormal. Olive crop is heavy but we don't bother processing them. Hope the raisins finally reached you. Best regards, P . T. Reilly 9202 Raintree Drive Sun City, Arizona 85351 August 2, 1979 Dr. Oliver R. Smith History Department Brigham Young University Provo, Utah 84602 Dear Dr. Smith, My friend Georges. Tanner informs me that I may be able to purchase a copy of John Bushman , Utah-Arizona Pioneer through you. If you have a spare copy, and will notify me of its price and postage, I will be happy to send you a checko I have the Bushman Diaries, 1876-79 (xerox T.S .) and have several pages of notes which I have taken in Chad Flake's domain in past years, but could use the entire seto I have used John Bushman as a reference in various monographs for the Utah Historical Quarterly and Journal of Arizona History , and consider him ~long with Frioff G. Nielson and Joseph Fish to be one of the best recorders of Little Colorado pioneer history. Frequently he does·mot give excessive detail but he is very dependable. Sincerely yours, P, T, R e i l ~ September 1, 1979 Dear George, Your letter of the 29th and the Bushman latter of the 27th arrived on the 31st and today the Bushman book arrived. I am sorry to have put you to so much trouble and thank you for your positive action. My check is enclosed. Have not had time to do more than browse but it appears to be quite well done, as family books go. The excellent ink sketches by John's grandson add much to the volume. It does seem that BYU would have forwarded my letter to Dr. Smith at his home and saved all the razmatazz. I assume that the symbol used by the JB Family Assn was John's brando It is quite similar to that of the Hashknife Outfit. I'm sure the book is worth the price if for no other reason than you recommend it. I had hoped to hear whether G.S. had the Beaver book before we leave home on Sept. 5 as getting a look at it and bringing you some raisins and figs would have been our sole reasons for going to SLC. As it is, I think I'll go ahead and pay University Microfilmthe $95 for a copy and will get some goodies to you some other way. ~o, we don't try to dry the figs but Susie makes very good jam with them. I think you've had some in the past. Your account of the garden produce makes us drool and I am with you on the fresh tomatoes, especially when grown in Utah. I'm even nuts over canned tomatoeso No, I have never seen a copy of the Josepn City u.o. book and would very much appreciate one. I expect to write more about this singular phase of Mormon history. I guess you know that the people at Colorado City live the u.o. but only their prophet drives a Cadillac. Now for your letter of Aug. 28. I have heard Karl speak of Glenn E. Snow many times and he mentions him repeatedly in his Autobiograph y. You might get quicker results if you call Dr. R. J. Snow at the U of He and his family indexed and alphabeticize d Karl's last book. u. Thank you for the dope on the Mark Leone book. I understand what you mean. I doubt that any non-Mormon writer could do a good job of writing about any Mormon phase unless he understood tham and was sympathetiC'o When a person--even a scholarly one--is out to nit-pick, it is apparant to the close reader, and especially so to a Mormon reader. Next time you talk to Don S. please get his opinion on the archives at s.u.s.c. at Cedar City. They seem to have a lot of enthusiasm and are culling the local citizens for all kinds of records, pictures, diaries, etc. I may place my files on Karl Larson and Rilla H. Lee in a suitable archives as soon as they pass to their rewards. As I mentioned, we depart Sept. 5 and I have allowed a day to visit Moccasin and Cane Beds. Incidentally , the present lawsuit of about 200 es people agains t the U.S. Gov't over the Nevada blast drift involv of any s detail e quite a few from Dixie and the Strip. If the Tribun the individ uals, I would be intere sted. I'm sure that if the LDS had more members such as St. George they would r run-of -theattrac t many potent ial members who are turned off by popula to people the of all mill Saints . BY had to be a hypocr ite to urge do What •. it into join the U.O, yet he didn't put a cent of his wealth own BY's used r you think he would have said if some recalc itrant brothe a see don't I rules. words agains t joining ? There were two sets of great deal of differe nce betwee n the BY and Russian brands of u.o., do you? Thanks again, and best regard s. P. T. Reilly Labor Day P.S. Since I won't get this in the mail until Tuesda y, I might as well add anothe r though t or two. in A few letters ago you checked whethe r G.S. had some Scottis h books your but needed I ones the their extens ive library . They didn't have with friend said they would like to copy what I found. We have come up a and ns Maclea the re MS severa l choice items in this field: The 1716 sharing to averse not are We mint set of The New Englan d Cox]'a milies. deal since G,S. has been a source of much help to us. We would want to be not would copies our with a respon sible person and be assured that damage d. When you inquire d about the History of Clan Tearla ich I got the impres sion that you did not know the man who made the search . True? it If I walk away with the Emily B. Spence r diary we may just head with out copy xerox a want I'd S? Don for SLC. Who would handle it in HDS, of it. hire If we don't go on to SLC we may go over the Mt to Green River and up miles 65 and Green the down someone with a boat to take us 116 miles that tions inscrip ant import of to Moab. I have hot news on a couple need a look-s ee. Then we will return home via Montic ello to see if Jay Redd is keeping out of mischi ef. could There is a chance that we could hear from G.S. tomorro w and that minute last the at change can and le modify all our plans. We are flexib with no inconv enience and load our car accord ingly. This Labor Day is the last gasp of summer and the feel of fall is in the air. The older we get, the faster the years roll by. Best, - November 5, 1979 Dear George: Your letter of October 14 evidently arrived the day we left and the one containing the MHA leaflets came Oct. JO. We came home that Saturday, Oct. 27, and made the 622 miles in 13 hrs. 5 mins, including stops. We were glad to have such a fine day to travel on as that bad storm that hit Colorado so hard on Oct. J0/31 was due to pass thru SLC Sunday or Monday. We could have stayed another week quite easily but as we get older we get tired sooner of motels and restaurant food. Susie picked up a cold bug from the man on the next reader and really came down with a bad one. He was barking as if he had pneumonia and consumption rolled into one and we heard several similar ones scattered throughout the room. All in all we had a good session, tho the hours were long for comfort. To use MacArthur's words, we shall return. Glad the Despain obit meant something to you. I thought it might as he was one of the settlers at Moenkopi and Tuba City. I have seen his name, or that of his father written in wagon tar at the Ferry and HouseRock. Next time we get together I would like to hear your stories of Joe Nelson. His brother . Mark James was born to Louise and Price Nelson at Lee's Ferry on 26 Sept. 1885. He married his second wife, Charlotte Ann Tanner at St. George 13 Jan. 1886. Price worked for Warren Johnson at the Ferry from August 1885 to the end of April 1886. Then Price Nelson Sr. and Jro went to Colonia Juarez and from there went to Cave Valley, Mexico. Erastus Snow visited the Cave Valley settlement in early summer of 1887 and organized it into a branch of the Juarez Ward, Price Jr. as Pres.Elder. Price Sr's sister Samantha was the second wife of Warren Johnson. The Nelsons carry genes of longevity, as the children of Johnson's second family outlived those of the first family by about ten years. The last one, Price William Johnson was born 2 Feb. 1886 and he is still alive and well at 93plust A large stack of mail piled up during our absence and as soon as I can clear out the older ones I shall write a report of the Emily Spencer deal to Leonard A. I doubt if he is holding his breath. The original diaries which I mentioned on the telephone while we were in SLC were written by James P. Andrus. They are now owned by his grandson Romarr Andrus of Provo. Andrus was a very prominent man at St. George, being V.P. and Sup't of the Canaan Coop Stock Co., a leader of the Territorial Militia, and probably one of the ten most powerful men in Dixie. You might know Roman. I do not, but we have mutual friends and I know of him and hear he is rather touchy. Please keep my name C'Ompletely out and if he pins you down on how you heard about t he diaries, tell him the Provo grapevine, which would be true indirectly. There is absolutely no doubt that he has the diaries, so don't let him fluff you off. Don't be in too great a hurry to contact him but plan your approach well. I hope you plan well enough to obtain copies at least. I know that parts of the diaries would be of interest to me - the military and exploration campaigns during the Navajo troubles, and his views of the Canaan operation. I really have no idea of the span covered in the diaries but suspect it could be much more than I have detailed and the entire collection could be comparable to the I D.D. Rust collection. If you are successful, I would like copies of the two phases I have mentioned and a briefing on the total scope. Good luck. I see that your weather has become rather nippy since we left and we were happy to once more regain the comfort of sunny Arizona. We really didn't have much fall here this year, the transition g~ing from one extreme to the other quite rapidly. During our absence the quail made shreds of our patch of green onions. There seems to be more t hat I wanted to tell you but I am somewhat harried by the work ahead of me and can't think of it now. It was good to talk to you while we were in SLC. Best regards, P. T. Reilly 9202 Raintree Drive Sun City, Ariz. 85351 r,ovember 18, 1979 Dr. Leonard J. Arring ton Historica l Departmen t East Wing 50 East ~orth Temple Street Salt Lake City, Utah 84150 Dear Dr. Arrin ~ton1 Jy mission to acquire the Emily B. Spencer diary for y our archives was not successfu l but I came away from Cane Beds with considera bly more knowledge about the objective than when I started. Lodica Lang ston, who controls t he writings, still was on an extended trip to the eastern states but I had a good visit with her sister Berta Hinton who lives on an adjoinine ranch. I left your letter with Sister Hinton who appears to have an equal interest in her " randmothe r's writings . She promised they would consult together recardine t he final deposition of the collection . The diary turned out to be several diaries, auemented by a vast collection of individua l papers. Emily had trouble obtaining writing material and utilized every scrap of paper she could find. Most of the entries are dated but I am of the opinion that the collection requires a careful editing to separate that which is historica lly useful f rom the less valuable. Both Spencers are said to have been school teachers and they made many trips from the ir home in St . ' eorge to outlying areas. Emily recorded these trips and her observatio ns could have historica l value. Emily and her husband appea r to have been married in Ohio and both tauGht school there . They came t o Utah, converted to the LDS faith and were sent south on the Cotton Mission. Sister Hint on thou ~ht that Emily recorded her trip west, and if this is true her descriptio ns could be valuable . Lodica and a JO-year old nephew plan t o in St . George this winter. I think HDC ion and that it is worth some study . I trip the Spencers made over Lee's Ferry pl ace in the 1880s. go ~hrou~h Emily Spencer's writing s eventually mie ht ~et the collectam particula rly interested in a to Moenave, said to have taken I don't think there is much more that I can do for you in this case and will trust that Sister Lan~ston will contact you . Former Bishop Owen Johns on of ' occasin is a g0 od fr iend of mine and he is a ~r ands on of Wa rren Johns on who operated Lee's Ferry from 1875 to 1896. Owen will cooperate in helping to place the Spencer writine s in a suitable archives. Cordially , P. T. Reilly cc, Ge or~e s. Tanner \ November 27, 1979 Dear George, Except for a break which came a few days ago, I would have been in your shoes - not much news in our particular field. Your clippings were interesting as our papers have carried only two items re the ERA case in the East . But one item was the lead editorial, which I thought was rather good and it puts the case in perspective for those who don't know much about the Mormons. I was surprised to see the case on Cronkhite's evening news and was even more surprised to learn that Sister Johnson's bishop, who would preside at her trial, is a big wheel in the CIA. How things have changed for the Saints who less than a hundred years ago were refused a seating in Congress! How many LDS today would sustain Brigham's policy of isolating his people from non-Mormons? You might remember a few years ago that I was searching for the Josephine Wood 1881 journal. At that time David Miller and Sister Woolsey each said the journal was possessed by the other and I felt that they were deliberately obscure to mislead me. As it is not in the archives I was eager to read it in fullo I now have a very hot lead and expect to come up with ito At the same general time, the existence of another unlisted journal has been confirmed and a good lead provided. Sometimes these breaks come like grapes - in bunches. Another favorable turn in the wheel has resulted in a genealogical breakthrough in my maternal family. Some of my ancestors were the first Huguenots to revolt against the corrupt church at Rome. They fled to this count~y between 1732 and 1770. Many fought in the Revolutionary War, the War o~ 1812, and the Civil War. Some were officers in 1776 and one died at Valley Forge. Things are really buzzingo We are thinking of flying to SLC this winter to spend a week or two in the archives. Could you find out the rates at the Hotel Utah and the Hotel Utah Moter Inn on N. Temple and west of Temple Square? We would like to be in walking distance of the Church Office Bldg. If the Hotel Utah's winter rates are $50 .00/day for two we would go elsewhere. They could be in that range. What do you think of this guy Hansen of Idaho and his to Iran? He was the guy who called for Andy Young to unofficial contact with the PLO. I think Hansen does indicated division at home, and they could snatch him Do you know him? "personal" mission be fired for his our cause much harm, as another hostage. Keep warm, and plug me in on your progress with J. Roman Andrus. Best regards, P. T. Reilly --- December 11, 1979 Dear George, Thank you for the rates for the various hostelries. Now we know. I agree with you that you saved the best for the last, and we probably will put in a bid to Wilma Groesbeck when we decide on a date. You did not give a number, only Eaglegate Apts. on So. Temple. Possibly I can phone the Phoenix Library and get them to look up the number. The $100 per week sounds fine to us. Thanks again. Aren't the rates fantastic? The gasoline situation appears very gloomy for the near future and I doubt that we will be driving that far in 1880. I can see all but essential driving eliminated completely. I don't see how the oil has lasted as long as it has and it's bound to run out some time. The motel business was poor this year and the restaurant trade is way down. We were amazed at the shortage of guests during our October visit to SLC. Sonia Johnson appears to have received what she more or less expected. I wish people in this country would stop doing penance for real or imaginary wrongs. If this would take place we would lose immediately over half of our do-gooders. It seems to me that a really; good bishop could have effected some kind of compromise. Sonia appears more than a little confused but she certainly has a loyal husband. I listened in on a radio talk show and learned that the public doesn't understand what went on and she has over 90 percent of public sympathy. Even Mormons called in from SLC and St.George. The press did a poor job of defining the issue. Many people brought up the Black question a~d ' again the church came out as the villain. Then on Sunday the Sixty Minutes program related a stor,y of a Mormon who raised and packed cherries until his LDS neighbors put him out of business and it resulted in his sueing the church. I'd have to say that in the past week the church was the victim of some very bad publicity. These things snowball and many people regard Utah as they do Iran. If we had a responsible press this ERA business could be brought out of the closet and laid out for people to decide on the merits. Now it is an emotional and and sexual issue and no one knows the pros and cons. I think it is a damned shame that only 8 out of 50 states have a community property law. If the states which don't have such a law would enact one, much of the air would escape the balloon. Have made some terrific progress lately in genealogy. I find that many of my ancestors fought in 1776-81 and 1812. One died at Valley Forgeo My mother's side were strong Huguenots and were in the front ranks of the Reformation. One of the items I mentioned previously has come into my possession, and while I haven't fully decided, do not think I will place it in HDC. I note the latest prices for Mormon gold coins are: Mormon $2.50 pay $700.00 and up 5.00 II 10.00 20,000.00 20.00 11,000.00 II II II II II II II II II II II II Maybe we should empty our socks. which went into Mormon coinage. John L. Blythe gave BY some placer gold Our citrus is ripening. We have been eating tangerines for a week, with Arizona sweets and mandarins coming fasto Grapefruit are yellow but still tart, and will get sweeter the longer they hang on the treeo We still have peppers, and our green onions would supply us if the quail would leave them alone. Hope you have your family around you and enjoy an old fashioned Christmas, as well as good collecting in 1980. Sincerely, ft..::t' P. T. Reilly