Oral History Interview of Alena Wilson, conducted by Graham Greenhalgh (transcript)

Alena Wilson, an individualistic entrepreneur, discusses her perspective on the pandemic from the standpoint of a healthy adult who runs a business and also has a fear of germs.

ALENA WILSON Midvale, Utah An interview by Graham Greenhalgh March 17, 2021 Utah COVID-19 Digital Collection Project J. Willard Marriott Library Special Collections Department University of Utah Salt Lake City, Utah GG: All right, this is Graham Greenhalgh recording an interview with Elena Wilson on March 17th, 2021 for the Marriott library, oral history project. So Alena, where did you grow up? AW:I grew up in Alamogordo, New Mexico, Southern New Mexico, almost on the border of Texas. GG: What kind of environment is it? AW: Um, hot, dry arid, um, small town feel 35,000 people. And. Just, you know, the small town feel, I don't have a better way of saying that . GG: Were you born there as well? AW I was born in Ruidoso, New Mexico, which is about 45 miles away up in the mountains and we moved to Alamogordowhen I was four. GG: Awesome. Did you go to school out there? AW: I did. So, yeah. I, um, actually went to private school until ninth grade when I entered public school for high school. GG: Okay. So what is the highest level of education you've attained? AW: I would have an associates degree, but I just never finished it because I got into starting my own business. I'm more of an entrepreneurial mindset. Um, if you will then, um, so I just never finished a degree. GG: Okay. AW: Yep. GG: All right. So how would you summarize your feelings about, um, the vaccine for COVID19. AW: Um, I think it's, you know, it's new, it's, it's hard to I'm, I'm kind of, uh, just to, uh, put everything out front I'm. Uh, I would consider myself just a germaphobic person to begin with. It had nothing to do with COVID. I didn't just, that's how I came out of the womb. Just really afraid of being sick and all of that to begin with. Um, and so to- to see something come out that's so new and hasn't really been tested and this new mRNA technology, which seems really exciting. Um, but still just, you know, new and we're still not sure about side effects and all of that just makes me, makes me wary. AW: Also. I, you know, like I said, I own my own business and I live in my own home and I don't really have contact with people. I don't go to work every day. I'm not working in a preschool or something like that. So I feel like my situation makes me a little bit, uh, have a different need for my own life than someone who has to be out there working in the public environment every day. GG: Okay. So maybe it's just not as necessary of a risk for you. Is that what you're... AW: That's kind of where I'm coming from, yes. As of right now, yes . GG: How do your feelings about thisvaccine compare to your feelings about pre-existing vaccinations? AW: I feel like they have been tested. They use more of a, um, traditional type of, uh, tech, not technology or, but, you know, technique like your flu vaccine or, you know, measles or what have you. I know that there are new vaccines coming out that are COVID that are more traditional, but these ones that first came out seemed to be more of an untested type of tech or I don't know a better way of saying that in the medical field, but, um, that's just my immediate research that I've done on my own. And, um, that's, that's kind of where I've got that information. If that makes sense. GG: So it's sort of the mechanism of action that is working? AW: Yes. GG: Okay. So does that give you more trust in the new Johnson and Johnson vaccine that uses that more traditional mechanism? AW: Um, yes and no. Again, it's still an untested vaccine that hasn't really, you know, been out there for even a week yet. Really, from what I know, it sounds like it's really, really new. I would feel more comfortable probably with like five years worth of data to look at. Um, but I'm not a medical personnel. I, that's just a feeling that I have, um, which, you know, doesn't warrant saying I'm right or wrong, but it's just a, that seems more reasonable to let that a span of time go by and see what the actual risks are to, you know, the vaccine itself. GG: So you mentioned that you had done some independent research. Do you feel that you have a pretty adequate understanding of how the new vaccine works? AW: Hmm. I have a lot of questions that don't seem to be able to be answered by just, you know, looking online. I haven't reached out to a medical professional with my questions, but there's just, um, the I've got some concerns that, you know, the information out there just doesn't seem to cover. So I'd saythere's gaps in my knowledge, for sure. GG: Do you think what understanding you do have affects your perception of the vaccine? Hmm. Yes, of course. So knowledge of course is always going to frame what we think about things. So I would have to say yes, yes. GG: Do you think any of your political ideology has anything to do with your perspective on the vaccine? AW: Um, yes and no, because their political ideology, I believe frames our worldview in general. So it's going to frame how we view things to begin with. So I... I'd say yes, but I don't think that the pal, the vaccine should be politicized in that manner. Um, but I think that the way that we view, pro or con will be framed by our worldview, which brings politics into it. So it's kind of a, a hard area to say, you know, definite black or white, you know, it's, it's hard to talk about that specifically. GG: What would you say to those that allow their political affiliations to control their view ? AW:Again, it's going to frame your whole worldview, right? It's going to, how have you, uh, viewed taxes, how you view life in general? Well, it should be controlled and not controlled is going to be framed by that political worldview. AW: So on either side, of course you want, you want reason and scientific knowledge to be king. Um, but it seems these days, those facts, quote, unquote, can be skewed by those who are producing the quote unquote facts to be skewed in a political manner from my experience. AW: And I really enjoy politics, I really get into it. So it's, it's something that I like to talk about. And, um, that's what I would say though, is that on either side, it there's both right and wrong things going on. Um, so it's, it's hard, you know, We we'd like to trust facts, but right now we're in a season where it seems like the facts, um, quote unquote, aren't, uh, aren't being presented in a way that it's true scientific material that's coming out. AW: And that could be my political belief that says that, you know what I'm saying? So it's, it's kind of a weird gray area we're in right now. I'd probably have been since the founding of talking about politics. Yeah. GG:That seems to be a common sentiment. Um, How has the vaccine hesitancy impacted people that you are close to, such as your family, friends and coworkers? AW: Oh yeah. Great question. Um, it really hasn't, I've been surprised. I've been ready for people to say, you know what? We're not comfortable coming over because you don't have the vaccine yet. I've been okay. I'm okay with that. That's your choice. If that's what you feel like you need to do, then that's fine. But really has not affected me personally. AW: Again, I work from home. I am not out. You know, dealing with the general public. I've not, um, I wouldn't say have all that social either. So, uh, I do have a small group of family and friends. And, um, there is, uh, some elderly, uh, part of our family that does have cancer. And so I've just tried to, we're trying to stay away from them, just, just to avoid any, um, exposure because of their very, very high risk being in chemo and radiation. Um, that's the only part I have my personal circle that we've, we've really just not be able to be around. Because we're, you know, just, just want to take precautions. GG: So it seems like you care a lot about the individual choice and, um, accepting what ramifications are a result. Um, which leads me to a question about your feelings towards a mandate of vaccines. AW: Yeah. Great question. Um, yeah, it's again, that, that line of personal choice- you said it perfectly- um, versus, you know, government intervention is always going to be something that, uh, in any part of our lives we need to look at. AW: So, you know, I think that if there's restrictions, maybe, you know, I can't, uh, travel across borders or what have you, that would be, you know, a country's government to restrict that, but to mandate everyone blanket, get it across the board, I don't think that the disease is for scientifically again, from the research that I've been exposed to this not serious enough that a mandate would need to be put into place. If it was a hundred percent fatal, well then heck yeah, we better talk about that. But since it is such a low percentage and healthy people can overcome it and then we need to isolate those that are of a certain age and, you know, a high risk that I'm for that. AW: And, uh, but I think the mandate really comes down to your own body and [unclear] my own property. And, and unless it's going to take me a lot for me to convince me that every single I can tell someone else what to do with their body and their property. So, um, that's where I would say, um, because it doesn't the seriousness of the situation. Doesn't seem to warrant such a blatant use of authority by a government entity. GG: Do you think the situation warrants a mask mandate? AW:Again, you're talking to a germaphobe, so I liked the masks. So I got to kind of remove that part of my personality. Um, no, I, I would say, I would say no. Um, I do not think, I think that if you want to protect yourself great, wear your mask , um, I'm also questioning the, um, um, Oh, what am I trying to, sorry, I haven't eaten lunch yet. The, um, actual protectiveness. How do you say that of the mask? Um, how much is it actually protecting someone if I were sick and see, that's the other thing is I don't, I wouldn't go out into public if I were sick. So we have a bunch of healthy people wearing masks. It's just, it's very confusing to me. And then also how effective, that's the word? How effective is the mask at keeping out those particles? AW: Um, It's something that seems to be all over the place because I wear a cloth mask that someone made and gave to me, I'm not wearing an N 95 or like a respirator. Like when I go into a crawlspace and have to look at mold, I'm going to put a respirator on like that, all that stuff's going to get into my lungs. So it's just a question of effectiveness of the masks as well. That doesn't seem to be very clear across the board from, you know, what I've read. GG: So efficacy aside. Um, what is your philosophical standpoint? AW: That no, masks should not be mandated. GG: And that becomes an issue of individual choice, correct? AW: Yes. Uh, people need to take care of themselves. Unfortunately, sometimes the stupid are still out there. That's part of the population, but you can't, you can't mandate against stupid, stupid people are going to do what they're going to do anyways. And now you're having controlling a part of the population that doesn't need to be controlled. GG: So what of the protective factor of other individuals that are, um, that are not able to make the choice, whether someone around them wears a mask, AW:Why, why wouldn't they be able to make the choice? GG: Um, so say you're exposed, you are with somebody and they choose not to wear a mask, but you're vulnerable. Um, what, what do you say to a situation like that? AW: I wouldn't be around that person. If I was vulnerable. I know. I mean, there's a certain sense of what your condition is and you put yourself into that position that most, I believe, and it seems to have lived out, you know, in our society that we pretty much are, are self-sufficient and we have a job. We go to work every day. We know how to take care of ourselves, that if I feel sick and I have a fever and I feel like I'm gonna keel over, I'm not going to go to a, you know, Maverick and buy a candy bar. I'm going to stay home and take care of myself and not expose those. That could be vulnerable. That's the pers... that's a personal part of personal responsibility. I believe most of our population has and demanding it something to cover people that just don't care anyways. Or you don't have that sense of taking care of a community. AW: Then I don't, you can't make 99% of the population be mandated to do something the 1% of probably won't do anyways. It's just a matter of personal responsibility. That's the first of all, freedom that we have to is going to other parts of our society, that we should have personal freedom, not talking about masks. Once you encroach in one part of it, what I'm trying to say is it, it will creep into all the rest of your life. In my opinion, that's kind of where I'm going. GG: How do you feel about the use of the terminology "Pro-choice" when it comes to masks? AW: Uh, that's a weird because of our society. That's a weird term just because it's clouded with the abortion movement. Um, I think you would need to frame it with some different, that's just branding now. That's just saying it in a different way. That's all GG: So, do you think that if the efficacy of the vaccine were proven you would receive the vaccine? AW: No, because, um, again, I think I'm a healthy individual. I'm not over 65 and I don't have any pre-existing conditions. Uh, perhaps if I had asthma or, um, some other. You know, um, lung disease, uh, I would definitely look at it, but I feel like I'm a healthy individual. And, um, if, if it happens, it happens, I've been really sick in the past with bronchitis and other things. And, um, I know that they are still studying longterm effects of COVID. So there'll be interesting to see what the long term, long long-term effects, um, for those that do get it. But as of where I stand right now with the information I have, um, I probably would not. Okay,being in the health condition that I'm on at is I'm 38. So. Right. GG: I should have asked that. Thank you. Um, what is your knowledge of herd immunity? AW:So it's been bantered about, you know, here in Utah, uh, they're talking about 75% of people will be getting the vaccine. We achieve herd immunity, but since our population is so young here that we can't really achieve that because they don't have a vaccine for those think it's 18 of years of age or 16 of years of age younger. They don't have a vaccine out, although it looked like that changed, it's something I read last week, but, uh, that being said that if the younger population can't get vaccinated here in Utah, we may not achieve herd immunity. All of that being said, I don't know that it's necessary again, due to the severity or the, the amount of our population that is not high risk and is not in that category. And, um, the amount of people that seem to be getting the vaccine is encouraging. If you're looking at that test from that standpoint, um, Did I answer your question at all? I feel like I rambled on that one. GG: Yeah, no, I understand. Um, let's see. How, how do you think individualism versus collectivism affects society's outlook on the pandemic? Okay. Or rather, sorry, your personal view actually would be an interesting perspective to gain. AW: Okay. Um, I think that we've hurt a lot of businesses. We've hurt a lot of people's psychological sociological, um, you know, that whole environment. That's another aspect of it that no one seems to want to talk about and that there's, there could be long-term effects, um, on people economically and psychologically from this, rather than have, uh, the actual effects of the virus itself. As an individual, I feel like the collective side of it is that we all, we should band together and do what it takes no matter what to make sure nobody gets the virus. AW: Whereas the individual would say, I have to run a business and I did to do what I need to do. I don't want to infect you. Of course, that's not my intention, but if you, um, I need to run my business at the end of the day, whether it's a restaurant or, um, you know, actually any business, we've all kind of been affected by it. So, that's where I would go. From that standpoint, GG: Would you consider yourself more of an individualist or more of a collectivist, AW: Definitely more of an inte-individualist. GG: Well, I think I have all of my questions answered. Do you have any final thoughts about the vaccine and masks and how they're affecting our society. AW: Um, I will say the, um, you know, it's, it has been eyeopening to see how quickly our government was able to shut down everything, which is a little frightening, um, that that's concerning, uh, disconcerting to me as an individual that, um, everybody will collectively jump on board with that. And not have much of a pushback. Um, however, you know, and I would hope that in the future, we would look at it locally rather than as those nationwide. You know, throw spaghetti at the wall and see if this is what's going to stick, uh, would have been nice to see local governments come together first and, you know, see what was working there. Um, the other thing I would say that I do, like that came out of it is that masks have now become normalized. So if I do in the future, like next year, Um, winter, uh, go out into public. AW: I can wear a mask if it is effective and protect myself from those that don't feel like they want to wear one. And that's okay. Again, individual choice, but me being a germaphobe, it's nice to know. I could, I could go out if I had a mask that I felt was effective and not look like a weirdo. Um, I also love how clean everything is. There's hand sanitizer, everywhere. The bathrooms are so clean. So, um, that's what I would say is one of the upsides of everything. So kind of to give you a.. you know, both sides of the story from my perspective. GG: All right. Well, thank you for joining me today. And I think that is all. hopefully your business prospers in light of this pandemic. AW:Alrighty. Well, I appreciate you. It was a good talk. Yeah. Thank you. Answer question, answer. GG: Yeah. AW:I did most of the talking, sorry, but GG: no, that, that's the, that's the point. AW: Awesome. Awesome. Okay. I'll fill out that form and get that over to you. And if you need anything to follow up, just let me know.