Ann Marie Boyden Oral History Interview

Oral history interview of Ann Marie Boyden by Marilyn Warenski about status of women in Mormon culture.

Marilyn IrTED,VIEUER July 7.t 1975 nATE Jeanne TPft'!\SCRIBER is Mormon We Women. City, Utah. being of 1978 interview by a The Ann very telling office, her at are Marilyn Warinski. city 4, interview with Ann Marie Boyden an Lake Salt Meyer November NnE This warinski Mormon Women Sl!CJr,CT MW: Marie Boyden Ann Ii.iTERVIEt\lEF. date Marie, is you accomplished a little bit 555 on East July 7th, have person. 1975. Could your of Temple, South I reputation a about subject the am this in begin this you background and education. AB: I'm really glad Yes, here, I am a where my time at a to hear that, native Salt Lake graduated maj.or KSL graduation was, East where and I person. High School I didn't know I grew up and interestingly enough, television here three months, transferred of because was then, in in the Salt here, and of mental it was a (laughter) I educated was University Theater. of Utah spent some City immediately Continuity Department because someplace else, Lake the it. health, nice time fOD asked to after about to ask be for that, ANN 2 BOYDEN MARIE because they made assistant me that them for worked for Ross writer and a left around. of .relax and do my thing things some ould she'd just finished and said, do I fall, the that, Utah for a a job, is an want stand can it started What you and get called Chapter new and Unable to since and that had was say no, connection with the I as 1969. I ski resort go, and worked had planned to had but my We're Church? time of Journey called sai3' do it. the Well, next for And I said, of to in oh, I Architects was health Are time, the start six years, in And am. and full teach to did, I year, accounts me you're well, they approached and either Mormon I Institute nothing in going accounts? secretary, I you to was the American pretty obvious so I in March of and these of and three different handle executive became agency, your that. me Ph.D., her to for want -I a work. Christmas at client of a for me, ads I I was the was great American novel, and do, been said,' well, He and think the run doing advertising been looking MW: you had the It beauty all is There just let it and write to for work to I Camp's of some go And always wanted I sorority sister old an to where years during which time year friend who old an said, and 1968 t; home. a she'd or a quite Journey's client. and love s not that year, up ' for and do doing started and four by the singing King Family.- t.he.r e -when with them kind Journey Advertising for producer, owned was for Following that, experience. fun a was Journey in October of Ross which that and teenagers, four almost for was television program hour weekly half a I extra-curricular with my other duties. of sort was which they and promotion department, new a promotion drectr produced also I years. just starting were to years you me an about agency loose old from I now. a UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor sour-ce. .of Information lam City, river, mine, Location county Kind of feature etc. / / altitude / / longitude latitude / township section -------------------------------------------------------- town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Name History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN family? Mormon AB: MW: AB: I Yes, Yes. they used Well, anymore. They active a a as of guide So AB: Very much you from come Yes. until Mutual and don't the been do that My mother has been very defunct recently Approvement he's they think Sundi general Assocition. School Father's Superintendent, Choir, Comorah I AB: He's the MW: What would traditional very a My brother is·a:return missioriary, so. MW: and Pageant. in He fact, as even spends every we speak, and Jis is in the directing the July doing that. see. how do In I -- Tabernacle Hill the -- women's young gleaner. silver a things. other of am thing. that to-have have I impressive!, Temple Square, on MW: fact, very member the Stake and In am. That's (laughter) board AB: 3 BOYDEN MARIE the assistant director you you feel Church? say the about of Mormon yourself Hill the Church as a Comorah attitude woman? is Pageant. about women, and UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor Socr f Information / / Name City, river, mine, Location. county / etc. / altitude longitude latitude township Kind of feature -- section --------------- town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use __ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN MW: just Well, as AB: I'm fact" in the MW: AB: it sure .on Sunday is infuenced like you has. to went I Ly recen.tly have day for my Church when talk inactive, and Sunday School, and have much also if that? about Primary to know to about womanhood attitudes your become I me. Lnt.e re s t ed and, I'm (J,eneral, in woman Would any way. Well, a Church has the Mormon in 4 BOYDEN MARIE that because and feelings towards better stay away from it. I (laughter) My family has always ben parents Democrats met kind the of dearest our politics couldn't I young, Young at we were understand friend, how she family, liberal very a during the up why next the possibly could Roosevelt with, brought and fact, era, and that's was very when I neighbor door be in and and Mormon a who my was a Republican. MW: That's AB: Right. in an The home our brought took it what I was that up liberal, the as as for religious point of to books it dawned on do, value. born, was granted that wanted given political point of view person a when my brother seven I unusual would I that I was to read. me that most It view of I was an and had a to go treated was much as I was. prevalent also was only child until tension, of lot college, that very much only when women was as I and would I an was in didn't do all the' always achieve individual. high I was school things that ANN in my mind had I but School, they/take with and teacher, her trouble more friends her to And mother's often in teach said nobody would have said like and brother don't think is not if They their I medieval, to their husbands' again in Women's home. homes do the Movement, after and mother encourages 19th least careers. same you against families, it opposite, It's they to Women not be to spiritually know, you very are really not said, ERA and open totally emotional, and her that something do to both my I career. attitude stay home. to are individuals in not have a hear it's any I lady said, through ch truly to gave come do you know, being must they think that's going stand irrational. you going church's That therefore,. if where but are one high school, in back went careers, gift shop a was was Century. They My feeling is, because she that. fulfillment that I So just anybody's children? started since but official The had she was Priesthood, conference and this Their freak. a at have right. own you're church if word, a fact, public schools, that women friends Mormon In anyone. about about mother that, good think I fulfilling about Sunday to strong person. very a fact, In go. this. do carries very her her, than the grown, were the not are and school, teach and careers gave that about you're going is to look I as going not Church the that nothing emasculating saw always me you're say, because my mother They both had father and my opinions the salt, of father. is my a of some and people remarkable are they know that they if know don't I grain a They call me, still will father my parents had always encouraged that, my they encouraged itself, Church The back. See, do to they still do. fact, in and 5 BOYDEN MARIE again this afraid to and the of destroy the going to in practice, of that. think husband, destroy our it would It's diametrically ANN opposed this about founding the what to Perhaps it things. did in 6 BOYDEN MARIE day other the was -- women, very place, and bright that Christian. but make a do both and some for me, the MW: confines AB: Right MW: I AB: And to women I a the and but can, of the carer away you're bad, I feel that very get me having do to just don't I can't. that But there's and chosen and have it a I that was in our don't especially you're have some. a I've lifestyle I've I've kind and us I done. can't I power already is It the than other career, I Church over about keep Mormon, a as of because anybody, guilt feelings, energy think don't truly up -- more, cause threaten to lot anything by bright threatened a Priesthood the than to talked we feeling and want cause to chose my I justice. do and enoosing haven't I choice, to know few very absolutely honest be chosen, have I want women you're brought if women, going it's and to of power that very women, think I -- powerful of some they're going think that's I lost by bright threatened causing problems, to overpowering but through their Priesthood, got the perhaps they've and temporal, Mormon overpowering more They church thought. the the days, where they really felt those think of fathers is I of the I had couldn't energy. I right choice place for that choice within today. marriage because and family. you're doing that. see. back into strongly, these that attitude. single's branches You which know, are keep trying just nightmares! UTAH PLACE NAl\1ES Contributor source. of Information Nam ___ City, river, mine, Location. county / etc. / altitude longitude / latitude township Kind of feature / --- section _ town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Name History: Description, area involved, and other important (Use other side or additional sheets if necessary.) __ information. MARIE MW: You don't AB: Oh! Have MW: No. AB: Oh my enjoy The pitiful. you're was on, on either least are I of with did, and I went social feel you to a whom of Fast got really it's problems framework of and the make" on most get married, and severe kind that women, to got hope chests, guys outside contacts at or or widowers very much like Meeting, felt like auction block. the (laughter) are 80% They're have whom of them? of one conflicts Mormon people who divorced or MW: all men can't make who at They're just awful! dear! get married, to looked ever you single's? the really into that are I 7 BOYDEN ANN You didn't find many women like yourself at single's the group? AB: No one with whom l Junior League. MW: Sure. I AB: A lot of them kinds bright of and that. That's form the close a kind of friendship I woman No I like the dig. see. very valuable all could of are association women they're The and homemakers, doing all for me, all very because kinds active, Single's Branch, I power more of and guess it's things, I it them, to cross a but and that's section they're all really enjoy that, fills a need for a of very because some UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor source, City, river, mine, Location county of Information etc. / / altitude / / longitude latitude Kind of feature / township section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name ___ History: Description, area involved, and other important information. (Use other side or additional sheets if necessary.) ANN MARIE 8 BOYDEN people, where but think it's I and you go, people and married experiec. of M'J: And AB: I So it works AB: Yes. MW: And to you. you were on that you define as Yes, I'm sure, I MW: Yes. AB: But I to because ttitude me and it's segrated kind of the Mormon Church? say about have many being and a single neighborhood a place kind experience. don't I think that a anywhere. somewhat is more one that parents your affected by that than Church attitude? I and sort of equate my parent's attitude with sometimes be find surprised, that if not they are not embarrassed, the to same. hear that. think they do depart very often. eelings don't hear widowers, anywhere, myself. think my parents would that, grandmothers about your womanhood the church is a and apparen t Ly what the Church in My idea of little kids and a would work you're attitude passed AB: not t.hat; doesn't work don't think -are people It's single's thing MW: there big mistake. a a woman, feelings about and Now about being a I being have very a woman Mormon woman. positive in 1975. If you I were to UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor source. of Infor,mation am ___ City, river, mine, Location. county / etc. / altitude longitude / latitude Kind of feature. township / --- section --- town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name __ History: Description, area involved, and other important information. (Use other side or additional sheets if necessary.) ANN 9 BOYDEN MARIE think I'd don't ask me, I think I ever would have, and all of my religious training, I'm forth, from come sure myself describe ever feelings tnose ;.,:- .... and roots, Mormon and people other about of my all yet all, of my heritage, I don't I that way. so they're think good. MW: AB: Back to that you the brought negative feelins to initiate at MW: I see. AB: I don't MW: I was AB: I don't something problem have going a have answer for I the ask men a if you better a for Church, their ahd are to had- women like person order it, but what they've done, I aware tried have have think, .is I and be a think -- their answer together for marriage, That me. that more other some answer. and contributing members, in been made answer. people whose goal know in Church Mormon acute. more think that there You single's about better to getting single an Church has the the they've recognized that single people exist, and least the with singles in -- programs. tried.to do make women Apparently up. of Yes, single of subject is, isn't my that's people like there's bishop me another or in a a is but that and goal, suitable who aimed I isn't guess answer, really at could but be more strange thing about those. bishopric, to be an official, UTAH PLACE NAi\1ES Contributor source, of Information Nam ___ City, river, mine, Location. county / etc. altitude / / longitude latitude township Kind of feature / --- section _ town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side __ or area involved, and additional sheets if other important necessary.) information. ANN 10 BOYDEN MARIE be you have the single's to married, wards point from my one would like very a strange setup, and I how they counsel can think ineffective an Maybe it's good for other people. of view. for be welcomed to Well, people. what I am in in, I'm the ward I ." -I wre MW: _' inclined, am, And do and what f ee L you AB: That does MW: I AB: You I of know one MW: Sure. AB: And People the worst Church that but be welcomed to if for I what I if inclined, so were mean and who am Ln the ward wi th everybody else. reality. isn't that the are No. hings, worsf always trying things in happens Everybody's got AB: do can presently, I see. hee. MW: like I'd happn. not I'm not and attitude would be my '1,' so at counselors the and bishops the all married are It's single people. that so to some are just happened you line to Julie out up: ups! And for the following Well, you know everyday for guy it line to the world you and if you go to week. you. (laughter) They're going on my list. to save your Therefore, I soul. guess that that's teaching just did not not paramount---­ take hold UTAH PLACE NA1\1ES Contributor source. of Information City, river, mine, etc. county altitude / / / / Location longitude latitude / township Kind of feature. section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: Description, area involved, and other important (Use other side or additional sheets if necessary.) ___ information. ANN 11 BOYDEN MARIE in my case, figure I cause going I'm it have to there if anyway is one. therefore MW: And AB: Yes. MW: How would AB: Well, eternity I we we can MW: Which AB: Right, glory, in about all stuff too. of believe MW:\ Have AB: Briefly entitled be that, In in the I order think of each us is an from And the to the traveled on that. individual, think rewards. degrees I'm I Church. not individual of even I glory if have and that sure that, do we all I achievement which of lot a believe a and in California. lived I've outside of traveled the a state of great deal. surely questions that of is then theological it, Hormon right. you all best kind of person the Be time. and for is: the doctrine that I ean highest the reach to and married limits. our that. the fact, i.ed hogwash. of in that single. or believe I mar r Temples. another message and You're the bunch be, married is be achieve within must you must do a believe, I you must of one that's think and doctrine is, of degree subject? that on describe that? you the doctrine conflict with the in you are Utah? but I Doctrine. UTAH PLACE NAl\1ES Contributor * source, of Information lame City, river, mine, etc. Location. county / / altitude longitude / latitude township Kind of feature / -- section __ town, mountain, river) etc. Origin of Name History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN MARIE MW: Traveled AB: Yes. MW: This out 12 BOYDEN might be there if Mormon 'women It's AB: an I'm lot a My only differences are elusive committee MW: And what sorority AB: I'm a MW: Phi Phi. AB: And I'd MW: You didn't AB: Between say very the see Do see you and any other non- differences? with that would Dar are a couple you of be in the sorority. I was on a years. affiliated with? graduating people here. they're tendencies class than they could. few. anything. of whether more women finding Phi. homebodies, and Mormon in question. national proud between interested I'm but Utah and' elsewhere. experie_n.c. Phi question, d If f Lcu Lt; a in sure. I half to think are People here have Mormons like trom back, it or not. here a We carne have and want theUniversity, and tendency back as a a to lot to be very tendency stay. o{ us quickly and to be Of_my that as fled, fast as UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor . Sourc,ei C:..)-. Qf Information l\{am City, river, mine, Location, county etc. / / altitude longitude / latitude township Kind of feature. / --- section --------------- town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use __ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important necessary.) information. MARIE MW: You don't AB: No, I dreams, it a a frinds, and they get. MW: Lake Defining Salt AB: Yes. MW: It's a that. I in a was your Oh, I'm very much MW: Yo are AB: I lobbied down and to why for I I that the it asked about attitude it. it. for a do we little don't .. you? theology that very provincial you're growing up, providing We're -- the Mormon sociological that's and AB: for think live, to subject particularly Y'lhat Why- a do or have to be maturity, very much influence, the to -- you related yes ,"·does think my non-Mormon Although as nitty gritty, that's what makes Lake. Mormons ing problem, so it gets When have we and with agree with would I is pleasant, nice city is clean great place can't live, to This then the to angry when so provincial. so provincialism, it Salt we place the that that make nice you things, why are Mormons to provincial. be to that necessarily not that makes the why so realize to thing of all so them causes do, I Yes. -- The place. make necessarily attribute think theology and 13 BOYDEN ANN strenuously. sense is sometimes for your opinion Mormon about the women, I'm a on very interest­ that. interested in Equal Right's Amendment? UTAH PLACE NillS Contributor Sourc,ef ol Information am _ City, river, mine, Location county etc. / altitude / / longitude latitude / / township Kind of feature section __ town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Nrume History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN MARIE MW: I AB: It MW: see. like kind of was campaign In Utah? . Carlisle It is political women radfication petty, so coalitions and the area so know, and then and think, well, to to have wanted gosh, so illogical. those on that's your get emotional that's something don't. just strictly And that was you your lot You feel Whether that they did it first they, in fact,-- said hand it would or not, and stop Y0U if you more than if you instructed all of those people who felt they had and just that and against it, the frustrating, so strictly by, of know, Church out was was grounds, you all opposition,is contrast the came for The a reflected spoke the business, sell the and emotional can that it ruined of some Really hands, from woman It's be. and calm. it, of out the we Utah State the coalitions rational, throw up to it defeated see gone irrational, just so -- into that sponsors if see hear White and opposed to the she won't is My guess Vee you you resolution a good frieng of mine, a of one interesting be see as because was To career. emotional, she and to introduced funny arguments church. MW: ,going reelected. fTom the Equal Right's the Utah. amazing experience, It's" Bountiful who has Legislature guess. like to comment about legislator, a was you in an was resolutioned. her I ----_ And would (laughter) Amendment AB: 14 BOYDEN ruin to the done because home, obey the they did it. UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Source qf Information Nam City, river, mine, / Location county Kind of feature etc. altitude / / longitude latitude / / township section -------------------------------------------------------- town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Name History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN 15 BOYDEN MARIE They, MW: I AB: We had votes at one see. it, in the house point there. Only who People and tapes look I aren't that's at the point one five needed I'm not or more to individuals as that we'd all constitution, than, emancipation hasn't, yet particularly changed anything here. their for Utah do. of think just I here terms other amendment an their we" value and forth, in our discriminatd against are equal we so like of just and at everything because It's skills own such has women in amendment. that. look I 50 on hange going t discriminate against people, the and just switched, going like something naural eqality, just of statement a there you've got this sure it's ERA, it for vote and it's but individuals worse at just like color, to it, at look I -- g6ing were night, over we it. defeated fact, in AB: So pay. need to have it hasn't for that our children. MW: AB: Mormon Relief a high place I guess are have that Society in society depends traditionally put a high place discrimination, scheme putting of in on that down, If and do a do have of you want. Mormon pedestal by their husbands. Yes, people because women equal rights. have opinion society if you Mormon what your on because things. suggest that leaders you who are work a homemaker, are brought stay home and keep your I think that's a but down houseJ valuable and women they that's in and job that I'm needed not and UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Bour-ce, f Information Nam; _ City, river, mine, etc. Location county / altitude / longitude / latitude Kind of feature town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Ne / township / section ---------------- ___ History: Description, area involved, and other important information. (Use other side or additional sheets if necessary.) ANN 16 BOYDEN MARIE and difficult career, anything else, and the Mormon of i that but women, You know. church and for yet they're willing to let them work free, and we'll lot necessarily sexist. against discriminate My job is good as a much on that I AB: How many an homemaker, in are of the male them is of me, because my job isn't I guess advertising executive. and my I guess have but the hierarchy towards ever noticed -the Church? of of over Therefore, the truth, aren't that they homemaker. adamant an the for church know the There turn a feelings you of all power. women that's and Church. the about is in power them work let leaders One plane, same there salesmen MW: of that but Church values, women use Church work the for money, feelings of women keep things running, lot a for all for the that and career choice career only Don"t a valid a That's what makes -- have I be the doubt very much I that. I them not am are how many as pretty insurance see. lawyers artists. a should are very used like they MW: That's AB: And I a one of sell very guess kind of have Heavens, writer that's reached to life -- ever seen We've insurance, maybe? two, got a a and I No musician bunch and of doctors. or painter a guys up it's or there who they're selling think No church the just abominable. interesting point. that's is you One, selling intangibles, really interesting whom there? are -- about and this how that is I feel. is that involved And we one have with of a things the lot of insurance, that's clients, and our UTAH PLACE NiliS Contributor Bourc.e_[ qf City, river, mine, etc. / Location county Information / altitude longitude / / latitude township Kind of feature / section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side or area ___ involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN MARIE 17 BOYDEN they're only insurance agents, against you've MW: But AB: Yes. And I right You mentioned think By women, street think the by white Church, the the Mormon Church, itself I don't right see and now, it in because they don't have they have to refer happened. sales to them It's and of the as Mormon Church was suggested that they home the and that's family. the reason individual men, they the of will for business. that way. you think Church and subsequently by Women's women's It's People insurance help, I Mormon affected be push their do interests me, that clerical fresh the that help but be. can we're is You You know, reason. women international how attitude women. thing One see. national, too. business? your thought that the reason the Mormon the AB: I in permeating the destruction of the their that's I that Equal Right's Amendment. threatened were MW: earlier why you the they give. eperience to it men now. threatened by were I able pit that know, maybe that's part of so really think that.'s Church to and almost, been LDS opposed AB: women you the world, in sexist guys they work with those actuarial tables, and MW: the most just in my mind. and came And the a persevasive attitude being are agents as made the a meeting face, to girls. they have legally where Movement, rights. such from that talk, to where legislatively When that the UTAH PLACE NiliS Contributor Inforation Nam _ City, river, mine, Location county etc. / / altitude / longitude latitude Kind of feature / township / section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name ___ History: Description, area involved, and other important information. (Use other side or additional sheets if necessary.) ANN 18 BOYDEN MARIE I think recognize that. and to, winning is Women's Movement the that I think don" t stop and think about it, certainly this is MW: to threaten to be Do you recognized they Well, Episcopal and admit the really and just I think don't to don't want I Priesthood. and I into the priesthood yes, t just Was women be can in going to have those 14 women or however many were the ordained. thing same as I'ro last week Priests. is really of churches. Church that sort want do. they the I'm buckle under to that sure with black it was, sooner the Canadian that sure sooner or later, who.wee 6r later -- It's men. tnink in time. MW: You AB: In time. as we B'ac k from Now It know to affect AB:, couldn't I I have general, in am, I moving women said, Church the ordained MW: and what in otper are Anglocacan just who women to have to Church? Mormon AB: don't want I the but if know, you don't think that I and for anticipate that women, going later or sooer subjective, very anybody, is Church going it's that battles many so the will have to happen, if the Church is going to stay it. question the Mormon of the Church. way What in which changes this? that's maybe a hundred years away. the Women's would you Movement might anticipate aside UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Sourc o Inforation Nam ___ City, river, mine, etc. / Location county / altitude / / longitude latitude / township Kind of feature section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Nrume History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN MARIE MW: Yes, AB: The of I going was the think, I themselves. women is About AB: Urn themselves, And you hum. faiths, but part of the world do school, and where the I you'll see brought are see more fewer be up themselves. think not AB: Because of those things. little older, have quo. because and the rush so to. 50's career more are that to lower it much what some of the as thes children. and first places young I think I think you'll other then see things Mormon think y?u'll Mormon with divorce rate. when seemed everybody's so it's to in get married and people will get married when mature, know to that, some so get married out of of I all gone, all about doing a are it's they have choices. women. Because You that see do you marrages, young choices you'll things? those wonderful really women happens with children afraid of those a it and the realize to Because of instead of status once and fewer MW: they that children, are a them, think that those housewives who are of myself, oriented Mormon I feeling of with Mormon women, more immediately, think there will girls Mormon great social pressure there is they. are many so do with I children have see upbringing our consciousness raising the you mean. think I just think most most inundated by apathy and the MW: I ask. to immediate thing, are a 19 BOYDEN me, a valid and it choice was in nostalgic about, and'I UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Infor,mation City, river, mine, etc. / Location county / altitude / / longitude latitude township Kind of feature. / section ---- town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Name History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN can't MW: AB: 20 BOYDEN MARIE figure out why. (laughter) had You get in the pep club, to day. think that hasn't changed You it and know, graduatio and you was had the on a diamond is on And level. same Marriage that much. all have to I an awfully In some big choice. MW: 0l1:. AB: And needs the Church yes in .. terms MW: Sure. AB: But also to MW: AB: suh, as the getting married. in terms and it that the single wards on You send to to go old maids her know, actually, men on on a a if though. Well, mission, must. they get to already, mission. it works. you're so what are a that better ways they have Girls we are and 24, be She'll meet That's for being. isn't mission until a they're let's happens. boys have going from Well, of it and thing same of obvious do? done has discouraged it's treated be to going somebody, than answer particular problem. (laughter) But that the men are experience. forced Well, to a go lot on of a mission. guys They are forced really aren't ready to for have that, UTAH PLACE NiliS Contributor Bourc .. of Information Nam ___ City, river, mine, etc. / Location county altitude / / / longitude latitude township Kind of feature. / section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side or area ___ involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN crack for they suited or nor 21 BOYDEN MARIE and up something immoral, to be well that I you the mission in it is OF do can think, individual (END they have all so really weren't up that to, tended if you and a take ONE OF -- a Well, when look at these TAPE) account basket they put you that those kind that they do unless cases they and of say the thing have that guys on to them, church and each person individual they and pressures know, they can't, theological teaching into home sent ever of experience, sell hard field where that. to stop and take indeed SIDE it, of nobody. is Well, stuff. kind that is needs realize an differences. UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor source, or Information lam City, river, mine, etc. Location county / altitude / longitude / / latitude Kind of feature township / section ---- town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Name ___ History: Description, area involved, and other important information. (Use other side or additional sheets if necessary.) (SIDE TWO OF TAPE) ANN MARIE MW: Some of the changes that The-Priesthood, of the of I don't know that, people would take as Urn AB: You doctrinal I don't doctrine. Slowing it MW: a I guess change, think it would that down. : Would yes, __ ______ AB: some not?, or have-to-be married slowing ---- suggest would really require would. course, accepting single people because you changes, wouldn't they doctrinal AB: 22 BOYDEN need hum. not. to. I see. know to seek doesn't need MW: Right. AB: Let's take Well, we're I would down a a more practical realistic look at that really theologial change. see. a look at rushing the kids divorce into rate, it too and what fast, and are I we think doing wrong? that's really true. MW: I see. That's very sensitive AB: good. Do you think the of its membership? don't think they have any idea. to the No. I many hierarchies. feelings They're very shielded Church None. from leadership is think they're like anything that's wrong I UTAH PLACE NhS Contributor Source, f Information lame City, river, mine, Location. county / etc. altitude longitude / / latitude / township Kind of feature. -- section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and additional sheets if other important necessary.) information. ANN 23 BOYDEN MARIE within tumultus or them would of some insurnce the It's showing give against salesmen, insurance in that I don't think they if darn a knew. obviously been have And_E syndrome. salesman knew. they them wouldn't of sensitive people least if think but do. I think I world. the (laughter) AB: And MW: I they there Yes, I do. the ward at toward the Yes, do. to They must be that they have clergy. do can over MW: I AB: So I In feelings to have their that to well as training own there that is the members? with deal or as bishops the have work, a and that may wife and they because counseling whatsoever, experience, and I think people the They problems. the whatever they theoretically deal with feel you daily life, their so nbl of equipped· ill do level feel also I carryon calIon their are the ward At married, They is I level expected are are. Interesting. see. sensitivity AB: responsive more some prejudick my they're the MW: think I they know. be I be. family aren't paid all they so they get in way heads. see. although don't fact, Ithink know what in my they're they can experience far do I've more about only responsive it, and known I two than the hierarchy, think very often bishops who I they felt UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor ,_ Sourc.e_:: oJ Information Name City, river, mine, etc. / Location county altitude / longitude / / latitude / township Kind of feature section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side or area ___ involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) 24 ANN BOYDEN MARIE They're put in really their' fault, not it's and given, they that's what because than mouth the platitudes, did other a were position they can't handle. MW: church I MW: Not how and your hand else has say I voted I democracy, but methods of you? any. I'm Are the Mormon not any? there I sure. of (laughter) AB: Call (laughter) of, it's there boycott the you it, for appointment, this sustain not. is and that, besides when I was a It's I a really don't they you striking. socieard Relief Society? you have gosh, would going Strike. (laughter) have you your held up holler up use as on you, That's person. that to up Everybody it do. they'd just hold hold if kngaroo, you know, think Relief and church know, you any. good what know, and and they always know, You any. know think MW: it know don't abstained usually don't Do Marilyn. against it, only thing I in women to that works. hand I its membership for might how words, other have changes that you suggest? any, don't know of I so MW: the I really. know AB: cause don't know of AB: In about- change? bring Church the does then, What mechanisms, a the big situation. the traditional UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor Source. of Information Name City, river, mine, Location, county / etc. / altitude longitude latitude / / township Kind of feature. -- section ---- town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: Description, (Use other ___ side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN AB: 25 BOYDEN MARIE (laughter) the more radical it's not is t·1W: Oh, AB: Yes. MW: So you I think that Women's really come Yes. MW: I AB: Rather very than girls the Well, doctors. You business, because to improve" MW: Yes. AB: Now any know, the in I I show a think anybody else in black a guy on maybe so change. our that commercial had you of the_ said, would of to textbooks new our start show profession, has done a be giving women of our great deal people. playing poker or it will think gQing we're advertising black is the proud I Yes. schools, very of as because the men's. Textbooks, feel position you and people's heads. in action choices. more are legal of attitudes individual. open although the lady about come international, the institutional any never, M0rmon, a that will changes because than Rather see. ou'd are that. Movement, of Because AB: the about sure Boycott is Coat didn't know she? National I'm only methods that the hand. of out so about and ones, the Bean started who think that's I black and people drinking sweat too. beer like There's UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Sourc City, river, mine, Location, county / of Information etc. / altitude longitude latitude / township Kind of feature / -- section ---- town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side ___ or area involved, and additional sheets if other important information. necessary.) . ANN a thing new AB: is That Yes. them on. Yes, and with freshner You and drama area where there these funny soap one on even of. fun air for out some __ Well, folks. ------little subliminally that says --. very MW: 26 BOYDEN MARIE 9w it's going to take that and so see those a and changes, it's but girls influence the growing are of kind the best up, makes choices. change, of they're going to hold of the and Church the see television In make starting ,to to everybody that know lawyers. women is that while, Mormon young as of all and forth, so great change a you operas doctors, women more see been has the '\ married can at do what I to awhile, be that all Of mass 'I because media in have women and they're I are going to women choices It's going to be but I those to going open all are institution will The AB: Yes. Well, I think then adapt it will or to that it will be to It will have take problems affected those for leadership -- to happen because up, right want. don't going that's work. MW: I people, are those lawyer if not going it's get to I'm And as and change. Mormon a have again know, You but be once boss. permeate. everything. and to, the country, our can very valuable be can to just like everybody else, lives have I don't I change attitudes their as gosh, children. don't going that's 25 them on well, say, have secretary. a but and want. putting it down, have powerful less open, .nd 18 age be to their vistas and I going is Church to Mormon women to UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor . Sourc. rlOl Information Nam. ___ City, river, mine, etc. altitude county / / / / Location latitude longitude / township Kind of feature section __ town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Nrume History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN MARIE 27 BOYDEN had them almost and in this time and went through all the stilFgave 'them court their that mbthers MW: Yes. AB: He MW: Some I are should of better had have these laws will store Those and father a things like this, of and facts the on the but ridiculous. is mother a on the on notion for their certainly be i sake as and for his. advantageous to as men to course. being frightened, for the forth, parents than fathrs which is silly. kids his Well, very much Yes. had because based more to so Sure. see. women+of AB: they could have making decisions are and courts that Now They keep them. boyfriend kidnapped, current ,9wn- 'father, 'and fortunately just judges to kids the sent their mother. to screwed up where are wife new and -her bread, for his it, of the middle their bikes kids year, a they wanted so they got the kids again, of so. All you know, them. the But older I don't Mormon people blame They've women. got it made. MW: Yes. AB: Gosh, MW: to be It has if you're taken been happy with off said their at the that, to me top, but if I'm you're not that the situation. Do so on sure majority you see pedestal, a that of they Mormon yourself -- it's would women You real hard be. are are very obviously UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Sourc of Information Nam City, river, mine, county etc. altitude longitude latitude township Kind of feature _ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side __ or area involved, and other important information. additional sheets if necessary.) ANN 28 MARIE BOYDEN different trom the AB: That's probably MW: And do you see people who feel norm. true. yourself quite as the way you different do who are do or know you lot a of connected with the Mormon Church? AB: MW: I lots know 'So you're think don't AB: I MW: You AB: Thanks don't to the MW: I AB: No. And see. Not at I'm very speak, parents, my upbringing in have very do not. you all. In the Church. and so forth. I was learning to in have warm experiences. Associations with doing kinds and the was very contemporaries of my Host different ugly feelings. bitter, fact the MIA program Marvelous way. your, attitudes in feelings grateful for the experiences that in through do. I alone. dear Church the way so. stand my feel different that contemporaries than my in not who people of of had the Church. learning in to experience pretty yearly roadshows couldn't I for and have Ones I some pretty fantastic that sort of thing. gotten in any other women. UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Sourc.e of Infor,mation Namp ___ City, river, mine, Location. county / etc. altitude longitude / / latitude / township Kind of feature -- section _ town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Name History: (Use __ Description, other side or area involved, and additional sheets if other important necessary.) information. ANN 29 MARIE BOYDEN a most brilliant at very in church her. at all. again my dear they that further than theirs nonetheless, but more Most .. there's say happy, from away think the there's say away couldn't I it have it by it. But, weren't done, I'm and that ward if or ward. I ask somebody interested. I knew that did get together, I else bitter upbringing, thanks in can have there know but would I'm at t's of you who was that such for describe the that literally I've would thing a singles to me a go as She just way I'm very warm, I it, like '_S"chool" teacher. blessing, programs don't they'll either put was are tese surpressing atypical in all. would I compLe t e Ly broken church, all and that most true either the happen to backgro-unq.s, roadshow which the the much so go going that's inparticular, door, the were opinions oinf a think direct to disagree isn't hate, to dogrnagtic Sunday I yes, didn't there not have I but my and friend, one walk me work with about and there very a to that sure really don't have bitter feelings single's MW: I opportunity Mormon bitter very or had good feelings toward the good number a nothin.g?od from take I'm strongest, the they would think of thinking, that's, have like was I that my that or who there's church ugly experiences. chased eye did number. _. that concerned are friends good I'd but such think that I of my a is I and personal experiences. own parents, sure warm, think they're wrong, I I'm and an when of one life, in my met very have I of my terms feelings to ever She's 13. or important time in my life, and under her, have 12 president MIA our was is what I women who one which beehive girl, a for Jacobson Florence me and in if the already occasionally. the single's' where they little bit. UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Nam ___ City, river, mine, etc. Location county / altitude / longitude / / latitude township Kind of feature, / section ---------------- town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side or area ------- inVOlved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN 30 BOYDEN MARIE and 20th Ward Hou s e the at it meets they divide people family 'home evening bishopric single. is they're single. in Everybody Monday, on a ; and' .t hey have and I whole ward, the Now guys in but it that ward. Even and have artificial, very together it very be bishop the because be. Sunday services their the everybody except cannot imagine widowers could I family home evening, that meet find Ensign Stake, is stake which our families into up it's and uncomfortable, MW: in Well, AB: for are singles. AB: Yes. MW: I AB: Yes, MW: And AB: I MW: There AB: It's see. everything is there think in is singles, except'for the hierarchy. of vision everywhere throughout the metropolitan areas, yes. such the for a band -- is. been these on a single's thought which But it you have seems to stake basis wards. I and don't ±h?y refer these know. I'm going' to like given the Mormon have had sexual tell you, I just because teachings intercourse had I on before a very think can wards, irreverant it's sexual you these to cases funny. activity, hold an that office UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor . source, qf Infor.mation Name City, river, mine, etc. Location. county / / altitude longitude latitude / township Kind of feature. / -- section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN MARIE in 31 BOYDEN hierarchy. the MW: (laughter) AB: Seems 6f the some MW: know, --You take happen. You becomes part of it. Right. What do you Do see you they would just die, and that's not true, a lifestyle of Mormon like women Well, mostly because they had MW: You AB: Yes. it Which polygamy, them, their that way, of MW: the There that. a was of polygamy, a they where nowhere, homes. of a Mormon Century in and things sudden that women? prevalent the They were much the idea of of it's of because were. they had and Also, because, often, be. to they didn't have you away alluded to know, course, responsibilities is all are more independent. necessity. because because middle of run as these sure today? AB: see of lifestyles their in 19th think those I some and that, think about'the difference a how maybe that's premise but I'm And (laughter) part of the theology there. be to a husband I mean men it would in them to strong, all out were to provide, women them and take Mormon of in here the terms time with the wanted help from a they independent, be the there of because -- to the to be some temporal things. women, and tracing UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor Sourc,e; q Infor;mation lame City, river, mine, etc. county altitude / / / / Location latitude longitude / township Kind of feature section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side ___ or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) 32 BOYDEN ANN MARIE AB: Yes, what MW: It's of happened interest to to her? wondering if I'm (laughter) me. have you any AB: I think of can and tradition, I AB: Her hsband really think MW: Sounds AB: She's far there like that too her marriage sort that somewhat suffered has in of v: Very much AB: And I I'm sometimes (laughter) wrong. Yes, socially part of never This is someting just think my mother's I is to very observed. I've one. myself really good Mormon, a I'm a have I not. but Mormon. it. that's really I'm sociologically and deny this. the faithful. consider embarrassed But Clear that's Mother questions and would - it. many a resents some. are faithful. culturally MW: think is Jacobson see. I -- I yet Florence them. it. from MW: few of a hell not can't yet. by it particularly another out I of part of of the On at teachings the a basic Doctrine. hand, cocktail that proportion. the other I party. think is UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Nam ___ City, river, mine, / Location county Kind of feature etc. / altitude / / longitude latitude township / section -------------------------------------------------------- town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side or area ___ involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN 33 BOYDEN MARIE AB: Oh heavens no. MW: That to AB: Oh yes, seems You AB: Yes, given lot a people of problems. some and gives them social,' guilt problems, know, you have I do. and and think I that's very much it's surface like of superficial of rest such can be seen, society on the and our precedence over ail other Mormons. have asked most of enjoyed your comments. I'm like add to the of lot a I Yes. it's because perhaps is why it's taken teachings MW: have feelings still. those MW: no. Heavens to the questions wondering if It's interview. this a I in mind, had you real have and with talk to have you would anything pleasure I you. AB: MW: Gee. I think all you've covered (laughter) I sometimes ask feminists. I certainly don't consider myself. Yes, of my women have if soapbox subjects. they consider any doubt about themselves you that_suhject. on (laughter) AB: Yes, I more so maybe every two day, years and ago. I I'm very much wouldn't have said a feminist. yes a year fact, In ago -- oh UTAH PLACE NkS Contributor Source of Information Nam ___ City, river, mine, Location county etc. / / altitude / / longitude latitude / township Kind of feature. section __ town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Name History: (Use __ Description, other side or area involved, and other important information. additional sheets if necessary.) ANN MARIE MW: Oh, AB: I 34 BOYDEN This right? that is been has wouldn't have hesitated to found I their careers wasn t t.. aware as I two hadn't women and had, have I support ERA all that developwent for you then. new a had just that's guess I time a easy as but ago, years in consciousness a thing. MW: You AB: No. MW: You AB: I think that don't in do, think I was the growth stuff do there Fantastic hard, and exception for a the time MW: You AB: Yes, I KSL anything, nurtures that and I'd nobody makes of the position KSL difference. a gotten a man it who was to you know, wasn't good thing for. I anyplace with I was considered at KSL Radio. discrimination. as I to really be They chose experienced. didn't to possible KSL the got else. worked I at nearly very nurture all this work do to to another very much money. very much money so wants to went I that's marvelous have for that and Promotion Director of didn't think was never Not salesmen, and was paternalism just That experiences. instead, man I forth, so lucky in just lucky. Church. and confidence makes fact. paternalistic about sheer At that realize. accepted it. I accepted it. I left shortly thereafter, and went to work UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor sour ce. Qr Information Nam, ___ City, river, mine, etc. altitude county / / / / Location latitude longitude / township Kind of feature --------------- town, mountain, river Origin 3 etc. of Name History: (Use section __ Description, other side or area involved, and additional sheets if other important information. necessary.) ANN BOYDEN MARIE at Journey. Ross individual that see she loaked she was I first was a'hla·ck, for south, from the men. the but it guys, she thought She was and had we she a careful position a to looked qualified interesting. to me there was to go alone or only that not I go. you think about it, if'I would have gone with probably woud been safer than going alone, have that that didn't look good, you a and The happened for open up, one, either had ever I very fact, In women. didn't find we very, fair the'most and woman, a which is kind of couldn't travel with of men there, and discrirnLnatory hing' really when life. favored, was that And AB: in my known nobody Journey is Ross Now I've time when long MW: 35 one know. (laughter) But that the was only. Very, lucky Ahd then when we another strong woman, fine example were no That's very AB: Yes. MW: Maybe it's you a strong woman. startd the agency. Shauna Addicks. Mormon and woman, we I've just been have your a solid right and --- approach to. yet that you have. there's went ahead a as very if Go down there as (laughter) we used sort of very I'tarted it with Now interesting. AB: _-- fair discriminates and didn't find any. MW: if of Mormon very tradi tional ways. For there UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Sour? f Information Nam ___ City, river, mine, Location county etc. altitude / / / / longitude latitude / township Kind of feature. section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side ___ or area involved, and additional sheets if other important information. necessary.) ANN example, awful. MW: AB: We women and Well, there to guy with a is a question, no and field, Well, Yes. think I do I yes, think a aware just do I have, MW: I see. AB: And then I until a that started You job they because against. MW: of good as guess I present and beard, to however, a very as are I lot and I said think I it's presentation, We gave we got the account, a and we've do who been you've competent important thing. an but think I women, this and There haven't there are had a the' are a of lot something is lot of women I who opportunities women. realize, didn't get of that recently. realization is really well, that job AB: Well, maybe I'm imagining that. MW: The retrospect. is that (laughter) old -- m0rning paper fromfuat ad this, about party that cocktail a ,his up good job, people who do good jobs, wasn't at met there. from your you we picked he and invited were grown in do what said, two biggest client, our Duggen gave, Tarol and 36 BOYDEN MARIE (laughter) gosh, at what you KSL got may radio. me have spinning, been and discriminated UTAH PLACE NruS Contributor Bour ce, qf Infor.mation lame City, river, mine, Location, county / etc. altitude longitude / / latitude township Kind of feature / -- section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use Description, other side ___ or area involved, and other additional sheets if important information. necessary.) ANN AB: 37 BOYDEN MARIE And since then you know, but I don't want MW: True. AB: And if it's trait. aren't I to be anything else, woman. so, a have it because of some able be but choices, this and women, day has them now, people have that's and chises the be MW: And if woman, AB': I as point. a human being, overriding thing the Mormon would might. the I me this at you then be and had I in enjoy things. associations. I love the At alienated me, important. Club. and I'm people come I the a why joiner, like resent all: the' me. It_JS that, but today, I think. suppqrtive can't be I disenfran­ don't let it be attitude about you as a always liked organizations, League. guess. Not I Church? I've I as about, but and choice, the have people attitude, all can't It Junior you guess where have to it's -- different a active I like got what life. hum. Urn to Thecurch, in my Church but. then good relationship with them a got And the Church is, not allowing that of personality other straight, glorious, a All everybody, have ever the is 4ominant, to'be to think I really believe it. men, conflict with that, of client because a have would we to else. part of that's therefore, and anything be to haven't gotten, we personality. just so.happens going anyway, the a like It I'm.neve going am we're,going ,to just certain clients are I and character my think there I having I like Yes, a the true. drink Sorority. But isn't they've that UTAH PLACE NAiI.1ES Contributor . Sourc.e[ _o.f Information City, river, mine, etc. Location. county Kind of feature / altitude longitude / latitude ..- __ ..- / __ township --- section __ town, mountain, river, etc. Origin of Nrume ___ History: Description, area involved, and other important information. (Use other side or additional sheets if necessary.) 38 BOYDEN ANN MARIE MW: You see this AB: But not being MW: AB: as (aughter) isn't Which because important, to on him you why he's had student. working for just He us, and to think to had zip. work here He's came I just he's got he his He's he's faced rest of you with life. his lot of a from notes some decisions His in is Ph.D. in the of Poor guy. ladies in he's theater, opportunities outside, some what about but the so he's choir psure He's Ph.D. been and us. and going that in the to and he's It's been right now the for do doesn't offer choir. He their about he's poor' a December, irst experience outside o£ the acadeic world, his that get married, enjoying been church, the Interesting thing. and finished whatsoever money. zero 29, to that's think don't turned back went I attitude. He's positions 4_ been AB: financial had, just he and if I t?at handle believe. wouldn't no stavjng MW: single, in think. don't I can't I been '\---...... 'd quit drinking say but My brother is (laughter) really important. is see. wouldn't I issue. basic more person a I much a gets daughters. (laughter) know. You got married, of the think were and older a and him alone. nobody thought it depression, it has Leave lot no. to decided Mother do with and was how mature Our father was weird then 28. I've we and were was in knew what up. when he the middle reflected brought 32 that. Our directions I parents they UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor Nam. ___ City, river, mine, Location, county etc. -L/ -L/ altitude longitude / latitude township Kind of feature / --- section __ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use ___ Description, other side or area involved, and additional sheets if other important information. necessary.) ANN going were do with to MW: 39 MARIE BOYDEN and reputation woman, and that as That's of a you are as strong, you know, themselves. with interesting' I the to fact, Mormon is not has that think I about didn't woman me. I lot a woman. be Mormon a with I'll attitudes that know trying woman, the of women, you to a fine but as such Mormon Church, put it in that order. problem of the was have had so Mormon about Mormon many strong Church. explore attitudes state. included. AB: I'm flattered MW: I'm certainly pleased to as do you connected really outstanding women-in the ome and because women, in are, a connected very Mormon strong that you about feelings Roosevelt, with,You interview and My interest, women for h0t were it. requested this I a in to have you verbalize"your feelings on that subject. like AB: I feel MW: I think AB: I hope MW: Thank you very much. (END OF I've it's very rambled useful. so INTERVIEW) a lot It and have really is. been rather non sequitur. UTAH PLACE NfuS Contributor source, of Information City, river, mine, etc. / / Location altitude county / / latitude longitude / township Kind of feature section _ town, mountain, river etc. Origin of Name History: (Use __ Description, other side or area involved, and other additional sheets if important necessary.) information.