Helen Stark Oral History Interview

Oral history interview of Helen Stark by Marilyn Warenski about status of women in Mormon culture.

UTAH STATE HISTORICAL SOCIETY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEWEE: Helen Stark INTERVIEWER: Marilyn Warenski DATE OF Ma.y 6, 1980 INTERVIEW: of Women SUBJECT: Status TRANSCRIBER: Marian Whittaker DATE: March MW: Helen HS: 25, 1981 let's begin by you. telling yourself, some about of the background your activities your I generation third came from Switzerland, they arrived appalled. that There was in Mt. She felt beautiful were rocks fortunate that that me a little bit about and your education have you engaged and in life. throughout am in the Mormon Culture I Mormon. and my My grandparents maternal grandmother says Pleasant, Utah, that she that out they of that could was make never semi-desert that when anything country. allover the desolate property. did have such maternal they really coped. I remember that they I feel grandparents; grew everything on place. their They had wonderful herb garden. pastry were really special. wasted but ever was everything They MW: What were the HS: John and Louisa Thalmann Hasler. A musician. precious husband just linen bring could felt is He people in Utah had musical He used of fed all of these would students. school so that Grandma Hasler had to take would the go counties who could into be play History No.6 brass bands all sure the in to that see and over again. there organ and lead short was -2- a was Claire He rest a ran they ended. course came He communities in somebody every the very up in singing. profile) and this in music. feed the relatives when of the rural kind a then have education the for professionals. later became a new Grandmother of them like Some sequence that It home the home. people got contains going. to was his to come children home after out to to that her so instruments calling lesson, practice, a Then the whole peri-od. little take a training. lived Reed, McClellan- and Lund, They of her trunk people They school. summer was grandmother's that my of his that part have young to My grandfather broken-down band Utah. and taken grandparents? of your taken out was and competent couple. a family story kept well was of. names grapes, don't think that anything I care were and My grandmother's dumplings an and apples several town (Beehive He also had coming family. My father's family impression that he hierarchy of much was They always sunset. grew a rural but Douglas in Copies are had and it lovely I Pennsylvania Dutch; children), not ride were All into closing of these Candland, never union. We to felt Utah. the mountains in on she my that he was to With my Journal and of David help, other Candland. Church Archives. He England. think, I she 17. was He wrote When felt She did we in his will that So really would or was had borne him forgiveness." never fourth a 12 it was manage take her for the mountains her. children, were she a He gave click. English. was felt were had been transferred Hannah," (who incidently acclimate herself to a he "I leave my complete happy a In all was, He married her when "to my wife, flowers. the L.D.S. My grandmother, Grandma Hannah, fifth wife. look at Documents successful mission back to a "in" with the to just didn't and get the grandparents stop compiled David's B.Y.U. at would father His I be to maternal journal book called a holt political offices. he held Candland papers "gun urban person who an setting speeches, journal, his My They Grandfather Candland's anything very Church. the of beauty. aware polygamist family. a Reading Candland. David was was supposed the to -3- 40 children of my Grandfather be sort of like the children of gentleman. landed a their father used his He become July the Fourth of was his family one was I succeed did ranching and Senator oration. do the work while to son sheep with felt always submarginal The children professionally, yet never felt I fallouts of the could not father my did that polygamy setting deprived rural system. in Mt. that really needed. tragic of the in always delivered and farm work but yet he to education that he have the One State a really geared not were mind. getting fairly wealthy Pleasnt. They the sustain them economically. really When he married my mot.he r he He a She adored her. mission the to mission broken He there. My mother People have lives. She I was the an told so states. school think I child. baby, eighteen months ca.me although her came later I my was schoolteacher. his another child was born when mission. several I welcomed. brother, Harold, and their though greatly son -4- in on even another first from that had malaria she had had arrived, I that when on afterward. keep father to own. then and home came how much she had meant unattractive later Academy He extremely competent me into his think he had I scrawny, years B.Y. terribly strong was taught first miscarriages southern in health. never was him to sent came son, she was and until was a But three she didn't twenty-eight, of which I had nine, ten to another, not was job one like mother's right-hand She me liked to get for the I made summer get to could then landed the was seemed to me that A hired another. with a herd of pregnant Then we torch had man trying that wall on came really didn't down out of water and debris orchard, and what few comforts stock carried off in the -5- wasp's of the house, our a swirling a nest whole already lambed. sent the work out after fire and burned up cloudburst a problems Sanpete County. in get rid of right use the person who thing happened to early My five brothers Some of them had ewes. flood land bad one the barn set a marginal is it I left family. financial ranch and he would be But that prolifically. of the our my woman. possibly canned for all So cooking. could Pleasant. gentleman. This that way. right-hand and We status I became work. to you solution to way a her as recipes in Mt. the run in the house clothes the ranch a to financial our garden in the out Father decided was It well as yellow transparent apples. In the My man know all to interest one that so think that children and with the learned that I sound. very for sister no surrogate helpmate the from went had I she had until another, mostly promoting mining to things stock and effect, in My father my mother. eldest. the was became, I years. childbearing cease that we water. A canyon. took had. our We We moved saw to over Mother that our quarters into considered was built was 22-gun bottles. Outside and sewing machine, the at shooting in rats I I would a shoot but celler could kill any or As grounddogs. with overrun were we child, attractive home. break any dishes not dirt. and an side of the hill. the into a at expert an them with sat of rats full six months pregnant with her ninth was she made I old abandoned cabin an I from the them door of the cabin. But family our fortunate mother. us in criticized or a on the our chores. We would sit at it." to say, I a "We have work think that that we Mormon do; we at our each other up noon that time had enjoyed We to were ideal all table at the good the We raised her voice ever did ranch, having such then have to almost was in any way and yet us all we family. as She mother. our harmoniously. there very don't think that she I chores, and get lived there father would will part of my life have was to very rich. We came go to back to Provo school at whatever, or so the wintertime the B.Y.D. couple of classes, Browning in or Tennyson that we at or all My least the -6- mother would one. history really so were we all also take She would of Israel in could school a take or together. thing One nice problem. women B.Y.U. at girls and and the for B.Y.U. models in and Mrs. At she did that graduation bonds with B.Y.U. think went school. to this play Did you HS: No, I when from for the really didn't that high girls. had Magnum, But I never neighbors did She had out on she they formed but fact that mother lost played and finger a bed at night. used to play. : we I moved here forth to the she still Pleasant except ranch. in to go with my arranged dates, and it was -7- a to try (laughter) as Pleasant? in Mt. grade in Mt. disaster. MW I women. piano technique, but to back and live in. Allen, Mrs. I would fit role women summertime? HS: know I surrogate mothers of these the school second going these fine musician a went we things in was Provo, except So you us graduate when in interferred with of the some MW: MW: also was child, play for for. women. interested She of really called, were Society meetings. would some assigned were Students Lester of Women Dean no some became were for Relief and for Mrs. Snow young all were we was the think to I community women community. don't know what they I the from home. away William J. there dresses other other the relevant especially responsible were girls is time in women so they that mother made She that just a the HS: I didn't fit into the community occasionally go program on horseback. I mother in the and flannel. that I We I remember remember one time going into or really just can and would reading a I the lived going going a to to town down with my with her store buy yards and yards of white outing knew then that this felt, "Dh, no! I point can surrey her seeing that. the ranch. on up like give and town to something or ourselves down all. at meant another just can't I At baby. wash another diaper!" (Laughter) MW: Really. HS: Mother had not born. time I with this washing of Now, welcome people. about diapers Her that a the she really she child I mongoloid I felt later when up an awful toilet. really was had no all was guess or we were something just part go that she had I in bed was about think that angry with was to she truly be very was was me. the a fine probably just lucky in was child-bearing grown up born when child howl I of these children they've and last that in I would home. set that everyone child, I that eighth when her then. at remember forty-eight. all help few times And didn't get were I realize choice. school could the out high baby new the I I thing. done my one in was that so been very well that lot. we They okay. MW: You didn't HS: Yes, Arthur give the Charles name of your parents. Candland and father and mother. -8- Lydia Hasler were my MW: Then you HS: At were just were in was MW: HS: I High the B.Y.D. focus from graduated School. college. It college. a given equal President Harris the most had scholarly Because you were HS: I in there to Marie, was be a in in a sort can't of ever an I because lot a was so we we had very were his maybe not certainly we warm. friend. dear in speech then college days So my lived We We were in drama yearbook vice-president one a and lot of and a Anna things English. year, were I had Algie's sister, were and Provo, and in things. of assistant editor of the year and Professor beginning. the beginning. the together, mainly next time time when B.Y.D. though with them that that at in the world but teachers there really fantastic chance Just year too, as you students. NW: was that Did college? college. a as that. to the was always felt We special their in come relationship a That came. into school high the like the B.Y.U. at it's identity just first class. quite was when you went college there as just gradually coming college. I went Pardoe had school pages with the Yes, on high the there days, in those see yearbook attend· the B.Y.D. took Provo? in in the So then really in was didn't realize that it to school You many students as the as high I editor the next year. We was the had in-group, really, of outstanding people. imagine our being bored. We had interesting teachers, especially Dr. Henderson who taught biology -9- I and He gave zoology. is place. marvelous a early us everything just opened did some was a research golden of this MW: What were HS: 1920 to "What on those Did you HS: I I went School the bottom of the at much clout. (Laughter). really good a Italians all B.Y.U. for Masters a That Christensen. was married thirty was and went a High in School I I went to Bingham those Serbs I came there and Then in back to the with Dr. back to Delaware where -10- way and fun to have fulfilling experience. years. was such English High didn't have I loved did We in Jordan taught I in just about what so were Degree & Sullivan. pole totem out. speech and could do Then I was high school? or I Then it superintendent. Jordan They plays; they just gave thought and down daughter my Gilbert a It thought father taught English time. Greeks. and I A copy school teach to I But fun. was At next in was there? taking school did year. the down had I even which to, I unlimited. were know my the whole bit. plays, I wanted I the was school. We ... history of B.Y.U., were place." elementary school. we time when the Kanab to David Rust David Rust teach one-act that you years is earth that Alumni House. the B.Y.U. at Then taught high high during just delighted. was beautiful. MW: up Opportunities that God-forsaken to I is 1924. I I "Student Life in the Twenties." on age. paper again thought So For Earnest Wilkinson's college. the world the notion that on, we Then lived I for married, what's his MW: You HS: Henry Stark, Henry M. generation MW: I HS: Well again? Moroni Stark. from Mormon he had gotten his PhD University of Wisconsin Company DuPont All there. bought as of an old remodeled it. I am had MW: And you had HS: Yes and children we When good time started nothing, not missionaries stray converts people Western our left, little in the because I our who were soon had book, B.Y.U. a And in Salem. in a chapel. The L.D.S. My We and were a there the -11- was few a really. for professional unit. But extended-family and service L.D.S. left had cousins. was Church in Delaware. Library and a just getting was flourishing close-knit last three they all had they Delaware to adopted souls, kindred not we couldn't have any There had been before, flocked soon I Church group with surrogate uncles we a orchard. big pattern again Delaware to came time children grew up church a We 1820 and in planted we think that I missionaries. long and opportunities up When even a same and children. three children. growing there. the so him spent there. was had been built that found out that I adopted very wonderful in joined I for the work to children? some no. life big garden a back right Chemist. five acres, We had thousand trees, here house stone from the then he went and third a Fork. Chemistry in professional our was Delaware? to Research a He Spanish near took you two and what see, name to When write Copies we a are Church Archives. So friends our particularly meant a first at drawn to our great deal to me especially "The Friends Conference met every year was just on at the thirty those ReI igion All growing edge. coming into focus for me that group. Jan Tyler was telling were The Quakers felt I of the seemed things expressed about Taylor Gospels. Gnostics way back then heard they seemed because The "We Gospel very "Gospel mysticism and rich a practicality. experience community plays, at the and Though historically and They in I did School. You moved back here lIS: In MW: How did you Wilmington. teach It is some and I say, being in what about being -12- was was in my in extension one year, beautiful year? 1969. feel from Mormonism culturally rewarding. MW: would soul. my University of Delaware, Brandywine High Jung depth differing as in Quakers appealingly combine bones, the Friends enlivened I had to that The Gnostic called mystics. were John," of of Matthew". oriented be to Quakers psychology. are about I book that a she had recommended to Anna I had wh Lch that here new be to me called group a Psychology" and College. Haverford were years, associated with on We non-mormons. Quaker friends. in I became when all were back here? classes part time country, at HS: it Well shock, really a was feel as constrained little group back there as we idea that of business would we everybody getting The L.D.S. Church little bit more my on I own. in spoiled. me, I a I said the we becoming there kids. to us a was I being put was that I were not newcomers, I the a have little people us as that were at part of the old place and than we -13- So it have it was lighted had been experience for I bit, somewhat think, I After we came, with hordes first ones is rather who now when three think just barely was famalies, shelf I guess. seven, I always felt Salem really my that accepted partly, and a astonished! was community of Provo. different become was we influx of young the was carry terrible a I didn't handle it well. So bedroom so I ward a of green made to felt just really snob. We were on completely It a accept now bishop said, "No," back to Salem I sure them the strictly sing to our appreciated was was was wanted I impression that an And ward has moon girls trio of Song." cage. accepted. because a the intellectually not had, but no book, little would have could have came am the gave I I When we and Delaware, than "Christmas Candle put into I wrote my When through went finally becoming and guidance One year candles. actually In did. we as nobody would have questioned it. cheese and So when free. very was chapel a We had shock. cultural a new of cool are all a we came. chapels. One worked I Then trying to I have a friends. win Hasler. what see moss MW: No. HS: It's sent we could do. work with shocking to me the exploit So this that has we something in the town. tried to been has that community and this is to subdue, been an uphill goal the So wet. found and generally, I wrote marsh, the 1972) "Another MW: They HS: Yes, right. should to To climb. I a article an (October for Ensign of Tithe." kind have point of conservationists more almost conservation is think that view. dirty a around here. MW: Are you active HS: Yes. in the Mormon Church now? I've taught classes in Relief Society mainly, of years couple morning Relief a lot I ago that I of pressure a history of Salem I almost lost my the was for Societies again something under feet its to across of the in the middle almost tried I Salem Pond? seen ever feeling the earth. and prevent the rubble of the old church being dumped to word Have you pond -- good stuff whose is Arthur name You could almost walk problem that His did not this and ecologist, an lakes. this hardly get among Mormons in me seven-acre a A duck could try all He Salem Pond. on cousin, fresh water is specialty pond the save Stake. testimony working on conform. That my That women. own, Just was because -14- a agent ward director of the could do to and . this and I was wasn't recently I did (laughter) time nobody would give on for it and to is Mormon from their character profiles him beautiful letter I Alder said day. I that odd how much Well publication on read my haven't, back a had made that. of food to other was a woman but made that Mormon home? in Do you influenced and any way, if so is food People like we that. see moved parishioners would blueberries or people, I and good cook; Enough, Enough?" to When I -15- called,"The II Exponent in When doing pick a piece would ward, practically. I his need to Mormonism has in I but fun or work and seem I Mormonism and womanhood. or - been extra-curricular cherries I/we traditional a being about Syndrome I had a background your Woman woman. today. me of one patriarchy. Have you HS: each of these wards good piece of it Yes. I for sent a idea, "What little the find Your comments No, sent I wrote and he was how? MW: one that profile Then history, saying You claim to have had good little it your attitudes HS: each on I had used his that from approval feel I was didn't get much response from the brethren, day. my a it frustrating. beginning. of the copy a do to the wards sent MW: Ward?" know whether very Alder because and wait everything, clear never was couldn't go ahead I and yet to and It on. so Douglas copy a cleared be to cleared having without own my direction, solid any me come for out whatever. wore always out here a had the whole and pick We'd take bags the halo of the set we bounteous good could I table. couldn't do MW: think that's I Yes. to here and canned and bottles started I You And when I had done my sister-in-law do some gifts this because just is to resistance drop in a daughter-in-law, and another haven't eaten feel her so MW : (laughter) HS: So I them yet, decided, would I it. After do it. I not but we have must "The way one "in the (Laughter) reasonable, was This is take as eat was quoted to in said I tarnished we new the my peaches, a as saying, "We it them because makes good." have done or But bucket." came aren't you going did. I So I bought was speech! "Well, me, I So I He fine. with all overrun thought I as clear up the bottles all fruit. Mormon the But when trees. the of them said, one a a just was away was fruit can girls?" the home much as said spirit of my essay, to know, that's fruit." for new this was it I did and given laden these All food. this Our things. it that tradition. had I felt I thought same September, in out the in had been reared did I so husband My the hilt. are from my maternal got my mother. and should do I I what grandmother and from thing think those Do you of Mormon women? characteristics HS: chores. domestic as I that hardly anything was that with Mormonism? identify You far as There sew. But I do this anymore. I wrote this article, I I follow not didn't feel that -16- had to still do could a it cultural mandate. don't want it but do it, do to I I will enjoy doing I So not. that think that my I But psych010gy is women II This choices. to me on "Three Meditations written in that were now getting into were losing 1975 felt they wrestled the kids in the on all the needed day, yet they It seemed of the domestic to me unless Nurture had to coin. you can The if one time that You have demand to this can't be some yourself? -17- they going now going was 1960 is written in about Mary. supposed on any me was everybody Then women the into their husbands to giving be twenty-four fill the a empty another dark a nurturer, it and out hours was privacy a They just Sabbath. no Women felt I influx of young were nurturing, never Who the back pew while They stand. sat bucket. The had force, women. speaking wistfully I Ward. Mary and Martha." support had to do with the one a piece for Exponent another on as the men's world? into poem with Martha our and provide compassion a idea of what my the work identity their me 1945 just after the War. was out did I one to MW: Quakers and depth more I freeing experience. a in meant If given had I interest anything. than called first has was for was break in the way of the Mormon tradition. myself it. some side seems chance to HS: yourself. Nurture talked I fact, thought The Lavina, to by could get one child to be whether or not to as fed. in you has with article an In she Ensign in on "The Young L.D.S. Mother and The Sabbath Principle. you want MW: Yes, let's I thing Jung right go that come to on on that. that for stand decided have has talk about to me where you HS: pro-ERA this since me that. on Religion little chart is sort draw this out you). This right upper function. side of function on. includes like is a I concept of Carl learned easier than to (I will tell it On quadrants. which is an the in He has mandala. a into know to Psychology. and the and below is feeling. top Jung claims is to the extroverted "hands" the or So a dominating person, person who is the qualities. intuition which is These that quandrants, of those shadow. is person who will a organizing, designing, overseeing, both masculine are at anyone Did . sensory doing, accomplishing, obeying, servicing, Those qualities. is thinking is . important single This of like divided is side the It Below, still right, etc. left for you. square It would the most Quaker conference so I called The Four Functions. that . that? affected my attitude has decided I have up Now both are if you is a are in intuitive artist will -18- extroverted, overdeveloped feeling. not in side becomes big boss, really be very weak the on feminine repressed the Then and a The be very good scrubbing at that That will shadow. his person, the in floor. a Patriarchy bottom introverted two culturally mandated chores nurturing, (feminine). the household keep to wants for women quadrants doing the (masculine), An emotional equals being duties side the dark be and the support system plus locked perpetual into giving. The ideal the center, is quandrants just really whole another point of Sonia and me moves what are trying masculine the about MW: The world HS: I no intuition and think that real in Church sympathy nevertheless the you have seems Church feeling. quadrants women it with seems in the to -- me is a that is nobody -- in really caring Everybody opts have been competition neglected? for macho. So we have a killing. for the symbol It side. Utah, in armed The in great the and center a center. that the here, the introverted chore people, So what structure. feminine is has course is get up into the power quandrant of the to world, am ERA movement, down the masculine on I Now that and of it from the happening is doing quandrant, out that in of those one mandala is intregration or arises. need Although the whole that the as from move the mandala lineally. operates wholeness simple rather a everything that to be able to to to real create to to reason for this identify with. -19- is that Women the are feminine deprived has of symbols, those really am." I what symbol. feminine Conference on they that so feel I have that of the One Religion no Greek the about talking Each goddesses. represent relate Athena who would the for goddess to what wouldn't go out nothing with which to now and Jung's concept of know that I me. developed This why is a I so but good am in my managers the 1 Lf e own may be out . been trying to find my own center. tip of the tip of the iceberg. intuitive, whole an interested compassionate, gamut. why I I want have their the to to I -20- so on. women ERA to me I am interested including some the who for me, So in, in intuition and search the I So only not think many intellectual, have critical. am feminine ongoing has feel is women important of touch with this to is true So like they felt I has been This feeling. would was they probably But impatient and bossy and searching for have been outer I young direct what to see, mother's "husband" I have my strong animus. a you goddesses for therefore, So, Four Functions as symbols, as our babies. identify, was and Artemis had we stands having start potential could be. real are a If goddess real recognizing of the women, career girl. young a One women. the at who woman of those goddesses, one aspect of one The some the on was of womanhood used essence for is sessions interesting "Essence of Manhood and Womanhood." "this is say, need crying a Psychology, and to way the sensory unstructured is the in what I creative, -- the choices. concept of The Authorities The whole is MW: I HS: It a "priesthood" in That's very see. is have have to the me is So that feel I have to you have have to feel you Right, that's culture, the that of denial feel MW: HS: the this is fair." are The liberated able and be MW: You find HS: Yes. I agree the side the to to the I a chance you have freedom. lives it to to To put a to seems extent how say right To it, of from the that women that they can who not "Look, so don't we ERA but much it's should be make some choices they feel about things. conforming system? a hierarchy system is But it, well, maybe really standpoint of people it's the you areas dissent. to me is 100% with your point of view. of of those some thinking. your authoriative side culture, the Mormon can't say, we take goal think the whole positive creative reasons. goal of ultimate in of the that supporter, a the ultimate Right. I fact is So you not of the one it as the You damaging. very describe because ERA privacy, people's aspect of creative the have to to creative. be to You have possibly prohibits development HS: though the right as anyone who wants you have space, the on strong problem. me. to There me. us. open-ended! it thing; do your MW: basic is lid for problem a dissent have a each of frightens get by the are -21- Church is, the you as say. think that I the that people who negative the can only bring some kind of to response I HS: He we that saying was sisters or for gave In earlier You Christine Durham. bringing honor were just struggling along creative we I might just have heard must be if lead, personal reap mothers as like Emma Lou Thayne they have it made. They see do our of own thing, and are us who are follow our own the rest But now don't get recognition in the outer, we that can thinks people to stay with well as He he mentioned that Church. the to early days, society required times people the But sisters. be can daughters. or stage where daughters in the are Church with very as foremothers, Utah as achieving daughters our by criticism made people something a lot of You gave a talk to chores. domestic people, several seem to it feel. they? HS: Do MW: Urn hum. group to which you Well, my point music or in poetry In art, symbols. I that was or trying to symbols. creativity you really poetry you have or to womens for whatever, music speak that was Reynolds the Alice Louise about belong there symbols. symbols MW: a B.Y.U. the in women either mothers fulfillment. HS: the gave Arrington Leonard at group I Church. don't think I've heard about that. historically MW: the to talk that Dr. a History the Womens MW: recognition find women Um hum. -22- .. out what are in need to art or intuitive use some in of the HS: of photographs Hopkins and rain." I started HS: I people just was good reports of sort time what on I think a in the four functions, accepts risks, conform to It seems from MW: HS: to higher you No, no. roots thought I "Mi.ne oh because is a think a water a Prophet Prophet it that and had I going I said. from note a a generic at It be i.t' s the a people of input this point in I think it quadrant of it on these it creative, open-ended, on is what is follow kind a for my term. extroverted to have asked of lot a to Well, is. intuitive. has the past, me is feminine, the talk, you sure They Prophet. a doesn't dangerous growing edge. Prophet is. Seeing things up. Speaking of prophets day send my more what by (I'm is Sunstone is think I belongs Manley don't know whether I will I invitation. this on what do with hands that about aloud. thinking and got such notes.) forum woman the rain," moved quite were recently Sunstone through old should read this send my roots heard very of lot all from Gerald was And yet cry. thought I found symbol. feminine I quote an these I Digest of was I when once "Mine oh Lord of life, to more life, Mother of Oh The said, it the it about One women. in prayer. folded last year and this the Readers looking through was MW: ill Now I have been very and so on do the Mormon Church will -23- you anticipate participate in that one ... MW: You don't HS: I teaching was something and when it that. see insight, there think that Son -- home live forgiven." was wrong the day It visitor a your knees on the he when I Blacks. says, "Maybe Holy to I a the Mother to you will had just hope the you Father, a go back maybe on Bruce your forgiveness, ask Bruce McConkie has now, about could be and here had have you really is it him, "Do to we -- compassion, is we said could be righteously from So I and that said, "Sister Stark down it thought We Symbolica.lly Holy Ghost think the Ghost. that happened so Holy Ghost And he and get if you as the do you figure?" comfort. is Holy the back in Delaware girls Holy Ghost the figure. the Mother McConkie it of teenage about up came think about we is class a say live Ghost is and be that to he see the Mother figure." MW: You would HS: No, like I don't see women participate that women need to feel hierarchy. I would nurturing. And help make like to like women have decisions some think of them to as see to men enough of be part become particularly for a more they that power ? those in can themselves. having options for wholeness. Sometimes you have to get down and scrub the floor, you have to can, sometimes do your own creative you sometimes thing regardless. to have input just need to need to be able Sometimes and into listen. -24- you need Sometimes the power Be I time you structure. comfortable in to each of those one I intuition. to move lack of thinking, doing, feeling think all around too. of the brethern need They are is their understanding quadrant belongs MW: So the HS: Each part think that the quadrant, options women for their belong feminists would have each of to is flowering. locked women I us. lowest the to Their dark side individual own a of us? should chore work. Often shadow. really consigned are be able to unfeeling. often all to quadrant of the and having not Radical power struggle authoritarian approach into a with the brethern. MW: Do you that HS: I think that Church takes the Mormon don't think it can, invasion of an scared the nurturing, power her the whole crisis. learn are so values up what his wife own needs. work.s is But from that crisis in the onto that a without I how he -25- or of their they can't shake don't know. The Whether out the That came to ERA and into or In him, tell to crisis. don't know, projection women fight. a the brethren they have. that entrenched took forcing almost image women it are be bosses. really trying was they is it chore work and just to give to the that since that article, Douglas Alder tells A bad can doing, free men about not are Sunstone about leaves first, therefore and thing is, the changed? be reasons: territory and ever can for two The other feeling this they recognize their death. to provide a the hierarchal a they not whether they feminine of it. I MW: Why do think the Mormon you opposed HS: want want MW: than HS: I power. MW: so to which is power, that up. was an they and because And their carry it Because reasons. they shadow, the men's their that feel You there that the over concern is family is not a something deeper that? Yes. kids are give to continue reason? valid they strong side. feel So you do you think territory, have to to women feminine a for those two think invasion of their didn't Why such the ERA? to I Well, ERA? the reaction to Church had family think that the It's chea.per than lot a it is is have to a have women How would you describe the status of eight (Laughter) send out missionaries. to of their extension an the Mormon in women culture? HS: A friend far sees righters, Then there Finally are there the "fascinating womanhood" the very radical the are a is it easier for fascinating womanhood Novel, "The Brothers claims the Catholic feminists few whom very "liberated/dedicated." that self-righteous We need You camp. Karamazo". Church more be to women she in the far the Grand gives people the I quoted that in my book as -26- a I right think or what matter-of-fact. the Dostoievski Inquisitor bread, mystery, and authority. MW: side. the of these. remember The other calls the extreme. one as on type women, they want HS: I not am therefore you and womanhood." diversity So you with the majority maybe leaning some see I hope that what's that we have some in my I that am I kids many going to enough my carry having Until the MW: we human That's a that get the "fascinating out of is into "I have enough best. spark that until the to in the very the power women who I am get we extent responsibility for chores, but necessary status decisions are we more are which to we for affect us." integrated going into continue all to be quo. graphic description. way. END how About about what femininity a carry is this the divine choices, think I their functions, four into in say can locked women responsibility for personal creativity, a some the Mormon say, think nurturing and feeling, and doing also is factions of these opposites can I career life." "We do come leading, do what to who honor say, to who woman about have, women they that going do with going inner own among toward reconciliation i.berated/ dedicated confidence me two unseat to up side? Yes. 1 reaching these between Um hum. a in Women's unresolved. womanhood," far-right HS: kind of dichotomy "fascinating into and figure Father of the radicals one are a I So idea. the is accept to far-right be are think you The the male. still If you I Lib, then can that but comfortable is it think that MW: of the words, sure OF ENTERVIEW -27- Nice to have it put