Algie Baliff Oral History Interview

Oral history interview of Algie Baliff by Marilyn Warenski about status of women in Mormon culture.

UTAH STATE HISTORICAL SOCIETY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM Ba11if INTERVIEWEE: Algie INTERVIEWER: Marilyn SUBJECT: Status of Women DATE: May 6, 1980 TRANSCRIBER: Rita DATE: November This is Warenski Simpson 24, 1980 interview with an in Mormon Culture Algie Ba11if on of Women in the Mormon Culture. Status We MW: Algie, to I Marilyn am tell about yourself, AB: I'll be very Yes, had a birthday years of age. schools and glad last My to. education school and degree from the B.Y.U. school politics, the I your ime born here was I was am in now our I in 1918. to background, things? of in Provo. I eighty-four Provo City Brigham Young University college. school little and those kinds Saturday. also at the also family a life, about your your education and your her at Warenski. will you take begin with, are on The date is home, 836 North University, Provo,' Utah. May 6, 1980. subject the high in got my baccalaureate I productions was of very active drama and in speech, athletics, and also in some permissible among two at schools; summer Cambridge, There may be to I at questions that anything all, MW: Yes. First of AB: Yes, fine, I'll MW: Then tell about your AB: My parents to the United converted by raised a with Johanna was a were grandpa, later my Simon Peter happened time. I NOw, ought to were. to. eight of as was converts orphan an Egert when she My grandfather came the to was and had been there and he heard the of the handcart they when and Lars Eggertsen joined the Church married, father's that to this moment girl but he pharmacist Thompson summers. involve how I with her parents States one two one marriage. Annie Nielson and attended tell who your parents happy be very Denmark, in missionaries they if at Church from Denmark. L.D.S. plains may fact, in My mother Eggertsen. I marriage? about my were College previous did wondering, Marilyn, was were days. in those the Graduate I they as California, Berkeley, and in one be there and what tell girls the far as were came companies on and that father here and the is across and met plains. the the Then family in Provo. His of my name was Eggertsen. Then my father, Nielsen Eggertsen, second child. Lars A Eggertsen, married were son was born -2- in and my in mother, 1892. Annie I was the 1894 and I was born in 1896. My father it called then. was served well. father came continent. shortly man over an came mission a performed was located for a family, was he Harvey Cluff, educational The Church at the asked and then to go to the of the take state in those there were that time. -3- not a sending high very was days. a Springville. in Presbyterian High School, was the was that had been built because there B.Y.U., over a I of the There very concerned because Springville people children to the to of the on that, after background presidency system of that city. was back and went the Springville and studied there Shortly in young in the college He came the B.Y.U. by a Clairey Business College quite important Presbyterian School at whom the B.Y.U. at business a definite union between church and County mission, his his They assigned him, attend to half, a teaching is taught Ypsilante, Michigan. year and the B.Y.U. Denmark and home he married my mother, marriage. called in think this Many to as show him around the to educator and capacity, was with his Europe to on Academy, the B.Y.U. at previously. was It East. went After he had after his with He When he he had met My father educated was their rather than to school in Utah The family time Father old. years here they brought Some of them had came to long historical find out a joined everything story short, he could to there see good school; in there. happened This with the was university overdoing together. has now MW: Oh, yes. AB: I fact, they his desire to become the think that traveling here at While he is so you good it of them. things happened that That in was could have was a very into conflict and they felt he community was initiator of what one were but of the very as two finest of available, Springville -4- and he the of the very were in the teachers because there photographs that thought fascinating know, a didn't worry Art Exhibit. some it, of Springville exhibits of paintings, he make to they my father bring of them division that Dad He coming couldn't unify it the B.Y.D., there, was hope had community. aware if he had very bring to They in some a was schools. School. the to Well, very much was Presbyterian and wanted to. uniform attitude toward about the that And been here. under education with the great a During Springville. Church, the they My father community. four number of families a culture into the new if were liked previously relatives who had did There from the east who came about was 1906. there until was Springville community. that when I interesting things happened very some Springville moved to they were first part of the present museum, and that there course, Provo were the B.Y.U. at they weren't father know that back, come that time. at and he just went too two-year teacher's assignment. time, first but he important very annoyed very passed they father because second a run to a on the I and was Republican was elected after the term. He the head was schools, Provo, proved and purchased on us one five years they schools, very the property that's -5- happy me old. and my She father. for He had they didn't Well, wanted. the and went the Weber asked to buggy and county taking capable was happened so horse to they think I come was had Letters It election and second all by vote to the he She relationship in ticket because of their later which made about be very to the lost Now, this is that he was, in her get them to candidate and he was school felt communities people the were He B.Y.U. little too broadminded. brother with her. visited Those him to become elected. time after mother went into various a for the ran time. the attitude of the at for him to elected. were of let life because mother became very help to So he second between them and the felt he was, the the won in my trying active in our superintendents when the days sort they called schools. for the county superintendent they anxious what on in it here about So Of thing. nice a jealousies few a such was have he second on to Ogden County back to because dad had adjacent to where we are and where frugal, stands today. home our City schools it's rather important because I what mother did sacrifice for him, to and work hard to see think I very much was for superintendent of how much she help him, to the was that's about my father. Now, twenty years. and were superintendent Then he became the hard workers. of the Provo and mother He of aware was willing might that he be elected. MW: Probably planted AB: Pardon? MW: Probably planted AB: Oh, I'm Both: (Laughter) AB: Indeed that some some I'm sure, . . . ideas sure. is very I'm going true. sip of water, if that's far away from myself, don't tell you a is it MW: Oh, AB: When I I 1915, get started, I Now, I I get must because that's what much time. and took anything some classes student. continually be to else. and mother would tonight know when to unwind. never high school, graduated in hard-working did myself too little a for my voice. (Cough) I? Maybe I'm taking take to no. was us right, all little bit about . politics. about I say, we college got remember "Now, unless you have your -6- high in so our in 1915. I you don't go that to first." was encouraged lessons before vividly lessons Well, school father and mother Our sure in from we father Mutual That was a one of the see that predominate done. was because they learned as I graduated I me considerably for us to college, is this told that the mission. I such always Brimhall didn't with my class young didn't this He man want is was a that to mission, a man, I it would be MW: Dh, AB: Yes, I between me to little bit, and you must very demanding I had and I that go." and strong go home and talk to talked for you to go." that existed at and my parents, finish have decided we say very good a that and said, "We've already won't talk about the conflicts moment person, me, a said, "Well, I'll And he think liked very, and authoritarian. parents." they 1917, pardon I and teacher's a wanted I Sister Eggertsen, of I that go, I just told President I said, "Well, He go. authoritarian. and - thought I that kind forceful my 1918 of to want on forthright very a go 1916 in in 1917. graduate to me strong that way, and I we in But part of my history, a school wanted was to that sure in 1918. said, I as little too a be us into the office of President Brimhall called was with finish the year 1916 and to was stayed had could. we as from meantime, the they very anxious were much It for motifs that but I to them Well, that obeyed them. you did? was and I went. homesick and I had a lonely. -7- very difficult time Then at first, something happened to I me that it what you want you call Sometimes happen. rigid, principal. hard wanting to you that young see lady he said, "Well speak you to so close." and I mission, to." and AB: I they I good a I did," this way, around him on dancing I and I they got my eye want the is anything was the returned from first dance he has to me, so watching me, I shoulder them on having. were said, "He just mean principal tapped girl, said, "Do and he said, "Yes, I time this guess didn't the very a young a was that's dancing and holding dance were Christiansen and I him and tell him that he mustn't dance to When That around, they when noticed what Principal close?" too stood, good time, a there man the first At Christiansen, A.D. There I dance and have that young MW: principal, the was. Academy, Founders Day, official dance of the Ricks standing by don't know what it I to, think it had to I I'll let can't say, well, I strange. very was when he went up a been came to him ••.• (Laughter) .•• and overdid new I it. teacher they were came up to would you course, told him. I straightened He Every time they passed standing there very careful. me and please to almost little timid and scared to death, the end of the dance he me, surprise asked, "Miss Eggertsen, me how I danced with him. love affair which ended up, this poor Toward my show so all in -8- should dance?" That our was the marriage. Of beginning That was of a Ballif, S. George and in France that came school then. in love with him and had distraught but understanding despite went, you see, called to go to 1917 until he the there at then he and were we we to help door. married. study me here and him. And, I while I went to in 1920 and I course, Now about myself, -9- class. good so George I graduated, Then he It was teaching, and he teaching for a summer he I school from I little bit a nineteen. It was in World War was and and he early girlhood, my was and very there, and that's Now, stayed teaching. quite was oh, here, served That's the family home. started. high very much was school up was and 1920 was every of was year; summer, then he went back to here. teaching, being of married. were I family were, new he because I married qualms about staying I early life, graduated, Harvard So see, you finished his even high because the B.Y.U. were we disappointment. released. was early womanhood, before they their war. of my romance on The 1918 with this in later mission a dissolved my association with last year of the B.Y.U. to came then, of course, in Provo. man about me, had his on and he hadn't The next year, another young was war and of course, home, Now he The England. 1916, was just returned from who had a was There married the were woman only no and way I stayed in the house could next That's the way it all guess, you had better ask me after you taught AB: You're doing very well (Laughter) for pursued married he were not tell (Laughter) important things. the most MW: I'm afraid I'll just wind up and questions. You, then, far. so education and you his while and a Umm hmm. .then you had MW: AB: Uh huh. MW: Yes. AB: As I'll tell you about them. said, I children? some graduated were we married 1920. in and he went back to Harvard stayed and I the summer, here and two taught. and summers, 1921 he In on a scholarship, Then I went back there took classes at in Radcliffe College. MW: Dh, that's why AB: Yes, and that year, you come were very, was see, there? and there's three years think, I Berkeley; they go to That'd what they advised him to MW: He pursuing law? AB: What? MW: He pursuing law? AB: Yes, yes. was was So he did was Dh, I and I I did have we decided persuade him, the Western Law. do because he knew he didn't say that. that and I went through, to they have, last Wasn't that good? settle in Provo. wanted Then the very very nice. happiness and, much to my to you on Law teaching. had been with him in -10- was his Then, field. in Berkeley 1924 he from and became pregnant practicing pleased, they him, because what a my of mother and care of that was mother; she early marriage, child. and then my My first child second child only eighteen months thirteen months after that walked man Eggertsen Ballif, second (Laughter) AB: I wanted MW: You wanted a AB: Then after that, 1926. in in son) is my 1927, only in to he 1924, along came 1927, only Then in (and I'll have interrupt, was So and my born she take to born. thirteen months the George after my Oh wow! that way. it lot know how that Grethe, in 1932. educated. Utah. in Algene about helped. I child, Joan and was after, but knew took lived and I didn't have I was happy very were so they with him child. MW: Ane about first my here to of their doubts capable, very was was daddy Well, daddy. child came my mother and was I and Daddy wasn't well; care young lost all very fine person he my George Of course, had then. first our they got acquainted once marriage. second Then baby a and home, came law. were have to of 1924. September born in start I wanted and Christmas on, my I ready, was you of kids? of course, happened, daughter, I did before the lose I don't Grethe Ballif Peterson Algene graduated also one. fifth month. Now, that's my children. George see. graduated -11- Now from the from the they've University University Then was born all been of of Dtah, the B.Y.D That's up .. from the home off starting MW: Well, then you went things AB: Yes. MW: And, their on besides do to on me interesting very some mothering? your I would so and Now, you ask all. and careers flying homes, own questions. more some nest, their having and and marriages their to from graduated and Grethe from the B.Y.D., my Joan like you to go tell about your and on activities. AB: Well, this I became is family; our been the head years. I board. You cooperative, to do husband, course hard. in do Yet, oh, We 1929, had the husband, died I always heart, in had it, Algie. We we were building or the property to build then, by by that then because and even so my father They always wanted cooperation and my always saying, "Of help will all you; struggling, struggling time of the "Great one school always that was for twenty for the old because having Dad was 1927) he started little and he had us mother But (He bless his can schools run three years she and my things. you ahead." just '32. before he died. me 1935 to in I had all my children was in City the Provo see, born was schools, loved the we urged Grethe time. she of was community-wise very active very, two on -12- go so this home that we're Crash." cases, here. and I had then saved daddy Like he did in a gave for all four children of his girls, four the But, oh, elected. children with know, district, Provo was Of course, women were being of kind see in the Provo and divided City of accord with me, help salary of It people, loved I liked men, against and And when Dr. schools of for which I was on was so same of them I are feel have -13- Moffitt Provo, he inequities some women the that worked with I very very, was thoroughly enjoyed inequality schools. certain unfortunately because the the clear the way that still in good a was I discriminated some superintendent were I me. of all. worked with it hard. a big a were it so stop, you was boards was took the I and very that as felt so I tried my the the men, was existing that, came and I be to right women the loved I I grateful. the level was it but get these other members of the board, to able to to teaching loved teachers most to it liked the work. I women best school districts, helpful educational and I would and and I 1935 and I in we - community. elected and because and car, five different in prime opportunity of hard work. lot a district, in my too. fifth of the I in the me places at did I a stay in Provo already moved had school board for the filed finally was see, you wanted to is; the boys that this, So away. they if - in We were would have There men. that had existed and still showed in existence capacities now for superior administrative work far appointed. had been there's family a MW: Right, I've AB: Well, AB: of the some that men always the argument, Because there. heard that before. this woman's single, you won't go into the arguments MW: to know, and, of course, Well, lasted we •• (Laughter) which I had .... five you scheduling, and I or I so mean for active me in local George Ballif politics. into came been on, on Pershing and he the at just one know what went administration, down the to for the state all you term should be it But time I was he had been interpret so he the was very when a and he knew what He was had for General came for peace. back with the Of course, you Woodrow Wilson's of his great pronouncements, League of Nations. and last interestingly enough war, and fight to during and voting, adored Woodrow Wilson. occasion, on same family front and had to great, great desire course, the But the Democrat, and he had been going of my when there on and at took the type of of the board members. resign to twenty-five years, of the sequence the dates turnover, you know, time changed denied two years was changed because he the for when Governor Lee But he that for elected see. administration, the know, really was five years, every over I terms. raise. to sometimes -14- I George would take went one up of and of the children with brought party and we both into us politics became very active. locally, where political could take I work. So became care of my children and do out as District' a then Chairman and then the Precinct Chairman and Committee, member of the National becoming missed of the National That's one. but it I felt right, and stayed home at have demanded home as even more my have any was children doing. son), he son was a they by vote the third first (I It a and I they them. for of my to be very needed was needed I children, proud had the three daughters when he polio epidemic -15- me didn't when this child, I it would family in my all was good thing a care seemed problem of mine the time of the taking in and what wonderful I Because and up always planned I into was time. growing were and was it leaving considerably me difficulty ran time of which I it did. that particular loved them so, Then I one Committee Woman good thing a afterwards that then. I at a as It's really strange that it happened won't go into. that way, and interesting episode very a of the one Party and I, here started I the Democratic on He in the State Democratic leaders my arguing League of Nations. for the This and debating and he would be me of and I me and was stricken at that swept Utah. one He big basketball team, month of August he long tragic story he'd by walk ever it. Everything We on put AB: made the into a big laundry walk and blistering just lot as to well the he He as All I that was have to a B.Y.D. someone to said my husband be woman and bedroom, a them in and put care and all. on of him. thank I me, who family. He is able time I was so tell on he used to many the board. -16- as on this, was play to the understanding you look much. so was Professor, appointed does a but not away and there so and he that's So school board passed another did. we into helped in my and here, plays golf when he to in basketball, story. women. died, walked could be. he does. and in him and do, took We therapy for affected was could have these I them him. if • Oh, a bring and Father and those that in me, as so study a won't go into I we Heavenly quite but Kenny packs, my healthy side advised to took him to Salt Lake he right could, we that's wondered we were side without Well, while a in the and good, we We to for the on Of course, His whole hot blankets believed MW: because center a that the kitchen steaming stricken. was everything did We was and very tall and again. that. his old and he sixteen years was Dr. tennis that But an fill his when it Because comes Emerson Merrill opportunity and for unexpired term, times, "Oh, is school board very fine man, a a if there was I only I'm the only woman, have they think they do is treat to know." He'd say, the way it now." is they another ought appointed approved it. She a We had had admired her community talents about did, and did Well, again. then It fifth woman and together. more a you worked we She things is about on I the very a couldn't make we know, she'd music, always appreciated I was decision-making with fine immediately, is Her husband Hospital, distance when a sensitive about on think of course, point her of view, get along beautifully. a strange thing happened came fifth district. be elected a She knew much it. than I we but and very judgments at who association there. marvelous committee concert musician, fine just a I story She fine person. very So the board and then the head of the Utah State psychiatrist. the was another tape. on superintendent be the to (That's somewhere be told to said, "Let's get I of Rachel Henager, Henager. Owen like feel I it will be better." appointment the the the wife of Dr. our about me." men," such fine but appreciate it, I in there then woman suggested which and I that, that's worry about are to said, "Well, and he said, "They He have they nice when all person," a always worrying are so "Algie, don't said, "Yes, and I was like me be to over time I for her lived here. officially to in the Well, now, -17- I be - this elected which fourth, just and her affects felt and that people she women was the lived she would worked real in hard for out, I Of course, it. couldn't. You that see the B.Y.U. at her. to run door which I would have done. unfortunately and she hadn't been for years, But there Unfortunately her and it was This absolutely is just loved her a very me, oh, slim thing, they don't were margin. incidents want like this with me, MW: (Laughter) AB: You'll have this part to the Archives at Louise Reynolds. school and English that have she was that reason. all We her defeated hurt, about never by hurt the same there But affected my You'll another time. biography and the B.Y.U. Now, college. classes against life. get I'm afraid. have of my work the board. on Now, there's another long story. through know of respected men Of course, women I the felt, well, it's I teacher against excellent. Well, fine. to was was the board and the terribly, so That She correct. just got along We very, on ground. that on a active Mormon that woman people he got an fine some used he I that's her business. and finer Christian a than she. too. she had and somebody encouraged But and isn't go shouldn't go. Henager the fact that she wasn't Rachel to I for her district was supporting women to right me advised They didn't go from door didn't have the I and and I But it think it's it relates it goes back to the Alice Louise vital so in my to tape in Alice days of Reynolds taught literature classes -18- is in high high some school and college. For school. high never the daughter and she the from She had one and U. just completely world, her took liking to woman delegate Chicago. She few of U. I of senior in a was who A woman, opportunity being was she and and was we became me. Suffrage to She aware was Convention all She a in of those strong democrat, a she and particularly. I that went woman a the B.Y.U. encouraged the Woman's at that would course, because did, she and me degrees who got don't know that the A.C. back to came in She traveled women and, of I students to representative lots fascinated me, of the a of the She then. started while great person. a outside of Utah be the B.Y.U. take her me polygamist family. a was colleges let George Reynolds, the Church Historian, of was was who had had married, had Europe. she Now college from literature classes she reason some She too. Dh, dear, that's right. liked my husband very much. a as I won't tell you all about that part of it. Both: (Laughter) AB: Well, This she anyway, is influenced interesting, me more than one know. can on one occasion, the National Educational Association was coming Utah for their National Convention, Association wanted to have organization woman to was some and in Boston do by and the Utah Educational be the host. high school something the to name -19- They had students worthwhile. decided they get into the There of Katrina Trask and was a she had established League." School Peace and her woman, She was high school that they in any High competition me, men you know, something struggle to must tell for University." said, "No, they pled it. students There was sensed Reynolds down you." it She to So was a Some called see with did, I not a from Reynolds just pled contender for it. Miss from happened it Now state. in student a and settled, me one day Algie, I've got me said, "Now, I'm having thinks I a should be feels He girl it to Fortunately it one of the really wouldn't a that won't take that, just I in Tabernacle. Ogden. College, took It Now, this was seventeen, and I have the medal upstairs. won that. -20- be made her boil. East place in Side So I went High, in the 1913. They She won't stand for it." concede to her wishes. from Westminister boys. represent the Brigham Young with them and worked with them until had to schools from the close of school. at come did very well. quite right She estate. with administration here at the B.Y.U. President Brimhall They a wrong. "You something be to after that I was said, and be to single a complete and wanted entered it and Miss Shortly won. just hear in the town School held to the B.Y.U. to came the B.Y.U. woman, every National Education Association to opportunity an wealthy A very "The American as father had left her his giving Convention young foundation fund known a finally with and boys two Salt Lake Imagine, could hear me I was and I I : AB: I then, has special meaning You then while Of course, Next teaching, was to was just was but, MW: Yes. AB: Because mother had six children and in the church. woman MW: That's AB: You wonder wonderful a why Yes. AB: How hard we MW: get was a great bright like Alice had. on she my was was wonderful a .. very active in this Memorial Room? Oh, room, The Alice Louise she tell you that. to very, so worked to get a had I story and became I with the brethren. even So Reynolds Alice Louise MW: we'd she hadn't gone know, you everything. and my mother Oh, graduated when I part, a life. affected my teaching, inspiration intellectually. woman, you. has marriage, and my she mother, my I to Reynolds how Alice Louise see and I very a love Reynolds, Alice Louise it. That's exciting, that my, we and difficulty didn't think for we asked Reynolds the for Room more. the at a we had while (Laughter) Brigham Young University? AB: It's in the that's Winning for me story a wing, new in itself, know, and in we the American School Peace as a person. with my husband school, you I wanted When during to go I went the library can't go into that. League did something back to Boston to be the summer see Katrina Trask. -21- and and going to summer She had also written played of the parts, one interesting give which she had Commons MW: Oh, that I it gave woman, speak to me Salt Lake in the So for so was and Tabernacle, the Boston on right? the on • of. copy it was ••• is AB: a planned and I play The elderly an was here on Well, war. She She gracious. talk that I gave that of when I met her. most was put was leading part. a show the horrors written to but about peace which play a Utah Day, 24th of you know. July, I Transcript." "Boston because it, did she found out picture and my (Laughter by both) about in the was But, you know, I'm telling you these little things. MW: Well, that's significient. AB: Alice Louise MW: Reynolds, possible for me, You have been so see, you beautifully, interested those made all and in women's things loved her I so. issues, then, most of your life? AB: Yes, MW: Before have. I we issues, the AB: Oh, MW: We MW: get into talking about wanted Legislature, yes. to ask you, Goodness, you did go Then we'll (Laughter) was of the women's and on run for yes. said. .. What year some didn't you? didn't get that about AB: I that? -22- talk a little bit AB: That MW: And you AB: I for two I wanted term. But party's was I terms. to go party didn't. my desires that I John helping him teach Association of you know. In history at had him I expert, good majority I could of MW: Stayed AB: Stayed ought I in did, very Well, AB: Maybe you MW: Well, I charge in. the B.Y.U. of in their it, AB: I was all he schedule, he, being and won right. with But, I an a know, .. house, a but do. to was little bit briefly. want that How much fifteen ask some right. all about a Then I few other things time do I have? more minutes so ... questions? Why don't you just list of your other some activities because I know you contributed in the who A very contacts. he won, But which is if I'd have about we Brimhall, my the house? tell you MW: me, over stayed in the to come and Women had I and for the American class a University fact, I disobeyed when I fine person with whom I had excellent then like felt procedures the was against I Wilkinson's administrative teacher of a and This run President Ernest L. advisor and it, with the third for the Senate ran in the House. on acquainted had become all. Legislature? in the were in was 1959. in was so much here community. Well, I have. Yes, if I can Well, anyway, let's see, I -23- only was remember President of them all. the Utah School Board Association and that for experience Lucille Petty terms. two again. woman Association which has grown into a very Then, I was of teachers. organization Poliomyelitis in the vaccine They came. who had had all MW: Yes. AB: I organized going to that. that committee these was build it's used for my memory cross MW: sort I know you have important take to something Board important also that the on on, leader a had I a son of that. else. I were poliomyelitis, It Now, hospital They one. care squashed of a you know. placed was very a knowing me problems, hospital a but Governor Lee but to Then I president, for of Utah when the Salk Venture came organized the Utah School organized She been first the was fine very a only it had because me was built, was had something then. also been active in the American Legion Auxiliary. AB: Very active. to the State I I Grethe was born George and I talk against peace in had and also certain lover, war. That offices the National was ambitions, Time has and he He from local felt they proved that he was -24- -- I got more because too were that. just couldn't believe couldn't get the auxiliary when Ane interesting but up Membership Membership Chairman 1932. sure. moved I National was idealistic, I'm a the, Presidency Chairman. such was He was dedicated in women it, I than he to could get would help very, very active. and which to us having I idealistic for the people MW: (Laughter) AB: Uh huh. MW: Let's get to AB: Oh, (Laughter) MW: First AB: that, moved also into to Society to a But I patriotism learned little bit too a with. working would be liked Society and period was happy wanted to too, of take Board. up, I Yes. -25- a oh I class dear, during we on But and be science taught was That's when you know. then be Relief to social forgot, growing and the School Board. literature and I little a Then I chance. me started I and teacher, School then for ten years Society fourteen, just by on in right? say I have! was They Society. I area, organizing state of Am I was Sunday President when I and we you have been active should I other I Relief MW: that, the said, "No, classes were lot were we - School when I but Relief childrens' that suppose? I teacher." Relief So war. were us know to Oh, heavens, teaching Sunday before want we Church, (Laughter) that your church activities. all, the Mormon a in my heart. deep movement allover the went that the both of of of the horrors see afterwards yes. type of some wonderful time and a very was favor to men one a in the my of the the Utah County had this whole I AB: And that was served there good. It was for ten years. It very when the children they'd the church and would take (Laughter) mama. beautifully. a So of care did visiting teacher he George, of And, since thing I did. quite a few things, Rampton appointed but never be to me I served with Mr. then there was good change. dispensed wanted I with and Holbrook and then I Services. was was I four years, that I urged was me I'm AB: I sure was there and, and to one I In 1965, thought it, and as far for me. I hope I out Governor felt I I as in called was Gunderson and that it was The commission was I a commission with Mr. 1965 until 1969. from I've been That's another the Division of over of course, old. course, of the commissioners change. changed took worked out Holbrook and Mr. do to experience MW: too a girl, always wanting was That's what it change made, a mind. one the Department of Welfare. then. and Well, I'm leaving 1965. in to concluded my work in the I with the Welfare Association. was time the The oldest just it state That at I me. I'd take them down and in there. that. ever right was But, anyway, I for there with their crayons sit they'd stay their paper and Algene, little, were good very Family Now, told Governor Rampton shouldn't do it, I know it was that a but he great helped people. you did. very sensitive to the needs particularly to young women -26- of the poor, who married too young or had to marry opened didn't marry and babies or up hard in that everything understanding problems. appointed to Status then But, here, I face we there, was I have a and a these I was by forgotten Roosevelt gave that Mrs. appointment me all the on of Women Commission. didn't realize that you had had that. MW: Oh, AB: Yes, I MW: What year? AB: Yes, I was leave the Commission for Health Facilities President Johnson. about my to little kindness a period while this During and in the way that intelligence more with place along one have we I worked helping. and It that I'm particularly anxious that else little germ of little That's area. coming. problems for the me understanding of in the welfare so door to new a were I was. I was. just a was year or the Education on Committee, years before. two the time that President Kennedy was It was that and right assassinated, at you see. MW: Umm hmm. AB: And that's the Roosevelt, whom I had met twice at Salt Lake letter and serve on accepted once a time that at telegram that and and of Women very month for about been on it with Mrs. introduced her conventions. from her. Status was our I had She asked I had six months. I had or a nice if I would Commission, which delighted. -27- So once to Then at I go back about the time of assassination, of the know. Roosevelt Mrs. that had someone serve from the west there were MW: My, that's AB: It was an educate to And my, My, they I did. but I was MW: (Laughter) I AB: Oh the that was the Roosevelt, no, it one think everyone benefited. President Kennedy Peterson, to when Mrs. take of all I'm of our sure committees' you've it's And lists committees our seen in all American Woman. of all George, . • I my husband, was the It's endeavors. it's called The it, the in So Kennedy gave to President we why, sister Esther my chairmanship. the over Then me. in book form. MW: Esther, asked in the White House and compilation I did considerable I wasn't strange, when Mrs. Roosevelt passed away, with and there. strangely Then grateful for, most am good writing, and while went to me. that I opportunity Washington They experience that I met. women on thrill. a beneficiary my! I was the Education Committee. on don't know how much reading and it, educational some superior some just helped of the head was you us, Committee; that's how it happened. the Education wanted completed (7) it course, libraries and the . Yes. AB: are substance, an compiled our in it findings, unusually fine, I and all, and and work that all this we did. don't know whether, -28- I That was don't believe that I've got : that doesn't matter, Oh, We don't need it. on AB: Well, that's good. MW: I wonder when, for women's AB: my! Oh word high school, she did me don't know. out about interesting can't look to say is, Oh , AB: I went when after I I things up any bit, maybe too of course, did never more. this, the But in of but it I've got up. can't my I one that, see a then much, won save came I I say was got this medal, I Of course, maybe me in was then I became very active Federation of Women's MW: working go with Miss to she'd let think that that to try and look that up. I and college, women. used I to, little a Then in the debates it. about have been obviously you Now this was, take (Laughter) told the dates methodical so her, last year of was be couldn't from the time you. listen to and you've because you know I had two. or know, you rights But Raynolds to I see, you couldn't read it. down because I this write in swquence, things to any more, thing I want the Utah Clubs. uh huh. allover need for long before MW: Dh, yes. AB: You know, MW: Yes. an the state talking admendment, and, the one that was -29- you about know, defeated. women that and was the proposed AB: And, American that women of these some Sure. AB: They just talked about in suffrage the the I almost memorized Anthony like Susan B. others. and lives and You know who I mean? was like I pretty good job, and everything went fine that way. Then, allover. me that of course, particularly hoping that that I understood what they were. beyond go lived enjoyed. Now, President capacities their This in. did I of the of women organizations. was You was But anxious something our ask me because I was to get the about, so women I've always tried and and when I divic and questions to help the world see thoroughly I that, of Auxiliary in through it four walls lot a I wasn't defeated. was it would go information out to I it wouldn't. knew Esther said was protective I of this. felt a they the really wanted doing women why very active fine women; Cady Stanton, Elizabeth MW: were of course, And, movement. reasons and all of the mothers rights of many of the know, you did I talked it when I about the patriotic and I will be better. MW: You're doing describe the AB: Uh huh. MW: Would you AB: Well, yes, very well. status like in to a define, because is think the -30- this, how do you in the Mormon culture? women It ask you me talk to that way. I of Let a subject for a very difficult last few years while? thing to have made me feel that thinking and bad that too right Was •• 1977. AB: Yes, uh huh. know. was it two when I ill, was that didn't sister, Esther, attended here to te.ll what just let I to said this us some happen." wasn't the only And, one No. AB: Jan MW: Yes. AB: She had announced herself Amendment and just gave us you know what we was here, rallied strength to she's gone she was as so as it all. was lot. to I facets We of didn't and when my came by taken back and they did. I we can't at that time, this way. know, from the B.Y.U. for the around her, know she through -31- were said, "Why, I felt you a me of women, believe, that got enough convention and friends, I to there performed women I mesh at phases that MW: (Jan Tyler) that to seem two of my but but he read happened, think Utah to couldn't read very much, I wrong, was other, hurt But, all very concerned about eyesight, lost my something thinking heard, understand each so conscious. sex so And sex. ago when the IWY convention years When I My husband knew that our have become we of their cause ? MW: '72 their to in their women than the average American the time I got very, at of this. in give from more capacities their has had to woman it's anticipated have I was Equal Rights a few of there. us. It Of course, better than I do. So I had just something. board, Yes. AB: In talked I you we felt that the States, as well a had we of a to the women, were wife, those that fundamentally Amendment, which to we until hope. a read into or and recently. I So and tried we think I have been very been, active. family had all the in but you would be critical. We brethren if went Of course, very affected the of women. -32- things help of and they they don't try it. have been afraid I fear he was complex, was nice I active to always that in dignified our way, could criticize the few homes would status a union a freedom in the world talk and do it thought they it's kind My husband Our we status, The two if of my always critical, could say to in well out am was You ebb, Equal Rights in the but he home. low very a really interested, that aren't have in the United women. degree, way. school for, it's good amendment, a I at was work to men were things it well, so little nucleus a women when you interested is organized, I trying are became Utah, in together. go the on was of status Of course, you husband and have got here status. partnership just you because if So from when I see, as whom I knew women Taylor. Ann and Fern doing that, these to of them teachers some MW: that I had to get out and do feeling a too far about allow that. I felt all my something. That has life that you have got We have happy. there is got you're or in not society our Now, I don't know if I growth. no diversity have to opinion of have differences to or getting am down to what you want. MW: Yes, you are, Mormon AB: Now, MW: Why I sure. leadership want think the do you Equal Rights Amendment? the opposes why know to again. say that do yo think the Mormon leadership is opposed so the to Equal Rights Amendment? AB: think it Oh, I the priesthood worshipped know what's power or when I inside of we seriously. something like want together. about the this. At patio by in my if he would be that time he not so very, ·was I've had one time my husband bishopric, a the candidate Utah State Bar Association We were to always in home when -33- they I them, he Europe, listened came. tell must to presidency to go and we visited here of course, didn't leave and I just our of never on ask him Sunday School. for the and, going was or wonderful, very the of I've all. at three there and I done fear among a examples, two Superintendent was can't do it." life But the supreme a authority felt because my husband were is to that, in I'm very careful and think it I that the God I is, faith may, we interpreting are say because you don't to what my or it what Call say this them that me we the concept It's hard feel. God. a beyond far idea would that fundamentally is At of the said, "No, too. in like Then I got I was I've to I bishop, "Well, serious as they while thinking, could teacher, retired excellent." I organize beautifully, how to Sunday School." wonderful about her and what her in ward and astonished. He do not hold the our MW: (Laughter) AB: I thing MW: AB: could a She looked He knows told him her and retired. at you know that priesthood." just of even said, Well, I think of that." a would be said, "Sister Ballif, said, "I didn't I just of everything. and was just was name a you would have praised I I this, "She said I and name she had have." to said, "She I woman. unfortunately say said to the I and I mentioned be, fine a and ought know who you I I as talking, were sat That is lived me women back the worst for him. (More laughter) But, now you see, because what a it's more that was was that because woman Students have had, the come have we and go, Once happened when I could go to the person to go and third cousin there -- Temple such thing was was wonderful opportunity in and our me they ward to transient ward. a (Laughter) very difficult wrong. are That hurt know, it's really transient, you than mobile. a off. me men but we've had every try hard, have we triggered that And for hopeful that because the they wouldn't and me something very a I thought why it similar to certain person family let her go because her husband had -34- in that way, wanted -- not this been this was a through Temple. the ·Priesthood, are you're listening like us, probably the time and always willing a our then you questioned, Yes, AB: Am I wrong? trying to, am come, happening opening that in once but believe are while, a have I a I and opening up we can I think that in you're annihilate almost the mother, if You I beyond live and how to I'm feeling better about see afraid. I just see all a ray of just can't help agree I there think I tiny things little don't know that, Marilyn. and are fundamental so the door with because female in the eternities. much, but We chance to have a is think it's my life and I'm not I that the time will this. correctly. accept it and That's the thing, that which I it all theory. revelation that's the thing. light see, you listen to mistakes don't have. immediately MW: it. we would have we think I from life and We make me. and which If you don't Church. whole told, problems, of the one to so Marilyn. see, you they don't think we (laughter) rebuttal is be to for me, But sometime I wish from realities. it. woman became I the brethren are, isolated, so difficult over a Church, the in the very was I'm somewhat Of course, they it and for her. go of the power aware didn't know I only she could couldn't go, suddenly didn't know, I is a male of this I see and is a so I'm don't know whether I should do all of (Laughter) -35- MW: Well, then Both: (Laughter) AB: Well, all, after you know, that's the only that you way that get, how people worry and think about things sacred very That's the way AB: I think so, Let's see are them. to MW: MW: we in trouble. all are shouldn't, If you think it's wonderful. I grow. we where think it's I too. are we the way this on we grow. We're getting tape. near the end. asked AB: Now you MW: I wanted Mormon women will hold don't even care doesn't mean a I think do you say, priesthood a or at least have if we call thing to me, it priesthood but a on television, where's the women? on the stand, sermons ought or to not one sections equal have and that would mean the brethren in the title woman There's speaker of the Church. power that in they the on I the of church or not watch it one apostleship. I woman official think that decision-making should That not. or equality the When I would go to Conference opportunity. participate women bodies with don't know what the is. MW: That you have equal participation? AB: Yes, uh huh. I think so We could understand our that day perhaps one equal place? more AB: to Church. much advance could be made -36- in each other much better in all of of the fine give, what they have to give it. Only once MW: Well, AB: I in writings think you did things. and caused do. lot a has It little a are you one. to the Church, Marilyn. a lot of commotion. caused trouble, of sacrifices almost become martyr. Yes, and I give Because a think she our life her is face what love to do it just as ought much in the Well, said. made, Somebody Church living she she as to me, she has sometimes has to know that. A to anyone service and thank you, allover when I'm It's thinking else woman can. she's willing Marilyn. a be. little I'd more conclusively. MW: I think of Sonia but when I Johnson and the to Well, chance to a will get do with to thank you very much. certainly can have think, I now, know what to they while a great service a right they don't and fine range of the some just struggling are in their had we in the Church that women many of them ray if programs our This was job. I No, you couldn't of done wonderful. appreciate this so much and it's going a better to be useful. AB: Well, MW: The state will be very rich for I think you are wonderful to do having it. this interview with you. AB: Who will hear this Both: (Laughter) sometime, that's -37- what I'm afraid of. AB: Well, I'm not afraid of anything I've said, just the way I've said it. MW: I'm going to say "thank you very much" -38- and turn this off.