Carol Lynn Pearson Oral History Interview

Oral history interview of Carol Lynn Pearson by Marilyn Warenski about status of women in Mormon culture.

STATE HISTORICAL SOCIETY HISTORY PROJECT UTAH ORAL Lynn Pearson Marilyn Warenski August 20, 1979 Carol INTERVIEWEE: INTERVIEWER: DATE: SUBJECT: Status MW: of Christine TRANSCRIBER: DATE: June 19, in Women the Mormon Culture Gustin 1987 We are at This is an interview with Carol Lynn Pearson. the home of her friend, Jan Tyler, at 839 East South Temple When I recently wrote a book on women in Salt Lake City. in the Mormon culture, when I decided to write that book, I wanted to interview a variety of Mormon women to explore their of some about attitudes the of status women in the my interview project connect with you and then you moved away. So I'm happy today to be able to include you in this Let's project while you're in town during this short time. Mormon culture. somehow I didn't start by you talking your background, interests. CP: I was While born we father worked them teaching brothers a was little doing bit education, about and here in Salt Lake City in moved out to Gusher in the and Vernal where my mother eight, Roosevelt your I yourself, some of 1939. Uintah taught about your When I Basin. school was Between and my Indians older the government program with the I had three on-the-farm, training. After spending five and one younger sister. for years Ute Indian Reservation we moved to Provo which I went to school at BYU was my home for most of my life. At BYU itself I majored in laboratory, was a high school. Got both a masters and a bachelors degree there in drama. out on the Did a lot of performing in the plays. drama. with the first BYU performing groups that went Traveled to the Had in "Blithe Spirit" by Noel Coward. a good the BYU. Wrote a thesis consisting of two plays. Finishing at the Y I taught a year at Snow College Saved up my money so I could retire and see in Ephraim. Orient the time at for USO something happens to it, which I dic. group for the summer in Europe and then went by myself to Greece and the Greek Islands and went into Russia for almost two weeks, down to East Africa where I stayed with friends, ended up in Israel working on a kibbutz and Then came home studing Hebrew for three and a half months. and got into writing more at that time, also got married. I worked for the BYU motion picture studio for some time. It Got more interested in writing, did quite a few poems. was my husband that insisted that we publish some of these When the local publishers were not interested, he poems. decided to form a publishing company and put out my first Since Other books we did ourselves at that time. books. the Went world with before a over all these things to other moved to California three years ago and I'm life there. What were the names of your parents? The Sirrines My mothers maiden name was Emeline Sirrine. settled in Mesa, Arizona. My father's name was Lelland we've then MW: CP: MW: CP: MW: CP: MW: CP: MW: CP: turned We publishers. really enjoying Wright. What is your husband's I'm legally divorced. name? His name is Gerald. you have children? Yes, four children. Do What are their names? Emily is eleven, (Caty) next month Johnny is nine, will be Aaron is four. Kathrine eight, have been very popular if you would take a few minutes to tell us the names of the books that you have published and talk about that a little bit. The three books of poetry are Beginnings then The Search The other these two are now being carried by Doubleday. books have been widely I'm at least in Utah. Your here books of poetry Salt Lake has. The Growing Bookcraft read and wondering that Bookcraft here in the two books on the Season also has history of mormon women that I wrote. Daughters of Light is a compilation of spiritual experiences that these women recorded in their lives, the early pioneer women. Then the Flight and the Nest which details what those women which a hundred years ago were saying and doing about women's issues which was terribly interesting to me to do that I have research. Other of my writings are stage plays. several childrens musicals notably My Turn On Earth that has been toured around considerably, a muslcal baslcally for children come earth and the lessons we are to be learning Another play moving on to some future spirit state. Order is Love which tells of the Mormons attempt to and The live to this briefly showing communal law what I consider the United in Orderville. Recently I've done a series notebooks on the Mormon culture. Bookcraft MW CP MW CP a in Order as to it of be was why we is practiced humorous put them out. I put out six of them and they have gone very, very well. People need desperately to laugh and maybe Mormon's need to There are so many things in the laugh more then anybody. Mormon culture that are really humerous as you look at it. The first one I put out is the Busy Bishop's Notebook which is your ordinary Mormon bishop jotting down all the things he has to do in the ward and the people and all this. Followed with The Model Mormon Mother's Notebook, both of them were fun to do. At this moment I'm working on a motion picture that I've been hired to work on, on the life of Joseph Smith. Who know's if it will ever be produced. Right now it's in the preliminary stages. What are your plans? Do you plan to stay in California? In the forseeable future, I have no plans of moving. Yes. Your address is Walnut Creek? Yes. -2- MW: What is CP: your connection yourself background? consider I a with the Mormon church? from the traditional person Do you Mormon say I have been absolutely produced from the Mormon All of my ancestors on both sides from day one. I had people coming across dyed in the wool pioneers. plains with the Mormon Batalion around with Samuel would culture are the When I filled out by boat, in the wagon companies. application for the Daughters of Utah Pioneers, I didn't ever quite finish, I think there were sixteen of my ancestors that came to Utah before the railway that My family has been thoroughly qualified as pioneers. Brannon an MW: CP: MW: CP: Mormons. I guess you would say a solid I would say so. Are you raising your children Mormon background? traditional Mormon way? What My children and I are affiliated with the Church. exactly is traditional and what is not we'd have to go in it quite a bit. There are many ways in which we are not in a traditional. MW: CP: MW: CP: do attend church regularly and you are active? Yes. I'm curious to know if you think that your background in Mormonism has influenced your attitude about being a woman, about womanhood in any way? You One of the best things my definitely. taught me is being honest which I will be I think what my church has now in terms of this question. contributed to my vision of life in general has been I think what I have received from my absolutely excellent. church about precisely the question of being a woman has had some aspects. I think it was in my early teenage years when I began to really think seriously about what life was all about, but particularly what is involved in this thing of being a woman. Of course, I was looking at it all through the glass, through the philosophy that I have been presented with which is the one and only way that you may look at the world in growing up as I did, and so to view being a woman through a philosophy that in a theological sense has virtually eliminated a female element was a One of the particular's that highly trematic event for me. I had to deal with early on was the concept of polygamy. told that in sense of where we're the eternal Being truly going that this is the highest order of the relationship of man and woman and having it rest with me so violently as something that didn't make any kind of sense or feel I remember night after night crying peaceful within me. myself to sleep over this issue thinking that God has dictated that this is the way things are and the way things That's a hard causes me are nothing but absolute agony. I remember specifically thing for someone to deal with. the day in seminary at BYU high school where my dear dear seminary teacher, Leland Anderson, bore his testimony that Of course, church has very ever -3- really knew polygamy was a divine order, that God our father undoubtly had many wives, that we had many mothers I remember walking home from that class in the in heaven. most incredible kind anguish and all of these things put together created a picture for me of being a woman that was he I think Mormon men have not the least idea horrendous. what it is to grow up Mormon as a women learning right off the bat that our deity consists of three masculine Joseph Smith gave us the hint that "somewhere personages. there is a masculine, mother there." of course, all But of course, the prophets in Christ was the Old Testament masculine. People prayed for a male child, never for child. That the earth was created by a father and a That the crowning creation son, not a father and a mother. of this earth was man and that for his need, at least in the account that we generally deal with of Gensis that woman was brought so that he would be complete and All of these things continue to add up to the fulfilled. I think a woman has to in and strangest picture of woman. were a girl of MW: CP: for MW: herself So an enormous amount of strength that so she me. the status of women two things, represents side? CP: bring In order to deal with manages to get somewhere on her own. all of this. That raises an interesting question in my mind. Many Mormons will say and many Mormon historians will say Mormonism is somewhat unique among the patriarchal religions of the world because it does offer women a more Do you feel it has been more present in equal position. I will that way then say Catholicism or Prodestants? The specifically say that (?) of the Mormons said that. Mormon church became very close to offering equality to women in the church. I would have to sayan a very practical level Mormon woman are offered opportunities to do many, many things. I think my own life has been benefited enormously, I have been able to participate in some of the activities. Just last week I directed a play in my ward. A musical that I had written a few years ago. I involved my three older children in it and a lot of the other kids in the ward and it went very well. It was a marvelous experience for all of them and the audience just loved it. There are things like that Mormon women as well as men are given great opportunities to participate in functions to learn many skills and to relate well one with another. I love the Church for that reason. On a practical level, I have never been denied the opportunity of doing anything that I truly wished to do. It is only then in the realm of theology and philosophy that the absolute devastation has been constantly present in a the Mormon guess for me it probably does. else looks at it that way at all. I -4- I'm to culture practical side and not That's a you theological saying anybody the way I view it. MW: would you describe a Mormon characteristics in Mormon woman How CP: Yes. CP: are you see different in I to explain. make choices. (laughter) think such an immediate kind we of last minute craming sort of thing, of being told this is the place to prepare to meet God. There is some truth in that. There is also something there of an unnatural pressure. Frantic pressure. Sometimes I think our search for perfection does become frantic and then the game is over. That just doesn't work. I'm going to ask you a question that I haven't explored with the other women in the interviews. There has been for MW: other that hard think I CP: in really MW: MW: Do any from other religions. places I truly in my I don't know. I really love Mormon women. heart do not think you can go anywhere to find a group of women who are trying as hard or any harder then Mormon women are to truly do what they believe to be the right thing to do. They have high dedication, high energy, high desire to want to do good, to do the right thing. It's hard on them because the standards are very, very high of the things they must do. They have to labor with having to daily work out their salvation in what sometimes is an extremely depressing kind of way, if you look at it the way I know a lot of women do. I believe that this is not the I know many Mormon way it is intended to be looked at. women who are so involved with daily things, trying to do every little thing perfect, to work out their own salvation and not even be able to take a nap because there is always something else left to be done. Being really afraid that when they come to this final day of judgement they will I know there is something just not quite have made it. wrong with looking at life that way, clearly there is I believe in working to be better something wrong. tomorrow then your were today and I believe in a long term kind of working toward perfection. Some how or other, it's women CP: women? finals some discussion lately about creativity among the Mormons. I'm wondering if you feel that the pressures that you described upon Mormon women causes them to be less creative or more creative and also do you have any insight to your own creative energy, that's always an interesting subject to me. Do you see yourself different from other Mormon women because of your creative pursuit. There is three aspects of that you could talk about. is in one led because all the Creativity way very stiff answers are in. Too often Mormons think, "What does the Church say about that" rather then say, "Here's something So there is that part of it interesting to look into." that perhaps squelches creativity. I'm sure there is a lot of other subtle things that work out of this to promote I think maybe a lot of the pain that I went through it. We have to face philosophically was probably an impetus. -5- MW: CP: certain things and subsequently deal with ideas and write I think one about a lot of the things that came from that. of the things frequently that Mormons are not allowed the The Church wishes to move in and take time to be creative. up every possible remaining corner of time, fill it up with what they consider to be good wholesome things rather then let people on their own sort of explore around. You have four children and have How have you managed that? been very productive with your writing. I would say the major difference that you could mark is that I am selfish enough to claim a certain amount of time and space for things that are really tremendously important to me rather then important to the community, whether it be I am family community or church community or whatever. I can tell myself, basically a disciplined person. "Alright MW: CP: you have to take x number of hours and you have to sit down and you have to produce" I'm able to do that. You eliminate many activities So you deal in priorities. that many Mormon women do. I've eliminated canning eliminated making quilts. Yes, I and I have put up a lot alive. She died when I fruit when was fifteen. ahead financially emotionally. ahead How do you leadership CP: feel about toward further time my I wise, (laughter) the quilting mother was am further and further current attitudes of the Church issues specificially the ERA and dealt with at the International the woman famous IWY when they met here, I'm I don't know what I could have contributed wasn't. to the whole thing. My life does not rise or fallon the I'm not really politically oriented, but clearly ERA. I emotionally not with the super conservative element on I look at the official stand of the know. Church and do not spend much energy either talking about it or That's a whole different world to me. thinking about it. Does the institutional effort to defeat the ERA have you Have you processed that idea, have you thought about that. that. CP: and of the issues that were Women's Year meeting? I was not in Utah at the glad MW: time. around frame still ahead MW: for a long have sat I I participated No. I I am don't have in it? completely stayed out of everything. Early on first came up in Utah, nobody knew anything about it, I didn't know anything about it. Nobody ever I have long been interested in things about heard of it. a television program woman so I was instrumental in getting on KBYU just to discuss it and from that I was labeled by a Just a few some really wild woman's liber heretic. little things did I participate in the first time it came At that time I withdrew knowing full well that the around. things I wish to do can only be done in my way and not by aligning myself with that particular issue. when the ERA -6- MW: CP: MW: Perhaps you deal with women's issues and those kinds of things through your writing? A poem like the Steward, that has had Of course, I do. I think that at this point I am fair amount of impact. allowed to have that kind of impact just by maintaining certain amount of aloofness from some of the tangles. In status CP: MW: CP: MW: CP: CP: MW: church. You don't church? MW: think there is Well, you know there is things and doing things. absolutely no impact on they will. What do you feel concerned you in practical way? Sort of. The or movement a a for that within the movement of women that are To this point they have had the structure and I last thing I want mission president. to I think don't about those kinds of problems? the past, have you thought about saying They that have in a is a bishop or stake have women friends that be would love to do that, they would love to. They would For them I would say, probably be very successful at it. "Well, perhaps there should be that opportunity," it isn't a thing that I would carry a banner for myself, because that is the last thing in the world that I would want to spend my time doing. You want to be a writer so therefore your not dealing with those kinds of issues on a political. Yes, for my own needs. Do you have anything that you would like to add, I have asked most of the questions that have been on my mind about the CP: many religious organizations women are taking a look at that and reinterpreting scriptures and revising their position. This is a slow process, but in some religious organizations I was wondering if women are gaining leadership positions. you anticipate this kind of revision in the Mormon church. Do you anticipate women moving into leadership positions, reinterpreting scriptures to revise their position? I don't think that will ever happen in the Mormon No. president MW: a theological mentioned you were concerned about the of women in patriarchal religions. You a status of women in the Mormon culture and about you. have any future writing projects in mind. a list of things that I'm waiting to get time to get It may be that some of them will involve in some way into. another some of the things that we have talked about, or but I'm not prepared to say exactly what that would be. Do you I have Do you have novels in mind? CP: No. MW: Are you going to continue to write poetry? Live theater is Stage plays are my favorite thing to do. my major love. CP: MW: CP: about acting? I really haven't done any of that for sometime. I think sometime be in a play again just for fun. What I -7- may at at this particular time we need writers more then we need The thing I wish to be involved in are idea kinds and MW: will write rather then things of act. you have been very popular in watched you move audiences to tears. This is because of your own poetry and because of your This is something you are very adept at and presentation. I am sure that you will continue to do some of that I mention a as CP: I actors. that speaker. Utah because I have reading of your own poetry. A person can be out speaking four I've retired from that. times a week and there have been a few ridiculous weeks that I have done that, but when I moved to California, I essentially retired except for a few unusual circumstances and I hardly even do anything even of an unusual I find that I can maintain writing as well circumstance. presentation, feel good about what I'm as can't add a third career of much. doing with my family, but I speaking, it's entirely too wanted to mention that because it's something people associate you with at this time along wth your writing it's significant contribution it's been concerning the MW: I CP: you were involved. I did a lot of that extent. Although I and I did love more enjoy then that to a and time certain anything being a private person. Is there MW: anything you would like to add? In five or ten years I think I would be prepared to say a I think at this moment this is all I'm prepared lot more. to say. Anything more in the background of your family that you CP: No. MW: It's CP: I MW: CP: would like to say. pleasure being able to have this interview with It's certainly a fine addition to the Historical you. Society Library. been thank a you. -8-