Anne Clawson Oral History Interview

Oral history interview of Anne Clawson by Marilyn Warenski about status of women in Mormon culture.

HISTORICAL STATE UTAH HISTORY PROGRAM ORAL INTERVIEWEE: Anne INTERVIEWER: Marilyn Warenski DATE September 8, : Clawson SUBJECT: Women TRANSCRIBER: Jeanne DATE October : This is Mormon in Culture Meyer subject of Women City. 1977 30, 1978 interview with Anne Richardson an Clawson's SOCIETY home The in at date the 1703 Mormon Princeton September is Culture. the We Avenue 8th, Clawson 1977. I the Mrs. at are Salt in on Lake Marilyn am Warenski. MW: Mrs. Clawson, tell about your and AC: I of so was let's background, born Salt Smithfield, Utah, in Lake City. old, Smithfield. In the your you education, your family on. twelve years to begin this interview by having Stewart We so Salt moved to naturally Lake I which Salt I went had to Training School where Lake my when first Wasatch I miles 100 is was I north was grades School, elected up then in of President lot of I fun. elected, and lot of wonderful a and graduated with was and graduated I and (laughter) Then ego. my I High School, East with Joseph John Richardson and May Low Richardson. MW: And AC: Smithfield, MW: Born AC: Raised Both Utah. and born My father Mayor for was helped organize the Republican Party. MW: After AC: I your didn't Calvin of he was Clawson Dentistry, at who I taking was two more years And to your children AC: Anne, yes, go when then? oldest Joseph Stanley Richardson in You have a is a Clawson, who -2- is Dr. and he a son, had family? 46. named dentist to Loyola School Chicago, in married. who county a you. were Stanley Hastings Clawson, who is grandfather. then we child is was in an He man. degree his time. some immediately, married, Chicago University, MW: our all. He civic-minded very a graduation from college, teach there. raised there? there, yes. and My from? raised assessor, I 1929. in AC: and but parent's names? your were like and high school teaching certificate, a What they East to History. in major my was University of Utah, the to MW: were went a I But get the most out of it, went B.A. a English, minor I time. great surprise and a one. from didn't I students, had for lot a graduated and High School a did was poor very a was it which school the I for have his Eugene, Oral Oregon. Surgeon, and lives in Wheeling, Police the named Clarence Clawson, Calvin analyst. Department his for youngest our a as policeman, son is father, who is with Seattle, Washington in actually Not and Virginia, West but as an in the police a lot of department. they're scattered allover country? the MW: So AC: They're scattered allover the country. MW: Well, Mrs. Clawson, you've been activities since you get around to AC: active person. things that Well, Auxiliary, although lot like of the He in would I is not Because interest I of the worst interesting) membership Auxiliary, which interested in didn't care have to They just are MW: Oh, the AC: The State MW: I didn't the that been State is a very local was as Oregon, know that. I am liked the I for had, the the would Oregon has retained and but Dental Then Teacher Association, I joining to even State consuming job. national. of activity ever -3- of some accused jobs yes. an Dental in Auxiliary Oregon? of about didn't you you've been Dental local. of though terrifically wasn't chairman Parent it I've in talk in lifetime? joiner. a was to interested husband my Even think I your be things. becoming (one like you you've done interested. a teaching, Would naturally, married. were school involved I was although have their liked it status. AC: it National. the from not help more but National, were we I to and I and then a President Vice and MW: That's a very AC: Well, not so I mean awhile, I was I later, Oh, I you was on were a very to me $2.00 with the of as run really I to interesting time, President enjoyed very much. as me spent $2.00 friends few they asked Vice became some a Alumni did. prestigious position. much wasn't wife; I I two I so, the I met my anyone's mother was an but myself. adivsor enjoyed that very much. when MW: I and that Board, before, or was they a a but it, asked time, the they was University the live local, a Then for that when at quite That Board. the at over before, had I out in was which, Board, found year worked Marilyn, you, on was I I and it, in guess Alumni I vote. to of more in Then the is was from dues enjoy the work on the disconcerting at the time I bit run with $1.00 to $5.00, little mentioned but right. all was National, that their time. They might get and raised did that so it 11m have. we concern think really don't. I National. much that had PTA the thought never the from information more or that Auxiliary. Dental felt getting enough help felt have always had I way. were we never the about sure so that feel didn't I was. that better is it that They feel It was the to I or was Also, peers. daughter Sorority Chi -- President of of the -4- Sorority then? I Then interesting. campus. President or as said husband Omega, the -­ for and Chapter AC: I President was and then the time I didn't all have had on to and weight and MW: (Laughter) AC: The girls hair. I you or said, AC: And did I You saw nice, that We lIyou a have really and that daughter, Anne, also Yes, she was MW: Were you involved AC: Not at Oh, no, was after later in also of have to but now at they've have we really kept it you put you much too on I with with did my gray become can choice, did a Chi That on. time, in came take your was President AC: had campus, national think I choice, I Your the at didn't I enjoy that. challenge, the the on done. was so a of because you when was was Advisor. then. surprised That she was drop dead, can (Laughter) very hair I Some since was your were MW: an when advisors have them that toes. your be to believe, three. I sororities five; MW: asked was Sorority the of here the alum an are.1I we girls. young enjoy. member of Chi Omega and Omega? kind was the Alumni No, I of fun. Association when Anne was active? MW: That AC: No, It MW: you was she She No. was became was no! her had out, stayed to that do away that I became she must on from her it ten involved, I was it years. No, own. it guess. involved? time, and do that on her fun. year vers Oh, no. that What Un i all. you said you ity? -5- graduated from the own. AC: 1929. MW: 1929? AC: About how many women were graduating Now, I in wouldn't class your know. But students, 330 graduating MW: know, Marilyn, how many It's I in AC: honor, an capacity the Well, whether as • . • challenge AC: I a your born was Church, in fulfill the grateful married why I kind mind that it she would be women. to be honor, and a it fun, which was really don't I able did you fun. I to serve later. took it more connection with duties my the the was really I Mormon Mormon. a I be faith, on a Church? married that could not and I am very me to be expected, be I fact, in and she anyone to Temple, have There was else. go mother my the would Mormon. child, very In married that been That was. not was felt I knew would Temple. Mormon oldest it parents because they didn't urge to hard and much. very Temple, because the her them the have of making me, a I and raised to in of time, and wasn't could the know? you liked? enjoyed is an Do . Just What only about 3,300 in AC: MW: were University you I there the Something part, time? you MW: as that think, for was percentage wise, at at of think, you would at it do liked was just When through broad-minded about a to no she have me the was been, question in her good Mormon without she the didn't Temple, it. sister-in-law whom my brother, younger than -6- the asked never and in ever it have I am, ask meant a married who is Presbyterian, a and someone "May, why don't convert Mary mother said, I vice mean convert loved really, and felt I for had I friends there time, have I were did. I thought taught the and little they all the time I and Then, the Edna that I than I, and rather to be on at the the Mormons them had the time things path at the wouldn't University. I loved and afterwards, people who that -7- the were and I about they was it. on were on, these they made when I Desie ten rather and it Boyle years fun, a had Ensign Primary Board, them anything else. in wedding, my the group loved with to came loved and about of I equally mostly because was and the was dear. I and things were mostly because went association, and was, and went, the was middle a all I life, as Church. I my nice. Class, was was keep did that of strong Mormons. smoking to They children, Felt I very Junior girls. young older about else, and and my "Why doesn't she bread to And Mormonism?" shows her really I it enjoyed I non-Mormon, tried were go very groups. although maybe to although were very feeling a taught Mutual fuss who both duty my was anyone on mother, my with was that you was friends who friendly it it But It mother, my to me backwards. it religion. yet she didn't force along, convert Presbyterianism?" her to Presbyterianism?" to Mary said I versa. to me mother "Why doesn't said and than it children The got them I all went to up youngest was to go to Priesthood me up anymore go I will.1I would I two I -- don't of who took front, I and religion.1I I and was I knew about I Therefore, tell you said, III mind, and I He how you sixteen did, it would had to find 11m born was to the with raised prejudice whatsoever.1I I and ask I a in " "Yo u nearly I to question to should for mys e l f ;" He person who ever healthy body and a -8- said, said began out he want you said, and IIOh,1I to He came where my III t t ," decision family in in have He his a out about l l What one police said, thing.1I about the Master's distressed said, thing not, or lawn the to other nice the be luckiest The his at up our want He's I him what I very has seventeen or get record religion. fewel don't mother?1I personal very a dad, that was h ap p y ;" from your He very you to I 11m him had. ever cutting were are disturbed, very if IIWhy is tell to particularly I It We called one. A on works who one IICalvin, want you was the not am I philosophy. in he's this want I If the regardless. up, conversations said, yourself. have gotten said, He what 111111 was Seattle. know. IIWhen would. and in for he degree his department decide knew nicest philosophy, don't Meeting. He when IIMother, Priesthood baptized. and time said, he know whether you the one Meeting, last to have all were go to I the seventeen, about They Priesthood Meeting, to go church. to I you, do, and not mine. said, then III can lived.1I He fairly good can IISome remember might have no a little bit here prejudice, that is said, but IIIlve will make MW: Right! AC: That been donlt because I have The go. such I when I in was husband? I "Yes, say, and he And loved that part of your childhood, but done right? I Am dearest friends, told that for me my I younger children. lIve it I was the last ten years, dear havenlt but are is about through because had whom a -9- takes do. I guess would whole thing you back and to children? of such I I nice Have mistake wrong. Anne to guilty feeling. my have the had hymns and sang off-key. that a it your to when Sister guilty. felt the I you, changed I "Where I and person, IIHow say, sat also it welve the I children, because said perhaps Now, but away, I making my way, doing right by for he still I compliment nicest something better Then and are life IINow," that a held right is." they way. in was and has whole guilty conscience, Marilyn, a he nostalgic feeling a this eighth grade) guess he feel such my couple. a christened Annie the fishing." hels I had was the was member, a Bishop, (I it in remember never myself.1I for but particularly as III decisions, wrong ones, as respect for him, Annie?" had us, feel church, to wrong would child this others to said, he think to of thought I paid had lot of lot a able a but important thing most been made decisions.1I ever the have I there,ll and in had lot a not gone should go of One my respect, going to church with my older for my younger children, because her, "Well, ones who for go a my go for my older ones. going to church shows with darken respect. feel spiritual feeling asked ask you To the with you have to in that personal thing you as that know that of 11m the I sorry. someone me, I my and religion so for know that something that But else. I It Therefore, in cannot don't my 11m been the was not. be It years for or know what that, to do it, know I way it is? -10- not was I but about accept The satisfying not I am reject for which about can't You most missing something. what I else have know know lots education. is don't I then is, someone really it. lack a So there must life accept is know." it ten there in our really don't, Marilyn. it. MW: personal than to "No, why did to have never anything IINo." they said, to with and has to it owe where personal thing more is. you said, wanted have should Anne, there She just It's and need that said oldest my I home a asked I and You sex. for generation very most there church, to gone the person, a answering III than in I children our family?" said, is sex. have felt ever children, that?" personal fact, then "Well, said, owe we in our other more to in religion me, that -- you spirituality of She door, they're raised If "Have church's a ones." younger don't daughter, I my never them." that if did I to can't it. do accept AC: The is, it way the upset when happened; when President Kimball was in Scotland, knowing such Howe, Mr. thing. sad What MW: This is AC: Yes, Congressman Howe, yes. even called out Congressman they told MW: (Laughter) AC: I felt when religion? with with before do To he need some who have an religion. MW: I AC: To have do about should to guilty was you be you, a it do envy great one. that, you want member. felt I from it was a sad so apostasize. to bishop, hover and " know a not, but such was help that think do church? I church? that Then decided When a faith them. It don't, and do around it I after was need you and you, they didn't. thing. way. unquestioning I how here, or a this adjudged, before even thought court. must help don't was in too it. do a are without membership" He felt my need We is see didn't Howe. he to and Howe? you you. Mr. whether I so find had I me work, to up Allan claimed "His claimed. wasn't was a representative, our said, He facts. It fact, happening. that are the so church. much of some got are immediately damned even about antagonistic so I things that this I'm and he because really do. in church, must any be a he went shame, I "We know before even say, They didn't don't is a I was, to do envy in comfort. think people any Oh, it so. but I it. -11- I really don't know what to MW: would You describe the traditional AC: Yes. and mother, lIyou why would you He letting.1I go. He was six-month two up, my father MW: (Laughter) AC: Now, MW: After AC: I all it. idea a before he was he with, two went to go go, I don't and actually Utah, we fifteen he no understood when for a to money there's Southern Then church baby, wasn't farmer, He never to missions. the or years. live my IIThere had and to third your said, He cattleman went the but were he growing years. know. why he didn't go. Yes. Yes, That's Oh, yes. at but going Mother funny. On little town the time, to was you happened then. this One a of killed terrible one night saw was only everybody movie. -12- my about humor. humor, maybe, I that. and we of sense terribly funny, terribly Smithfield, at so such sense Saturday night, there of almost felt has get your ask It she my mother where you was talkies spent when half she called. missions. didn't think hope. as said pregnant, And mother my didn't I Aha! what a up those missions? no mother, and he gO?1I He mission, on have did. half a was why leave to He and months was one married. was very well-to-do a someone two on AC: dad of question. MW: let case had he three were grew you missions, two on after one which in home? Mormon My father went married, home Of our one had course, ward cute and show in to go there teachers and this see weren't come the down Farrell street we better We went and eleven years MW: (Laughter) AC: And it was and loved but really how Yes. AC: As maybe we used have years old, brothers, nice now like that our on took to accept see us us and to She was a that the in and way we being to daughter see were, her I -13- to change life, kneel and was about younger think in yet she families I two she atmosphere. table Maybe raised from think, of bedrooms.1I it And we that is how didn't type of get mother to go to Sunday on "I dear and of when and said, own how Mormon the to embarrassed. sew important more sort the sister our and appreciated bread Well, little while a Sunday strict and thing, in Mother not were of sort It younger a prayers we that in table. the and things, her was backwards giggled. we that family. movie and said we had I it know, Marilyn, around prayer only about realized I about was raised put the chairs to ten she was far was the teachers. then said, I be to don't you and time As church. ward right and was, wonderful MW: the with movie show." around way knew, I then the that broad-minded how her right the show. the to go but old, meeting our to up feeling mother's than a went all think "I the to go we Brother -- said, mother and went door, beard long a before little walk a back the out block, my for go had them Pilkington, Brother and of one -- because a her polygamist family, and was of be able to quite remarkable. There was family, the wine, told so we that Yes, definitely was. There even during were never could we say anything to our family. Now, for he who three told him, and years, It was had We there, and drink a well, very was it. drink to he it father did. My father had there so my prohibition. never like our always wine in wine, of didn't mother sure the in was was couldn't. or drink a 11m brothers AC: way. wanted father there freedom that there family, MW: a smoked. never from mother, hid it she said, she friction no "Why, about knew I in way two brother one all my didn't that had I if wine. of but weren't the time mean that sort can't tell you smoking." was (Laughter) She didn't thing of how make for which grateful am background. did us pay drinking, well as a or you compliment, with MW: Yes. AC: I 11m to nice very my all. at I grateful. mother that for children our I of sort that. have compliment when they were "We manage whatever and him on hope that They said, time. hard it dad hope that you have Marilyn, want we because call to done." can Which some talking boys one our socializing, it, is Our families nice very a have as trouble that. had an alcoholic alcoholic brothers. the I time, guess, brother, We and call they just -14- hisband, my them alcoholics called them Cal, now, had four but drunkards, I at They don't know. their economic was doctor a MW: That's AC: Then he it a was Very. AC: But but became that died. in We've children. to lady did tried the University. In looked very young, but Now, my dinner, "Could you but it MW: (Laughter) AC: Because and very to children they said, me, has and I took fun, I to degree. a came It very never the survey? well family, to said, stopped drinking and the tried We've haven't she My brother very alcoholic. an wasn't he He that carefully. at with two profession, in his we have to watch hide it from the sense with it survey. A years but thing. sad had we young all were well very interesting. before we and decided MW: life, did smart, very were do have she about very 45 did the fact, a other she has day. of her possibly give me time with really had I with dinner my that's a and You I have drinker?" R.N. an She take older drink And too. It moderate to a set-up." interesting interview. Clawson, nice very and this people." before quite often, her Dr. maybe credentials, like gave husband, very they and tease set-up! friends. minutes, a do and She's alcoholism with because it Master's. her all wine other good use door uh, mother, wasn't to Now, laugh, have so said, "Why said, "Well, -15- did you I'm She It really say not an you in came was My was. were a a abstainer I'm and not If AC: I have you have drink? a matter much as have always better if I are glass growing up, though. in, but we growing up. get course, to while our there's a children might have had something to do with it. AC: That might have had something to do with it. MW: I'm whether this, or but (SOMETHING Oh I yes, Mar i 1 y n what an I'm don't I wondering yourself about know think think I two • not or the is on 1 d n' t mat t it, yes. er w raised It with your that is feeling hands, of to being use hat makes, in or not, I me creative your don't eli g ion oh, to hands part of my background. background r with. terrifically important the woman and Church Mormon anything that you're raised u a any way? TAPE) WITH background you're affect corn WRONG were you've thought about if whether you Yes? as shaped your attitudes about womanhood has AC: not feel you were prohibition days. That -- but routine certain the in a it, children MW: wondering how like I always have the Dinners me. don't were we does It do. before. while it do didn't Of think I both drink a that do didn't We here. it's it as dinner. with wine of Cal to We dinner. before drink mixed a doesn't a drinker." moderate MW: I'm in? fit I do Where alcoholic. an know, -16- all Whether but I does, don' t I • think it could say does k now have right now Thanksgiving. on in with way, a the it do particularly time, is I think Mormon think that is Of quite important. do who all it though, that there's a time. the think But should women but so, didn't I I've in now think I church, the feel ever felt, never as people other are subservient, be feeling of that right terrifically there know course, when it I was young. MW: You didn't? AC: No, I because I think it well so any way liked far as and that I as great deal don't know, specifically, to felt, do was popular so tell. how what no, -- didn't she can with no have But, yes, feel I to to say about about though. that MW: Well, it's AC: Yes. I kind used Clawson, to smoked smokes a would an be embarrassed cigar. a But "0h, elusive of cigar difference? MW: fairly active a has things. he in I time. the at was group, own herself prove it mother my her with feel didn't I I'm in once used thing, when over be. to my husband, that while. a anyway. When I So now. What's growing was hope nobody stupid thing. You shouldn't So you become older, you've developed doesn't matter now. that as sees him." what care So what? the I say, Dr. And I up that's a people think. other your own ideas. AC: But it never inhaled smokes in fishing. they're and he office. Now with smoking the So doesn't smoked never the not It what boys, because if I'm of -17- and at home he smoked glad right the because matter, health he when now thing. he never he that went MW: Sure. AC: I daughters-in-law have feel ever that were we critical anything MW: would How At MW: Well, AC: Well, MW: You AC: I either used it shown MW: is. Oh that the it when out Church hadn't Why do think you that they've think, want about and women •••• it's far more defined said, against the the it come out why would a Church Church "I is it, but I think now. little is think against am against out I think -18- that was bit, opposed? they do is the it makes Do you case? now. you once opposed to the ERA? that ERA." the against it. you now maybe say Sister Smith, should and they have because established. has fight against Yes. and ERA come out stronger. generally yes! immediately to Yes, or present time Smith, Mrs. something MW: they be. to come Oh, the at They have AC: if do. something The and attitude Mormon the present time the at think think came but present time? the than describe you had nothing and business, own it roles? their AC: their do to entirely theirs. it's it, do to it's because health, If not. health with be would it do, to did It anything with the religion. had it that or hope they don't I but smoke, who you think get much AC: I Church it Now, the is that sort of little girl I and Priesthood background It of. I am not holding about thing. Mormon think can because Catholic, than more their with familiar too be not may I church chauvinistic most The churches. other about much know too don't goes back, way Marilyn. When I I was raised was I Before not I so was in hold the These are dreams and was going I Senate, and dreams, but questioned me. Then whom I was I was those it and after loved, They it. was have you introduce black a 2,000 people. about that the Mayor of Smithfield of a fantasies. was he married, was a believed a I -- and little Now time, and his unquestioning. all. was bit, we have I father-in-law my person, that girl, question for the asked so whole that at answer darling it, questioned But when States! little the to time a United you're when at was the Mormonism nobody could people black just going to convert them. are person. and President like my mothers mother-in-law her I and very much lived to of Priesthood, that seen never questioned why I there, become to had town My father young. going was little a left even could he a and I faith They My could talk to better. MW: What AC: Stanley Hastings Hyrum was the name Clawson everything for was of your Clawson. father-in-law? He was Hyrum Clawson's Brigham Young's major Brigham Young, -19- all of his domo. He personal son, and managed affairs. remembered MW: Yes, I AC: They were of Beehive House and way. In family that in beliefs her married would (Laughter) And it was church, oldest because later when would have MW: Commit her. AC: So was she Clawson could, what you room think it a explained, be married in something and the the from Hyrum Clawson's really truly, Church, be Mother and Temple until week a mother-in-law, Margaret Judd Clawson her was nothing in Temple the ceremony that that. say (Laughter) married the then and was little apostasized Stanley Clawson, the not that. for had in would from strong so polygamist wife, is a bit you of out blacks he believe, other a was two give permission for here there about and to she not her her assured take to strong afraid if power would Clawson was as almost son, able be very she it, have give permission not AC: to buffet mother-in-law my would she a was strong about so that Clawson MW: fact, it so on, so the have we Temple because she said, would she and the in be Father me and Brigham Young's daughters, the Hyrum Clawson married fact, In close. very that. about something said that cried, very have is to "An me, the because way I things take -20- it n e on , it is.1I it was answer. some I explained he and to good about Temple. the did it Father ask as well doesn't I you went faith, but in I the didn't talked Clawson cannot have it he matter upset because Mother as was one to thing I I unjust, and questioned in MW: Just AC: In so proud in my wonderful feeling Up person. first one see guess. life we these pioneers, other people I the need given have. 11m so really am, and it to and What be to Oh, the because beautiful, a part of a couldnlt I stand Church 11m yet here, come us. proud anything against say church, thing of sort pioneer ancestors. my has life That the about and they felt that marvelous a I unfair. so ancestors my glad so what of seemed It yes. developed 11m Lake, Salt to when and idea. the fact, has moved first I did I when remember donlt I black a seen that be beginning, the never never could Lord, my from it had I first, it Lord, the I Marilyn. faith, on questioned I Valley, Cache when think didnlt could. take could never hear to when even I do. MW: Even AC: Yes. when I and on. (Laughter) do? in and protect, yet there are so new thing to want ability, agree you get Therels quite surprised one granddaughter could because the 11m me. Church not does many to the things thatls best that come great grandmother a have not artificial believe in up of I my cannot that has My now. insemination, it. surprised you? MW: That AC: Terrifically. In fact, I given them their blessing, thought it might be a thought maybe their personal -21- Elder the patriarchal thing until I who blessing, traced it had and down, has is it giving birth why couldn't In find someone I there But baby? that they do not believe that to it find cannot talk would who had it, have like I'd so is it. in out. about me we adopted, She's her. saw baby, a lovely grandbaby this -- and why, one going down we're tonight fact, have Church know don't I Now baby? Karen the in something to a pleasure of having the just five days old when is that but had No Why couldn't this child, me. party for her little a to to know. don't I Why, now. have granddaughter this to it explained ever and true, I'd have feeling about it. a better I just can't believe MW: AC: I it. in MW: That's AC: I have from a raised it, believe not they don't allow it. mean a granddaughter who is oldest divorce, our with mother her and we're and believe, that artificial feel the but Church very a her step-father, good that does friends. who been dear are They've something they do is give not She's divorced. was She's Mormon. devout boy very very, adopted this baby now, You They do so. interesting. people, MW: it's but sanction for not -­ insemination. the that Church is perhaps too rigid now on issues? AC: Yes, I do. chauvinism. completely a And I still I do. I man's think think church. it it's For -22- has a to do man's instance, with church, I'm glad my some I'm mother -- Relief Society sorry isn't she have to not here, why that would be heart breaking AC: They Church. MW: they don't, No, little bit. MW: So you see AC: Yes, do. MW: How I would these Dear the That me. her. longer no are men the of head Oh, this. me just a you feel that bothers change a describe you women the awful. that's think and to loved so Society Magazine, Relief a she but are subdued woman? Mormon a Do by the male domination the in Church? AC: MW: think I No, faith is about it. Do Well, of other from difficult AC: that such think you way they enjoy it, that's the women, MW: International I'd MW: You AC: Women's least being the to Year Their question no in different That's women? any a sure. IWY Meeting Meeting? they're very different, say as non-Mormon I'm friends. my there's and woman from having been AC: it, Mormon question too, after at personally. I was very upset at that. felt that the Yes, and they came were told them. to After meetings, I come, Anne stayed majority, at least, unquestioning. because I've They talked and her friends in the big meeting -23- behaved left came to and with a ••••• because ? they great many of went the to other ERA, and I questioned five least at by their bishops and they AC: know the way your backgroundll and that felt it wrong and that What about mother and people very was your you describe Had my the way I lived have changed tried to maybe don't do anything about it. MW: I AC: But MW: Do AC: I know "You or me. her in would How time? have it would she think now, except she would do, upset to actually and thing, of sort come exactly how should" you to women? those mother you told were told not were vote lIyou vote. MW: They groups. gone little a thought have to Church and bit there, where see. think I mother would have and raised One time going to gone voice. a you? really do in the a and all. person pleasure of all put (it was in was have She person. taking are and not she loud-voiced not you when mild very a and "Please we If afford,1I seemed working together women other. were stature, said, she But in have. they mother, she, and small was could would University Ward, bazaars, each she think getting away to the know in $10.00, which of us the Federal Heights Ward, or University Ward at ,the time) IIBut your e most destroying our comradery of working and doing something together.1I so, they went on having am as bazaars. bazaars. -24- Now they can't have And MW: feel own behalf AC: Yes, MW: Do I you their that then, You do. Yes. feel that AC: Not as much. MW: Not as much? AC: At MW: Are AC: Yes. MW: Then least you, you I as don't I voices their on who speaking are on well? them. in favor opposition in today women are know yourself, are their raised do. there behalf own women time? that at the to Equal Rights Amendment? the of the Church's stand as you in favor described? Oh, AC: Oh, MW: Do you think of the Equal Rights AC: I yes. about, there it's think yes. more of more they might be, a many are a women who are Amendment? of case fear. but Mormon I not think understanding what they understood if it's it, they absolutely won't go against the Church. MW: I AC: They won't go against see, it's MW: I be to at all. Do you In what against think affected AC: see. or that will it. it. the If the They're National affect Mormon way? -25- Church not says letting Women's women? it's it Movement there, bother has them MW: AC: In any way as it I it might work think do. I yes, antagonism need make to line, the and it there's Utah, and I'm The AC: No. MW: Would you, moving instance, for into have women done in not in We'd have Yes, have think and nephew about and to he the is a black said, revelation, that. a get you that's to be that world of getting Yes, little a about follow to will all you right down I way. don't through it There's it that's very the will no be would generation what to women the way I the really don't. take? comes, time." question about So, it. -26- next two. or Mormon, time the or interesting thing. an it. Church Mormon beyond that. active the back anticipate Mormon and people being admitted revelation, that's that's my revelation a "When it of getting churches? know what think who you in not don't that's I would other time, my I You women defiance. a once anticipate, leadership the generation. AC: Mormon sorry. talking about, was MW: level. in Equal Rights? MW: No, the in national almost because going change that stronger and it's chance a a persecution, little think and think I a will lives on reverse, will, it little a done beliefs, their in think I in their if have to seems tighter become AC: wondering I'm any way. you to and if said see, if a Priesthood, the have we that's have something accepted He it, I I like it it. you a We've have had faith, MW: anticipate the don't You AC: No. No, MW: You don't If it make all. at No. will it feel that go any their they that the no, which won't women isn't to more even too and yet have lot of traced it a support their and sustain supportive questioned live about, me told were them made before. than husbands things that Anne's told down think, generation my has this think I either. in would really don't think the next generation, I but all at move it rather but way, .? don't I But yes. came, long, of not through revelation if it come moving and ..? toward. AC: getting together women husbands. MW: Anne, AC: Yes, being beginning said, said, I Voters. IIItis IIWhy they're voting about said, IIThey're told you are for or vote to going ladies the because she moved here up whom toll organize to III said, for.1I She Voters in had been visited She werenlt. She They Society.1I think did the get first trying to are the not a membership 57 year get she was which one in -27- was Logan it And say down, were her I -­ IIOh, and told League of quite unusual. for what not in they that. they're voting what to I She it?1I know said, I they and they should know did what tracing wards, not anything.1I or -- do "Support and sustain their husbands.1I Relief there organizing the League of Women about think to When Logan. in Yes, Hatch. Hatch? Anne daughter, your years. Women They had belonged down have Yes. AC: Anne been -- said (Laughter) AC: It made in a to me, "Aren't have quote her, lone Bennion, are she's am having and very a she's was here, was a then about it, and she had some conflict Yes, she You AC: Very much, mean yes. particularly after she hard on with far lone. more I to went bad very the with Very does. the non-Mormon much so, meeting. about in, She said, and not lilt's the -28- the women," we with Anne. Church? it, It was I did. very went She was Society that's Work but and because belligerent feelings than she trying, feeling. bringing this felt there and to that things She really is. I a with. trying time difficult was devout very a the She who school to gone I'm no. someone was lady lawn?" your on and MW: this stay here compromise with the feelings happening. talked had who I a for black a Christie, "0h, There neighborhood." I burned cross a said, I sick. than but could down was if afraid you younger Mormon, make almost liberated little can me a Logan, There came One her. with ladies overnight that you will MW: they when Now, group me interesting. in there. up group bought . three brought the the in is which little a away she in, was it, with on Mormons. some IWY she and in non-Mormons Women's MW: went she after on, mostly non-Mormons were mostly I and membership, There later then and bit, drifted had I and before, here didn't have MW: feeling. come by their wards, I AC: trying MW: see. AC: am MW: You that So happier you I church. to would. I think glad they MW: let your own I'm have those with yourself? would want to they can difficult and go, not sorry ladies; I they come and me. was speak out in did. right to I go. and say from or welcome to call our, Ward Teachers We're them. on us, and Society Teachers, visit, but I don't go, don't. she she we Relief my when conscience well bishop has been and ? don't up yet, called, are while The stand and thing that interests MW: she friends than one Yes, is very one ••• I if one Well, AC: the guilty a views The come. they're dear and it's now to had I don't empathy with them, have Mormon. they're called Block Teachers whatever but now, made have really would, something. don't right easier it conflict have would Yes, She came. relationship that a and them, going. not of AC: of they church. to went some way good very a into two found I've her. for of both with, live go bring the to and were issues? yet she's and Yes, Yes. to they apparently pro-ERA was told felt the that's and woman women's other the this And see. I I didn't. really that not her have You said particularly outspoken, Relief Society bazaars and -29- so to defend on. did your in mother, fact, AC: To make MW: Do you their general standing not words, other In they're going with on mother's your here women in are rights today? they're very proud that that they're told what to do That's now. Mormons? Yes, Yes. that in before did MW: at more feeling. MW: AC: is now the that that did women mother your feel you their for up My feeling right my like someone that feel then you just or time? AC: that feel decisions. own would How they wouldn't be another generation. account for you apt to say what they as is, change if it that fact, in a change? AC: As It's effort MW: to is the we making not thing one question don't any, that any bothers me, really does. Marilyn. It Well, know you It question. all, at non-questioning and it, little the No, feeling. my that's and there, is Priesthood it. That's A antagonism. of bit little A ERA. persecution. of bit the said, I Mormon first the were women women in the country to exercise suffrage. AC: That's told MW: Do right. exactly how you women's feel that rights what But as to good is the suffrage if they are vote? they were women at than -30- one they time are more now? supportive of AC: Of that, I really wouldnlt mother-in-law would have been I think both my 11m sure -- at the have been would have happened then. very mother time, would I know. -31- but I know that my supportive of that, and my donlt and mother-in-law really know what