| Transcript |
AMI CHOPINE: It is November 19 2020 and I'm talking with Jenny. I know you want to introduce yourself. Jenny Gunnell: Hi I'm Jenny. Jenny Gunnell: And what else was I supposed to say just I'm a mom. AMI CHOPINE: What were you before you were a mom. Jenny Gunnell: I taught school, elementary school and yeah AMI CHOPINE: Cool. Um, can you tell me a little bit about your family. Jenny Gunnell: Yes, so, um, I have, we have four kids and Jenny Gunnell: age range from 20 down to nine was quite a range and our second son who was 19 has severe autism. AMI CHOPINE: So when did you find out that he had severe autism. Jenny Gunnell: And about 20 months just before you turn to not too long. AMI CHOPINE: So I guess backtracking a little bit about children's education, could you kind of describe your general approach. AMI CHOPINE: No worries. Jenny Gunnell: Yeah, Keiko do your class. I'm sorry. My general and AMI CHOPINE: Your general approach to your children's education. I Jenny Gunnell: Have a hard ones are also varied. I feel like they each have a different I have approached for each of them. It felt like Jenny Gunnell: You know, I think before we had kids and they're all adopted by the way, not that that matters, but that's how they came to us and Jenny Gunnell: I think before we had them or got them we I, you know, education is super important to my husband and I, we both have Jenny Gunnell: Degrees associate's degrees or bachelor's degrees and associates degree and my husband has a masters and Jenny Gunnell: So education is important to us was really Jenny Gunnell: Important as we were growing up our parents really put a lot of emphasis on it. And so I think we just started, you know, that was our takeaway already. And so we expect our kids to do the best they can and Jenny Gunnell: We've definitely had to change some expectations as times gone on, obviously, with different issues and things about education, but Jenny Gunnell: We, we just feel that Jenny Gunnell: It's the gateway to, you know, Jenny Gunnell: Solve a lot of world's problems. And so we hope that they all will go on as far as they can, or want to Jenny Gunnell: getting an education. AMI CHOPINE: Good. So when you're talking about your son who got the autism diagnosis. AMI CHOPINE: And you started to think about what that future in education and helping him along. AMI CHOPINE: How did you start approaching that, how did you start working with that. Jenny Gunnell: Well, we just started seeking out, you know, all, all the programs that were offered in Utah, that we, you know, trying to decide what was going to be the best fit for him and the path we wanted to take Jenny Gunnell: And at the time, there really wasn't a lot for autism and i mean you know we had the option of the district which, you know, I appreciate all they do but Jenny Gunnell: We wanted a lot more intense therapy for him all this all those studies and research showed that they needed, you know, several hours of intervention, a week in order to Jenny Gunnell: You know, be able to to learn what they needed to to function and to hopefully overcome some the deficits and things that they have. And so Jenny Gunnell: We enrolled him in a school that was just for children with autism and it was Jenny Gunnell: Pretty intense so he we put them on a bus when he turned three, and he would be gone all day and then we'd pick him up in the afternoon. So it was a full day for him, starting at three Jenny Gunnell: In preschool. So you did preschool for two years and then he continued in their, their elementary program for the next three years after that and Jenny Gunnell: So we did, yeah. The school was Jenny Gunnell: Pretty renowned around the area because it was one of the only schools for children with autism and they required a lot of parental support and it was hard. But it was worth it, we felt like we felt like he was able to gain a lot of new skills and things that Jenny Gunnell: You know, would have been hard for us to teach him and would have been hard for him to get going to like a district preschool for a couple days a week. AMI CHOPINE: Law school was that Jenny Gunnell: It's the Carmen Pingree school for children with autism. Jenny Gunnell: That by the university and now there's a lot of choices for people with autism and children with autism. So that's great that people have a lot more choices now. AMI CHOPINE: Yeah, yeah. Um, AMI CHOPINE: So, uh, let's see. AMI CHOPINE: Did you end up so you talked about the school at the end up bringing in any other services or therapies that Jenny Gunnell: Yes. And when he was young, like that. We didn't have a lot of outside therapies, because he was just gone so much you know and and it was so new to us. And he was so little, it was so hard to put him on the bus as a three year old and just say goodbye for the whole day every, every day. Jenny Gunnell: But as he got a little older, I like, I don't remember age, how old he was. But, you know, probably, is he started into more like kindergarten. We start out Jenny Gunnell: And maybe even younger. Yeah, we definitely took him to an occupational therapist for a while and we had a private speech therapist that will come into our home. Jenny Gunnell: Once a week for, I don't know, several years and one that we really loved and he loved was he did horse therapy for about three or four Jenny Gunnell: Oh, AMI CHOPINE: Ok continue Jenny Gunnell: Okay, so as he's gotten older, we haven't done as many therapies and I, I'm not sure if it's because we're burned out and taxed out. And, um, it's super expensive. Jenny Gunnell: I'm probably just a combination of all those things as well as I, I believe that he's still capable of learning and growing. But it almost kind of feels like he's hit the ceiling. You know, like there's not a ton of more progress that can be made if that makes sense. Jenny Gunnell: Yeah, he's kind of where he's going to be for the most part, as far as speech probably and things like that. But he's receiving all those services at school. Now he's still in the school, you know, district and will be intelius 22 so AMI CHOPINE: Okay, so what does he go to Jenny Gunnell: And he goes to curry Sue Hamilton and the Jordan school district. AMI CHOPINE: And have you been happy. They're Jenny Gunnell: So happy. Yes. We love it. I, I had a hard time at first because when we left the Pingree school. It was just such a, like a safe, you know, Jenny Gunnell: I knew everybody. It was kind of a little community, you know, and it just, it just felt safe, but we just kind of got to the point where Jenny Gunnell: We were ready for him to try something new. Again, like maybe he'd kind of hit the ceiling of where he was going to progress there and Jenny Gunnell: So that's when we decided to move them to the district school and he was in a cluster class for a couple of years, which we were really happy with. And I thought, you know, we'll just continue this but then Jenny Gunnell: They, they reevaluated and thought that he would be better served at cari Sue and I was scared because I kind of felt like that. That was the bottom of the Jenny Gunnell: The bottom of like all the low, you know, the lowest kids go there. The low. So I thought, well, Jenny Gunnell: There's nowhere else to go, like, beyond that, like, this is the final stop kind of which I don't know why I felt like that. That was stupid. But now you know he's been there probably eight years or so. Jenny Gunnell: And we're really happy. Jenny Gunnell: With their we've had, you know, there have been years where I'm like, I don't care for this teacher. He's kind of, you know, moving backwards, instead of forwards, but Overall, Jenny Gunnell: You're right, you're right, it would be. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing staff and Jenny Gunnell: Yeah. AMI CHOPINE: Alright, so, um, tell me about what happened this spring when AMI CHOPINE: We had AMI CHOPINE: Posted and all the school shut down. AMI CHOPINE: Things went online. How did that affect your family in him. Jenny Gunnell: That was brutal. That was awful. Like, I don't even know how to Jenny Gunnell: Phrase that because it was just so sudden, you know, and Jenny Gunnell: How do you explain to a kid like that, what's going on. You know what I mean, like they it's just so abstract like there's this horrible disease. He just Jenny Gunnell: I mean, you know, people always asked, like what functioning level. He's at and I don't really know that I could put like an age on it. It just depends on Jenny Gunnell: You know, but I mean, he's just like a little toddler as far as understanding that kind of stuff, you know, so he was just like so confused. What you know he he's very into Jenny Gunnell: Just needing to know his schedule, which is, you know, very typical for kids with autism and other disabilities, too, but he has a calendar that he Jenny Gunnell: carries around with them while he's at home that we have to write on like what's happening every day. And so all of a sudden, all these days are just like empty and he is like school. We're like, no, no school stay home. Stay safe, you know, and Jenny Gunnell: So, you know, I'd say, at first it was okay for a few days, but it just gradually just really got a lot harder. Jenny Gunnell: And they, you know, the teachers were doing the best they could, they were trying to do zoom classes and stuff but Jenny Gunnell: He did that was just like beyond his understanding, he, he would get really aggressive and upset when I would say, you know, we're going to get on the computer and say hi to your teachers and Jenny Gunnell: Even saying no, and start hitting and so finally I just told the school like we're not we're not doing this anymore. I, you know, Jenny Gunnell: Thanks for what you're doing, but we can't like he's it's making them upset, he's at home and he doesn't want to be you know bugged about school work at home like those things don't mix right AMI CHOPINE: Yeah, and his in his world. So, Jenny Gunnell: Anyway, the hard thing was his school shut down and all been he goes to an after school program, a few days a week and then he would go on Saturdays. So those days he wouldn't even get home until, like, eight o'clock at night and Jenny Gunnell: That was just his routine and it sounds like, Well, that's a really long day. But he enjoyed it, because it was just familiar and what he did. Jenny Gunnell: So the, the day program continued on for a couple weeks and then they shut down to, so we we had nothing filling our days, and it was hard. And then we had, I had all my the other kids here which so to younger than him that we're trying to do school work and you know I was frazzled, because Jenny Gunnell: They were struggling, you know, with this new format. And then I had this other kid who was super Jenny Gunnell: Talking about Isaac just super confused and just, you know, anxious and upset and Jenny Gunnell: As I mentioned before, he's, he has a lot of behavior issues. So he does get very aggressive. So we had lots of aggressions during that time, lots of people beat up and Jenny Gunnell: Like kids, they're all pretty scared of. And they were before that, but it really got to be hard. Jenny Gunnell: He likes to kind of be around where all of us are. And so that makes it hard, because I'm trying to do school at the kids and Jenny Gunnell: They might be whining, or they might be, you know, disobeying and that upsets him when people aren't you know doing what they're supposed to be. And when there's whining or crying and so Jenny Gunnell: Then he would go after his little sister because she was driving him crazy it was it was a store. It was awful. I don't Jenny Gunnell: So, and, you know, like everybody struggled through it. I'm not trying to say like, Oh, it was way worse than anyone else had it. I know, and every other parent. I talked to the head to Cuba special needs, especially were just Jenny Gunnell: Dying, you know, we were just all in survival doing what whatever the heck we could so AMI CHOPINE: Do you feel like a lot of pants, just like decided that the online that the zoom classes just wasn't working for them. Jenny Gunnell: Yeah, I would say, and I, I try really gave it a good try for a couple of weeks, you know, and I would try and check on Jenny Gunnell: But when I would check on there would be like three kids in the class, you know and and so I figure, probably a lot of them felt like me, you know, Jenny Gunnell: And a lot of them might have been working parents and so maybe kids were staying with their siblings or with grandparents who didn't know what to do or, you know, I don't know. I'm sure there's all kinds of reasons why they Jenny Gunnell: Why they didn't get on but um yeah it's just it's just one more thing for a special needs parents to have to deal with, and especially with a kid who Jenny Gunnell: Who just doesn't get it you know they don't know why they're home. Jenny Gunnell: This is a side, side note, but my daughter, my oldest daughter that's 20 she's an eight and one of the classes at his school she works there and so Jenny Gunnell: Her class just got put under quarantine and virtual learning for the last for the next, you know, until after Thanksgiving. Jenny Gunnell: And that's how the schools been doing it there. They haven't completely shut down, but they just kind of go class by class because the kids are pretty self contained in a classroom. Jenny Gunnell: And they don't interact a lot with the other kids like they don't eat lunch together, stuff like that. They took a lot of precautions, so that they can try and stay open. As you know, as best they could. Jenny Gunnell: But her class did shut down. So this week. She's been home doing zoom classes and she's reporting the same thing that you know like there's there's just something that they don't want to check on this is not ideal for them so AMI CHOPINE: Yeah. What else can we do Jenny Gunnell: I know right and and that's that's the I so appreciate it. I do and I know the teachers do the best that they can, but it's just doesn't work for every kid honey coming fiscal so AMI CHOPINE: Did you did you try to since he wasn't going to school. Was there anything that you tried to AMI CHOPINE: fill those days up with or homeschool Jenny Gunnell: Not much, not much. We were just kind of chatting white we're trying to keep him happy. And, you know, try not to upset him too much because none of us wanted to get beat up so Jenny Gunnell: If I had tried to force him to do when he's home. Jenny Gunnell: Which, you know, as you can tell he's not home a whole lot because he's at school and then at that day program, a few days a week, so he doesn't really have a whole ton of time at home, except for like on a Sunday, you know, Jenny Gunnell: And he fills his time when he's here with his iPad. That's, that's like his go to. He's just looking up Barney videos on YouTube or whatever. That's what he does. And so I think he's just like, don't mess with me. This is my free time and you know I'm doing my iPad so um yeah AMI CHOPINE: Yeah. Jenny Gunnell: We didn't Jenny Gunnell: Do much at all. AMI CHOPINE: Um, so, then AMI CHOPINE: Thing for things a little bit different in the fall, then how did the fall turnout. Jenny Gunnell: Yes, the fall was great because school started again. So yeah, he went back to school, you know, started. Well, let's see. I guess they started like a week later than they were slated to but he started and Jenny Gunnell: Just got right back into routine and you could just tell he was so much lighter and happier. Jenny Gunnell: And then his day program opened back up like a month or so after school started so he's been back doing his pretty much normal routine right now. Jenny Gunnell: We did. We did have sorry during quarantine or whatever the soft closure. We did have Jenny Gunnell: We have several respite workers that we have hired that come in, you know, so that we can take a break. So he did get to see different people here and there you know and like my husband and I would leave Jenny Gunnell: And leave him here. So he was. You know what I mean, interacting means usually a little more interactive with them because I feel like when they come. It's like he's like oh it's playtime like they're going to go. Push me on the swing or Jenny Gunnell: Whatever. So there were some things that went on like that. But even then, a lot of the rest of workers didn't want to work has a coven so it was limited but AMI CHOPINE: Yeah so well. So it was lemonade, and he was at home. So how did that affect you emotionally, mentally, if you want to talk about Jenny Gunnell: Was I was Jenny Gunnell: A wreck. Jenny Gunnell: And yeah, I just, it was a struggle for me, for sure. And I, and I struggle with anxiety anyway. And so it was just kind of at an all time high, because I was worried about Jenny Gunnell: You know his behaviors and the other kids and being safe and everything like that. And then I think it kind of Jenny Gunnell: threw me into a bit of a depression, which I don't normally suffer with as much. But you know when you are dealing with all that for such a long time. I think it just comes naturally. I'm trying to keep my dog happy here. Okay. Stay honey and I'm Jenny Gunnell: Luckily though when just before everything kind of started I had found a new therapist that I was going to start going to so Jenny Gunnell: Almost all through the soft closure and everything I was meeting with a therapist like weekly or every other week or so. So that was really helpful to have an outlet to talk it out with, you know, somebody to talk it out with but um Jenny Gunnell: Yeah, that was, that was a really brutal time and I feel like I have kind of climbed out of that pit you know quite a bit. I'm still not quite there because you know there's still the unknown and like what's what's around the corner now, but um Jenny Gunnell: But I feel like I'm in a better place for the most part, so AMI CHOPINE: Um, yeah. So when he goes to school. Does he need to wear a mask. Jenny Gunnell: No, they don't. They don't require at their school, they can, if they want but they all have a mask exemption. Just because so many of them have sensory issues and so Jenny Gunnell: Like, it's just not going to happen. Jenny Gunnell: Although he will put on occasionally like when they're going out in the community, they go like to the grocery store once a week, and they can usually get him to put it on for like a short amount of time, but yeah. Jenny Gunnell: I haven't. I actually substitute at the school, a couple days a week and I haven't seen hardly any of the kids ever wearing masks. There's a couple that will, but there's like 150 kids there. And most of them never wearing masks. Jenny Gunnell: So, AMI CHOPINE: How does that make you feel actually Jenny Gunnell: But they're not wearing masks. AMI CHOPINE: Yeah, all right. Yeah. What, what's your opinion on that in general. Jenny Gunnell: I, it doesn't bother me at all, of course, all the staff and teachers and workers and everyone are wearing masks and they Jenny Gunnell: disinfecting which I don't know how I feel about that because there have been, you know, studies show that Jenny Gunnell: Can't really live on surfaces for very long. I don't know who knows so many conflicting reports right but um they they have disinfecting periods built into their day like several times a day, and Jenny Gunnell: They just asked the parents to be extra vigilant, you know, like your kid has anything going on. Please keep them home. Jenny Gunnell: They have I think four full time nurses there. So I think the nurses have been pretty busy. They Jenny Gunnell: They asked us to take their temperature every morning, although I'm like I don't, I did it really good for a month and then I haven't done it like that. Last month, and nobody said anything. So I'm like, I don't think they're really looking at that. Jenny Gunnell: But the nurses are definitely you know busy around every class checking on kids and they'll send them home if they have any Jenny Gunnell: Kind of symptom at all. So it has. I haven't really been too nervous about that. And I think there have been three classes that have gone on virtual learning for a two week period of time. So far so Jenny Gunnell: And that's just been in the last little while so AMI CHOPINE: So three classes that does that mean he comes home and they go on virtual learning or just Jenny Gunnell: Yes. Yep. Jenny Gunnell: He would come home and be home for two weeks and I Jenny Gunnell: Just would have to deal with him for two weeks and probably not do any zoom classes. If he does, I will try again and see how it goes. But I'm not going to push it too hard. So AMI CHOPINE: Getting used to it at all, or Jenny Gunnell: And the virtual learning AMI CHOPINE: Or just back and forth this, you know, having the disease. And yeah, having to come home sometimes and then going back Jenny Gunnell: And he hasn't he hasn't had to yet the classes that have been put on virtual they just only Jenny Gunnell: Put the one class on like my daughter's class. She there's 10 kids or maybe eight kids in her class and like five staff. Jenny Gunnell: So just those staff and teachers are home right now. The other classes were fine. The principal has been amazing. She's Jenny Gunnell: She went over and over and over, like the map of that school and their schedule so Jenny Gunnell: They're like you never see a class passing each other in the hallway, like if one class is going to pee. Then there's no one else like out passing at that time. And like the school has like arrows like you have to follow the arrows. Jenny Gunnell: And every time. Like, so after p the PE teachers are I think they hired some extra janitors have to come and sanitize everything that that has been used that P anytime the sensory rooms are used. Everything has to be sprayed down and sanitized and they split up the lunch room so that Jenny Gunnell: Like there's only a couple classes in the lunch room like on opposite sides of each other. There's just not a lot of Jenny Gunnell: Interaction from class to class. And so I think that is what has really cut down. So although my daughter's classes on virtual learning, nobody else was really exposed except for the people that were in that classroom. So if that makes sense. AMI CHOPINE: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, my son was put on quarantine and by the couple days later, the whole school was preventing corn. AMI CHOPINE: Yes, saying that was in the last Jenny Gunnell: Yeah yeah AMI CHOPINE: So, um, AMI CHOPINE: How about you, that is still a lot of stress of this back and forth this Jenny Gunnell: Kind of an I know Jenny Gunnell: I know, and I like my son is also home, as you know, right now, and that was stressful but I'm like, I will do that in the day. Like, I'm just crossing my fingers that Isaac doesn't have to be on virtual learning. We'll see, we'll see what happens. But Jenny Gunnell: Yeah, I can handle the other ones. Okay. It's not fun. You know, it's not fun for anyone, but I can, I can manage. Jenny Gunnell: His is a little harder. Although I feel like if I knew it was going to be a two week thing that maybe I'd be a little more like okay, we can do two weeks. Jenny Gunnell: It was just before the unknown like are they ever going back, are they going to start when they're supposed to do it. You know, there's just no Jenny Gunnell: Tea. AMI CHOPINE: So, yeah. Anyway, AMI CHOPINE: So, um, how about your husband is he, is he working from home and seeing that where he Jenny Gunnell: WHERE HE HE IS. I'M WORKING AT HIS OFFICE HE. I think when Jenny Gunnell: When the school closures happens they they gave all of their employees, the Jenny Gunnell: Opportunity to work from home if they wanted to, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't required and everybody in his building Jenny Gunnell: Decided to work from home. And so he said, well, if no one's there. Then I'm going to go to work, because I won't get anything done. If I'm home with you and the kids and the craziness. And I was like, Dang it. Jenny Gunnell: Don't you want to be here to help get them in line, but no. So he he would go to work in his office, our family was quarantined for like a week when we were exposed Jenny Gunnell: To another family or like a family members that exposed us. And so he was home that whole week. And he hated it. She's like, this is so hard. Jenny Gunnell: Like, I know I hear ya. I know. Jenny Gunnell: So, Jenny Gunnell: Anyway, AMI CHOPINE: Just a minute, my sense as Jenny Gunnell: You're fine, no problem. AMI CHOPINE: At our store to get some stuff my final AMI CHOPINE: Factor that my teachers okay with as long as you guys are okay with it. Okay, okay, I'm AMI CHOPINE: Me. AMI CHOPINE: Just ask him to go get something for he's all right class is hard. You know, AMI CHOPINE: popsicle sticks. AMI CHOPINE: Use popsicle sticks. Jenny Gunnell: That's awesome. AMI CHOPINE: Yeah yeah he's 15 years old so he's my dad. Jenny Gunnell: Where does he go AMI CHOPINE: Paradigm High School. Jenny Gunnell: Oh, that's right. You told me that the other day. That's right. And they've been online. Jenny Gunnell: All year No. AMI CHOPINE: This is the second time the whole schools gone online. Jenny Gunnell: Oh, OK. AMI CHOPINE: Ok now try it with one class, but then if they see a little bit more spread. They're pretty conservative know should shut the whole school down and now we'll go back for two days. This AMI CHOPINE: Next week Thanksgiving week so I Yeah. AMI CHOPINE: But Jenny Gunnell: Right seems pointless, but whatever. AMI CHOPINE: But yeah that's that's how it is. Where, where do your other tool, go to school. Jenny Gunnell: And elk ridge middle and well be. AMI CHOPINE: Mm hmm. AMI CHOPINE: And how they've been handling it. Jenny Gunnell: Um, they've been okay I feel like you know I I was worried about the masks. I thought that's going to be brutal like how are they going to Jenny Gunnell: All of them, right, not just my kids all the kids like I just imagined the teachers being the mask police all day long, but I haven't heard that it's been horrible. I feel like they've just kind of rolled with it and figured it out. They seem to be okay with it. So, Jenny Gunnell: Yeah, I found a new normal. AMI CHOPINE: And my first and my son school. The students were more compliant teachers because the students wanted to stay Out. AMI CHOPINE: So, AMI CHOPINE: Yes. So, but that's older than elementary or AMI CHOPINE: Um, yeah, so AMI CHOPINE: Um, AMI CHOPINE: How AMI CHOPINE: You know, it's going to go on for a little while I you. How are you holding up. How are you feeling about the future. Jenny Gunnell: I feel like I was doing okay until the last couple weeks when the numbers of all spiked really high and the governor's saying like, you know, cancel your holidays, more or less, you know, kinda. Jenny Gunnell: And so, uh, it's been it's been a little hard. The last couple weeks for me. Like I just kind of feel the heaviness. I don't know how else to explain it, but I'm still seeing my therapist and Jenny Gunnell: I up to my medicine and Jenny Gunnell: Lifestyle is a little bit Jenny Gunnell: More negligible like it. It's hard. It's just hard for everyone, but Jenny Gunnell: You know I'm Jenny Gunnell: It is what it is. What, what can you do AMI CHOPINE: Yeah, yeah. What can you do AMI CHOPINE: I guess. Yeah, so far we have been doing AMI CHOPINE: And certainly say you'd like to add or talk about Um, Jenny Gunnell: I can't think of anything. I, I just think that this has been so hard for. Jenny Gunnell: on so many different levels for so many people, but I've been really like thankful for teachers and administrators and Jenny Gunnell: That had just gone above and beyond to to try and open schools and to keep them open. I Jenny Gunnell: It's got to be so. Jenny Gunnell: So stressful for them to know what to do and you know and like school board members and stuff. I would hate to have their job and I know your sons and in a charter school Jenny Gunnell: But I would hate to have that job of deciding you know when and if schools are closing and how long and parents are so mad because you did this and because you didn't do that. And so I am just grateful that for all they're doing. I mean, they're they're doing the best they can and AMI CHOPINE: I got the impression that Turner school administrations, you're struggling with that two parents, you know, Jenny Gunnell: I'm sure AMI CHOPINE: So just all across the board. Yeah. AMI CHOPINE: So what do you say it is harder on AMI CHOPINE: Students than regular students Jenny Gunnell: I mean, Jenny Gunnell: I guess that's hard to say because I feel so bad for all the students that are neuro typically functioning who are missing out. Just on Jenny Gunnell: Like their the school experience that they thought we were, they were having especially high school kids you know they're missing out on. Jenny Gunnell: So many activities and and dances and, you know, just everything like that. It's so sad. It breaks my heart. Jenny Gunnell: But I'm at least there's some understanding and they can be angry and mad and it's hard. But at least there's some understanding like this is a big deal. We have, you know, we don't want Grandma and Grandpa to die. We have to, you know, stay safe so that we don't get it, whatever, and Jenny Gunnell: So I think I probably would say it's probably harder for for kids with special needs, because then people with special needs in general. Jenny Gunnell: Just because that understanding, isn't there, and all of a sudden their routine is just wrecked and that's what they that's what they live on is their routine so Jenny Gunnell: Yeah, I would say it's probably been harder and, you know, you can always make changes and it will be hard for a while, but then they'll get used to that new routine. Jenny Gunnell: You know, but when there's no routine coming for a long time, you know, it's just the same day after day after day. I guess that is a new routine, but not a very good one. If you're just sitting around home all day every day. AMI CHOPINE: So yeah, and AMI CHOPINE: Well, um, thank you so much for your AMI CHOPINE: for talking with me and Jenny Gunnell: You're welcome. AMI CHOPINE: Good luck. Thank you. I'm gonna stop recording now. |
