Jose Salazar, Hispanic Oral Histories, Accn 1369

Salazar talks about discrimination, affirmative action, policies of President Ronald Reagan, the intricacies of being a person hired due to affirmative action programs, and the importance of education. Interviewed by Leslie Kelen, 22 pages.

University of Utah Marriott Library Man uscri pts Di vi si on Accn 1369 Hispanic Oral Histories Jose Salazar ORAL HISTORY INSTITUTE DATE OF INTERVIEW: July 15, 1985 INTERVIEWEE: Jose Salazar (A) INTERVIEWER: Leslie Kelen (Q) ,/k. ?) 2 basically about how you for, when you a was to application I was was about speak situation there lid company when as referred by lost several is what I had that it was the firm and recruiting they into the company. especially at the subsequently what this company department head was was and I the And the believe, by hiring people that and people--the it seems to while and a I think of a And of the defense finally was hired but it The fourth I of theylre being were initially, know that there Black individual and was women aware was one office and I realized that Very few that time that I the interviewers were at employment background, seeking people of the L.D.S. were quite seeking my application. carried by him into the I intentionally, told in business. experience seeking employment. same employed at this was with business people some ethnics at all was There say that because I did get hired with within the area. seeking employment and he no at the time that I qualified people for returned missionaries. cases industry. employment Not the managers but the I did work with those very in many for applied actually doing were and that into the company and hired was lost was I had been with the company for after were and degree application intentional religion primarily hire you they kept going back because I openings were officer within the company. interviewers, the people that me me of the officers of the company and my one times but I business a it turned out the personnel and what did into the missile hired being like to describe. by this gentleman that there which and tell me first married? were Well, lid like A by your firm hired were lid like you to talk to is like for you to do What lid Q that 11m Mexican-American industries which was because of this application interviews is were was hand arranged for me 3 and I hired. was And I did Q What did A Well, the position consisted hire you they primarily of what for, the was position? that of the staff administrator and was doing a control, manpower within the company. engineering departments meetings good job for them. a And that wanted this company to manufacture and--or So contracts. department it contract and reviewing bids for contracts. new that Q Did your position have A Not at that time. in an employment into the and that was was purposes to to anything After I office try comply they to we describing to do with left that initially but hiring I explain it get ethnics employee body population and the same the employment to me government for defense accounting status of that And then other ethnic into a in that office initiating people? I did go to work And now. particular I wasn't hired marketing firm particular department as a recruiter at the time that their into the company for affirmative action with the law which within its hired work but after lid been didn't the particular company was would call do research with management. asked to go into the was for the company and purpose then periodically enjoyable very I even office for the firm that I work for employment for four years very often monitoring costs, working closely with was certain contracts and on job budget control for the to submit to the gathering estimates for the purpose of a our indicates that the firm should have ratio of ethnics that there in the State of Utah the only ethnic minority are within the that is over 2 4 percent of the population is the Hispanic population hire Hispanics they weren't And I for me I it accepted was being asked ethnics within the the company was A At the time I think that a little being were paper we much for it was learning those that people than it we were monitoring we as should make we well. good a understood within So I department for that it growth opportunity a was reason. capabilities to do the work that committed to doing this? it was. We were I was after I'd been what was trying was in that bringing people into it recruiting to with comply for position a the company but to me rather and that we were seems for the that meet the standards of the authority the law in happening was predominant population. Whatever those standards were, had the meeting were it think that go and the ratio of ethnics they didn't fast enough. supervisors is that was higher that quickly so on hiring people department that received these people would very into the company but the was really was ushered out the back door could prove that often let these the law did not I felt that disappointed while because of the result. they so hiring people for. Did you think the company was population into that that had the Q the law. the Asians because good not only for the company but for the some community or policy a to go because primarily that I could do and have them into the company bring mind that of the to requirements Blacks not for the were But the company did faith effort to my They large enough percentage a require that. own there. were the so to let those hiring people to those people let go I think And the training they people were go. or justification they Now my concern into the company but and the weren't such that law also no one required 5 that they be the given for advancement opportunity the company because the affirmative action programs because wasn't still had discriminated industry only in Utah. here exists to large a working with were the It was against throughout in many extent women the with along apply well as a good And country. of the company. parts deal women more than And Companies that being required were for companies They weren't monitored instance that did not have government contracts. it that perhaps small were well as ethnics. as government had government contracts to meet the letter of the law to within women as closed. What do you Q them usher these A think I think, you know, knowing your company, what do you think made people it's part of the traditional had not had ethnics and when all company, And me to they had especially Hispanics, they I think But I remember can interview a it fast? so s a that for the most problem within the company, employed of the sudden sadly enough people. out the back door especially substantial are not used to instance where Black because she had an to death in I did that but that kind of explains the situation. she was had to work with the company is here. to just sure that what it it of the was is that in society, the people. part to a Black in her our the Many people have society. of asked life one And never I think that predominant society culture maliciousness but causes on the interviewing this Black individual. live next to ethnics representative So 11m not I don't know or with these employment supervisor frightened half and working spoken never Hispanics number of them within racism, it's ignorance, really, one part they Blacks and a person to lack of understanding. accept another. But I 6 think that that may have been the situation large number of the work were force Hispanics, was especially level for the A In that he may be the was only cases Hispanic male working I think make it awkward for both In this background. they didn't in the group and for that matter he's of male case communicate well Mexican-American with to try ment or a Q What did you do when you knew that large enough effort was not made were being ushered out the back door? A Well, no explanation other than that was they ever given didn't another one in my they to qualify were us or as and Hispanic or individuals to facilitate the entrance of these made leaving a in many it awkward? In what way very often a particular company supervisors to have in brought we supervisor, for the co-workers, for the individual. Q another ethnic And supervisors. within that group of white females would parties, In this men. female and the predominantly the first female, and when initially no attempt into the so was depart­ opinion. getting ushered--that they to so--I had why these people were misgivings about the . whole program in that I thought that we were just whitewashing the company, you know, going through the motions of Affirmative Action but practicing it. actually not 7 Oh, very much A being hurt. was and within some that the the adjust that that job week's time a Sometimes cases. they youlve being that does released, of dress perhaps as and over a Action is unique is it a Well, 11m afraid--I'm it's probably pretty as think we some for and youlre working to the poor a--even people should, has and an if it may awful afraid their that common--first of of Affirmative recession it would--the current circumstances that all, the circumstances say from 1980 to 1985 may have hired within Utah we handling common? a so over ethnics, qualified ethnics, into industry and psychic-- it's something that whoever that may be, welve been coming out of to curtail aside from justifiable explanation and to Hispanics employer, pretty A what have you. and person's life. You think the company or large percentage-- people But I think that to neatly economic reason, but the lot of power work, in lot of damage to the awful an individual. an a firm good will of the company is going to help you then to find out without and in many along with that, youlre hired into the company to that job for looking littl bit longer but the been because to work for this came to think that everyone I applicant the street on assumption that they don't Q a before out were it took happens frequently to Blacks an had they they that goes rejection to the well be the difficult, I think it's very traumatic it's very on the because heartbreaking actually Everyone involved, especially they quit cases It's so. But since then welve had very often the first and a people the past three a are or such four years, substantial number of into the educational recession and that companies they layoff that are fields, have had the last 8 hired. seniority situation So the those rules within the company why hired from 1978 or 1980 to the of the economic situation, the recession. work a as let these think that that the this it and the community. has really into you'll industry they're small State's see never the qualified applicants Q high A are as Hispanics 5 or from within that 6 the among they as sustaining government is they have. the Black Black, have in been ever population. because the numbers And that actually were hired from within those communities large very communities, our high the Blacks community are And percent. the 1980, 182, why I think I think that double that of the white really 1 surely but the and percent of the there's unemployment Reagan's message affecting your position seen some rate has over the last years? Well, first of all the quota system is not approved of by the Reagan Administration. They believe penalize to best unemployment in say rates because among those groups. How have you number of in numbers population, remained people were go and changed substantially never were nearly they as Hispanic community It's were justifies reducing company may not be committed to a strongly it's easy for them to community it also But ethnic balance within the work force because the an enforcing the laws not people that say So many prevail. union a present may have lost their jobs simply force and very often because balance, if there's into it and enters someone give qualified should an that that's ethnic be selected. an a reverse opportunity. And the They problem (SIDE 2) networking that is required--the ethnics discrimination. do Why believe that the with that is not have the that the networking 9 facilities that the white been never employed within represented in management all in barrier because it's church company, And they're not Action programs not to break that to refer your if these groups do not have been that I required think are Of course, company. they've get off friends, your representatives within the slacking affected are ethnics along released and In your seen it within my company has been that own displaced with the white in terms of and that in that company for opinion--Reagan have work force because of the economy and many of the first that the ethnics have not been develop that do have Affirmative companies that. on youngest employee--youngest are The hired. the situation within my reducing their are to very often the Q and penetrate human nature if you will they're have in the work force at represented hard for them to if So large numbers. it's very difficult for them to break that barrier and to that network that's people and in they cases members, your relatives, if you will, for employment into the company where you work. own industry companies, it's some does because in many population thinks that the seniority--are is what's a But population. happening the because long time. is industry going to pick up the slack of the government-- A That's what seeing that that almost come Q We were ideas. to a they profess, is not happening standstill talking but those of of the about the at all. that us If are anything within I think industry are hiring has ethnics, in my opinion. industry picking up the slack If the Affirmative Action cuts back that the according industry will to take up Reagan 10 the slack. A You said Yeah, few they've come think that from my I Hispanics number of us Action has come to standstill a institutions of the laws. Whereas against. of state, people could say women, that in the they industry be hired quota system comply working to recent It's degree. some a And that's work at force, numbers. primarily least that's the ethnics. population So Neither they and are are they don't that Affirmative the educational not really hiring enforcement of the law, of Equal Employment for that is that the law has been he or changed she has been discriminated class action suit could be made and on any longer some And required Hispanics Now behalf of against. law that or because the that's they are the Vietnamese have the organization group of as a a still certain ratio and the that of the large percentage And require practicing practices that of the they're aggressive, or one people, into the company. Hispanics for group- result of that a law does not are if you will aggressiveness, a taking advantage of in my company. The Blacks and the a that be hired companies one because case don't have the very, think that part of is the woman they're naturally aggressive. large feel carryover of the--of the E.E.O. past but the white situation. all we a we to the that you hire in those numbers. there's And into the company is not and organizations to prove that a industry if any at all. reason past hiring. discussions with the industry, that had been discriminated of That that of own lower management, and number no in lawsuit could be made sue--a would have to women is And the the individual require in are in terms and my perspective the state is that there problem Opportunity to that's in any substantial Hispanics own standstill a know in Utah that that very small the to are not here in any of the other thing, of the white support systems that 11 the predominant population has. So Affirmative Action now it's extent to being practiced some think that the Blacks and the being hired in any not are Q If you real bad A Well, hired to were of in terms in know what to do with a matter of fact interest and my I numbers at some where does degree to my in my for own case 11m not members of our doing any recruiting any longer not to recruit but to become one we do hire or to transfer I should be. because I was my duties to hire into other people brought a purpose and particular people that purpose well as My capabilities--and I think 11m being suppressed to in for are positions being utilized nearly m they as into society so employment supervisors within the company but I don't think that I as that sure haven't lost my the work force but welre not into the company when the company is 11m being developed for promotion bringing all of the of the society you? get signs in the opposite direction. concern our I knowledge. in to the company and it leave And woman. the Asiatics within and because I don't think me. being practiced behalf of the white on all, bring ethnics hiring, limbo to Hispanics if it's some degree is not there anymore. do you think--what Q Why A Well, primarily limited capacity as an into another situation employee in the but not that the best thing for do you me so to do think that capacity is to they're using you can work within the that try for now? to I won't be the token I department "was hired for." Now in I think get out of this department minority a person within the and 12 ethnic among the That must be A It's damaged quite hopefully funny a kind of very difficult a a 1111 perform based near other abilities and future 1111 your original capacity A Well, the employment company for its was as to hire field and people now shallow be be brought brought down as down if self-esteem is I think that ultimately--and other duties. And I have I either way. think that situation right they the can I of enjoyed I recruiting. that part of the company to the leaders are and have the work. enjoy returned? because of the situation the on stay where you was proud of my in Affirmative Action at the time. adjust itself to the political times political But well. perform certainly enjoyed attitude positive to turn around. think the in because one's transfer into another department where Therefore, I think that I would like to going in. to be would you rather or it would work well little ashamed of it think it an capabilities. Would you like to transfer think to be situation Q I position my abilities to on of the company to have requirement personnel office. position with that within the a it's awkward I think for your co-workers and for your bit and to deal supervisor in the employees Q it's Because personnel department. move on do what because industry pretty as now well is industry break down the as have, we much I and 11m because think has I don't think is a attempting happened. it's to the economic times and such that the cost of labor must see it so strength labor rates will probably of the labor unions. And 13 I think that process In addition to burner they so can my is ongoing they 11m working office to bring such and the environment right now that ethnics help bring longer. ethnics and I don't change. productive in the And of into the company. course working with the total employee body that needs our services. the situation like this And help opportunity I my can always for for me to stay in encourage tolerance and good job understanding for coworkers, my fellow supervisors of the capabilities of and if in that. they development. government gets off That there are had them within their It's restricted to the activities within the The support of a within these groups Q in such within the be very employment 'supervisor as these groups because I believe the I could is continue and to do objective But--no, I think that it's harmful much institutional about to are for volunteer basis a on back a is that's not my soul and continue can working are think that the mechanisms counseling of the 'administration. support involvement in the Affirmative Action issues will organizations that employment with the that, I think Affirmative Action is going to take continue but company that now an many qualified people department to give them It's not just ongoing thing. employment office. the backs of business doesn't want to hire ethnic people-- A one Well, thing. I think that They may have--and there may be costs, initially, for tions--there have been to deal with here perhaps many companies some of the ethnics at retraining programs. in Utah because from my see some it as a costly operation truth to this. least in I'm not experience some sure we Some for retraining of--some situa­ that we've had that have many qualified 14 that Japanese-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Blacks, very well. they in come released have. for these skills We test think But I they as in have industry, to your them who government coming in and should hire And thatls what has people. The government has never--who certain is A traditionally types But if Q so stepped in of surprised that they so have been question they has probably should hire and resented why they opportunity an into many of our to people who have companies into jobs. government gets off the backs of business, why is it that business people I would think that stereotyped image productive people, hear these A Pardon me? Q Do you hear these A Well, you name stereotypes And calling. combination of They may Not understand that are. as things. I mentioned they have a are earlier, perhaps they-- bandied around? stereotypes periodically. a its own? people many of them. They do on it's of what those Q derogatory them into the company happened with affirmative action. and offered not been hired slow in hiring these Well, bring the skills perform instances, disappointed that they some answer telling we 11m just qualified employees. as quickly as before can bandied around? 11m not in a situation where I hear, you know, I think that the Affirmative Action programs of the 15 last few years have warned call a someone in the bad case I was because they the laws. can And I be people sued in we You haven't quite from ethnics because afraid to own jobs. is a case use be Spic term I used of the those terms have enforced Companies have grown away from that to a Abusing people that way, stereotyping. have. we in the nigger are now society a as Or they can't That background whether it lose their can do that. Black Mexican which industry but at least from that from the totally ethnic dirty, you they or think that great extent, hopefully Q or child, periodically. a I think that Blacks. they can't because of their name of the Mexican to hear when that people answered my name question, it doesn't know that Not calling. do you think business stays away they're capable, basically, that's it? A think I supervisor a very often has the network that takes church there supervisor Well, the were if there were were place there's or a is if you will, help if you was someone trying see. And we had a that employment instance, say within my employment supervisor that ward to and For The into the company and member that's out of work employment supervisors quicker, an employment supervisors that individual that much within the company. person that that would be able to hire job lot to do with who is hired a of that church parishes, people a and whenever members hiring. lot of it has to do with who's doing the it for the church is the individual in each of the wards find and employment a job. each of network among ourselves and those themselves that had a job within a company into the company, that network would to find a job I think that and that person would find type of networking exists. help a But 16 you've got as a or manager those jobs a as supervisor to offer. extent within this as think I Well, or the referrals and large into the company. (SIDE 3) that's What happens to industries Now, as As result of that, the a bring Q Which is A I don't think it beings have with, people that get a fair and Now a some on are looking think that those job. will not get that to position bring in before, the Blacks and the networking were is not there just such that they in very if even wanted to think that for whatever reason, we to try and with, and as looked at are for the will are Hispanic, opportunity a I pretty think, at those result of Hispanics not, then it's difficult in many cases to will grades and their referrals, their by employment officers. exceptional Hispanic get a that circle and the great qualifications, I think, the basis of their we bring in people that we're familiar go to church of the other ethnics with people But the average with, we part of that cycle professional schools, they companies a positions within industry really biases and work people hearing is. really our we that, if you're not get hired. great not the case. really and the Blacks a into the company. the ethnics human in are stated I the ethnics don't have those numbers. someone you have employment supervisor, good will of the management of the company the as an to refer position a community. Employment supervisors within Hispanics in to be able to be within the company or the fair chance at and jobs the average And if exceptional Black an interview and Black, because very often a very often those filled word of mouth from within the company, the relatives of the jobs are employees 17 that work within the company. Q You A Sure they get mean they system, And those do. have tried to be A It that So the compelled. was They provided opportunities same the through quota of the managers depending upon results that the now of companies for justice. quota system was. compelling before, maybe. was compelled were and past, through Affirmative Action good will is what we1re the achieving achieving before--or in the tried to be fair they've employment supervisors and somehow that isn't Was and objective it first? companies, that has been eliminated. and of the Q to know about employment it to do before, you for ethnics where And see. so hadn't been they there before. You Q behalf of activities on think see A they Well, at was the As subsequent not be time me that the company knows Hispanic people outside the company. involved in thought he had help to I matter of a reason that that would But before to about your How do you that? one involvement. that mentioning once were us that they liked that because of the fact, the manager of the department told approached to recruit me because of my into the company many community activities as community me that contacts and Hispanics into the company. that, the last about two years ago I as community I am was told that because it I should might 18 So there's been interfere with my work. was so long number of And Hispanics and--that I not into the company of us. in Do you think you've A I think I so. certainly hope that now it's not community connections. gratification I'm remain can get employment, if they have can citizens who will I little a people the go pride in himself on with their education You see, it's not by the company? But to redirect my understand that. it and discouraged by I'm looking for energies within the company elsewhere. employed with the company but sometimes I that, too. What do you mean? A Well, need for I think that many least for the What do you think could perhaps I was immediate as a then if there were no longer a within the company and if in their recruiter and future, happen? could be released employment supervisors minds my value to them at certain a manner. used do. I'm that I'll Q as develop been surely It's not unusual. opportunity in bring desirable but if that father positive a Q wonder about was to have these If these get their children educated, and with their lives the it to Hispanic community but for my total community, for the only before his children he will new. to recruit and It see. from that and the good that I think that personally get State of Utah, for all can was complete reversal, you involved because I'm involved because of the I'm still doing policy recruit, it's undesirable to required the company as a they no longer need to recruit, perhaps they may think that they can 19 reduce me from the work good work done force. I would and the company has And has benefited. I think that hope not benefited, I think that I have benefited. continue to benefit can we because The mutually have community from our relationship. Q It's A Well, a tough position all it is. It around. It's difficult and, of course, is. discouraging periods when things going through that process available to the our think that I begin working in my times that on Q a You have think that welre that or the according voted to what I that And people live going through they in this were poorly trained, funds seen so it have to it a is are being discouraging happen two three or over now the past but I have to work harder to allocate community and to organize trough right think resources that need that assistance. change your point of view? Republican point Well, yeah, live issues to to the that going toward other ends right now, in this company. goals. like welre seems my communication action activities involvement, attempted are cyclical thing behalf of other citizens and unemployed up because the federal resources toward these people will realize of view A gain own 15 years and I it's It that many of the services and to the primarily military expenditures but now drying are away and most of pulled right handicapped many of those services to turn around. seem have these I Take on the company point of view? Republican in the past believe in and then vote and I try to evaluate the in that direction. As a 20 matter of fact 11m wondering if it's not wise to the powers that be. the country right with them is somehow needs of the community dollars will They or hopefully to be seem in power. align ourselves with to groups within political And by say align ourselves to work closer with them to communicate to them the try Hispanics and instance the conservative For now. try the Blacks more be allocated of our to restore or refugees that the tax dollars some are within state-federal or our state and of these programs that have been cut back. Q So youlre of view. used to not talking Youlre just talking That's true. Q 11m A No, I don't believe talking to educate and about about have you to talking and so. I thought changing your point other some pople spokespersons. Hispanic community which I Hispanic community to be employed, contributive to many haven't made it and I think if we and changing your point 11m doing speak on I relate very 11m very comfortable think about think that speak--educate others that need community really in terms of alignment an than youlre talking to. A society about working are on right thing behalf of closely it to be some to the behalf of the the American I want the of view? in in trying our Hispanic goals goals, really. of the want the educated, I want it to be fields, research, music, the sciences, places where a large impact yet. continually But work toward we I think welre capable of doing educating youth, finding our 21 for those of jobs regard and make even think we've made miners field or that need us a some of will us contribution than we've larger a jobs, that I think that that contributed to the well hands, And made. already lived, whether contribution wherever we've large in that score we were being of the country. That's Q a nice A In the Sure. way toward the well being for advancement and to type my me own educated recognition a society respects children are in that direction. going are doctorate behind your name, that regardless society. I out being left see being good-old-boy networks, of the advancement leadership will think be by in to say that they by the white Anglo background. to be process today. industry, at least not it can't be done. Saxon into industry And going industry to I think that women in those within our strides and that the ethnics are So I don't have confidence that my own they're making pretty good in this if you will. into title of that seem made within the Somehow it those that have not shared immediate relatives and friends would make any have made and go on opportunities I'd rather have them I think go that way than into the in a of your ethnic onto advanced education accept ethnics positions I think their because greater along those lines. lack of progress that I majority they're well hoping that they will I'm industry because of the the--the I think that children, citizens. into if you have that that the own of my rather than professions seems case goals of the goals of America. the and Spanish-American you make between the needs and the linkage in the more progress than immediate future. I think that we're progressing perhaps But that's not in this country 22 in terms of and different than we advancements. But I do lot of ground lost a Q Thank you. you A are talking tolerance for those and acceptance in the wanted I have so see hope that we1re a pleasure and ith stepping that back we right little bit are a are making now, some that we1ve last four years. to, as you know, to me. It's been people that to talk to you. talk to you about this so I appreciate