Phyllis Zuniga Rodriguez, Hispanic Oral Histories, Accn 1369

Rodriguez (b. 1919) describes her childhood in Nevada and her marriage at age 13 when her father died. She also talks about life as a migrant worker, labor agents, life in Bingham, Utah, and raising her children. Interviewed by Sandra T. Fuller, 52 pages.

University of Utah Marriott Library Manuscripts Division Accn 1369 Hispanic Oral Histories Phyllis Zuniga Rodriguez ORAL HISTORY DATE OF INTERVIEW: INTERVIEWEE: March 11, Phyllis Rodriguez (A) s INTERVIEWER: 1985 . T. Fuller (0) INSTITUTE 2 Rodriguez, could you please tell Q Mrs. name and then your last A Phyllis Zuniga Rodriguez. Q Could you A Z-u-n-i-g-a. Q And then me your first name and your maiden name. please spell the last two for me. Rodriguez is spelled R-o-d-r-i-g-u-e-z. Okay. And when were you born? A May 26, 1919. Q And where A I Q Where A I Q Now you A No because was were born you born? in Nevada. in Nevada? think it wasn't no--it was Caliente. you're say I was not certain. sent for my birth certificate and unknown. they told me that there 3 Q Really, well, A I what do you do when that don't know. my parents gave me I haven't done away when I was happens? nothing about it because I don't know. little and my foster parents, See they raised me. Q Oh, uh-huh. A My mother, I call Q Right. A My mother didn't so know was too old and English either. I didn't have--no died in Q How did he die? A Oh, he had and he her my mother and my dad because-- she didn't know how to write And my dad died when he place, how to go about was or about it to find out for read and she 37, I think, My sure. dad 1932. got an some kind infection Q An abscess? A Uh-huh. of infection that he got. They pulled out in him. And he died. And my mother, she was too old. a tooth 4 your real Q Okay, knew why A My Q Right, that's A Um-hm. Q When A They always now, dad the me you, used to tell and wanted did they ever say me that they were child So A Um-hm. Q That's nice. A And my mother and my dad didn't want did have when a raised--and that's was I it for? a sent Oh, a never their name? they were relatives? my dad and my mother because badly. why--the reason me so they I don't why took birth certificate because I wanted to get me an 1.0. and I needed oV really birth certificate before with that town that for You everything. Q they was were. Zuniga? they accepted they baptized What people. they Anastasio. named was knew who never to these other given were you parents, you I and that's know where. was born why But in but it for--what did I need they just told me that there 5 wasn't no such--it was just unknown. cate, my communion, unknown. Q So you A I Q And then you A Uh-huh. Q Did A No. Q Now his A Juanita. Q Juanita. A Yes, my mother Q She was? A Um-hm. were baptized And that's So I don't know for why I have it in my certifi­ sure. in-- think there in Caliente. they were given have any other name was Were the Zuniga children, Anastasio and her they older was a in name. these name general people? was? when they got you? lot older than my dad. 6 Q Had you heard of ever like that anything since then where someone was much older? A No. Q How much A I don't know for about 20 So he Wow. A About 25 Q So she A They The A Yes. know if do now. was was too small, were just living together. community you'd was real young when he died. she would be-- and almost 60 when he died. were You 37 She must have been you know. 30. or was they Q I sure. she was? 25, I guess years older because my dad or Q know if older do you think married in Wow, that's incredible. They weren't married. Mexico, maybe they were. When I guess--I don't they were younger. considered them married. know, the laws weren't like they been married or whatever and they are now. didn't They just wanted look into it like to they Q Right, right. A So Q You had I don't know. of those it So that's what makes first communion so you and your kind of family complicated. went to church and did all things. A Yes. Q So A Yes. Q What did he do workwise? A Oh, Q What did Juanita do? A She used to Q Do you know what A No. Q What type of they he were accepted. used to work I guess stay at on the railroad. home, housewife. type of railroad work he did, putting spikes in, whatever, ties, a town was it that you lived in? do you remember at all? you know, and rails. 8 We lived A so many the in know what section--you a little houses that the workers only family. And it was Q So Anastasio and Juanita moved A Yes. Q Okay. A And place I think the nearest ones know were was A No. Q Tarama? A Um-hm. I went to school had they a single Lake, I an We ones. I guess. were don't in--I think the schoolhouse there and of Utah. area more--the nearest So there weren't any other little children. And Oh, they just have 20 miles about Q Well, Most from Nevada to little farm we in. is? is anymore. remember where this And the other live section kind of far from Salt even lived. a name of that went. we from where one I was we about 20 miles. place is went with Tarama. some other American kids and went to school. Then you lived in the section for Q Okay. were pretty permanent, in other words. quite a while in this area. You 9 A There. That's the lived we work he did. only I one. was real small one. I don't remember that I don't remember the I nothing. name don't know how one. of this other come I stuck to that then. in But Yeah, right. in another But can't remember for place. Q And then the section, then, you were the only child. Was it lonely? A was have It Oh, yes. had to always--we now. Our water those pumps. And Because there was. we wood and chop was we nobody, just my mother. didn't have the facilities in the house, you had to get the water had to go And my mother like get it from outside, and my mother used to fill we one of barrels full of water to wash and to have drinking water. Q How did you bathe? A In Q A tub that A You know They have two handles? Q Were a tub. was one inside the house of they black? or-- those, what do you call it? A big one Haven't you of those--number three. ever seen tubs. 10 A No, they Q So A were-- they're made out of aluminum weren't they? Yes. . And A Um-hm. Q That's A A Q Right. A They Q In the number three A In a Q Did you A Yes, I used to help her chop wood and bring it in the house and bring our it's number three? Q I interesting. That was washtub. help get in in whatever. a smaller one has to be three. that, too. one. How did your mother do laundry? And wash board. her do a in, in the house. me and And what about for your father? yours. used to bathe used to have or remember that. person can't big coal a lot of these And we had things? some--couple chickens go out there and feed them and put that she water and clean out always their--coop 11 Q Did you hunt for A Yeah, Q How old A I must have been about something thought eggs? used to we were I had to blocks and then weld help. split You had your A Yeah, my mother used Q Where did you A Oh, I don't know. So helped Q Now they were United States? A Not her that she had own real was a And we lem with hard woman, used an remember. think I you or six, know, my mother. She to cut these ties I axe. had my seven and cut little lem in axe. to have hers and I used to have mine. get it? My They must have dad didn't from Mexico. Did she son barely helping? axe? ever background, a I seven. She Q them. ern. you do you think when you started around there. that I get and a no. have Did bought it someplace. no they time, ever he was tell It was small. always working. why they you came to the talk much at all? The daughter only thing I in Mexico and she used to tell remember he had a son and a me daughter is 12 I went--one of my Tiajuana. the graduation she I don't know, Which in Mexico too. when he graduated and living--she in the Marine was sons still was found I Corp and that out was we living went in over for lived there--his she daughter. Q Oh, his daughter. A The Q Did you meet? A Yes, I met her. Q Really? A No, I don't think she was This A I an, cleaning, summer. some a blind, never can't she did come over here. see. did get married. ever She needed her eyesight. She cousin--no, aunt. how old? don't remember. them with Q wo She's He she married? Was living with Q and boy, I think he's in Mexico. All she used to do used to scrub her brush and soap and floors, they used Used to build fires and boil Right, right. In 3reat big tubs? is chop wood and water and had these wooden to boil washing floors and scrubbed their clothes out in the their white clothes. 13 A Um-hm. Q They boiled all A So Q Did--how A It wasn't too they would the front had those ugly A I used to no Q What did A They place. Q the white shirts? real white. out the house? I big. think had two just it rooms was something like and the bathrooms the were kitchen and outside. They sleep? in sleep a little bed in the same room in a little bed because other room, you know. they never did We used to afford to things, cottons, all bathrooms. Where did you was was We Q there come large room. the white bring us Milford, oh. do for fun? nothing. come in They didn't have into Salt Lake to Salt Lake. once There in was no a way of going out in any while when my dad could this other little town, Milford. 14 in Milford. there stopped right A It Q So you A We used to go there because Q It's A Now, it wasn't then. close to Milford? were big railroad a had we town. We used to go there go out and drink and then the they'd friends there. some couple visit and that used I friends and sometimes our to go with, (SIDE 2) Q Your friends A And I to used with them so Was A Well, live always thought care for a them, you know, they used They to going violent, is Q be real daughter you said. stay here with were me. They to drink quite if always telling didn't a me stay stay there. I this a -tv &ho she's youlre drinking there with stay My mother used bit. just their friends had or no. girls. youlre telling me? Could have been but she--I don't know, She about. never did care for She liked boys but she didn't like strict with wonderful that what me and person. spanked He never me quite did hit a us. bit. it's girls. girls. just something Yeah, she didn't And But my dad, she used to no, he was that 15 It sounds Q kind of odd that A think that she to sit me in forget him. was kind more his lap, just An I they would like a of like real wanted adopted He a was That's real a because there was no why telling you about because this and she wouldn't She'd tell from. to go tell Q me youlre little you when get give so me any, ask for lady she'd hide things 11m not going to because he used I can it and she'd give me. get They bring lem mad know where me But little farm that I at some. me they give you any, that's mine. my dad and my dad would go and held never good father to used to make cakes. and you don't then. facilities there. sometimes my dad used to go and by these cakes from this was girl jealous, jealous daughter. tell my kids that. couldn't get wherever have And because come So I used she used to mad. The other that you family stayed with that daughter about your age? about the A Yeah, Q Were you friends? A Yeah. Q Did she have brothers and sisters? same . . had the daughter, was the 16 No, I think she only had--I think it A live didn't only about all Just the one. I one. mean And here that just one Small child. it seems And kind of odd to about two of them which you1re talking have something that they they me to hear big families. of these Mexican families with Q or She lived with her parents. together. had that cousin a was Did your Huh. family. youlre friendly family ever with go on picnics? A No. Q That's an of that very where all interesting big desert the horses it's different. I now A We welfare and that wasn't enough. been working this place--it My once dad was the railroad on was lines of houses, An month, like one on they wouldn't give a used a so we or more came mountains, like to go. give us Youlve about now got all river, I guess I wanted to go when my he can't Everything get around. five dollars--a check for was cheap you know but came to Salt Lake held to Salt Lake to live'and he found After working. motel any to month. each side. us I everything. that very lush--the in the he can't drive and they and youlve got haven't been there. So when did you leave? five dollars every then and then very lush Q on and area are husband could drive but was around Milford area something like that. And my dad money. we It had these big couldn't afford to pay rent. So my dad got into this job of 17 cleaning places, clean a so toilets and the could live there. we table and a bed. So This would have been A Yes. Q So he died here? A Uh-huh. Nineteen what? And they told my an the easiest way out. and orphanage to California I and worked from sundown to sunup Q You A Yes. Q Okay. that ill? A Well, mean I in the either over We had our to stove, after my dad died-- so I would we have to go to and like got married. got married and we And I took so room. had mine. an of these one didn't want to go in orphanage took mom one depression. Thirty-two? she would have to go to and the during just was their beds had they Q And that So he used they left them. when rooms I she didn't want to. lot of these kids a was And nowadays, I didn't want to go to 13. lived here for there for 10 cents orphanage an a an while. hour. Then we went Had to work morning. in California? Your mother, did she think, did she know that your father she didn't. Maybe she did. He was in the hospital. was 18 he in the Q Was A Um-hm. Q Do you A County, that Q An hospital? remember which one Quite a while he got the abscess? hospital? 21st South. on that would have been Do you 1932. remember all the food lines in Salt Lake? A No. Q What was--this motel A It was have these that you talk about, where down--what do you call big buildings You were A Yes, I Q Which school A I was went to going were now. Were you 13 then. Q to that, it in school. you Washington. going to? school? was right was it? there by West High. They 19 Q Okay. A Well, Q Were you and your mother A No. home and He a dies, very did you have poorly a it. A I Q Did you A Yes. Q Why? A I don't More to herself. Just go to church and back Come to church and back home and go to catechism. Which church did you go to? to go to funeral? part of the whole Hispanic Latin community here? Q used a one. She didn't mix too much. that's nice--did you have Guadalupe, that was right here on 1st South then. like it? know, cause Father Collins was alive then. He was so nice, wonderful person and the sisters they had there, they were/nice, they wonderful. I really loved to go to catechism. holy communion and my confirmation. Q That would have been nice there. a real were That's wbere I made my first What kinds of things did you learn? 20 A to used to Oh, they--I school summer teach All making lamp shades. Q Of course, really nice. lid Who The sisters and Q Was A It had the church We used to quite play a kind of in your area bit a school. summer lot of a us forget how were A to come to make summer used was to come things like embroidery, sewing, which things That lamp I have shades forgotten. too. It is hot out there, school? large area? lot in the back where they had these swings, slides. in the back. Q Were most of the kids A Yes. Q Were A Anybody Q Itls A Yes. they mostly Hispanic? from the west side or could anybody go? could go. really famous. They didnlt have it like now, you know, each one has their area 21 call whatever you there and Oh, Q go to a A No. Q In could I it come all you could to so certain the way over used to over here. that you wanted to. anyplace live way You just didn't have to one. in this this, Then you could--because I now. area where you were living, were there a lot of other nationalities also? Sometimes you know, A like they Sometimes families would come come and go. in and ______ Get friendly Q And then A Uh-huh. Q At the A I Q Really? A That was with all they'd those children. move? Washington School the was only Mexican. going there. were there-- A they'd lot of families would have two or come three children. 22 Q Huh. A I I wonder where Like I tell you like these families, don't know. while and then mostly all then And leave. they'd I'd go with them they were? A I Q Did you like it? A Oh, I liked school pretty good. don't think I'm real A lot of A I They do Q But you A Oh, yeah, I read. us just for a in and then Because were What I enjoyed more Up to this day I still the drawing, singing am. are. have my kids it. go come so. bad at arithmetic. Q they'd would good student? Were you but some ones by myself. Q a other all are grown up, I wasn't good at used to never I have them out my bills out. figure good. drawing. love drawing and read. Still, I still like to 23 Q Did it matter what you A Not then, Q Everybody else didn't A No. only to you now I'm we either? little bit better off than a were wear tell you my mother didn't have no I since was way, was didn't have we the no come to the point of where your father dies. That's a big shock sure. Like I tell you, A Yeah. Q And your to have very much to know I didn't. I nothing. or So Q like I but to school? didn't have very much to wear, Maybe they one money we wore he was so good to me. how had you met this mother--yeah--so man that you were going marry? A Right there in that And know. we place where we got married. he? Q How old was A He Q Twenty years older. was same 20 years older than I Is that was. a normal-- used to live. He lived there you 24 A No. Q What did your mother think about this? A She didn't think and put high heels at they'd laugh no on nothing, she let me. and You Say me. everything. mom, other--what else could this your No, he asked me, you know. had Q in went a big person imagine--I tell the kids, Say well, there wasn't know nothing like this. I said like all was I okay. didn't know what these children now, blind. But I stayed they married I was know getting everything. for 23 years. ten, eleven kids. what did Well, or--did you A as up idea? A just me I do. Was We didn't can dressed how could you do that? Q into. They ever they--did person. What A Benito. was priests hear them talk about They probably Q the his name? I never ever say anything to you or the sisters oh, poor Phyllis? did go out that much because he was jealous 25 Q Was that his first name? A Yes. Q What A Lozano. Q L-o-z-a-n-o. A No, not really. Q Now, what did your mother do? was his last name? So he was 20 years older. Good provider? ORAL HISTORY DATE OF INTERVIEW: March 14, 1985 INTERVIEWEE: Phyllis Rodriguez (A) INTERVIEWER: B. T. Fuller (0) INSTITUTE 2 Q Want to talk? A My Q When name where you we is Say your Phyllis Rodriguez. finished were please. name talking the other 13 years old and you house, the place you were to Mr. Lozano. get married. living day, were had we just gotten in this--it sounded to the like a place horrible in and your father had died and you decided Now, you had known him you said Benito Lozano. in the-- A Well, just, you know, he used to live there. Q Did he say why A No, I guess he just sort of liked me, I don't know. Q You A I ever laughed Q You didn't? A He took was a you? I was too dumb. were. thought I he'd of he wanted to marry Come and go. too was at N &..d (! now that I think about it. We never did-- me. jealous, lot from him for too a demanding. long time and There came finally I a time when just got I just--well, kind of tired. 3 Q Was he A Yes. was to all abusive to physically time Every he let me I had my babies he wouldn't That's go. know to defend myself probably why because Q Oh, you were scared of him. A Tell if I ever me else, which I do when you have scared. always was never had I a scared. a you? did did, I I was or Every I was You less or more father who tells you to do this time many kids. so I 15 was days, that too dumb something like that to find somebody scared, I thought lot of chances. rest me scared. was leave him I had let even and like when you to do that. I know, when you1re young how--I pregnant he used to tell me whose was was baby it this time. Q Really. A So you Q I heard other imagine what I can sometimes real jealous? A Oh, I don't Q These were women say that. Are know how older had men. to go through. Other Mexican women. Are Mexican they brought up? they're brought up. Most all of them-- men 4 A know because I I like that, talk to to too. are, still They're And nobody. there are Q Yeah, right. A They just house. of couple kind of myself daughters that some that they 11m older by were, are married to look at You can't jealous. now that talking something nobody, you can't and by saying hi there's nothing wrong there. I guess they still are But if there are around. some you to I a you know that you know them, somebody they got stay don't want you to communicate with and Nowadays talk all there's the time and raise a lot of Q Where did you live? A Well, Q You did go to California. A Uh-huh. Q Had you A No, I had my first child Q In California? we lived down that already women place anybody and kids and work, you that wise up and there and then we they they just know, clean don't-- went to California. had your first child when you went to California? over there. want 5 A Uh-huh. Q Did you know how babies A Uh-uh. Q Was A I made? were No. he--you looked at him sort of like said beforehand that you think because I donlt think I love him, you know. did ever I a father. never did. Q You were A And then when he started you so young. know, I thought more or telling less I me all thought this and doing more you know because--even the doctors up there in just told and he later Q on No. used to to go So Okay. of what A 1111 was them it was none or less I things like that, started to Bingham they talk of their business. The doctor resenting to him got one time mad which talk about. were going you scared on your wedding night? Did you understand any on? I wanted to go sleep together. sleep with my mother. And my mother told sleep with your husband. I know I Like I did before because me no, you start crying. we got married, you have I wanted to go with my 6 mother. you got I felt married, Do you A I told because things I She when start I the end of How they it or But what right, was She menstruating. her. nothing. one time But I had I come she did that. I guess thought didn't to some use natural guy and this found me I with no, And me. told never I never did say rags boy I were big, I used daughter I guess you not was Q Why. A Uh-huh. Q Very hard, not kind of hard, very hard from my point of view. A It was. So it And so was we And I didn't in heard She used to nag and some that. 'em up never with and nothing had these and wrap 'em and me had been out with they that. me I that would woman know told my oldest She told but not her. that And even she She wrong. to me. one was Now when my kids started about that age, was She nothing. me the time she used to tell All it. nag at me. was scared.to tell bag and hide 'em. scared and more no you? somebody had done something that was for told never what that you could them when sleep scared was nothing me even somebody, a think she don't know. nothing got you with your husband me badly. so Q never to go tell you she told like I didn't get to because she told me, I to tell to be out there know. kind of hard. went to California and over there we had to work from 7 sunup till sundown to make of--we used to hard to get pick tomatoes Did you have--was A No, have no No lived housing in tents so Q Um-hm. A We had they had there. Q Were the A Um-hm. Q You A I Q Did you have to were used to pay and spinach us so 10 cents we a pound had to work real we had or to The furnished? we lived out--some of those or only thing could we use those. And the And was family--there of the majority there people use a a was lot of a or people lot of there Mexican? We went allover. car how did you were the bathrooms they ones. in Southern California? allover. places they didn't out--you know, out in the open. live in tents you know those old fashioned outside, was They and peas and housing facilities, nothing. had living. little bit of money to live. a Q we a get around? women that worked like camps with little kids. 8 A We had bought And a old an car that car took from here. we friend of and we went--this they stayed with us for a So there was more than A There wasn't just us, Q So there two A And Q Did all A Something like that. Q And did you have anyone your A No. Q Were you allowed to have any A No, he didn't like that. Q No was This friend of took some of us one family they were single, just single males, your husband, your men--were girlfriends. had there. there. two men they all companions own to each age to talk to? friends? that went-- mother and-- me. the ours over long time. Q but ours other? 9 A He used to tell No. you know what's do, whatever. going in their on Used to tell nothing because wrong. It was that's how me you'll probably the over there. So pits. married do what worked year Q Okay. So you went in A And worked here and worked got we leave my mother. mother was didn't care He wanted I went over My mother's going leave her to get along with so start we Q Right. A So, he told me--he told me he says, my first quite a well, go ahead, go then baby. And so while. And they into that. He didn't go. week. And that really a was wonderful we came got pretty good. lady. was something same Well, told you before. me back too was my And and forth and old. There She couldn't talk well, they leave. I we English. think I her, 11m was expecting lived there for it WSCRA and WPA then. was I told him nothing she was if you don't leave to Sacramento and And he into that and he used to work three And I got And she used to to is mother-in-law and son-in-law. ahead and had this what He I fighting leave her because she nothing. said imagine it there and then he wanted as It or leaving. can to tell you couldn't leave her. She couldn't work could do. You to things, there for--we went 19--the over too old. for each other that much. to you not to do nobody life and in your on 1932 there. kind of hard to me not was we they do. over I going I don't want Says we what's they tell life and no. me, people me give a me good caseworker. She days was clothes for the baby and got a 10 she was a when she wonderful was clothes. So then get they were bring stayed we decided that he had that And she used to go all person. She'd born. me all there for a Who did you have to A Some guy that--I don't remember his Q The A Something like that get a So he job. settled and starts over there and me over he said working. Q so much to a place real name. So it so to was. we He had to pay a I one just stayed me was nothing. was to and day live in live in the hotel? an a Bingham he gets then he wanted hotel. I get in there uncle here days till it was, better than what I didn't like dead, you know. of couple much to ha didn't want to go. stay. We had so here and over stay here for live in anyway but Where did you came looked what I had to live at, what There crying. I think came something, you know, well maybe it was know, here pay? He wou1dn't let Right away. start have to pay you over labor agents? My uncle told then. got had come job there. a go. baby I made while and he worked and then he But you at Kennecott. hiring the see for her. brother here and his brother told him to a Q to the time to kinds of clothes had me to And when oh, my gosh, To ever because I me it was had--to thought it 11 lived at this Bingham Hotel. A We Q In the main A Yes. Q Did you have two rooms, A No, it Q Regular hotel. A Yes. Q What did you do about food? A Well, they had Q In the room. A Yeah. By the time I got here I Q So you were A Uh-huh. ? __ was just one a one room? room. little stove there that had two kids could and cook. another one on way. in California then two-and-a-half years. the 12 Q You had A I Q You had the her daughter first? over there. with your something the other day that you still played were telling me I used to play dolls. A Yeah. married because n could . he used to go out of town with And while he did of town. had with my friends. a some job I got and he used to work out had that, you know, I played with my friends and I that I So, I don't know, I guess I thought play friends after was still young, that I with dolls. Q Did your friends A Yeah. Q Were A Well, they Q Fifteen? A Uh-huh. There had--we used to all play about the they were a was too? same age? little bit older than a family there that play together. And-- I was. she had five--five girls and she 13 In Q Bingham you A Well, they--his got wife. a Now, how did you find came. like place a Q And you A Yeah, a were I lived we a A mother. house? brother had tell you in You had two children when you everything arranged when we got back. He hotel. a in the hotel? lived there quite while till a we could get a house. Maybe about year. it difficult? Q Was A It some people was kind of. Because there And we look for house, And we went to finally live there. a kitchen and this in Now where A Just Q It's called upper Bingham? was got we it And Q a too many living--you like noise and you know how kids don't two bedrooms and was a one had, and it think lot of other was it So are. an was know how it was--I they are, thought. apartment upstairs. three people they rooms. used to It had live there. Bingham? little ways from where we used to live before. In upper Bingham. 14 Well, Q Now, what A I think he started Q On the Kennecott Railroad. A I And it little bit. A was up a your husband doing? was on think that's the way then after he the railroad first. they went, you know, got promoted to work in the water service department. like it? Q Did he A Oh, yeah, he liked it. Q Then where did you go to live? A Well, a lot of summer. we lived people in this there. The kids would share because apartment house. Sometimes play together I then I'd go was So some too but into the because my kids did of those It had three bedrooms. sit outside and talk out there. it had cement and you had get all dirty. imagine used to we the cement because the soot used to I started them from the bottom. to But we all wash--everybody There during had to clean took turns was the our walking get on--when the kids would play, they'd people were kind of difficult to live with. I wouldn't let my kids out. little house and these people this and my kids did that. After be they out there start fighting fighting And my kids didn't do it. So 15 I never like the kids. did there, you don't talk So then things. seen that--it place It rooms. about was or one just we downstairs. And where A The same--about the Q So A Uh-huh. Q How much money A He wasn't or It about three Q stubs got a--had it had about was everything fight--they're together to each other and two years and then And you know. was You to And went four, four big. from there--we And five over we got another Not that many live there for to another house--this or were That's the way bigger house. a little bit a rooms. we they're together. get was and you was a house, rooms. that one? still was was making same place. in upper your husband too much then. Bingham. making I at that time? never knew because I nothing. Q How did you go to the grocery A Well, he had credit. Q Oh, I see. store and stuff like that? never see check 16 A Credit but money I Q So you did A Yes. never did in the town everything like groceries, down to the store and charge it. started getting a little older. for--they real needed less what or Then nice. I him when used to tell But still. It managed till finally stay there and he'd come in out them for And I fighting, just didn't--we come in about 3:00 there, you know, and start everything in and he'd start took it thought asked on for I quite During the I I'm just leaving. me out and he'd fighting you know and it wasn't get money How old were you then? could have money This guy was him to 4 o'clock come and no came with me. expensive that's the way in the had all they we morning. these wo en He'd working he used to rotate with them and in making more so give So he to go down to that town and he'd And if you guys want to They all I like tamales the kids tell about that time and he'd the kids cry and all while but then after when my kids said so and we'd go until my kids see boarder. a Course war the water pumps. don't have to take this the kids got used or going a more Then next time he wouldn't have to pay. we you know. needed did never needed money, kind of hard to was we to sell--make food used I The kids had to have this and that. then. I But money, at school. something the money ahead of time. did. Q more credit? on enchiladas and the kids would go sell and me Well, see. because started can that. getting big, I don't have to. stay, you come And I stay, but I'm not. 17 A In my thirties. Q And how many children did you have A had all when came. doctor told Benito he said of them. that it was well, it died. He because--he asked me. one did you know this it Because it must have been dead about didn't get Q Right. A Well, He 18. a real he well, says already got have to worry so he could so baby was born was was just And 'ea. baby a the He said what--are you and full month the doctor told And having problems. lost you've born--it was just--she we're said yes, which get out Wait he says, and then I can much about I had to come--he Okay. a I out of school. back defect but he a Q and was born was time but It's me. dead, it was it dead-­ wonder a was I that gangrene. nice doctor. of then? the smallest--she fighting, having problems? account of that. on had had another I me I by passed him. over minute. had my He says you can you. taking and work. came a help I care know I get your can son a of the other kids. He wasn't Which he did. here to boy who live and help job helped you. me I got a Now where did your son go to work? job. he a He was you won't so He had supposed to but And he already was some kind passed him lot and then 18 A Over there. Q In the mine. A He still-- Q He's still there. A He's to be there 30 years Q Wow, he's A Yeah. Q Okay. going Kennecott. one Wait a Wonderful. pretty of the few that's still soon. there then. Now how did you tell minute. Benito that you were leaving? just told A I then tell me him that that he was I was leaving leaving but he know, they'd start crying and making a because he used to never fuss And then did. and I used 'don't cry because he's not leaving, he won't leave. Q Why? A I don't know. leave, 11m leaving I just and knew that he wouldn't. 11m not coming back any pack his clothes the to tell and kids, you the kids well, knew he wouldn't. And more. then I told Which him, the day I did. left 19 and I didn't go back. Q Did you file for divorce then? A Yes. Q So you A Yes. Q So was And I came And now I got my divorce. down to Salt got me a Q Was A No. Q So your A Oh, I worked at this there. see girls got job and--the oldest a son who got a was 18 and your ones. daughter 19? Yeah. was long and my in terms of ages you had your A He job Lake with ten children? she married? daughter got They only pay 90 real fussy. a job, your son motel. cents He wanted an hour. if he'd give me a job And which he that and Where? You got was my first job I got And he used to work everything spic there because I had this job. a me span and then job. like dogs. I didn't work She asked this friend of hers to was making tortillas, corn tortillas, _ 20 tacos and He says that a was pretty good. work two You he know, give part time. I don't know. was When just got they Q This A Manual. Q What is Manuals? A Hels a Q That's Manual A Um-hm. Q And that is the restaurant A No, they have who? nice guy. time job, they and my son, me needed a got--it And then his wife used And one. for Who did you work for? Mexican-- Torres, right? a plant no, they make tortillas also? that make tortillas. was too. He used to then after few years. or was to work there. the other him, you know. down. come dollar, you know, a for him and he out of there and went to work for him oh, for quite work, well, pay you too much but part there and work was real my kids if you want to went to work I So more. daughters working there me guarantee that 1111 little bit And then he used to had And he told enchiladas. I donlt that, and I 21 they make flour mainly there? Q And A No, he orders his tortillas from California. ones And tortillas and taco shells and tostadas. canned stuff, like canned stuff, you know, then chili, But he just makes he has all all this corn imported kinds of chili and all kind of dried herbs. it's like Q So A But she had a A grocery store. store. a store. She did have a Oh, I store see. and and plant a I used to work there. Q What did you do A I used to pack tortilla. machine and count by lem and is just Q Now how A I work Q Wow. a jobs wonderful long were Used to count them and and he I really was person. such like that. a I worked nice guy, I them off the and put thought just like for him too. you there? for Manual--I must have worked about 15. And you pick pack lem in that plastic bags many dozens, you know. so than any other my son mainly? lived where? And you a a tie on them lot better his son. His 22 A lived--well, kids. We think we it lived on couldn't afford We the place know, with you lived there in many little house. a 1 don't know how kids, so got in but we nothing else. Q Did--when did your A My daughter. or suitable a California Avenue. three bedroom with all a was couldn't find we daughters get married? got married the first? Or who oldest, she got married in--l think it The was in the fifties sixties, 1 don't remember. Q Did you do it A Oh, yes, she got and 1 don't know how husband him. not And married very did we long And only got two though. my other one she didn't son got married and that's the and he one a month. She it's get married. bought a one mailman. home. used to work at a big dinner, a we so Till it but she divorced she has. one She's And then this day she's not married but my in West Jordan and he fathered four at Kennecott. to see me they're all married. comes ance lived with her she to work either only know, you couldn't afford in white nd That's the working And my other ones, too, he bought He home He again. a Had pretty good. married, he's happily married. This got baby. a that's still divorce and he married times it. married because he didn't want got stuck with she the church. by like 1 don't know what, We worked everything. than your mother did? differently Jesse and he's furniture store finally got every-maybe got But Jesse's got He a a or a three other one, My home, real two a real boys he's nice home. nice home and he's upholstering but he didn't a 23 make enough money Q lid like to talk about that next time. to support his family. (SIDE 3) We about your talking were children. What did you say that you used to--how did you raise your children? A when Well, lived there I didn't go out I to go. hardly anyplace But I stayed wash and cleaned and he used to tell the day, tell you, but over we man, which a I to kept still did. it and was a I didn't most all myself We had friend of his. didn't open the door because I door he'll when he nice probably come and home said somebody came answer. said you don't tell nothing. I me he even nothing. Everybody the time. over came me came of knocked that to mad, he was know who So you played it knocked at Nope, jealous, is and couldn't I talked to you nobody. was get know, He used to take or our mainly. And that had come even through something friends came open the I told him door but I didn't he told didn't problems my door. on probably over the other bedroom and they left. with the kids I anybody like I time this guy one doing something. and during I didn't want any And and in come know If lid have scared. accuse lid go in the bedroom with the kids till Q Well I don't just didn't talk house and somebody even And then that guy went and told him that he--how looking wife. stuff. He was I had the time because all problems that me 'em and raised them and feed home and know--I didn't even because there wasn't anyplace me he had such a a lot of open the door his head so for to do with me. sometimes to the stayed in there 24 with the kids. A I Q Is that A Probably. one stayed but she helps comes me a and your children Now that is this have I why you one. back and they're stays A Right. Q Now, your children and you A Yes. Q So she' not any older than A Yeah. Q How did you mean After the oldest and think I this lady goes their way and the she's gone about three here and that he's been now or only four times like that, she your second husband. You A one close? lot. Q properly really married each She went and she are I new I about the same age. 11m 65, she's 50. am. things. things? learn those that I one--see learn to do to do were I mean like how did you learn to cook Where did you learn by myself but the those? cooking, used to tell you that had these girls some here of it I learned from in Salt Lake. 25 used to go tamales. there all the time and she used to make all over And I used to love to go was her name? over there-- Q What A I don't remember that Q Was A Yeah, she Q Her children then that were your age. A Yeah. I used to go over there and a So lot older than was. I guess and A I don't know. ·to bring it. women older one time I for She's I guess I learned from somebody else made. was her, you know. As long as An I ha it. knocks of life sometime and feed these just couldn't nobody. a that couple. they you know to the house and he used to tell get busy cook nothing an learn not to be afraid? How did you after was tortillas, Q to She long time. a you? up here and there whatever picked beans she It's been such name. this stuff like woman. women. take I did for it any more. a me couple well now you got of times and then told him 11m not If you want to--if she wants to do But 11m not. make you--cause he used making it, I said she can do 26 those women there for? he used to go along with Q Now what A Well, were another friend of there, you know, up She told said home. to hit Oh, I Q just something to point a And then I had the reason. try get me quite a time this one go. thing few times and my boys was me he no, it, you take it Maybe that's the so only grown up because he used boy would get in there-- defending were wanted to they He told that you snap out of that my went lady going then, I'll stay not where you can't anymore. So your children see. I'll go, well, I'm said I going. can It's I did. So that you long to I'm not if you go says And she told me--she lives here mine, If the boss says I okay. of them. let's go down--I don't know where she says me _______ go. one also, especially your you son. Yes, and my oldest daughter. A And then he'd turn on for I never did him. He used to he did. never go to a to take care him, I guess. accuse But once him of them. looking he start 'em all. And he used to tell yeah, who's hard, you now he used to take all can for working, we working go out and Especially don't know show, but he's you know, the kids. me look for And it's a wonder I o. you're est son, not he We never boyfriends a lasted all for me and that which he used to tell me, he says, no, my No, you're not why he always had it in for boyfriends going to look for boyfriends with know. get in between. She works hard enough all day and she--and hitting my mother. touching her. used to They now left them. son your for you. is those years. We used big said whole bunch of kids. When I let's and oh, It was stop and 27 think now, Q oh my gosh, 23 years, oh gosh, 22. Yeah, 22 years. That is incredible. Okay. Let's stop here now.