Becky Wintrobe, Salt Lake City, Utah: an interview by Everett Cooley

Transcript (67 pages) of interview by Everett L. Cooley with Becky Wintrobe, widow of University of Utah internal medicine professor Maxwell M. Wintrobe, on August 14 and 20, 1990. This interview is no. 252 in the Everett L. Cooley Oral History Project, and tape nos. U-1241, U-1242, and U-1243

Mrs. Wintrobe (b. 1905) recalls her childhood in Canada as well as her schooling through college and her marriage to Dr. Maxwell M. Wintrobe; moving to Utah and his work at the University of Utah medical school. Interviewer: Everett Cooley

Interview No. BECKY WINTROBE 759 252 BECKY Salt An WINTROBE Lake City, Interview Everett Everett L. Cooley Oral Interviews Nos. 14-20, Marriott Lake History toRU=1243 1 & 2 1990 Library University Salt By Cooley IFapedNostU=12418 August Utah of City, Utah Utah Project e UNIVERSITY O unveRsIy e UTAH EVERETT L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION willingly 199t to scholarly contribute the my Library testimony of the recorded University on of _. l’,"fi-u/{’ Utah — to i ¢ - Date I e T be {2/?0 / used for purposes. A Open e and Usable usable with after the my following review. restrictions: A il RN ] Bou by T o) vinGele (Moo w7 ) Interviewee é Interviewer Table Auqust Tape 14, Contents 1990 #1: HeriChillldheod@ale Graduatilen Exrem clieh Dildgnestiic¥Clsinuie® New ‘OEleansild Bailitimeme Jai N Tape o e . wars RSt o0 o e o -f Jags, b S5 Y l NewsMedicalifiSchool e s . .« o naie oan o, higel s, . Semeeii. ea Masi hdidgic S Ry Sebil e S e Soiia . o ooy o o .o b #2: Utaht Secialilisfeand@rhei Grandchitlidrenii® S858 and Wy « ST International o o RIS riDaughter -WEEs o i e, o o Recognition s e SRR TRl ST B P . o e @ . #3: Personaiipinterests SNOtSSHEN Shs . ERRAar VYR l SWlL 80 o SERCEEG SRS o T vaite (Rt SN mee R SRR sl . v . Accepktanceland®RecognitiontinMuitah Final o wall cand. SUpPoOLEtanANOPPeSHit Hon S Tape o0 Marriage NG Do, R Eilrst¥Reactilonsifto Max o MW, SOIETR oRUEa eSS Buillding#a cl (CollllegeMand The WhyStE of RE T THE DATE IS TUESDAY, AUGUST 14, 1990. WE ARE RECORDING AN INTERVIEW WITH MRS. MAXWELL M. WINTROBE (BECKY). SHE IS THE WIFE OF THE IATE DR. WINTROBE, WORLD-RENOWNED HEMATOLOGIST AND A DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR OF INTERNAL MEDICINE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH. HE HAS A B.S. IN SCIENCE, A PH.D, AND HE HAS A WHOLE STRING OF THEM BEHIND HIS NAME. HE IS THE AUTHOR OF SEVERAL TEXTBOOKS, WITH ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS, I GUESS BEING CLINICAL HEMATOLOGY, WHICH BY 1985 HAD BEEN THROUGH EIGHT EDITIONS. EVERETT COOLEY IS THE INTERVIEWER. WE ARE RECORDING IN THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY. [THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM. TAPE #1.)] EC: Today, us Mrs. about on. yourself. Tell when Wintrobe, us you let's We will something were born, begin come by to having your you husband of your background, and tell us tell later where something of and your family. BW: I was L, born in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, on November IS0, EC: You are BW: My father had We never were rich, we were felt doing that very a well. very small but clothing on the poor. We store. other had hand a we never rather happy childhood. EC: How BW: I large was was the your family? oldest, I younger, and a and the youngest then after I was. father took whatnot so brother During over that had the we a who sister sister was who three was time, dishwashing, the could study. years born examination We was a younger, sixteen my years mother tidying used year to up, listen and and to MRS. M.M. (BECKY) them sing Be? Now, you BW: Yes, I EC: What WINTROBE together. went went to to was #1 I always the the public public Winnipeg remember that. schools, did you? schools. 1like at the time, was it very provincial? BW: Yes, but and music. not on let the I me heard go president I was was called "the Barrymore even ECS BW: Now, very good. gods" way many of what opera about in in No, especially. my also by was spoke spoke major the in My was that many other We up would he was so antisemitic put his always sat actors and also of The what We a down. themSs in top. example; foot musicians alilgof great for because great the theatre father ol at the he of saw was Ethel actresses, the original school, did you pursue music and history, and school? father family lot company. theatre not a Heink. caniGERsth inlk Bernhardt, Cante had Paderewski time very and Sarah Doyly i we which one heard thatiperilod . theatre hear Poland, That Otherwise, hand Schumann to of country. other a too. some name So of was I interested took German, great German. I deal We and of had Professor 2 a history, my best German, marvelous Heinzelman. we in and because friend's both German my family decided to professor MRS. M.M. (BECKY) EIESS Now, was BW: I already am this were the War. We was from records of were in where How so University I can't was been born in 1905, German after the Professor German letter was of culture. He would he the in to bring pictures that world around me when we later dinner in been. him in feel years have who only bring the having thanking years would really Many supposed many not we World Heinzelman, us I were First educated interested we for the the I café wrote what he my had ago. University at that time, the Manitoba? remember all Having Heinzelman. was 1large College? composers, being long me in furniture. Dr. a this pupils. in German Faust taught BW: also Leipsig, teacher in or Schwartzwald, of from was college. five Bedermeir came school, class the but #1 high in were beginning E@: in first German, of WINTROBE downtown, exactly, but it was whereas now it is small, way out and in it the countey: EE: Now, you spoke community BW: No. EE I spent before notices in some the were about German; Winnipeg time War. at out It the was there a small time? of Toronto in Kitchener, was named New Berlin. published in 3 German both English and right Public German. MRS. M.M. (BECKY) There was WINTROBE a large the War, they BW: Oh, they did? ECY I was just similar BW: Oh, the name if to in there. Then with had that Kitchener. Winnipeg you community? population and England, Ukraine, those community the wondering The Scotland German changed large no. #1 but people. there Now grandchildren a I of consisted great was important citizens Was there a in had synagogue? large quite hear those many that of from from Lithuania a separation the children immigrants the people have and between and become the very community. Jewish population? Yest IHEGE You BW: Yes. EC: But no a schools anything BW: No, My EES I where outside don't parents Something of think would you went the that go special training or synagogue? I for for ever the 1like your there is denying, the fact went to the synagogue. holidays. husband's parents that he denied in described. BW: Yes, Utah, HES too active. At the no that University we did 4 as are you we have Jewish. never Still participate we in are not extra- MRS. M.M. (BECKY) WINTROBE curricular activities; theatricals, BW: I did Dr. out get meet for the wife at to to They all been a into medicine. Now, you BW: Iigot EE@: With BW: I a in We plays, actress. as a to the Deep your But read I down I interest afternoon, his cake poetry, really never I really a that I to could be. have wanted German; we had wanted that and and predicted in with used We time I we chocolate which at small, often, Saturday Heinzelman that was quite German. actress, indicated to used in I interested. wonderful Mrs. thought this was every plays great great active Because refer us time. be I I drink. _would you play. house read wonderful pursue whom give something used one part. his would were anything? Heinzelman, to EC: or try didn't #1 to did go you degree? arB.A. a minor think think that of important name? I in I my history had two in see chance? majors. history figure can per At professor, Canadian the moment who education. his face but I fill this in when can't is I can't rather an What is his think of his name. EC: You to can probably review this; it will come 5 to you. you have a chance MRS. M.M. (BECKY) BW: Where? (laughter) EC: I how know those they come seek employment, college BW: WINTROBE My back. learning I to very EC:S BW: very of a paper, a no was college the or a job at on the job, After and degree then did consequence you of and nice 1immediately a lawyer's but that, Winnipeg doing and the I your after office. didn't I I stick immediately Free Press. a unimportant few position intention teaching anything No, I in that My it atmosphere to first of days. I the I I was to it got a Jjob was things. was was did was you that not too pleasant. Women me. in on get you could Also, I almost in up didn't teach. registered dissuaded long to You so graduated family following married January. had Max this wanted be of position? like never graduated. How what disappear, It SETNE-URR AT, going E@: or the a for in type was had but your contests You or with got at running SISk Now 1long. position big sometimes training, graduated, It names training? —college for #1 and I didn't go in at 6 the was he thought newspaper? pedagogy that I was after married for department Perhaps, degrees teach? immediately enough. work your knew June, the your Jjobs of I the those medicine, one doctor MRS. M.M. (BECKY) BW: Well, it must December. E€: Now was BW: Yes, BE 2 I I my have was your he when June, the at that five or six from a he got July, time and to first. in Medical years School? older than university into July medical at I. the age He was school. young. Didn't he ECs Oh, thought I been graduate school Not there, not all, very So, I may was it they said have could he been at "They devote may when mistaken. have he The was medical all? good They no I entered were were said, not twenty-one. well-known there he nineteen? that teachers. and that was teachers good noticed he thought the professors, he I Well, at when that mistaken. sixteen. I was from January graduated BW: BW: been husband twenty-one very #1 married husband noticed of WINTROBE clinicians, were all but clinical full-time faculty. had practice." their too much time to their teaching. EE: And research BW: Yes. When Bell Fellowship. had could been Max just anemia. was graduated, been He practically was reproduce reproduced. Gordon he the did 7 received the as pernicious He of? Bell discovered granted unheard that was a a first former cure dean. for to anemia. still for a year. Liver pernicious scholarship It Gordon see if he hasn't MRS. M.M. (BECKY) EE: Then at the went to John BW: No, he EC: Oh, Tulane BW: He One When job he Tulane as a produce time he was but with the instructor marvelous BW: He interested was he Well, talk family when was it like? No, we were Tulane you ath Hudson I going was physician. Dean the of the position School. That him. research. at a i Tulanel about 1life, were you did living evidently coulidniteNaffordntol States. medical ithat school the to did “his work. more your in Bass, got of letter a Medical for am One as He anemia, the what Co. C.C. being Ttaswash research of in near "Oh, answered. the United anyway." Dr. interested fundamental Something when hundreds the Plumbing opportunity he let's going Crane at in though, am School Because BW: cold pernicious somewhere Tulane, EC: E€: this writing positions I to fearniimore SR was addressed the wrote was is see. for Medical an was to same there, a trying I busy dislike do year, Tulane. applying I for that first, letter Bay. to to the letters of Hopkins? very at #1 termination went was and WINTROBE planned have! 8 a for you in the present proceed New Orleans, parenthood family. to So our time. have or what people. first a We child M.M. (BECKY) was born WINTROBE nine Baltimore. We we know didn't #1 years after didn't if we were married, believe in having would be able to your example we in children when raise them properly. EE BW: Oh, if other we wouldn't In Utah two us doing talk out the BW: the nine most to me to Baltimore, lab and learn he was was very go in I Something like of laboratory That is worked right. clinic being all. I was was most any parts Barbara to started have the husband at the time was and would no I he go of his I ear and training. that and I in soon no talk I go into work. remember with one scientific morning I would in suggested long the For the I then. on a just Samuels, Before of was would learn particular he recognized a pay. she did the same sort work. interesting. part it because there learning So had in. Iimpressed thing, I every involved Utah. It something monocyte. all this. today, in research, got what My important about here world. years. we would from the because We follow problems other, When EE: would throughout for his and his have and of people I offered had job. The $25.00 a world, complete 9 was and no a job experience Diagnostic patient they physical at did a at Clinic might come come from examination. It MRS. M.M. (BECKY) included WINTROBE everything psychiatric etc. and would did etc. send Tuesday and leper for the a white man years and week. come poor to didn't my husband this: Once showed for a that that had he diagnosis. the the me was to a and time. My disease. come marvelous ask him such about on a leprosy, He was for often a many wondered not well- was very wa SN excitEn ney, a patient. experience. 1learned run there eSS across would worked Thusband and saw did. I day I had thalassemia, of and and I I twelve Friday I he lived they all people, puzzled, know who day was in medicine all case interested some was for worked was. at all I and Then this reaction recognized for did job. I studies, physician. man's Another therefore, We Brazil had I about diagnosis from the him X-rays, $25.00. wonderful stairs tell of, referring morning, met of final It I was the Whenever flights or cost years. Wednesday think gynecological part-time cases. this what a morning. about could to twelve was wonderful six total report for It but The the this Saturday you consultations, years. up #1 my I learned husband's research. EE: Then you could converse stories. 10 when he came home with his MRS. M.M. BW: Our (BECKY) WINTROBE conversations very unusual BW: I suspect that all No, because we all over So you BW: Twelve EE: You the dinner fascinating, for encountered EE: the leprosy, conversations E@: at and parasites, #1 etc. table were intestinal It really bacteria, was very there that exciting me. you met over people the would be you later world. meeting mostly medical people world. pursued this for some time? years. were also taking care of a family we at the same were married nine get, I time? BW: Our daughter years, job. Clara lived who born help part-time a was We after very had a with easy to wonderful us. We girl probably had by the paid her only name a of $12.00 week. EES Did BW: We BEEs and was you only had a came, a eight in Oh dear. have child little a in child? Baltimore boy, motor Well, one but he and was in Salt killed You believed IEE: Exactly. in at the when we age of is my accident. I have two children, family. BW: Lake planned 5 parenthood too? and that MRS. M.M. BW: Oh, I E€? Oh, go ahead, all of your I (BECKY) have was great BW: so you can just the was involved that my the to a be a bit about Oh, was a but on the EC What about the BW: Oh, Baltimore JHEE You were theatricals We But to didn't Max have great medical field he hear them. at Johns were there that was your only important time. an work and He was surrounded physicians, and he from them. learned Among his peers in my Dr. Jiarchoe! has talked interview pattern. with We remained our it nine-to-five was it a to get so life friends there in him. had for a a few many very years, friendship. Baltimore? wonderful. into New York occasionally for on? either beginning New and the definite was and was Boston, at cultural able exciting, most EhT nks thaty very whole about being although the that who to me friendship. MR little tell anxious 1like the clinician IEsEhatt S Elght2d friends in doing nine-to-five it it and in? country's great are husband, Hopkins ahead was Was on research at go it time. going among much. we what was good BW: out instructor, was EEC: cut things think #1 experiences, at husband I to wondering Hopkins BW: WINTROBE York, the to and 52 money get a other or the great time many cities. We for that. invitations could then MRS. M.M. (BECKY) WINTROBE do some catching BEE: To read papers BW: To read papers, the Plaza, very we good to own. I went back all do of I Now comparing BW: I you BW: it the then we for to We a be we week. I went took the on our Utah and hungry for to I at to go was plays, up they would came I put taken first ten Sunday, were Pierre, would and York we very going to your life was to should 1like make me went in the to the matinees, little bit about would you ask Musser, you This more it Orleans his whose Max. didn't New take 153 very Baltimore, the transitions job. of did a long C.C. we who very than Dr. Dr. When Medicine was think, "What with Orleans. first father I care Baltimore. Professor famous, at and to about was the Pennsylvania, But New went Dr. here?" in question, you Max. askance the when tell New exciting. Orleans, hired looked a New Bass physician, talk in let from at We when on Well, there us. went was just had of up thing? your-- that it put of up. compare what committees. went E€ to head I caught was to New and I sort remember evening, EE: this concerts, to Orleans, and were this, think up. care theatre, #1 the Bass for him got came famous son bring to was, me find M.M. (BECKY) WINTROBE #1 out. Max Musser had was asked Hematology. Max would have to of course, realized long the very was work, good he his Was he the Encyclopedia? Not only given to share Max the job of the like to a doing the entire job. that Max got into how proper Max do of him. because this? Max, opportunity. Musser was would doing writing, a and Hematology. credit credit, Dr. with work, wonderful realized is writing. Encyclopedia was Clinical proper Tice deal Would for this This how the good and job. wrote a busy. he facility Max do was a revise asked himself check BW: He to he Before EC: developed for but what he was he was given doing all in of the sponge off but was money. EEs Unlike of BW: I some their think IS that ol the i life Tulane. Dr. kind very We money were community. EE: Did like BW: Very New may who have Musser to happy medical you professors sort of juniors. exceedingly our senior us as and and very did accepted. Orleans much. 14 life? all We been $800, Mrs. it Musser were generous. They the people other became part of made at the MRS. M.M. ECh Certainly I BW: (BECKY) am So their We think about those places lunch, there. a was which go to I then cost But very plays. and do elements I extreme doctor, We did not Tulane pay that that did we many, park. have do was nor were we used and We he rent, did tennis, got $1,800 our we very went never say Nor of used to go afford. of course, but aware did and of you you see the bad when you Smith, and all that were Orleans? the of one making to eat. to I was faculty, you got but segregation Were have story the I had played could Antoine's. I thing there, in that? New we as $1,500. to public far from he weren't We 1living and of a were had the isolated violent Well, we they ever men that One to cents, Well, things were somewhat in in of was we go Max 50 as on. to it and many so group said $1,500. $50.00, you you a that unequaled, that extravagances. canoeing were time Max swimming When and when say are afford concerts. go such only was but for to ECE the which was there BW: couldn't earning time Antoine's (laughter) year, #1 restaurants concerned, sorry. to EE: WINTROBE a record just story of Smith, Mary George. that telling Mrs. earlier. me that. 15 about, This so is we the didn't one that record M.M. (BECKY) BW: So do EC: Sure, let's BW: Well, we had you no help BW: I want of so for make a knew where a ONE] number heard fromZ " e said, E€s Because the BW: Yes, said, I went EC? It BW: That is not I see come But in out my of and of to laundress to for they to the said to I four corners didn't went know I and to was they grocery me, her. street her. Number these saw town one find we a had who she store, my are you "Where Y canada." He was white? "Canada? said, Mary proper right. also sort. little looking corner of got grocer said, "Yes." went Smith, we would how want three. each grocer he to was the going try two, Mrs. were the to that who or I days week. didn't so went When stop, I I In of fourth I of saw, we on one, all. and we time trip, store. at what lived corner woman SIDE weekend. she a [END One street. was had OF those anything a about another never I or In once special grocery money. laundry segregation. Biloxi it? little machines my talking tell it. cheap, up #1 to very washing pick am me have had was and WINTROBE Do "She is you mean right Mary Smith?" over there." black person. So Smith. to Here put in a Utah, 16 Mrs. to they a don't put a Mrs. to M.M. an (BECKY) older little WINTROBE person. the were one course, home, He BW: Yes, with were very if never must have been he other was a people, little step a but but back streets E€: I didn't BW: Oh? Yes, EC: Now it BW: Is E€C: Uh-huh. BW: I it they has BW: They that was one been was was the were faculty friendly. New invite a house He negro a never discussed was was go to. they had We of said to to your Southerner. would Mardi Gras we again." then, they Once Orleans. picture. your members on this have with been a Gras, and Canal Street, the colored two Mardi Mardi of Gras Gras. two. integrated. haven't Oh, had to in Mardi there that integrated it big used realize were that there the always We the this you think Then was we at native I here which we into native. kinder. on whom ever course EC: case, of segregation you will which any one shocked I way In about about "Well, E€: was department talking us, (laughter) shocker. Another in #1 now? since. more always long That was We used fun. cut lengthwise interesting, to in buy a and in watermelon quarters. way. probably eighteen 15/ inches long, and we would a EES M.M. (BECKY) eat, get Was BW: dirty, the where If they the fun If didn't E€s I there know, to Okay, and BW: now you what Well, we Sheuld I E€: Surely. BW: When checked at that time, Dixieland? of the it. time. young My We certainly husband never people Preservation go wouldn't we have was had time into Hall, long list, the these either taken the She looked Dr. at "Yes." him at came Hopkins, him and and of the Hopkins. said to and Medicine speak to his whatnot. She said, "Oh yes, I you will find something she pulled you have any My in, that do of he came a 18 to Department quarters think She different socially Longcope just handed your sStory? 1live?" I were Orleans? 1living might what considerably accepted office "We and they arrived about we said, a Longcope. where Baltimore, New not you said, there." in husband Dr. to Were had tell into husband he at moved were secretary she existence aware a we then? you my under old time. go. experiences from the that was wonderful in hard things a Hall wasn't terribly days. have perpetuate was, working time and #1 Preservation it for WINTROBE have sheet with said, "Are you Jewish?" paper out of the addresses. his idea a Then And hands MRS. M.M. (BECKY) and said, another sheet year was Well, we were came our BW: "This What we E€ you this same No, at that the of out no be must you," and gave him accepted. '28, have to '29, been '30. 1930. Well, That was Baltimore. the so was Max there community, is was one was he in of did Negro was can't accept that he you find deal. get the entire the renowned Harvard a Negro. for When to work Max had to a Max, write a publications picture head and Canada. while to dean time. Schools summer. The 19 short point come. few Daniel Medical the with man, and wrote know Hopkins Jewish U.S.A. one you we at very only from that." I and a where Did other for him lived teacher one At applying couldn't Jewish first with we bigotry. picture. work was no was the the and was pediatrics someone come because full-time medicine Hopkins, that bigotry, in that great for 1928, into He country? out it There the could in time? this Well, would welcome only And at '43, and was Eventually prof. not bigotry? Shelling. BW: in accepted, was we married moved there Max is that? here When #1 sheet where reception were ECT WINTROBE ask It heard he and from was if he turned that said, tell has he in the a "We man changed Hopkins-- a MRS. M.M. (BECKY) WINTROBE some of doctors the the doorways changed a a or very whether So, he BW: No, from So was at that No, BEE: SuEsilde¥of BW: Well, he do Did I So was from 1933 to must he was to But at you has you that can no enter picture whether when not. are time imagine one it what asked if '43? have been, because that in '43 he Hopkins, have completely were there 1is here a a faculty he have a full-time. little great I I was a in welcoming to that get at going told in those they did days. have all? only it. committee for to Syeulde? What like about people fdid daughter. club remember ever Swhat reader women's involved was. that wasn't had was you there think I I a did elsewhere? time myself? and there John yvourtweorkfinSthatWcllinich they think at full-time, with don't E€: was The to So or it time by here, BW: as Black. Utah assignment BW: EEk staff. both are permitted here. teaching I the Jewish there 1930, not picture. change were were on you prominent we EES E€: now whether wonderful came who considerably, Jewish was are #1 once. I wives 1like out and come participate. BW: It Dr. was quite Halsey different, Barker's home 20 but to I remember a meeting that which I went I to think MRS. M.M. (BECKY) was of the didn't faculty know, important. EC: You We so #1 wives. and I made indicated five, BW: WINTROBE Of didn't other that socially friendship you didn't the University? Except with the George the at Harvard. editors field was of they were not only prejudiced Negroes, you outsiders but didn't it belong to people now not very because but become But in of ours, Jews and If went to things So the was city. and belong. of His Baltimore socialite of one Medicine. against for these Professor society didn't society. I nine-to- with Btheinpeortant: us, wasn't friends time very you for to too, of only high him were a It from became Baltimore stoltdlil was Internal that and time. They was attended, segregation are at also cetilfllions®™and those of endocrinology. but He invited Principles young associate Thorns. Max was there. the from I have friends people Medicine course ‘Ehat it was Thorns who Baltimore they were not. ECs It is heavily BW: I suppose Calvert, Catholtich il particulary was wife. Catholic, think. Baltimore, the "I very nice We would and be very invited 2 it of Baltimore, was ‘think the" Catholics were dean, Dr. founder den't socialites. is The kind to there, us, not? Alan and so occasionally. Chesney, was his MRS. M.M. E€: So BW: And EC: And (BECKY) here is in your was Hopkins. 1943? husband doing building a Why in the was a little It medical school, very well in research. great world and reputation did he school it was come that just at to had Johns Utah a two converting in year to a four program. BW: Oh, I BEE: Why did BW: Because E€: Isithakteright? BW: His know that he wife wife Hopkins. him no He he the At fine, well-known time hematology famous it the here, is like part no of the Max Did my husband letter came I to said there, 22 him, because you the after some very When they often there. division a Utah "Let's in group replacing get from at very the gastroenterology, further staff. was of he were discrimination head that work the there on problems felt research there, appointed physician. position be I advancing the were was and When because of all not we come. clinicians There was to come, do hematological consulted. him to would five. He well. opportunity could but had very urged urged have world, reason come? his would what #1 teaching. he year WINTROBE very promotion? No. regarding the go are a of out not and going see to MRS. M.M. (BECKY) get EC? very Had far at been Utah like husband, Phil or breught taken he EE€: You weren't BW: No, we the was and stones was thinki, he that for new a people who were in in was invited. club for dinner as the back EE: Ohwou, BW: I and didn't wasn't told come, invited, about for so ithe I invitation, we went at W.P.A. on Utah. the book 23 and was at aill that He was and The the thought it sat the seemed it ! and after the bricks He felt school. So department. he I "went said, His said te he to Utah), "Let's go." visit? come. the men that remote. So £irst, to a county new school. made of didn't formal while. medical head East me He Callister immediately hamasTatiisiigotoutsanddosit came a always make opportunities net Max hospital, not job was Cyril hospital husband the first. to quite did offered your time. teaching My and mountains. skiers over. the at a someone someone here So see promised War Max. country the or came suggested skiers was I+ the weren't hospital that Hopkins interview could between it? he to contact Callister was and out were Cyril "upisindiChinai.® should where personal from prejudiced, he a what Price #1 Hopkins." there from BW: WINTROBE When library he and got the looked M.M. (BECKY) EC: Utah, BW: We a WINTROBE Guide had to The hardly brought up #1 State. ever (laughter) heard of Utah, in Canada. I movie "Brigham Young," and that heard of and the Brigham Mormons. We The got think this the W.P.A. about ten and Max a about work of famous on League Behind United States. Bowman pointed out coast, between There of there was pointed marvelous no out find to of his and a Dr. He had here. that a we heard of to much. Utah, We it the time so I passed would little he done and had be scared Max that Canada and Mexico, Southern only U.C.L.A., that to 24 and if he build He a of about two no went went Bowman, who was a deal of up of great cutting map the the Dr. and U.S.C. and the medical other of offer. Denver think to the see between I about to large California) the bit the a to opportunity us Isaiah him him came forth. told were quite little so Nations desk Max we we was out Hopkins, Europe. Oregon, man geographer. the University to us when see first time were come. Callister, president very didn't went first we did the thought one we was followed Everyone Only he then and people that impress book, adventure. people, didn't around. West, the movie the book great Young think because the (The U. schools. schools. Utah, something. He of he had said, He a MRS. M.M. WES (BECKY) Ehinki turn this down. don't to going on people for they this out will find think that Next, Max important at EE: Gil BW: G him. War There in were they couldn't to do in he they said, and know the take to Dr. see was Harvard at All this will the with Cyril you, but and He I go." York. was Dr. they soon. New and going Medical over in Callister. pointed the education. him. from opportunity Rockefeller medical Max Max needed spare be Gregg units they at need was effort. kept him Alan in knew you war was they War should figure and there. he needed "I the was Bowman--that he you medical and job help two because went not but '43. units, way he work, the you that the '42. join a a hard to Dr. that think to Bowman think during because School. of work, to had overseas hard should seriously." teaching, to be you Hopkins not When been '40 from asked this that to afraid was in out going be this #1 the™job is consider Now sent s It seem should was WINTROBE a very Gregg knew I had him. I Dr.-- Richards? R chardsi®that « is™right. He thought and he also why we came, that urged I Max urged it to him 25 was T a accept to go, think wonderful the Dr. E£hat he" knew opportunity, offer. Bowman So that's urged M.M. (BECKY) him an EC: to WINTROBE go, and Dr. Now, in talking came he was could of urged Dr. Jarcho, to given supplement Utah, him or and same with the Veteran's who got to go. It was EsEEhat BW: Yes, Hospital at the he University Veteran's your Could he own that the Did opportunity? his so with University. the in first person school for to he husband affiliate My the husband department Hospital in affiliate teaching. his Veterans who was was by now country with the would not not full- included in teaching. sighE? this was medicine, you practice Because have research income when Administration? medical university EC: of the The and indicated could position the was anyone time. the kind a he he meager husband Veterans accept work, accept the my choice, his have No, a clinical Administration EC: Gregg opportunity. practice, BW: #1 in the incidental a very firm couldn't town and others be had teaching, do policy. clinical considered been mostly wasn't that It was work full-time and teach and full-time. downtown the way and it doing was up here? BW: Well, the they were full-time part-time system at 26 teachers. all and They didn't got out of like the MRS. M.M. (BECKY) medical against only Gil WINTROBE school the ones immediately. medical who were Richards, two Marshall, and part-time head #1 school was people, Viko. of for the [END Fuller They getting started it were of and Bailey department. OF TAPE] 2 were very much here. The Fuller Bailey and course Callister, at that time was a THIS IS SIDE ONE, TAPE TWO WITH MRS. MAXWELL M. WINTROBE (BECKY). THE DATE IS MONDAY, AUGUST 20, 1990. SHE IS TALKING TO US ABOUT HER EXPERIENCES HERE IN UTAH AND THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF HER HUSBAND. THE INTERVIEWER IS EVERETT COQOLEY SN ITHESHESESSSRPARTSNORS THE SEVERETT L. COOLEY" ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM] INTERVIEW 2, TAPE 2. WE ARE RECORDING IN THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY. EC: Let's pick just came many of their up where to my the interviews desert centers I here the to off the and week. Utah in talked their from East last of have and wilderness of reaction left University reception this we to of of so about coming and to cultural What Utah had In people these elsewhere. University 1943. reaction some You was your Salt Lake here from ESisey2 BW: We drove across Baltimore, know which National that we the Then we the sight dropped of "I upheaval the passed husband out of a said, here." the I oh, it the that saying "Shall went we on the I I was to what feet beautiful. a to (laughter) said, "No, have by my geological National may my terrified had Dinosaur place saying yesterday." I Colorado bathing kept they've stop?" been beautiful absolutely basin. didn't having at most was country. before really remembered the sign We was to day We country, down think come overnight seen. streams, husband, we which ever cold the stopped Park, to interesting. about We had country was anything Canadians. in the Then Park. lets been My get Heber, MRS. MAXWELL it M. was WINTROBE lunch first (BECKY) time, place we and we stopped stopped at came from Baltimore, which They sent us the flies were thick "Polio Raging us. I So "Mother, much washed what the is in my S.L.C. we is a of gastronomic newspaper we looked had I my in; at arrived at a gas hair, and said, old "Oh, we the with daughter said, in We heaven. six-year and matter?" So a The food. walked teary, eye." out food. we We get ran some street, Utah." to my face, Prices then to the had for I said, got Utah too with a station where I we down wife. In the in started pepper teary across and #2 we combed where found Utah, stopped we our though my stayed own I for lodging. had been went a couple That was the one to of our to nights, entrance urge him to come. The House. The that good Mormon he they was physicians but the the could orderly the Did back county very prevail end much were hand to come the like a medieval Pest the hospital as a their patrons. If a using out would on were business that was commissioners plum fired, HE: hospital to job the in charge of was run the throughout hospital? 29 by the work next the drunk and day was because medical work, commissioners. residency there in MRS. MAXWELL BW: No. M. The WINTROBE doctors committee was whatsoever commission. most who really The patients the although over were to satisfied the ECHE That are as to citizen's any problems case case up to the with the consisted in the of some city. The because complaints getting husband them from the from the mere people them. mostly part indigents, admitted. Of were they patients from you immediately to build me, I many patient new 30 care. county) It at was a patients from else remember place. described a country. or Arizona seemed They came soon who to be because acquired a hospital. horrible as reputation, the one (the teaching bad his Everyone hospital a sent the medical surprise was of only their a being of hospital. be as was because him, doesn't It getting to University once. the committee were country with reputation take something my terrible refused had their citizens not western sent a time? the the they that immediately, there Yes, really then were meant at when citizen's were not, least could They much present changed professors. all Now prominent commissioners BW: so would The picture EC: complained formed. which the #2 they committee of (BECKY) If them, facility? going there those conditions were efforts only made MRS. MAXWELL M. Bw: No, was during promised a it were EC: WINTROBE over. (BECKY) the new war was the '60s Nej L think®that I think War, but hospital, However, before #2 the I new St the physicians immediately think that hospital iwas new they was builtidin after waited the until built. the 150s,. the late 150s? BW: No, sure. But new they mortar working What about in Dr. Olpin, It it I who Dr. Cowles, know, but been almost never '65, but twenty it was am years thought but I for that the not a bricks people who counted. support were to was wait hospital, the staff have husband a administration; his must to My made were and it had hospital. and EE: that of they improve the University, supportive things of your the husband there? Cowles-was he it left then? very soon after. Then Dr. Olpin came-EC: Enit “462 BW: Dr. Olpin, was a good as a whole. upper from the and However, campus at Medical president considerably, grew the interested the expense they of the thought other 31 in graduate resented because School's point the Medical programs. view University program the of Medical on the School School MRS. MAXWELL M. WINTROBE But amount the Medical from financed the from N.I.H. Research to Max EE Was of Did them, or was BW: There was E€: In fact, BW: one great my deal the here that that his he resented friends, prominent know the names went out EE€: Which is BW: Well, they away from able to from the country was strange felt their considerable well. downtown practicing have support School the of resentment. with was fact the role it, their was the he did. of all reasons reconciliation. of a interview of only was of sort and there is resentment? up one, the Medical mark think is grant in small school faculty Program of some I very The first socially true the of a The although in a Utah. there a the sources. also doctors? about grants jealously, this receives government. Grants in However, amount of many #2 School state because obtain given (BECKY) at When but felt of to be that they that the practiée. 32 that that we he first they some Castleton, he to against these told had made was came, tried he brought conciliating friends, way Ken about a great doctors enlist the people. not their school. They I really unpleasant. would feel Medical Oon the that School other way. would hand, take the MRS. MAXWELL M. Medical in School on them, They and was quite could not walk Now, you at had one with BW: Yes. EES Then BW: EE: to be some study. university a at the could doctors. time patient at not that the you Medical referred. and I guess this school, were teaching, their practice. When of the doctors change, year only during, interest this four was was main did the practice on was was it program? incidental, and non-existent? It was non-existent of them had Now, could the two-year private walked doctors rule become establishment the for and they just local to stringent who that the private the the them, time, that their a in particulary, campus to patients cases that refer #2 want wanted cases There School, (BECKY) didn't they wanted handle REE WINTROBE this a with private was your yeousisoontsichange prEoviinclal full-time practice, reaction your It the only to smind wasiisort of al None referrals. Salt " that people. Lake it City. ‘was frontier Did sort of kind' of community? BW: Well, got great made while to know deal some it the to very was our people, the good impression we realized university friends. 33 group. at first, that I when there think was that we a we MRS. MAXWELL EC: Were you Bw: Yes, very EC: Both in BW: Yes. M. WINTROBE well-received the Bailey, in medicine. his When then introduced interested we did the We died. If best friends. What about you were call social there he close this groups, you groups into that town and made They became and people not and 1long they the were day friends, you with job. until did of the came best is want people, newcomers and greeted home. Abravanels by professor in at was alive was didn't feel very can is the university intergrate Were was people us The became any help campus? make did. Lucy to to to people think Bailey us music. We any Dr. in newcomers. still came, They As town husband because friends. the He my effort I University? nineties. arms an the to who open after and introduction probably our socially? community Our quite #2 much. Dr.Fuller E€: (BECKY) that we were affiliate with society helped here to and on intergrade you? BW: Well, EC: Did BW: Yes, I there you at was with the Women's Faculty Club. participate? one very a was point busy. 1little boy they asked One, when who 34 was me I to be arrived later president, I killed was in but pregnant a motor MAXWELL M. WINTROBE accident. So that was exceedingly who when go to he for it an after my What in and hour I It you me. Secondly, was not I walked whatnot. to husband did and became considerably. EC: busy, meetings #2 hampered walked Cottonwood town (BECKY) wasn't died, do, When quite a attend a that to we I built became in so the of wife bridge or house in a to moved husband kind play meeting, I out the nuisance until 1live out my drive I to into pulled Donner active out Way, again. Holladay area per chance? Uh-huh. That is Where where do you ORENMISSRENH Oh we live now. live? ol Seventeenth BW: I iowise i Eiis S Thirety-Fi fEh S Southt Yand East. lived on Fifty-Eighth South and Twenty-Third East. BEE: BW: There is an that, were People and many was: the he you Club have he was country and was on writing; the he was in we asked 35 to idea he on didn't speak members how was Utah things. you of activity? faintest putting so were that teaching, extracurricular meetings, campus, participants didn't husband over Aztec We at lecturing the have medical time went one busy to time, my all map, for very a few but we MRS. MAXWELL M. had go to WINTROBE out appointment. didn't time for time for much for movies. was to ithat sisswhyeel no by would the On of have that. only liked a movies, thing extra we we have we when I had would would We say, always meetings, livingiini had to, that concert." no that didn't complainer--I of myself keep We occasion a didn'tWilkbike gone couldn't like instead concerts, he we things much movie went have as concerts. a #2 and About wasn't try would town, as time complain--I "Let's of So have (BECKY) the lived and country... closer to T the i EC: Now your BW: They EC: Oh, BW: Yes. went here on It was I wonderful they the schools? School. school recently from Everybody teachers and had a Connecticut, was were so which approachable to daughter reunion, from thrilled my they had California, and with the both reunion. the parents children. suspect though, K€ a coming and Stewart public campus. people on. attended the When The BW: to adored. so E€s children that living posed it out where you stherelsuntiil Susan was graduating from high Where did she high school? 36 for you did. Noraawendidnitmilivier attend problem 1little a U570 school. By: that Etime MAXWELL M. At High. East The or BW: best in WINTROBE school the I think she didn't High so there she ShelSwent what the city to was a Roland and she wanted she went did she attend? ¥ Maner " was accepted to ‘ind anxious to in that time, go Mount was disappointed. while couldn't, have accepted at letter saying her, get down said, "No, school?" She an owl too, all." Is that a I my was goggles, wouldn't strange she to at and where said I were father point. she didn't been a neax that really my and School. to you with close right™ bad, you because High up but there, Holyoke she business go East accepted, too lived Boston), ' a it better, We East got isn't lot to she would at Hall. So ™ Pine' She Hall When "Susan, I go went. not applied. to to School, ¥ to" was not Roland college Wellesley. She in want East BW: undoubtedly that to Then #2 state. No, E€? (BECKY) have reaction I been children have? EEs Yes, my BW: Shetliist grandson-- Walsbright 8 girl, 'so shel coulds have gone the same anywhere. EEs I have thing. your a You grandson have daughter to experiencing be study? 37 part of somewhat the group. What did MAXWELL BW: Oh, it go into she M. was just here. married until of She years. her where when home. worked they came in Once induced to Gradually, EC: Her BW: Yes, now you we back; the were divorced. an expressed in and exhibit an he upstairs opinion something of grandchildren? 38 this number years Francisco She and didn't children work at Quinney from at and of nine school. most of Physiology. thirteen is now happily on that a the not? She very she Dean were or twelve had age, three, is but three San Susan Department about lasted she let She physiologist, children physician, physiologist, involved he seven. in to school to was pass were or Manor, here. for children. while to a another her seven is they had it husband two went her was away for while seven then As come was to accepted graduated, She work was she well-known she Pine school they children to she wanted nursing London a to is marriage EC: with it he in from and before back her her the Then going three time lived really graduated graduation. he believe go year husband. she Seattle, to the continued she at chose #2 courses, After accepted She with (BECKY) general nursing. was was WINTROBE years, married and to married. boating your kind. Their What and so on, grandson is about your MAXWELL BW: Our M. WINTROBE grandchildren? Hall insisted She was the been University on a pitch in number whatever immediately got He took was School said, pictures." job at passed a to So man, it the He and the of let he of had David as a with would took first a aid or river boy, man a big in photography--and the a have and he in his Because this Grand Canyon. at Medical a little wrote, his They river. me write The evenings Timothy photography and to is Hall. Colorado license interested "David, Berkeley. dedicates get on charge had went university, photographs river student the show of your autobiography "David spare is grandfather Brown time his who of is a is a he first show, has Jjust away." EC: That is BW: Now, the the He to very in on Roland were. courses. David the we school trips to Roland 'in ' resuseitation, photographer. licensed he a beautiful Maack the At to than various seventeen. also Julian high take necessary of at gone go this father. help. age at river Wecourses' is the and and Wof of having children was to couple mother her he #2 not successful while their at Susan that more youngest, to (BECKY) U. wonderful. second of youngest Vermont boy, because 39 he Timothy, is very graduated interested from in MRS. MAXWELL the M. environment. through hard to WINTROBE college. all of take a working a on the had needed to BW: He is is the Paris were in in number really in he France He to six advised Louis by him was Louis, he didn't 1like he was job at Snowbird ski. year he counts I age wanted a because he is also of job, also an Wildlife Timmy eight at is think. of going cars has Dept. worked was parking This Utah Number on, and all he has he got it. a him number four are Stephen, number two, was his He with his he against place for found his St. Louis. he St. but him. 40 public schools because last work. topped he go Missouri. he were quarter it class. to thought When his When the to Louis, grandparents The parents written wanted in this, to His student mathematics that father. went top Washington the and with time. was or two ones. that decided of and had he the months helped University he straight order? physics then go so the he to that However, From that and classmates a fish brilliant divorced came on one years, to in three. for twenty river. is first decided pass job. say the for job a #2 playing, working always Which then free environmental EC: He reason get Fisheries was off The could He life, year Snowbird. he his (BECKY) the We that St. to St. right, he he an got had MRS. MAXWELL M. elective modern WINTROBE and took dance and Because here for the doing set out he later had him to but again working He think to he danced went going went into came back to very with In university. He a work, in dancing. He job. young Two weeks company which he didn't he quit. Two This job would Plaza at the Pompitoux, kind of why. like York. his get good So job. the New academic However, in he to the his dancing didn't Utah, to well know dance for what? In molecular Oh, my The oldest OF the SIDE three was and In 1like people the weeks take he was applied to ONE] years, He admitted. then has he just now graduated. biology. goodness. eleven disturbed the then a I he with. Columbia was and know. [END BW: in York with another Paris good neglecting New So so also friends I dance. well. wonderfully one and he is was for got dancing people, very years, he of later my three #2 modern did completely spite then up dancing meantime wasn't (BECKY) one, we when him ambitious a have his great boy had a parents deal. that 41 the little were So he problem divorced, is others not are. the We with. He and it student, hope in MAXWELL time M. that school that he off will One of you in the himself. on and He jobs himself has off been and together of all you the or and going to on. We hope keep up with on that the other have you seems have a mentioned indicated that you and have elsewhere bigotry order I community, where preponderance you I found hand, here experienced to sort that exist of a of one in a monolithic group over others? Utah people the discuss: the the No, that in religious is but heaven. not I always suppose very we closely associate with associated with Church. That always coming the bigotry I am and who come No, we were Professor never badgered I more all, from of felt to I on hear am somewhat the places Medicine we join. 42 that raised this welcome. that to was and other made me outside. although community, have surprises from myself, or #2 questions to community as and University some BW: find pull the acceptance EE: (BECKY) brothers. want BW: will here he his EC: WINTROBE it were in an people outsider the Mormon outside now. I surprises me that do I of from sensed a people not. suppose may that make excluded a if one comes difference. for that We reason MRS. MAXWELL EC: What about they have BW: Only M. your Susan. were Street heard this, were Cole, who wore and tell will be I am and her to then situation whenever right." He to Mrs. on "You and he tell to go for a we cookie." had 43 no I more he said, I "I said, on," we am sure that never Mrs. to get talk Mrs. to thought was. He said, shoveling don't know trouble. so you Perkins, he boys, it the Perkins, that like Perkins the Perkins see job the about Mrs. to me Dr. see came did to hat will go I my I little a but and it in share, put and to did to the Well, problem." better, it them my have going Perkins. back be little and ours liked time, me a go of spoke that see said, we who which friends they on boys unpleasant. and to 1lived "Jew," and situation. hat give invite was that on? we her, some at so several house will Evidently came you I the would our this am "and your he whatever, I and when call told came about this." We having put going about is then, all courage he someday hats would minister day complained think, Unitarians, Susan but I but their One family liked etc., was that "Yes, we good situation. hear had, They they prejudices one before. that neighborhood they who have some was rowdy. haven't #2 children, There rather about (BECKY) experienced Douglas we WINTROBE and the "Now, snow or always whether I MAXWELL EC: Well, from people think that or WINTROBE (BECKY) #2 High, many the East than BW: M. say with if we on High#¥Scheoll. EC: What world You find sent it we had like reputation, a children out out way. that right High a I tolerance to near Granite the School East and the problem. wife, living world-renowned, traveled coming University, more East no as the Street, "the there 1little lived Douglas students at a your you "iSeivat School was had since lived Stewart would you of associations you something, No, so oty you with a what had man was with it some a 1like? wonderful experiences. BW: My famous included husband me welcome EE: Yes. BW: I saw it three accepted. were was of think traveling. In in our our I his welcome longest It We was Utah, that book to how we you and he sort of absolutely were reading India. to we were see famous didn't the was assignment; wonderful learned husband, received world that months. I wonderful the think pictures think for I a everything. throughout marvelous. you in was get he how was quite there he was when the we same reception. EE€: Was this Although, primarily in reading because the 44 book of his he was publications? in personal MRS. MAXWELL M. WINTROBE contact with research with BW: Oh these yes, how was really his research. EC: We BW: Well, I which is EC: All BW: When to think right, interested He where the in in the devised it correspond his research asked me about talk about his research, given a few anemia, He these about the years. research. first firsts a did his to cure not Gordon his for name) is how to which had nor has succeed, This Bell he became to New knowing he asked called so Orleans apparatus (his had done Max to "anemia of available first some 1look the at job) work on into the South". Max the time was called the worthless. hematocrit. wide, one, haven't talk was Canada, that He let's went the absolutely some hematology. of problem You quite Musser, blood would of life. he all then Dr. found my has in he learn that. discovered. else would this; should pernicious been anyone of he put to we graduated, reproduce just come (he I unique. whatever, Fellowship when he? that part #2 something, shall quite going he or wouldn't and are people problem them, (BECKY) The is a a simple Wintrobe tube little Hematocrit completely 45 instrument is straight, known world- calibrated, MAXWELL and M. closed before. They were two little really BW: is To think before instrument plus what he could thought and of At time this need we were never This modern working been At it. it This brain This is why he had Hematology". 10 the of it cents 10 if a tube, cents. rich, been 1little we sold by instrument Well, were the was and we never millions the "open normal was, his great the work hematology. really out the of EEi has they "Classification No. sent logical out offered didn't It BW: was he achievements. Now made bottom. didn't know what they? No, EES He accepted Modern have hematocrit millions. did He starved, sesame" leak. but it? that The the hematology. of for, at husband's of hematocrits them leaked didn't my course been used someone "Father (laughter) hungry. BW: the they his companies had they and Well, the There what top useless. called never EC: the patented Yes. he at #2 bottom. know changed he (BECKY) the don't leaked only at I they to 1{el WINTROBE normals was the Anemia," was one Dbasis which to of Of this day has not changed. was this work done principally Tulane? 46 at Johns Hopkins? MRS. MAXWELL BW: At HE And it was BW: It was in M. WINTROBE under Dr. to Dr. who and writing career. BW: That right. EC: So Tulane BW: It was #is most most the world. EC: BW: had at him. an first Later he extraordinary When apparently turned important important. of quite to launched very work arrived In India flowers and his first to do the into job, known somewhere, met whatnot. also a development. became they was husband your was it him your in It His we royally. bouquets same really important. "almost" gotten odyssey, this was was himself little writing, had who department. the Musser department, Bass had his reading Musser. Musser's he addition Dr. Doctor what realized In #2 Tulane. wondered E€Y (BECKY) were with It was it throughout we us and met garlands, almost the elsewhere. Now how and so many under your They would have series a people here or where to you were to study them were Hopkins Johns welcomed husband? come who became series of these come had on students of of Indians, afterwards. our friends. Canadians, and 47 Some another At of one another time time time we had we we a might had series a MAXWELL of M. South applying EC: Now, WINTROBE (BECKY) Americans, etc. to I come read received, your conferences or how become BW: it he It was new In reading in this it what, what the same sort is right. BW: That EC: Was she BW: Oh, she was. Whipple, who she a some you attend mostly of all it spread and these for himself, can to honorarium, thing? by went in of a him conference. expenses the to NoETES paid. gospel, examinations, I England, patients. the and the think who was This B12, that it mashing would or was be something a Dr. liver and for anemia thét does thing. pioneer is in But worked plus you anemias. Liver was that were sort blood vitamin of trips, profitable anyone people you it odyssey, her when Was because from for grant participate invited of the and And out? of Vaughn, using EE: work profitable method Janet paid, consisted classification EE: expenses usually honorarium Utah, subsequent was conferences, The at always large to involved Usually was were him. invited all did first about husband with the this What There work about and Europe. and #2 with source of Vitamin Bl2. this? her the one work was based on first. your 48 husband in this? that of Dr. BW: She came were in EC very With these but it he was said, always "Yes, time and a us, it paid. have a to we wined can't pay afford all a funny lecture go along. I for éonditions? 49 I think the him take all my so wife Lederle For all (three Lederle traveled accommodations, went tour. I to travel will in along, without it. tell '43 that expenses my that South think daughter our army, to this, India we I about the us, think not would story, to for took but her, mine, expenses. When We pay in Department paid. paid to my for else. State husband of went This o working everything and royally, We didn't traveling doctor for it us welcome. approached were were My very went Co. was paid we I everything expenses Wartime Jjust treat arranged arranged and couldn't EC S We interested Lectureship. but they young were he here. more were to wonderful a but that America, my work around. afford expenses, So fares, traveled Fullbright a Pharmaceutical with to became you Indian government the months) you couldn't husband's along." the came She contacts as they under when never friends. world royally India but fields. Sometimes my Utah, great other dined BW: to #2 (BECKY) WINTROBE M. MAXWELL or me. I When '44, I MAXWELL BW: Yes, M. he WINTROBE traveled always say very he was spoiled (laughter) bit a wasting his time, I done much. gave (laughter) wash Wash on lengths washed So the to he put one sock in the a hands in put one them in every time pocket he And washed socks BW: We EC: Later is a were great really on honors, campus again, I nationally story, very wanted the ; his I am he a and in the say, "I am never did great a little he have I washing. over, into and great Boston. He morning wet. So coat and put his he never going without go those was socks, next that going of him. rain never all for soaking his and her without me years. story. fortunate. you distinctions the go were Then (laughter) That them other. again." EE: turn of a own sock pocket son would in one her I his and they would I landed up, I thought didn't He and without again. I (army). just that side, them on good we washed Well, hung Had 1lesson drying. socks, went on a was think a about he one don't him plane and this him. never other. Mats everything and he'd the his did for them a husband hard, do I on worked could think. Europe good we so #2 one--we He that to (BECKY) to talk that distinguished internationally, 50 about his had won he greatest professorships what were some here on given of the MAXWELL BW: M. WINTROBE heners? MM honorary degrees Not really was to neticed: Before 1long, else. don't think society that of these the I think think those Yes, I BW: That was think three months. period, always assignment were in Thomas a sick, was Hospital, I wish he or an book. in that. of this and in and period other his only made Greece. Then citizen a month. He taught and in in making Sometimes when were to here India at an first Hopkins. We Saint the rounds. help for Our at my for seminar? rounds. were 5 from full we husband Some instance. countries while lecturing any them. Panama for of degree honorary Fullbright teach for honorary named anything distinguished, his Wisconsin of his president. most detailed some clinician. my member Physicians, was was a in most of than become got He of Academy more was really from lectured Panama wonderful He him secretary him he are his Did was didn't remember indicated extended He they 1list pleased National mentioned Utah, can't he that all whole what the American countries. Chile--I you that from other Now are of he a name. think were of has pleased wonderful. Manitoba, in that societies Association ECS BW: member I medical I a section. I his many. become #2 that ' he" behind that Sciences. EC: (BECKY) He was friends get out. MAXWELL EC: I M. won't early it, it repeat I didn't a teacher. he As a up as teacher was teacher. He research and when we worshiped ¥Yes:. EE: His BW: Oh demands yes, to them to be the so so as you on; He his how was medical a For hematocrit doctors from Yale, their paper to his being a world would before, Some quite this you brightest on. work with his indicated that be students, of so those hard that were a that didn't 1little true? great? trying was young the rated students, after includes talking as he two that book. but what years about everybody. dedication and were from dedicated those, want off, by he and They were him, his his thing infinitum. was sixty taught his how colleagues, ad bit One is of about little odyssey. some A+ Levine. talked a reading This to a were turned rated and Always, perhaps he improved Wardlaw there teacher? fifty his his a we talked known teacher. finally Now, have when the reputation, rate him. in from #2 we recorded You instance, BW: to because pick his did is wonderful EC: you ask and Dr. (BECKY) training, know BW: WINTROBE they working got to older, do for. 52 for Does they them got and your to what appreciate he son-in-law wanted feel that way EC: Oh BW: Well, now? yes, he knew. What would was a be? Well, I think modern still being other day we it is chief for You but also that they achievement name one thing, of what hematology as they Utah he and for weeks. on as not that, I which noted. is Now the publication, about talked of financially about his his one most having invited wives Max Paul Medicine. Internal Tinsly invited editions. Harrison Max, who invited Beeson a Harvard, in fact became would go They always 53 away chose on was George Yale. and the It is the editor-in- was of Hopkins, and authors edition because with participated, book sold. Then two text perhaps Principles is editor. two respect. person establishing talking book. first little great greatest to was eighth Harrison's Harvard, had it were book copies called fairest his definitive used, successful Yes, the you that the hematology BW: If him, disciplinarian, great was for science. wrote million respect consider research? it He he you would a EE€: great said ever his BW: had he everyone EC: #2 (BECKY) WINTROBE M. MAXWELL Thorn of Here is Yale. Max 1leader. The planning wonderfui meetings places to Sicily, Tetons, the go, publisher interruptions, EC: Anatomy BW: Except that EES Yeah, but authers' number the in Nevertheless, copies BW: Oh running. still remarkable that. as known is i1t Sbut different and record, a million sold. called expenses and don't think received he expenses we fees other many too the Well, always were wherever expenses I what things. these traveling our paid they paid, Our did. never we is about know to on money made we if and That book. wanted You cake. our wonderful a is it and yes, no, a is that Gray's with publishers on,"¥yes so no there up is different with telephones, issues. of Anatomy Gray's and almost rank the patients. no and which etc., no were There nothing, must that Well, Spain, Italy, for. paid #2 (BECKY) WINTROBE M. MAXWELL I were. besides that. EC: Now are many so expenses. their given I honorariums wondering was addition in if to was this substantial. BW: Never, and semething, if he did receive nothing but one, like it the might be $100 politicians or are getting. EE: Were invitations there consultant or a consultant 54 that fee came to like some him as professors a MRS. MAXWELL do now, BW: No, he School in vacations. a large Athens. No In from ever that many very never received Was great a had were fees he salary? their than income their where #2 (BECKY) WINTROBE M. consulting a In Greece, for to He gave it Italy we were taken [END OF TAPE] 55 consulting but fee. money. greater factor? invitations, large. is the on instance, Medical wonderful THIS IS TAPE TWO OF OUR SECOND INTERVIEW WITH MRS. WINTROBE. THE DATE IS AUGUST 20, 1990. WE ARE RECORDING IN THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HER HUSBAND MAXWELL WINTROBE'S ACHIEVEMENTS. THE INTERVIEWER IS EVERETT COOLEY. [THIS" IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT.] EC: This is won sort world about on there ILet me there was there was, not EC: any With there maybe at the him He didn't EC: Encouraged BW: He did really caused need I to the problems in bit but of was there man? What had what conflict, universal was the here? the trouble of other campus departments was, but on, was encouragement in in any and Medicine there presidents, acceptance he over, Department lower to be way. and so pushed. say. to because I peacemaker, M think had great got after trouble the faculty who dean who They had one he was out to a rather that Dr. along. deans was it and with contribution Dr. was deans first Our encouraged. be eventually He Castleton's the inexperienced, dragged York. Maybe vice should need not himself. his here forward? rather were a faculty in amounted deans, BW: the think wuniversal pushing New on or but all there “great” jealousy. that his this I no was jealousy, like see, subject, invitations campus, of relationship delicate with some acceptance BW: a acclaim here was of enhance important Price, who job he a was Ccallister. that in really Dr. did MRS. M. a deal great and EE #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) MAXWELL smoothing towards relations between town gown. actually And telling to me Cache The building of Valley doctors support the of and in the Utah of problems his would conference ridiculous the of support University State plant. as things he was him if athletic the He having compromises the Logan athletic same some some physical the U. of that he to was go up offered. he would program U. This had to in was work out. BW: Well, that ECk John Dixon? BW: John Dixon, EES Well let's then Samuels BW: He EC: Yes. BW: I EEC: All was can a his the job, same, see, I has very call forget just young him a young and his there have been another on. Why Because if not the didn't he who he liked a fine followed should man. John Dixon, but we say that? man. with your invitations world, to another accept Utah. 517 husband's achievements, great university, was else? indicated reputation he left. man, You must and who right. country, BW: was come from and medical those? all great certainly over affiliate school, and the with so MRS. MAXWELL EC: It BW: And was that he simple, didn't Professor started work the East. Medicine that with huh? like of school. those He Einstein, there. was invited said, "You interested other one in offers. of He had back East. He to be was invited as hospitals, He invited a I to in but a to go Chicago, he wasn't that he had Hopkins to run to full professor didn't because want president be be want know he can't to back but the they I invited didn't else? be when professor a to that salary," Where several was think he your was invited Sinai "I but hospitals their they said, name that. was Mount people." at they He at professor He #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) M. of to go Scripps elindcs I a wrote medical wedding no Peterson celebrating party the Dr. a nephew be there. day" very clearly, army help the Scripps had presidency so I I I to being Scripps' and Angeles attend. to explain For from offering Clinic and was I "moving the County the dquite a why watching and of to There remembered moved here. had anniversary wanted I Peterson Los sitting dangling 58 go that were hospital the Dr. couldn't wrote we been of to but patients the to Hospital had requested, R.S.V.P. wouldn't I letter. twenty-fifth the center. of a a Max time the Research MRS. Institute. While and Dr. it him was the come. Ed, to stay and in EE BW: again. at He the So "After I were that he was amply with promotions and salary? His salary I hope had at Of was what Hopkins. of He at making time was the state one this came mind, letter to to be to I said, am going happy he I years we for rewarded don't '40s, Utah this Dr.Peterson, Was When the and here." much, is would to, twenty-five was. that time that. only It I getting about the University governor. It was a that to really came here, $3,000 a he year magnificent the matter this president should was that. 59 not think me that $8,000. thereafter, shortly legislature don't seems of the a my rewarded. president time up very last he $8,000. course was the were rang offering if going happy never receiving, been salary always Max they had we Scripps, screen made we of asked wrote that telephone the television that finally Utah." said, remember EE= have in Utah; President Keeney, hospital I watching, were looking magnificent "No, we position Max, #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) M. MAXWELL and was of I making some be. So getting Olpin was at president the at working for one time the more than the in the contention I that suspect much at more this than BW: I suppose. and Yale to out $15,000 should the induced the rest Who were to were BW: EC: BW: Lou some Yes, he was. the time. he they Medicine as to that Dr. Hunt objected. "Why than get we more must not trying Hunt for getting here? money, to or your My but our get." $15,000, $8,000 that get?" compare we're people one still a In fact, in well stick He while less. husband was Jarcho was Leonard neurology, the as to he wasn't other and in an medicine so 60 of the medicine forth. At Department of My husband standards. and all-round was a at Medicine. of methods be neurology in faculties. Hopkins' professor even Department should of reputation. highest man. neurology someone or with young the had professor hematology in the the was Hopkins Your all attracting was was felt Carlton all money we people from doubt. Leonard trying of in Goodman Well, of get men here, Hunt physiology. of more people Carlton eventually probably instrumental no get good Dr. the people that them get and may good very head year, "We with to as newcomer want salaries one, a said, we several trying come wanted if had were husband EC: They they #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) M. MAXWELL Eventually He physician. specialist with was a 1in specialty it was, M. because the a department, department wanted so how that is neurology Len became as head neurology. of BE? psychiatry separate #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) MAXWELL Now mentioned you afterwards, speaking being a want Goodman, little you problem talk about it won't talk about that. I E€: Well, to little proceed bit community the conflict No, a about I think simple, thousands simpler. now, what it He BW: Yes, it are all was was a these In you is sorts My just as want he you you didn't to talk perceived was Did In this a days a in create a days his work is Now you have hundreds these to they things what is compare of were being it with he? Was These chemicals was 61 science breakthrough. wonderful husband and cost those when physician his new. breakthrough. complete companies. great which But was a was tests wasn't of it compare it as these nothing. then a I days many pioneer, was there tape. accepted dollars. it apparatius. for for of were about maybe nationally. those When done EE: was in instruments we himself? he but that husband compared scientist. great as [pause] this, your within the day something said on with other there, to BW: the very he often paid? and a days there wonderful consultant Probably. All I know is put that up in EC: know about BW: He best must your Give me with hotels, and this, hint, what that it we we were always entertained were but I really to. else we him, something, gotten amounted it husband a went have what concluding In always the royally. don't I #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) M. MAXWELL do have you want to tell me discussed? not seems to me that anything as a parent. I always I will bring him N BE: BW: We haven't in there? He was a wonderful a real Oedipus has said (laughter) compare. I wonderful Her father was the wonderful so her view. point of from that whereas, quartet. a in and interest continuing played suffered I he fit daughter my disciplinarian, that contacts outside was and say did this. I don't he could He was a parent. indicated You complex, understand always ECT parent, How he so didn't on, yet, he much seemed time to indicated You music. in have have that a played he Athletically, for a he little tennis? BW: He little a played tennis and he played a golit? EC? Did BW: He he take loved up skiing in skiing. 62 this wonderful place? little MRS. MAXWELL EC: Did M. (BECKY) this carry grandchildren, BW: I to think that go. Eventually Oh, yes. Rustlers. I have sort skiing Finally been of took to met waiting for us under IEEE Yeusdon"tustilillski? BW: No, stopped. I myself town little a said, Sald'Keep skiers. marvelous must what to Engen, to wing, and come he and so is now said, "Oh, here." down friendly did the with He other them and I had time. birthday second trouble and and to see time more inducement people the My out-of- in-town Sgrandsensiare always would more people the s THdidn 't husband My one up come ski came that wouldn't she too? you e but up, e so here skiing," "Stop us, used her proficient so you very heart get skier. Timmy's On to cross-country Alf wonderful a tried were we his became We have after we we with a Engen, Alf instructors. used became she With we and grandfather? when that children the their compete to up of daughter, want took to thought didn't you over love his she So #3 the skiing, go WINTROBE your "You say, grandsons fly by." BE: So this husband BW: Yes. one was enjoyed Well, Wednesdays, I stay here, your skiing. think it to was that was skiing 63 not with the the main whole one, but on department. him. It frightened of to wonderful. was because Also, evenings human being. would have teacher." tomorrow, me enough, Sure as you might when been have awhile, as deprived culturally are you came know what (laughter) about." for here living after then and don't "I said, and talking are boys those So afterwards, him to up teacher." tough morning, next the came she with rounds make a such am I if see and one tough a such are to come you "Oh, said, He remember I you hear I "Oh, him, to saying wife evenings. pleasant very we and wives, their bring would They a really was he that see could Sunday over them went they before had always they that so so were tradition) a we him with rounds on students the became it think (I him, E€: turns take talk could stop would We would They and him with hill the up riding skiing. after beer a have and social. very became we where is This #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) M. MAXWELL do you were first you that feel you afraid that in from Lake City drove Vernal? BW: I think the entire had to other EE? So you go I time, back had we if that to stayed might have Washington just felt very in Salt that often way. and But to we many places. had an opportunity 64 for theatre and everything #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) M. MAXWELL else? BW: Theatre over it world, the not other talking about whatever. terrible the traffic traffic Each was one people was traffic the was going out to spent hosts, come back from three welcoming party No any more an for that also quiet. a party and all that, I after with as a months to were said terrible a matter the driver. bad Utah, were they of not have fact, Oxford, at or terrible how These in in somebody spot. time were physics, Mexico, in we who and Seattle and themselves. So if you to me time your review to you Well, now. give to donating want people how travels world that you and been had this is Utah be. opportunity corrections material to information you thank you used isn't, it peace and their all just it to another with My what of around, Cairo, in over. not all chemistry, was all their with were sitting were came at These been was have So home department, just who I traffic. They how We Russia. come day engineering the EC: to loved. I deprived. been The which except wonderful was have museums, and choose to to it, add reviewing 65 this. We us. to this and In are fact, give make any welcome I me will you If make. you let time, this at haven't have have to had two people, actually BW: after done that All because little bit on might I my interview, want would husband in For instance, Osler's early the 1890s 1910, in meant, I Well, can he his tell did great international many lives. Yes, do patent his it, second to write of all him as many other that he pointed fact that have expand book meant time, had Now what I to medicine, of such So a husband's my hematology. pioneering and all this of on some meant, story? they his don't work and things like out they well. and a in books know which sure what When I give book, came back to you more, because of the these don't and a for became going you come treated am but has saved just evidently chloromycetin all had he he it first patient started 66 am they died. writing in Chloromycetin the down I when was this know or volumes. treatment, sensitive The a picture, with to textbook recognition. want the like his to research won into and they you. a you what devoted volumes what else to pages these on have pursue. Utah, medicine. and to and really work, »have BW: we interview, their research twenty-four EE€: reading another suggestions right, #3 WINTROBE (BECKY) M. MAXWELL have know to you the the danger miracle drugs. A.M.A. Council on MRS. MAXWELL M. (BECKY) Drugs--you I to have see, I forgotten give you a list WINTROBE don't all of of #3 talk these things AREEhYSH [END byl | Backn (70 o o EAais 790 WWA/@% seeglly yes Mk/w/@év W' by um gl TAPE] Acc 309 e, Sa OF g £4 F ey MW ; 67 about these terms. that things, But should I be am and going mentioned