Robert L. Bliss, Salt Lake City, Utah: an interview by Everett L. Cooley

Transcript (73 pages) of two interviews by Everett L. Cooley with Robert L. Bliss, Dean of the College of Architecture at the University of Utah, on April 8 and 15, 1986. This interview is no. 98 in the Everett L. Cooley Oral History Project, and tape nos. U-444, U-445, U-446, and U-447

Bliss (b. 1921) recalls his early life, his education, and his tenure as chairman of the Department and later College of Architecture, University of Utah, 1963-1986. Interviewer: Everett L. Cooley

AN 2 W A T MR AU DNV SRR Acc OBERT L. BLISS O ML 814 WO 500 g - ROBERT Salt L. Lake An City, Interview Everett Everett Tape Nos. L. L. Cooley U-444, April and University Lake By History U-445, 8 Utah Cooley Oral Marriott Salt BLISS 15, U-446 1986 Library of City, Utah Utah Project and U-447 UNIVERSITY LIBRARIES MARRIOTT LIBRARY SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH 84112 EVERETT L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION Date I willingly 1956 to scholarly contribute my testimony the Library of the recorded University ¢S54 5 ; on of 5‘,,&[ 22 Utah to be used purposes. &~ (Open and usable after my review. Usable with the following restrictions: IfiterV1ew = ,&% & % f fl m m é Interviewer for Table Rl ItEe Black Mauntain L LA e T TIPSR e Colllege: SR R le Travelling e e e e e de e . « « « o« o = University of Utah New Program Administration Architecture ShoEE=Term in Critic. of - RS S . = o « < of e . . . . . . < . . . . . . akil . 11 . . . 15 . . . a7/ . . . . . 14 . « = « « . 26 « =« « & o =« = 27 . . . . 28 = 2/9 . 30 SR s « s o o o o o ¢ 312 T o College. e s s . . . . . Meetings. StudenEEvaliuationseile Covernment s . « s Student-Faculty of . 1969. oo IV Achievements e . Architecture. NewSbeanFSearch e . Presidents. PXogra: BIc] CreiE S . e Appointment. Building. College s Firm. Minnesota. Master s Fellowship. of Future e sl University WICHE o R EiestlArchitectnrall New Contents S = a7 Le s T Rotch e of College and & . o . . . . 33 . . . . . . . . Architecture. Architecture. . . <« .« . 38 41 . » 40 42 45 Notable Colleagues Computer-Aided and Planning '« Preservation Historic American Salt Historic Lake City . . . 49 v o« o « . B! Involvement. Historic S.L.C. 46 Design. Tenure'Promotlans. Campus Students. . Involvement. Engineering Landmark Cultural Issue. Retirement Plans. . University of . Survey. Committee. Values. Mormon/Non-Mormon Utah 53 - . .« . + . = Atmosphere. 56 60 63 64 64 67 68 TODAY IS TUESDAY, 8 APRIL 1986 AND THIS IS AN INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT L. BLISS, DEAN OF THE COLLEGE OF ARCHITECTURE. WE ARE RECORDING IN THE ECCLES ROOM OF THE MARRIOTT LIBRARY AND THIS IS PART OF THE EVERETT L. COOLEY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM. THE INTERVIEWER IS EVERETT COOLEY. R@e Bob, 1let's about your of Everett, makes I your was me almost and place was beach What My B @ie then when you way depths I were able was your father's father was like What were near some of first twelve, Point 1921 to in we and depression up city out is and our the and which give moved which Seattle scavenge on of to a Puget Tacoma. living This on the firewood. profession? with grade born, 21, about lived the thirty-two regular School, to something were May and was the we High Seattle, between of us background. Three-Three the the where, family when half something was tell sixty-five about in you in Our called Sound having family born administration. Seattle by beginnings: something RB: start telephone years. school, Lake and Burian, your My I company early for schooling attended Highline Washington. hobbies or interests at this time? RB: In high school I was very much architecture.peil vethink., it association water. We cruised We were among with the always San Juan making interested was:. sail because always Islands boats in had during and naval of boats the my and summer. canoces and ROBERT L. BLISS things of being RE #1 that a tennis future. Did have you influence Not so school much that English. the in I One teacher, far naval as future, really And I so large places, a John Florida. students, size. by It but I or that the time Adamack an was has now in in high teachers The of mechanical influenced me in I as the didn't had we book called off small, an college? Washington My of was It for other had 3just been America. had Rollins never influence simply looked college College. split very a or experimental Mountain a taken teachers university impersonal as very profound architecture so on have a architecture of Louis a college. attend at had certainly but ©particularly recall. University Black Rice or the and not who The straight until section Carolina, by think, tennis, outstanding particular you and published was were in was you architecture did that that remember I time line school. discover felt one path although where that high in drawing interest teachers along upon career? at some you your Strong bum attractive encouraged EC: kind. more far In in been that North formed College than beyond in sixty its ROBERT EC: RB: L. BLISS Is this #1 one of involved in Yes, school the its the faculty. I did It I a classes It having of was people Anni Bauhaus There on, people and teach. mornings like as Part a the experience of would was work; to We to that the was very system. small a large fortunate and by Dreier in his from closed so the Hitler. who operating. was Later Fuller would come down the program was that classes, then much very Mountain college of of painter, Ted Buckminster kind Oxford Ten was people, idea not were Black by followed or ten. run depending obviously, come would week case Teaching the that My Albers, have not was scale Josef the It sliding arts. when money. Cambridge six keeping such afternoons a pay. liberal in one to from other instrumental work regents, on tutorial Germany were no was Albers in little were guess, lot there's scholarship. anywhere class. wife a would was very ability have much, had Tuition families' where program? There structure. on those and two participate to three the work first year in program. Consisting of Well, first the consisted bring up of to what? year--that emptying the coal college. 3 The was 1939--the cars at college the was siding housed to then ROBERT L. in BLISS #1 old YWCA an What The was the closest eighteen We miles However, acres, could build and a place and the noted architect--prior Depression work for I'd that really needed some math of those found a "at on things if you he of 4 very many of idea was came, been help And just a very head of Architectural He'd also "Williamsburg K during - the work. my a and was not And when first around naval fell to a side The the be want wanted how needed. thrashing in it north had to interest nature. found Kocher During just that professional were that subjects. real architecture, that somewhat so some distinguished wanted and certain Eden. with kitchen. forgotten Lake Rockefeller. been came, college is the that called editor of of the to Asheville in hundred--on RPI, some college the Lawrence done dener®ailot I point at Record--had worked indicated facilities that but things so faculty at school hill. property--I've about the We YWCA three at students west. the of the Mountain, apples, back, perhaps valley that the 1940 piece on Black picking in up town? was to building large the closest town worked its facility too Lawrence place, architecture, call it that. at thinking architect. doing into year well I in Kocher and straight I ROBERT EC L. BLISS Was #1 the college architecture? Bauhaus RB He and was You so a somewhat indicate in experience. a obviously, There was literature, was unique gathering 1940 very One of either a educated began roommate in or had a own eight-by-twelve. YMCA the pattern wide. This studies worked was all that for three Eden. you or then had every eight-by-ten seminar we and thirty rooms a the developed and So or because This long afternoons in that but rooms. students. we situation was feet the the of It people, Lake was buildings, 200 on. so at possible many new some of been so contained for on the charged roommates, had so 1liberal college which Mountain; and over kind study, had for that the three That building structure of or of very German Black poetry buildings dormitory two his old the also the at 1liberally on patterns slept student and working the from was with everything music, liberally coming he architecture architecture, a man toward on. painter; interested oriented we built a feet and the worked--I week mainly in carpentry. EC RB Did the students participate physical construction? A bit, little but not so 5 much. in design It was as well really as the designed ROBERT L. by BLISS #1 Lawrence RE This was RB: Oh, yes. Kocher. co-educational? Larry others--most of the staff. All whether carpentry another year full of a us fall I I MIT back 1949, January of The school--the recoggized your for the to or I housing I I for talents couldn't After get wanted, had going and some gardening. that a into finished so summer the my the I and army. In degree in actually. college you even that before and different summer. MIT '49 experience had . training at came we realized in building housing, masonry MIT semester 1946 faculty or professional to that found there transferred EC: designed to be there. must have permitted It had a to good been enter well MIT from reputation, did 32 RB: It had ECs Does RB: It a very it still doesn't of--it York back the 1949. and to exist or It went thrive on revolutions, faculty New college anymore. to Josef the reputation. exist? seemed revolting in fine revolting. Albers and England college be last were raising funds, and they had just been an a series students one Dreier into 6 The Ted that turned through occurred up in rumor proposing art school. New got that The ROBERT EC: L. BLISS college was meeting was called, Dreier, and that Did the sixty RB: #1 It a managed tried to maximum or school. Everybody there war was so, like John Cage coming but of of Einstein down major books to come as a out, really I I kid was from girls' after summer the the school. dancer, and Buckminster and was there, have been Another poets to and and some even recent, one terribly Seattle be that. a right painters Jjust would almost with the expand? sessions, There with there Then and it. approached became college. think. Albers of to never Odets the naive said noted once. about they for general static Cunningham, down Clifford end try gone. a drop the activity Merce playwrights; to they it was and fairly school number came did think lot people any I else With Fuller, or the a much remain 120, the voted pretty expand. of community, they body During war the and was student students by is about fortunate get to that place. ECs Talk Did just you a get little about overseas? Did your you military see active experience. duty in the military? RB: Yes, tfie I also was Pacific Marshall in merchant the delivering Islands and things the i marine like and served gasoline Philippines. When in to the the war ROBERT L. BLISS was over, the we were also Sea. We was We another then sold to troops from Hulutao the Nationalist Chinese. in and back Shanghai I went back to to in Bay to Indochina ship months to Subic assigned the immediately take to Taiwan the Yellow Shanghai, We finally MIT, in and it waited got a home. didn't really but-- in number then in took Almost were were ship up of action, Liberty group couple see a Nationalist and We on Philippines. Chinese ECS #1 the of same field. Marshall I was at I was Islands. Subic in Bay the and any navy, of course. Ulateha RB: 42 Yes, Ulithi, then you Yes, whole concentrated and Alvar the very Aalto, lucky the Lawrence finishing in Anderson teaching at returning of 1949, Herbert critics architect, and I MIT there? have Finnish to such William others. began Beckwith to who as Finally work both for were MIT. This being Yes, internship Yes. to Anderson and Now, architecture there January Lawrence MIT on famous Wurster, The bunch. kind program, of your apprenticeship program? program. was that five years at that time? ROBERT BE: L. BLISS So eventually from you came that out out hoping help it that on its percent of year back to with a Bachelors graduate of it way, degree Architecture. schools Travelling 1949, in and a now in this lucky enough Europe. year I've that wife later we tried still and I to about that have Well, firm for about win the Rotch to were and programs. provided My is, country for which it there's I worked Fellowship travel what architecture was academically disappear. right of an knows will but the then is Nobody history. and year's which bachelor the year, in a degree. keep five with bachelor meaningless a came right? Five-year 50 you MIT? No, Is #1 funds I for were a married bicycling around Europe. EC: RB: What were this fellowship You had your very committee EC: doing, when you I see. visit to few and So any in it of where They or obligations under Europe? preparing returned. being travel obligations informed were simply responsibilities a other you than were report keeping and to give understood the matter being the what to you them importance of required to Europe. was not a universities to o make of contact with people at ROBERT L. BLISS #1 QINSSNNTEUSEES USE W galfto architecture RB: And it was I think time of and a forty--I you hundred culture found in experience. think it was a the Europe. We dollars--oh opportunity Oh, it and bicycled was chateaus, Well, I from in wife she 1is had at that magnificent no, it was sum less it to Pisa so was man. bought and an young an bicycles and on on Paris, visiting the artist in way all the down. so-- architect. She graduated from 1950. thought Well, Paris your a We cathedrals, no, Harvard for marvelous. course, Oh, that the that. Wonderful Of on marvelous forty-five than so absorb is her interest was art rather than-- now. ENsee. She's more work and involved so on, but and some interior We returned--well, Florence a for month at southern France home to with she work the painting still as three me and Holland thirteen say England, cents 10 that in my We then and pocket on we then screened architecture lecturing and and silk some Academy. Greece, and as months, American and does well 1let about Italy with color. 1lived in Rome for traveled to in back through finally getting [laughter]. ROBERT L. BLISS #1 EC? Any prospects RB: No prospects us at to get the a a boat job. and year is 1951. With an architectural Yes, and Was there saw it worked to our is This any charged get an store us to groceries get a job money apartment grocery allowed met in open for a about and-- Bob? firm, you several on any did this, for desire I enough had nice they parents us still and finally wife's gave we very Sages, We what I a my and where was account. Now what, York Boston called weeks, Luckily, New There Cambridge job? in to subleased. three of back charge of your kind of were saying during part the or an now? next any year. need advanced as you degree in architecture? Strangeilly, the i terrible teaching, and was asked to MIT and that University I would Boston, so old " (I'd age of 29) that I do expected some discovered next teachers, feilt’ spring of to ‘got I I enjoyed head of Minnesota came East young like to go to with so many teachers. Minnesota. graduates 11 of i colilege no it the It from Well, enormously. school Jones of teaching searching Roy at thought practice. part-time the cheap had simply lecturing, that out asked really Harvard at Then at for I the young me if seemed in and MIT, ROBERT L. so BLISS many in of Boston practice RB: staying that the were firms. So to Minnesota. try my MIT the at I say would that an aura or Yale, We found go into or any that network it's kind Some of that that person hard that of is on to stay to the be very a Boston for might a were I same worth it interesting be that. school or in help campus them. the I wouldn't list I a certain Utah that and, within compete on bad They their that not aLz year Columbia, from though, I had was with do cachet. they or any three of lack future can the the old- careers. have to be I in meaningful. of an think, schools, two things really point, from those them who much of schools. superior. so that one can too at unfortunately, office they tops vary judge is, graduates, so back out attended tradition, the here to those rather MIT graduates eastern to turned There our from it like schools having with go to initiating architectural Princeton, find think it for I thought and now. about graduates boy and wanting time? it's way or working sounded Harvard that weeks, It architectural year them I foremost that When still and place, country to wife Boston slight. classmates liberal Was in opportunities very see although EC: them still and EC: #1 MIT really interview accepted at MIT, feel with not one in ROBERT L. BLISS #1 architecture, Bailey, and but he was belaccepted surprising RB: Oh;" Ithink quickly EE€: They RB: Can stand up IRB's up but So at a There were years small was this It's T about Roger a Utahn would this a 1little that found attitude. at go out somebody against against apparently, Is down talking surprised students articulate, had of was feeling from Utah that and very discover-- stand you he "'and kind looks they Eleven FE quite " our’ can as think at ™ #MIT, this everybody I the any may competition. of them. not we've got Minnesota teaching be some might as very for how and They not be sophisticated good students. long? practicing. My wife and I practice. no sort fairly teachers, conflict of there thing saw encouraged general keeping you across in among the touch in the practice? architects? country with with their in field design field by practicing. EC: I was wondering, for you're expected Seoon " through architecture” producing to instance, demonstrate writing, “you " rather than ""display writing? requirement? 13 my your So history proficiency research this' of writing. through ' there is not and In actual that ROBERT RB: L. BLISS It could of this #1 certainly be This is a with Robert Almost Bliss, at all a in or less than and I came there we put things 100 it a our time be to it's worked of the practices are very large adjunct or he worked downtown? RB: Burtch Beall EC: ERSees RB: Burtch taught charge of ago never for have had various continuing during ruling that office. was to. My that, Then if a few faculty on them legally to very well. out at that-- all, but None it does experience. taught did stated design allow and Beall were Olpin regular practice, Burtch Minnesota was able some practical his downtown do them about regents' a would of percent at President I interview Minnesota. Utah, have our talking of still with all of teachers is practice, two we're to not coming to ago years criticism, ONE] side design may in years give EC: When professor wanted SIDE University the fact, agreement I the of practicing. well, OF continuation, experience RB: writing kind. [END EC: in one a a you. full full Was it appointment finally, education classes 14 our as an while he appointment. classes; of more many he was only. crunches, put But in two budget ROBERT L. BLISS #1 crunches, ECS You we were had at to the terminate University him. of Minnesota for how long invited to the then? Eleven years. Eleven years. University of expanding RB: The And Utah, department department Bailey 1963 had to was then come doing to what the I'm The following had been College so working of of to year then I an Arts was be So as now: I chairmen chairman a an in all the in some until separation in Roger return came separate Roger asked department through amicable to I everyone, was of expanding. and the go folding on Fine 1949, charge college? particularly retirement. chairmen, and a about as [chuckle], develop head ultimate made to in and were take it teaching head. to not founded were what, or was you to 1963 heads, cases 1974. from We the professional school. EC: When you came, had presidency--let's you had see, some '63, commitment that would from have the been Fletcher? No, Olpin. Olpin from was him still thaf here. Had eventually college? 15 you this had would some be commitment a separate ROBERT RB: L. BLISS QhSE #1 na) ehinar There was, discouragement from Fletcher move took ten actually the first school, at the the it right of them high that should nature. real university of five of students also years. a at that graduating were have could very a lot look many. very to were remaining when they more. So contribute work at said of the graduated. we limited as that other This was architects 16 had of that almost taking a in at the tremendous rate. if they It level end was you're only that were They didn't technique. and no waste really than a about professionals. graduates design students therefore, twelve and we aunts students educated, the were faculty The what them mortality of and look essentially, gave We of to and, into, of the was something obviously, waste well at or which kind One taking draw whole with whose graduating was that producing to program This were them perhaps tremendous weren't 1liked opportunity. and about Students putting training program We school. that acquainted was architects were eighty-five about. they be We technical be it so great accomplish. the what fact), it, to getting and see should out they after to about years university, program thought told things, i see that ten years need to be that they later You they were or educated, ROBERT L. BLISS much better ask that we #1 educated. they could get make example, in it their for of number to other what about, whole to a twenty-some students, Maybe serving planning RB: EC: yes, on a planning of Did you they the requirement RB: No, on end was thousand I are That a going what the class has three that after twenty there was year, thinking some up architecture thousand making committee or something on school-building things and we've so like on. some to this degree in another a most schools five-year a of in 17 city- this. committees I think new the program. discussion or that and it's done. resistance of an architects about, students out take planning about. keep for introducing what was that, been potential [laughter] established deal and But so has to field. might class history commission actually, good they was society. best meet other system about, quarter. commission Oh one a that successfully, was ex-students to some That very years contribution doing year problem about hundred in class. architectural running of overlapping architecture four BS architects environmental been or years, than what way freshman lecture a BA an introductory people BECs a One about At approach with the field? country were on the was that time there things that needed to ROBERT L. BLISS be #1 redone. At discussion and university 1969 to BA or a and get BS fourth any the couple approval in in us more years of the field, and they looked average years getting We at It able end had of some and were had admitted fifth a the had promising program, by required the they of various were student then professional four program. the grade intensive approvals. college If point took for another year it regents' architecture. three rate and a to sixth year. Is that still the program that exists today? Yes. What did change RB: We this from the we were knew prepared about by make schools kept to old program it. the program program one the that but take we change-over. went to also. a a They major design. had a were one Then there and schools 18 no it it, a a a the ones lot Some of schools six-year four-year bachelors turned gather, to first instituted or and problem us were program. those I real the instituted of drop beat of architecture Many done was Berkeley six-year in did significant there program Some How enrollment? enrollment. year, environmental mistakes. to enrollment? Ultimately five-year with your going maintaining change to for do out simply in to be to be ROBERT L. BLISS able to push the to hold on to students keep are #1 their some out the programs and others The profession the present programs, hours that to schools are must be is in southern a five-year no Ph.D the now there that on masters. through they went In forced which most of five-year possibility. California 50 five-year six-year if program, about reactionary, went only tried and are didn't they mentioned, very think the I six, profession they same, still on They university; the As typically and profession back the difficulties. of enrollments. into credit percent that, their I through fact, USC the to think go is a disaster. Is there There For program in architecture? is. people 1like Peter Goss who are architectural history--? RB: Now for true for programs, Michigan Ph.D. EES Is architectural years, not has this but a D. rather for than are successful. Harvard Arch.; Florida primarily historians, there terribly program; teaching RB: the has those the Yes. {59 a number The has practicing of been Ph.D. University instituted of the one. instituted people that's who will remain architect? in ROBERT ECS L. BLISS Something same RB: things reached think care. a been Arch. We'd the best no This lack it's the the more academia degree has meaningful that become than a many of direction at at. talked to about three of go in it. That people do our such promotion, in that here? probably of be movement have use where looked certainly We profession, unfortunate point I've step. library should university We've the it's It Ph.D.s There's as in thing. I the EC: of Well, the RB: like sort union EC: #1 it, now but may with I'm be the Ph.D.s not next or convinced D. it's resources. a degree tenure, has and so been on no in problem your as college, far has it? Not really. every I'm year, dissolved EC: I architect three for but (I served I coming up there, they and for but I comes up is going UPTAC I do moved and requirements of UPTAC. should be the don't tenure Ph.D., There a question gather that, instance, to the in UPTAC to be remember an hope). on years degree sure know away partly reasons better 20 or ever promotion over from it for in just was to doing during social a my work, master's satisfy things the like ROBERT L. BLISS that. we #1 Well, were let's in running full the three see, swing old years that took with one there the us new to 1969. program, In but simultaneously, so that managing we were '70 also there were both programs. Let me just people for downtown--now, instance, Were pause now they a Jim they've moment. Christopher won graduates There some of the and national old have been Brixen, for recognition. system or the new Probably the system? Oh, I RB: No, no, EC: Oh, I RB: And did I came he that. realize didn't did teach, teach. to here here. student a was he thought ECS graduate. MIT an was Christopher Jim Actually, for teach few a years. see. is recognition Oh Just finished finished the some done and very practiced here taught Astle. Neil Just yes. and at then went the Rhode in work a number to MIT Island 2 here building this Student fine for national most the achieved that's graduate graduate. a was Brixen Brixen--Marty Services Nebraska of years. for School a on He's Building. where Neil master's, of campus. Design he taught graduated then and he then ROBERT L. BLISS #1 Nebraska--did EC: What about quite a funding battle for changes that pretty well you resistance bit for to your get you've practice in program? Has adequate made, support on of or Fletcher's the You part this funding did you? Nebraska. been for a the administration did mention going to the some college level. If you look at university, Es our budget architectural pleading has program is is them issue, this college right budgets on the in the bottom. campus Our concerned. there the Institutional top computer The be and rest with has six Funds been schools and special funds 212 and that isn't inequity the age through of in for are some the on our for generous. the country equipment has My special Committee very of good schools to budget a There gross the of dismay. money. been facilities percent think So a related they've or five on is 10 my wealthy recourse the bootstrapping don't only facilities, as I may computer far to that to in much programs. that requests are very poor find lowest dependent of really we the unheard. number have in school, gone a but school. is particularly certainly as the thaturight? any We of architecture Nationally, of all been are just minority ROBERT L. BLISS faculty. EC: #1 I worked that ThilsSprebillem®™eof profound for lack effect on three new positions. “of ' funding, the faculty has this you've had been able a to attract? RB: Sure, I've only to go for young, untested, inexpensive never chance bring and been claim was fine. There's The expense that can have The man may general be been available one is Science National few so of about good stars, deal decidedly stars, I but of that a very it's don't university at think 1likes to outstanding scholars on. advertising, of That's on but pattern the real sort of certain how that and programs. does it aid the not school? money? Has that difficulties. The National grant Endowment beyond the has been the Arts provided you for 23 engineering recognizes 1is ([laughter] years, A impact money, although architecture? in Foundation architecture many and star, faculty. brilliant, federal about so little educational What last have very a some regular winners and got There's a is significant. they prize still relatively people. talking department the that in always They've of all Nobel This math department. that's to Fletcher on. good the a that's going RB: able inexperienced, President EC: been could The pale. good get but in the matching ROBERT L. BLISS funds. do #1 We've had projects in Renewal, those West had quite the South NEA for the Salt new elementary than NEA, our EE€s Lake turned Two years from NEA research Then funding I to got run for a a all of fifteen- competition the it to 1Inside-out design came of through, [laughter] has NEA district, ago when down. from Assist. Board it grants Gateway School school. of to Temple, grant board number «city, funding. thousand-dollar school a been very upon the But a the other slight for field. Would you <care to comment administration presidents? Have supportive others programs than on the different some been more you offer that here? RB: Of the presidents, he worked very campus planning a year after I thought it Yes, it forget Emery Had and the was really going. began. fine very with He Roger was When only did he interested Bailey here on for, and getting I think, retire? a where short little or the time to 24 do the all president was interested in went and next mainly be to That's arts, So '64. been seemed math. such obviously '62. have who was closely was must Fletcher science I Olpin money the humanities. caretaker. with it. We had broached ROBERT L. BLISS the #1 subject school of during want David Gardner it's in of purple that, but McMurrin and open to quite we it's been working and You had a you not? course, That few a change to be to on a it and any program architecture been think say it for interested we isn't people. going 1964 we was any more in our everybody kid Since Fine We advised back should building Prudential cost It the Sterling Gardner thrown I good. fourteen Sterling wouldn't money. cost to of David change. has times. a going art the of report. the committee from number think I committee. a a Maryon, been Taylor in "I turned not the quite a Ed had Tom making got It's money. if make Poor and submitted that, blue-ribbon up Wallace, [laughter] faces when it about say money. Ed he when (spontaneously separated. a "I Then was get said, dean." said, set on He meeting) because Walker prepared Engar done." we was Savings. very is professional faculty should this another Keith Arts' you that shades came, separate administration. with architecture that see deal Fine time think us to of a Fletcher's don't College becoming money cost we Arts moved cost to had also Center, into in 1970 HES very important 25 role in planning that, did ROBERT RB'S L. BLISS Yes, a we #1 worked design people programming. competition like Elroy Board. He building turned out, a good sense exhibition One of and who used Jjust I Again, going Nelson Building us EE on of ran to said, think, we tried into be on forget very community to adamant the it. well. State But the has for It working get around the hall. the most attractive on campus in my way of thinking. RB: It has a few EhatWiE N works During all changes. people RB: well for wus. of this time we are People left, a come close. Have you There with the to be is a it ago positions are my and a lot just started we purpose 1Its offices downtown for weeks, ten they faculty, to or and but It's than flexible. making became faculty available, accomplishments, new facilities, number of of faces new that other I'm I visiting not over well a new think, faculty? there. Is acquainted people? years Critics." if new seem true Two So resorted this acoustically, quite left. program, ECT problems or any [END program was solid a for a to week, combination. OF TAPE 26 ONE] called from people bring or "Short-Term one day a week THIS IS TAPE TWO OF OUR INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT BLISS AND TODAY IS TUESDAY, 8 APRIL 1986. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PROGRAM HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY WITH THE NEW COLLEGE JUST BEING INSTITUTED UNDER ROBERT BLISS'S DIRECTION. RB: We've been blood per and at year the offices EC: able I same had RB: support really has ours the the is An percent on that sold agent the a for and perhaps for construction building day of after 6 for a it's you of Regents or the that you've got our alumni has 2 financially profession. of a doing are make that commission or pays years' might work He years. real A lot all staff for may It the nothing. the for two and Dbig commission building. of 1large Everybody architects finished, profession important to been couple for an helpful and year of in very example, cost percent this a pebple school. is percent The new support. that 10 of program, keep at not lucrative lucky. architect, what hasn't if they're takes problems not be pints critic to this profession It Well, expenses work. the able Board and knowledge eight happening the impression profit, been would to great. commissions. is go from been because It as short-term that Council community The what's think Institutional this of to many the have contact. you as time would community get through informed Well, when to 6 work may be estate of the profession's own ROBERT L. BLISS fault, KEE Now and we're you've there RB: #2 trying talked any problem this come fairly when it have to was be very visits of is of no words, through as and funds, others, say can response they have are been administrations not so for the the of reviews. There can deal- issues, such that Jim only the Clayton and must include administration--even to do needs anything. turned to be In criticisms school other with reports what number problem. reviews the last been administration. the are of with never School kinds which school 28 We've similar Talking many about a College accreditation facilities, going and the Graduate There from nationally college? had then. certain and graduate have from you accreditation from with do. a did Did first then have just college? as Was or in the are faculty, required there had on. were and And so transfer arts since students. our we response administration they years there a accredited 1954 accreditation -faculty it our reviews required other in also these Was and that. accreditation separately received we've get are change college fine though five them to the accreditation. years Both of early every without you schools we help the easily? Even Arts, Roger for accredited separately. Fine about part Architectural to in Right to done a if now various for the ROBERT L. BLISS school very and nothing much. FElsh We'll happens. see anWexercise process RB: #2 unless seems like. Sure. And Maybe obscured in in of over a the Architectural five some these serve to years. their your student go you through or are purpose, "Thank years." things for say, response but purpose the has report. it unnecessary. the Board this reaction, just Presently, Accreditation questions all futility there's some they you They gets National seventy-three well, they're repetitious. EC: Related funding, several involved in you RB: at have Yes, we been eligible many of the body the WICHE and colleges Program, also or ‘somewhat departments does that touch to are upon all? at have of number a student for WICHE actually see, Let's one least for accepted we've EC: to or We've Wyoming. years, eight but students, not and that here. come Colerado's doesit seven from have ""a @ College of Architecture? RB: Yes. Wyoming they're and Nevada Except for doesn't, proposing doesn't, although one. Idaho? Idaho, yes, has one. 29 Wyoming and Nevada, ROBERT L. BLISS all #2 of the programs. WICHE ECa RB: If (We you but were that you Oh, it's would he do being asked a show.) over again, especially 1limit we from didn't process to If student and Alaska Alaska are of right finding the went choice outside, to I new dean. We're present think ours and run the other in 1963, I doubt if come. The budget thousand Isn't is that may the that an to people school be me to budgets then would way. I was Had would was I have ninety-six go financial. done. The off the We've search committee Eunice Shatz, all we to limit the [laughter] him formed chaired it, our we with Dick who ways may AIA, was 30 him in have one which positions the told record. shown other alumni, have you vice-president Currently, for upon people? academic leaving faculty position in-house present vacancies. our unusual want it's could the schools' who dollars. selection You for faculty anyone at naive about a we're take so things when all been the now at look from there sophisticated one have differently? obvious through states a beginning going not RB: accepted Program, members. B surrounding advisory must go very has Cummings said which or opens it two up council, outside. good It The people: from the ROBERT L. BLISS honors and program, Bob Five for about members We of wanted that was brushed That and they're choice and that's can't some members RB: I'm the dean. Is Irwin has to told to are this the five And in to will two me, make a names." is re- candidates. relation are faculty. Altman interior a still to what trying with the to these I buy faculty the search any representatives new a for committee also? deans seven know don't I provincial the of some been mention that on inside. provincial I Irwin happens didn't unusual that those now. considered. report one of everyone. our will been leaving. appointed all to and we have be names, means what you that that's remember right to report "They two me. science school, interviewing to sit see provincialize Yes, me graduate agreed with, that college from faculty we surprised office, EC: has who months necessarily what time two give all the political aside where committee of of committee not read Clayton our to interviewing ECe Jim Huefner working So #2 history and nature, than university criticisms. department you can't way quicker any of in been he's since that. Long ago was indeed get away I of from HER RB I don't mean that the St deans appointed aren't ROBERT L. BLISS #2 excellent EC: people, for Is going teaching RB: Well, to be position if it the is wants retirelgon of them course, creating offered to have do to been in their to stay on in a desire? can to. I can't TIAFE. of continue. afford financial to and That's, 'of problems. I've but I'm is dean search things that you differently if I'd going to be. outside an stop program, retirement unless Apparently [laughter] the phased that you I in a for that some begin place you me awhatts going a agreed faculty not all years. colleges there but made. EC: When RB: have would I Yes, twenty-three at Looking 5 averaged has ultimately This RB: of fine arts Oh years budget, of Utah think I wave The promises 1legislature in your know was situation to not increase the deserves better reactionary of raise taxes is self-destructive. last offensive percent. that conservatism EC: some were something 1legislature. the from done financial the what known there if differently-- do would you asked I'd this was regard. administration library. yes. 32 I particularly, One of has been the the sore think, spots library, I the ROBERT RE L. What a RB: BLISS #2 gave fair rise to good architectural libraries. The phenomenal, the have MIT as that maybe work for in about report to the branch for see as the talking he operating branch a libraries is 33 Jack to do doesn't professional what that you're more chemical at it it's a with the situation think for system a exactly applying subscriptions of is was here. in got but with had one used . wWith . the ds college, filled phenomenal had We Adamson, it we the just We've remember five we that it They course is problem a of money. you it's had Jack I about is Downs came. don't because own library. library. this it basic funding and and their building no that's Actually more you Columbia under junior when Bob, libraries? Indiana, a programs, again, related just university his at ex-latrine My ' feeling graduate Once was do have Harvard occurred there's works a library, that ibwEhishway«®" EC: what schools snouriaifinetarts'v "Well, said and Library 1little consolidation felt, Avery that BasEacksEn and problem solution? All to this to a to think something the man for the like University that. and expense fifteen of He campus. Indiana, of run from here. on pay in to come position that Just talking expensive abstracts price directly or Indiana. ROBERT L. So BLISS part mean of #2 of at the I comes think the problem so was Well operated the for we've fine a and announced summer. That the total problems." arts so-called power to clear and goes. through law have Okay, my accreditation with matter the the that date, but Rogerv be would section section. a that fine the first I Roger had at was it "Look said, and be would anyone use problems, out Policy administrator, 34 meeting, arts think pulled acceptable committees. spring of his Then there and Roger moved that heard. I'm said, time that got we've ©problems, bottom statement and good there, were minimal the about Library the very Magazines on. was He say library. accreditation problems, student to went you it arts fine recallyhibuts tryingiitel I was Wouldn't "What's accreditation suddenly that so planning it's forgotten don't economics? way except, I original medicine gotten meeting, deans' a the That supervision. was that's main there thing as the Yes, of such our into matter clout I've suppose. the but time, I 1libraries. of announced absorbed in it, that 1library?" that, but a part every Hanson time was with was almost your it that's own, to branch that schools their down present eliminating basically RB: it which "I drawer gave can do ROBERT L. BLISS whatever E@: RB: A #2 I want." policy that dated Ralph Thompson's Yes, I think senate power the moved. the Dewey our magazines or the had a time, came up, just savings think, around didn't then with would intolerable get a very be and to the reading it and given all Well, a the corner Congress specious do raised this. the figures I in some to happened thing same about what found finally issue We point. come the later little chairman was to went Ggeneralist Nothing anywhere. to melded be that at tried other word a Goss committee of trying but and Peter All with would Library split announcement, announcement, it. and in next the Then library books. job great a summer, the in in They've in <collection manage that alphabetically Arts Fine advisory and and an wasn't and solution, the together. meeting of did Shepherd the here? back lumped were '68, library." Library library that the the would downstairs of of general the into I getting or on and that around going tucked really there '66 was thing the recall It Sharon fields. I about head was pull 1968. "What's to sometime, time. minutes thinking, back the it deans' meeting. 12{@ It was not your contention 35 that you should have a ROBERT L. BLISS separate library over We like do would Social work library. unit RB: #2 As had The over an to to Now selfish, that kind successful up from with department It the the of in the some was to in a just to the funding this the worked well for them. suffer out out an of to expansion saying sciences collection of library look that's to their own at of the budget. but I the sophisticated problem had maintain terribly, more north, to They and of somewhat sounds pretend life collection. now it their part an can't and not opportunity general situation. do an really a programs physical general libraries building it their separate suppose maintaining that isn't a into very--I additional was has books library I it had have but graduate it situation to university believe there's business was sure, sounds budget catalog. know and way engineering, separate come best professional course, were library, move but undergraduate Of Sure. collection, collection. EC: their building? here. area support your that. second unacceptable very in think library way; that present the going I to solve Nl IBES Is the representative of 36 fine arts and architecture ROBERT L. BLISS involved RB: Yes. #2 in Yes, committee, expansion and the I gather, feel it's unfortunate just have a with one around ECs this Well, Reed the that difference another. program, do you know? restructured 1library has done excellent that it of an sounds opinion There like and doesn't advisory Roger can't seem job. and get to be I I along a way Skidmore and that. in interviewing, Richardson other and moves, they've essential * to for some they been instance, of the have others equally deprived the Rex of operation strong some of involved feelings thing their in that is particular college. RB: Oh, Eunice back or What kind Shatz you'll of was lose told, a a bargain [END OF "Either faculty is 37 position." that? TAPE give TWO] the She library gave in. TODAY IS TUESDAY, 15 PROFESSOR ROBERT L. ARCHITECTURE, AND THIS HISTORY PROGRAM. [TAPE EE: Bob, let's were talking before about would have preferred to do again, it some of would continue Oh, and the be some that. I think the development RB: has been to that change of different just is that being of it, to some is there in the extent by some kind program should say the that that of Salt is of the from a program in question of mature, coming they're technical The now. this is Technical Lake training to that they being handled College, can part get or here offer? you the about more much have fields. or ignored a maybe certain the to you there program and moment a think for. not best to about things graduate get we now student, here a relates also prepared kinds I'm you had talk that the to you recognized We that you the feel of if Let's of time. things think I program This last that some like thing Interrupt I and better all the that. because from off differently students much BE? of do for training architecture. some achievements, and technical left achieQements course, great we discussed college of been us we notable the I'd, the where remembered nationally RB: APRIL 1986 AND WE'RE INTERVIEWING BLISS, DEAN OF THE COLLEGE OF IS PART OF THE EVERETT COOLEY ORAL THREE, SECOND INTERVIEW] change 38 in the program did not ROBERT BLISS lose #3 the technical continue, but technical have education the So this for does Along active, young to do, of and into things the I faculty, feel and the your to the was changed meant that been new than really of best now as general they about: did out and of the been of say able barracks those the to acquisition we've would a our students the getting I from atmosphere members building; Those exciting the program, finally all. education, whole faculty three program, the facilities. of brought and program in with it add attention to the and facility, new that role important an played have must acquisition prestige the the the you Certainly quality for new at architecture the course it better it's with it I me, in of and much into change school. EC: a of that program, coming previously. what saying training students see by aspects university. RB: One a one many for knew library, public our and central they can that years Now school. architectural leftover the in we're exhibition space what's going see 39 into always barracks. No even an was there us we'd Previously, campus. outskirts the on been on location central get to was us for did certainly it thing near is on. main the open So to the that's ROBERT BE BLISS been a What about it's RB: #3 real plus the about you feel pretty have that. now like that a in student the out unrest and student RB: is So recently you feel funding, or do you in and riots. Jjust had the student there are about or one We stopped to of student- high. We'll be student-faculty this all that to having has in been report or a it gets 1968 with classes 1listing representatives for all a the back. the whole participate? eight 40 our It's our because committees to now 200. weeks school came experienced right me two representatives six covering next We student are not about discussions permitted find reminds every up We very our to 250. help was that for be gone been we've does before never think would meetings These I certainly setting We've scholarship problem these body students. quickly. and are Do enrollment, has which thing problems body? additional number Mentioning problems had the number It ratio, wonderful Now you largest student-faculty BC? If student enrollment. concern. week your tuition. discussing the of 300 single drop meeting. school. enlarge for the of faculty the good? About equivalent some to space quarter some size right. would We for from people. each class. So ROBERT EC: BLISS We're #3 talking affairs of Oh, and 1it's colleges. What student teaching staff? about How been practiced continual practice campus-wide I'm do the you over feel there You're course and very high Have these as far a don't Again, get who evaluations. sheets think I they of response. doing The sometimes get do get evaluations you We've talk to meeting a get you unless doing our all of going so are evaluate the grading, to 41 of faculty as if we on? quite unfair needed. that's get typically we We anonymity leads your response that mentioned I is and retention degree the well, complaining clear but degree, you if responses. evaluating in useful promotion the rate. response been because if are was various student-faculty worth not really it's because it the lucky very We in tomorrow this about in Typically, quarter. winter from classes then complaining the are since disappointed response. class they and quite finished receiving just To college. limited. so is percent 50 a first responses, RB: in this Frankly, response BCS has been instituted, a the participation successfully? how RB: of that student the evaluations about about students, the poison-pen who is the it's and doing the course-evaluation notes and things ROBERT BLISS that BE I #3 are really remember that by it one has some unprofessional. interviewee led to a professors sort that commenting of that popularizing they were playing question that he the to felt course students more. RB: I don't grade think there's inflation demonstrated on campus. very professors who evaluation is a see as any That easily. give can be There nothing but valuable there's statistically are As. still I device been think if some course it's used properly. EC: What do about do and RB: you to you see in This step the is long very situation. control in one an his the said, "Look, it's the chief going college? You administrator. in involved the the is at with profession next the done a is are Where few University of It lot bad very itself limits to 42 a I'm be just less a years Philip less Johnson Virginia showed very bad buildings) and whore." and and the less a our strange less was to of very has buildings. of state in Recently, gentleman, going the architect built. high-rise (He's of run? what profession buildings, the individual interview of as much The future college and over building he down the profession, the long as design of As effective. ROBERT BLISS The #3 training allows than our of them just to license government. Government this* prepared architects controling projects, that designs E€:s our understand would government is. We simply were of Hall Metropolitan the had have certainly "‘have we positions projects. what good post office kind. cheapest might Justice single biggest "If* and into move better get get architects government we'd to him should the a it's industry into all that is for of from Legally *building.” in ways ideas it that, After ‘for then the into important probably country clientS&iny more degrees, They is of directions. of products. new architecture One city-planning, into backgrounds many coming architect. developing The are in undergraduate an as their box. professionally move should people number a and important his another since go may and contributions different of person make designing program, kinds architects good a be example. RB: LA i ol industry, see™ in government, in development, development architect, other architects Eoll is through knowledgeable real in An contracting. particularly some people 43 Feiity s Splanning; int important kind of for the @estate, in architect in if because association activity, can the with see ROBERT BLISS #3 projects that society, and that then can be in Unfortunately in this he had to find boring. this at its If the coming into Well, it, is at quickly to than have always that gets pretty real problems to take be a new and we of 1limit in look that. numbers dreadful a of couldn't all to almost something city with 1like that doing. that deal would feel he any see for is the almost need developing, architects not to a of what Well, are look meet way of patron. going rather a country you I that mistake. revolution an in architecture donna. sitting traditional way of in and ask come thinks Hotels of efféctive. it's to architect, an He is a good not way in a for 44 around Portman, in go the to going not for waiting job. Whatever various Hyatt a do the buildings, his as him was who architect an is Atlanta, architects, the John examples. good some are there clients. the by by changed be to have to client-architect changed be to going is the of system the think don't going It's think find profession relationship to can architects this I and done, control you problems, Whiie Oh, he be problems enough prima to rich Their society RB: a country. have EC: need he's very, been subservient architects position, to be someone anyone Regency very, and operating. I ROBERT BLISS #3 There are there aren't, limited BE certainly then sometimes have put terms Lee's up of don't profession the on like campus, with mean a very of tax was back to public, doesn't too, thinking Spencer to So to the It could additional it gets educational want build Hall. anything money. long-range quality or Orson payers' of |is, wanted then buildings, 1legislature He and tremendously to is be program. spend tax a The money for government can architecture. Well, this is where really help. We went really poor city, state, occurred after Springville administration very the war. The Even wasn't things National effective the done. I in 45 of seemed began Endowment slowly to for but were they particularly WPA days some of the post to the until of period think number there them that during a and Museum, that and were It appreciation. bit. national; of some in whether buildings, or long very a in through things Art in architects governmental good rather been I government time. building wasteful little that. administration--I Bracken and a conscious the cheapest be in economy J. we in view. Thinking how but problems turn the surely offices, some be Kennedy around Arts a has making ROBERT RCS BLISS progress with improved for Doesn't a costs or IRB'S #3 go government the a percentage used this. much teeth. We to like all bachelor's his the University with Josef is but and saying, University states have doesn't have great sponsor of your of some of some made feel he at Yale, Tom is mind a became and his then But he who Kass quite didn't architect, then so sculptor. He master's at studied also he's "This of you? currently He's Utah been and over all spread now it you to an be to 1966, since are but a that comes with yes. Fullbright, course paintings, Albers. Kass, Tom it, Washington. of still he construction Many discussion some that, of got Now arts. been the to on Union Cooper went the have immediately that the contributions. outstanding One of works--murals, has colleagues, notable RB: for NEA move let's Bob, were competitions. architectural EE art finally The graphics building? a for Even government. percentage certain scculpture Well, federal certain into agencies. was the teaching student the most experience." 46 in Korea our basic after country, important on design student, keeps a they writing course in my ROBERT RE RB: BLISS How #3 have you been of reputation? it here I think it's Tom thing to keep talked because a very fundamental course; two dimensional, and color. It also design and not reasonably Others Tom is new one several is this probably incidently Teacher of our He Tom He Atherton. Peter basic them, of rid he's because Tom very some had keep to him retreaded finish should summer. Kass has Award on campus size. He teaches 47 art history help and got an his Ph.D. also received our is to at Stanford received--oh, has Peter him for architectural as But which relatively A mind. taught some needed We to comes that one first Dbeing historian. didn't out? stand that Tom years. consider Many happy. besides the work their managed we've but offers, interesting explain they down has Tom demand. great that in of discipline. keep to kind dimensional gotten have able been we've perhaps is learning-to- of watered schools Many courses. what me because that they so and it, understand the let kind great lost have kind stay? three a is this budget, has--well, doing nationally with nationally been see schools man your to him prompted partly a about has It's first. You has that able Outstanding the great for cross-campus a school class and ROBERT BLISS also #3 teaches Classes. He's theory. He's are us our young Hallet EEe I mention should of piece very Two soon. [END EC: This is Professor some side Robert of his two L. or it's going in make to the as Minnesota are-- these in had computer some made recognition? gained perhaps as left Stanley Washington who this who Africa a we really Merrill; instance, for 1like that of what design, North in All in Kampen going an because many Hermanson, Robert although work, our he's out had in if as just that's van and is even we've work architectural two and history and not Owings contributions outstanding RB: to someone, had and Brest graduate. something design, these University chairman; you single now Catholic Pennsylvania Have response There ago in good Gustav looks it course area, Skidmore, who architectural areas main years department and I design. for to move very teachers. several Algeria a different architectural good of started teacher. in consider number gotten exceptional they a a part specialized to become a normal people-SIDE OF of our Bliss, colleagues Architecture. 48 ONE] second and we're ingthel interview talking i Collllege” with about of ROBERT RB: BLISS #3 Steve Gregory machine began to group aided us and world. He's various done world's in Vancouver so on. After introductory He equipment, if the EC: in job marvelous I present within the Excuse me, coming or years was, computer- ago ago to of does he go there. work all he's one--worked Smith, over the work doing in who at some Japan had and been on teaching and position research his successful demonstration Ted back started a very and we needed Negroponti Knoxville equipment, getting with the mentioned the other top this with the or six five is going 49 architeciure in day, be gifts getting but I 2And I equipment schools FastERNa done students. new to to has and us to working time of doctorate his went then He ours. of not? he was college, this returned computers, graphics years of graduate obtain to Michigan know of a was Ted Yes, was 1lot architectural structures-- student a was that He left, a equipment firm. this in faculty it president a Steve think Nicholas fairs; for I five is consulting 1972, several or now the computer with four from in the left work about computer us and on Steve and company our MIT, started However, to together design. MIT own at putting get to came of don't believe at will be one of we nationally. remembered as ROBERT BLISS your RB: #3 great Well, I achievements don't [laughter] and other faculty lower floor two It years, computer aided Computers been the a like was that president some hole times. of ARCADIA that's given the for which the is involved an in board of visibility to the good very of money Ted, on still He's on where at me, concern room schools design. baffle computer black architectural and group, that Jjust seems that. certainly members for our EC: there's acronym that about is disappears. past know then? school. Ted Mentioning would lead me and this is some of your outstanding you have had here who have gone students that achieved some week Neil and out question, next the to prominence. RB: Astle. for a in Locally Boyd work. Other his designer major Chicago. Smith, major Hinchman, firms Collaborative of in now is Yamada share One in really I number. a quite had We've is Blackner and now students the country, a partner Cambridge. outstanding 50 and Noel I Fagerland. think students of one of the Tony sArchitects in W thew So, been Merrill president is Detroit, in Grylls has Tjaden Owings, Skidmore, our of nationally recognized Wayne graduates, with last mentioned we've who had have our then ROBERT BLISS gone B #3 on For to a make school a name as for themselves. young as generation of you are, you have gained recognition. RB: Yes, to and get and EC: I my into major think professional maybe we indicated in publishing justi do like that Have you Oh, turn of evidence of and it the so has in have of the something work. either the this? us. understand UPTAC. of the They say, But it I think elaborated, to other in teachers was then Since portfolios evaluations. terribly than their this." send design those 5 of accomplishment. state, gotten to of we've some portfolios all would as committee, don't those let's getting UPTAC prepared we for in they understand on don't of say but rather as because forwarded of we problems professional out architects part control Ph.D., representative we suggested schools as they don't we the discussion, schools, committee and work person's we've major Due . teo.thes:fact publishing from time 1long "Well, beginning question, require encountered promotion a just of little . bit.. and to occasionally For this previous and university-wide RB: A research to on not our colleges tenure positions touched architects other is responsibility. expandiupenigdiit that students that almost ROBERT BLISS #3 beyond RB: No, not but now I have the everything there kind of and recognized the reading on, one the committee at someone oh no, all could there no, done. not that standards the meet UPTAC. up be to deserve the is person a that purpose Sometimes the that of regularly from and so people on questions, even But split-vote promoted the minutes, of sending sent they people they've in ready if feel we ago, they are on the others. representative a had committee? time. the least and what only not us, get change think We years narrative were faculty, feeling tenure university So minutes impossible. in our to college your careful We've UPTAC the of real tenure. is the a it's felt from of has demanding EEis the that. running we on for of and be cases. be thing whole yes, of committee a said, that support the Oh any the are think, achieve to on may negative enough RB: I UPTAC good Has seen abreast anyone very, and cases RB: now or promoted ECs minutes to people you was kept like been I not that looks We've have recently. Well, it and recently? UPTAC from BEE@? reason, you've to the had explain your they because 52 opportunity to have case. are excluded on any ROBERT BLISS #3 discussion That's It a gets Yes. of change cases. from pretty Okay, when we mentioned one particularly, comments Roger some this in Have and on I noise what about was Van Some what's the spiral the so, the that discussion the terrible problem going on with basement staircase on campus some for of the anything under of that committee 53 up achieving a was That not doesn't had office. the Park the and I It's schools. critical Roger in letter [laughter] extremely of bookstore architectural Olpin's lot problems, year. planning. went the a received design various making for I that for on actually time, campus. Ray been and and next this campus one of are faculty our of in I've proposed reappointed relations in Alstyne good. being at Arvo or on doing from a of role involvement buildings, being After suggested really bad recall was wasn't the the beginning involved of of Jensen about continued so some Bruce made the his been be what for been designing may committees. place with in campus? that expansion. had have and you planning, kind there. that really guess, time. campus No, I was this I've Bailey planning, I ridiculous. interviews, of RB: our about help an There our office was Building, a ROBERT BLISS and #3 Roger things would that would go that Roger campus, but and we was the very done. for during good in Ray things was fountains on we his tenure following along, of Then amusing pushing came water. At about Don put Bergsma all our of was 1liked on up to have--really and give have a have it's very people then at have Berkeley. couldn't was at campus do hired. any fountain built, and And 54 then the world, and a slide. The that time inundated was marvelous. It Bill run but into happened was MIT at here school, too. that do to Wurster Bruce the adequate an do to and the of dean the by planning. think, what Well, nothing made school it. done over campus in I the of of whether of involved it Roger's show [laughter] difficult, job administrative Some be with all sketch question some should college slide from them a ©point getting a everywhere. fountains you of one not on showed he finally Brixen be sketches campus. frustrations Roger of with do. the Well, to consequently, Yes, fountains, RB: needed occurred Tanner attractive So forth One them Bruce very slide and always of Obert With EC: there. was None back thought from fountains, EC: he campus. then go that was so hired and Martin as an ROBERT BLISS #3 assistant, went a out recent into private Christopher, Since then, budgets has It of that an Yes, and position onto I would guess my more Bob, historic talk a preservation little bit in seeing established When we and were the in the been you've know interest RB: in effectiveness I say have we lot of at that compliment in our that bureaucracy, I Bruce in way it the very bitter talking about the Fifteenth East, and was he of and it's probably that I not issues better of planning relations or What role. the Utah Heritage 55 of so and your Minneapolis, one off about direction I campus. the active very much. too regret--it's had that my that of sensitivity political a to have than was. other, the that regrets and closing that add you if about things. the experience what bigger understand a and architect. jealousies developed been Bruce over fight bitter has has interviewed I Yes, don't Marty Brixen campus are certainly campus various about fighting that school. it's some sizeable I there the have I a but the know we and become question, I say the Now became operation all. has. ECT that [laughter] seeing RB: must from practice. Bruce budget, kind EE: and I for graduate it's first campus on. was in Let's your Foundation taken? brush with ROBERT BLISS #3 historic preservation Sunday and where he Louis bank in said was he'd Sullivan 1908. He called president and he tapped on the him in to the bank. what they maybe still Building remodel four chandeliers, Bank make story, but I office at the andvhere chair at was my over cube, very intricate grill to Minnesota 56 he said, bank "I'm be a I came one long very my into morning, sitting going and up all it a drop to was cover The arches. the a and space the in of the terra-cotta huge are University and new forty-foot my--no, desk, build a and of country The in president the Bank buildings. old sitting the and the to gets was was, called sclution Well, let architectural it efficient. it day, explained once bad through place there. that then There hanging window 1little president abilities There one Owatonna stopped the all facade, to office Louis went them of whole the in ceiling it. St. Company's Building had his their a stained-glass great he and to called beautiful really cotta. terra and a approximately arches, great brick, down president their is Building Sullivan do They or been in The in on buildings be a bankers friend say window, to company Company. selling to exists, contracting work going a built to happened were just had The see when to in my have ROBERT BLISS #3 your job. like that I'm on or the alumni. didn't want here?" [laughter] got an it anyway. Harris Wright, and But it operation today. The I year Bailey and we came and Don Fred Marekum. Fred Marekum Jim Moyle. Jim Moyle interested left and in working Historic to I'd Preservation fascinating for expert the [laughter] bank The and Oh, name. Betty '65 about is that's rate others, you uh-- Moyle-- and at any rate with it. And again, because become, of for in before early I'd other some Minnesota. the very was I buildings, officer 5 the preservation. particular because redo The any then and historic save to and necessary at and Harwell Sullivan And on. so we country. the other involved was Minneapolis, campaigns quite the and became historic in Bergsma, talked, him was I of Sullivan, Louis talking fine, found hire what something out of president in began forgotten I've to or get we student around interested got I how we and beautiful It's there. still you to on talks give would and don't bank bank world banking the "That's a up bring said, going, the building, I Why was got regents," ultimately who we of And understanding Hamilton in board the It AIA was fifties ROBERT BLISS #3 architects were interested in building new ones. old save to not things, mainly Yes. And the little old " needed EC: I saving to think get out it was that movement and the in same seen very RB: the budget been the Foundation has recently, I been on home out (the on movement about three preservation South Sullivan Tabernacle Temple, Building), was threatened We were affairs. You was. yours church Foundation beginning the in with satisfied in taken haven't been faculty board, and Peter 58 you've and on. and grants a had We go the the became and direction so that achievements? its our for interfering Marekum, Fred biggest our threatened was job my was that and on others the the Heritage Have although upon image. stimulated following on. Most of whole of where with you The destruction first, that reasons modest devolve movement. a came time Utah to Tabernacle. president second kind Heber sparked case this shoes. Building, the the of that seemed Cosgriff Coalville battle of the Tabernacle Heber tennis really when really the in the Dooley then which No, here: the buildings ladies buildings then of that active have. Peter Atherton is in it, Goss has active. In ROBERT BLISS fact, #3 immediately Foundation was unrest, able make and the we started a the first that is say, started was over with market I being mentioned studies of it that. keep to having more much replaced. And also week--we've last particular city we've done in 1969 we're very year I think I provide 1is groups who 1lot of housing on And in a down. being was with that, and torn Inoway But reasonable it the doing-- does It was is does it them. afford years do. last budget when began thing to 1969 volunteer although going be society started That individuals for than We and to Carl people, what And repair rather for Lake So Reagan The $400. was center. guns, is it to which from on services home of the so couldn't emergency design great wanting ASSIST volunteers. $400,000. normally was called So Heritage unrest, contribution collected and the Vietnam community. what professional than the going Graham-Rudman Salt direct student about of on architects director we still worried the more of serving young community architects, and time something architectural $400 big and problem became my the student to after torn down done--perhaps NEA grants for problems. Yes. I haven't lost interest any 59 in the Heritage ROBERT BLISS #3 Foundation, it's Jjust that I've moved into other things. EC: RB: Well, in some other area where some participated, I Beall became involved with survey and historic engineering Yes, the the would Historic like has been lot of to more that that, " would and 'or Goss and, somehow couldn't building survey. but Survey. the Park else. in the fact, we've the done there There never a are many are many of gotten money We Service We've publication get Burtch historic programs. allow faculty then Engineering that, both your and the everyone work, under catalog, of like successful drawings Peter American back done to® do cut drawings Utah think, of ahother around together or something. EES Do buildings Gh'f 'ne), in that Utah is unique? just talking ‘no== you What this historic of destruction in that feel you were about experience your national a is this that indicates Minneapolis in thing? from Penn You go But something who are the Heritage not Station else, a native now, of Foundation. 60 in New to-- York your own Utah nor other It seems to in case here, presidents me that in you of the ROBERT BLISS #3 beginning very intimate from outside to get this seems to I a way, Bobby Fitzpatrick a people, I that so wish are there Eagle Gate good. And or office that and this a so of the in on or plugs do country? of you There appreciation others to point a coming spark unique lack took involved sort across Utahns some of of we're affair, of case a it's position to seems whole that of me anything church building office-- estate real the whatever, to getting the first information out not just the so It but in is it stronger position. problems, other over since a take lacking all getting in educational more Church, would it any happened the effective that are it's that wish better a it because I and Is of and people were thing something appreciation strong You moving. common know country. few us. to don't and state. heritage, eut this quite thing be own had the the think our RB: you Zion's-wanted Zion's then inside pouring skin many to tried for it things and so way a find of it clear earthquake, other structures to on, a do and of thick four-inch and were and 61 the saving wrong then building concrete that discovered then with and new, something inner too floor the compromised. by I guess ROBERT BLISS #3 my own feeling now to tear things down is that and start sometimes over. [END OF TAPE THREE] 62 we really need THIS TODAY RBES IS TAPE TUESDAY FOUR OF 15 APRIL We're talking Salt Lake OUR 1986. about City INTERVIEW some WITH efforts and some ROBERT of of BLISS. preservation the in problems of Foundation has preservation. it suppose things many On happens. going down, the other I see so who done wasn't that everything down tear would saving. 1legions are there hand, to occasionally that think I but trying you because reaction natural a 1is worth weren't that things many too save by credibility little a losing itself found Heritage the occasionally think I yesterday. EES the one of off campus of RB: Has that? organized, first I on was committee the when but now, member organization? effective an dates forgotten I've been it a still you Are Committee. Landmark Historic in City Lake Salt the with course, of is, involved been you've that activities was Frank-- it. Jonas? was Jonas ineffective, totally and later chairman. had I I was reorganized, other asked the I things to law was nothing and to serve Two do. on it strengthened, 63 getting done, three years or It again. and seemed it because resigned I had been Ehianktlts ROBERT BLISS had #4 some effectiveness, position. We architects tried know do certain that we were: they would two, discuss proposals, that and think, say, if months, "Approve the and find I'm sure the Oh yes, project and if te haven't served far as Oh, yes, yes. You and your of the in these city having to a of the to permit. hard try to decision the in historic in four it's have been state active well. preservation with 64 the and I years. operation? in still as but districts, five or architects and developers it's Mostly item. separate know, do wait Building. the of matters I the can building a is, says found in the There not is more everything approved, involved was much that problems. wife and 1law to that you as But go very sort on and very, things do trying: early us worked with dealing been be has County was that to get committee and City trying probably solutions the let with not is as please." the difficult such to in solution a things would this in his committee But on still very come coming they'll then problem, values than a one, everything something developer five if rather finished it's to helpful; smoothly but in cultural life Lake City Salt Is the cultural awareness side of of our ROBERT BLISS #4 existence, say, other Denver, It's cities and Now, different size and do you is wonderful music. to try Lowell from, vintage feel it's didn't want That's the like somewhat Durham architecture. with we're unless or would whether work, unfamiliar music, willing poetry, be easy art why started who there's because Group Arts people other about reason one That's a not more than biography big it's of about talks he to approach They things. society. this and sculpture my the wife ideas, got It and so Contemporary audience introduced be to week. disturbed. be modern into through carries a and to naivete no [laughter] it, or almost other probably traditional new of music, but every written want in for essentially Mahler. of don't think did the Here's to Brahms just part read I But There's to has support conductors, get up continuing certainly upset, get people and good You and and music, painting. Abravanel struggle. this realistic experimental. Maurice Maurice, It and but think anyone EE: or there orchestra, contemporary and vastly comparable Utah dance anything RB City Tucson, In wonderful EC: Lake of Phoenix, funny. music I Salt same? the RB: is it, least to art, or church and at or for or-to point 65 to the dominant ROBERT BLISS say RB: I #4 this is the wouldn't--I reason. wouldn't don'tiSthink & 1'd question after interesting at the to Panorama minutes So I say, "Look, lunch for And say the even there Reynolds one was. I issue years Often here at on stand When cute about that We discussion unfortunate the Campbell the it it, not table church has I whole cannot sit issue. to buy It's--I of and the it today the just I a the it way should going was settled here, of but Mormon Jjust 66 on ever we I could here he and not could turned problem. that academic was finally being wish this anthropology, he an on out coming who Hoble be before and about Eble not been Ad recent Kenneth It's to you subject. issue. thinking When even time gathering the issue. much it social an table, chairman and is so talked I it waste was I loved just any faculty that [laughter] campus valley Minnesota, he at faculty think vice-president said about raises with Mormon/anti-Mormon from hearing find raising dealt be just certainly. of table." the can the but Jjust Rex without true, I sit and Maybe boring. anymore. since that. I whoever Lecture Yes, many whole issue yet it. Room, five the say me. there find EC: so say into think direct a it's our ROBERT BLISS #4 energies one's EE&s in more found Now, an you're productive answer about administrative teaching, climate RB: to continue is a My own or store we think of from you that where this would be your from here vyour or you is would sort of the want subject a and pop and Fourth could that One it grocery West, nice thing use to is as as and she else, and a we house have as been for base a West beautiful anywhere afford else. the has North find to wife mom here living go old could we My to an anywhere you to ski, a We next of a will year. and like you I don't rather play hiking. the do outdoors. that. skier? I'd but with tennis travel and nature. me Are play to sailing love cured used think, she think you Skiing? camp no traveling. army hard least staying to Coast. Fourth know The East on of at eventually on probably over do certainly one? the here retire and here, out to lot live made have able We to doesn't to favorable we doesn't I that because [laughter] planning preference studio she ready you persistent Coast it. duties are not to ways in be a broken Utah, southern spending We'd 67 like like do We leg. of things to that Italy, some time in do some other to it's and tennis, trips, I ROBERT BLISS #4 perhaps we'll stay doing ECs Are India. a lot there you'd I than of other the the state I teaching done. One two commented in think on they experience in have this? the so disputes and academic freedom. that you university's Certainly there's far been no base for to far have as been or this done that point? far its better support. wonderful law, the and people physics; some very, very good people I've interviewed have they've where little I'm not sure that you to comment Good 68 here in in or here other What's your architecture would, where had academic problem felt restricted. would you Have experienced they a that on as a today and concerned? as as humanities care would as has engineering, issues or know wuniversity Utah atmosphere were sciences social in freedom, situations I statements expressed there the the it the of done of academic would about deserves things use feelings, haven't some what things. general you from least University medicine, or that At make that excellent EC: Utah. to [laughter]. in in care think expect some community RBS I say, may you in the encounter to challenges lead to some experiences far as upon you here as the bad? in freedom that I architecture can recall. I ROBERT BLISS feel #4 the university senate, has often under to things going to do ethics to of a steal, very upsetting that shouldn't easily, too to other it, do don't we an was that in in had issue faculty. tenured of review the with do to me The us." to it shouldn't if "Well, code he gave faculty was university a If think I else somebody statement And do will else somebody to the knuckle faculty wire. became saying, kept they and the that know to someone because legalistic the through willing thought copper code that infringement, too about necessary. been least example, some The stupid. have For doesn't member at far they came elaborately and yes. Oh, And, a us. stole engineering that's been that that faculty faculty, system the wonderful on be campus unwieldy, of certain them to go and of lack I it's some 69 for full he hell, to created and interfering, respect recall one Jjust procedures. UPTAC the departments. least Again, reviewed. that's some told who at I administrator and will, professor not would something as insulting think faculty up set think ™ ittls T else. is there that legislature someone or will, regents the that, doing for don't we if that argument same the again, a there's members saying, or "Oh, ROBERT BLISS well, a #4 that's lot of a lousy faculty university over conscientious. these To be increases only to this deans a years, you kill things that are to be to going Certainly to should be? Just off it's percent so an hot- increase the through year of doing is is If that goes on are some disturbing I think that a of the think you threats a be sort this money, the campus isn't thing. to got has in get Everybody percent 10 two for this on push. and those ignore salary that do What 1legislature. the response thing response proceed and by in programs? basic issue pinching the what Bob, this, of even and get faculties that's star, some threats, oh, a very What 50 good, don't there together get really or tell the but the all of making every attitudinal, encouraging of way you So them. is damn decrease. a person giving down, with are unfortunate. no much, most of inflation not years parts that put faculty "Well, experience other is is they're had My policy merit say, We've couple last that will all." at years university faculty shot on in constantly short-sided the RB: members terribly done EC: department." I think of Thursdays, you ought tenure. and he'd to Cal run 70 be politic, Rampton into Sam but look golf played Rich at on the the on golf ROBERT BLISS #4 course, about he'd tenure what Sam's say, at "Oh, that problem was Thursday on total misunderstanding got or of do Well, whether mornings to he or whatnot, the reason something I don't had a but know class there and the to is a purpose tenure. And, of course, isn't review that makes thing? Even though not going to it it that be To me there just What you I think a and you continue. problem. on, go of hundreds for wrong politically) or with the regent. the Make actions is they've has are tenure, sort he's of just without more honest some of with or the real administrators who needed to 7L and him the on needs to AAUP through being fired in their field unpopular were or legislature, the what than job members that positions taking of tenure of (either taking for ways him document faculty at letting and with discussion getting good very deal certainly can of increase is real clear that ways a doing salary do president, problem not a or overcome honest There incidences causes post-tenure performance? is him giving not to this indefinitely more person the saying are of person there problems. individual part harder performance--adequate a we've university." teach of EEs and reason have failed to is. not deal with Part of taken the with the ROBERT BLISS #4 problem. RHE: Well, we're there one to RB: make Oh, I just or about two out more we finish. guess I'd like my people, to twenty-three Frustrating, tape, statements before enjoyed of sure; students, that say at enough and Bob. you that years not again would I've Utah care actually very money, certain Are much. sure; but opportunities, marvelous. EC: You have some I other that I into my have my I a not regular limited. Of course, you in you've been regret, if personally doubt the demands really did what I Heritage involved in. even is a been able to produce Maybe don't office have not I'll regret, do want time to get much of back which do is great so are to is more situation the are Foundation administration of think it that--I professional in the architecturally. really so that events only field that. EEs participation movements suppose in much significant and RB: had as you liked. RB: oh, I [laughter] do know building It's that haven't they guess if a small I had buildings school, been or 2 more houses that terrible. comfortable size. been a active or I professionally whatnot, of the ROBERT BLISS school good R #4 heads architects, well, or Frank Lloyd Well, thank tape we'll It's We're that and have but changed, or Wright's you, so I done the that they schools developed, school. Bob. thank see that you get very nice of you OF TAPE I a to have or--and we're for copy ask AND 73 not quite run that very includes practically giving of me your this. to do honored. [END been [laughter] see you have INTERVIEW] this. out time, of and