Tim Begue, Salt Lake City, UT: an interview by Greg Smoak, 29 April 2014

Transcript (35 pages) of an interview by Greg Smoak with Tim Begue on April 29, 2014, in Salt Lake City, Utah.

TIM BEGUE Salt Lake City, UT by An Interview Greg 29 Smoak April 2014 EVERETT L. COOLEY COLLECTION Great Salt Lake Oral History Project U-3255 American West Center and Library Special Collections Department University of Utah J. Willard Marriott Salt Lake City, Utah THIS IS AN INTERVIEW WITH TIM BEGUE ON APRIL 29, 2014. THE INTERVIEWER IS GREG SMOAK. THIS IS THE GREAT SALT LAKE ORAL HISTORY GS: PROJECT, Good morning. TAPE No. U-3255. It is Tuesday, April 29th, offices of the American West Center and Salt Lake Oral we're going to History Project. talk shrimp industry. Thank you very much. GS: I'd like to start with a TB: Sure. Well I eventually, Lake when I City when moved out here I was was was as a us on the on born in so folks know where you're from, family, education? Paris, France. seventeen. My grandparents to the United are you're coming So could you States, and then finally ended up in Salt My father got a job here in Salt Lake City, TB: He worked for Abbott Laboratories. And Abbott Laboratories bought Research, Jim Sorenson's company. He started Deseret Pharmaceutical with folks. So I basically stepped off the Highland High School, College kind of during that and so we family. What kind of work did he do? Westminster so French. And then I GS: ended up at lake, and today. where four, moved the Great lake, and specifically the brine experience with the lake more specifically. yourself: little bit about Smoak and we're at the early brine shrimpers little bit of background from. Then we'll go into your us a ofthe experience Good to have you with Greg today I'm interviewing Tim Begue for the one little bit about his a TB: tell Tim is 2014. I'm plane in and and did four and time, while I was a Salt Lake City when I was Sorenson some other seventeen. I graduated there in '80. And then I went to half years there, got two degrees. And it was at Westminster that I started 1 working on the river; I Tim Begue river was a 29 guide in Colorado, down Cataract April 2014 Canyon, Desolation, Westwater, and then eventually Grand Canyon. GS: What TB: Mostly I worked for Colorado and companies little for a really, River and Trail outfit out of Kanab called Grand MacKay, Dave actually kind reason an did you work for? of got and he asked who us the owner started. I went me about it, and this brine was if I'd ever teenagers we'd take the boat your were out and cruise out to a degrees little more play when I your TB: totally different And I said, "Well, I know 'cause my dad had Stansbury Island a sailboat and a so as for the weekend and was a little information, what you got at Westminster? sailing on the lake - marketing. [laughs] I mean, that's interview with the commodore of the What that So I guess they came into started the business. So in GS: one Lake, and did I know anything about that. Just to back up for Small business management and TB: a he is the like that. Let's talk GS: the Great Salt there," little for Moki Mac, Trail, day for shrimp harvesting that was going on. little about it but not much. I've sailed out things to his office one on a Canyon Expeditions. And it was of Colorado River and over been Expeditions, your very first thoughts fascinating thing. We've done club and the harbormaster out there do you an as well. remember, with the lake? And what were about it? Well it of mine, Curtis fourteen foot experience, yacht a was the early '80s, Doubek, and so the lake Curtis and I, sailboat, and my dad had we was quite high. would just jump a, I think it 2 up was a And I had on - he had nineteen foot - a a and good friend little we would Tim just throw in some literally camp were food and water and often I wouldn't do it that Did you TB: Oh on now crawling GS: over the beach in the encounter any big during ten years an anchor and wade in. It were of brine able to save shrimping And so, when you came kind of crazy. and black widows and stuff scorpions summer. one time could hear the we was storms out there? We cracked Curtis's mast yeah. let the sheet go and lake would just sail out to various islands. We could because I think back of all the all ever we beach, just throw the We had too much sail up and GS: April 2014 29 Begue there, a pretty strong gale. snapping of wood. And luckily we just the mast. But out coming back in yeah, some we saw some out here when you were big rollers. And of course big ones going through. seventeen did you go out to the early on? Pretty early. My dad TB: before he went and bought was a a used sailor, and he loved boat, found it didn't transport the boat back and forth think we went over we on a to sail. We weren't here very trailer and got it up, got just plopped it into the left it there for several years until '83, '84 when the lake the breakwater and we had to go grab the boat and pull slip a slip. long We and left it there. I came up so it out. That high it might've been the end of-I can't remember if we put it in after the marina got hammered. But it was a lot of fun. It's no one out there. GS: Because see a so lot of those boats? an amazing place because it's many parts of the lake places. So where were are so 3 close to so many isolated and I guess the main Antelope? Stansbury? so places people but there's sailing you get to you would go with those little Tim 29 Begue TB: Mostly Stansbury. believe we ever there's just not a we went up the coast of Antelope where you good. few times. I don't in there. And they're kind of exposed. It's weather all the storms. So you kind of have to go when can But there's coves tip of Stansbury, some great hiking. And we were kids just kicking around there, having fun. So you worked GS: as a guide river and then it introduced to the brine shrimp industry. reading about it, more - a But if you go all the way to the north great little beaches and cove the weather's over camped there. some perfect And April 2014 is that working on the river in basically a I have a So our couple all person and then summer of boats. I'll river, which something came I think I've noticed in out of a seasonal type of employment going out and adding to it, because this is MacKay originally said, he said, long but it's sitting idle original thought process wherewithal then to go the And that's through that work that you got occupation. provide the out there and learn how to catch use on one And that's what Dave equipment that we use perfect." summer fall and winter Exactly. TB: than was buy all are egg." "I have all this all winter and it would be with Dave was, he said, "Listen, I have gear. You go out and find out what's And so the stuff. And rubber inflatable that so was a truck. going on great because I didn't have the basically we took out equipment that we surplus military craft, and with twenty horsepower mere engines. And it was ridiculous how underpowered we were, but that's what we had. And so we threw it was on Carrington canvas hunting tent, GS: Yeah, the spring bar. Island. It like a was together and we literally ... The first winter actually an island back then. Kirkham's. 4 And we we spent brought out a Tim Yeah, TB: standup a bum wood and keep tent. And it had the tent morning we would hike up lake and we we could would take a boats, and we'd It see GS: And what year TB: '89. I think it GS: Okay, down a so it was on across the more was was was that, the were so very first a able to Carrington Island. Every out the five-dollar compass, and We'd run down, get in the out and find the egg big that you across [laughs]. could find them. year? the winter of '89. after the lake had risen and everything-Hat was still its way back down but it in twenty, find we now it was starting to come back was patches days, as island, Carrington was still an still up pretty high. And that were so the slicks of brine we just had shrimp so So who was were much we an island. So would just couldn't go around the egg and even was so and more run dent them. I small we would be done we couldn't carry it. And then in eggs got smaller and smaller and there competition we would have to spend more trying to get the big we we could carry and harvest at that time thirty minutes, time. You could was­ spend hours egg. out there? You mentioned competitive business today. who would take so we around, and then follow that heading biggest-we would sometimes GS: out on we were top of the island with binoculars and look literally put the boom in the water and booming the old literally slept little-so reading from the top of the peak. mean, the amount of egg that would a little bit. Yeah. And TB: yes it to the we streaks of egg. And compass come And warm. little stove and a just lucky that back then the slicks was April 2014 29 Begue Who out there when you were some arrived, who competition. of the other were 5 I know it's companies a highly and other individuals already doing this type of work? Tim 29 Begue Well TB: probably the biggest you mentioned earlier, he started after adult brine company out in I think it was '54 '55. And he or was Yeah, he did, and froze them and sold them to aquarium enthusiasts. TB: Exactly. And people who Snowville was I think it was probably in the - started and I'll back up in just weren't going leasing land. was egg, they out in boats So the way a minute all started - they had collecting So a to and started So the other players was owned Bensley. by Mike - was so going out into so a big operation. egg that blew in they would Sanders, And so even along the set up. And lease the so by when shore. So they they started shoreline, and that from the shore and then drop they would just literally shovel on the lake and Ocean Star - the shore. And catching another big Swenson of Salt Lake. Western Brine And let's see, I'm it's still owned much egg, and when it did blow in it get it into bags and get it taking boats owned, and I think an anchor, little basin where the egg would blow in. And of course ridiculous how much would arrive. And then they could Another company out of they started doing it was they would back then it worked because there whatever big. and then reconstitute it. when Sanders and Simon Gao at Ocean Star early on to get it. catch, little a was they would string boom their spot. And then and try to make actually somebody finally realized dry it and package it Ocean Star International. And it collecting '80s when out there were, Sanders was were Simon Gao. I think he is from China. And they as shrimp. that you could catch the egg and you could . Sanders out of Ogden. And of course, was GS: So the April 2014 trying to 6 or do then, they started egg before it went to shore. one was Shrimp, think of the others. The it was Tillys Golden West, that that was ... Betty out of Kaysville. Tim Begue 29 Anyway, there was probably about companies seven when April 2014 MacKay and I started reconnoitering the lake. The first few exploits do you equipment on and off? move out there were very where you couldn't go in. So areas It we exploratory: was very difficult because they hadn't tied it up. because there was And the marinas something places ended up at strange Strongs Knob and Lakeside, Rozel Point, ended up at How do you get were not up on friendly to about the marinas that on the lake? How they basically tied up like Lakeside. We Promontory, anywhere brine shrimpers they said there was no where back then commercial activity allowed. just recreational boats GS: So TB: Mm-hm. And Eventually we when but it did TB: We had and then was a the marinas. a finally ... So probably in business '91 we TB: The river operation. a going to split. letter to So he Well we in with all these boats. I can't remember how out of Magcorp, had to build I continued to work a was an or our own. But yes, eventually, together, amicable right? so split, but that was I could '89 and see '90, that there really nice business. was more everybody who start a company. I'm being part of this new people operated And it here; he already had operation? I sent out some MacKay and The river "I'm coming us Something changed there; really nice marina. GS: so they wanted. they were not kowtowing to Magcorp' s marina, And we use all finally changed. GS: when so was was willing to just kind involved with going to incorporate, our oflet little things operation on. and I And said, and if you have any interest in company you need to show up at this time and this 7 go place." So two Tim people showed up, and they were my partners Nangle of Salt Lake City. then we So we formed our Marina, worked there for several which Magcorp, was each year. And then creating a we drop had to Yeah, that sounds maybe . like it. To I think in Artemia, and or not there finally got a than the south and it's shrimp are And get-he was able to get snake down this little anything. But there even more a a full camp there with operations there, a and though, was a through channel into and generator, a we at the South and thousands had It was kind of a minute and whether high water years, long did that so or not because it right we south private of way from landing strip. So was we 8 camp food, and we big deal. Rozel Point, up in the salinity you're going to get the was arm then, all the companies had a less saline that you go on? high in the so tied up in road, and all lease building, dredging the back up just actuality the water was production. had of all the finally ended up that it were in time. And it's very difficult to get to the north because it's able to Joe little bit about how-I know the fluctuation in a it because of the so was there wasn't great point Prime was they charged thousands money into could operate in the north arm? How TB: Strong and Jim worked out of Rozel, in we we day, something like that. could you talk really effects whether eggs. And a care And then we we And then I mean, little marina space. But probably sixteen people north arm, seasons. quite expensive. manager who cooked and took GS: company, which worked out of-the first year we cooperation with a guy named [Keith] Tilly. fed operation: in the took off from there. Originally, then April 2014 29 Begue leases. And a so landowner, too low, so up in the north at that even more remote through Tilly we were and beach access, there was we were was no had trailers set up. We were able to marina or able to land a Tim small our 29 Begue plane in there to boats from dropped the go and spot for the egg. And the washing ashore is we the water and cement in just made these giant we oil jetty that is just to the east of Spiral down cement could really keep moorings and then would tie the boats to that. So how close is this to the actual Rozel GS: only way we April 2014 Jetty? Point, to the Spiral Jetty, location, Is it in that exact and there's that or is it farther Promontory? Spiral Jetty. TB: It is south of the GS: Yeah, and that map- [looking and then the oil jetty's on a right up here. And you think the TB: And GS: Yeah, you TB: Okay, so we were GS: So that's where that Rozel Oil Field can the Jetty's right there here. over so we were Lake] map of Great Salt actually see right there, sticking just to the north of the was Spiral Jetty's right here? out on the map. Spiral Jetty. They had out there too. some of the drilling in the' 60s. TB: was be Yeah. And that metal really there. It was scary at things poking out. careful was ridiculously of egg. We was very cold that winter. It slow boats. We just swamped him. we lucky we had a before motoring around there. actually caught And That night when you were driving He just had a guy, were so landing strip was end, often well below a can't deal with it college we had zero. lot of egg and much egg that the guy who old rubber boat and there had radar and all that But the north bringing in said, "I an we a stuff, some We wild times up were we were had to so we operating these able to catch originally agreed to a buy it, lot we anymore." friend of mine, who was our pilot. And it was there because he would go find the egg and then he would 9 get us on it, and then he or It interesting. And then the and were following And so, you first TB: Mm-hm. GS: But you kind of thing were also Well there was a conveyor belts. We've would call him back out later. It worked out. pretty sure we using, seen our basic concept sue was it all. And to use a into the it's just a film. And then you there were pumps; there everybody tried two boats with That's the to patent were vacuum a lot of these to be careful of what you use to idea of items; things. So used, because approximately eight hundred you're closing it, the slowly start to pull ten inches thick to between, get the slick of brine shrimp you'll push egg is And then at that only the boom a And then and eggs to when you thick, tighter and tighter. bottom, so you really finally you'll get the egg to depending on what you have. 10 point, a sixteenth of an inch tighter the egg out the gingerly with the closing of the boom. about, oh, six, eight, spills. patent infringement. And you can't do it too fast because have to be the river? siphons, conveyors? use boom, and then close the boom. thousand feet out and on operations, and everybody had their own thousand feet of oil containment boom in gradually move you would've used eggs. What other kind of equipment did you skimmers; you for the south right back down to I assume, oil slick booms to control oil lot of different were went by Kennecott. using basically what got further involved in the industry you had somebody might try to have we eggs out of the water? Did you how to get it out. There But year I'm you'd use to corral the actually get the as we were go have just land the plane right on the strip there, of the South Marina, down operating out GS: TB: able to was whatnot in the trailer. And then coffee was April 2014 29 Begue Tim And what it appears to look like is wet sand. If you took your hands in it and just in wet sand at the beach. And at that along side of a pump boat. And impeller pump, people would hose the intake and on maybe was And then what discharge the now you would have is either down into the egg and bags. actually have to And were over so once reconstitute bring the water up. you'd have It has to flow. So they drain fill the That way when out and some so bag up, we working slurry. let it drain, fill it up four Everybody was bags, shut it different. We How did your setup surplus river rafts towards funnel that bags, so you could water and it consistency of frozen yogurt, We would try to get that you can slurry just fill them up once at and done. If you have too much water then you have to again. And so we would had four to six valves set up, and then we'd have to on a kind of manifold the top of various you're filling up the bags, they're pretty much funnel, or TB: optimum. or an you'd just take literally a rake it, But you also want it to be able to flow. a a pull so GS: would call it you stick that down in the egg. And you would want it about the we digging diaphragm pump a 2014 you start the pump, then the egg is You don't want to pump too much water. GS: you'd end of the pump it would go up to ideally. boat a stabilized, type of implement, and take the egg and just slowly jostle it in the would the of have it like often call 'em trash pumps. And you would take you'd run the hose then control the flow into the some we foot square attached to the handle, and a on so dug in it would be point in time you kind setup where you would have valves that dried out April 29 Begue Tim down, pick it up and move it saw some literally have, move over it. So I think on our you'd be to another four bags. really interesting- change over the years? I'm probably better boats, better 11 sure gear. you moved away from Tim 29 Begue faster, yeah. Better and TB: rubber boats were replacement. And brine So by the military, made shrimp bags weigh built out of California would a fifty miles an or then the third boat was a permit. a quite That's TB: Yeah. So a bit So our was a boom more our so was a boom, boom. And then now whenever your or they had radar, they had longitude, you have a way point peripheral sure no possible typically theory that more-it's like pull a in the boom. And one was typically horsepower per boat. plane was GPS. The and you go there up looking for pilot would radio as quick plug it in, as you can. following because !hey'd plug the a scout boat, the first thing you competition's coming in to try to typically have the pilot tell is. You want to know where the best go to the make a here's your latitude." You'd coordinates in. And when you first got there with obviously, had were we horsepower outboards. same So you we cargo boat. And that you got there then the other boats would be patch. company, you could stack up, once end of the lot of weight. And wet speedboat that was capable of going Then one a boats had four to five hundred "Here's your want to do is scout around hold boat, which really looks than those twenty egg, the scout boats would go out, boat, capacity to monohull, and it was the typically in the morning, down to the scout original application was bridge particular One boat flat deck boat, very stout aluminum boat. All GS: great, because the switched to aluminum hulled boats that Washington. house, a a we hour. The next boat houseboat without were lot. But, the rubber boats just don't go very fast. So after three boats per run and their these rubber boats had the so got done using the rubber boats we originally the rubber boats April 2014 you where the meat of the take patch start is. And if no one's around you could and work back towards that. And then the boom boat would show up about the time you got done scouting out the patch. 12 And at that point in time you'd Tim 29 Begue determine which way you want to move, which way the current's wind's our going. And rigs then you'd layout all your boom. would switch from the we would have and to make patch quickly, And so about this and skirt, oh, it's to that get there and closings basically stake certificates of registration. And you stake that TB: so use and all that, the we trolling motor to just so we move pull didn't on the a a kind of shocked, I was fifty miles that did claim because ofthe claim for a inches an deep. was thought, hour and I permit system, three-hundred reading the yard radius around buoy? Exactly. you could would just And you didn't drop keep like that. And so it it. It had on other side or yes, the want to a necessarily have to drop float and your boat in heart. You'd want to sit patches a in all shapes as a and sizes, and The buoy was to you, you would golf course now guy's so or you'd your radar, to find out how many way too close." 13 use a set up it, but typically you predator would approach all sorts of different ways to determine. And after could just look and say, "That buoy. flasher and all this stuff on And then try to get in close use on a a the very visible spot, up in the radar arch came right there. had range finders like you was would and I - people were using boats to point in time, fifty horsepower engines, though it was twenty-five even speedboat the purpose of the saw our so we and which way the going, And then at that 2014 pulled the boom too quickly or did anything funny the because if you egg would just go underneath the GS: big two-hundred horsepower trolling motor, ten a in and around the boom too so April something go for the from the some people yards. while you just had an So there eye, you Tim GS: So what was the enforcement mechanism when Could you call the state? Did you Or did you just was yell going to come Rarely did we call, out to to this person and say, yards that help "Hey, use can mean, you your can people'd plane complaint with someone? are thing way in the area, nobody so I would do is just drive the boat closer, you need to move over off a hundred scream, and say, "Oh was sitting there can. and he right up came in and he's to his boat and just But it's very difficult because you think And oftentimes you have two guys in two different and - they're watching the whole thing from we did all those. There you've obviously infringed So how often did this GS: a nobody was I'd just go take the boom it and tried to take what you plane, yell, you. The first you guys right, they think they're right. their because the boom. So if! only two hundred yards out, - Did you file close? way." And if they wouldn't do that then basically whoever's boom boat got there. So then I would scooped photograph it? somebody came in too 2014 at them? All of the above. TB: April 29 Begue happen? the season? I guess the season's short Was it so an was lawsuits and we're gonna everday occurrence, I guess this could happen a planes above. And things over sue you're so you like this. I you." once a week during lot with this competition. Well the TB: was actually, season I think it caused most of the would only let you there. And then could be four was ... problems fish in months, that's what it ended up-in the late it could've been five months. And I think what is the original system was daylight hours, so every morning they finally went twenty-four hours, sunrise, on a it really sunset. So rat race and that just ended conflicts, because people didn't-early on I remember times 14 was a we were a '80s it to they get out lot of the coming out of the Tim 29 Begue marina, we would leave the marina at 4:30 am, go out eighty boats, to fifteen airplanes, dark, really watch yourself, yelling, here!" there People would come out So how did it work at GS: boats just was daylight would as soon as everyone night would have to have visual. At seen during the day that you had Early on, yeah. TB: spotlight pointing came was a color night vision. can say is I'm up with it. And 1 think that looking And 1 was was a thousand bucks. And 1 took it up in a at plane. a West we we So patches at out and we were if you don't have once started company the '95 a big streak over a plane obviously, they're sensors for streaks, so you something that had been a to on twenty-four hours argument season. literally drive it while we'd stumble going was speedboat with a over who and as patches you hit that way. that several of us actually was the first. in the top three as And it best year. We just killed it. was our far as the first that came M<:rine catalog, and they had a little night vision scope that was like, found out it night. They stuck out like just, in was an "I wonder if this It wasn't the most quickly pilots would be crazy. was any kind of high tech sophisticated monocular, whereas they had really nice versions. But was crazy. You had was there's tricks: You could drive your And there was And then there identified? change. sure our 1 mean, it you just continued to work was about that time when up with And all 1 So there everywhere. out the side of the boat. And you could egg there would be But it it night then, going by visual. They don't really have driving fast. they'd be yelling, "Oh, come [laughs] waiting for sunrise, April 2014 oh man, we ones was thing'll one because it with hoods and thumb. And would have 15 so was forty, fifty bags one, a the You could that first year bought just everything, completely adequate. a sore work." So 1 military see the we were going of egg in the boom and Tim 29 Begue people would be driving by first light just going, How did you find this?" And it didn't take might've been a good have a month a friend of mine feeling, or owns I'm pretty It might've been three weeks, word got out. There Artemia, and then Great Lake sure we were "How the heck did you guys get this? people long. Eventually the two. April 2014 our two was it companies­ company, Prime the first two to have it out there. And it and I - was a great year. on the industry, that did started. So did you and went around TB: At use number two in my bit of background research also, in in the mid-' 80s. So aircraft spotters from planes from the beginning, we did not. It went to Westminster airport, we was up at Rozel. And I had College with me. would rent get in the plane and he'd fly a And out there. And he would would take off. And that's how big, all he really had to we started. And that do was just get us would say, "Just leave Rozel Point and go 190 even have a ship's compass. We didn't driving these boats, And then it got back more and then, with more mine, Andy Wallace, who had dragger. or I guess at first not, spot And that plane was a even a 1956 [degrees] have tiller. And sophisticated. in the a all perfect because we 16 with a one more daylight. drive out to were, and we'd spot and then he But those vicinity of it. patches And oftentimes he for fifteen miles." And hiring cloth could land the-we over would just We ended up Supercub Chuck egg. And then he would land at structure so we good friend, hourly charges give us was a literally would we 172 for whatever the Rozel. And then he would go out in the afternoon and were so already there when you was Carrington Island probably. Carrington Collins, who come and that aircraft, And so, you mentioned GS: run wing, the were into the another we didn't literally patch. good friend of yellow plane, tail anywhere: Antelope Island, Tim Begue 29 Stansbury Island, And that the Fremont Island, Promontory. Any road, he could put it down. stress on pilot. point where it got you'd have one the spotter. So guy Was this to avoid collisions? TB: Yes. Because But as it got ramped up, be just focused pilot to early on there on who so busy we had to flying and GS: another guy weren't that many I would say about '95, it out in front below was or was or hire another person who communicating with the boats. planes just actually got to by Magcorp above. And it the point where Clover, who so was the out. pilot had to just too much for controls all the F-16s out and they got really close to the Clover "Alright, you're at six thousand, you're at planes stack the airspace, guy in the West Desert who would just start was a us-i twas people were spread and crazy. And bombing range, got involved with stacking us. They would there was do. We out strip, reduces, obviously, flight time, which reduces cost, but it also reduces And then it got to the the any April 2014 or stacking. sixty-five, you're at as on the they went into Clover airspace, He would just say, seven," and he would keep actually a godsend because- GS: This TB: The was military that was doing this? military was doing it to keep over-because, I can't remember a bunch of brine Well Lakeside West. And I know it extends TB: And controlling us would stack fishing in this area here and up into there. As us up. So that was from crashing exactly where the military range is. GS: we were shrimpers [looking at soon as we over a map]. went nice to have that. At least 17 the lake And a ways. they would be past Carrington Island they somebody was kind of Tim 29 Begue watching. And then I think avoidance stuff in their people actually, airplane, some TeAS I think of the they call pilots actually had April 2014 collision it. It sends off an alarm that tbere's=GS: Did collisions occur? Were there any crashes? TB: I don't remember any And there pilots really mad. somebody who was patch of egg. I They're like, on never "What a coalition of brine TB: There was kind oflike was what, permits, moderate the so But in on purpose; it had one, but I've heard of guys, are you doing?" ram lot about shrimpers, And "rogue pilot," just confrontation was a they would just get they would come over 'em out of the way. And competition but an as so there so on a frustrated. and just put their boat was organization? I understand you broken engines and a on anything: start and meeting, a brine whole bunch of cowboys in a the rules of the stop times. But his name was we Don were part of forming a Was there association that went on? definitely a-early on we started putting get any agreement And a some people [laughs]. So I read GS: close calls. I remember few, I think what they would call collisions, but most of those were this guy and just try to lot of mad was a were some really care what the rules were, they'd fly wherever they wanted. didn't boat There planes-there shrimp a room. association. And that Early on it was tough to road, how the boats operate, who does would meet. And Leonard, and he's we a had guy who would a consultant here in town. he would help get the meeting together. reality the biggest thing that we industry. I mean, that of biological reasons, was we really key. ever And a did as an organization was lot of people will tell you thought we were going to 18 to close the they did it because overfish the lake and all this, but it Tim was April 2014 29 Begue really mostly limiting competition, about because if you could take this and close the doors to entrance, all of a sudden your value as a industry like an company would go through the roof. GS: And this was in the mid-1990s with the moratorium that was placed on the number of certificates of registration? TB: Yeah. And that Because in it because and essence we we no one biological. was spearheaded by us. had to do it wanted it to be else could. So we on our own had to And I believe in the showing up, you back, it was a that GS: were So can you talk a own at a that had we nine, and Does that can a more was proud. going not to close could all make money reason was doors wide open, it lake out. It an I'm not was reason, and the seems like hour and all this just mop close it. But it it up. So in a really big equipment hindsight, looking definitely a benefit to the companies value if you want to sell your company. regulation individual company could in more detail, the certificates of own more than one, right? So how time? was said and done it had three. I think the Ocean Star mean up with little bit about the Three. When it all permits allowed, playground where we fifty miles clean it up. You an reasons, the state easily fish this boat that goes good thing they did I know that many did you GS: just little proud but long run if you had just left the involved. Now you have registration. TB: can a biological come would've been fished out. You could lake but when you have I mean, I'm was biggest locked up and there company was ... were no more I think it was Sanders might've had nine. you had three independent operations, those areas? 19 three sets of boats, to hit all Tim Mm-hm. So you could either put all three in TB: separate operations. The way we would like with every nine permit, so that it was more permits: They would run two they just owned, they just ruled they would and could up. So an didn't when on airplane as really led to adapt quick enough. to do it was mobile, more the lake and the beach. well, everybody had their forte, I think what on location, one we they would as far as what see think that really led fresh-after the downfall of a lot of the company. I think the co-op, as to the downfall of the whole companies go out there and you a big blow it would pile at. is that they Sanders, eventually they were king operation. are shore. And bigger companies set in their ways. I Ocean Star's still they're either the only company or one of two of today. Most all the on all these guys with four wheelers got in. And they didn't change quick enough. They were we the rest run they were good The Ocean Stars and the they had flexible. Like Ocean Star, They had you could you could do three or had three boats associated They would blow in and they would shovel egg. it from see April 2014 29 Begue that are a viable not involved in in the co-op, but I don't think Ocean Star has joined. GS: And when TB: Yeah, there the was the co-op formed? Was that after your time? was talk about it. I don't know the date. It's been co-op's been in operation for was different from what GS: detail we seven years now, at least it? How did that six, seven think years. And that had formed. Well to go back to that association and on ... going on-I come closing the industry, about? Did you send Did you have studies done? How did you get this 20 do you have representatives through? more to talk with DNR? Well, the Brine Shrimp Association kind of had TB: we 29 Begue Tim wanted to go. The state biological angle. And And as an part, on our consultant but a so was kind of going yes, there organization, lobbyist. And so we either have Don were a speak or actually the that it was a So are closing, lawyers small a lobbying for us more And so heated company and more there that got in with talking, was would some speak. So the DWR all the public meetings public and And we we down south. So would would have you'd have to finally the DWR decided And I remember. And at that are appeals. and then shrimp population. seeing that the doors big push to one City, there people. a And permit, limit that. so but there so same are point in time the closing and they're People, again, was they did it. definitely, I hired can lobbyists think of five they got in. seventy-nine permits today? GS: And it remains at TB: Seventy-nine, yeah. maybe one or two people was a owners so basically is the board of the DWR down in Moab what you meetings, and filed last minute companies to all these the way to go, and in Salt Lake was on go with the The state did several studies. had hired Don Leonard. And he lot of convincing and were some trying to get in. and just being done. studies sound idea to preserve the brine There doors some - cattle farmer who doing. was idea that this is the direction along with it but they had to would just continue to go to these to go to different locations convince we So he started needed to be convinced that this meetings. were an April 2014 So if you take the others, the majority are seventy-nine minus in the new Ocean Star and then co-op. And I think they're doing well. GS: And so they are basically split the proceeds, they split the small operators that catch. 21 pool their permits and then they Tim 29 Begue TB: privy to Yes. I'm not is, yeah, all the details. But the way I understand it 2014 April let's so say there's seventy permits, what they've done is reduced all the number of boats and planes processing equipment and you and can never actually own three have to process, check. So the you a this year's harvest And it's shrimp a people egg it a was that a but also are as in, I'm sure, one highs maybe you processing. pound, a TB: were different and can lows, and just have have to they just fish, send really well. I heard talk approaches a bit sure you a eggs one year for selling to there name they the co-op out of business. marketing, processing take place when were it according to supply and price that makes consistent about the more also the - I want to talk about you were same as that, involved? I know with harvesting - processing. I mentioned and in that sticks, weeds, ducks, selling brine involved in pound of brine shrimp shrimp hatchery owners for us, and for most Lake, a was So it would just go up and down How did the of harvesting, and I'm the Great Salt now of the benefits to the co-op, and to their customers, is that Yeah, definitely. Like processing, never So and then ten months later you could be that it's shifted some, but I know that there there and years have gone some well too because when I pound. money but doesn't squeeze And today, operation. have to market, the co-op does all that and six dollars demand. And I think GS: the Great Salt Lake very volatile. You could sell pound, take out those on one wasn't great. twenty-five dollars can never marketing device five dollars for CORs consolidated that all into was earlier, there equally as people, was was many in the fairly six, seven different methods processing. But the similar. You would harvest egg from bag of egg you would have foreign matter: shrimp, algae, it. There's crap in the egg. So the first and most 22 important Begue Tim thing to 29 do is remove all the sifting or screening. and was thoroughly in nice salty water. so And deterioration of the egg. And then so egg that's totally spherical, idea some dehydrate the dehydrated; a foreign matter, dehydrate people would air dry it, Artemia. And some by floating mining pieces of a coarser foreign matter, really well and then to wash the egg saw a shrimp brine basketball that's that little totally round people would by doing that you would just a the you would preserve the egg. You wouldn't want So if you the to either did it you could start at dented, almost like pushed your first into. was so egg remove was people by removing the foreign matter you would stop you want it you knew the egg microscope most to remove all the by salting the what you want to do is underinflated that you so of screens and work your way down. And the idea egg. And And You'd have these power, kind of like multiple layers that had equipment, foreign matter. April 2014 dimple under one was the egg. And then a hydrated. a So the lot of people­ freeze it. We would freeze it at Prime slow the whole process down and it would beGS: What kind of freezers could you use? How did you do that? TB: Big ones. [both laugh] bag in GS: I bet. So you put TB: Yeah. So the bag that was actually brought off the processed. a whole So you would take that, at once? you would dump lake would then be pre­ it out, you would matter, you would dehydrate it, and then you'd put it back into we used were a cubic meter, approximately. And bag. The they would typically be eighteen hundred pounds, somewhere in there. And 23 a remove so once it's clean we the foreign big bags that about sixteen to would put' em Tim in fresh a the 29 Begue sack, we'd put weight, a fresh tag and then we'd put it on on a it, the catch date, the date it was pre-processed, pallet and we would ship them off to, freezer facilities around Salt Lake. And then you needed the as you'd get a now product to run out you would add it some time you'd put that product. It And you'd bring it to your a Sweco, potassium permanganate, a at that you'd repeating this you'd bottom, float. And so now and then you slide it off to the side and process. Well sink to the put it into, like an that's your industrial get rid of all the hydrate, 'cause it's like manually screening machine. which is a so you'd hit a go in and as it it would just point in timer, and you'd just keep dense so heavy egg is going to good egg is going to go in there and scoop the bad egg off the top, sack, let it drain. And then most people would like a centrifuge. you only have so And now, much time You can't leave egg for hours and hours. So a in And And then disinfectant, water, because that fresh water's going sponge. And point literally in a six gallon plastic in a, freshwater, the spin cycle washer, out and then now it's gonna go into but a pallet egg from bad. So the good egg. The shell and the not egg into excess a that it's in good to good your want to processing. now you've got dump you'd juke it up big processing facility, you'd let it gonna try to do is separate again through so were going to be okay. was process to send to your customers, fresh water in it and bucket. And then dryers, on place. of the stuff off the-disinfect the shell of the egg. And then at that take start you're what thing would be to comes it. You could sit truckload of frozen egg, thaw out. And first on there would often occupy twelve-hundred we spaces. We'd have hundreds and hundreds of bags in this time you could just sit April 2014 dryer. And there are probably the most popular dryer used by most 24 now boom, you to make the egg by the time you've you spun the water several different kinds of all the brine shrimpers was a 29 Begue Tim [Red Ball 56:07], deep, long. fourteen feet either in forward spin a tumble And it dryer, or reverse. And on so a you'd long drum that was open up the hatch the inside of the drum the egg couldn't get out. After you loaded up you put in four hundred, five hundred - lock the lid on pieces of steel then it would it's now screen drop pounds air in on of egg in there - the front, you'd real fine mesh screen, I can't remember - wheels that could exactly how much you'd load it in, you'd it would start to tumble. It had little actually lift the it. On the back end of the blowing hot was a on egg up, just like your dryer would be a twelve to dryer heater, a fins, little at home, and blower. And so there, and then the moisture in the air going through the fine and then out into the warehouse. was TB: so now that stick out to Was this GS: that the front. And diameter, and about four feet in basically was in the wet egg, and literally throw so which is April 2014 built There original idea, something that was built for commercial laundries, specifically was a for the brine guy in building. it something shrimp industry? Ogden Redball Welding, and he started or was And he built don't know how many he built. We had three or a I believe it was Simon Gao, had the bunch for Simon, and he must've-I four of them. But almost every company I knew had several of them. GS: So you would use processing facility was TB: Yeah. GS: And TB: Mm-hm. own was commercial storage facilities in terms of the freezing, but your your own? that pretty standard in the industry? Yeah, there wasn't much cooperation early on. So everybody had their processing place, their own packaging place. 25 There wasn't much sharing going on [laughs]. People thought they had even today you could get a dozen brine guy's because we than the next secrets or a special shrimp comes out of the dryer then how is TB: So when it comes out ofthe dryer it is, pound cans, so would like liked it. And these And so as the store those to So or a were vacuum came get enough a can was an can at a we down out ofthe line. And cases. you'd put twelve better was clumps was dry seeds, out. And then most the most popular shipped? very people had for the end a fine, fine users. one They dessicant in it. for ninety percent, and then you had eighty-fiveso you'd a blending and testing. end up into bunch that doing these blends fairly automated canning line. Early on we had all-the scale a a vacuum was built to the point where right in there, it would it come sealed and then it would go down the case, it would be taped up and then in pallets of And then you could fill containers. farmers, right, a one was And then it's cans let's see, it's like and then sealer, and then we finally got boom, it was So the end users, GS: a vacuum hopper. packaged order. And then you got into an everybody had time and sure would put it in barrels. And oftentimes we'd have to bunch of dry egg that automated line, size, it sealed cans, most of them would have to make mixes. And then most fish out it to get any seventy-five, but your order was single on again sift small coffee dry egg you'd have was a And I'm did this." So when it so we things. to say, "Oh no, our egg owners GS: seeds. And way to do 2014 April 29 Begue Tim pound quantities can by the a you're around the world even, over-it to feed time seems in the business, are essentially commercial growing shrimp mainly. counterintuitive. It commercial farm. 26 seems like And so they would they preferred want large Tim Exactly. Well, TB: can 29 Begue has a lot of feed in it. In four grams in a pound. they had don't have a storing them was a a long way. So pound a one gram, and there's four-hundred and can was in Thailand and in the shade in go lot of feed in that little perception that that refrigeration they fifty gram of dried eggs there could be two-hundred and one So there small are so eggs eighty-thousand cysts per to two-hundred and because shrimp brine April 2014 a room. a And stout, it lot of these so can. But I think was vacuum places, so fifty­ they did it sealed. And they they're literally just they want the packaging that's gonna last and be the best for them. And you're right, hatchery owners. lot of it a And so was there's for a fish, but the majority of our distinction between the along the when you go to Thailand and you travel down On occasion you'd oftentimes the to a find somebody that had hatchery was just kind distributor in Thailand would then distribute the use and brine a shrimp; female weeks that a and he's hatchery and or the so Philippines and the next can - he's dump 27 shrimp And - so farm. themselves, but would sell, typically, wherever, and that distributor running ones exactly shrimp. eggs, you the a hatchery has doing is he has trying to get them to reproduce. I can't remember shrimp we thing you know you have to introduce brine of brine product to to his success. So what he's getting seed, to about or shrimp and the farm. So, farm all to a the guy who's just full of millions of baby shrimp, the they get up pound Ecuador key ingredient old, they're going one or a were there, there could be coast of a separate business. So product out. And reproduce seawater and it's And when it's shrimp he gets them to hatchery and most hatcheries would then sell their multiple hatcheries, customers a big tank you and I are it into the a male And so of warm gonna eat. the larval stage, it's in a to a couple separate tank, you take warm seawater, and 29 Begue Tim eighteen to twenty-four hours baby brine shrimp, and now later it hatches. Now you have what's called you're going to harvest all April 2014 nauplii, little and baby brine shrimp those little you're going to dump 'em in with the other shrimp, and they're predators, and they're gonna eat all those brine just shrimp. And if you're a hatchery using brine shrimp, you're not going to be very successful. tried to replace it with artificial work. The key to brine shrimp, omega-3s, so it's a good food consumed in the water the bottom, shrimp, the water way. It's the GS: the reason now are I know you weren't in this Exactly. about fourteen stage into the it's so good: you have water not as important. ever business, but used in that It's high in protein, or do. They've it's high in column, it gets man-made feeds tend to fall to whereas the brine quality issues, It doesn't days. next once in tanks and what flows impact it in quite the same a once or shrimp get past that hatchery they're just using-·they're just through they eat. hatchery you're So there's kind of this critical stage. And then the farming phase, So I'm gonna guess in gonna be sold and those little gonna period to use brine shrimp get them through shrimp, fry, are a for larval big enough, they're put into big ponds. Then after that it's all artificial feed. It's either literally throwing it out of the which just shoot the feed out But like I really hard to perfect feed. basically keeping them guys you're not feeds, tofu, rice bran, all these things, but it just doesn't column, whereas particle feeds quality issues stage, is brine shrimp TB: It's and source, and it's alive. So it's in the water ammonia, it creates owner over bag the or sometimes you pond, can see automated feeders and stufflike that. It's said, using brine shrimp, it's the key to 28 success. a very short window. Tim Begue 29 Now what about the GS: marketing? Ecuador. Did those industries-I guess people in Utah. Or were You sold to as Thailand, to the Philippines, 2014 to industry developed here they approached the middlemen, brokers, people that there April you worked through? Did you direct market to those distributors in those countries? We did do TB: where we direct. thought it was well. And then And some we a shrimp but they do they have industry, small but it good product when fish: was sea first we were and it's stable and got into packaging. Then first trade show our Early on, we sea knew it a our was product to testing couple trade out shows. Europe they don't do so much bass, things of that nature. And when fish, fry, they'll feed them brine shrimp. was a we going to started in the south of Spain. And in [bream 1 :06:30], able to get biggest Now it's not the pretty good market there. So that's where we dabbling started around. And then ... company, Ecuador I'm personally, was into remember. It is when we was ended up years ago. Our getting-we booming in shrimp production. And somehow big trying to we ended up shrimp meeting and he had And biggest break found they had a a for our guy in Ecuador. And lot of shrimp hatcheries. this guy named Heinz Grunauer. And Heinz's father big freezing facilities and he was moving seafood. So Heinz decided he wanted to get involved in the business. And he flewup here and was struck And far a deal. And eventually, as we started we were selling our product break. It was a big deal. sending him [laughs] probably, all I don't know, through Ecuador. And that container load after container load. Heinz And that price was really low. 29 we was was probably in the top where we got I remember back our then, three as main the price, I Tim 29 Begue just remember, was, I don't know, six, GS: So what TB: Oh, dollars a was the highest price qualities in just small pound. I'm sure to say upper thirties. And doing was So for us, a forty foot as a it went higher. trying to small company was pound, and he was just selling it employees once in And I'm people for the whole season, and then we people that would do had max a people would one ton at forty foot package, a contend but I want time. Whereas Heinz container every we were sixty days. struggling Probably about twelve to thirteen, in 1995. pre-processing long while, thirty-seven, thirty-eight sure gear up and we would bring on guys that could drive boats and bring on a to keep did you have max? I'm gonna say And how saw? great. TB: did the out at processing season another fifteen for the harvest. people that Magcorp. So it extend fourteen could was a beyond fly airplanes big and deal. the harvest season? Was year round kind of thing? TB: We would process year let's put it this way, we a they would usually buy like How many GS: ever Japan, to GS: So we'd you container. And he would do up with demand. But it a dollars [laughs]. out it seven April 2014 still had don't brine '95 know, it was nonstop, all GS: some we season a round, yeah. Yeah, caught enough you got were on the books, that we sold. moving semis out of that Because we 2000, had, I Magcorp plant long. So what got you out of the business? What made you shrimp enough inventory-well egg in '95 that when I sold the company in inventory that was lot of egg. We once and I'm ready to move on? 30 decide, I've had enough of Begue Tim That's TB: tough a one. energy that went into it. In the point where, as an and talk to em, and it ' just doing the one The other a moratorium came one along and Well, was a was work, first off. There lot of hard was a '95, '96 it started getting more and more competitive. you could finger out on the lake, it And then it just got so and wave to 'em and cutthroat that permits, go." had several good years leading up to it. We the value of the company went up. And then So I'd kind of had Do you miss it ever? TB: Sure. Yeah. trashed. And you'd storm would come If you on the Great Salt Lake the lake and you were on work really hard for in and you'd just go home and pressure would roll back eight, sure ten were were know, that I-I went and get to go boating around [laughs] not So what have you done since on you collapse one bought a for a few little things boat, But like I said you selling the company? were and then And then Let's a high go!" Yeah, I I did when I sold the so Lake, but days. go! out. Let's of the the Great Salt 31 working hard always days during high pressure in, and you're like, "Oh, back certain parts of it. But, ya company is I made GS: able to somebody beautiful, sunsets. And I miss the excitement of driving fast and doing that. definitely miss were enough. Yes, I do. I miss-sunrises just hard work. stop everybody was said, "Hey, we'll take the whole thing, lock, stock and barrel, give check. Here you was It got to salute to everyone else. And it just got old. GS: it lot of not fun anymore. In the old was actually drive by somebody enjoyable. reason was we on it operator going days, '88, '89, '90, '91, get April 2014 29 I still have anyway. a boat and I Tim Begue TB: Just farming. 29 dabbling really. We tried mean, the hops I haven't started any growing organic hops for two Where was the TB: Well it was a bought our garlic piece I'll sell it you about the TB: the a to know that get today. lake, that little bit It's five and one more of my that would always on area there was a actually places interest were trying to close it. of land right out pieces by the whatever you want to call that. go back up [laughs J. working in any place things that particularly surprised you people who extremely dynamic place-one of hadn't been out there one can take And coming up. was going up much land shows up. There booming along quickly how and down. It's were times­ time and I discovered that up in the a springs that just bubble up. cup and we were dip it right in there booming along and and we were And if you have freshwater in the boom you can't close it. You either end and try to And it an with the lake level in the lake where you trying to close the boom. a car on or whole bunch of underwater it's fresh water, there's that much could get IRA the lake. Well it's change with water, when I first discovered-we There's ... Are there amazing how quick that happens, and how Bay piece half acre several you learned about the lake in all that time out there? the contours of the land Rozel a They had bought up about the lake itself. If you're place pretty well. Well, surprising things things a real estate. more eventually. Maybe when land prices So, let's talk GS: years; that didn't work out real well. I of property that I ended up with that-the company that company didn't want any and still have it garlic farm located? of real estate. So I ended up with airport, We've done well, just marketing them didn't. worked out GS: big businesses. 2014 April was a pull it together and it wouldn't great day, ya know, 32 we were do it. And trying to figure out we were why we Tim 29 Begue can't close it. And you could "Oh yeah, there's On springs windy days it would blow free see it bubbling up. And then one April 2014 of the old-timers told me, all over." up in the north end there'd be salt, piled up And the bird life is on amazing some times when it'd blow the beaches it would be all so hard white, completely salt. out there. Of course you have the pelican rookery up there. GS: On Gunnison Island. TB: Yeah. Like I said, it's one venture out. You have all these sailors. I mean, And people No GS: really neat places people here and do stuff around the they don't. people get out the shore where you Island's where most people go to a lot of people get out there. And a few hundred boats out at the marina there. on can that far out. the water very much. And there's actually get actually see the lake, and the State Park Marina at the south end. But think a people out there. We have lake, but I don't think people really venture I don't think on that not too many nobody goes obviously there's several, maybe limited number of places Antelope of those a good look at it. I think and then Black Rock, beyond those two principle places, certainly not the north arm. It's a I don't really remote up there. TB: One time my business partner Joe and I, we drove around the whole lake We drove up to Lakeside and then up and around. And I can't remember, one day. what's the old town? GS: Kelton? TB: Kelton. Yeah, the graveyard up at Kelton. Locomotive [laughs]. 33 Springs. It took us all day Tim I did that last Pioneer GS: camped the 29 Begue lap over in a Day. I've done it by Crocodile Mountain over on a couple of times. One time I did it and the west side. But this last year just did big day. Yeah, GS: It is. And you don't TB: No. I didn't GS: So what it's a see many see people. anybody. are some of your favorite places out there? Are there hidden know you mentioned the north end of Stansbury Island has got there we day. TB: are April 2014 places that really you'd some like to return to just because of the gems? I neat locations. But place, not necessarily because it was good brine shrimping there? TB: Ya know, it's been a while since I've friends that have sailboats and the north end of Stansbury, time up on that had a Carrington kind of a there you could true see island, there been out they keep telling me along there, Island. I Ya ... even there's I've got to go some couple to bomb it, so when there were badgers all over, on of enjoyed my thought Carrington Island was really a neat island. know, they used badger, a sailing with' em. Yeah, real pretty beaches. I the remnants of shells. And I remember was the lake. I have on we And would walk around up Carrington, big badgers. when it And so was a you had to be careful about them. they got out there GS: I guess TB: Yeah. I'm know, a sure when it they could lot of the time when was on walk back low water and just walked out there. now, And Fremont you're brine shrimping out there was But, ya you to walk around you're brine shrimping it's all work. 34 neat. you're just working, get into this tunnel vision. Of course you get time off here and there little bit. But most of the time when always a You get up Tim Begue 29 early, typical day, over again. GS: But three a.m., you get up and yeah, yeah. Alright, well things that I haven't should know about the lake TB: No, just that it's a or are there other covered about the brine real diverse place. or mineral extractions. I mean, it Magcorp's doing the two lakes aren't seems and what mixing like starting all can think of that general, we time, is the but I don't think it is. here. And the really-I wish they would a over going on out there now, they're extracting out up one might want to shrimp industry? place that's invincible, a anymore, that's Yeah, they just closed that you And I think the lake in causeways up and get that to mix. But there's GS: things asked that you gonna be somewhat threatened with man, with what's What at ten and I've gotta get back out there. There you go, add to the interview, you're going to bed April 2014 mere fact that open the lot of powers that be- of the two culverts because of the way that it's subsiding. TJJ: But, it's GS: Well that's TB: You bet. I a neat a place, dynamic, nice place to and fragile. end. And thanks enjoyed it. END OF INTERVIEW 35 And I so enjoyed all my time out there. much for the interview today.