Janine Smith, Salt Lake City, UT: an interview by Michael McLane, 1 March 2012

Transcript (34 pages) of an interview by Michael McLane with Janine Smith on March 1, 2012, in Salt Lake City, Utah.

JANINE SMITH Salt Lake City, UT by An Interview Michael McLane 1 March 2012 Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans Oral History Project lA-51 American West Center and Library Department J. Willard Marriott Special University Collections Salt Lake of Utah City, Utah THIS IS AN INTERVIEW WITH JANINE SMITH ON MARCH 1, 2012. THE INTERVIEWER IS MICHAEL McLANE. THIS IS THE PROJECT "SAVING THE LEGACY: UTAH VETERANS ORAL HISTORY PROJECT." TAPE No. lA­ St. MM: Today is Thursday, March first, two thousand and twelve. This is Michael McLane. I'm here with the American West Center Saving the the Legacy Utah University of Utah. Veterans Oral Smith for the interviewing Janine History Project for the American West Center at And just to start, Janine could you spell your full name for us? JS: Janine-J-a-n-i-n-e. Smith-S-m-i-t-h. MM: Thank you. And, just of background on, urn, where JS: K so, I was born in Arizona, but we moved Utah. So I always kind of a jumping off point, could you you're from, where Price, Utah. And to seem as I grew up uh, a a little bit little bit of context. mostly-we moved a lot-so mostly Colorado, Illinois, Alabama, and Mississippi, and then back to to education here, so, this is you grew up, give us come back to Utah. And I've done most of my probably where higher I'll end up. MM: Did you go to CEU? JS: I did [laughs]. MM: So what JS: I'm are working MM: Ok. Urn, JS: I got my Associate's there in wilderness studies [laughs]. you on oh, doing at the my PhD in one University of Utah now? public health. important question-what were you born? Seventy nine. MM: I know I'm not supposed to ask that. anybody else in your family military? context, so, year one was of your parents in the Uh, military? 1 anyway, urn, so, again in terms of It sounds like you moved around a lot 1 March 2012 Janine Smith No, they were gypsies mostly [laughs] just moving JS: No. German engineering And he's a company and so that's part of the a My dad works for lot. reason we moved around so a much. coal miner. MM: Then Price makes what your rank is? You said JS: Air Force. So I was Ok, sense. so, can you just you're Air Force give us a little bit of information correct? enlisted for nine years, up to master sergeant. And I commissioned three years on ago-actually almost four years ago. And, I was was at Hill Air Force Base for those nine years. And then I got commissioned at McChord Air Force Base in to Washington, so do, but the mission's that's my unit MM: JS: on So I commute up very different up there. And Utah. So I've been there lieutenant. I put right now. for, it'll be four years in there, which is a lot don't have this mission here in we And, June. urn, so I'm a second captain in June. Congratulations. Yay [laughs]. MM: Can you-you said that the mission's kind of unique, more what that patient movement. Evacuation Squadron, So we're ADS. So our MM: Is that an air medical entire mission is care, whether that's out of the battlefield a you expound a little bit is, what the mission is? JS: We do pretty-it's can or it's to squadron. So we-Air Medical moving patients Germany, to a to the States. higher level So it's pretty unique and very sexy mission. exclusively a troop patient movement then, 2 or is there some civilian? of Janine Smith 1 March 2012 JS: We do civilians. And inter-theater what the rules are about that, but I've we seen do locals them on well. And I don't as the planes really know that I've been on over there. MM: K. Before we jump of military service in your JS: Not that I know of. MM: So it sounds like, too much into the actual deployment-so is there any history family? Maybe if I'm some like great grandpas, but no. doing the math correctly here, you enlisted when you were mid-twenties? JS: So, Powell I-right after [laughs]. high school, And I joined I did a semester of mostly to have school paid MM: Ok. And that would've been ... What year graduated in ninety eight, enlisted, JS: So I college was and I did for. I was a summer at Lake about nineteen. that? and then you do your basic training and all that stuff. MM: Where did you do basic JS: In Texas. And I training? was- MM: Is that Fort Hood? JS: Urn ... why am I blanking right now? Urn, Lackland. That's where all Air Force troops go. They may change that in the future. I know that they're rearranging how train our went in. troops to be more in line with the They actually have 'to compounds-they're making time to train them and on the doing the traditional carry guns them more Army, which now. smaller things they need to is very different from when I And it's very, very different. And the so that they have less-they have more train them and less time customs and courtesies and the 3 we marching, marching around which-I dunno-I 1 March 2012 J anine Smith kinda think we're at what JS: It was one of the things that kind of made the military was was fine. the basic My mom training experience for you? crazy was [laughs] so I can anybody screaming deal with at [laughs]. Ok, MM: after basic so training-basically, what was your role, past basic training? So, in basic training I had kind of a unique role. 'Cause JS: split you up our loss. That we are. MM: So how me a ... in your skill set, and my skill set what do you call it?-our unit 'cause it was kind of-we were or our art, was section, so I dunno what squad, in your women or I'm not JS:" Yes. Squadron." Yeah. Mostly women actually. I with, yeah. And help. There's we're lifelong friends. So, probably about thirteen other month we'll do a dinner or a was anywhere from a a the base is medically ready to deploy so is so I did medical there for the entire time. sure what the exact jargon was? mean, the they're trying to talk women that I worked back into me maybe once a coming to month or every squadron? a hundred and small, but their mission is patient-making Hill, basically what they do, that, was hundred and twenty to It's pretty exams call it for holiday party. squadron. did get activated it would be at of the Wolf Pack. And we were of us that still do like MM: How many individuals make up JS: So there you'd admin, medical admin. And admin for those nine years, at Hill Air Force Base. And I MM: Were there other to-they kind I made the poster, the banner for just in pods basically. So, then after that I went to tech school for have we or there's-it's a ground unit. somewhere in the States, and then medical 4 sure training. fifty in that that So everybody on they're-if they making sure-physical 1 March 2012 -Ianine Smith MM: When you enlisted dwell too much wanna so, but at that was a point in time wrestler in the rules and I Ok, MM: JS: the there any kind of surprise from friends and gender aspects but, we [laughs] was high school. like, "As a gotta backtrack Awesome. Mostly that was was equal two wrestling a And I did pretty thing. Well, I was coaches and fairly unique, getting less 'cause nothing sure I did good. And surprised my parents. I couldn't. So I looked up they told me was kinda-I did it was one was the wrestling actually in Phoenix, of' em was like, "Oh no, then, when I moved career? mostly because they told me my science teacher and he you can't." So to Price they had was urn, was­ to have I wrestled there. so they kinda told me the I had done it before. And I I And, in Arizona. sports for male and female, andthey didn't. And they got wind that And I'm so little bit then. How my favorite class. And he amount of I don't matter of fact, I can." couldn't. And so, the first year I did it I there urn, it's still family? at least. always been really independent JS: I've I on was like, "Ok, here same I am, wrestling again" [laughs]. MM: Doing that in Price in JS: Um-hmm. There was she was at particular-I was one female and she you was a heavyweight big it would be wasn't very agile, it in another was Michigan. wrestled And I couldn't find 5 a women are before and it's coach to take me. And she tried out but thought because hard for her. But I did get to go to women's never me. girl who her, which, it was harder because boys got my butt kicked, because I'd was was class under and she didn't do very well. I think she just easier for so wrestling men. were weight Lehi, that I knew of. And then the other-there was a And it assume she stronger and she nationals, and totally different. I'd raised enough I Janine Smith 1 March 2012 money to pay for tickets and with So, it me. MM: That's was boarding and everything one coach to go kind of more just to prove that I could do it. amazing. I would imagine-it issues around that in Phoenix-or where JS: In and I couldn't find seems were like there would be less issue, less you in Arizona? Phoenix, yeah. MM: Than there would be in the small- JS: It wasn't have all girl a they put me [laughs]. I There teams. I mean, it girls teams for big deal. and stuff. on a was usually one girl was just the was thing. coolest They actually put me-I team with these inner like, "I'm not MM: I can't think-I mean, city girls each team. But in on was And the they also only girl from New York. about women JS: I was-I made girl a in they make-whenever there's wrestling. I'm ruckus. 'Cause sure we that there together, and it mad." He was lot of boys forfeit and just-I had was matches going just really awkward, just telling me this awkward situation on. [laughs] scary kind of a of it. I can't remember There's gotta be. are. was breaking in the would, "Who's this quite the big deal. amazing. MM: Wow, that's a soccer from Utah They were traveled to do tours, and it wrestler" in Lehi and all these small schools. It JS: So, I had have cut out for this." gender barrier in Utah sports they always kind a make a big deal hearing Michigan they ever It and it was was andhe's one a tournament craziness. 6 ... like, "Oh, stuff [laughs] and I at guy so was there our headgear got my girlfriend's like-this was was like 'nine stuck gonna be the most wrestling Janine Smith MM: 1 March 2012 Ah, that's great. Well, that kind of independence and feistiness probably served you well in the military JS: No, it does. I think the reason maybe not the independence. especially with the medical squadron why I chose reserve whereas if you're active Well guessing. I'm is because you have duty they tell go. So I felt like I still had some you what control over some you're what I and choice being a reservist. And your over destiny, gonna do and where was doing and where I you're was And you just kind a-I hate this term-but learn how to work the system. And done-although duty, just being logistics. I've been on a was doing so it. I've reservist the whole time-I've done four years of active orders, doing what I wanted to do in different occupational health I've worked at the MM: This gonna areas. So I worked in clinic. I've done- all at Hill? JS: Um-hmm. And then I worked at the Warrior Fitness Center for a while and it was really fun. MM: Isthatrehab? JS: No it's a fitness center but it's a health and wellness center nutrition classes and fitness events for they had the women's over the world, from softball team. It was softball championship every branch of service as a MM: So did you have just they've never ... well. So I got to do very cool. And I for the armed forces. So came and competed was for women an did, urn, from all international neat. Neat experiences civilian. a single deployment then? Yeah, that was the only-'cause before but Yeah, it was very cool. So I got to be part of that. It that I couldn't have had JS: women. as at Hill you don't picked me. 7 really deploy. I've been on list 1 March 2012 Janine Smith MM: So what was this-what was the date of the JS: So I left in September, and then MM:· And that was- came back in deployment? Do you remember? February. JS: Oflast year. MM: Two thousand eleven. Ok. Urn, JS: So it had to have been twenty ten, in so, that so pretty late for was it's been a first longer than that. deployment. 'Cause I got married August [laughs]. And then I deployed immediately- MM: A month after the JS: Yeah. And just be wedding? we were gonna wait till I got back and it like, "Let's just do it. Let's done with it." MM: So how much notice did you have JS: was Urn, you know when you don't your bands are on the deployment? and when volunteer, you'll be "volun-told," and so you're gonna go. And, you're-if you just do it. And I knew that I wantedMM: "Volun-told." That's one I have to remember. JS: So I knew that I wanted to finish my semester before of PhD classes and I 'cause I had to take this band starts in a thought, I thought, this is a well-I had just taken good breaking point where May. PhD, got married, and deployed all in the My MPH. And then just started my PhD. MM: Ok. so I one can­ year off of school. And so, I just decided to go in that band. And MM: So you finished your JS: Phd, Nonetheless, that's impressive. 8 same year? 1 March 2012 .lanine Smith military as well. JS: And my husband's also um, they have some weird MM: He's Air Force JS: He is. He's a JS: To Afghanistan, MM: And was was deploy this round, but, gonna at McChord and so he didn't go. politics going on up well? flight nurse. So, where did MM: as And he And I'm you end up going to? southern to the there-what medical service corps officer. a the was province, name the Helmand Province. of the base or the installation where you were at? JS: Ok, so, I was a liaison and Marine base, called camp job was to teach' em how to an JS: Just fixed wing versus, wing. I was Dwyer, with MM: What's fixed so use our deployed by myself pretty much. an so air frame to get our And that's the other bases. So we're um, soldiers and sailors out. rotary. So the Army is rotary and we're-Air Force is biggest difference. We do have How that five other they deployed were even colonel, question. nurses You different. So was was a nurse were they were our now have had them done it with a a lot, few sister services. the sole Air ForceAFSC or they're, um, UTC. combat nurses, which is-who knew and then the working with me. 9 or they're joint basing they've two researchers there. major for the research, then, for my team there with And helicopters They were-they're there. existed. And then there one was a now. learning how to play nice MM: So that raises another was So my air frame? McChord is Joint Base Lewis-McChord JS: There was on a Army medical combat support hospital. in the past but pretty much that's kind of the structure. But and And I So, one was a nurses were both lieutenant captains. And 1 March 2012 Janine Smith MM: What were the relations like between the Air Force personnel and the Army and Marines? Urn, JS: we didn't really see the Marines 'cause they're boots to the ground So they were, basically it was transient, like, they were moving in and we hardly ever saw very thankful that them unless there. The we were when are they tell But my job questioning, why do me to do is, I kind a from the field. So, you do that, and they're trained to drug dealer, like, "This is what I can offer you. And what pimp our MM: I'm JS: going to that your and our job is to do supervisors logistics, urn, the administrative stuff goes, the get the money, to don't put it And I'm a like, "Really? lot equipment on the all your a non-flier in [laughs] or are a wanna nurses, know sure our IT we something flying squadron-it's are works, like, "What is are on an 10 to make sure paperwork, MSC officer. your job and to again?" why you have interesting-especially really different... at least mine. an some you're deployed, then they're like, "Oh, done." So, it's a have turned on, to do the why your lights aircraft?" But when this is who you call if you want being to make lights of, especially the Do you do. We go quite that way. get furniture. If you need something done, you call But, having said that, we can need. Oh, they totally do. Yeah, all Medical Service Corps officers, specialty areas, that, assume we so ok. Let's reexamine how this works." me," kinda deal. And I hate that term, but that's basically what services to get what so nerdy react. And you offer out time, they were the "chair force," we're kind of like the something I'm like, "Urn, am a us out all the Army, working with the Army was difficult they call us because of-the Air Force, people who they were coming to all the time. It stretches your tolerance 1 March 2012 Janine Smith MM: So, events like nine eleven and the invasion of Iraq and as in the reserves, urn, it sounds like you had occurring and you when you might be deployed were and what was earlier than you were? Did you have any JS: No. I mean, you just, living in Saint just worked JS: on deployed about any of that? As soon as "I'm just gonna nine eleven move happened, I was up there." And then I during the deployment, what-.how often were you that I saw seeing people from the field? Every day. MM: Primarily JS: Double or are .you dealing with lED injuries, triple amputee was mostly what I less than that. Sometimes health at Camp Dwyer. month mark is when no bit better handle do whatever. MM: Gotcha. Urn, so, coming in were forever, just doing-either working in the squadron or wherever the base they needed me to concern a like that Did you expect to be happening. you're always ready. George, and I just thought, on things color. You're psych. And so, the people never And the psych start to lose or saw. what It a guys care JS: No. something basically said about the six and seven it, because it's really difficult. It's very-there's alone. The noise is just tremendous, a 'cause everything's run on bit of money to go live in long time. MM: So what kind of-were you direct was rare Navy were also there. They were the public generators. It's filthy. It's just, like, they pay you quite poverty for was- largely administrative then or were you providing to-· Well, indirectly I guess. department of transportation, we So, my job was call it JPMRC 11 to use-it's like-think of it as the [Joint Patient Movement Requirements 1 March 2012 Janine Smith Center], and they have flights every day. eyesight is basically how we get flights lose one of those, then MM: Ok. And I we can get them And so people who were-life, liver, if we had for them. Ifwe can gonna aircraft within ten hours. on an they were generally taken back to assume justify that they're Rammstein somewhere in or Germany? JS: Usually Bagram the life JS: Oh so you aren't yeah. So, come-we were three trauma like were do an eye right bays. like on the halo pad, which, field and line, the Army would do as soon as a you an would eye it face with was a a We would to database kind bring line, if they paperwork process then, depending like, "Will we they came in, medical... it's organized. not. And necessarily dealing face to We would-sometimes I would then I would start the very first, and then Germany, based within fifteen minutes of getting hurt literally off the in. And then more Kandahar on where they were in cycle. Urn, MM: or the battlefield on level one 'em in to get kinda had so everything's guys? they would trauma center off. triaged. an not so we And And idea what gonna be moved via get that. And, it's of, lot of these help' em load' em so we were a our had they they would was air coming frame, really paperwork, it's online. And so, it's a-it's put the information in and then they would either accept it on what kind of information-so clarify these couple things," whether it was like if they're gonna need blood or if they're, ya know, enough to move them-' cause depending on where know how bad it was-if we could stabilize' em it they'd send it back and be medications if they would was or even specifics of, be stabilized and how-a lot of things, you enough to move' em. So my job was put all their medical information in there and then-and do exactly what they wanted 12 or to to 1 March 2012 Janine Smith get them they'd out. And so, immediately if that's what in fifteen minutes off. come they needed, or some They would start surgery kind of stabilization care, and they were bad enough-life, liver, eyesight-and they would be out within, hour and or a sure sometimes it took ten nurse, and he so was or there to paperwork, all the medical longer. So, it was do, like, the clinical aspect and the logistical was this MM: And the doctors Army. And JS: different, our Just, urn was the were hard for them at first because we're ... well, different? Can you it's the 'cause some sharing was they go to ghettoes women women I just some girls The on you breed, a different a little bit more? our rules people, middle upper class. So it of the other ones, for a year. setting. were It six love the military, and so, And so, it's they were a was a was shock to very me to come see how strange. And you're people in my tent, a scary. higher education and They were there had just had babies and left their infants for thought-I communicating. that I work with have mean, it's-there officers, which is quality of people in the Army, especially to recruit these acted and behaved in that pretty small space. I twelve in those me. a of, appropriately and speak enlisted don't talk to medical, because lives depend predominantly white, of these explain that separation of, like, I'm not used to that. Most of the from Utah, care Army? less, but there's still those barriers. enlisted, there to make interesting- language kind of different in little bit an just myself was was sometimes our- MM: How's the JS: it I kind of stuff was taken administrative. And I would teach the doctors how to word it Air Force. So it And it interesting. then, if for a year. That and there year. Some of was really hard for and I've been in it for thirteen years, but I could 13 J anine Smith never isn't 1 March 2012 imagine doing that. good at That service before self stuff. I noise and the JS: So I were was at a There are beautiful parts, but we were not in a beautiful part. Dwyer for two and then I went to Bastion for two. you-I mean, obviously going into vacation or something-but had a war zone's you been out of the completely country before? Had experience with- you had any JS : We do little bit about the environment of Dwyer and just the a there for four months MM: Was that-had different than out there. dirt, dust and filth, just the hardship of being there. just Afghanistan. MM: You 'Cause if your stuff home, if you don't have your shit together, it's really hard to be MM: You mentioned before JS: It's disagree. global health MM: So you have some here, so yes. experience with­ JS: Third world countries. MM: Third world poverty. Where had you been JS: To that? Ghana, Burkina Faso, and Mali, and Timbuktu, which was really cool. Urn, Peru. We do Lima and, MM: Ok, relation to JS: prior to a lot of health education in Peru. So those are mostly the countries. So urn, Cuzco. I wanna come back to that, actually, in a little bit, but where is Bastion in Dwyer. Camp Leatherneck any stops [laughs] province, but it's a so but that lot it's about never bigger. a twenty minute helicopter flight, if you don't have happens. It's much separated by-' cause the British, So it's about larger. Bastion is a Not as an big hour. It's still in the southern as like Kandahar. And it British term, and it 14 was a British was hospital. 1 March 2012 Janine Smith So, urn, we were teaching them how to use our airplanes. doing my job, they were the liaison the whole time because it isn't war really struggled. We've been there eleven years. And wasn't what we MM: So how so so you described earlier with ones I was on were on camp, can And there It's difficult imagine, sort of privacy come but us. in just a And so I was different-so ten in you're-it's never private. the multi cam, and then came I to spent the most time at was comparison to what But this in they, everybody else, they really small footprint in that basically like hard structure room, in bunk beds. It a bunch of British after hat, the maroon was­ women are. a and some while, they really-they Like their uniforms are very colorful feathers. belts with a They huge shiny buckle. So my best friend there, my the British liaison. So if we did get Brits to make sure really cool, like, really joint 15 a same reason. than we was was arrogant and-but the would put sheets up and try to create out of their Dwyer, a were tent with they have these, like, Camp Dwyer, then her job needed to go. So it which people a we They're very-they're much more traditional who actually has [Peps ?], probably eight to are, urn, kinda separate from was to love you, 'cause we're all there for the buddy who British troops in They think that we different, they have the feathers coming wear idea that their chain of command interesting. they lived living. it's they and Dwyer? so was they're kindajoining late, ya know. We've been there for ten, almost forever, their camp were-because it Leatherneck, and tight. if you the water. So the Air Force side. And the Air Force buildings. it's was Urn, they didn't really like JS: on experience working with the the was that Navy was actually there, which is funny' cause they haven't been in the they really struggled with the used, And the that they got where they service effort to make sure that Janine Smith 1 March 2012 we're all-we were all ok. And the Gatorade and jerky. And wall is? It's like much that or Cup we four or were by four box, just random those full of just like-and food, just candy villages and and just shit. drop Like, we had a tri so it off. Some of 'em had socks from? coming I don't even know who-churches and different then, they would have numbers they would write thank you notes to 'em and full of just junk they loved stuff. America, mostly. Like, these, organizations, but it was come, would get-no shit-like tri walls. Do you know what would just go off to these of Noodle MM: Where JS: a we Brits, whenever they would crap food send pictures. But it on them and was like, we we had could a tent [laughs]. MM: It's just like bein' at home. JS: On deployment you either really-'cause, it's just question-but, the British rooms interesting. So, raised, you lose I guess. So it they was a same see. And really, reason, but weight. Yeah, urn, the British base-I full of sugary, Americanized shit. And "We're all here for the and or base, they would make for real, because that's what we're gain weight a they really have cultural have totally got just this off of your comments about-there would be just we are we so, it's a a bad idea of how we are arrogant, ya know, but that's how awareness thing, just to be, like, very different idea of our standards living." MM: Were you dealing predominantly with British troops coming in for medical JS: We MM: were Oh, k, treatment? dealing with-they wanted to so there there was a total deal with theirs. separation. 16 as far as the people J anine Smith JS: Even ours. 1 March 2012 though we used their facilities and we worked with them, And I think just' cause the naval laws and stuff. And I that. Just the bureaucracy we mostly moved really got never involved in alone. MM: Sure. Urn, did you have any kind of dealings at all with the Afghani people at either location? JS: They're everywhere. over there. So there's knows what we were no On base. environmental, exposed to going through the garbage, whatever, out of. Philippines and all our over. over I guess They-all laundry-we'd drop Urn, like, there's of the big a fire EPA laws. I mean, there. It's just pit they bum everything we burned bad. But so everything. they would have they do all the people who do, like, laundry off-were the service kinda jobs, like all third party nationals. So, But, like, the Afghanis that worked pumping, like, at mean wouldn't tomorrow, it back. So come bad guys, 'cause means they really did live we bays-we had one bay-two, three, beds. And it's literally like village, from treaty and or for today, they were getting paid really well we had a just kept lot a it, more locals than for we in a villagers there, whatever. 17 because had they our [cholla ?] guys. And we sometimes service kinda so one bays where-just the long. they were considered the and do our tent. And or so we tomorrow. And tomorrow come four-we had four hospital but it's all the to our Camp Dwyer-' cause the tomorrow that I get to it. And stuff. And so, urn, the you do or like, from the the sewage stuff. So I learned the term, time, which means, like, you'll do it whenever doesn't them just to pull anything that they could make bombs, were-they were building hardened structures, because we've been there And Who for there called the prisoners of the one of war that are bay just we had, or Janine Smith MM: So, 1 March 2012 I mean, you said that sometimes people would they just didn't come back, insinuating that after them. come JS: Yeah. MM: Did you you ever end up MM: for come back, they were­ Yeah, they were dead. dead. Urn, They were had bum season, but, like they would-they would, locals would come-they basically-and I don't know Somebody told me it was purification. boiling water. a people that had been working treat any of the guys? JS: No. If they didn't JS: having to And so was almost like 'em three meals a dunno. As many women. day. the chances of survival they were trying to get in It was like dip their-be had men, but it was are do this. dipped in And when you live in very slim. There and get care, 'cause like vacation for them women as we kinda, we were a ya know. We had very clear how lot would feed a lot of... I they treat their Like, they-it was hard. And they have this rule where, um-I think it's more spiritual-that you have to bury them before midnight of the day that they die. oflike a So had this guy we they would they would have seventy five percent bums. filthy environment like that, of-so it But why this-why they would there, but I had here's this come never body, out, and who knows where thought what are about the like-just make name was sure it of just you gonna do with it?" And Afghani, but most of' em were-had would talk to-her logistics they got was a car or so the translators a were long time. So, [J amilia ?]-and I would talk to her was they even got handing over a body. Like, "Ok, lived in America for ok. And she how every all urn ... they-I night and just be very interested and very invested. And so, 18 J anine Smith they have to 1 March 2012 clean the body and do certain, she's Muslim. And 1 don't know cared for these people. And it enough was JS: She so was for their religion­ for her. And she and some medical was a older, she lot problems to, really was herself. Afghani? Afghani but was things, about it to talk educated about it. But she really hard probably in her late fifties, early sixties, MM: She kind a ritualistic she lives in Virginia, so interesting combination of things. And she would- MM: She wasn't JS: No, she military though, was a she was- contracted civilian. Yeah. All the the difference between-' cause some of' em interpreters were-came interpreters-the difference between the ones were. from Dubai, So you was tell of the some who had lived in America and the who hadn't. It's just this-and the pay difference can ones like, in the thousands. MM: Wow. JS: Yeah. So that was the difference of pay, shifts, six, happening. seven doing the days a you'd just sleep me. So to have same one from Dubai and exact job. And it's week, for them. For me, it So there would be And MM: really hard days where we were when you could. But, was one hardcore, whenever up for thirty not, and then know like twelve hour something was six hours it's-sleeping over there's or whatever. hard anyway, for going back to-I really have gotten off subject. Oh, it's all great information. JS: Just, urn, some really advanced of the cancer. then this guy got a car things And she and he that you see. was one of the first came to make Like, there sure 19 ones was one woman who had that 1 knew that had died. And that he could have the body, so they 1 March 2012 Janine Smith could do their traditional thing. them to had 'Cause care. she had bums on her we And she must have been girl one face, and she who was in was higher up our care in the caste system for for months and probably twelve, maybe. plastic doctors, if they don't have people-they're poor-so they do care afford that female probably-beyond what you would expect them to they couldn't marry her off. they just left her in They're very utilitarian. And I used to Like, how the I could never they live. do it I mean, ditch to myself. on think, "That's just But the way that they've been primarily. They were their culture was take the poison their waterholes. women's rights And away, 'cause since we've been very women at because it's do. So, because she just common. wrong." And it is they are utilitarian makes urn, peaceful. they took out they're the value to them. forever. And so, I did a-I read war And the first who wrong. sense a for lot about pomegranate orchards. They were thing they did or all of their orchards ones was a business to tear down owning basically. So, usually build up and take the . their culture. So there-we, meaning joint force military-we have built schools. to music now, which on so out of any kind of education There's radio stations where these stuff you hear they could never that their way out. And that's history of Afghanistan. They used to have, Buddhist the die, all surgery. These They couldn't-she was no-of no And so, a they did, like, And these-all this treatment to make her face look normal, kinda months, and women can learn other they couldn't before. Like, we're languages. So, they doing things. news was over And it's really hard. there-'cause you would know location, and then you'd see what they have on 20 So what somebody who the news, and then listen But that's not the the news, not at all. So I can't-I cannot listen to the maybe twenty percent true. can was news anymore, they would actually do if at that you'd be like, "That Janine Smith was a a 1 March 2012 wedding. It wasn't a riot, it was a they would make it look like celebration." And riot, just to-for political-it's like, have you ever seen that movie Wag the Dog? MM: Yes. JS: That's how I feel. That's how our country is I feel like that is­ ran. MM: So do you feel like-what is the media's role in that JS: I don't know what just a good story. was, it wasn't let' em in. can't come in. They are there. I don't know. I don't know what everybody afraid of stuff that doesn't stories that don't think I reporters-I apparent that that's what he They are actually true. Fear you think? out of it. I don't know ifit's to-for they're getting 'Cause the then, do was doing. reporter saw a And we still-we still follow they're gaining. even exist, to some on this, ahead, but on. There's that stuff? They're-I have did, like, dining in kinda thing, was a just something that a-we had Marine a great general. officer. We had then you lost He was an some so of back door no and it was a have, like, it's kind grade so we our you meet out degree. I'm sure there's some officers did at invited, urn, more they have Camp four star come 21 ofthe-we Leatherneck. We got general, fun. And things. There's to all invited the Brits. And it and he to sit at the main thing but it's access one which you would expect from relaxed rules that you have to follow and just strange a so we then, and US Taliban? government... Like, service higher up British folks of a don't they're just making dealing with the joint amazing speaker, of the ifhe Because way it couldn't. How could much faith in the company turnout. And or tactics, basically [laughs]. military and the US government kind totally goes or usually don't-we MM: What do you think about the claims of kind a the Taliban resurgence JS: Oh it politics like a so a was a general table. And there's all these grog bowl where you J anine Smith just throw a 1 March 2012 bunch of crap in it, if you don't follow what they were. Like, if somebody you'd have one there, usually they have of the rules. And caught you not doing it, toilet and you have to drink out of they're silly rules. glass you had to tap your a on I can't even remember the table twice before you drank. So then you would have to go to the grog bowl. And to do basic movements. And it was really funny, 'cause the British are very different, and they're almost comical. They're very jolly most of' em. Like, extremely jolly compared to . the things that we'll told us that you're seeing the worst ofthe was one JS: was general was for looked at the term Egocentric. JS: It was a And, where yeah, I trained was said, see, and worst. But we are some "I know that this is awful. I know doing good things." at that same And so time, Obama had, that urn, fired popular magazine. nothing he said in there was horrible. But he-and that, the Afghani population looked Not eccentric, but, urn, high that, yeah. Egotistic or like, at that on you are so the very ... what yourself. whatever. And they look at him like dunno, it was just this really strange, like, putting things into perspective, eye And then there's all this controversy about, "Is he Muslim?" opening to just like, "They're all American. The Dubai. And term similar to they stand. it talking to they used? MM: that. get to Rolling Stone. Rolling Stone. Afghani never great thing that I heard from them. And the NATO MM: It Anyway, the general talked to all of us and kind of what we're used to. bad." see how And, I they receive us. see most of the And it's hard 'cause people gentleman that just walked by, Mohamed, And, totally different. He's a trained is in our Iraqi, you're department are not and his wife is from doctor, like, amazing. 22 And, So it's hard to be, 1 March 2012 Janine Smith like, "You're the bad guy, but cousin who was can't grocery was like a in the shop Army, who has for himself. So he Christmas party, which cousin-his name's baby. you're my friend." Like, it was And he's was PTSD, like to the-so bad that he down, and Mohamed came Wesley-met him really hard for him to and his wife and, ya even was at as a person." It was a party where it be at, and he-my know, him and his like, "You're the first Iraqi that didn't wanna kill me." strange, like, "I love you just this neat, like, It was cute little this very we're all here for the [cries]. same reason MM: This is a bit of a tangent, but should mention we're at the JS: Because we MM: Do you do you think that is with this department? I public health department for the University of Utah. we go- actively recruit internationally then? Uganda, China, and I went to why do global health. Like, JS: I don't know if just and we Ghana, we're-just because do... So it's Organization. And, so we do travel, we are in Ghana, Peru, community based participatory research. I guess it was, oh Management of Childhood Illness. um, very horrible very strange. And my eight. And so So it's called we're funded So we go, IMCI, Integrated by the World Health there's five different components that include health education, nutrition, agriculture. So, basically we're assisting them in building their community, so, schools, latrines. And we're setting up, like, universities there. So, KNUST in Ghana is Technology. one So we're of the-the Kwame Nkrumah setting up medical classes that have been done. And a in there and ask them how we can lot of growth and help them. 23 University of Science there. And there's so and many cool things progression. But everything is-we'll And then just do all these different we go 1 March 2012 J anine Smith things. ya know. So, the project that I worked GIS to map where schistosomiasis where they lived, had to agree. But MM: I was. And then we when So we we were mapped there was all of the offered them solutions. But they had to-it was actually-this technologies have access on which is awesome, the-we is another to any kind of interesting using they had to see where do it. And they very much their idea. military question since GIS and directly out of the military, come were people who had it, and all the water sources, and then overlaid those maps to problems were. our mortality rate has decreased, So it's very cool. And the infant technologicaL. some of the other did you get to use-did you have It sounds like where you were was pretty basic. JS: Very basic. Very, you a bigger target, Convention as very I guess [laughs]. non-combatants, and the badge we don't have to are all kind of written for wear a MM: So did the facilities JS: Not where we were, MM: 'Cause I can't There primitive. are people who were, but that just makes And we're medical so even though we we're under the Geneva so did have to carry guns with us, anymore like the Red Cross or anything. But those laws different time. see no. imagine any fire There the despite those­ was- insurgents really care about the Geneva Convention [laughs]. JS: No. We didn't get mortared like did, that would've been and they have a a lot harder. But lot of technology to mean, it's-there's some see of the other places they would've had the nothing comparable to surrounding areas. it here. Like it's 24 to did. Which, I think if we get through three barriers, And they had posts. such-you're always on I 1 March 2012 Janine Smith this-you make yourselfbelieve that you're safe, ya through the day. run But you maybe, like, eight to whatever, and these you things-there was a more those are out like they fill as wire, would we around, depending far a as you can see. on which route you took And there's-whoever And it was are JS: No I they put drop supplies actually made it off or other people. they were trained January oflast So, and then MM: And that's what I JS: And surrounding I mean, it's this communities? basically it's you have to was stay on bed for like two weeks. I don't back. I just think, "I'm came they ask you about is your debrief? productive." even wanna tough. that back to the States, week, and it's seriously like-you're "Go be sure base for your debrief. like, numb from just everything. And then, checklist, and they're like, to make would year then? going to like two was we I left and went to another location and trained it-did you have-when you finished up and which would've been JS: Yeah. out into any of the whatever, but I stayed mostly-my job trained. And when was you have got off the aircraft. We stopped-we did touch downs where were MM: So kind of sandbags, the-instead of using so or designed some about four feet thick. And was [laughs]. never never just get the border of Dwyer, which walls, and that's kind of your barrier from the outside [laughs]. MM: So you come 'cause you have to mesh wire square, and then it with sand and those appropriate way. crazy, "That's it" so, 'cause thirteen miles can see cardboard and then this know, know, I can you have And do this. I'm 25 tired and "I just wanted to stay in people." [crying] a you're this-you're handed this you're like, look at you so It was hard to badass." And you're not. You 1 March 2012 Janine Smith just realize how insignificant get you out of bed?" All those guys that even some My husband made made it. over me get prosthetics do now, men are back and a off too. And so military willing to legs and but basically, skiing up a penis. that, you're the manhood away from that entire that. But, the article like, I'm hard. It's hard to just be like getting back into my PhD. Like, value. And I know what we do here is ... care nothing. And weird rules we we Like, I see have all this have to do and understand what that in Utah 'cause we was means. magazine like, they'll pay these African have the way it point. so people, they so how much for was written they're taking never clothes and It's hard to still have arrogant are they so we've-we're to think that our happy. They have we're miserable. We have all these to-like, when we mostly so wearing nice say we're Like, how much pressure to be this have this-I think but feminine. And I just, I really amazing. Like, shit, just garbage, and we about we're about your along the lines of, are so what's the helping countries improve their quality oflife. But, It's not. "Awesome. affected. And I just-I'd getting men who saw have this wonderful so we generation that was showering right. skier. We thought, producing testosterone, not was way is huge there. And I just And it was, don't know. It same a getting your legs blown off, you're getting pay for even they don't even have legs if they they won't pay for reproductive anything. So, thought about it like should I they didn't really have, like, ballistic underwear, if you don't have and day I think, "Why ski pass, and I'm not they're starting to incorporate that. So, much is the that every coming home without legs, program. But if you're genitals blown like, after that." Then I read this article in the Men's Health how these young was came of those guys, the double amputees Life's not arms And are. or busy here, they don't that. And especially 'cause of the LDS culture-we have the 26 1 March 2012 Janine Smith highest rate of surgical augmentations, antidepressant use, teenage pregnancy, homosexual suicide. We have and lot of problems here. But, it's My older brother is-he did MM: working with Maoris he's And in Alaska in like the bush a summer down in New Zealand. He's things. weird getting off the plane because everybody here he-every time he sickening. Like, really, eighteen year old. they did after I know three you do that? It's Like, the people that, like, It is beautiful. It's credits. if you incredible. So we And then us we have we sure or can was strange." like, "You are do and we the first thing beautiful. You don't need just the accepted behavior. Why do even wanna go into Peru to teach-and we we need all usually teach public health-but it's provide the physicians CMEs, a medical education imagine how many lives have been lost because of that, go down there our we we have, public health people. do, like, is how much doctor so And, they still have that very separated culture that if you don't talk to the doctor directly. So, nurses, we one parents who bought boobs for their the health educators-I teach the health educators 'cause I'm trauma conference that And doing epidemiology as really super religious people that that was I know they stopped having kids. Why would that." that? Why? comes villages. back to Salt Lake he just comments, "It's of the JS: It's clean, it's conservative, twilight zone of just weird behavior [laughs]. It's like this everyone's pretty. now a a know, we And there's have was this they learned something Like, how we our usually humanitarian component. And the love each other. not. And it ya doctors, we it's have about fifteen of us that go. biggest thing they learn treat each other, whether we're really hard transition for them to notice. So, I mean, from our PowerPoints 27 or our whatever, but, what it comes from a I'm down Janine Smith 1 March 2012 to is the journey. And so, I guess that's ya why I still put PhD nonsense, know, like, what's the point really? MM: So with what you said before about, kind of, helping to rehab soldiers and the treatment of soldiers, I'm curious what your take is relieved to see about what's who's in being charge. know, just closed, and new Walter Reed JS: I mean, you done? You commented can And how facilities good of you. But the there give are can care [crying] I have go that we're gonna give pro grams that work. But yellow ribbon program. a a Which is they go to go there. What is that doing to out. How do you feel know, it kinda depends running the program are on I don't ... living with that. culture promotes and go be a that, "Oh you're victim. And we'll take you isn't gonna be very a I'm not good [laughs]. care We little bit." So, I dunno. I think they have these, like, especially for the reserves, they ... what can are our go and meet other they doing? really fancy, for are You hard time our program? Absolutely not. ton. A ton. And you somewhat little bit. just give you have these kind of boondoggles where you Oh, coming were cousin, he qualifies for full disability but play this victim role, you the best of the best. We'll effectiveness of that a your officers who disabled. And he just won't accept that. But won't it on the stories that I know are-like my disabled. Now you on-like, always improve anything I think. he's like, "I'm not disabled." a myself through this Have people. they ever How much money do nice places guys? Nothing. a damn evaluated the they spend and just-and Not And it's for the on it? they pay for you thing. It gives them weekend away with their family. Big deal. They're still broken. So, I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. 28 1 March 2012 Janine Smith organizations here in Utah that you think MM: Do you know if there's-are there any are doing good work? Doing something JS: I don't really know. actually did-I did I mean only, like, MM: find actually-who idea. But Military JS: Yeah. they'll you up, no somebody who administers they're always They're always at our 'em a lot. They gave out, you go to life skills that they're starting to urn, they're not labeled they'll at you have to do was this, like, six probably the most helpful thing your fish while out you're deployed, likes fish and will take your fish in. And so, our they paid for counseling you're gonna Like, "Well, sessions for they're not military, ... was one it of the most me when I first got out or stigma if whatever. But we can do Navy? Maybe it was the Navy. They're And it's more like moral I'm gonna go have lunch at this people. But go work out with them they'll make appointments but it's 29 I a-I've been important things they'll just be like-they'll so pre-deployment. 'cause there's that get, you'll be, like, kicked like, the Army that. And so, our swag, like magnets and whatever. But psychologists with the troops. as conferences, or-it's-but, like, I have know, ya go have lunch with them. And informal way. program. I that, who is behind that? realize that mental health is troops. And starting to put, a at- briefings, home. And you just call them up. And our do is go find OneSource? they're pretty awesome. for of? aware OneSource I would say is the most effective don't know. I don't know where it's funded exposed to so Like, if you need somebody to watch there for veterans. JS: I have And twelve hours. And that thing. My husband also-Military MM: Could you you're thing I wanted to the last hospice training for veterans. a week course, and it's they will fix effective that in a or very time," and then he said, like, Janine Smith three or they'll 1 March 2012 four of the guys will go work out and then effective tool that guys we gettin' don't they've they'll just talk [crying] when you are, you're like, "Shit. How can doing are a Or and that's been the most lot. a Like, you're seeing really good your that shit easy. Like, I mean, over this be ok? How lotta week, whatever. can exposed to that. So life just go on?" work around here though. you're currently working on, what you coming up? JS: Urn, I haven't decided. I over every anymore, we're just not What do you have-can you talk at all about what have things You don't get slaughter our own animals MM: It sounds like you guys about for the guys, 'cause there's seen shot at, blown up. even they do it, like, and then come traveling so much. I don't behavioral stuffhere, with pet peeves. I think that administer care. was countries are mean, you travel our doctors are sanitation in Peru, but I'm kinda much. So I think I'm gonna medicine is another we and Africa. 'Cause I feel like are, and we're so jacked up. It's people, they are-they live in thesemud huts happiest people in the world. And I'm sure one urn, like of my expensively trained pharmacists. incorporate preventative medicine in medical be what do, practice medicine not actually very are personalized medicine here these as trained to They are trained-they aiming to see wanna on personalized medicine. Urn, so, I'd like to do curriculum to evaluate other gonna do-work that kids a really and And care or lot ofthese sad. [crying] they're the never even seen a doctor, maybe a shaman. MM: Did you-so in interacting with the difference there in terms of-and were British medical there positives 30 staff, I mean, in what you saw was them there a big practicing? I 1 March 2012 J anine Smith JS: I only saw the trauma bay where we held primitive looking. a I would say it's pretty to par with what different way of going about it. So about the queen, and our president that. The power that the UK, differently, here, because We're MM: So did JS: Oh a overrun they have see so how much So equipment is standards I mean, are but they have they really cared really hard' cause we we look at don't have any power over like-so, people, like, in France and going on, so so their it's government's afraid of different-they just act her, because she respects them. So, a different way than like barbecues and beer. It's just different. come up when you were interacting with them? yeah. a couple people who, Afghani people, seemed like Iraqi people, or they were they wanted he just started said, "Yes, ok, differently. or urn, mentioned the Obama Muslim everywhere they went the constant all convinced that to claim that for and question was, thing before anytime they dealt is Obama he-they wanted-to some actually a degree it themselves, that was important to them. And saying, "Oh, yeah, probably." Rather than having the argument, just he is." Maybe that would make stores by fear. like, their they care. Like, they're patriotic in lot of those stereotypes Muslim? 'Cause JS: are, much respect for and talked to several vets who said that so our lot. And it's we if they don't like what's patriotic' cause we MM: I talked to with a we're afraid of our government. And it's strange to just we are. have is ... they're just different. separate entity of who we they just write them. Over ... they would mention her very as a guys. Urn our And then whatever, ... and it's 'em like us more or whatever. But I mean, they see us so weird, like, when-at Bastion they would have these little they would sell these rugs, like Persian rugs you could get, and 31 J anine Smith 1 March 2012 jewelry, like, black diamonds mean, you just back in the way they swept what . and their all the culture out. So identity, Yeah, peacefulness. But, they haven't had and their-they have MM: No JS: think, where is this coming from? day, they live, even no a with the influences that have culture like the they're-they have I they're known for their beauty But connection to their culture cultural I mean, it's if you don't buy for nothing. Crazy big gems. Like, really. you could Taliban, or an changed the anti-culture, like, years of people that have no idea . identity. hard, for young men, know where you come especially, like, from or what are patriotic about you what you stand for, who you're connected to. MM: I guess that almost kind a ties into "wining the hearts there's no JS: So, have cultural like, one and the, minds," that tactic. was a lieutenant colonel in the people. So, they should grow a ever our back, the bad guys. whatever and they're staying with them. And and, like, offer them money to grow to go ya kinda banner for that. there, the, was urn, production of opiates we would go and going and doing our 32 as Afghani place they'd our come the natives convince them-it instead of opiates. he rounds and then and then They're living with these people, they're living they're trying to So particular gentleman, know, they would leave com happen. to go and convince these instead of opiates. So then, military slogan, know. We just allow it to instead of having camps and then just camp, where as a lot of them-but, this going back to job hold up over Army, and his job com the whole US Or how do you win the hearts and minds if of the-so since we've been guy's job-there's probably families that know, identity and there's nothing to quadrupled, probably more than we'll one-this ya or was his Janine Smith 1 March 2012 MM: Just like a one time, lump sum? they, JS: Mmm, that wasn't clear. But, [laughs] [laughs]. that's what you're hundred dollars a year. know, if you're threatened death gonna do. We're probably is, And money ya Like, starving, even imagine? becoming really close to journal they that colonel who with them. So they're staying these families. And I've seen, send out like every other month promised this young was a general like, with them and girl that he would bring her boots project And, after her. particular village where this who knows ifhe's still there, then does that encourage the whole, like, "Give make it myself and have MM: Aid JS: Yeah, that's what versus MM: time, we still ( we Well, we can up that show you was a this lieutenant something. And pretty high up, I brought clothes And and they named the bringing stuff, but "I welfare have to build it and recipient." efficacy, that I mean, not in self-efficacy so how, if you want us to. public health, that you can do it If not, then we'll just have [laughs]. I think that's Janine. I this," and not, struggle with that idea. Even, do, is just build and go or girl was. ifhe's still kind of pride in it. No, I'm was infrastructure. so, I think yourself. And, some tea some me or one they're urn, in the little Air Force officer-went and lived there. And he just education and stuff to this four I mean, that's like my gas he did. And him and his wife went and-after he retired-and he think he have money family makes whatever, there or opiates they're starting-they're bill. I dunno. So, there's-to win the hearts and minds changing the way that they deal we like-I mean, I think the average shit. Can you no but at least or probably really appreciate a good place to stop. it. 33 Thank you so much for your Janine Smith 1 March 2012 END OF INTERVIEW 34